How a Father-Daughter Mortgage Team Built a Referral Machine with Bill & Victoria Clayton

Can old-school relationship building still outperform modern lead generation and AI-driven sales?

In this episode of The Way with Dino Katsiametis, Dino sits down with father-daughter mortgage team Bill Clayton and Victoria Clayton to break down the real strategies behind building a sustainable referral-based mortgage business. 

With over 30 years in the mortgage industry, Bill shares timeless principles around trust, financial planning, and client retention, while Victoria explains how she built a thriving business in just a few short years through relationships, consistency, open houses, and social media networking.

This conversation dives deep into:

•  Why referrals still outperform paid leads 
•  The power of face-to-face and Zoom consultations 
•  How younger loan officers can earn trust quickly 
•  And why the future belongs to mortgage advisors—not just loan officers 

👉 If you want to build a long-term mortgage business without relying on cold leads and rate shopping, this episode is packed with practical strategies you can implement immediately.

🔑 Key Takeaways & Bullet Points

• Why relationship-based business models still outperform lead buying
 • How Victoria built a 6–8 unit/month business in only 3 years
 • The strategy behind partnering with newer real estate agents
 • Why open houses are still massively underrated for relationship building
 • The importance of transparency when you’re newer in the business
 • How to create trust quickly with referral partners and clients
 • Why face-to-face meetings dramatically increase conversion rates
 • The difference between a “loan officer” and a true “mortgage advisor”
 • How Bill uses financial planning conversations to deepen client relationships
 • Why most mortgage professionals fail at long-term follow-up
 • The “calendar stacking” system for maintaining client relationships
 • How to build a repeat-and-referral business over time
 • Why human connection still matters more than technology
 • How to blend old-school relationship building with modern marketing tools
 • The mindset shift required to create version 2.0 and 3.0 of yourself

Thanks for listening to "The Way With Dino Katsiametis"  
 For full show notes, links, and extra episode resources, visit dinokatsiametis.com.
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instagram.com/dinokatsiametis | linkedin.com/in/dinokatsiametis
Learn more about Ethos Lending at ethoslending.com.  

Transcript

Dino Bill & Victoria Raw

Dino Bill & Victoria Raw: [00:00:00] Hey, Bill. Hey, Victoria. Thanks for joining me.

Bill & Victoria Raw: Hey, Dino Absolutely. Thanks for having us.

Dino Bill & Victoria Raw: So I've been trying to figure out what I'm gonna call this show, and I have to... I, I don't know what it is yet, but I have to know somehow, some way, we're gonna put the word redneck into it. And,

Bill & Victoria Raw: All they gotta do is listen to it, and they'll know that.

Dino Bill & Victoria Raw: That's right. And, and, uh, for all you guys watching right now, Victoria is his daughter, so he's not that redneck, okay?

That's not his wife. Uh, so guys, thank you. Uh, seriously, uh, appreciate it. And, and for a couple of rednecks, you guys are completely awesome, and I love you guys more than you know. Uh, you know, I'm gonna, I'm gonna go ahead and talk about this here for a second 'cause yesterday, uh, Bill and I received some, some bad news about a very dear friend of ours, um, who passed away, uh, Brent Wilson, [00:01:00] and it got me thinking about all the people in my life and the people I care about and the experiences that I've had over the years and, and what's important and what's not.

And, and, you know, we all were in a group together, a mastermind group, uh, through Todd Duncan's elite program, and that's how we became friends. And over the years, we've become, I, I believe, really great friends that would do anything for each other. And, um, so, you know, for our, our friend that passed, we love you, and, you know, we wish you and, uh, wish you well in the afterlife, and we wish your, your wife and kids just the absolute best right now.

Um, but here we are. Um, I have a bunch of redneck jokes that I'm gonna throw out when appropriate, but in the beginning, I want you guys to, to just give us a who are you both personally and professionally.

Bill & Victoria Raw: You wanna go first? You can go. All right. [00:02:00] So, um, I'll start with the profe- uh, the personal stuff. Um, I'm Bill Clayton. Uh, and, um, uh, my wife and I have been together now 25 years, or soon to be anyway. She's been demanding a, a great trip, and so hopefully we can figure that out. But, uh, we have two girls, uh, of course Victoria, and our youngest Sam, short for Samantha.

And yeah, we got to know Dino through, um, uh, a- and Lindsay and lots of other people through Elite, and that was fun. Uh, I think the biggest thing for me that was fun about that is we all did it together, and we would bring our families and our kids, and that was just, that was just something really special.

Um, as far as professional, I've been doing this a really, really long time. Uh, uh, roughly 30 years, depending on how you look at it. Uh, started part-time technically in, I think '93. And, uh, I was Uh, [00:03:00] basically my, my, I grew up in the industry. My parents, uh, have always been in the business and frankly, they still own an office across town.

Um, and so when I went to college at that point, I was dead set I was gonna be a mechanical engineer. I loved numbers, I was good at numbers, and engineering, that was my thing. Well, senior year, I decided, you know what? I like mortgage better. Uh, the whole time I'd been processing all along, and, and I liked it.

So I went full-time mortgage in roughly '97, and then, uh, the opportunity came for me to open an office with my parents in '99, which I did in Dothan, Alabama. Hired some staff there to run that, came back home, opened my first office here in Columbus, and been running it ever since.

Dino Bill & Victoria Raw: third generation. And Victoria, you've been in the [00:04:00] business for how long?

Bill & Victoria Raw: It'll be six years in July.

Dino Bill & Victoria Raw: And how long have you actually been doing loans?

Bill & Victoria Raw: Three.

Dino Bill & Victoria Raw: Three. So the first three were loan officer assistant?

Bill & Victoria Raw: Yeah, I started assisting Dad, um, really learning from the ground up. We have an ongoing joke that I didn't know how to spell mortgage when I started working for Dad.

Dino Bill & Victoria Raw: Most people don't at start, just so you know.

