The AI Revolution Every Loan Officer Needs to Understand with Ryan O'Kane

What happens when a top-producing mortgage leader stops asking whether AI is coming—and starts building with it?

In this episode of The Way with Dino Katsiametis, Dino sits down with Ryan O'Kane, CEO of Arbor Financial Group, mortgage industry veteran, technology innovator, and one of the most forward-thinking leaders in lending today.

Ryan shares how he grew Arbor Financial from a small operation into a company with hundreds of loan officers while continuing to originate loans himself. He pulls back the curtain on the systems, technology, automation, leadership principles, and AI strategies that are transforming the future of mortgage lending.

But this conversation goes much deeper than technology.

Ryan and Dino tackle one of the biggest questions facing the industry:

Will AI replace mortgage professionals—or will it make great advisors even more valuable?

From automation and operational efficiency to relationship-building, database marketing, scaling teams, and the future of real estate referrals, this episode delivers practical insights for mortgage professionals who want to stay ahead of the curve.

If you're serious about growing your business, leveraging technology, and future-proofing your career, this is an episode you can't afford to miss.

Thanks for listening to "The Way With Dino Katsiametis"  
 For full show notes, links, and extra episode resources, visit dinokatsiametis.com.
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Learn more about Ethos Lending at ethoslending.com.  

Transcript

Dino Ryan Interview: [00:00:00] All right, here we are. Ryan O'Kane, CEO of Arbor Financial Group. Welcome to the show

Ryan Dino Interview: Thanks, buddy. Thanks for having me. Appreciate it

Dino Ryan Interview: So I'm gonna enjoy this because a couple things. One, I- we got started in 1998, both of us at the same time, so I think we can just both relate to pretty much everything that we've been through. Um, I don't know how old you are, though. How old are you?

Ryan Dino Interview: 51, man. Just turned May 15th.

Dino Ryan Interview: Damn, I'm older than you. So I'm 55, so a little respect maybe back this way for the, the age.

And, uh, and we're, and we're, we're neighbors. I don't know where you live, but you're in Orange County. I'm in San Juan Capistrano. Where are you?

Ryan Dino Interview: I'm in, uh, El Miguel, dude, like, uh, Miguel Heights

Dino Ryan Interview: Okay, so we're, we're

Ryan Dino Interview: Or Laguna Miguel.

Dino Ryan Interview: So we have a lot in common, and there's one thing that we don't have in common, and you have 300-something loan officers working for you, and I don't. So, so I have a lot to learn, and I'm gonna enjoy this show because I'm gonna pick your brain. [00:01:00] Usually this is for, like, everybody else.

I want everybody to, to come away from this podcast with, like, knowledge of how to do better in business, how to do better in family and, and be more successful, right? I think that'll all happen, but I just... I'm gonna just tell you up front, my goal here is for me to walk away that way because you have something I want, not in a bad way, but in a good way.

So, uh, so I'm looking forward to it. So first, who is Ryan O'Kane, both personally and professionally?

Ryan Dino Interview: Ooh, so Ryan O'Kane. So personally, I am, uh, I am a dad. I love being a dad. I've got, um, four amazing kids. So I've got a 18-year-old daughter, a 17-year-old son, um, from my first marriage. Uh, had a little hiatus, got remarried, and, uh, I've got a seven-year-old son and a five-year-old daughter. So I would say when, you know, it's-- I don't want to be cliché in the why, but I think, [00:02:00] um, they definitely are the why.

I've got a beautiful wife that loves to travel, um, so she is-- drags me all around the world, which is a lot of fun. And then as far as like hobbies go, um, you know, I love playing golf, love skiing, love everything that California has to offer, right? I mean, it's one of the, like, love it or hate it. There is one of the few places where you can surf in the morning and go skiing in the, uh, in the afternoon.

And so, um, just love being outside, and that again is kind of like why I, I think I work as hard as I do is because, you know, we're blessed to be in a business that gives us the opportunity to afford, um, you know, a lot of fun things to do and take care of your family and take care of yourself out in a, you know, outside and just have fun.

And then, uh, professionally, so as you mentioned, CEO of Arbor Financial Group. Um, we have been, been at it, like you said, since '98. Started Arbor back in 2000. Well, it was 2008 is when started the company. Uh, partnered with [00:03:00] Dave Arvidson in 2010 and, uh, been kind of on our journey. Went non-delegated correspondent 2013, and then have just been continuing to grind since then.

I still originate to this day as well. So while I, I kind of primarily handle the marketing and technology infrastructure at Arbor, um, I also still have my own originating team and branch in here. So I do, um, still do a decent chunk of volume myself to stay, um, stay sharp, and I just love, you know, I just, I love originating, so.

Dino Ryan Interview: All right. So, so what does a, a CEO of a large company still originate on a yearly basis? What'd you do last

year 

Ryan Dino Interview: yeah, so personally, I think l- I think that's-- I got really, and I, you know, inter- not interesting story, but, you know, 2025, I mean, I'm sure as you know, so, so 2021 was, you know, I, uh, doing this as long as we have, we've been through quite a few cycles, and I have, have been telling folks, I think the hardest cycle, uh, to be in the mortgage business was this '21 to 20, you know, 2021 to [00:04:00] 2024.

I felt like I'd never seen, uh, we'd never been through a cycle where we had taken so much opportunity off the table, um, like that we saw with COVID, and then actually have rates run up so quickly to where it was like you l- you literally had cleaned the table and it was, you kinda had to reinvent yourself into what products you were gonna find.

So, um, reason I start there is because there was a lot of focus in '21 to '24 at, like, really, um, kind of re-envisioning our company in terms of, like, retooling a little bit and really just kinda like survival mode of trying to grow our way out of the, the drop in volume that we experienced from the, in that '21 to '24 cycle.

Um, but that came at the expense of a lot of my origination. So I think towards the tail end of 2024, I got frustrated and decided to start focusing on originating again. Um, one, because we had, we had stumbled across some decent sized branch managers, and while I could really speak to our platform and the benefit [00:05:00] to, like, the independent loan officer, it was kind of, I was struggling to kind of describe the benefit to larger, larger branches that had, were doing a lot of volume.

So I was like, you know, "I need to build my own branch." Um, so I did that, and I wanna say, uh, through the first half of the year, I think we're cresting up at about 30 to 35 million. So, you know, our target, our goal, it's pretty funny, like all the passwords I put for our teams, uh, like our websites that we're riffing and Claude and everything, every password I put is 200 mil.

So my goal is to get the branch to 200 mil. Um, and I kicked-- And that pretty much started at the beginning of this year. So we're, we're gonna,

Dino Ryan Interview: That's, that's great, man. It's so interesting how much we have in common, so I also got four kids, and, um, two from the first wife, two from, you know, my, my wife now of 14 years, and my passwords are five, 5 billion, 5B.

Ryan Dino Interview: Yeah. That's perfect, buddy. Yeah. Integrate your goals in your, in your everyday [00:06:00] reminders,

Dino Ryan Interview: Absolutely. Absolutely. So, so that's a great, great story. Um, I, I'd like to kind of back into it a little bit and talk about some of the, the problems, right, and the growth and the difficulties. And a lot of it, whether it's a business owner

Ryan Dino Interview: All right, love

Dino Ryan Interview: mortgage advisor just trying to grow their business, right? A lot of that stuff is, it's all the same.

And, and I believe overcoming obstacles, right, is how you grow, and, and embracing them and learning from them. So in your case, right, you, we know you got a 98. Um, I know you did some wholesale in the beginning, then you started your own company, then you partnered, I think you said in, was it 2012?

