Embracing Vulnerability

In today's episode of Friday Feelings, host Jenelle Friday talks with Cameron Broussard about embracing vulnerability. Cameron is a native Texan, a leader at SSNC Blue Prism, and a passionate advocate for vulnerability.

Cameron defines vulnerability as the ability to be open and honest about your weaknesses. He believes that vulnerability is essential for building trust and transparency in personal and professional relationships.

Jenelle and Cameron discuss the challenges of being vulnerable, especially in the workplace. They offer actionable strategies for practicing vulnerability, such as starting small, being honest with yourself, and finding someone to confide in.

Cameron shares personal stories about how vulnerability has helped him in his career and personal life. He also offers advice for managers who want to create a more vulnerable workplace.

In this episode, you'll learn:

• How to define vulnerability
• The benefits of being vulnerable
• The challenges of being vulnerable
• Actionable strategies for practicing vulnerability
• How to create a more vulnerable workplace

This episode is a reminder that vulnerability is a strength, not a weakness. It is essential for building trust, transparency, and authentic connections. If you are looking to create more meaningful relationships in your life, start by embracing vulnerability.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00: 0:01

Hello, everyone, and welcome to Friday Feelings, the podcast where we turn emotions into power, vulnerability into strength, and remind you to feel everything, fear nothing, and transform your life. I'm your host, Janelle Friday, and I'm really excited about today's episode. We are talking about embracing vulnerability. That word can be a little bit scary at times, but we are here to talk about how embracing vulnerability can not only transform the way you see yourself, talk to yourself, but how you engage with other people and build stronger, better, healthier connections. I am joined today by Cameron Bertard, who, if you are not familiar with, you need to get familiar with. Cameron and I met at a customer TikTok collective event in February of last year is my first keynote of I was nervous to talk about it afterwards. Cameron and I just connected. Cameron is very well-spoken. Cameron is very intelligent, and the way he communicates is very direct and straightforward. And I value that somewhat. Cameron is also a very kind and empathetic individual, and we kind of bonded over uh cuddling a baby kangaroo at the moment, which is just weird. Uh, but it was a great thing. So, Cameron, thank you so much for being here. Thank you so much for taking the time uh and being willing to share with us why invulnerability um is important to you. So welcome.

SPEAKER_01: 1:29

Yeah, thank you so much. It's truly a pleasure to be spending some time with you today.

SPEAKER_00: 1:33

Yeah, I'm excited. So um tell us a little bit about you, um, your personal life, maybe your professional role, and then why is vulnerability a topic that is um something that you're passionate about?

SPEAKER_01: 1:45

Sure, I'd be happy to. So starting off with things that are important to me. I'm a native Texan, um, and I live in Austin, Texas, and I'm fortunate enough to be married, and I have two kids. Right now they're under five. Um, technically I have two kids, but I also have a border colleague that I consider my firstborn child.

SPEAKER_00: 2:05

Her child.

SPEAKER_01: 2:06

Yeah, yeah. And the kids know that that's my firstborn child too. So it's kind of fun. Um, but a little bit about me professionally, I um I've always been in a customer-facing role. I like working with people and solving problems. And I kind of got introduced to the concept at an early age of account management and sales because I was exposed to it through my dad and people around me. And I kind of knew that that's what I wanted to get into. Um, fast forward a couple of years, I've always been in tech professionally. Um, and I realized that I just didn't have the the drive, the chase for that dollar, the coin operated kind of persona. And I always struggled with trying to beat quarter, quarterly goals and everything and finding natural, natural needs and following a customer journey. And I was searching for something. And that's when I um I was asked, I caught the attention, kind of my philosophy around what it means to work with customers and solve problems. Caught the attention of some of the senior leadership at an organization. Uh, and they asked me point blank, uh, have you ever heard of customer success? And I gave them a very uh simple man's answer as I like to describe it. I said, Well, yeah, it's making customers successful, right?

SPEAKER_00: 3:29

That's a good answer.

