What It Means to Be Relational: Safety, Connection, and the World We Can Create Together

What does it really mean to be relational — beyond simply having relationships?

In this episode, I explore what it means to value connection, belonging, and collective safety in a world that often prioritizes hierarchy, control, and individual success. Through an Imago- and nervous-system-informed lens, we look at how relationship itself can be a pathway toward healing — not only in our personal lives, but in our communities and the broader world we share.

This conversation invites a shift from “power over” to “power with,” from certainty to curiosity, and from dysregulation to dialogue. Drawing on polyvagal theory, I reflect on how we are not isolated nervous systems, but interconnected ones — constantly shaping and being shaped by one another. When safety breaks down for one or many, the impact ripples through the whole system.

Rather than focusing on blame or ideology, this episode centers our shared humanity. It asks what becomes possible when we understand violence, polarization, and disconnection not only as moral or political failures, but also as signs of collective nervous system wounding — and when we respond by creating safety, not more threat.

This is an episode about relationship as a foundation for real and lasting change.

In this episode, we explore:

• What it means to be relational, not just relationally skilled
• The shift from hierarchy to mutual, relational connection, as supported by Imago theory
• How polyvagal theory helps us understand interconnected nervous systems
• The idea of a collective nervous system — and what happens when it’s wounded
• Why fear and unsafety fuel disconnection and dehumanization
• How violence can be understood as a nervous system response at scale
• Why peace doesn’t require agreement, but does require safety
• How relational presence and dialogue create conditions for healing

This episode is an invitation to slow down, soften certainty, and remember that every moment of connection — however small — contributes to the world we are shaping together.

If you and your partner are ready to co-create the roadmap to the relationship of your dreams, join us for the next in-person "Getting the Love You Want" Weekend Couples Retreat! 

For support in how to have deeper connections and better communication in the relationships that matter most in your life, follow the host, Trish Sanders on Instagram , Bluesky or LinkedIn.