Ryan Dino Interview: 2010 is when we partnered, yeah

Dino Ryan Interview: And then you became non-del in 2013, which I think was one of the front runners of becoming non-del, right?

'Cause there wasn't that many non-del people back then. And at that [00:07:00] point, how many loan officers were at your company?

Ryan Dino Interview: S- at, in 2013?

Dino Ryan Interview: Yeah

Ryan Dino Interview: So I wanna say in 2013 we were probably around like a 25 to 35 clip,

Dino Ryan Interview: And were

Ryan Dino Interview: in that zone

Dino Ryan Interview: were they all self-sourcing or was, was it a bunch of lead guys?

Ryan Dino Interview: No, it's always been, we've always been referral-based

Dino Ryan Interview: Okay. And, and then when, when did you, did you, were you guys trying to grow at that point? Or was it more like broker, owner, you're, you're, you're hustling doing loans. If somebody comes and works here, it's great. I'll try a little bit, but I'm too busy doing loans

Ryan Dino Interview: You know, I th-- it's interesting, right? So we were doing, at the time, like Dave, Dave and I were, were very, um, I would say we were very solid originators. So like right around that twenty thirteen, I th- twenty thirteen time, I think we were doing, I was doing about eighty to eighty-five million. He was doing close to eighty to eighty-five million, [00:08:00] which was a lot of volume.

So we-- And I think we attracted folks who were interested in trying to understand how we did it. And we actually, we had a pretty, a compelling story, right? Because I had come out of wholesale lending, right? I wasn't a retail originator. I was a wholesale mortgage banker from, you know, for the first ten years of my career.

And one of the things, and Dave, if Dave were with us now, he would tell the story where I took a lot of, like, I was really a CRM nerd and like a tech nerd at, at Countrywide, and that's what helped propel-- Like I was able to become the top account executive in the nation there, and I, I took a lot of those tools and employed the account executives at my branch in Orange County, and we became the top branch in the country.

And that's, you know, you're at Countrywide, which at the day that was like the top lender. So it was a, um, I felt when I left there, I had this like basket of tools that I'd already, you know, [00:09:00] played with in the real world. And I was able in-- Dave had been doing retail mortgage origination since ninety-eight.

I was able to come into the channel in twenty, call it in two thousand and eight, and by twenty thirteen, I had done more if, you know, more volume than he was doing. And he'll sit there and he goes, "It was..." And then once I plugged his database into our systems, then he was like, his whole business kind of lit up.

And that's kind of what prompted our, you know, kind of this, uh, our original tagline was like promoting you, which it was all around having like a hosted, a quote unquote, "hosted marketing platform" for originators, right? Um, where, you know, I, I, having managed and been with lots of salespeople, like I know we're not very, they're not very, we're not very good at maintaining databases, um, not very good at, at being consistent in marketing and all those things.

So we just decided to say, look, how do we, how do we automate, like early on automate this stuff, whether it was through having people [00:10:00] or whether it was through the technology that we were investing in, where we could just automate a marketing platform that did all of the just baseline stuff that an originator needed.

And that's when we, when we did that, that's kind of when things started to... We had a story to tell, right? And that's ultimately when you want to grow, you need, you need like, you need a story.

Dino Ryan Interview: So what does, what does automating all that look like for... A-a-actually let's, let's skip through that, right? 'Cause that's so everything was old. There's a lot of new stuff now, right? And, and you're, you're in charge of a, in my eyes, a g-good sized company. Um, I think old school is still pretty strong, but, but you gotta have tools and you gotta be forward-thinking.

What does, uh, a company like Arbor think about the future? Like, what do we have to start doing now in order to be in business five years from now?

Ryan Dino Interview: No, that's a... I do, I love that question, man. Um, and honestly, it's [00:11:00] what makes our business so much fun. And I was, I was speaking, I, I was speaking on a panel on Monday at the IMN Non-QM Conference, and it was around AI and the mortgage experience from the borrower experience, wholesaler, and, um, servicing. And, uh, I think we, we are in this amazing, like this amazing moment of time with all of the, all of the potential that is sitting out there with all the noise with AI.

But once you strip away the noise and if you were to s- you know, say what's the vision of once these things start to bolt on and once you get through the governance and once you get through the regulation and you get through all these things, I, I do, I believe, I believe that we are going to get to a point where, um, the originator, like the market is going to...

Our, our process is going to flatten, but the originator will still stay intact. And I think the way that we actually place and price loans is gonna [00:12:00] be extremely direct, meaning that I don't know if it's similar to like, uh, uh, what Pylon is doing out there, but I think that the wholesalers, there's alm- I would almost argue there's gonna be like this new channel or a new process to where you originate a loan and the autom- the findings are gonna be so good and the underwriting's gonna be happening so real time that the value, and that you're gonna be able to b- have the decision and value the transaction, go through the exceptions and get all that.

That stuff is gonna move so quick to the point where, you know, as soon as we're able to, um, you know, quote our borrower, explain the solution they want, package that, that packet of data, we're gonna take that packet of data and it's gonna go out. It will be underwritten, priced, and basically ready to be sold in, in hours, right?

A- and, and it's just gonna be... And then there's gonna be the only thing that, and who knows where appraisals go in the future, but I, I have a feeling that, that, um, w- it's gonna, I think it's gonna be great for the [00:13:00] consumer. I think it's gonna, we're gonna, the cost of originating is gonna start deflating, which it needs to, right?

I mean, you've been doing this a long time. When I got in, like brokers and I think the total cost to, to originate a loan was definitely under 200 bips, and you look at where the IMBs have been running for the last, you know, 10 years in the 300, 350 range, and it keeps, seems to keep going up. I think it's the flat...

That, that is gonna flatten out because you're just not gonna need all the people to, to do what we do.

Dino Ryan Interview: So Pylon is interesting, right? There's-- That's, uh, that's kinda coming in strong and I, I am captivated by it. Um, there's a lot of people that still don't know really what that is and what's happening. Can you give us all just maybe a, a little, you know, 60-second understanding of Pylon so that they can understand what you were saying about where it might be going?

Ryan Dino Interview: Yeah. So like their, their value prop is, is to, is that they essentially are g- are making the claim that they have, [00:14:00] like, you know, automated the process, the, the manufacturing process to where they've eliminated a lot of the, the people and waste in the wholesale channel to the extent... And the claim is that basically the file is doing exactly what they're doing.

They're gonna, you, they're, you're gonna deliver the loan to them. They're gonna run credit. They're gonna do the-- They basically are gonna do the f- full, I don't wanna say origination process, but they're gonna process the file for you, and their processing mechanism is so efficient and it's so wired tight the way that it moves between the street that it delivers, you know, they'll say that's 100, 100 basis points better, but that doesn't include the margin that they take out.

Um, and they have kind of a cascading flow on that front. But it, it does provide, I would say on, on any given transaction about a 30 to 40 basis point pickup. Um, so,

Dino Ryan Interview: and then that doesn't require a processor?

Ryan Dino Interview: It depends on your work, on the workflow of the originator, but the [00:15:00] majority of the processing work in terms of ordering the credit, ordering the order outs, my understanding is those are, those are being done in-house.

Like a lot of the, um, like they're controlling as much of the process in-house to automate it out as opposed to it being really clunky on the outside. But there's still gonna be conditions, there's still gonna be steps that you send in, but those steps are-- So whether or not you have a processor do that, um, you know, but

Dino Ryan Interview: And, and do you think that's going to start changing the outcome of what an originator can make? That they'll be making less money now per loan because of stuff like that

Ryan Dino Interview: I, you know, I don't, I don't think so. I think, I, I think that it's going to s- um I think that it's, uh, you know, my feeling is that it, it depends on where the margin dec- de- decides to end up, right? Um, you know, the competition, the competition at the [00:16:00] street level is what's gonna dictate what we can make, right?