SPEAKER_01: 3:30

Yeah, they they said, Oh, haha, no, it's actually an emerging field that's that's coming out about the 2015 point. Um, and they said, We don't have anybody from sales background understanding the gathering of requirements and everything and everything and why decisions are made. And we'd really like to help, like your help to build out our first customer success team and bringing that experience. So um I said yes, and I've been in customer success ever since and I've really enjoyed it. And today I work for a company called SSNC, Blue Prism, where we are one of the uh thought leaders in the robotic process automation space. No, not the robotic arms that build stuff, but the actual software that automates a lot of work. And so we help customers and clients unlock the human potential by removing repetitive, mundane work from um from people's daily lives so that they can apply their creativity towards challenging new uh new problems as well as just connecting with people to solve problems in general.

SPEAKER_00: 4:51

I love that. So then obviously you're a busy guy, you got a busy life, you got a busy work life, right? Um embracing vulnerability. Let's talk about why vulnerability is um something that is important to you.

SPEAKER_01: 5:07

Yeah. So I it's always been kind of a theme, even since a child. Like I I don't know, I gravitate towards the we all hear the cliches, like like life is too short for for fake friends or anything like that. And I just gravitated towards this concept at a very early age um of being transparent. And I kind of see, I kind of see things um intertwined, and so much so that when I stepped into my leadership role, one of the first things that I did is I established themes with my team, and it was a trifecta. And I'm sorry to my team if you're listening, uh, you're gonna hear it again. It's I believe very strongly in trust, transparency, and vulnerability. I told them that that should be the literal cornerstones for everything that you do with your customers, interacting with one another, and then even interacting with myself. And vulnerability is kind of at the crux. I again, I believe in the power of three. We see a lot of things in our in in life that are just rooted into the power of this three, you know, rock, paper, scissors is a very common analogy. One one is more powerful than the other in certain circumstances. The shape of the triangle is considered the most stable uh shape in uh geo in uh geography, not geography, but um yeah, mathematics. And and so it's kind of one of those important things. But vulnerability is in my mind, it's the one that kind of I gravitate more towards over the three more often than not, is my my starting point. It's it's taking that that leap of faith, which is a contradiction because transparency and trust is the uh are the other two, but accepting that I I need to be vulnerable uh in a particular moment and understanding what that means, where those limitations are, is really, really important in my mind.

SPEAKER_00: 7:13

Okay, so let's define vulnerability. According to you, Mr. Bressard, what is vulnerability? What does that mean?

SPEAKER_01: 7:21

Well, I it's a great question. I love it because vulnerability, more often than not, is defined as a weakness, which has a negative connotation. And I don't really accept that negative component of it. I do think that it is very much a weakness, but it's it's something that should be embraced. It's the antithesis of a strength. Most, most of the time, you know, we lead with your strengths, start with the best foot forward, make a really strong first impression. But there's there's something just awe-inspiring when you lead from vulnerability. It's just accepting who you are or what your limitations are and finding that comfort almost. There's just a sense of confidence when you find that person who knows that this isn't their forte. And so the way that I define vulnerability is very much it's not necessarily weakness, but it's not the strongest component in order to kind of find that balance, that neutrality in the way that it's received.

SPEAKER_00: 8:26

Yeah, I like that. I think too, for me, I like the word courage because it takes a lot of courage to be vulnerable. And whether that's you sharing with a friend, something that's personal to you, whether that's you sharing with a manager, something that's happening, or whether you're the leader and you're being vulnerable with your team, um, vulnerability and in um inevitable, inevitably, uh it inevitably um leads to a stronger sense of self-awareness, right? Because there's a level of honesty when you're being vulnerable that's required. And so I think self-awareness, we talk a lot about self, or I talk a lot about self-awareness because it really is the front door to emotional intelligence. Um but it's critical and it's an integral part of self-acceptance and emotional connection. And I and I say that with a grain of salt because it's twofold. You have to have an emotional connection with yourself. For instance, I've had an up and down emotional roller coaster with some of the things happening in my personal life right now, and I don't like it. Um, I like to be kind of cool, calm, collected no matter what. And when my emotions get too out of control or overwhelming, um, I've worked really hard to kind of understand where they're coming from and how I can work through them. But emotional connection is also about how we connect to others, right? And I think I know that I'm tired of surface level conversation. I kind of suck at it now. Um, I want to know real things about you. I want you to feel comfortable enough to be real with me. And and when I'm sharing something that's vulnerable or really close to my heart, I want to know that there's reciprocation there because that's that's a real relationship, that's a real connection. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01: 10:09