Transcript

Welcome And Today’s Focus

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Hello, and welcome to the When Depression is in your bed podcast. This episode will begin to explore what can happen when we move away from hierarchy and towards relationship in our homes, in our communities, and in our world. Through an Imago, a nervous system-informed lens, I will take a look at how safety, co-regulation, and connection are not just personal needs, but rather the very foundation of collective healing and peace. I'm your host, Trish Sanders, and I am delighted that you are here. Let's get started. In the last episode, my husband Ben came on as a co-host with me for the very first time, and we were talking about Imago relationship therapy, which is something that I certainly have talked about many times on the podcast over the past year. But it's something that's very important to Ben and I because it was through Imago work, both with an Amago couples therapist as well as through attending the Imago Getting the Love You Want couples workshop, that he and I were able to navigate through our separation and make the conscious choice to recommit to our marriage. And that was over a decade ago. So Imago is something very special to me personally. And it's also something really significant to me professionally because at that time, when Ben and I decided to recommit to our marriage and I saw what magic it had done for me and him, I also started bringing it into my office and ended up getting certified as an Imago relationship therapist myself. And I began working with couples. And so really Imago transformed my life personally and professionally. And it's something I've been wanting to talk about on the podcast more. But because it is a relational concept, I've been waiting to talk about it at least in greater depth when I was being able to talk about it with somebody. So I'm pretty excited that that somebody is, of course, my husband. And we will be having dialogues, Imago intentional dialogues on future podcasts starting in just a few weeks. And the Imago intentional dialogue is the primary tool or skill that is used in Imago work. And you will learn a lot more about that really soon. But I realized that I wanted to talk on the podcast more about Imago work in preparation of Ben and I having the dialogue. And certainly there is invaluable information in Imago theory and also in the skill of the dialogue itself. And I will absolutely get to sharing about all of that. But something that I deeply love about Imago, in addition to the skills and the resources that it provides for people in relationships, in relationships of any sort, as a matter of fact, intimate partner relationships or parent-child or even coworkers or friends or any relationships you might have in the world. What I truly deeply love about Imago is that it is more than just theory and skills. It's actually a way of being in the world. Imago is a movement in support of helping change the vertical structure that we really live in, this top-down power at the top, powerlessness increasing as you go further down the line, to a complete paradigm shift, moving towards becoming a relational society. And being that this concept of being relational is central to Imago theory. And also it's something that deeply resonates with me and how I experience the world and how I understand the world. And given that we live in a time right now, globally and nationally in the US, where there is so much conflict happening. And in Amago, we say conflict is growth trying to happen. And conflict is really caused when there is difference, and fear can be created when somebody else thinks or acts differently than you do, and we don't understand. And this can elicit a survival response and it can start to become us versus them. There can start to be this idea of winners and losers, the haves and the have-nots, the people at the top of the hierarchy with the power. And then again, like I said before, those at the bottom of the hierarchy that have very little to no power at all. And I think in these times where there is explicit global violence and such extreme polarization, such a feeling of people being on one side or the other. I think the concept of being relational is absolutely imperative. I think it's hopeful. And I really think that it's the way we heal, the way that we can change what's happening in a way that actually works for everyone involved. As I mentioned, as we know, right now is a time of explicit violence. And when I say explicit violence, what I mean is that violence is visible to everyone. It's on the news, we know what's happening, it's frequent. All of us really can see it. We might have different thoughts about it, but it's visible. And violence has been a part of our system and our structure and our society forever. It has not always been as visible to everyone as it is now, though to some people it has been very known and very felt. And this is nothing new at all, what's happening in our world. And so I want to make that very clear that it's not like something new has happened. The deep divides that are leading to this us versus them, the hierarchy of people having power and power intentionally being taken away from other people is something that has been a part of our society, certainly in the US, for a very, very, very long time. But we're at this inflection point, this possible turning point where there's an opportunity in my perception, the way that I view it. We can make change happen now in a way that maybe we couldn't access before because everything is so on the surface, everything is visible to so many of us. And I might sound really hopeful and positive, and that's because I am, but I also, of course, want to acknowledge that there are a lot of very scared people for very good reason. There is absolute terror, there's so much helplessness going on right now, and there's a felt sense for so many people of feeling broken or defeated, or that the system is broken, or the problems are too big to fix at this point, or there's overwhelm that there's so much going on that's wrong or hurtful or harmful that we don't know how to turn the tide. And that's why I'm having this episode today on this concept of being relational. And it's not about blame or choosing a specific political side. This is an episode about being human and how we relate to other humans and how our nervous systems are always in connection with one another and how we can use that information to be able to move forward in creating something new. Because even if the idea of the hierarchy is something that we're very used to, power at the top, and if you're at the top or somewhere near the top, you may very well be benefiting from the system being set up this way. But what we don't always realize is that if we're living in a system where some are being harmed, in reality, we are all being harmed. And this is where this significant shift to being relational comes in, because our nervous systems are deeply connected to one another, and we are always sensing internally inside of ourselves as well as in the larger world and also between nervous systems in relationships with others, if there is danger or safety, and there's often multiple cues of danger and multiple cues of safety in any given situation. And when the cues of danger are heavier or outweigh the cues of safety in a particular situation, then our nervous systems send a signal to our brain and our brain goes into a self-protective place, which makes perfect sense and is really excellent for survival. However, we are not meant to be