So I think what's really gonna influence how much the originator makes is, is how many originators have access to that type of execution and that type of price, right? Because ultimately that competition is what's gonna drive it down. And then there's... And so I think as more and more... You know, if you look at like just the broker channel in general, I think we're at like 28 to 33, depending on the, what stat you're in.

So there's still a ways to go before you have enough, you know, enough borrowers out there, enough loan officers with access to that type of price that's really gonna start-- Then they're all competing and it's gonna really start driving the, the cost of origination down. But I do think it's happening.

Like you look at all the mergers that are start- You know, I mean the IMBs, I don't know, man. I, I... It's-- There's gonna be-- There's the strong will survive, the big boys will, will stay in it, but there's-- you're, you're gonna continue to see people rolling up like, um, [00:17:00] Synergy and AM-- Yeah, I think it was American Pacific, right?

Just merge. I think it's just gonna keep consolidating

Dino Ryan Interview: Do, do you think that with technology, the quality of the loan officer, in other words, does the loan officer have to be as, as good at doing loans as we were, you know, because of how we grew up in the business, as opposed to you just gotta be a damn good marketer and get the, the loan in, and then it takes care of itself?

Ryan Dino Interview: I, it'll be, I don't s- I, I, so I think Long, like if we're going out like into the five, 10-year window, I think perhaps we start, maybe you start getting into that where the technology starts to get that good, right? Right now there's a quote or a soundbite that, that, um, I think somebody posted when I was, I was chatting on that panel where, you know, the borrower experience, like I-- the-- we had however many people in the, in the, in like the auditorium.

I'm [00:18:00] like, "Raise your hand if you like talking to an AI chatbot." Right? There, there's not one person there that raised their hand. Like, so there's this, there's this kind of... And maybe it's because it's just the gen- the generational gap. Um, but I do still feel like, you know, borrower experience, it's when you're really gonna spend a lot of money on something and it's really gotta be right, I do feel like there's this premium on, on this human-to-human interaction, and I also feel like there's a premium on, on the quality of the intelligence and the quality of the experience and the information you're getting from, from said advisor

Dino Ryan Interview: yeah, so it's interesting though. Um, I had my first experience recently within the last two weeks where I discovered as I was progressing that it was an AI, you know, uh, voice that was talking to me, and I decided to have a little fun with it. Uh, but I gotta say, man, it was pretty [00:19:00] good. So like I didn't get annoyed 'cause I was impressed versus, and, and this sounds terrible of me, but versus when I have somebody from, you know, overseas that I, I understand and then they repeat the pro- the, what I said and then, and it's like, they should just fricking do it for me, man.

Like they'll repeat everything I say, right? Like that, the accent and all that stuff drives me insane 'cause I feel like nothing's getting done and nobody can really understand what I'm saying. Versus, uh, i- if AI gets good enough, I'm like, "Yeah, whatever. As long as this gets done, I'm happy."

Ryan Dino Interview: Yeah. Well, I think, and this is where I think the, um... was another panel. I was at, I was at, up at PennyMac and I, and they asked me to speak at one of their executive retreats for wholesale, and they had the original sales guy from OpenAI, um, Zach, I think it was Bass it was his name. Um And the guy was, I, I mean, his [00:20:00] perspective on, on AI and where the future is going is, was so f- like, was so far beyond what, what I had thought.

But it was spot on because here's a guy that was actually at the ground floor of OpenAI when they were developing, and his job was going out and, and selling, you know, ChatGPT to Coca-Cola and, and all that, getting all those corporate accounts and, and explaining what it can do. Um, and the reason why I bring him up is 'cause people were like, "Hey, is AI gonna replace our jobs?

Is AI gonna do what?" Blah, blah, blah. Like, there was a, a lot of questions around that front. And, and the part that was illuminating to me was the amount of policy and regulations that are on the books that prevent that from happening.

Dino Ryan Interview: Mm-hmm.

Ryan Dino Interview: And there was a post on LinkedIn the other day where someone's like, "Oh, there's this startup and they've got this in seed money and they're gonna make a completely autonomous mortgage process."

I'm like, "You're, you're really not," because, you know, you're... That, like, NMLS, like the lending, like, like, when you go through, like, the le- like all [00:21:00] of the lending laws and you look at Fannie and Freddie and you look... You know, it's, um, uh, it's kind of like when you come down and when, when there's a mistake on something that where if you make a mistake on it, it costs a person a lot of money, there needs to be a throat to choke, and you're not gonna choke your keyboard

Dino Ryan Interview: Yeah

Ryan Dino Interview: and, and be like, "Oh, the A- it's the AI agent's fault."

Like, um, so I think we've got a long, I think we've got a long, long way to go. I think, I think the focus right now if people wanna really leverage what's available in technology is really on operational efficiency in between the seams of the business. Um, and I think the originator side and the consumer experience side, you can probably lay over some of the technology, but it's gonna start, you're gonna start dealing with these policy regulations and what exactly is, like, are you infringing on LO?

Um, like licensed activity versus non-licensed activity is gonna be, uh, it's gonna be an interesting, interesting [00:22:00] progression.

Dino Ryan Interview: I, I have mixed, mixed feelings or thoughts about all that stuff. Um, here's kinda my take on it. I, I heard a story a while back when AI was really kinda getting going, and it said right now AI is, like, the smartest kid in high school,

and pretty soon it'll be the smartest kid in college, and f- and then the next layer up will be the smartest person in the world.

And, you know, we've kinda seen that progression happen, which has been pretty cool to see. I, I think regarding our industry, uh, where I see it is that the person that, old school, the person that knows how to go out and make relationships and connect with people will be the one that flourishes on the mortgage advisor side.

Um, and, and, but needs to be able to use tools to be able to do [00:23:00] more than a handful of loans or even more than 10 loans. Like that, that old school, like, I have an LOA, I have a, a processor, I have this. I mean, you can do a lot of volume, but that's a lot of labor, and I think-

Ryan Dino Interview: Yeah

Dino Ryan Interview: That's gonna get to a point where you won't be able to, you know, you should be able to do all of that with one person, right?

Not, not a whole team of people. And, and

Ryan Dino Interview: I agree with you

Dino Ryan Interview: they're, on the loan officer side, like, right, 'cause I always make this distinction, um, and everybody that listens to the show knows this. Like, a loan officer has a job, a mortgage advisor has a career. And when I think on the loan officer side, the ones that have jobs, you know, right now, I, I mean, I'm sure you guys have some, too.

I have some guys that are only closing, like, one or two loans a month at, at most, and the reality is, is like, I don't- I'm just like, it's mind-boggling to me. Like, come on, you guys. But the reality is I could do two loans a month just in my commute period and [00:24:00] not work the whole rest of the day and, and with our loan amounts in Orange County, that's actually a pretty decent living for a lot of people, right?

Like, that's still a lot of money. It's more money than you'd make working full time somewhere else. So, so it's been pretty easy to, to say I can, I only have to do one loan or two loans a month, and I'm living a pretty good life. But I, I think the amount, the margins are going to change, uh, because of competition level and, and the, the, the lower...

Uh, we just won't need as much payroll coming, coming in the future. There won't be the need for as many LOAs, as many processors. And when you bring that cost down, and then everybody starts fighting for it, I think how much money we're gonna make on every loan is gonna start getting a little bit more slim.

