Branding That Works: Crystal Williams on Contractor Growth, Strategy & Accountability

Is your marketing all over the place—or all dialed in? This week, Jennifer Bagley sits down with Crystal Williams, co-founder of Lemon Seed Marketing and a lifelong contractor, for a brutally honest, high-energy look at what’s working (and what’s not) in the trades right now. Crystal shares battle-tested insights on branding, marketing strategy, personal accountability, and the crucial role of collaboration between contractors and their vendors.

From common marketing mistakes—like “buckshotting” Facebook—to actionable strategies for brand building and operational excellence, Crystal tells it straight. You’ll learn why strategy trumps tactics, what separates contractors who actually grow from those who stall out, and how embracing innovation (think: AI, automation, and new branding trends) can unlock your next level of success.

Whether you’re a small shop ready to scale or a multi-million dollar organization stuck in neutral, this episode delivers real-world advice that will help you own your market and move your business forward.

Timestamps:

00:00 - Introduction & Why Crystal Williams is a Standout in the Trades
01:33 - Crystal’s Journey: From Contractor’s Kid to Lemon Seed Founder
03:13 - Why Most Marketing Fails: Lack of Strategy & “Buckshot” Tactics
04:56 - The Vendor Dilemma: Social Media Myths & the Power of Owning Your Strategy
05:38 - Accountability: Why Some Contractors Win and Others Stall Out
07:43 - What Lemon Seed Looks for in a Great Client (& Why Size Isn’t Everything)
08:33 - Contractor Mindset: One-Man-Band vs. Collaborative Decision Maker
12:02 - The Real Role of Marketing Partners: Communication, Candor, and Problem-Solving
14:20 - The Shifting Landscape: AI, Google Search, and Keeping Pace
17:52 - Can Your Marketing Partner Care More Than You? (Short Answer: No)
19:19 - Perfection vs. Progress: Why Execution Matters More Than “Pretty”
23:03 - Smart Rebrands: Avoiding Pitfalls and Protecting Your Online Equity
31:26 - What Actually Drives Contractor Growth: Ops, Pricing & (Actual) Marketing
33:09 - Why Most Contractors Have No Real Strategy—and How to Fix It
34:53 - Daily Habits that Build Brand Presence Online
36:49 - How to Inspire Action, Not Excuses—And Where Crystal Says Contractors Get Stuck
37:42 - Personal Brand is the New SEO: Upcoming Webinar & Future Trends
39:11 - Connect with Crystal Williams & Lemon Seed Marketing

Guest Details:

Crystal Williams
Title: Co-Founder of Lemon Seed Marketing
Background: Crystal is a third-generation contractor and the “trade baby” behind Lemon Seed, a leading agency focused on contractor branding and strategy. With decades of real-world experience, she’s helped companies move from old-school operations to multi-million dollar, multi-trade businesses by building holistic brands, actionable marketing plans, and fostering real accountability. As a coach, speaker, and operator, Crystal is known for telling it like it is, pushing her clients (and her team) to do the hard work for profitable, sustainable growth.

Relevant Links:

• Lemon Seed Marketing
• Catalyst for the Trades Podcast
• CI Web Group
• The Opus & Golds Group

Enjoyed this episode? Subscribe to "The Catalyst for Trades" on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your preferred platform. Share this episode with aspiring and established leaders, and stay tuned for more insights on driving business success and personal leadership growth.

Transcript

Jennifer Bagley [00:00:01]:
What's up, everyone? I'm Jennifer Bagley, host of the Catalyst for the Trades podcast. And today I am so blessed. I have one of my near and dear friends, one of the most amazing experts in the entire industry, the Crystal Williams.

Crystal Williams  [00:00:16]:
Thank you.

Jennifer Bagley [00:00:16]:
From Lemon Seed.

Crystal Williams  [00:00:17]:
Ah, so nice.

Jennifer Bagley [00:00:19]:
I know. I love this woman. Like, we could just have a personal, like, moment. I believe you are one of the best humans and one of the most talented experts in the entire industry.

Crystal Williams  [00:00:31]:
Oh, my gosh. I was just telling somebody about you today. Like, everybody wants to yuck your yum right now about how you feel about AI, and I'm like, hey, homegirl is owning this and rolling with it. So I'm like, y' all haters, but for sure. So thank you for the kind words. It's my little East Texas Southern side that comes out. It's area per people. Jen.

Crystal Williams  [00:00:51]:
Yes, I know, I know.

Jennifer Bagley [00:00:54]:
Oh, my gosh. Right? That's okay. That they will shortly follow. Yeah. So this isn't about me. This is about you. What are you noticing in the trades right now? I know you guys, you guys have a unique perspective, right? You have an amazing perspective because you get to see how a massive amount of contractors work that are working with various strategies, working with various tactics, working with various industries, and you're trying to kind of wrangle the troops, get some alignment and direction.

Crystal Williams  [00:01:23]:
Definitely my monkeys and my circus right now. Absolutely. So. Well, thank you, y'. All. A lot of your listeners may know or viewers may know. Some may not. So I come from the industry.

Crystal Williams  [00:01:33]:
I'm a contractor by heart. Trade, baby, is what I call myself because I grew up in this industry with a grandfather, a dad, and a brother that literally old school, running a good H Vac company. We added plumbing five or six years ago, multimillion dollar company in rural East Texas. And so I know the life of hiring and pricing and retention and all of those good things. We, We've rebranded, we launched a mascot. We went brand first. We've opened Greenfield in new locations. So we.