Yeah, I do. And and I think it's important to note that sometimes this this these types of conversations really cut like a knife to people. It's really off-putting. And so it is important just to put a disclaimer out before we go any further further, it does take a very high level of EQ and it does take practice. But I encourage you to explore that. Again, that's why, that's why it's kind of the the three go hand in hand. You have to have trust, transparency, and vulnerability. You have to understand that you're uncomfortable in a situation yourself. You have to you have to interpret that and understand it, but you have to trust the audience, whoever you're engaged with, that they are they are going to acknowledge and accept that. And you have that transparency between them. Like, again, what are what are the outcomes? Why are we talking today? We've all been in those uncomfortable situations where you know you're just you're talking to someone, you're like, Hey, how are you doing today? And you expect, at least in American culture, you expect them to go, I'm doing great. How are you? Like, that's it. Yeah, that's all you get. And then you get that one interaction where you're like, Hey, how are you doing today? And they go, not good. And you're just immediately off put. You're like, I'm uncomfortable now. I don't want to be in this conversation anymore. And it's this is a great example of just knowing your audience, knowing the space that you're in, what is that outcome, and thinking a little bit more about it?

SPEAKER_00: 11:45

So let's talk a little bit about vulnerability in your life. So I want to kind of play the devil's advocate here. I would love for you to help us understand. Do you have an example of when you were vulnerable and it didn't, it didn't play out well? Meaning maybe you were vulnerable with somebody and they couldn't return that or it made them uncomfortable. How did you how do you work through when you're attempting to be vulnerable with someone and it is not reciprocated and it's not given back?

SPEAKER_01: 12:11

Oh, yeah, absolutely. I mean, uh, you know, how many do we have? How much time do we have to do this? Like, like everything I do is is could potentially be explored in this in this consideration. Um, I think it putting me on the spot, I think I'm gonna pick one where it it pulls from my sales phase, where you know, we have we have the great conversations with people. We're trying to do things, and there's just an undertone. There's just this undertone, it's something that's off put where where it just doesn't feel right. There's there's different influences at play. And it's not really clear to me at this particular moment, but but why are we trying, like, for example, I forget the exact details, but let's just say it was something along the lines of like there were people driving an event, like a compelling event. It was an artificial date that we were trying to get this project done by. And I was I was being vulnerable in this instance because it was an emerging product, it was a very aggressive time, timetables, and like literally we were building it as we were in the air. And I was being very transparent. We had been very transparent both sides up to this point, and we had built a really good amount of trust, but all of a sudden, the timetable shifted and the person's personality and their engagement changed, and they were no longer being forthcoming. They didn't like it was just a change, and I didn't understand why for so long, and it it happened, it continued over a month or so, but they weren't willing to trust the relationship anymore to be transparent and be vulnerable and say that you know they messed up, whatever the reason was, they messed up the timetable and they were getting new pressure that was outside of their control, or they were leaving, they were trying to get this done and they had their own agenda and they had a you know bonus waiting, waiting on the completion of it. If they just hit that mile market, they could get the bonus before they leave, you know, those types of situations. And yes, I am obfuscating some of the details in order to protect the integrity, but yeah, those are those are examples that like I have run across in my career, and I do think that they're more common where it just doesn't work out, and you feel ultimately you just you feel even more vulnerable than you did before you started. And I'm the type of person where I just I just run the permutations in my head just nonstop playing the what if game. Like, what was that actual reason? What could I have done differently? What were the leading and lagging indicators of that moment? Was that the right outcome?

SPEAKER_00: 15:11

Well, you mentioned that you're a leader at SSNC. And I know as a leader, sometimes no, let me correct that. Always we should be meeting by example.

SPEAKER_01: 15:21

Uh oh. Uh-oh.

SPEAKER_00: 15:23

Right. So as you talk about how you've told your team these three, these three things, right? Trust, vulnerability, transparency. Transparency. Thank I was about to say authenticity, transparency. Um, how has that been received with your team? Have you had anyone who's adverse to being vulnerable with you? And how do you work with individuals who are a little bit standoffish?

