#54. C is for Courage-and Clarity: Mastering the Conversations That Change Your Life

             “You miss 100% of the shots you don’t take.”   Wayne Gretzky

What if clarity doesn’t come before change — but through courageous conversation?

In this episode, Sari explores why we avoid important conversations, how our nervous system responds to emotional stakes, and why courage is the gateway to clarity. Drawing from neuroscience, Mel Robbins’ activation tools, Seth Godin’s insights on bravery, and real-life stories from students, parents, and business leaders, this episode offers a practical framework for navigating uncomfortable conversations with confidence and compassion.

You’ll learn how to regulate your emotions, speak with intention, and co-create solutions — whether you’re talking to a teacher, employer, roommate, client, or loved one.

Because the conversations we avoid often hold the clarity we seek.

 What You’ll Learn in This Episode

•  Why “hard conversations” feel hard (and what your brain has to do with it)
•  How fear activates the amygdala and blocks clarity
•  Why courage must come before clarity
•  Seth Godin’s perspective on bravery and resistance
•  How Mel Robbins’ 5-4-3-2-1 rule helps you take action despite fear
•  A simple C³ framework for courageous conversations
•  How to speak with curiosity instead of defensiveness
•  What to do when conversations feel tense or unresolved
•  Why most people regret what they didn’t say more than what they did
•  Journal prompts to help you prepare for your own meaningful conversations