Crystal Williams  [00:02:04]:
I have lived the life that contractors live. And in 2018, my brother came to me and said, hey, you've been doing this for a while. Help me hire an internal marketer for McWilliams and let's start running your own company here. Pick somebody you want to do it with. I had a very dear friend that is a master graphic designer and visionary, Emily Fliniken. She is everything that I am not. So I'm a big, like, visionary, dream big. She's very much like, this is how we're actually going to do it.

Crystal Williams  [00:02:34]:
Such an eye for building holistic brands and very underrated in the industry. I keep trying to put her out there more. She is a rock star, a force to be reckoned with. So we kicked off Lemon Seed together in late 2019, just in time for Covid, the new C word. But what we get to do, I say that every single day is work with contractors that really don't have a strategy. They have a good digital vendor, maybe they have a good idea of what they want to do, but no actual strategy to get it done. And it is definitely the missing piece of the puzzle.

Jennifer Bagley [00:03:11]:
Buckshots don't work.

Crystal Williams  [00:03:13]:
Yeah, just throwing wet noodles against a wall, you know, Jen, you know what I think? I think a lot of contractors are really good technicians that wanted to go work for themselves. So they, they know enough to be dangerous and they use Facebook as their North Star. So they're like, hey, who's having good luck?

Jennifer Bagley [00:03:32]:
Who do I market my business?

Crystal Williams  [00:03:34]:
Yes. And I'm like, oh my gosh, rip to your inbox, you know. Well, and the thing is, it's like Facebook is a really, well, social media is a really unique tool to give exposure to lots of things, but you yourself have to sit in what is your actual truth and like, what is your actual way that you could actually integrate in, implement some of these things? So, you know, and I'll be honest, I'll be the first person to tell you, I work with several digital vendors at Lemon Seed because again, we are not a digital company. We're a branding agency and a strategy agency. So we are brand strategist. Okay. How do you build your company? How do you grow? Well, so the digital side of that is a part of the puzzle. And I'll be honest, for every person that hates this digital or dislikes this digital provider, I can give you 10 that love them.

Crystal Williams  [00:04:22]:
If you think you got screwed over, I can give you 10 that you change their business. Yeah, right. So, like, it is so one sided on social. People are looking for confirmation and they're looking for some people just like controversy, like how much these people wake up every day looking for a way to be controversial. But my biggest advice to contractors that are watching or listening here is, hey, you've got to live your brand, your market, your budget, your strategy. And if you're just going to look at what everyone else around you is doing, you're going to miss things that you probably need to be doing.

Jennifer Bagley [00:04:56]:
Yeah.

Crystal Williams  [00:04:57]:
To give you a unique piece.

Jennifer Bagley [00:04:58]:
Yeah, I would agree with that. I think there's a piece to this. You and I have talked about this before, but you also need to be frickin accountable. Like at some point in time, I can take two different companies, as can you, and we can tell you we can predict the future without AI.

Crystal Williams  [00:05:15]:
Absolutely.

Jennifer Bagley [00:05:16]:
The way you handle your business and yourself. Right. Those who show up to the table, show up, suit up and participate. Okay, those who. We actually changed our pricing model. I actually have a higher fee now for those companies who won't commit to playing their part. So they have two different options. They can choose the lower fee.

Jennifer Bagley [00:05:38]:
And the lower fee is if they're going to show up to meetings, we don't have to track them down. They're going to attend trainings, they're going to read their reports. They're not going to be disappearing. I don't got to track them down. Like I'm looking for my kindergartner after school on the playground. I'm just being real, you know.

Crystal Williams  [00:05:57]:
Well, I, I was telling Emily the other day, you know, my business partner here, I said, you know how I can tell if a contractor is good or not? How, how working with them is going to be good is how quickly they book an appointment and sign or decline their presentation from Lemon Seed.

Jennifer Bagley [00:06:12]:
And so onboarding.

Crystal Williams  [00:06:13]:
And onboarding. Right, so.

Jennifer Bagley [00:06:15]:
Correct.

Crystal Williams  [00:06:15]:
So if Lemon Seed is not the right fit for you. Some people do not know how to get out of the conversation, so they just keep making excuses. But some people will have a whole presentation, love it, ask good questions, and then never follow through. But every once in a while I'm gonna say like 1 out of 20 that we present. We're running like 60 close rates right now, so I present it 60 of the time. So they're gonna come on services with us once they see what Lemon Seed offers. But there are a few of them that really get, really get pumped up and, and start immediately. They, they get off the call with me and they open that presentation, they sign that thing within 24 hours.

Jennifer Bagley [00:06:57]:
Yep.

Crystal Williams  [00:06:57]:
There is no, like, I need to get with Bob, who's going to get with Sue. I gotta look at this, I gotta look at that. They're like, nope, I want it. They might ask some clarifying questions, but honest to goodness, if I go back and look at our most successful contractors, it is the one that we're not afraid of making hard decisions. So listen, Lemon Seed is not super cheap. I feel like we're, you tell me all the time y' all are too cheap. But we're, we try to Be affordable for all size of contractors. Today I did a call with a different type of vendor that was wanting to refer Lemon Seed to one of his clients.

Crystal Williams  [00:07:28]:
And he's. He said, well, what revenue do you like to start at? I said, I'll be honest. I can start. I more care about the style of contractor that I'm working with than I do about revenue.

Jennifer Bagley [00:07:36]:
100.

Crystal Williams  [00:07:37]:
You might be a million dollar contractor right now, but, buddy, you're on your way to five hot and heavy.

Jennifer Bagley [00:07:41]:
Yeah, let's go.

Crystal Williams  [00:07:43]:
You like, hey, I've got money.

Jennifer Bagley [00:07:44]:
I've got time.