living in survival constantly. And if you look at the world and what's happening today, there are many people who are living in constant survival. And if we look back many, many years, there are many people who have always been living in survival. And as I mentioned before, this is not a new process. It's just more visible to more of us right now. And it can feel so overwhelming. And that also can be a cue of danger to our nervous systems. And when the collective nervous system, because we are all connected in this way, starts to have safety break down and it is not available to all of us where everyone cannot feel safe, that actually affects the collective, whether we know it or acknowledge it or not. And so being relational doesn't just mean having good relationships, although certainly that can be a part of being relational, but being relational means so much more than that. Being relational means understanding how the individual and the whole are related and how they shape one another. And truly being relational means valuing the quality of the connections within the whole right alongside the needs of the individual. Being relational takes into account that individuals exist in the context of the collective and that we are shaped by interactions with each other within the group. And it also takes into account that our nervous systems are always interacting with one another and that safety is something that must be co-created. Now, this might be something that is unfamiliar or it sounds actually threatening to some people because, especially in the US, we tend to have a very individualistic culture and we have these beliefs that if you work hard, put in effort, then as an individual, you can achieve. This is sort of the American dream in a lot of ways. And there can be some positives, but in reality, it really sets up a dynamic where the individual wants to win at any and all costs. And what does that mean? If one person is striving to be the winner, then everyone else around them has to be the loser. And we can start to get into some really scary situations. And that is in part what we see happening today. Because if my sole objective is to win or to achieve, or to be the one at the top of the hierarchy, then suddenly we can start to dehumanize others and think that they're not worth what we're worth, or they're not important, or their perspective is wrong, or they're somehow inherently unworthy because we want to be the one that climbs to the top of the ladder. And so this shift from individualism being the priority to relational belonging, that we all have a space to belong. We all matter, we're all important, we all have value, and we all impact one another. And it's not so much about intention whether we meant to hurt somebody or whether we felt like we had to do this because of X, Y, and Z, but rather being accountable for our impact on others and knowing that what we do affects other people, just like what other people do affects us, and looking to create safety and belonging for all is actually a really powerful and healing approach, even in the face of the violence that we're witnessing today. Because in reality, nobody exists in isolation. We are all in community. Even if we value what we have done as individuals, the work we've put in, how far we've gotten, what we've achieved, what we've accomplished. The truth is that we are all connected. And this is biological and neurological, rooted in quantum physics, that none of us is actually an island all on our own. And this concept applies to people in intimate partner relationships as well as in families, and then of course in communities and larger nations and globally. And if you think about the idea of being a global citizen, this is really very much a part of that. What does it mean to know that you're part of something bigger, connected to the whole? And of course, there's value in being one. However, when you're one of many, there is such beauty and power in the diversity and in the connection. Even if we don't all agree, we don't have to all agree. We can all maintain our own perspectives. However, the concept of being relational takes into account our impact on the whole and how incredibly important this is. And this is not a new idea by any means. It's an ancient concept. And many cultures are, in fact, relational. It is just not the current paradigm in the US and in many other places in the world today. When I talked about Imago earlier, I said that Imago is more than just an approach to therapy, it's also a way of being. And it is in support of a shift towards a relational way of showing up in this world. And what that looks like in therapy is that when a couple comes into my office, the relationship is my client, not one or the other person. I'm not doing individual therapy times two. I'm actually working with the space between the two people and helping that space be safe so that both people can feel that experience of safety so that they can show up vulnerably as their full selves, reclaim their wholeness, and have a deep, meaningful connection with each other. And this is what it looks like between two people in a relationship. And it applies when you get to larger groups of people as well, even when you talk globally. And this shift can only happen when we move away from judgment and into curiosity. Instead of being certain that we know what has happened, what the other person means and thinks, and feeling like we are the expert in everything. And that's a very self-protective place to be that I know what's going on. I feel like I'm in control and that I'm the right one. I am the one who's winning in my perspective versus coming to the other with curiosity. And again, even if you don't agree and never ever do agree, to be able to show up with curiosity and wonder, hmm, can you help me learn more about this? Can you help me understand your perspective? Because there's opportunity for growth when we can connect through curiosity. And as I mentioned, the Imago intentional dialogue earlier, this is the tool we use at Imago. And it is a structured way of communicating that helps to create that safety needed for people to be able to be heard, be seen, and be valued by each other. And this works again between two people or in larger communities or in the larger world. And we move into, as I mentioned earlier as well, valuing our impact over our intention. Because in survival, anything goes because the goal is my survival. So it doesn't really matter what I do to others and the process of me surviving, right? If the end is your survival, then anything that you do to get there feels justifiable. And yet, when we think about what may be done and we look at what's happening in our world today, what is being done, what violence is being justified and how, versus looking at the impact instead of what the intentions may be. And people may have different interpretations about what the intentions are. But if we look at the impact on the whole and we see the harm that is being done to so many, whether it is the harm that is being directly done to some or the ripple effect, which I'll talk about in a moment, and we start to value that, we can start to find a way to move towards changing the impact and creating environments for healing instead of perpetuating the harm. And when I talk about this idea that we're all connected, it's not this sort of out there concept as it may land for some people. It is absolutely rooted in our physiology. Our nervous systems are in fact constantly in communication with our internal body as well as the larger world, whether that's