And, and I think the ones that, the guys that are doing one or two loans a month aren't gonna be able to make it anymore. And, and I think the ones that are doing good are gonna start doing really great. [00:25:00] Um, I look at... Uh, do you know who Sean Herrero is up in

Ryan Dino Interview: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yep

Dino Ryan Interview: right? I mean, a $100 million producer, solid, right, every year and all that.

He's, he's trying to go from, I think he did 150 last year. He's trying to go to 300. Like, he's trying to double that, that production. And, and it's actually possible, right? And he's tracking. Last time I talked to him, he said he was tracking it. Right now, like, he's on track to do it. And, and I think when you use all the tools, right?

Like that's, that's the key. We gotta, we have to adopt those tools. And my wife was asking me, 'cause she's just getting kind of sick of how much money I'm spending on, on things. And I'm like, "I, I have to work through these right now. I'm not gonna be that guy that's just gonna sit around and wait, uh, a- and to find out what it's going to be one day."

I, I feel like sitting around and waiting's not gonna be... I won't be around when, when it's figured out. So I need to be on top of it now. And quite honestly, I said I'm considering this [00:26:00] an education, 'cause I'm learning an awful lot every time I fail at something or every time I f- I find something different, I have to give up the last thing I was just doing.

And, and but it's interesting. There's so much going on right now, right? It's wild

Ryan Dino Interview: Well, you know, it's, it's interesting that you bring up Sean. I, I s- I've, I met Sean or heard Sean. I went up to the, um, Shayla Gifford's retreat, Slay with Shay, last year, and then I was actually in her coaching program, Catalyst, for a while. And I friended him on g- on Instagram, and I've kind of seen him, and I've...

What I, what I find

Dino Ryan Interview: you're old. I know you're old because you friend on Facebook and you follow on Instagram.

Ryan Dino Interview: Well, I've whatever, right? Like, I, I don't know, like it's very rare that I've got some, some, some Facebooking going on, but, um, it's usually only to find fellow old friends, right? So, um, but I think what's interesting, you know, and this is, uh, probably a good riff for, uh, [00:27:00] two mortgage company owners, when you start thinking about like the loan officers and the tools and the people that do one or two loans, and like the guys like Sean that are, that are doing 150.

You have like Shayla is... Just crushed it. Um, you just take a look at like the special originators across the country, right? And, and, um, you know, there's a part of me where, you know, I, I was not a coaching guy. I did not... I was like, I, I... In fact, the... When I went to Shayla's thing, that was like the first coaching deal I'd ever gone to.

And, um, you know, and I, we, I'd had some people come into Arbor every once in a while, but, like my take was, um, like the individual, right? The, the challenge, like you take a guy like Sean, like I don't think there's tools, like I don't think there's really gonna be anybody that can take the tools that Sean's using, and is gonna go out and do 150 million, right?

The reason why people are able to go do it is because of the pers- is like it's, it's the [00:28:00] person, and it's the, it's... And I don't know what the stats are in coaching and like how many people that go into a coaching program, and they go in and they actually do the work, they use the tools, and they go and they do it.

And I, and, and I will say that I, I think, I think it's these like incremental gains. Like when I was in, in the program, there were so many great tools that I was hearing about. Um, but even myself, like I have information sprawl. I've got base sprawl. I've, you know, I... But I do my best to try and write down my lists and do my top and cross my things off.

But it's like, um, I don't know, man. So th- I guess the point I'm trying to make is, i- is while these tools might come around, I, I don't know that the tool in the hands of every loan officer actually empowers them to, to be competitive still against the person that's willing to do the work, that's willing to invest the time, that's willing to, um...

Like I don't know that, that, that the level of [00:29:00] separation between top producer and middle producer and bottom producer starts to flatten because of the tools, right? That, that's--

Dino Ryan Interview: Yeah. I, I

think 

Ryan Dino Interview: I don't, know what that tool would be

Dino Ryan Interview: I think the tools are gonna help you do more volume, right? Because you should be able to do more with everything we have without having to keep adding bodies after bodies after bodies, right? Uh, and but I, but I think, I still think if we fast-forward, let's call it five years from now, we'll be making less money on a deal than we are today.

And I think that's what's gonna kill the originator that only does one or two, 'cause they won't be able to, to have this cushy lifestyle making very little on every deal anymore. And then I think we're gonna be forced into doing more deals just to be able to make the kind of money we're, we're accustomed to making

Ryan Dino Interview: It'll be interesting, dude. I, I actually, you know, I, I don't know, [00:30:00] I don't know where I sit on that. I, I, um... Because when it gets harder or when people-- 'Cause when the herd thins, right? Like it's, it's kind of like, um, you know, like 2008, right? Like, I remember 2008 happened and I s- opened up my shop and like all my friends were like, "Oh my God, are you okay?

Are you, are you in... You're in the mortgage business. Like, are you, are you..." And then like 2009, 2010, I didn't wanna tell anybody. I'm like, "There's like nobody in this business anymore, and there's like an $8,500 tax credit to buy houses, and the government is like buying rates down." There's like, I, my, like, there, like I can't tell you how many calls back then like, "Well, my loan officer I used to work with like left the business, Ryan.

So like, are you... Uh, I heard you're doing loans." I'm like, "Open for business."

Dino Ryan Interview: Damn right I am.

Ryan Dino Interview: that's right. So I, I, I, I think that wh- while I, I don't disagree that, that there's gonna be this shift and it's gonna be harder for those people that don't do a lot of loans, uh, that do the one or two. I wonder when the one or two go back [00:31:00] into the supply chain, how much that w- props up margins, you know?

But we'll see, dude. I, you know, it's... I think we're gonna have... The bottom line is I think whether we're doing more loans or whether at, at a little less margin or, or however, or maybe we're doing, we're doing more loans at the s- at, at the same margin. I do think that, that what is on the horizon from a technology standpoint is going to, um, it's gonna speed the workflow up and it...

And like I tell, I tell this to a lot of our originators. Like all the technology we design for them, right? It, the whole concept, right? Is, is around, in my opinion, of mortgage technology is like, it's, it's to create opportunities for you, to create conversations, right? At the end of the day, our job, if you're a referral-based loan officer, like you need to have conversations.

And I would bet you that Sean is having like 10X the conversations with people than anybody else is, right? Because he's got his c- he's so confident in his conversation that it creates, he's creating maximum opportunities on a daily basis, right? [00:32:00] Um, and so like the, the, when you start looking at then, okay, well, how does technology help me have more conversations to ultimately create more opportunities to ultimately have more loans?

Um, you know, and that's where like I think the only thing that technology is gonna, that can do right now is it can free you up for time, right? It can create more time for you. But ultimately, unless you wanna take advantage and have the conversation, I think that's where so many people get blocked because they, they're not willing to have the conversation.

Dino Ryan Interview: Yeah

Ryan Dino Interview: willing to, you know... That, and that is, that's where You know, I think you mentioned this earlier that, you know, if you go out into the future, I think the value of human-to-human contact, the value of real sales, of eye to eye, I think people are gonna be s- the AI is gonna get so overblown that people are gonna shun away from it because they're gonna be craving reality, and they're not gonna be able to trust anything they see, and the only thing they're gonna be able to trust is, like, the person like you and I that they can, like, either riff on a Zoom call or get out to a coffee and lunch and be like, "Hey, [00:33:00] like, like, are you for real?"

And like, so, so, like, the, the, I know that you're actually, like, a real person, and you're actually using a cognitive thought, and you're not going t- through some deterministic waterfall that's trying to outsmart me to get me to say yes to your deal. You know? That's not even the right f- that's not even right for me.