Crystal Williams  [00:07:45]:
I've got. I'm intentional. I'm ready to go. I will. Let me see you. Come on. Come on the boat. You're welcome on the boat.

Crystal Williams  [00:07:51]:
Right now I'll also get a $5 million contractor who's been in business 40 years just now got to $5 million because we got to go ask a whole committee when we can go to the bathroom. And so I'm like, you're going to go ask a whole committee about, hey, I need to buy three extra graphic design hours this month to get a new brochure. Why we got to ask so many people? Like, don't you run the company? Are those people signing these payroll checks? Because the last time I checked, they probably weren't. And so I get riled up for contractors because I just want to encourage them to own their marketing journey. Own it, show up for it. It is not a set it and forget it style. If you're doing that and you're having success, great. But imagine what you could do if you gave it any energy.

Jennifer Bagley [00:08:32]:
Yeah, 100%.

Crystal Williams  [00:08:33]:
So, so much opportunity for these contractors. And I love them. I'm. Excuse me. I'm passionate about meeting contractors where they are. So if you don't know if your brand is good, let's talk. If you don't know if your strategy is good, let's talk. I'll be honest.

Crystal Williams  [00:08:48]:
I. I use this all the time. I'm all about unification. Okay. Like Boston family sounds like, yes, but meaning, like you. The best thing and the biggest differentiator around Lemon Seed is you keep your existing vendors as long as they are performing. You don't have to change vendors. Lemon Seed is a facilitator.

Crystal Williams  [00:09:08]:
So the reason that I'm set up that way is Jen. I can talk to people that I'm like, okay, your cousin is doing their website in their backyard. But you're super interested in AI and you want to be super fast forward. I'm going to say you Know what? Let me introduce you to CI Web Group. Here's a good connection for you to talk to CI about your all your AI dreams right here now. Yeah, but then I meet a contractor who is scared to spend $100 and, and I'm like, okay, you know what? You're not quite ready to hit the gas like that. Let's do this. Let's a two year strategy.

Crystal Williams  [00:09:40]:
Year one just get here is a simple company that will help you get very basic things in place. And then when you feel better and we, we can layer on then eventually you want to get to these more innovative agencies and things like that. So everybody has a little bit of a different strategy and it requires us to look at them in a different way.

Jennifer Bagley [00:10:02]:
Yeah, I agree. And this, this is, this is the challenge and this is what I love that you guys do is most of the time companies are either buckshotting Facebook and asking all the wrong people for the right advice and not giving any context, not giving full truths, or it's spring and fall and we're attending conferences and getting sold to from every angle. Listening to some. Yep. Sell their wears and tears from the front of the stage and we're like, that's it. That's the solution. Right. But what you guys do, and we believe in the same philosophy is this requires a war room discussion before we start making decisions on anything.

Jennifer Bagley [00:10:39]:
Like you got to have partners. They're going to sit down, they're going to have a conversation. And I think I would say this, like as a contractor, you need to start being really transparent and honest with your vendor. Stop blowing smoke. I'd really transparent, like stop the bs. We can read through it. We've seen thousands and thousands of scenarios. I know if have 200 visitors to your website.

Jennifer Bagley [00:11:01]:
You didn't do $8 million in digital marketing.

Crystal Williams  [00:11:04]:
Well, I said on top. Listen, don't BS a BSer. No, like I'm master of like I can fluff up a good conversation if I need to. But no, you're right. And you know, you said something earlier like making the meetings, I get cracked up. I was talking to a potential client the other day and this is exactly how he starts the sales call off with hey, so I really don't want to have to like meet and stuff. Like I just need y' all to do it. I need y' all to do it.

Crystal Williams  [00:11:26]:
So I was like, hey, so same. You know what I need you to do is like do it. Get a good average tickets, book every call sales system. So now that we both need each other to do it, we still have to meet and talk about doing it, so. Because listen, no matter what you do, even if you have an internal marketer, you're going to have the opposite problem. And I'll get to that in a second. But really, what you need when you partner with the right marketing taxi company, like a yes or. Or a fractional CMO style company like Lemon Seed, is you have to talk to them on a regular cadence just for keeping your pulse.

Crystal Williams  [00:12:02]:
Because what looks. What I can see on paper is may not be what's happening. You also know things like, hey, my csr, that's a rock star, she's pregnant. So she about to have a baby in October. So you know what we need to be planning about? What the heck are we going to do there? Hey, my best installer fell through a ceiling today and broke his back. You know, what can we do? Hey, I'm moving from selling technicians to comfort advisors. Or on the roofing side. Like, I'm wanting to branch out into commercial roofing.

Crystal Williams  [00:12:29]:
Okay, well, your vendors, your digital, your direct mail, they're not roofing. Yeah, well, that or they're not psychics. So they don't automatically know that on a random Tuesday in your bathroom, you made a decision. Like if you meet with them on a regular cadence and you make a plan to say, let me update them. What are things I can update them on? It's our job to know the marketing.

Jennifer Bagley [00:12:50]:
Right?

Crystal Williams  [00:12:51]:
It's our job to know where you should pivot. Pivot. Where you should pull. That is why I got. I get a little crazy when y' all don't meet with your digital vendors. Like, how are y' all not talking to them about what you need to see differently?

Jennifer Bagley [00:13:02]:
And then you want to know why it's taking a long time.

Crystal Williams  [00:13:04]:
Yeah. So I'll. My family's pest control company is with CI Web Group. We love. Sydney is our rep. And. And Sydney might hate to see me coming sometimes because I'm gonna say, hey, explain this number to me or what? And so you know what their answer is? Let me look at this. Or this is why we did it this way.