SPEAKER_01: 15:44

Yeah. So so the answer is yes. Um, I've had I've had reactions from all ends of the spectrum. I've had people who have outwardly said, this is the greatest thing, I love it. And I'm like, you know, calm down there. You you're a little too overzealous with this. Then I've also had people who are completely just apathetic and neutral to it. You know, there's a couple of people on my team who are extremely seasoned veterans. They're they've seen everything. So like it really takes a lot to surprise them. And they're like, okay, I can get on board, but it's not really going to be my cup of tea. And then I've I've also had a couple people who really surprised me, the unexpected, where I thought they were okay with it. And then I got very visceral reactions from them and rejection, like outright frustration. Like the imagine the person just like sitting there, just you had the same annoying catchphrase over and over again, and all of a sudden they just boil over and they're like, I can't take it anymore. I don't want to hear it. And and those were those are some of the more memorable ones to me, because yeah, it it it was in my mind, it was a self-fulfilling prophecy. They finally hit the point where they were willing to trust me to be transparent. And they would they called me and were like, I got a problem with you. Great confrontation. All right, new manager, new manager. I'm not I'm not nervous, you're nervous. Moment. And I'm like, okay, tell me more. And they're like, you keep saying this, and it's it means nothing. Like it's a walking contradiction. And I said, So help me, help me understand where you're coming from, why you feel like it's a contradiction. And we went through that, and they they're like, every single thing that you say, like, you can't have one without the other. And we had to walk through that process. And eventually they they kind of saw what I saw. And I wouldn't say they right away accepted it as those three are the only important foundational things. They they respected what it embodied and they were willing to embrace it at its core, and they they understood how I tried to frame it so that you know you can't you can't be vulnerable with me. You can't have a partnership unless you're willing to trust me. And you can't show your, you know, I'm a human, I'm a simple, I like to tell people I'm a simple man from Texas. And if you don't tell me things just on my face, I'm not like to my face, I might miss it. And vulnerabilities, again, are one of those things that people are very uneasy about, and they don't want to come up front and just say, like, I've got a condition, or I failed math my entire career, and I don't know how to do basic math. And so you have to have those that trust with a person that they're gonna accept you for you, who you are, and sometimes transparently say, This is my limitation, which is uh in a in a form being vulnerable. So that was that was more memorable.

SPEAKER_00: 19:03

I love that. And thanks for sharing that. So let's kind of address the elephant in the room, which you and I are both aware that there's a lot of fear right now. Um, we we're both in SaaS, we've been in SaaS for a long time. So I'm really sp spe speaking to kind of the SaaS world that we we work in here. There's a lot of fear. There are a lot of layoffs happening. There are individuals who have said, look, you're replaceable, period. I can put a job requirement or job rec out on the market, and within a week, I have over a thousand applicants. That's happening. So I want to hear from you as a manager. If I'm a manager who's struggling with getting my people to be vulnerable, because I'm going to ask you the flip question of what do you do if you're an employee who's afraid to be vulnerable? But let's start with the manager hat first. If anyone's listening that's a manager and you're struggling with either you're struggling to be vulnerable or you're struggling to get your team to become more vulnerable with you, Cameron, what advice would you offer that individual?

SPEAKER_01: 20:02

It's this is a great, great question. And you have to go through like the psychology of it teaches us that you have to go through a very tough moment in order to force a bond who to emerge. You have to like you have to literally that there's a reason why they use the adage of, are you in the foxhole with me? Like you have to have a very, very difficult period to kind of earn that trust. You have to, you have to show your true colors, as they say. There's a lot of different phrases. So as a manager struggling, I would I would first say you need to orient yourself around a common objective. If you have OKRs, that's great. You got to try and personalize it, human, humanize it. Make sure, think about what is your mission statement, your vision, and ask yourself really critically do I identify in that mission or that vision statement? Does my team see themselves in it? And go back to some of those basics, but you have to you have to pick. So if you don't have the luxury of time to build trust and you have to artificially accelerate, you're gonna have to pick a milestone. And as a leader, the best way that I would I would do that is take the leap of faith and um and just say ple like take an example and say, please forgive me, like in a public setting. Be the first one to make that move.

SPEAKER_00: 21:34

Those are some scary words there, Cameron. Yeah, it is.

SPEAKER_01: 21:37

It's uh as a leader, you know, if you're not comfortable with this concept, buckle up because you're starting with vulnerability, and you're gonna be the first one to say, I'm not perfect. And in a like I did this with my team um early on. I said I screwed something up, and these are the ramifications. And I I use that as it's not really. In those instances, it's not really important, believe it or not, what you say. It's what you said and what happens afterwards that really becomes the more important thing. Because it's okay for you to screw up so long as you immediately you immediately know how you screwed up and what you need to do in order to fix it and try and get you back on track. Of course, there's always going to be things like, you know, you can't put all the all the pieces back together. So I don't take those examples.