Um, it's interesting, buddy. I mean, we could, you know, it's a bizarro world

Dino Ryan Interview: I'm gonna, I'm gonna switch gears a little bit, but I'm, I'm gonna circle still, you know? Um, what about where the business comes from today, your, uh, your company, right? What percentage would you say comes from real estate agents, CPAs, financial planners, attorneys, and past clients? What's the biggest source?

Ryan Dino Interview: So, you know, I think that realtors still serve, um You know, I'd, I'd probably put realtors in that, like, 40 to 50% bucket, right? Um, and [00:34:00] then I think past clients are huge, and I think-- And this is where, you know, I, I guess circling into kinda, like, the technology front and what we... When I was explaining kind of the technology platform that we built, one of the, one of, like, the OGs back in the business when I got in was, I don't know if you remember Sue Woodard.

I remember, you know, it was the original Barry Habib. Like, I had, um, Mortgage Market Guide, right? And then you could, like, buy Sue Woodard's, like, contact program, and I thought that was, like, one of the greatest things I'd ever seen, right? It was-- But it was, like, on an Excel spreadsheet, but it was, like, this original roadmap of basically how to go deep in your database.

Like, how does one contact lead to, like, the realtor, the CPA, the financial advisor, estate planning attorney, all the way down the line to where you could just... As long as you just, like, work the system off the one, you can open the door down to the remaining, uh, you know, the remaining, like, power referral sources, like, depending on who in the, in the chain you actually started with.

Um, so [00:35:00] the way that the technology at our company is built is really built around that original concept of this, like, really deep, deep database, and a lot of the, um, engagements are designed for... You know, I love-- I, I really respect realtors. I res- you know, I, I like... You know, they serve, they serve a huge purpose.

Um, and this is no offense to them, but I will say that when there are clients that, like, a, a client that is referred to me by a realtor, um, is not necessarily in a high-trust relationship with that realtor, so that the referral, while I appreciate the referral, the actual, uh, trust level that that client has with that, that person is not at a level that they're not gonna shop me.

When I get a referral from, like, uh, my financial advisors, my CPAs, estate planning attorneys, right? They're-- Because the level of trust is so high, uh, there's, there's way less shopping. So, um, anyways, in a roundabout way to answer your question, realtors for our [00:36:00] pr- Because again, this is just market driven.

You know, at the end of the day, like, in a purchase market, we run, like, 70 to 75% purchase. The vast majority is coming from, you know, past clients looking to repurchase a home and realtors, right? Um-

Dino Ryan Interview: So, so let me, let me, I'm gonna, I'm gonna go, I'm gonna take you to where I was going, 'cause I thought that's what you're gonna say, 'cause that's, that's what it is in our, my business, our, our company. Uh, but, but here's the question now. In the next five years, how much do you think realtors will be affected with the new way of, of, you know, business, potentially doing business, right?

Will realtors be as needed as they are now? And, and where I'm going with it, just so you can know where I'm taking you, is if you say that they're not going to be as needed, the lo- but, but the loan officer is, right, the mortgage advisor, then my question is, is [00:37:00] if we get that much of our business from real estate agents, and they're not going to be as needed, what's that gonna do to our business?

And then, finally, where I'm gonna take you with it is, do you think that means, as business owners or as originators out there, that we need to start going d- direct to consumer and coming up with the playbook to do that more so, because my entire playbook, my entire career, was never go direct to consumer.

It was going after realtors or other professionals and making sure I did a great job on every single referral I had so that they would always come back and refer me to their friends. And that proved great, but I wonder what the future holds, because I can still get new deals, I can still do all that from past clients, but what about my largest referral source, realtors?

Will they be as strong of a referral source in five years as they are now?

Ryan Dino Interview: Yeah. So in five years, I'm gonna tell you 100% they are. Like, I'll, I'll, I'll [00:38:00] wager,

Dino Ryan Interview: You think realtors are still gonna be strong and needed?

Ryan Dino Interview: 100, hun- 100%, right? Like, I don't know, like, I don't know where, like, again, like, you- we're talking, uh, I mean, maybe, maybe when we're talking in certain pockets of the country where investors are looking to buy, like, new construction from, uh, like, who's buying homes unseen? And

Dino Ryan Interview: no, nobody's saying unseen though.

It's 

Ryan Dino Interview: So there's gonna have to be-- So, so, but you're gonna have to go see the house. So you're gonna have, somebody's gonna have to open up the house. Yeah, I'm gonna, I wanna sell my house. I'm gonna, I'm, I'm not gonna put it on the multiple listing service myself. And this comes in, the other thing too, when I talk about, like, when we start talking about boxes of, like, five years, right?

Um, again, and this is where I hate to be, like, the wet blanket on the, on the, on the, um, on the innovation stage. Because I, like, dude, I, I am, like, I can tell you right now, all I do all day long, like, I, I, is I'm [00:39:00] cod- Claude coding, and I'm, I've got, we've got two AI developers at Arbor. I, 9:30 every Monday, I'm on a t- I'm on a call with my dev team.

Like, I am as tech-forward as anybody in the, uh, independent broker space around. The, the reality is, is that we are in a hyper-regulated, lobby-fold-filled type of industry. So the, if, and I j- and so, like, when you start thinking about, like, the Department of Real Estate and wrapping your head around y- what are they, what they can't get out of their own shadow in five years, let alone rewrite the law, the, the rules to allow automated real estate transactions to be done, right?

Like, it's just not, it's, it's like, you know, you had the last big shockwave was, like, this, the change in the buyer, the buyer commission thing and all the rest of it, right? And it was gonna flatten comm- Like, has it done anything? It did nothing, right? So, so it's kind of [00:40:00] like, you know, what, where I, where I, where I see this going, right?

And actually, oddly enough, this was like, I picked this up from that same guy from OpenAI. Like, there's really, there's most likely gonna be some type of, I don't wanna conflate it too much. There's, but there's gonna be a quasi-revolt because the technology is gonna move to a point where it is going to, all of the things will be so efficient, but they will not be able to be implemented because the regulations will not move fast enough, or the people in charge will not open the doors fast enough because they're protecting all their cronies,

Dino Ryan Interview: Yeah. Yeah

Ryan Dino Interview: And, and so there's going to be this, and depending on you pick an industry where that's gonna happen first, I don't think it's gonna be in, per se, in real estate. Um, but there's, if, uh, and I'm, I, we won't do it now, but I would say to your listeners, I'd say if you want a very interesting, like, factoid to go research on your own, you could go ask Chat, Gemini, Claude, and go ask how many job professions in the [00:41:00] United States right now are protected from being automated You're gonna be shocked at that number because this isn't while, um, you know, people-- LLMs are new, right?

AI is not new. It's always numbers-based automation has always been in there already. And, um, there's a, was an amazing story that this gentleman had shared to illustrate this regarding the, the, um, labor union on the Eastern Seaboard on the sh- on the shippers union, right? That shut down, basically shut the economy down because they were gonna automate the ports And the guy said, "Okay."

He's like, "Well, there's gonna be nothing. We're shutting down the entire program." He, and he, I think he went on, he even made the States, like, "I'm the most powerful man in the United States and no one's ever, and no one knows my name." He goes, "I'm gonna shut down the entire country's shipping lanes, like w- in, in, in a phone call.

And, a- and unless, unless you give me what I want." And he did, and then it was like Armageddon, right? And [00:42:00] supply chain's broken, and they caved, and his jobs, they, now they're, you know, they've effectively put in policy regulation around automating their job. And artificially inflating prices, right? Because it could've been totally deflated with automation, and that is just a simple example of that piece.