Crystal Williams  [00:13:21]:
They. I'll be honest, I think they crave good conversations. It's nothing wrong with challenging your digital company in a healthy, healthy tension is sometimes a really good thing. What I don't like is just like, they're failing. And I'm like, okay, well, show me the last Intersect, you know, conversation that you had with them. And they're like, oh, I haven't told Them yet. Okay, so for three months we have that. You're not seeing any calls come through.

Crystal Williams  [00:13:46]:
What if something's wrong with the number? There could be something easily broken like, and they would not know.

Jennifer Bagley [00:13:51]:
They.

Crystal Williams  [00:13:52]:
As much as we want to say this, I say this too. Vendors, digital companies, all of us, we are all okay, out to make a living, okay? So we can't slow stunt our growth as a company so that we can have this one on one attention where I only look at your account every day. Okay? I have a lot of intentionality with my clients and we, we definitely control capacity, but sometimes things just fall through the cracks. That's why it's a partnership.

Jennifer Bagley [00:14:20]:
It's also, it's also not a static objective. It's not a racetrack that spins in circles and nothing changes. It's a racetrack where every single road routes off. It takes a different path. Now it says turn around, right? You're dealing with an environment that's changing all the time. Your competitors aren't static, they're doing new things. The search results aren't static, they're doing new things. Now you have AI search, now you have Google.

Jennifer Bagley [00:14:44]:
You have differences in ad dollars, right? The technology, all the technology around you is shifting constantly. And it's not just going to work. It requires two people coming to the table, but both more than an appetite. You got to be equally yolked. They can't care about your business more than they do, right? You got to work on hard, hard challenges together. Like you gotta solve problems together.

Crystal Williams  [00:15:07]:
And the good news is, is you have each other. Like, this is what I. The other day too, again, another client conversation or potential client, you know, and he was just so frustrated. He's like, there's just nobody to bounce ideas off of. Like, I have these great ideas, but I don't know how to make them happen, right? Or they'll call me and say, I got this new logo from whomever, my friend, this other company, whatever. But I never did anything with it. I've had a new logo for a. Yeah.

Crystal Williams  [00:15:30]:
Shot jbt. I've had a new logo for eight months. And so I'm like, well, here's how we're going to implement it. This is what we need to do. And then this is where they branch off. They are either like, oh yeah, let's do it. I believe in what you're saying. Or they're like, well now.

Crystal Williams  [00:15:45]:
And I'm like, sir, for eight months you couldn't get this launched, but now you want to question us people that do this every Day. People that launch brands. Literally every week we are launching new brands. We know what works. The problem is most contractors don't want to do what it takes financially or time or put someone in the right place.

Jennifer Bagley [00:16:04]:
I remember talking to my dad about starting my own business in my early 20s, and he said, it's gonna suck. So if you're gonna go into it, suck it with a smile and find your advisors.

Crystal Williams  [00:16:14]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Find your. Find your advisors. Right? And let me tell you, like, so when Lemon Seed first got. Got started, I remember the first time a client left me. Of course I was devastated. I was like, what in the world? Like, I. I couldn't believe this.

Crystal Williams  [00:16:29]:
And they were just like, yeah, you pushed me too hard. And I. I was like. And he was like, no. Like, I just realized I'm not willing to do it. Like, I. I'm not willing to do it. And I was like, you know what? If I'm going to lose somebody that's fair, make it be that I'm just not the right fit.

Crystal Williams  [00:16:44]:
Because I push you too hard. And listen, my team, they get it natural from me. I push them. They push you. You know, because marketing, I say this a lot.

Jennifer Bagley [00:16:52]:
Why do you hire a personal trainer? Do you hire a personal trainer?

Crystal Williams  [00:16:56]:
Not. Give me a Dr. Pepper.

Jennifer Bagley [00:16:57]:
Right, right.

Crystal Williams  [00:17:01]:
Hey, if you do 10 more sit ups. Yeah, 10 more sit ups. And here's a Dr. Pepper.

Jennifer Bagley [00:17:05]:
You like it? What are you paying for, right? You got a goal.

Crystal Williams  [00:17:08]:
You.

Jennifer Bagley [00:17:08]:
You're bringing on a coach. That coach's job is to hold you accountable. And. And you got to show up like, you're not going to get to your goal if you don't participate.

Crystal Williams  [00:17:16]:
It's not going to listen. No. And I coach my team like this. So y' all know. You know, my brother still has the heating and air conditioning and plumbing side. My sister runs his pest control side. My. One of my really good friends runs the roofing side that my husband and I are part owner in.

Crystal Williams  [00:17:29]:
And, you know, I'm watching them every single day. And so I am a contractor, so I built lemon seeds, processes around knowing what contractors need. And one of the first things I realized is that contractors are not like my brother or my sister, where they put their head down and hustle. They really kind of want things handed to them on a silver platter. And I'm always like, man, that's called a job.

Jennifer Bagley [00:17:52]:
Yeah, well, with a job description and an SOP and a lever to pull, yes. It's not entrepreneurship.

Crystal Williams  [00:17:58]:
No. And I can't care more about your business than you do. Right. So I always look back and I'm like, man, my brother was very, like, operationally driven. And so he trusted the marketing processes. So, yes, he approved, like, overall budgeting spend and. And overall concepts like big campaigns that we were going to come out with. But he could freaking care less about the color of the flower on a graphic inside of a newsletter.

Crystal Williams  [00:18:23]:
But listen, I got clients who will hang up a whole newsletter getting sent out over the color of the technician's shirt on a random Tuesday in the bottom of an email. And I'm like, we are. Our focus is wrong. Your focus is wrong. Like, I want contractors to look up and look out at what's coming. What are you doing? Trust the professionals, have a strategy in place, and then put those vendors, put your digital vendor in the right space. I promise. I promise it will change the game when you start communicating like that to all of your vendor partners.