SPEAKER_00: 22:32

Now, the other side of it and the other part of your pause before you jump there, I want to pause and just give a little bit of feedback here. I also want to say that as a leader, um, if you're not willing to be vulnerable, if you have a wall up, if you have guards up, if you've been burned in the past or you don't think it's important, then I'm going to maybe just highlight that you're going to struggle with your team. I think now more than ever, we are seeing the younger generations come in who their emotions are important, their feelings are important to them, and they want to know that they're seen and heard. And so if you are a leader who's not willing to take that leap of faith, as Cameron has said, and be vulnerable first or be vulnerable in moments that you know you should be, you're losing out on building amazing connections with your team. And if your team don't feel engaged, valued, seen, heard, I'm telling you, employee engagement is costing companies a lot of money right now because our management are not willing to become vulnerable. They're not willing to be transparent. They're not willing to build the kind of trust that we're talking about. And so if you're struggling with employee engagement or you wonder how to be a better manager, this is where you start. It's not by doing everything perfect. It's not by, you know, leading your team to, you know, overachievement on all your KPIs and oh, we had a 95% renewal retention rate. That's great. But take stock in the people that are doing that work with you, that are in that foxhole with you, and make real connections. Because we've all been under bad leaders who indicate they don't care. Their actions show that. And so I'm just gonna challenge anyone who's listening. If you're a manager and the idea of vulnerability is foreign, uncomfortable, scary, or you don't think it's critical. Um, I'm gonna just tell you, based on my experience and and my knowledge about employee engagement in the tech industry, my own time as a CSM, you're missing out. And you're going to see a lack of performance because employees who don't feel engaged, they don't give you 100%. Never. They're giving you 80%, they're giving you 75%. And none of us can afford to have CSMs performing less than 100%, 90% at most, right? So, okay, so that's my little rant. Okay, so Cameron, now let's talk about straight from the heart. Right. If you're an employee who's afraid to be vulnerable, because maybe you've been burned in the past, maybe you think your manager doesn't care or they your company does not embrace those kinds of values. How would you encourage that individual that despite the people around them to stay authentic, vulnerable, and transparent?

SPEAKER_01: 25:12

Yeah. So this one stems from really from a level of comfort and confidence and extent. And I'll give you an example of where you may you may have done this quite a bit and you don't realize that you're being vulnerable. Point in case is what's one of the most common interview questions that you get asked? Tell me about a time where you failed. Tell me what your greatest weakness is. And everyone likes the joke, the runny joke is my greatest weakness is I try too hard. I have no weakness.

SPEAKER_00: 25:44

I said that in an interview.

SPEAKER_01: 25:51

But I'll I I digress. My point here is start from a place of confidence. Start with your strengths, know what your strengths are, or uh take a period of self-reflection and just say, you know, I don't feel like I was as effective as I could have been. This is something that I struggle with that gives me heartborn, heartburn and anxiety. You know, listen to your to your emotions to an extent and then approach someone. It doesn't necessarily have to be your manager, but someone that you aspire to, your the player coach, the team lead, someone like that who you've had those moments where you've you know that you can turn to them and ask for help because that's what they're there for, and just confront them. Ask them I can I be honest with you? Can I confide in you? And again, as as I said previously, it's really important to say it, but what happens next matters more. And so this is a this is the path of for you to dip your proverbial toe in if you're cautious about it and say, I'm I'm really struggling with whatever the concept is, or something like that. I don't grasp this. And can you help me? Asking for help is not a weakness, it is it is a strength. And today's day and age, to your point about like generations, you got to find what motivates people, but you also have to recognize what's that common goal, mission, purpose that binds everyone together. Because some people are going to want accolades, but that there's other people where I've I've literally had this. There's people that were on my team that I respect so much, they did incredible things, but they told me if you ever put me on stage, I'm I'm leaving. Because that that type of reward to some is not something that they resonated. But you got to start with with someone, and it doesn't have to be someone professionally, it could be someone personally, but again, it's it's hardening that skill of trusting someone in figuring out how to be transparent when it's appropriate, but being able to do so in a way that's united towards a common goal, either.