And that-- So going to your question, realtors, dude, I think, now, and again, I, it's not that I totally disagree with the concept, but I think the timeframe, right? If we're, if we're going in five years, no chance. You look in 10 years, um, I don't know. Like, I think tangible assets, right? Like tang- large scale tangible a- asset purchases.

I think there's people will buy low rent cars and, and commoditize that. I think it's really difficult to do that in... There's so much emotion in purchasing homes. Uh, I, it's hard for me to f- to, to envision a world where, you know, you know, Sue and, you know, Sue and Bob don't wanna walk in the front door and actually look at the house [00:43:00] first and be guided with a realtor.

And then when you really dive into the regulatory, like responsibilities of a realtor, like all of the seller disclosures and looking at the house and the guts of the house and the seller inspection and walking it, like if, you know, there, there's, there's... It's not like it's a, a brand new widget.

Dino Ryan Interview: Yeah

Ryan Dino Interview: I, I think, I think we're good on that front, man.

And frankly, like I, I don't, I'm not in my lens right now for the future, like I'm not necessarily retooling, um, like I'm not necessarily retooling where we're going to get our business, where we're gonna get our business from. Um, but I also will tell you this, man, even if they did, like I think that we w- if, if we wanted to start, um...

And, and j- I'll just be full transparency, like we have a pretty decent, while we only hire referral-based loan officers, we get a br- pretty decent, a chunk of consumer direct leads that come through the Arbor site just off the, off the Google Review, [00:44:00] uh, program. Um, and then we also have a combo, you know, we have a combo real estate lending company in here, like a sub-brand DBA, Brundle, where we do real estate and lending.

And I do, I think like the Redfin Rocket thing is kind of like almost a, a kind of a better thing to cling onto. That's where I, that's where my head's at, is I think that, I think we really bring value to, especially in California with dual agency, we have a huge opportunity to be able to like offer real estate agents a better a better holistic option of being a realtor and mortgage partner.

And they don't need to go all in the mortgage woods, but they just get your NMLS license, we'll help you do it. I think that's, when I look out five plus years, I, I think there's gonna be more Rocket-Redfin combos, dude

Dino Ryan Interview: So that's funny. I, I, I, I'm, I'm with you on that one. I actually started Ethos Real Estate Group as well last year because of that same, same reason, right? I, I think that's, that's a smart move there. And, [00:45:00] and let's, let's switch gears now. Let's talk about some cool shit.

Ryan Dino Interview: Yeah

Dino Ryan Interview: You said something that sparked my interest, um, a- and you said you're tech forward, you're sitting there, you're, you're Claude coding, you're-- you got two AI guys.

Like, what are you guys building?

Ryan Dino Interview: So we gotta sign an NDA. No, I'm kidding. So, so what I, what I will, what I will tell you is that, um, the learning curve with AI development is, uh, it's been, it's been-- I mean, again, I'll tell, like I have been so like invigorated. I mean, I love our business, right? I've always... Anybody that knows me knows I love, I love what I do.

Um, but, and I love technology and like where things are happening right now, it's like electricity in the fingertips. It's like taking everything that you could envision that you wanted to do, but then had to get like it took weeks and weeks of describing it, iterations to come back, and it still wasn't close.

And now it's like I can [00:46:00] literally build it exactly how I want it, watch it change in front of me, and be like, "This is what it's supposed to look like," um, is amazing.

Dino Ryan Interview: the coolest stuff in the

world, man. Like, I get so jacked over doing that

Ryan Dino Interview: Dude, it's epic. Um, what I lear- what I, what I then what I learned was, is then at, at the, at the kind of the, you know, the, the corporate level was trying to say, "Okay, well how do I, how do we build like an AI strategy at Arbor?"

Right? And, um, you know, do we focus on one tools? Like every- we're like, we had like a focus group and like, "Hey, everybody wants like a guideline engine." Like, "Hey, I want you to go out and tell me where I could place my loan across all the guidelines and find me this or find me that." Well, we built one of those, and it was a disaster, right?

It took way too long, cost way too many tokens, but it was a great learning experience. Um, but then what we did is we started to empower our, our entire, um, operational, um, employ- like our operational, uh, [00:47:00] for- workforce with Claude Code, or not with, with Claude. And we had them, them start, we gave them some tips and pointers, and then we had them start like ideating a way around things that could help their job.

And then they started building artifacts, and they started building these tools, and it was, it was like amazing. And then we're like, "Okay, now we have all these tools. Well, now what?" So long story short, the, the, I think the cool- like the, the coolest thing we're building is actually really the scaffolding and the, and the macro like, um, what we call it the attic.

We call it the Arbor, the Arbor AI tool chest, okay? And that is where like we are going to be placing all of our customized Arbor skills, where we then like-- And whether those skills are, "Hey, I'm gonna sort and label documents. I'm gonna calculate income. I'm going to, uh, verify a CD. I'm gonna do all my steer and compare."

Like, um, if you look at our marketing department, it's like, "Hey, we're gonna do automated flyer generation. We're gonna do social, auto, uh, social media posting." Like, like every possible thing that [00:48:00] like all these other web apps in the world exist today that are nickel and diming us, you now have the ability to create those surfaces.

We put them up into this kind of like we, we had to build like a, um, we call it like the AI, our little AI factory. But, you know, you have to bring them in. You, we have to rank and file them based on cost, on time, on effectiveness, on, on-- I, I, I also say friction is like we have a lot of like, you know, you'll, you'll appreciate this, dude, like comp, like compensation, right?

Like the, your comp, your fricking, um, comp calculator, right? It's like we're still using, like we bought this, uh, we have LoanVision. We thought it was gonna be like the ultimate like, you know, answer to our comp needs

Dino Ryan Interview: Or that kind of money you'd think it would be

Ryan Dino Interview: Dude, and it's like... And I'll tell you what, you know what? You riff in Claude for, for two or three days and out spits the best commission calculator you've ever seen.

Dino Ryan Interview: Yeah, we built ours

Ryan Dino Interview: gotta wire-- Yeah. So, um- [00:49:00] It's hard to pin what, what, what I guess what I'm most excited about is actually building a sustainable and like, when I say scalable, cross-departmental scaled AI infrastructure, right? That actually, like can produce, can produce, um, tools and skills at scale across the organization.

And I've, the, I, I, you know, my, my, um, CTO and my COO, they'll tell you, they'll be like, "I, I basically am mandating I want every single job at this company optimized, and I want an optimized percentage where how well," and as we keep ideating and we keep going back on their job, like from a processor, from an LOA, from a funder to a shipper to everybody, like every single job they do, I want it to be optimized.

And then, and then once you think it is, we go back and you can keep-- it keeps feeding on itself, um, so that the Arbor context library that fills our AI platform [00:50:00] is constantly updated, constantly rich, and, and constantly then spinning off opportunity to, to basically to,

Dino Ryan Interview: Yeah

Ryan Dino Interview: to just optimize. Yeah. It's, dude, it's,

Dino Ryan Interview: Yeah, I'm, I'm so excited about that stuff. It's... What I, I was explaining it to a friend the other day, 'cause I'm, I'm trying to build what I'm calling EOS, it's the Ethos Operating System, and, and I'm like, "It's 28 years of knowledge that's finally coming out of my brain and, and coming to reality." And, you know, it was like should a person like me be doing all that?

Isn't it, isn't it better to hire somebody that does it, right? And it's like I got somebody that cleans it up,

Ryan Dino Interview: Yeah

Dino Ryan Interview: the reason why it's never worked, and I've spent way too much money trying to make it work over the years and it never works, it's because nobody has this, and I can't ever [00:51:00] explain it well enough and let them go and build it.