Bill & Victoria Raw: It is kinda weird, isn't it? So yeah. Um, I graduated from Auburn in 2019. The goal was for me to go to vet school, so I was logging in, you know, all my, um, hours I needed to go to vet school.

Was working in Florida, and then COVID happened. Lost my job. Um, ended up back here at home. That was not the goal. Did not wanna really be here. Um, couldn't find a job, and Dad, the market was taking off, and he was like, "Well, come help me for a little bit. If you love it, you can stay. If you don't, then you, you can leave whenever you want."

Um, so I started from the ground up, and then [00:05:00] fast-forward and here I am.

Dino Bill & Victoria Raw: I know you're hard on yourself, but, but I'm gonna ask you, uh, what kind of volume do you do your third year in?

Bill & Victoria Raw: Um, I'm doing right about right under two million each month this, on track this year each month.

Dino Bill & Victoria Raw: And how many units is that?

Bill & Victoria Raw: It's about six to eight per month.

Dino Bill & Victoria Raw: So for all you guys listening right now that have been in this for a while and can't seem to put together two units a month, you, you might be needing to change the way you do a few things, because here's a three- third year in doing six to eight units. You're doing something right. Even though you think you should be doing more, you're on track.

You're doing great. And, and Bill, just for context so people know that, uh, rednecks, um, can, can do it too, what, uh, what kind of-- how many units do you average a month?

Bill & Victoria Raw: Uh, I'm usually around 10 or 12 units a month [00:06:00] Um, depending on when you do it. Sometimes more.

Dino Bill & Victoria Raw: And I know you're mostly VA. Uh, Victoria, are you mostly conventional or are you VA as well?

Bill & Victoria Raw: And I'm-- It's mostly VA and then FHA.

Dino Bill & Victoria Raw: and then FHA. Okay. And I'm, I'm assuming your, your area is very VA-heavy?

Bill & Victoria Raw: Yeah. Yeah. We're right here with Fort Benning, uh, so it's just naturally a lot of what we do.

Dino Bill & Victoria Raw: Okay. So guys, I want to-- I, I wanted you guys both to come on because, number one, I've really enjoyed talking with Victoria the last few times and just personally been amazed at the kind of volume she does even, you know, with just being in the business really for a short period of time. But also, I love the fact that she's so hard on herself and, and thinks that's not enough, even though that's more than what most people do.

So, so I love that part about you. And, and I just want [00:07:00] to Trying to figure out, you know, the, the, I guess, the path that you guys have taken, um, of how you get business. And, and then I wanna dive a little bit into how you manage the business, right? And then in the final piece, kind of the, um, how you, how you bring it all back, right?

The, the after piece. How you stay in touch with your clients, and how you have better retention, and how you get referrals. So if we just start with the first, the first part of it, where does the majority of your business come in from?

Bill & Victoria Raw: um, I probably have a handful of client referrals.

Dino Bill & Victoria Raw: And, and I would say that's a, a, a big success for me. Whenever I got a referral... Somebody asked me one time, when do I get my high? [00:08:00] And I thought about it, and it was when I get a referral. Not when the paycheck comes, because I just assume the paycheck's gonna come. I always like know I'm gonna close. But when I get a referral, I, I feel like I did a great job, and that's why I got a referral.

So that's when I got my high. And, and I, you know, I mean, there's, there's guys that are buying leads and doing all that stuff, but I'm telling you, there's nothing like the high of getting a referral, because somebody thought enough of you to do that. So, congrats. And then, you know, I'm gonna s- I'm, I'm gonna stick with Victoria for a minute before I head over to Bill. A lot of younger people, um, new in the business, let's call it, right? Forget age for a second. Feel like why would somebody trust them? They don't even know what they're talking about yet. And, and I even buy into that. A, a, a brand-new person, um, a realtor has to count on them for their commission to come through.

[00:09:00] And if you screw up, that's a big deal. So, how have you gotten past that, you know, piece of I'm, I'm young, I'm new, I... But yet you're getting people to trust you, 'cause you're getting 100% of your business from referral real- referrals from realtors. So, how do you get over that?

Bill & Victoria Raw: Well, when I first started, I was like, "What do I... Like, how do I go out and sell myself?" 'Cause I... It was a big confidence piece that I didn't really have, and I started selling, honestly, Dad and my team. So whatever I didn't know, I had a team and him that, you know, were always going to be there for whatever I didn't know.

But I was always say, you know, "I'm not sure." And being 100% transparent with people was a big piece. Um, like, "Hey, I'm not 100% sure on that, but let me refer to, um, you know, I work alongside my dad who's been in for 30-plus years, and I have a great team behind me. Um, let me find out for you." Me just being honest [00:10:00] was a big piece.

Um, and then I started just targeting, honestly, newer realtors that were in when I kind of joined. And then once I could sell them and show them how I could, you know, serve their clients and at 100%, then I started seeing who they knew so then they could vouch for me. Um, so then it was kind of building kind of my reputability and the trust that way, which was a big piece.

Dino Bill & Victoria Raw: have you been through any coaching or seminar type stuff, or have you just piggybacked off the hundreds of thousands of dollars your dad has spent on coaching?

Bill & Victoria Raw: Yeah. He takes me to the conferences that he goes to, so that's a big piece. Like, we were just at Growth Con even with you guys, um, in Chicago, so I get to piggyback off those.

Dino Bill & Victoria Raw: So Phil, let's talk about your daughter, uh, working next to you first of all. How incredible is that?

Bill & Victoria Raw: I mean, it's amazing. I, um, I, I, [00:11:00] I mean, she takes care of everything. She's really good at the things that I'm not. And, uh, so it's, um, it's a fun and, and kind of interesting dynamic, for sure.

Dino Bill & Victoria Raw: And, and how do you get your business?

Bill & Victoria Raw: 60% of the folks that I get to work with are typically either repeat clients or they are introduced to me by those that I've served before. Um, that's a... It's usually somewhere between 55 and 65%, depending on when you look at it. But yeah, on average around 60%.