SPEAKER_00: 28:14

Yeah, I also think your your word of transparency is really critical because really what how we we got to wrap up this this um episode here, but being vulnerable means that you know yourself well. Being vulnerable means that you have a set of moral ethics, a moral code that you live by. And the thing that I'm really starting to understand about myself is that I've allowed other people's opinions, feedback, behavior, you know, comments, um reduce myself, quiet myself, make me sit back and go, well, am I then crazy for feeling the way that I feel, that I might differ in opinion? The answer is no. If you allow other people to um reduce who you are, right, or make you afraid to be who you really are, then I would challenge that because at the very end of the day, we have a very short life. And if you're going to let other people influence the way that you behave or the person that you are, that's a very long, difficult road to the end of your life, right? If you're always um editing along the way to make people like you or make you feel like you fit in. And Cameron, one of the things that you and I talked about that I really loved as we prep for this call is, you know, you kind of knew as a kid that you were different. Yeah, you weren't gonna be like everybody else. And you told your mom, you're like, mom, I'm different. I'm gonna be my own creature. I'm gonna do my own thing. And, you know, there's the really profound truth there that I think is rare. And I think that's part of why vulnerability has been a topic for you. But let's shift into now I want to give concrete takeaways for our listeners, right? So let's talk about actionable strategies for practicing vulnerability. How would you encourage someone who is new at this, has not embraced this, is going, okay, I'm gonna try. Where do they start?

SPEAKER_01: 30:12

Yeah. So I think the easiest way to start with this, truly it's it's simple. And I I struggle, I myself struggle uh with this because you know, it's imposter syndrome is there, and and whatever. Um, everyone's everyone's heard about it and they they feel it. And it's there, and it's important to uh address the elephant in the room. So I'll tie this to one of the most powerful phrases that I remind people to use is one and it's I don't know the answer to the to this question, I don't know the answer to this problem, whatever it is, I don't know. But it's not ended with a period, it's ended with a comma. You say, but I'm gonna go find out. And so rather than when you find yourself kind of in that feeling of getting painted into a corner, um, asked a question, you know, what's what's the answer, Senator, type type of moments, deer and headlight moments. Rather than jumping, like following your instinct of just saying yes or no and just hoping that it goes away, you it someone forgets and it doesn't come back to get you. Take that deep breath, take a couple moments, and just say truthfully, I don't know the answer to whatever the question in its entirety or this particular part. But I'm going to find out. I'm going to provide you an update by this time. It does that work for you and just see what happens. And use that uh again, start small, use that wherever, wherever you just get that tinge. And I promise what what the recipient of that message is going to take away is that just moment of confidence, even if it's a flash of the pan, you could be totally panic, deer, and headlight and still say that crazy. And the person hearing that is gonna go, I've got a newfound respect from me for you because you have the confidence to know your limit and and also the assurance that you're gonna get back to me. Because it's one thing to just say, I don't know, and move on. It's another thing to for that follow through. That follow through is what matters most. And that and that'll you'll you'll get yourself started in that cycle of.