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Transcript

Why We Avoid Hard Talks

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hey, welcome back. Welcome back to Just Count Me In. I'm Sari. I'm your host, and this week we're going to talk a little bit about clarity and clarity through conversations. During this week, it's come up a lot in my coaching and even in some of my tutoring, and even in my own life. So I thought it was something that we should address because clarity isn't something that we just find before the change. It often comes through the conversations that we actually avoid. There's a really big difference between talking about what we wish we had said and actually saying it. Today we're going to go a little bit deeper than change. We're talking about courage and clarity and conversations to make them real. It's happened to all of us that we've dreaded or put off a difficult conversation. We're going to talk about neuroscience, we're going to give some activation tools and insights from Seth Godin on bravery and hesitation. And I'm going to give you a step-by-step framework that you can use today, plus reflective questions that you can journal to like get a little bit more courage going in your courage muscle. So this past week I mentioned, and I don't know whether it's because we're coming up on a full moon, but I noticed a pattern. I coached a student who needs to start putting down her pencil and picking up her hand and asking questions. And she's afraid, afraid that she's gonna look stupid. I coached a business owner who is nervous because she's getting ready to meet with her employees about some cell phone usage policies. And also a college student who has a roommate who has really crossed a lot of boundaries, and that's another difficult conversation. I've talked to parents and children who need to have conversations with each other around some pretty emotionally charged topics, and these conversations need to happen. And then to top it off, a cherry on top, I have my own uncomfortable conversation with a client about expectations for cancellation and payments. So nobody's exempt from this. And I realized something. I was thinking, like, why do we call this a hard conversation? I hate all these labels, and then I use them, but the conversation itself is not really hard. It's because our emotions get involved in it, and we are worried that we're going to get rejected, or somebody's going to get angry, or we're going to be misunderstood. Our emotions make it feel risky. We can and we absolutely have to talk about what that is and why that is and how to do it better to keep this transformation going in our lives and stay in synchronicity with ourselves and our changes. So, why do we actually avoid these conversations? I was, I mean, some of it is obvious because we get into situations where we're gonna feel judged or we're gonna feel like somebody thinks that we're stupid or we're not really sure, or we're afraid, we're afraid of rejection, we're afraid of anger, we're afraid of abandonment. Then two parts of our brain are competing. There's the amagdola, that's our emotional alarm system, and that reacts first. Whenever there's emotion involved, that reacts, even with emotional memories, that trumps whatever else is going on in your brain. And it doesn't wait for logic. It senses a threat, reacts, and that's why our bodies can get tense and our stomach gets in knots sometimes. It's hard to say what we need to say. Our throat can even, we can even get choked up and have to clear our throat a lot. And I think it all is, these are visceral reactions that we have when we're having a hard time speaking up. And then our mind starts going off, or mind does anyway, on these worst-case scenarios. The good thing is we also have a rational brain, that prefrontal cortex, that wants to speak and wants to clarify. It's that executive function, wants to connect. And the trick isn't to try to force logic over emotion, it's to navigate both because we have both going on, whether you want to admit it or not. Marketers and thinkers like Seth Godin, and I like him a lot, talk about bravery. Um, it's very relevant the way he talks about it because he reminds us that courage has nothing to do with the absence of fear. If you think about the bravest people that are famous even for their bravery, it's not that they didn't have fear. Not a one of them is gonna say that they didn't have fear. What they did have was courage. And it was just the right time for them to say something about it. Maybe like Rosa Parks didn't wake up that morning and say, Oh, I'm gonna do something that's gonna change civil rights for people forever by refusing to give up her seat on the bus. She had wanted to refuse to give up her seat many times. This day she was just too dang tired. And she said it was just the right time, and she was tired of being treated that way, and it just came out. She gave it really no thought. And then the job for the um the march got the rally got handed over to Martin Luther King Jr. And he was a 26-year-old pastor, and he said if he thought about it, he probably would have said no, but he just went for it. So a lot of times we just have to remember that we have to act even when fear crops up. And Seth's work on permission and connection reminded me that communication is not really a transaction. So I'm gonna say that again because we think it is, but it's more like a relationship. So, in other words, clarity is not delivered to us. We co-create clarity through dialogue. You don't wait for the perfect moment because there won't always be one. You show up, you speak, and you listen. Before any conversation that we are nervous about, we come up to some resistance. And Mel Robbins, I love her 54321 that she gives. I listened to that book and I thought that was a rip. It was a great book, wonderful philosophy, and it's really, really simple. You just start the countdown, 5-4-3-2-1, and then do it. So you're nervous about texting your boss or your professor, start the countdown when you hit to one, blast off, hit send, knock on the door, open up your mouth and start talking. Because she thinks and has done the research to show that if you can just count it down, you're activating the prefrontal cortex and calming down your emotional center, and you can just take action and do something about it. This isn't some fluffy kind of motivation, it interrupts hesitation and it brings your brain on board with where you want it to be. So it's it's one thing to identify that we know that we need to have conversations and to deepen our relationship with people and improve our lives. We have to do it. And yes, sometimes they're gonna be hard, but I'm not just gonna leave you with that. You're gonna be like Sari. So, what am I supposed to do? So, here's a framework, the C3 conversation model that I've been using with people, and you can use it anytime you have to have this kind of conversation. I call it clarity, communicate, and co-create. Actually, that's four C's. So, clarity is like being really clear on your intent before you speak. So, your journal prompt could be something like, What is my desired outcome? What am I afraid of? What's absolutely the worst that could happen? And then C is communicate with curiosity and balance. You have to balance. We did something when I was teaching, um, we were trained in cognitive coaching and we used the seven norms of collaboration, and we balanced inquiry with advocacy, and we had to stop and think because to tell you the truth, I was spending more time in advocacy. I was spending more time advocating, trying to make myself right, trying to make somebody else right that I believed in than I was actually being curious as to what the other person was saying. Often I was just waiting for them to finish saying what they were going to say because it didn't even matter what they said. I knew what I was gonna say. And I'm embarrassed to say that, but I can tell you proudly, it's been a long time. I have not done that in quite a while, but I did have to learn, and it took a lot of practice. So communicating with curiosity looks like you listen before defending. You ask open questions, sincerely open questions. Like help me understand what you're thinking, or what made you say that, or how does that feel, and really mean it. And if you don't mean it, then maybe you shouldn't be in this conversation, because then you should just be creating rules and mandates. Conversation is a two-way situation. So you're because you're co-creating, you're co-creating, and you can explain to them, you know, in my mind, this is what I'm saying, you know, and build some solutions together and say, this is what I'm hearing you say, and you know, am I clear on this? Am I correct on this? And it's not about perfect language, it's not about that at all. It's more about shared meaning. The