'Cause now I can just say it, build it, reframe it, redo it, build it, and then just keep going, and it's, and it's literally... The only thing I've found, the, uh, the way I like to explain it, and I'm better now, but the first time I tried vibe coding, I, I actually found out I, I did a pretty good job, like architecturally.

Like I built a, a pretty... Like I built a, I should say design-wise, I built a beautiful home, but when I walked in the front door and flipped up the switch, for whatever reason the garbage disposal was going off.

Ryan Dino Interview: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Dino Ryan Interview: So, so I've had to kind of get through that, but, but I, I hired somebody that cleans it up for me now. And, and he... Now, and now we've gotten to a point where it's like we've, we've started learning how to work with each other, 'cause it was a struggle for him too. He's like, "This isn't normal." I'm like, "I get it, but you know what?

It's how it has to be because you're not picking up everything I'm [00:52:00] putting down the way I actually want it," right? Like what I truly want. And, and I don't want the average of what... The reason why CRMs, I hate... I must... You said you're a CRM junkie, you know, or you used to

be. 

Ryan Dino Interview: I hate the word CRM. Like, uh, we call ours a command center, right? It's like, like CRMs are one-dimensional CRMs or two-dimensional, three-dimensional. It's like our, you know our business, it's like 10-dimensional, dude. So

Dino Ryan Interview: Yeah. Yeah. And, and what I've always hated though is, like, I, I spend so much money on CRMs that nobody ever uses. Nobody uses them. And, and it's like, you could, you could function off your cellphone, at least the average, you know, loan officer can. But at the end of the day, it's because there's way too many fields, and you just can't even, like, you, you can't...

Even if you learn how to use it, if you get out of it for five days, you forget where everything is afterwards. And, and I remember I was like, "Well, you know, we're custom building," right? And I'm like, "Not AI prior." And I'm like, "What [00:53:00] about the kids?" Like, we gotta have all the kids' names 'cause we're relationship.

Like, we're not, we're not lead guys, right, where we don't care about that stuff. I, I care about their kids and their dogs' names and all this stuff. And, and it's like, okay, but I don't... I go, "What if they have six kids?" Well, then we gotta put s- six fields. I'm like, "What if they have seven kids?" Well, then one's gonna have to go in the notes somewhere.

I'm like, "Can't we just make it where there's no fields, and if they have a kid, I just click a button and it adds one? And I click another one, it adds one." "No, it's, it's, doesn't work like that." I'm like, "Bullshit." Like, why? I hate that. So now we got a very clean CRM, right? Like,

Ryan Dino Interview: Yeah, yeah

Dino Ryan Interview: it's only when it involves something that it pops up and shows up.

Otherwise, super clean, 'cause that's all a loan officer wants, is they wanna be able to look at something, get a phone number, get an email, get a quick snapshot, and then quite honestly, you just ask, just like you would when you log into Cloud, right? You just ask it a question. Same thing. Go to this person.

You don't have to read through everything. Go through it, but all the [00:54:00] transcripts are there. All the stuff's there. All the emails are there. All the text message. And then you just ask your damn AI a question about it and let your AI go through all those fields, right? But no more fields, just a bunch. I love it.

Ryan Dino Interview: Yeah.

Dino Ryan Interview: It's exciting.

Ryan Dino Interview: Yeah, dude, it is-- I, I gotta tell you, man, and that's, um, you're on the right path. Like, I think one of the, um... It's funny, your analogy with the house, walking in the front door, that's, uh, that's kind of a, that's a big piece of it, right? Because the, the really, right, the, the, the key element of any, of, of any, call it database-centric platform, right?

So if we don't, if even if we wanna stay away from CRM, right, at the end of the day, right, it's just data. It's data management, right? And, and the data, the way the data moves between the sites, like when I... You know, 'cause whether I'm spinning up a site on Cloud, like w- okay, I'm gonna like use a Supabase or a Firebase on a proto, but when I'm going in and like we start [00:55:00] s- like speccing that out against the back end of like Arbor's, all of our stuff is in Azure, and we start looking at like, okay, you know, how are we gonna pull, you know, 'cause y- 'cause you think about loan records, lead records, contact records, right?

The, the data, the, the, the amount of data and the way it needs to go, and then I will tell you this will be, like as you continue to scale it out, right, this, the way that, like it's a-always a thorn in my side is like the way that you have all your, um, uh, access provisions, right? Like who actually gets in.

Like, okay, I built this for me, but then building it like, okay, well how do I have it-- I wanna scale across 50 people, so I need user IDs. They need to have their own databases, right? All that data segmentation stays in there. So, um, it's, dude, I will say I think, um... And I, our, my AI guy who, who w- the, the one that, um, he actually devved a, um, AI note taker up in Silicon Valley, [00:56:00] and he's super, super awesome.

He's like, "Man, we're in like the bottom of the first inning right now." Which to me is like, I was like, I'm like, "I thought we were in the seventh, dude." But so like it's, it's pretty amazing when a guy that's like knee-deep in it is like, "You think this is cool? Like we-we're just getting started." Right? So,

Dino Ryan Interview: Do you wanna hear something cool? Uh, it was my wife's birthday couple week- last week, and you know, I, there's been times where I've been super thoughtful and other times where, you know, I just go buy something, all that, and, and sometimes, like for Mother's Day she got kind of upset 'cause I bought her a pair of sunglasses from the airport on my way back.

Ryan Dino Interview: Hey, that still counts Yeah

Dino Ryan Interview: Well, that's what I said. I'm like, "They're fricking, you know, Louis Vuitton." No, it wasn't Louis Vuitton, it was, it was, uh, Tiffany sunglasses. And, and, and sh- she's like, "You're such a moron. You bought me that same pair four years ago." Like, oh, okay. [00:57:00] But, but it was her birthday, and, and I started trying to think about it 'cause I f- I epically failed for Mother's Day, right?

I mean, yeah, yes, they were expensive and they were nice, but she already had them. So epic fail. But I, I put some effort into this one, and you know what? You know, guess what I did for her? I didn't buy her a

damn 

Ryan Dino Interview: a webpage? You made her like a, a,

Dino Ryan Interview: I made... Her name's Lindsay. I made her, her Lindsay HQ, her Lindsay headquarter, and it's

Ryan Dino Interview: I love it

Dino Ryan Interview: it's got a calendar with like three different views, whatever she fancies, right?

A- and then it's integrated with Google, so it'll always be there. There's a ta- she loves tasks. She's one of those people, so task management. You can do sub tasks under tasks, lists. You can do all... You have confetti. There's, there's the regular tasks, there's the, the big rocks, right? The big wins, and you hit...

If you do one of those, boom, confetti goes off. And, and then there's a gratitude journal, and then there's, she loves like, [00:58:00] like her dream everything, right? And everything sh- she has, she's got this dream board now, and she can have all these different folders. Dude, the thing is so badass. It's

Ryan Dino Interview: That is awesome. Good. And is there like a, is there a pra- is there like a Praise Dino button where

Dino Ryan Interview: Damn.

Ryan Dino Interview: or like if something happens, you can send a little like, like you come up from a pit.

Dino Ryan Interview: I, I gotta have, uh, I gotta have fireworks for that one.

Ryan Dino Interview: Yes.

Dino Ryan Interview: Anyway, that's how cool stuff is. So all right,

Ryan Dino Interview: that's awesome

Dino Ryan Interview: I'm gonna start bringing this to an end. Uh, loved sitting here just going through all this stuff with you. I, I appreciate that, but let's bring it to an end. So last few questions.

