Emotional Agility: Adapting with Grace

Life is unpredictable, but how we navigate change defines our resilience and growth. In this episode of Friday Feelings, we welcome Rachel Provan, leadership expert and founder of the CS Leadership Academy, to dive deep into the power of emotional agility—the ability to pivot, adapt, and thrive even in uncertain times.

Together, we explore the psychology behind emotional agility, why resilience often feels uncomfortable, and how rewiring your thoughts can transform your ability to handle challenges. Rachel shares raw personal experiences, insights into how our brain resists change, and practical strategies for building emotional flexibility in both professional and personal life.

Key Takeaways from This Episode:
⚡ Emotional Agility vs. Emotional Rigidity—why adaptability is key to success
🧠 How your brain resists change and what you can do about it
🔄 Mindset shifts to help you pivot when life throws unexpected curveballs
🚫 How to stop self-sabotaging thoughts and replace them with empowering ones
💬 Practical tools to help you manage stress, anxiety, and uncertainty

🎙 Guest Spotlight: Rachel Provan, leadership coach and host of Psychology of Customer Success, shares invaluable lessons on self-awareness, growth, and the power of shifting your internal narrative.

This episode will challenge you to examine your thoughts, break old patterns, and embrace uncertainty with confidence.

🎧 Tune in now and learn how to move through change with grace, clarity, and emotional strength!

Transcript

SPEAKER_01: 0:05

All right, everyone. Welcome to Friday Feelings, another episode where we turn emotions into power, we tell her we turn vulnerability into strength, and we remind you to feel everything, fear nothing, and transform your life. I'm your host, Janelle Friday, and I'm so excited about today's episode. We're talking about emotional agility adapting with grace. And I'm super, super thrilled to introduce my very special guest, Rachel Provan. Rachel, thank you for being here so much and spending some time with me today.

SPEAKER_00: 0:37

Oh, I could not be more thrilled. This uh this topic is very close to my heart, and I love everything you're doing in this space.

SPEAKER_01: 0:43

Thank you. I appreciate that. Well, tell us a little bit about you. Who is Rachel Provan and and why is emotional agility something that's really important to you?

SPEAKER_00: 0:52

Sure. Um, so basically I've been in customer success for a very long time, um, 18 or so-ish years, my God. Um and I was a leader for about 15 of those. And uh I mainly talk about leadership uh through the lens of psychology and mental health is a large piece of that mindset, um, but all taking it to a degree that's very practical and actionable so that you can use it in your real life. Because I find that a lot of leadership advice, whether it's in CS or not, great theories, but we have the problem that all of these things have to be done around other people who are not going to be following your script. So, how do we deal with that anyway? How do we be successful anyway and still feel good in our lives? So it's success and happiness combined.

SPEAKER_01: 1:51

I love that. Um, and you have a very successful business where you're empowering through through some training. Tell us about that.

SPEAKER_00: 2:00

Yes, thank you for mentioning it. I uh I do have the CS Leadership Academy, which is a 12-week program for uh new or struggling customer success leaders, teaches them how to build and scale a revenue generating CS department while leading with heart. And uh I have started putting together something for uh just first-time managers in any sort of field in tech, um, because no one really teaches you how to do that. And it's a hundred percent of a different job. And it's pretty much the opposite of what you've been doing as an individual contributor. So I teach all the basics of like, here's what you do in this job. Here's how you lead a team meeting, here's how you put together a presentation and pitch strategy and manage your calendar and time and give feedback.

SPEAKER_01: 2:49

You just don't inherit those skills when you get promoted.

SPEAKER_00: 2:52

Well, no, see, you're supposed to be good with people, so you automatically can do that, right? Right, right. That's what I thought. And I sucked. So uh, you know, I thought I would uh my whole thing has always been like, why are people not being taught how to do this? Why are CSMs not being taught how to CSM? Why are new managers not being given the rule book of like, this is what works, you know, let's deal with anything that's coming up along the way that you're struggling with. But like these are the basic rules so you don't have to hit your head on, you know, every step along the way.

SPEAKER_01: 3:23

I love that. And then let's just give something personal. Let let let our listeners know something personal about you that's fun.

SPEAKER_00: 3:30

Um, let's see, fun. Gosh. I mean, I think it's kind of fun. Like I live in Brooklyn, I am surrounded by boys. I have my husband, my two uh, my two sons, and my boy puppy. Um, so I'm starved for female companionship. Um so I have a lot of girlfriends. Um, but I I have a podcast that I love, and I'm just a big old psych nerd. Um I can I can nerd out all day on neuropsych, behavioral psych. I was raised by a Freudian psychologist.