Jennifer Bagley [00:18:53]:
Yeah, I agree. I also think we're sitting in this kind of chasm that is on this. This trajectory that if you are slow or if you are overly focused on perfection over production, you already lost. You already lost. I mean, this is. We're in a. This is a game of speed and velocity.

Crystal Williams  [00:19:19]:
Perfection. Yes. Perfection is the enemy of progress.

Jennifer Bagley [00:19:24]:
Yes.

Crystal Williams  [00:19:25]:
Because we will. We will hold things up. You know, you're in paralysis by analysis. Right. And you're just overthinking it. And so a lot of times we get in our own way. So just like with branding.

Jennifer Bagley [00:19:37]:
Right.

Crystal Williams  [00:19:37]:
So Lemon C creates brands. We create three new looks for you to look at in the first step. Well, we do a calibration discovery call, and then we do what we call a calibration call. Like, are we on the right path? Then? We're going to put three new looks for your company in front of you. Whether you're changing your name or not, it's going to get three looks. And honestly, on that call, people will be so excited about something. Like, oh, my gosh, I love the owl. It's fantastic.

Crystal Williams  [00:20:01]:
It's a killer. Blah, blah, blah. And then they go and they sit on it and they're like, oh, man. But what if nobody likes the color blue? What if someone's offended by an owl?

Jennifer Bagley [00:20:10]:
And what color should the eyes be?

Crystal Williams  [00:20:12]:
Yes, you have overthought this. So when we started the pest control company, my brother comes to me and my sister, he's like, hey, I'm starting a pest control company. Tiffany, do you want to do it? My sister was like, yes, let's go. So Tiffany and Her husband are the operators. My husband is their marketer. And so we run deep over there, right? Well, the very first thing we did before we sold the very first maintenance contract was we went and got a logo, we built a mascot, we got a jingle, we wrapped all of our trucks, we started social media and then we went to work. Website. Then we went to work.

Crystal Williams  [00:20:44]:
I called CI Web Group and said, hey, I have a company don't even exist yet. And then when CI came back to us and said, hey, we're updating to web flow. What do y' all think? Limit. Sorry, Spoton. The name of our pest control company had nothing to lose. So I was like, hey, I want to be an early adopter. So I was like, hey, Sydney, sign me up, sis. Like in the new cat, the new Catalyst program, I'm looking right now to figure out how we can work that into our budget because I want to be front.

Crystal Williams  [00:21:09]:
We are forward thinking now over here on the H vac and plumbing business. A whole different ball game. Right. Ton more revenue. Right. Multi million. A lot more at risk than. That's that.

Crystal Williams  [00:21:21]:
Spot on. So it just takes a little bit more calibration, but I can't sit back.

Jennifer Bagley [00:21:24]:
And that's like moving the Titanic.

Crystal Williams  [00:21:26]:
Yeah.

Jennifer Bagley [00:21:27]:
That's also part of the. Part of the benefit of what's happening right now is the larger companies are a little slower to pivot on some really big, really big changes. So it's making it easier for the smaller companies to get a head start on AI search.

Crystal Williams  [00:21:41]:
Yeah. And I'm like, listen, is it here right now? You know, I'm give y' all a Jesus reference. But, you know, everybody thought Noah was crazy. And still until it started to rain, right? And then everybody was like, oh, okay, homeboy been building the boat. Right?

Jennifer Bagley [00:21:54]:
And are you calling me crazy?

Crystal Williams  [00:21:56]:
I think other people handle that for me, Jen, but I will wear that crown. Well, here's the thing. Like, you could be like everybody else. And I'll be honest. I've always said this about CI Web Group, and this is not a commercial for y', all. But it goes to my point here. If you want innovation and you want to be on like a good roller coaster ride where you're constantly like, what's next? What's next? Like, you're pumped up. That is a CI Web Group way of life.

Crystal Williams  [00:22:21]:
It takes special contractors to get there. Those of you that want to be forward moving and innovative and you're here for it, then you're welcome to buckle in. Some of y' all are Going to be buckled in, but with one strap and then you're just like flying, flying loose. Yes. And so my point here is though, like, is a lot of you are that type of contractor, but you have allowed something to cause you to be very hesitant, so hesitant to change your brand. Like what ifs. I cannot live in the what ifs. Stop building your life around the outlier things.

Crystal Williams  [00:22:54]:
Right. So. And I do not think that CI Web Group has totally abandoned all of the basic things, the basic knowledge that they have.

Jennifer Bagley [00:23:01]:
This is about faster.

Crystal Williams  [00:23:03]:
Well, this is about enhancement. Right. So there's a school of thought there and I have to have admiration. That is the brand that CIY Group has put out there. Innovation, forward thinking, all of those things. And so at least y' all own your lane. Everybody else, like, y' all's too busy trying to change lanes. Yeah.

Crystal Williams  [00:23:19]:
I'm like, listen, there's a hundred of y' all doing that. There's only one group that's really causing ruffles and waves around this. And I'm here for it, you know, people. But honestly, I can't be accused of fear mongering around branding like those of you that have red and blue brand. You're a roofing company with a roof. You're a heating and air conditioning company with a fire or a flame or a snowflake, you're a pest control company with a literal bug. Hello. That's not different, that's not new.

Crystal Williams  [00:23:45]:
You're blending in and someone's going to blow past you. Maybe me.