What's your favorite book or maybe few books? I don't know if you're a reader or not

Ryan Dino Interview: You know, not a huge reader, but I wish I was. Like, I'll probably out myself. Um, you know, I was a big, uh, like Tom Clancy, John Grisham guy. Loved The Hobbit. But you know, my wife's an [00:59:00] author, so she wrote a book going back to Key West. Um, and that is, uh, you know, I think that's in the top of the list. It's coming out in September, so we've been...

It's kind of one of her passions, which is pretty cool

Dino Ryan Interview: Cool. And, and now for the big question

Ryan Dino Interview: Oh.

Dino Ryan Interview: I'm gonna pick you up, I'm gonna drop you off somewhere in the United States. You have all your knowledge. I'm gonna strip you of all your money. I'm gonna give you an allowance of just enough, right? You can't go hire guys to do stuff. You can't just go buy business. You can't put up a bunch of shit.

You're like, you gotta do it yourself, and you have to make a million dollars, and you can't talk or visit your family, your kids, until you make a million bucks. What are you gonna do, doing loans, by the way? Like, how are you going to make a million bucks as fast as you can?

Ryan Dino Interview: I think I already hit it. Conversations, buddy. [01:00:00] I mean, it's just convers- it's, it's, it's, it's output of loans is measured by the number of conversations I'm having with people. Like, I, um, I

Dino Ryan Interview: you don't know anybody. W- Tell, tell me how you're going to have conversations

Ryan Dino Interview: Well, so how much money do I start with?

Dino Ryan Interview: I, how much did you have when you first got started?

Ryan Dino Interview: I, well, I had a couple bucks. I was, I came out of Countrywide off, out of the greatest 10-year run of all times, dude. Um,

Dino Ryan Interview: Yeah, so you know, you have enough to cover your rent and, and food, and you can buy somebody food every once in a while, but that's it

Ryan Dino Interview: Yeah. So dude, so again, I mean, it's, it's going out, like I... Here's the deal. Like B and I, like B and I n- I'm joining a networking group. I'm going, I'm finding out where there's the largest groups of people that I want, that, that I could just get in a room to have... Where can I go to have the most conversations, right?

I'm gonna go to my old high... I like, I'll probably gravitate to, I went to UCLA, I went to Loyola High School. I'd probably centralize my efforts in LA because that's where I have my largest networking base. I'd probably go re- [01:01:00] just fire back through everybody that I've ever known since I grew up, which is exactly what I did, and I would start having conversations every single day, right?

Like, uh, 'cause it, I mean, hopefully, I think if you're in sales and if you run a business, you, you better be somewhat likable, right? And you sh- and again, like I said at the beginning, like you should have a story to tell, right? So I would've, you know, the first thing I'm gonna do is get a, I'm gonna get signed up with Arbor, right?

Or Ethos, right? So I could actually have good rates and have something to, have, have, have something to talk about, and then I'm gonna go spread the word and just have conversations. That's it. Like, people overcomplicate our business, you know? Like it's, they sit there, it's like I, they, they dream about, "Do you have this?

Do you have this? Do I have red or do I have this? Do I have..." Uh, it's like, dude, all you need is like, get a, like, one, you gotta know your business, but assuming you know what your, what your business is, up the effing phone.

Dino Ryan Interview: Yeah.

Ryan Dino Interview: Pick up the effing phone. Or you know what? Better yet, go somewhere, if you don't wanna pick up the phone, put yourself in a place where people are [01:02:00] and just start talking.

Dino Ryan Interview: Yeah

Ryan Dino Interview: that, that's it. Like, just start gabbing. I mean, don't have Tourette's and start blatting out weird shit, but like

Dino Ryan Interview: Cool. Uh

Ryan Dino Interview: like maybe you do. You know what? Maybe that would be my strategy. I'm gonna go to a McDonald's and be like, "Bluh, low rates. Bluh." Let's see.

Dino Ryan Interview: Oh my gosh, that's

Ryan Dino Interview: I'll get back to you next week and see if it worked, dude.

Dino Ryan Interview: So I agree with you, and, and I said it earlier too, I still think old school will win every single time over technology. I, I think it's that. You gotta get out in front of people. And my, my take is very simple. Use the technology to buy back your time so that you can go connect with people. That's it.

That's it. That's all it

Ryan Dino Interview: A- and I would say the p- and it's your choice. One of the things that we preach is the people you wanna connect with, if you wanna take back your time and you wanna connect and grow your business, do that. If you wanna connect with your family [01:03:00] and yourself and your health, do that. Like, be balanced, dude.

Take the ti- you know, that's, that's what, that's how you truly empower yourself using the tools, right? Um, so that's a great point, man

Dino Ryan Interview: I, um, I'll throw a book out just that I, I happen to be reading it right now, but it's called "Buy Back Your Time" by Dan Martell, and it, it's great. I, I actually do like it quite a bit, but I think that's, that's the key, and I'm just gonna relate it back to, to technology. It's like buy back your time.

Use it to be more efficient and more effective so that you're not... Your, your output is truly, you know, let's call it 70 to 100% all the time instead of just d- doing all these hours but only having a 20% output. It's, you waste your time

Ryan Dino Interview: Well, th- that output right is what creates the, um, 'cause why, if you dig into why don't people have the conversations, right? Because they're gonna say, "I'm busy. I'm too busy." Like, "Oh, I got... [01:04:00] I'm doing these things," right? So I think to your point, I think it's to, you know, you need to remove the obstacles that, that are your ex- are the excuses around actually having the conversations, right?

Why don't you go out to the event? Why don't you go out and talk to more people? Why don't you all those things, right? So I think-

Dino Ryan Interview: All right. That's it. It's done. Thank you for being on the show. Um, guys,

Ryan Dino Interview: dusted.

Dino Ryan Interview: yeah,

Ryan Dino Interview: Well, I'm not leaving, I'm not touching anything. I was instructed, I'm just gonna sit here, hang out, and just look beautiful for you for a few more minutes until I'm told I can,

Dino Ryan Interview: Well, if you're gonna look beautiful, you might, we might as well give you a little fleck or something. Let me get a little picture of, of the beauty.

Ryan Dino Interview: Per- perfect.

Dino Ryan Interview: Guys, thank you so much for listening, I appreciate it. Hey, um, in case you guys don't know, we are bringing season one to a wrap, and, and I had no intention of doing a season one or two, but hey, when a great idea comes your way, you gotta kind of execute on it, right?

Like, and, [01:05:00] and I have this great idea. So here's, season two is coming. Uh, what, basically what we're gonna do is every show, by the end of the show, is going to be a playbook. There's gonna be a, a, a playbook that you can download and actually execute on. So every show's gonna be mastered in a way that you'll be able to take it and go apply it to your business, 'cause our goal here is to help you grow your business, but not just so you can make more money and be more successful, but so you can also do it more efficiently, more effectively, and go back to your family so you're not a complete, you know, workaholic.

And I, you know, I don't know about you, Ryan, but, like, I got divorced once. All I did was work, and I learned my lesson, right? It's like you gotta have a little bit more balance. And I don't care how you cut it, I, I, 50/50 I just can't have, right? I, I, I work all day. That's just what I do. But I have to be smart enough to make time for my family and for my wife and all that.

And I'm not always great at it, and there's seasons for everything. But my hope for you guys is [01:06:00] that, you know, you don't fall into these pi- pitfalls, right, that so many of us have. Learn from everybody in the past. Learn from these successful people. There's better ways to do it. So love you guys. We'll see you next time, and look forward to seeing you guys in season two.