Dino Bill & Victoria Raw: And would you say when you first started, the majority of your business came from realtors? Or how did you go out and, and get started?

Bill & Victoria Raw: Um, well, in Dosen it was realtors And when I came back here, it was, uh, primarily builders. Um, so it's been a little different over the years. And then over time, it's turned into now mainly referrals [00:12:00] from word of mouth.

Dino Bill & Victoria Raw: Yeah. And Victoria, if I go back to you for a minute, you know, again, newer in the industry. You talked about w- finding newer agents as well. I know a lot of people say stay away from them, go find agents that do business, and so on and so on. I- I have to say I actually have found tremendous success from newer agents as well, 'cause they're out there hustling.

Um, you know, they're n- they're not all gonna make it, but a portion of them will. And when I was younger it was great because we were doing it together, and then when I got just a little bit older but not too old, I could, I could actually be a mentor to them. And, you know, they didn't want to feel embarrassed going to somebody in their office when they didn't know.

And because I had no judgment, you know, and, and I was good at coaching them, I actually helped with a lot of younger agents and we grew, and they turned out to be some of my best agents. So I, I hate when people [00:13:00] say stay away from new agents, you know, stick with ones that, that are, are doing more volume.

First of all, they already have relationships and they have all this. I think it's a, a great opportunity to go in with younger agents and, and have this fresh blood. So question for you: how do you partner with them so that you can create a relationship? Uh, 'cause I know, you know, uh, uh, trust is a big thing.

Um, and just going to them and leaning on your dad is, is fine, right? Leaning on your team is fine, but there's gotta be something a little more than that that gets them to trust you, that creates a relationship that is built upon

Bill & Victoria Raw: Yeah. So I found most of them usually on social media, was the first thing that I was finding them on. Um, and then I was kind of old school and, uh, it's funny because, you know, we're in Chicago, they're like, you know, "Don't take people to coffee." And I was like, "Oh, that's what I did, is I took them to coffee."

Um, [00:14:00] and so I asked these realtors, you know, to go to coffee with me. I really didn't really ask anything about their business because I knew they were brand new. Um, and I really just got to know who they were. Um, so like, you know, who they family, where they were from, how they got in the business, what they were doing prior.

And then really after that, I'm really big on follow-up. Um, so I was hitting them probably about once a week saying, "Hey, you know, have you talked to any clients? Have you gotten any leads? What questions do you have?" Um, and just trying to help build that rapport, that I was just there as a resource. Um, any questions on loan types, anything like that.

And then if they had leads, I was offering to reach out to follow up with them to help them with that, because they were kind of drowning, you know, trying to figure out what was going on and which way was up. And I was like, "I can be that person that calls your leads for you to see if we can get them to convert."

Um, and just showing them that I was willing to do that and I really didn't have any, you know, stake in the game at that point. I was just [00:15:00] trying to prove myself. That really, like, they were like, "Victoria was always checking in on me, um, and always asking, you know, what I could do." And you know, any open houses, I did a lot of open houses.

I still do. I was doing two open houses every weekend. Um, but just showing up for them, that was a big thing. It was just building that relationship.

Dino Bill & Victoria Raw: open house with them or were you just hitting them up round and

Bill & Victoria Raw: in there with them. So I mean, open houses are hit or miss, right? So it's like sometimes people aren't gonna come, but I mean, if not, then it was two hours with me sitting with that agent, getting to know them more. And so it's, it's kind of a no-brainer.

Dino Bill & Victoria Raw: That's what I always used to say. It's like, I don't-- When I was doing them, it didn't even really matter to me if anybody came in. It was the two hours I got to spend one-on-one and connect with somebody. That's where I think the, the magic happened. So Bill, let me, I-- First, when was the last time you did an [00:16:00] open house?

Bill & Victoria Raw: Ah, I don't even remember. I don't know. She worked for a lot of them for me, so, uh, yeah, no. Um, I haven't done that. Yeah, that was a big thing, too. Like, he has some, like, more seasoned agents, and they do open houses, and I would be like, "Hey, I'll do them for him." So then it was just getting my name out there, because it was bigger agents with bigger presence, but posting that we would be at the open house, and so that also just helped put my name out there.

Dino Bill & Victoria Raw: Yeah, that's great. And then Bill, I always thought when I was doing loans, my process, right, the, the under contract process I, I tried so hard to do a good job during that period of time that that was my way of, number one, never losing a client, number two, getting referrals from clients. It was never, "I'm gonna wait till later to ask for a referral."

It was, I was gonna knock them off their feet with such an incredible experience that they were [00:17:00] gonna want to refer me right then and there. And, and, you know, you've been doing it for a while, and I know you, even as a, as a redneck, you, you're a big thinker, and you dissect little things a lot more than I ever thought you did.

Um, tell me about your process, right? Like, what knocks them off their feet and makes them enjoy working with you so much?

Bill & Victoria Raw: How much time we got?

Dino Bill & Victoria Raw: Give, give me the shorter version

Bill & Victoria Raw: all right. I-I'll stay st-to the point. Uh, for, so for me, it starts before they find the house. Uh, in an ideal setting, I meet with them, I, I find out what, what it is that they're actually wanting to accomplish. What, what's the goal behind the purchase? What's the goal behind the refinance?

And when I understand that, then I can pair with that, you know, a basic planning and mortgage to, to [00:18:00] make that goal a reality. And so when people see you actually pore over numbers... I love numbers. Uh, I think if you're true to numbers, you can use them to tell a story. And if, when people see you do that, they just...

I don't know. They, they, they know that I'm, I'm asking the questions and, and I'm, I'm approaching it from a, a curiosity standpoint, so they, they, they naturally just kind of start trusting you. And then from there it's, you know, the, as they find new houses that fit the, fit the bill, then they're bouncing them off of us.