Jennifer Bagley [00:23:49]:
I. Yeah, buddy, I think so. One of the things, like if you were going to apply pressure and so slow down to make an astute decision because data tells you you need to. There are instance when instances when that is critical. This is one thing that I absolutely love about Lemon Seed and your approach to branding. You don't do it willy nilly. You actually consider the technical implications of what could happen with the domain change. Right.

Jennifer Bagley [00:24:21]:
And there are some that are not looking at that at all that are just out there willy nilly. Let's change everything. Let's lose 30 years or 20 years or 10 years of effort and traffic and backlinks and brand and everything else. Let's do a full rebound, switch the URL. I love the fact that when we're talking about rebound situations, we're going, all right, let's go see how much the potential risk is of changing a URL. Can we fit a rebrand on a URL that already exists or is that too big of a risk? Do they have the financial ability to optimize and maintain new brand, existing brand. That's their current lead source. You guys, you guys apply pressure and think through things tactically when it is absolutely necessary.

Jennifer Bagley [00:25:06]:
And I love that it scares you. Island out over there with rebrands.

Crystal Williams  [00:25:10]:
Well, you know, I'll never forget this. We had this really good idea of a rebrand for a client. Loved it. And I called you and was like, hey. So I just knew you were going to be like, yeah, girl, we can fix it. We're going to do all this stuff. So I was like, hey, got this thought. But I said, they're really worried about it.

Crystal Williams  [00:25:24]:
I'm not as worried about it. And you're like, oh, no, they should be worried about it.

Jennifer Bagley [00:25:26]:
I'm like, dang it.

Crystal Williams  [00:25:27]:
Because the pretty was going to be detrimental to the actual. Right? So you can look pretty, but you are, you are. Every dollar that you've spent for 50 years is truly wasted if we go this route. So you have to lean into how do I make the best foot forward? We Lemon Seed has never been about the right now, everything is about forward thinking, marathon style approaches to marketing and how it compounds on itself. And so, you know, it's very important to us that we give solid and wholesome advice that is not backed by what benefits Lemon Seed, which everybody says that. But at the end of the day, I can still sell you a rebrand package and do it the right way. And I can speak hard truths like, hey, we, unfortunately, we don't need to change your name. I would love to, but if we change your name, these are the implications.

Crystal Williams  [00:26:19]:
Do you want to move forward with this? It's your company. So I love that we are very complimentary to our contractors. I also think that we are one of the few companies, there are several, but we are one of the few companies that authenticity on who you are matters in what we design and what we bring out for you. So, yeah, and I'm only on the back side, right? So Emily and her team are on the actual graphic design, the scale skill set behind choosing colors and designing fonts and kerning and placement and all those important details. I'm on the other side of implementation. So literally, they hand me this pretty new brand in a pretty little box. And then me and my team of strategists, we go strategize on how you need to go to market with that new look. And sometimes I'm like, I would much rather go to market with this new look, this new name.

Crystal Williams  [00:27:08]:
But what are the implications And I have this terrible situation. This client called me and they were like, hey, we were 50 years old. 50 years old. And they changed their name, changed their logo and everything and it tanked them.

Jennifer Bagley [00:27:22]:
Oh, I've got, I've got hundreds of those that have called me in tears, crying because it's demolished their business.

Crystal Williams  [00:27:29]:
They're like, shouldn't have changed our name. We were hesitant at first. We just got sold on it. We got told it was this or nothing. We just felt backed into a corner. And, and I'm like, listen, you probably weren't backed into a corner, but I know on a creative agency they're hungry to be creative. And what makes the difference is Lemon Seed turns around and we're, we love the creativity. Like that's what fuels us.

Crystal Williams  [00:27:50]:
But at the end of the day, like my contractor heart knows, how the heck do they live with this? When the confetti settles. When the confetti settles, they gotta live with this. They've got to feed people, they've got to have one work. They have to have things that flow in for them. And when I just set them up with something pretty like it dang near like, I'm like, okay, are you sure you're ready? Are you sure you're ready? You know, now name changes can be good when you can protect what you've built or, or you are intentionally sliding away from that so you know you're in business. I'll tell you, this is why it's important to get a good brand at the get at the get go.

Jennifer Bagley [00:28:29]:
Yes.

Crystal Williams  [00:28:30]:
So it's never too late. It's never too late. But there is a perfect time. And I'll tell you, with spot on pest control is, is the best example. People thought we were nuts. I was like, well here is a, you know, ten thousand dollar brand build out that we did in a five thousand dollar mascot, like full parade quality mascot, a jingle, a 3, 500 jingle that we had created or whatever it cost a new website build. So I was telling my Brother I needed $50,000 before we even sold the first maintenance contract. And he said okay, yeah, you know why? Because we knew we piecemealed it out with McWilliams as we were building it.

Crystal Williams  [00:29:05]:
And my dad was a very big visionary for marketing. Before marketing was cool. McWilliams was the first to market with wrapped vehicles with maintenance plans. Those of you that are ever been carrier dealers, we were Texas toughen it before Texas stuff was cool. Right? We were doing that. We were, we wrapped, we built a jingle 28 years ago our jingle launched and it's the same jingle and people sing it because we're not comfortable till you are. I mean, and now people like you hear it all the time. But there is, there is something about partnering with people that really understand the true implications of implementation.

Jennifer Bagley [00:29:40]:
Yeah, I would agree with that. I think that stretches further than just marketing, digital and everything else. I love the fact that we see eye to eye on this is bigger than just the front end of the supply chain. This is also, if we do all of this and you're not priced right, your price books set up incorrectly, your technology's not on par, you're not answering calls after 5pm, you're not giving consumers the option to book online, you don't have processes like all the operations with.