the world happening in the room that we're standing in or in the town that we live in or in our country or in the greater world. We don't even necessarily need to be present, especially with social media and media in general. We can really have a window into what's happening anywhere in the world. And all of that is affecting our collective nervous system. And we have the opportunity to either co-regulate each other or dysregulate each other. And co-regulation is the idea that one person's nervous system is rooted in that ventral space, which is the state of feeling grounded and safe. And if one person is rooted in safety, they have the ability to co-regulate another nervous system by offering their safety so that both nervous systems can get to a place of feeling grounded and safe. That is capacity that we all have as humans to co-regulate, to be co-regulated, and to co-regulate others. But if we're not co-regulating, and often that's an intentional conscious choice to be able to co-regulate, because that also often involves self-regulating, you have to often be responsible for regulating yourself before you can offer your safe, grounded state to another nervous system. And that's a very conscious process that you're doing by choice. However, if you're not making a choice consciously about what you're doing, you may very well be dysregulated. And then when you're dysregulated, you're then often impacting other nervous systems and creating dysregulation for other nervous systems. And the truth is that threat travels much more quickly and more powerfully and profoundly than calm. And so when there is a threat for one, this ripples out to the entire system. And then the threat impacts the whole. But we can consciously create safety and communicate safety through our words, through our actions, through our tone, through our pace, and through our presence. And so there are gifts that are available to us right now that we can use with our family, with our friends, with those in our community, with those in our office, with those anywhere and everywhere that we interact with where we can help change to happen right now. And what we're experiencing in our world, the violence that we're witnessing, again, the explicit violence that is happening, it is not new. It is bubbling to the surface, as I said before. And it is evidence that our nervous systems are in a deep state of dysregulation. And so, so many of us in this world have been feeling unsafe for so long. And the people who have been feeling unsafe for so long, with very good reason given our history, they are the people who are now continuing to be most directly impacted and are living in such fear and in such powerlessness. And it is rippling out to our larger community. And so many of us are not knowing what to do. I know that I often can feel really powerless and helpless about what to do from here. And I try to root myself and self-regulate and ground my nervous system and feeling safe so that I can move towards empowering myself and supporting others to empower them to be able to hopefully have this more relational way of interacting and valuing the collective whole because that's really where our power lies. We must keep in mind that when one part of the system is harmed, the entire system is affected. And we all may feel very differently consciously about what's happening in this world. And again, I'm not trying to talk about choosing a specific political side. I'm trying to lift up the importance of our collective healing and the power of empathy and how dangerous it is when we start to fall into this us versus them way of thinking and how we can start to justify things from a place of our survival that harms other people's survival. Moving towards a place of being able to be curious instead of judgmental, being able to slow down yourself and regulate so that you can be rooted in safety and groundedness when you respond to a situation so that you may be able to show up with more curiosity or compassion for yourself and for others. Consciously creating spaces where nervous systems can feel safe and rest and begin to heal is vitally important. And while this needs to be done on a grand scale, it can start in your own living room. Being relational with the people who matter most to you in your life is a great place to start because those are probably the people where you can safely say that you would like to have a positive impact on them and you would hope that they want to have a positive impact on you. So start there. And when you can start to have the experience of being able to connect through difference with them, then you could start to translate this out into the larger world and you can start to have conversations with a neighbor who you might not see eye to eye with. And from there it can grow. And the power of being relational is profound because everybody matters and everyone should feel safe and have a place where they belong. And this is something that is actually possible, even if it feels like we're very far away from it today. But starting where you can, focusing on how you listen, how you pause, how you give yourself space, and how you give others space, how you offer repair when there's been a rupture of connection. These are all incredibly powerful places to begin the work of being relational. And I'm not trying to say that I have all the answers. First of all, as I said, being relational is an ancient concept. This is not something that I myself have developed in any way. But what I want to say is that there is, in fact, hope. And in this time that can feel so incredibly scary and daunting and overwhelming for so many, there is a path towards connection through communication and through the desire to participate in something larger than just ourselves. And I thank you for slowing down with me a bit today, being part of a conversation that values relationship as the foundation for real and lasting change. As our time comes to a close, I ask you to keep listening for just a few more moments because I want to thank you for showing up today. And I want to leave you with an invitation as you hit stop and move back out into the world on your own unique wellness journey. In order to move from where you are today to the place where you want to be, the path may seem long or unclear or unknown. And I want you to know that if that seems scary or daunting or downright terrifying or anything else, that is totally okay. Know that you do not have to create the whole way all at once. We don't travel a whole journey in one stride. And that is why my invitation to you today is to take a step, just one. Any type, any size, in any direction. It can be an external step that can be observed or measured, or it could be a step you visualize taking in your mind. It can be a step towards action or towards rest or connection or self-care or whatever step makes sense to you. I invite you to take a step today because getting to a place that feels better, more joyful, more connected than the place where you are today is possible for everyone, including you, and even when depression is in your bed. If today's episode resonated with you, please subscribe so you can be notified when each weekly episode gets released. I encourage you to leave a review and reach out to me on social media at trish.sanders.lcs.com. Your feedback will help guide future episodes, and I love hearing from you. Also, please share this podcast with anyone who you think may be interested or who may get something from what I have shared. Until the next time we connect, take care of yourself and take a step.