We help them really, um, put together what is the offer and starting through the negotiations process. So really, the majority of what I do with people is frankly before they ever sign a contract, and then of course afterwards with, with follow-up. Once they're under contract, um, that's really where the team takes over.

Uh, my, uh, LP2 or production [00:19:00] partner, she goes through and tees it all up, gets the disclosures ready. I run through it with them and walk through all of the numbers as they're now specific to that house, date, closing, contract, et cetera, uh, and make sure that they're comfortable with everything, that all their questions are answered.

And then I schedule their next conversation with me is the closing disclosure Uh, we schedule that right up front, three days out from the expected closing date, so I can walk through that with them and make sure that there's no other unanswered questions, and then the close. The team handles pretty well everything else.

Dino Bill & Victoria Raw: me ask you this. In the, in the beginning process when you're working with them, what percentage of your clients-- 'cause you said the ideal scenario, right, that you meet with them. What percentage of your clients do you actually meet with?

Bill & Victoria Raw: Oh, I meet with all of

Dino Bill & Victoria Raw: of them. Do you really? Uh, I mean-

Bill & Victoria Raw: Yeah. Yeah, either face-to-face or on Zoom, I guess.

Dino Bill & Victoria Raw: Okay. And, and what percentage would, would you say is face-to-face versus [00:20:00] Zoom?

Bill & Victoria Raw: Three quarters?

Dino Bill & Victoria Raw: Wow.

Bill & Victoria Raw: Yeah, I was gonna

Dino Bill & Victoria Raw: uh, I mean, maybe if I tried harder it would be. I, I gave up on trying a long time ago because that would also postpone the meeting, um, trying to find a time that they could come in and all that. Maybe it's a little different in, in Georgia, but I, I love the idea of, I call it the new belly-to-belly, and that's the virtual, the Zoom, you know, conference.

'Cause you're still connecting with somebody, I believe a lot more so than you would over a phone call or even a worse email. And, and I think it's super important that no matter how deep we get into AI and, and technology in general, that we don't forget about the real power of this business, which is connecting with people.[00:21:00] 

And, and I don't think there's any better way to connect than 70% in-person, 30% virtual, right? Like, either one of those is gonna be significantly better than any other awesome technology that's out there. So, um, I'm glad you, you brought that up. I, I remember like years ago when I was younger, you know, you'd win some, you'd lose some.

But I remember one day looking back and, and I, I never lost a deal that I met with somebody in person. And when you think of the power of that, right? Like, I've never lost a deal when I met with somebody in person. So I, I would implore all of you guys listening right now, like make an effort to meet with them.

I don't care, you know, how difficult the schedule is or what- Maybe you don't have to postpone the first meeting for schedules to align if you're in an environment like in California. But, um, make an effort to meet them afterwards. And, and I [00:22:00] know before I stopped producing, I made a big effort to change mine from phone calls to virtual.

So I was, in a sense, still meeting with them all just in a different way, but that, that is the next belly-to-belly. So I think that's a, a really important piece. And, and let me ask you this question too. I'm just curious, I don't actually know the answer, um, even though I know you will. When, when you get a referral, can you walk me through what the, the process looks like?

Um, does somebody text message you? Does somebody email you? Does somebody just randomly call you and say, "I was referred"? Like, what's the process you have?

Bill & Victoria Raw: All the above. I j- I, I mean, all the above. I have-- Sometimes it's text messages, uh, phone, email, whatever. Um, but I, I did wanna kinda go back really quick on your point there. I think as far as meeting with people, if I can, um, th-there are those that come through that [00:23:00] they're like, "I wanna buy this house, and, and my agent told me to give you a call."

And, and, and those, um, you don't have time to do all the planning in advance, so it's a whole different conversation. I still try and backfill in, but it's not the same. Um, as far as how leads come in, um, how I'm introduced to people, it, it's all the above. And then, so whether it's an email or phone or whatever, I'm trying to get them on the phone as quickly as possible to start finding out what they're wanting to do with this next purchase.

Dino Bill & Victoria Raw: so it's interesting. I, I had made a, like a, it was a hard rule that if an agent wants to refer me, they could never just say, "Call this person." I always made them either do an email or text, and I preferred email introduction. And oftentimes I'd even give them a script if they didn't know what to write, so that...

It was just important to me. I [00:24:00] felt like, number one, first and foremost, everybody, everybody was involved. If the client doesn't respond back, then the agent knows I'm not the problem, they're the problem. If I didn't respond, or my team, right, then we're the problem. And, and by doing that, I felt like it always kind of, um, it kept the agent in the loop and, and showed authority and, um, you know, I don't know what the word is, but, uh, my efforts to, to put this forth, right?

Like, it, it was a good way to keep everybody in the loop. That was, that was the first thing I used to do a lot. Um, but then the other piece is after you talk to them, um, the, and, and I'm curious 'cause you're old school. I wanna see what, where you're at on this. Uh, do you send them a link to go fill out an application first?

Do you talk with them first? Um, what's your, your process? Do you even have them fill out a link, like an application?

Bill & Victoria Raw: so I really don't like people [00:25:00] filling out stuff online. Uh, I think there's a lot that, uh, of questions that, that can be asked that, that I don't get a chance to ask them. But, um, in today's world, I actually offer both a lot of times. I'll say, "You know, we, we have a, an online website that you can fill out if you want on your own, or if you prefer," frankly, I do, um, "I'd like to just spend about 10, 15 minutes with you collecting the basics, and then we'll go from there."

Dino Bill & Victoria Raw: Yeah. So I, I love that. And I'm old school too. Um, you know, I, I asked... Actually, I'm gonna, I'm gonna back into this real quick. I'm gonna ask Victoria. Victoria, 'cause you're obviously younger, new generation, do you send them a link to fill out a loan application? Is that just part of your thing, or do you fill it out for them?