Crystal Williams  [00:30:07]:
AI right now there's zero reason not to at least have an AI for answering service. Okay, like zero. If you're worried about customer experience, what do you think's worse? You not answering or them getting a robot?

Jennifer Bagley [00:30:17]:
Right.

Crystal Williams  [00:30:17]:
Come on now.

Jennifer Bagley [00:30:18]:
That is always. I have such a hard time with this. Literally I'm like 100 of nothing's nothing. Your Google business says you close at 5 o' clock and no one's answering your call or it's going somewhere in Singapore. Stop it.

Crystal Williams  [00:30:28]:
Yeah, or I got home at 5:30. What? I'm sorry that I didn't call you during office hours, you know. Yes, yes, but how's that going to.

Jennifer Bagley [00:30:35]:
Work when you order your Uber and they're like, sorry, I had some other things. I had to pick up the kids from soccer. I'll come get you five hours later.

Crystal Williams  [00:30:42]:
Well, and you know, I pre scheduled my Uber the other day in Vegas. I was staying at Harris and I was like, man, I got to be at the airport. My flight was an early flight, 5am So I pre scheduled my Uber at 3:40 in the morning. And as I was walking out there I thought I hope he's here. But you know, on the app I got the hey, I'm here, I'm a little early. And I was like, thank God for being able to do this yesterday. Like I was in between calls, I jumped on the app, scheduled my Uber driver. Like that is where.

Crystal Williams  [00:31:07]:
And listen, I'm 43. It didn't like I'm, I'm not 50 I guess yet. I'm well on my way to it, but I'm not 25. But I'm not bad. Well listen, and you go to Yalls house and everything is electronic, everything's moving and turning on and Off. I'm like, I'm not. I'm not advanced to live here enough, you know. But there is.

Crystal Williams  [00:31:26]:
There's three ways that your company is going to make money and grow. Right. Operational excellence, being priced fairly and competitively, and marketing. Those three things have to be staples of your focus as the owner, contractor.

Jennifer Bagley [00:31:41]:
Yep.

Crystal Williams  [00:31:42]:
As the decision maker. Those three things. Culture, retention, all of the details. Yes. But honestly, when you look up from your desk, am I priced correctly? Am I expecting and looking for operational excellence and am I investing in my marketing strategy fundamentals? Those three things. Yes. Everything else, I call that the foundation. Right.

Crystal Williams  [00:32:01]:
Everything else is icing.

Jennifer Bagley [00:32:04]:
Yeah. It's like basketball. You got to be able to dribble. You got to be able to shoot a free throw. Need to do a layup. Anything else? Don't start dunking.

Crystal Williams  [00:32:11]:
Yeah, yeah. Don't be an alley oop.

Jennifer Bagley [00:32:15]:
Stop all the fancy stuff like get the fundamentals down and then we can start adding on from there. My dad used to tell me is a disaster.

Crystal Williams  [00:32:22]:
Yes. You know, my dad used to tell me because I was a pitcher in high school and I was always like, let me throw the change up. And he was like, hey, how about we throw a fastball really good first? Right now you're throwing a semi fast ball. Throw a really fast ball and then the change up will come. And he said, because Crystal, at the end of the day, like, it's all about. It's all about the fundamentals being right. Learn how to know. Shoot a layup before you're trying to alley oop 100%.

Crystal Williams  [00:32:46]:
You know, learn how to just do a regular passing play before you're doing all these trick plays, you know?

Jennifer Bagley [00:32:50]:
Yeah.

Crystal Williams  [00:32:51]:
And. And I just say this all the time to. To people that'll listen. Honestly, I. What? 90% of contractors have zero strategy. They have a good plan. And I know this feels weird, but so they. They've partnered with c.

Crystal Williams  [00:33:09]:
CI Web group and they're spending money over there and they're working with somebody to do their social media and they have a postcard that kind of goes out and they're with marketing pro through service titan. So there's some emails going out, but you know what they're missing? Like no one's actually bringing it all together so that it works in tandem. And it. What it does is it exponentially compounds on itself. When your brand is hitting and you're building brand awareness, your digital is going to actually perform a lot better. When your digital is performing better and people are seeing you more then it naturally Makes people engage and trust you more, which makes your follow up newsletters your cool people. Right. They want to do it.

Crystal Williams  [00:33:47]:
Which increases your social media following. Like, this is. It's not rocket science, but it is a little blind faith at the beginning.

Jennifer Bagley [00:33:55]:
Yeah, I just did a in the Just Start AI community this morning. Well, 30 days ago, I took two companies and challenged them both to follow a process. So we took them and we were like, all right, we're going to do daily blogging for both companies. You guys are going to start at the same time. What I need you to commit to is every day you're gonna glance at the blog post. You're the subject matter expert. You don't need to read it, glance at it. You're going to record a one minute video and you're going to post on your social media about that blog post.

Jennifer Bagley [00:34:26]:
That's all I want you to do that for 30 days. One person has executed that every single day. The other person fell off like a week ago. The difference in impressions. The difference in impressions, they Both started at 0. First week they were both at 100 impressions on the blog content. Second week they were at 300. Third week, one went up to a thousand and the other one stuck at around 500.

Jennifer Bagley [00:34:53]:
We're on the fourth week and I just showed the numbers. Billy from Integrity is about to hit 20,000 impressions per blog post on his fourth week blog post, and the other one's still sitting at 2300. That was only because of one tiny little thing, right? Was I want to edit the blog post before I record the video. Leave it alone. The videos for people. The blog post is for AI search. It's for Google search. No one's going to sit and read a 3,000 word article on heat pump installation.

Crystal Williams  [00:35:25]:
Not gonna happen. Know the intent, know the intent of those articles is. I call it crawlability, because that's my little non digital word.