relationship is important enough to you, whether it's a professional level or a personal level, that you're having a conversation and you're a little bit nervous about it, give it some respect and try to co-create with the person what the conversation is and what the outcome is. So here's what it could sound like. So I want to talk about something. Are you open to a conversation? And be prepared. Very often, in my experience, it's no, they're not at that time. So you need to wait. You know, I wouldn't put it off too long because if it's it, and actually, it would depend on the circumstance. If it's something that needs to happen that you're really having a hard time with personally, I would say, well, let me know when there is a good time that we can schedule. So let's get it on the calendar. Because the person could just be having a bad day. They could be feeling totally overwhelmed. You could be the third person that told them that you needed to have a conversation with them today, and they wouldn't even be at their best to talk, or they could there could never be a good time for that conversation, in which case I would use the 54321 launch. Then you can say something like, Well, I've noticed that blank, when blank happens and I feel blank, whatever it is, and I need blank from you because I really value our relationship. Right? So, how do you experience this? Right? So I notice that you get defensive when I ask you to help around the house, and I feel really resentful that I'm doing all the work, and I need some cooperation, I need some participation from you, so I feel like it's shared, and our relationship is really, really important to me. So I don't want to feel resentful, but we need to get something worked out that we both feel good about. So, what feels right moving forward? Okay, and then just say, you know, what feels the most peaceful moving forward. That structure keeps the conversation from becoming a blame game, it keeps it functional and it keeps it respectful. There are some common pitfalls. I know you're probably saying, yeah, that's right, you say that, and maybe it works for you, but I can just tell you right now it's gonna, if I go to my boss and say this, or if I go to my 15-year-old and say this, or my child and say this, that this is what's going to happen. So let's just take a look at them. So there's definitely some common pitfalls, and I'm gonna give you some realignment strategies. It's not that you ever get derailed. I just had this conversation with somebody. She said, every time I do this, it gets derailed by my employees, and I feel derailed. And I said, then you need to build stronger guardrails because you can get knocked a little bit off track, but definitely nobody should get derailed. I mean, unless there's some kind of catastrophe that goes on in your life or a disaster, do we get derailed? You can get a little off track, but you need to build stronger constraints, stronger supports for yourself. Pitfall number one, they get defensive. If someone gets defensive, you can feel it, there's a rise, they think that you're just trying to be right and you're not trying to hear their point, maybe, or maybe they're guilty, guilty conscience needs no accuser, right? And you can just say something like, ah, okay, this is really bringing up really strong feelings for you. Can you just help me understand a little bit of what you're feeling? Okay, pitfall number two, which also happens to me. You freeze up, and it used to happen to me a lot more than it does now. I I didn't used to freeze up. I used to cry. It was so funny almost in a way, because we would have say, okay, we need to have a family meeting, and we'd have we'd start our family meeting. Within five minutes, I would be crying. They'd be like, There's mom crying again at family meeting, right? So that was just my emotions getting in the way. But you could also just totally freeze and feel like whatever I say is gonna be wrong, which is just an excuse to not try and be vulnerable, but it's still freezing. Use the activation tool, just take a beat, count down, and return to your intention, not fear. Like, why is this important to you? What do you actually want? Is the relationship important? Is the job important? Is your child's relationship with you important? Is your parents' understanding of this situation important? Is your understanding of the content in the class important? Is it important that your boss hears your point and gives you your raise? I mean, we have to have conversations, brave conversations that are labeled now, all the time. I mean, somebody's baby dies or somebody's husband dies. Do you know what to say? Absolutely not, other than maybe how much you care. So do you not pick up the phone? Do you not take action when they're hurting like that just because you're not gonna be perfect when you say something? No. No. You do your countdown and you pick up the phone, or you do what it is you need to do to initiate some kind of communication, just that you're there, that you're not always gonna have the perfect words. So pitfall number three is clarity. If there's not clarity after your first try, clarity often comes through continuous dialogue, okay? And the first talk is data. It's like you're gathering data, you're not really failing. Okay, you're maybe discussing and not coming to a resolution about it. And we used to say, are we moving from discussion to dialogue or dialogue to discussion? Are we trying to resolve something or are we just kind of clearing things out? And that can help, okay? But don't take it as a failure if we need a little bit more dialogue about this. Here are some journal reflection questions because I really want to get you thinking about this. Let's take just a moment. If you have the time now, if not, you can always come back to this when um when you do have time, or just think these questions. What's one conversation that I've been avoiding? And where is one obligation that I feel like is draining my energy that's calling for a boundary to be set and a conversation to be had? Do I have an obligation that's draining me? What emotion do I feel when I think about it? And what outcome do I actually really want? What would one small action be that I can take today? What would it feel like if I had clarity on this? How would it make my life better? So this week, I'm gonna challenge you. Pick one courage conversation and commit to the three actions. They don't have to be big. The goal is momentum. Okay? You can even draft a text with like a clear intent statement, like it's some kind of paper you're writing, if you're really nervous about it. You can use that 54321 to get yourself to press that button or send that email or pick your hand up or clear your throat and say, I've got something to say. Are you available to talk? I really need some clarity on this. And you can practice that C3, or now we're calling it the C4 model in role play. You can practice it, you can practice it with a friend. I do that all the time. Bravery is like a muscle, and clarity is the reward of your repeated practice. That is what gets stronger. Hard conversations are not evidence of weakness. Not every conversation is going to feel ease and flow. I wish I could say they did. Many do. I prefer the ones that do, but sometimes, just like we talked last week about if you didn't catch that episode, it was about how obstacles come up and things kind of get in your way. And really they're they're just holding up a little flashlight to something that we need to clear in our lives to increase the capacity that we have to hold the goodness that we're calling in or the change that we want, they're definitely not evidence of weakness, they're evidence of growth. And being vulnerable is the only way to get through them. Because if you're not and you're just spewing a lot of words at people, they're going to know. When we really speak with honest intention, when we listen with true curiosity, and when we actively co-create clarity with another person, it's a beautiful thing. We change not just outcomes, but we change the world around us. And our relationship is better because of the conversation, even though it was hard. Courage is not the absence of fear at all. It's the decision that something else matters more than giving in to the fear. Go have the conversation and tell me what you learned. Please count me in. Thank you so much for joining me today. If this episode spoke to you, I'd really love to hear from you. You can find me on Instagram or on my Facebook page, just count me in. And if someone came to mind while you were listening, please share this episode with them. Sometimes one conversation can change everything. Thank you for being here, for choosing growth, and for doing the inner work. I look forward to being with you again next time. Remember, we're all in this together. Hit that subscribe button. Just count me on.