Bill & Victoria Raw: I prefer phone call, which I'm a little more on the old school side, because I just find that it's easier and it causes less stress if I can just walk through it with them, and I have that initial phone call. But I [00:26:00] have some where they'll just be like, "I just want the link." And so with that, I actually started doing the group texting with the realtor and my production partner, because I was running into where like, "Oh, we didn't hear from her," or, you know, whatever it was, and that way it was all on the same page.

So then when I do-- when they do say they wanna do it online, then it's all, it's the link's in the group message, so then when it's not done, it's kinda like, "Well, I sent it." But I feel like I can get the application to convert if I can do it on, on a phone call versus just sending them the link, because then it kinda gets lost.

Dino Bill & Victoria Raw: Yeah, my, you know, my whole thing was everybody else sends them a link, so am I gonna be like everybody else, or am I giving somebody the, the real white glove treatment, you know, first class everything? And, and I remember asking a loan officer one time. A loan officer was, was kind of fighting me on it, and this was a long time ago, so the loan amounts are off a little [00:27:00] bit.

But, uh ... And, and actually you guys probably think this is still great, but I s- I said, um, "All right. Let me ask you a question. If I referred you somebody right now and, and they had a million-dollar loan, would you say, 'Here's the link. Fill it out and then we'll talk,' or would you, like, jump on the phone call and make sure it's, like, we're gonna lock this one up?'"

Right now, i- in California now, I have to say a $2 million loan in order to make somebody feel excited about it. But, uh, but the answer was always the same. It was like, "No, I'm never gonna send a million-dollar guy a link. I'm going to make sure I white, white glove it the whole way through." And I'm like, "Why wouldn't you, why wouldn't you do that for everybody then?"

Right? Like, why don't you let the Loan Depots and the Rockets and everybody else be, be who they are, and why don't you be somebody they can't be? Right? Like, that's, that's what makes us special in this big market of technology. We use it to be more effective and efficient, but we have something they don't, and that's, like, [00:28:00] genuine care and, and personality, you know?

Uh, uh, the, the ability to, to connect with somebody in person and really, like, care for them. So I, I'm glad you guys said that. And look, I know there's a lot of successful, a lot of successful mortgage advisors out there that just say, "Here's the link," and, and you can do more volume that way, but I think there's something special as we progress down this road of technology.

Do you wanna be just like everybody else, or do you wanna be just a little bit different so you can make sure that you don't get washed away in technology? So, um, if we kinda just keep moving forward now, right? Like, the loan closes. What kind of a process do you guys have, um, right at closing? 'Cause that's a pivotal time.

There's a lot of stress, sometimes a lot of happiness, sometimes some tears, um, sometimes a little bit of everything. And, and then it, and then it falls [00:29:00] into this space, right? Where nothing has to happen, but something can happen if you want it to. So guide me through funding, closing, and then what happens over that next 12 months

Bill & Victoria Raw: Um, so this is actually an ongoing project, first of all. But the, the basic workflow as it sits right now is there, there is a follow-up that's, I wanna say it's roughly, I think it's three weeks after closing- Yeah ... where we call and, and make sure that they've got everything they need for making a payment and so forth.

You know, how did the move go? Everything settled in, et cetera. Uh, but then there's the, the follow-up call, um, at the moment it's 12 months out to see if, uh, or just to check in, say hi. I, I, they used to do a really heavy AMR and all that stuff, and I-I've just found that it [00:30:00] was, you really didn't wanna do all that.

Um, so I just really started keeping it light, and I call it just call and say hi. Uh, so basically, I just call and say hi, um, at least every 12 months to where are you at? And, um, I'm calling to say hi, I've got their notes. I know all of the plans and all of the budgets and, and what the future plans are at that point from when I met them and walked through things year, in years past.

So w- I've kinda got that in context as I'm talking to them and, and seeing, you know, is the house still meeting a need? Where, how, how's everything coming? What are your, what are your thoughts now around you might wanna do something for the forever home or the move-up home and now X number of years and so forth.

So just little things like that, they, they know that, well, I actually paid attention, and I have a terrible memory, but I, I do have all those notes, so I, I ought to go back and look at all those notes and, and at least I sound intelligent to be able to walk through [00:31:00] everything with them. Um, so but what I'm wanting to do further that...

And I just need to, I guess, do it. Uh, but I, I wanna update that to six months to check in, say hi, 'cause if it's watered down, I can do it a lot more often. Um, and secondly, um, and this may be another topic, so if I'm getting onto another, you can just tell me to hush. But, um, I wanna start doing, like, classes with, with my closed clients around how do I accelerate payments on my house?

Do I wanna accelerate payments on my house? Do I wanna divert that into investments? And if so, who do I talk with about doing that? Um, really just taking all those plans that we've really set out to in the beginning and just really breathing life to that and helping that as an ongoing kind of basis. Um, so that's when some ideas I'm kind of throwing around.

There you went.

Dino Bill & Victoria Raw: that's interesting. I, I like the concept of that. Would you then [00:32:00] have a topic, a class, reach out to all your clients and ha- and engage and say, "Hey, if you guys wanna learn how to pay off your loan faster, this is the timeframe we're doing it," or is it a recording that you just send them?

Bill & Victoria Raw: No, I think it would be, uh, uh, what I've been thinking of doing it, and again, I just need to go do it, um, but is to really just to kinda have an open forum. 'Cause I mean, reality is you'll have maybe 10, 15 people show up, so we can talk through, you know, uh, and like I think a topic right there would be, "All right.

I wanna pay my house off early, and I'm gonna devote $500 a month towards that effort. What's the best way to do it? Do I save up money? Do I invest money and then allow that to snowball and use that to later pay off the house? Or do I just go and, and go directly at the mortgage and start knocking that down or, or what?"

And so we... I've, I've, I've got tons of, uh, case Case in points, I guess, if you will, are folks that I'm actively working with [00:33:00] or have recently worked with, um, that I can use as illustration toward that effort of, well, uh, you know, you could do it this way and then here's what will likely happen and so forth.