Jennifer Bagley [00:35:32]:
I like that.

Crystal Williams  [00:35:33]:
I'll take that. Well, here's the thing. Contractors make this so hard. So this is what I tell them. If you are not the person, if you are not the person that's going to go make these daily videos, then who on your team is? Is it a CSR that you're going to give a $500 stipend to every single month. Hey, if you make these videos every single day for me and post them 500 bucks a month, that'll pay a car note for some people, that'll pay an electric bill for some people, and all I got to do is do my regular job. And shoot this one video. And I have the calendar of content.

Crystal Williams  [00:36:07]:
I could sit down and make a lot of them in one day. I just need to post them in one day.

Jennifer Bagley [00:36:11]:
I'm like, you're busy being busy. That's called the rocking chair syndrome. Right? I'm busy being busy. I don't have time for that. Listen, you got to go to the bathroom. Put the sticky note next to the toilet paper. That sticky note says, glance at blog. You gotta walk back to your office or your truck.

Jennifer Bagley [00:36:26]:
Grab your camera. You're holding your. It's in your pocket. You had your phone. You were normally scrolling while you were sitting. Whatever.

Crystal Williams  [00:36:32]:
Yep.

Jennifer Bagley [00:36:32]:
Take it back. Record it. If you don't like how you look on video, then don't go to meetings in the house anymore because you look the same, you sound the same. It's you, baby.

Crystal Williams  [00:36:41]:
And tell the truth, you woke up and walked out of the house like that.

Jennifer Bagley [00:36:46]:
I look the same. I sound the same. You know, my arms are stuff.

Crystal Williams  [00:36:49]:
Yeah, well, they'll be like, I don't like the way I sound. I'm like, well, that's like a whole everyday problem. Yeah, well, I'll kind of. I'll kind of wrap us up with this. I think that contractors that are really ready to grow are also ready to be intentional. And they're really. They're ready to invest in both time and money with good vendors, you know, like Lemon Seed, like Sia on innovation, on creativity, and building this personal brand. You and I are doing a webinar together on September 18th.

Crystal Williams  [00:37:23]:
I'm pretty sure as I'm listening, thinking through this today, I'm pretty sure it's September 18th. So you'll be sending out messages. I'll be sending out messages. We are doing a webinar. If this doesn't go live by then. But check our social medias. But, you know, we're doing it over how personal brand is. Is helping.

Crystal Williams  [00:37:40]:
Is the new SEO kind of vibe.

Jennifer Bagley [00:37:41]:
Yeah.

Crystal Williams  [00:37:42]:
Right.

Jennifer Bagley [00:37:42]:
That's big.

Crystal Williams  [00:37:42]:
So it. That's. That's where this is headed. So if you're afraid of cameras and all that jazz, like, unfortunately, maybe your seat in your company is changing and you need to put someone at your table that is going to run for.

Jennifer Bagley [00:37:57]:
Ready to lead.

Crystal Williams  [00:37:58]:
Ready to lead. Absolutely. Absolutely.

Jennifer Bagley [00:38:00]:
If you are showing up to your meetings with your camera off, do you go hide underneath the kitchen table when you're sitting in the house or under the conference room at your team meeting?

Crystal Williams  [00:38:12]:
That is pretty funny. Do you hide under the coffee table in the house?

Jennifer Bagley [00:38:15]:
I'm Just curious.

Crystal Williams  [00:38:16]:
Do you holler? Holler is the East Texas word. Do you holler from the A driveway? That's a good point, yo. Yeah. Yeah. Well, Jen, keep being CI Web group. Keep doing your thing. Stay. Stay encouraged and stay focused.

Crystal Williams  [00:38:32]:
Because again, like I said, everybody thought Noah was crazy till it started to rain. So keep doing. You guys. Thanks for having me today.

Jennifer Bagley [00:38:39]:
I love you guys. Thank you for being amazing partners. Thank you for leading the industry, and thank you for saying it like it is. I noticed you're getting more bold over the days.

Crystal Williams  [00:38:47]:
I am. Only because I sat by you that one day and I was like, oh, my gosh. At that manufacturer show, she stands up and was like, hey, most of y' all don't even need to be worried about this because you're not. And I was like, can we be that bold? Okay, I'm. I am encouraged. Time out.

Jennifer Bagley [00:39:02]:
Yeah.

Crystal Williams  [00:39:03]:
I feel like I have been freed.

Jennifer Bagley [00:39:05]:
You brought the mama out of us.

Crystal Williams  [00:39:07]:
Yes, absolutely. Absolutely.

Jennifer Bagley [00:39:09]:
I need a little bit of that in our life.

Crystal Williams  [00:39:11]:
I know it. But, hey, I would love to visit with anyone. Hello, @lemonseedmarketing.com visit me online lemonseedmarketing.com find me on social media. Crystal Williams with a C. And I would love to talk about it. Whatever you want to talk about, let's do it.

Jennifer Bagley [00:39:24]:
I would encourage you guys, like, take a minute. It's an hour of your time. Book time with Crystal. It's important, you guys, when you fill out those onboarding forms with CI Web Group and it's like half ass and empty, and that's because you're not sure where you're quite headed, but you're like, I don't know. Just figure it out. The difference is, when we're working with Lemon Seed, we're getting a full strategy, beginning to end promotions, target market, audience, brand avatar.

Crystal Williams  [00:39:48]:
We know what we're doing.

Jennifer Bagley [00:39:49]:
So you're going to get a lot better performance if you have them in your corner and on your side.

Crystal Williams  [00:39:53]:
Thank you. Thank you so much. I appreciate it. All right, Deuces.