SPEAKER_00: 32:39

Yeah. And talking about, I mean, I just want to address maybe I should have said this at the beginning of the call, but um, I think a lot of people think of vulnerability as like, oh, I don't like to talk about my feelings. I don't want to sit in a circle holding hands, singing kumbayad, everybody's, you know, being vulnerable. That's not what we're talking about. Vulnerability at its core is your admittance that, hey, I'm afraid of this, I'm struggling with this, I don't know things. And we are our own worst critics and our own worst enemies, casting judgment over the things that we do wrong. We've made a mistake, we've let somebody down, we've hurt somebody's feelings, we might get fired, we might get judged. All of that is happening on top of our own worst critic. And so one of the things that I'm gonna leave everybody with, it's a statement that I ask myself every time I have an intrusive thought, meaning I'm afraid to tell this person that I don't know how to do this, or I might be falling behind the curve, or I got to admit I said something wrong, right? The first question is it true? Is it true if your vulnerability is saying, I really don't do great on stage? Okay. Is that true? Have you proven yourself to be a failure in that area before? Chances are you've probably not had a lot of opportunity or a coach or a mentor to teach you that. So maybe it's not true, you don't really know. Is it helpful? Meaning, is the thought that you're not good on stage, but maybe you're required to, or maybe your managing manager is pushing you for, is that thought helping you in that moment? Is it helping you to doubt yourself and judge yourself and hold yourself to a standard that is impossible? Okay. Last question is it uplifting? Are you speaking kindly to yourself? Are you telling yourself confident things like, well, I don't think I'm gonna be good, but I'm gonna give it a shot anyway, and I'm gonna give my best. I'm absolutely terrified of this. Maybe my manager will go on stage with me and alleviate some of that anxiety. Tell yourself something kind because the more you beat yourself up, the more you tell yourself you can't, the more you tell yourself that people are gonna judge you or um cast blame or not forgive you if it's a mistake or you know, hold you to some ridiculous standard again, you're already failing forward. And I think one of the things we struggle with as humans is we listen to these intrusive thoughts and we act upon them. We allow them to take root in our minds and we are almost transformed by them on this negative thought process pattern. And vulnerability is the practice of accepting what is, being kind to yourself, asking, is it true? And finding someone to practice this with. So go talk to your mom. I called my mom this morning. Go pull a best friend, go pull a coworker who you feel comfortable with. But if you don't practice, if you don't get good at figuring out how to express yourself, figuring out how to have these conversations, then you're gonna stay rooted in fear. And when you let fear keep you from moving forward, nobody wins.

SPEAKER_01: 35:38

Yeah. And, you know, moment of trust here. You know, I'm gonna you touched on a story that I had with with my uh my mom uh growing up. And you also mentioned something, you said start with something positive. Well, the reality is being transparent, not everything's always positive. You can be in some tough situations where I don't see any good at this particular moment. True. And being transparent, again, here's here's why it's kind of that perfect trifecta is being transparent in that moment, being vulnerable that I don't see anything good in this. And just being okay and saying we're gonna make the most, especially in custom in the world of customer success. I mean, come on, how many times do we have in those situations where we've been handed a bad hand and we feel like there's no light, there's no positivity, and we we still have to try. You can't lose hope. You can't you have to try. And so having those moments, I do this with my team. They call me, I'm having a moment of weakness, of vulnerability where I don't see a possible positive outcome. And being trusting them to sit to have gone through all of exhausted all of the different options and scenarios possible. Sometimes you do have to have the tough conversation to say, it's okay. We're not going to save that customer, we're not going to make them successful.

SPEAKER_00: 37:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 37:03

Because their intention, they were never wanting really to be successful in the first place, or they had the wrong impression, or they their business changed, and it's no longer a valued partnership, and that's okay. But again, it's what happens next, that follow-through. Okay, well, what how do we make them successful? We exit them together. And so I think the other the other major example that I'll I'll share, an actionable item is again, I said it earlier, but orient your thought around a common goal. If you're scared to, you know, I don't want to be transparent about myself or anything, well, then distance yourself and instead orient around a project or a goal or something that is more communal. And say, this rather than I'm struggling with whatever it is, this chat this project is very, very difficult. It is presenting a challenge, and you're subconsciously you're distancing yourself and dehumanizing whatever it is, but you're still achieving those goals of being transparent about it and and being vulnerable.

SPEAKER_00: 38:11

Yeah. Well, and and like you said before, trust is a muscle. You got to flex it, you got to practice it, you got to work at it. Same thing for vulnerability. So this is not a you're gonna jump into the vulnerability pool and now you're really great at being at this. It's practice, it's giving yourself grace, giving yourself room to be human. We are all human. Uh, so we're way over time, but that's okay. Cameron, I'm gonna ask you for final thoughts.

SPEAKER_01: 38:38

You know, I I think this is a great conversation. I I say life's too short in order to hide behind some something scared. I've got enough scars, literally and metaphorically. Um, just accept who you who you are, because there's gonna be people out there that are gonna accept you for who you are, and there's gonna be people that don't. But understanding why and re-evaluating is is probably the key takeaway. As long as you're learning from those experiences and not just, you know, whatever, flippant, I'm you know, I am who I am. I don't care if anybody loves me, is very different than I am who I am and I want to be the best version of me.

SPEAKER_00: 39:21

Yeah, 100% agree. Well, as we wrap today's episode, from my heart, be inspired to feel deeply, fearlessly, and authentically. Keep leaning into your feelings because the transformation truly starts within. See y'all next Friday.