Dino Bill & Victoria Raw: Yeah, I love that actually. Can, can you give me just, uh, I guess don't give me, give everybody, um, a couple topics, just some ideas if somebody's interested in doing this that they can, they can think about just to get them started?

Bill & Victoria Raw: Well, um, as far as... Okay, uh

Dino Bill & Victoria Raw: You know what I'm doing here is I'm actually making you think about it so I can get your ass doing it. That's where I'm gonna, that's where I'm gonna end up with this when it's done.

Bill & Victoria Raw: This is gonna be recorded and people are gonna be saying, "So what'd you do with that idea?" It's not like... So yes, I am very much so guilty of over-perfecting. Um, so topic, I mean, I think really and honestly is, uh, it's kind of just that of, um, [00:34:00] how do I pay my house off early? What's the best, safest, fastest way to pay my house off early?

Um, and then I, I just feel like, um, having that open forum and just kind of thinking and talking through that with people would be the best way to do it. I think I answered your question. I hope so.

Dino Bill & Victoria Raw: You know what's interesting over the years, s- stuff that I've realized? Um, there's things that make sense financially, and then there's things that make sense, um, emotionally. And, um, and I say that because I can... I've learned through the years that I can, with numbers, make 100% sense of how you should do something if you wanna pay off your house early.

And yet, if somebody doesn't emotionally buy into it, they just can't, they can't handle it. They can't... It doesn't, it doesn't work, right? Like back, uh, we, I, we, I don't do, or we don't do ARMs as much as we used to, right? But back in the, in the days, [00:35:00] uh, prior to 2008, you know, doing a five, a seven, or a 10-year ARM was quite common.

And, and it made a lot of sense to me if you were If you had a high probability of moving within the next five years, why not do a seven-year arm and save, you know, with our prices over here, let's call it $300 a month? And then you got $300 a month that you could either invest somewhere or you can use to pay down the house faster, right?

But if somebody couldn't handle knowing what might happen in seven years Just didn't work.

Bill & Victoria Raw: I

actually met with them a year ago And we laid out plans around what they wanted to do. They had two modest homes, one [00:36:00] that they lived in day to day, and then they had a lake house. I mean, a modest lake house. But I mean, it's a, it's a lake house, and it was not something they really wanted to live in day in, day out.

Uh, but they really needed a bigger, nicer, newer house, uh, because it's getting bigger and so forth. So, um, I laid out the plan for them, and both houses owned, owned outright. So, uh, equity, tons and tons and tons of equity. Uh, but, but otherwise, you know, the majority of their net worth was, well, equity. So we laid out the plan and the idea of, okay, so first things first, we need to sell the lake house, gain that liquidity, and then let's start looking for the next house.

And we'll leverage that towards the effort of buying the next house, getting the budget to where you're comfortable. You know, no one wants to be in where the payment's so high that they are like, right. So get the budget to where it's comfortable, uh, and then turn around [00:37:00] and sell the current home afterwards, take that and put it into investments and allow that to grow over time so that you're then able to then come back, wipe it all out, debt-free again.

I just met with them last week. They sold the house, uh, the lake house, and they have all that cash sitting in the bank, uh, in, in checking. But it's, now it's only been there for a minute. And, um, so they're going to then go in and we're already under contract now to, to buy that house that was perfect for what their situation is.

And then the plans that they already now have the, the current home, uh, going on the market, I think either, maybe it's already on the market. So it's definitely happening now. To take that money and then, uh, put it into investments. And I've, I've introduced them to a financial advisor to show them how to make all that happen.

And according to what I laid out for them, if they just assumed an eight percent per year [00:38:00] annual return on that money, they'll be in a position to pay the house off in four years. Moreover, she actually wants to retire in 10 years. So at this point, their income is at its greatest in the near future for them for likely the next 10 years.

Um, so to further the investments that will endure retirement for them over the years, we also looked at what would that number look like in that investment account if you just waited to pull the trigger and pay the house off? What if you just waited until year 10 when you're ready to retire? And based on those numbers, they'd have over a half a million dollars left over after they pay off the house if they just wait and do so in 10 years, furthering their investments.

So that, that was exciting. I liked that. That was pretty... That was fun. It was fun.

Dino Bill & Victoria Raw: You know, you guys listening, um, there's a difference. I, and I say this a lot on the show, right? A loan officer has a job, a mortgage advisor has a [00:39:00] career, and, and that's what the difference is right there. You know, if all you care about is slamming somebody into a loan, then moving on to the next, that's a loan officer.

If, if you understand the, the overall structure, if you understand all the options that people have, and then you learn how to present that to somebody, that, that changes and elevates who you are in your profession, and that's how you become, you know, better. So I, I love that story. That was great. Um, Victoria, question for you.

You learned from your dad, but would you say you're a version 2.0? 'Cause oftentimes, you know, version 2.0 is a little better than 1.0.

Bill & Victoria Raw: No, I won't say I'm burned. I'm not yet, but I-- that the goal is to get there. She's being modest. I mean, she is way better, uh, at stuff like that than me. We are, we are polar opposites. Polar opposites. Yeah. [00:40:00] Um.

Dino Bill & Victoria Raw: I, I have, uh, a guy that I coached for a while, his name's Mike, and he was brand new in the business. Sharp guy, though. He was a CPA, decided he wanted to, to do loans. And, and I coached him, and he did everything I told him to do, and he got really good. And, uh, lo and behold, um, several years later, he's now my partner here at Ethos.

And, uh, I joke because he would never say this, but he always took everything I taught him, and he just gave it a little spin, right? Just, just a tiny little spin so it fit his personality a little better. And, and then after all the years, right, I, I was like, "Hey, that's pretty good. That's... What'd you do?" And he tells me, and I'm like...

And then all of a sudden I'm like, "Gosh dang it, there's this new version 2.0 around and it's better than 1.0." So I- where I'm going with it is that you should always be trying to better what you [00:41:00] do. Don't ever get complacent. Things are changing so much. Don't ever get complacent. Always work on version 2.0, version 3.0.

Keep on going. Look at all the different software companies out there, right? Like, they're always doing updates. That's what we need to do as well in our profession, update after update after update. Um, I'm gonna take one minute here to pull up a couple of these redneck jokes and see if we got any that, that resonate with you guys.

Um, I asked a client from rural, rural Tennessee for his debt-to-income ratio. He said, "Well I owe money to everybody in three counties. So it's pretty high. Then he asked if deer hunting season counted as income. Eh. Um, the difference between a redneck and a mortgage broker. A redneck knows when to stop digging himself into a hole.

Uh, I tried to explain APR to a guy once. He goes, "I already [00:42:00] got one of those, a pickup truck. Why do I need another?"

Let me, let me see if there's any good ones here. I told a client his property value has, had appreciated. He said, "Great. How much is that deer... How much, how much is that in deer stands?" Nothing says strong application like when a guy's W-2 is from a company that no longer exists, but his hunting license is current.

Man, is that all h- is that all rednecks do is hunt?

Bill & Victoria Raw: I think

Dino Bill & Victoria Raw: Every, every joke is about hunting.

Bill & Victoria Raw: think largely, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Dino Bill & Victoria Raw: Um, people ask, last, last one. People ask why I love this job. I say, "Where else can you help someone achieve the American dream of owning a home, even if they think Fannie Mae is a country music festival?" All right.

Bill & Victoria Raw: That's a good [00:43:00] one.

Dino Bill & Victoria Raw: Victoria, what is your favorite book?

Bill & Victoria Raw: This is bad. I haven't read a book in a long time. I actually was just cleaning out my office and I've, I just put out, um, was it "The Power of Who?" Because I almost talked a lot when we were just at GrowthCon, and I never took the time to read it, and I do need to read more. So that, I'm gonna-- that's my goal.

Um, yeah, the first one that actually captured my attention is still one of my favorites. Um, it's called the, "The Secret." It was written by John DiJulius a long time ago, and it's all about all of those little secret systems that companies use to, to figure out what is important to people and, and to just provide an amazing experience.

Uh, it's based on some of the Ritz Carlton aspects of, of how they [00:44:00] learn from clients and their experiences in the past to then anticipate their needs and wants on the next visit. And I just thought it was fascinating.

Dino Bill & Victoria Raw: Real question. Do rednecks read a lot or no?

Bill & Victoria Raw: I don't think so. No. I, I actually fall asleep if I'm trying to read something. So, uh, I usually listen to it on audio, but that book actually, I, uh, was able to read it from cover to cover a few times and didn't fall asleep. So yeah, I, I guess that is kind of her

Dino Bill & Victoria Raw: That's hilarious. Uh, w- just for fun, 'cause then I'm gonna get to, to the next question, but just for fun, uh, we went to your retreat in Cabo, and, uh, you took your family out for sushi. We were at the, uh, one and only Palmilla, which for those of you guys that haven't been there, it is fricking expensive, like every little thing.

I think breakfast was like over 100 bucks every time. [00:45:00] Anyways, you guys went out for sushi, and I want you to tell everybody your sushi experience.

Bill & Victoria Raw: Which one? We did it a few times. Um,

Dino Bill & Victoria Raw: the one where you don't get to order what you want to order.

Bill & Victoria Raw: oh. Actually, I thought that was really amazing. Um, so they, they, you know, got this, this, uh, this restaurant that's right there. It's, it's like, uh, on a bridge in the, uh, a walkway that you kinda walk up. Anyways, uh, it is beautiful. It's all lined up where you walk in and it's just one huge just, um, uh, I guess, uh, area where they're doing the food prep, and then on each side is seats.

And, uh, there was this guy there who was the, the chef, and he was assigned to us, our table, and he was prepping everything right there in front of us. And the precision and the, the just the, the, the methodology that he was using on every single little thing. I mean, he literally had [00:46:00] tweezers that he was grabbing this stuff and sticking it on this and that and the other.

He moved this stuff around and, ah, it was, it was insane. I don't know what stuff half of it was called, but, uh, it was delicious, I can tell you that. And then we, yeah, we got the bill in the end, and it was, it was something special.

Dino Bill & Victoria Raw: So, so that's what I remember. I remember you telling me about the bill, like over 1,000 bucks or something, right?

Bill & Victoria Raw: No. No, it's like, I think, $1,000 for- ... uh, three of us to have dinner. And I was like, "Oh my God. I hope you guys enjoyed it." But it was crazy. But it was a one in a lifetime experience. I mean, it was, it was just amazing to, to watch him go through everything so carefully and, and put it all together. It reminded me of that movie that Todd had told us all about, the, uh, the, the sushi movie.

I, you probably remember the name of it, [00:47:00] but I'm, it's escaping me at the moment. Where they were just so specific about how everything went and the methodology behind it and why, and it was just, it was cool.

Dino Bill & Victoria Raw: was the one where the rice was- It was the Michelin restaurant in, uh, I think Japan somewhere and- Uh, the, the intern or whatever you call him, worked there for, like, 20-something years trying to work his way up to, to being the master chef, right? Sushi guy.

Bill & Victoria Raw: Right

Dino Bill & Victoria Raw: Um, the waiting list was, like, a year long, and you know, doesn't matter what you like or don't like, you, you only get whatever they're making that day, period. So

Bill & Victoria Raw: Right.

Dino Bill & Victoria Raw: let's finish this off. Um, you guys can choose who goes first, but my, my favorite question, always the last question of the, the podcast. If I took you guys, dropped you off somewhere in the United States where you didn't know anybody, and you get all the knowledge you have, but you don't [00:48:00] know anybody, right?

So you can't just go call on, on your agents or your past clients, and you don't have a lot of money. I give you enough of an allowance to cover your bills and maybe just a little extra if you wanted to get creative with some way of trying to grow your business, but again, very little. do you do? And oh, by the way, you can't go see your family or talk to your family until you make a million dollars.

And Victoria, that means your little two French bulldogs. Um, you will not be able to see them unless you make a million bucks. How are you guys going to do that?

Bill & Victoria Raw: You go. Oh, okay. Well, so that would be a big change for me 'cause, um, well, most of my folks are, yeah, from other folks. But, um, I still think that, you know, the real estate agents that people are trusting to help them go find the houses, that's gonna be the most viable source of people for us to work with right then.

Uh, [00:49:00] so if I was in a new area, I would be, A, I would be looking for, um, I would be putting together a list of those agents that I would say that are the kind of the, the upper middle end of who's doing what. Uh, and, 'cause there are gonna be people who are already moving with a lot of folks and, and already have the contacts in place.

Uh, but they're not gonna be those that already have necessarily these rock solid alliances with people that they wanna work with. And then I would simultaneously be sitting down and, and, and getting to know the local title agents, insurance agents, financial advisors, et cetera, as quickly as possible, letting them know what I do that I could do to help them with their clients and get, and also to reach other clients, and then use that as a segue, uh, for them to introduce me to those people on my list.

And I would be going and meeting with those agents on my list, [00:50:00] probably coffee. But I would be meeting with those agents on my list to get to know them and, um, tell them about how we operate and really bolting onto that, that agent that's more methodical with how they wanna handle, uh, working with folks.

Be that, that filter, that, that, that person who's able to set up the front end for them so that- They're able to then get all of the information as far as what a client is actually comfortable with as far as budget. Well, how does this need to look as far as numbers on the front end? And so forth, and the buyers are already comfortable with it and bought in because we've already gone through it meticulously together.

And so then that agent can take that or show them houses that fit that criteria, then not only are they signing contracts, but they're actually closing, and that, I think is probably more important. Uh, so that, and then after that, um, as far as when people are going through that [00:51:00] process, the follow-up process that ensues while they're out looking for houses, that's the other part of what I would be bringing to those agent partnerships is the follow-up.

Um, I call it calendar stacking. It's really, really simple. Uh, you s- it's, depending on how fast they're wanting to move into their home, we're either gonna call them every week, or if it's, you know, in a couple, two, three months, then we're gonna call them every other week, and everyone else gets called on every four weeks.

Everybody gets a touch at least once every four weeks, some twice, if not four times during that same timeframe. But everyone gets a touch, so that's what I would do is to be going with them and, um, going through those aspects.

Dino Bill & Victoria Raw: Old, old school, basically.

Bill & Victoria Raw: Uh, yeah, you put that whole thing into that two words, so yeah, old school.

Dino Bill & Victoria Raw: Yeah, no, I mean, you know, there's, there's a lot of, uh, you know, I've thought about that question and, and I would... [00:52:00] I personally, I think would go 80% old school and 20% new school. You know, because at the end of the day, old school's still, I, I think, gonna win. But the 20% might put a little bit of, of rocket fuel on it.

That's the social media stuff and, you know, some of the cool AI stuff that you can do that, that, uh, uh, you know, we wouldn't have been able to do unless we had some marketing department and we gave them, you know, a week's notice before. Now we can just, like whip something up and, and look amazing, uh, when we go to these meetings, right?

But Victoria, what, what about you? How would you go about it? I mean, you're doing it right now, right? Like, so- Yeah.

Bill & Victoria Raw: Yeah. I was like, I probably wouldn't change too much. A more, I would be more present on social media, but I would target, I would probably pull up social media wherever the new city is, try to find younger agents that are kind of in my same realm. Um, some that are already closing business and some that are brand new.

Something that I also did is that I, uh, [00:53:00] I went to every... So we have, like, a board of realtors. They would do events, like, almost weekly. I would go to those events every single week. Um, and that was something really big, so I would find the local board office, and that was because I didn't know a lot of people.

Like, I was, you know- I'm, I'm his kid, but I knew people, but they didn't really know me. And so I was just making myself at every social event that I could ever be at. I was doing five days a week. Um, and so I would definitely do that again, because it gets you in front of a lot of people at once. And so that was really big.

And then I would meet insurance contacts, title attorneys at those events. Um, and then I would probably do, if I had the knowledge that I had now, I would have the confidence to go do like open house pop-bys. Um, a lot of realtors don't have like on-site lenders, and they're the ones hustling on the weekends at an open house is kind of how I look at those.

So I would personally go by and pop by and see who I could know that, you know, needs a lender, um, or a new [00:54:00] resource and just introduce myself that way.

Dino Bill & Victoria Raw: you. If you were an attractive young woman, do you think you could get more loans? A

Bill & Victoria Raw: A lot more loans. I mean, I was

Dino Bill & Victoria Raw: me too.

Bill & Victoria Raw: that. You were talking about all the social stuff and everything. No one wants to see me on social media talking about stuff. But her, oh yeah, I mean, so, uh, yeah.

Dino Bill & Victoria Raw: All right, you guys, thank you for joining me. I appreciate 

Bill & Victoria Raw: All 

Dino Bill & Victoria Raw: It was fun. Um, even though I, I know a lot about you guys already, this, this was a ton of fun for me, so thank you. I hope you guys all learned a little bit about, uh, about the Claytons and, um, hopefully you took a little something from what they do and you can implement it into your daily lives, into your career to enhance upon it.

'Cause as we said earlier in the show, you should always be looking for the next version, right? Version 2.0, version 3.0, and so on and so on. Things keep changing and evolving, so should you. Don't [00:55:00] get stuck doing the exact same thing all the time. Aside from that, I wanna thank you for listening. I wanna thank you for being a part of our, our tribe here, and I'm just grateful, truly, truly grateful as we've made the top 100, uh, at, uh, Apple Podcasts, and we got a ton of new stuff coming, and I am looking forward to sharing it with you guys.

So thank you so much for joining, and we'll see you next time

Bill & Victoria Raw: Thanks, you know