SPEAKER_01: 4:04

That was that explains interesting, doesn't it? Yeah. Well, and we're kindred spirits that way, right? Because the study of emotional intelligence, self-awareness, uh neuroplasticity, TTRP, um, all of the ways that you can on your own chemically impact your brain and the way you think is really powerful. Um, so let's let's talk about emotional agility, right? Emotional agility, let's define it. It's the ability to adapt to change with flexibility and with grace because life throws curveballs, and our ability to navigate those curveballs with resilience makes all the difference in the world. So, why is this a topic for you, Rachel, that's really important?

SPEAKER_00: 4:46

Probably because I've had to be incredibly resilient. Uh, I've had to adapt to so much change. And I mean, I don't think that's terribly unusual. The nature of life is that nothing stays the same, you know, it's the good news and the bad news. If you don't like what's going on, guess what? It's gonna change anyway. But so's the stuff that you love. Um, and I've I've just definitely had a lot of curveballs thrown at me, um, you know, from most of my life, I will say. And I have become, you know, very good at navigating change that kind of knocks me on my butt. Um, I've become good at navigating it to the point where it's like I recognize it now. But I think the thing that I'm gonna keep hammering this whole time is that um emotional agility isn't pretty. It doesn't look like it doesn't have to look any particular way. You can feel like you're not handling it well, and that is the process of emotional agility. Part of it is falling apart to put it back together differently and stronger. But resilience and emotional agility feels like shit. And I think that's something that most people don't realize. So they think that they don't have it. But all it really is is learning and figuring out the next phase of your life. It's the way that we grow. We never level up when things are good. Um, and you know, I know a lot of people who are like, yes, I'm ready to level up. I'm like, oh boy, oh boy, whatever you just called in. Um so yeah, that's that's my main interest in it and message around it. It's that it takes a long time to learn that, oh, this is just learning, and that things turn out okay. Not necessarily the best way ever, but like up to now, I've survived. So I probably will continue to.

SPEAKER_01: 6:48

Yeah, well, and and let's really get into the nitty-gritty of emotional agility. We know what the word emotional means, but let's dig into an emotional agility perspective versus emotional rigidity, right? So emotional agility, agility being that that piece of pivoting when something bad goes wrong, when someone you get fired, you make a mistake, you max out a credit card, you have a fight with a spouse, like whatever it might be, the ability to be agile and pivot, to not give up, to not bury your head in the sand, to kind of we say that stuff pull pull up your big girl pants or pull up your bootstraps and and continue continue marching forward. I would say that as long as you're breathing, you're winning.

SPEAKER_00: 7:32

It doesn't necessarily feel that way, uh, but your brain certainly sees it that way. Um and you know, I I think that's where a lot of it gets confusing is that people are just like, oh, stip upper lip, get on with it. Like you're still here, so you've survived. And yes, but I don't think there's enough talked about where like what strategies do people do to not completely fall apart. And what I mean by falling apart is not like, oh, you're crying, oh, you have a bunch of bad days and you don't get out of your sweat clothes. What I do mean is you're not taking on really harmful habits. Um, you know, I think there's a whole lot of substance abuse happening right now in, you know, corporate America because it's just becoming more and more untenable, and people don't know what to do, so they just try and numb out.

SPEAKER_01: 8:24

And that is I I mean, I identify with that. So I'm an emotional eater. It's it's a challenge. I'm not even gonna lie about that. And I've been pretty transparent about that. But from a from a change perspective, you kind of highlighted that change is inevitable. The one thing consistent in life is its unpredictability and the fact that everything is changing all the time. And so I think to your perspective, when you talk about strategy, it's a learning lesson, right? So um, self-awareness, I talk a lot about, is the front door to EQ because if you're not self-aware, you don't know when things are really going wrong. You don't really and know when you're off track. You can't identify, wow, I'm super emotional, but it actually has nothing to do with what's happening in my life right now. I'm being triggered by something else. And so let's dig into a little bit of your story. Um, when do you think you really accepted and leaned into this word of being agile, of being emotionally resilient through difficult things? Were you a kid? Were you a teen? I mean, not from you surviving things, but being absolutely aware that you were being emotionally agile.

SPEAKER_00: 9:31

It probably hasn't been uh, you know, until the last five years, honestly. Okay. Um, I think I was always good at it, but I don't think that I had the tools that I now have. Um, you know, I got some of them in my maybe my early 30s. Um, I'm 45 now. I'm very like not quiet about my age. Um, so hold on, let me turn my uh my notifications off because all of a sudden everyone is binging me because I'm on a podcast. Of course, right now. Of course, right now. Um so um, yeah, it definitely took me a long time. Um, and it took me a long time to be able to have any feelings and not be completely terrified. Um and I I've always kind of if if I could have if I could have it my way, I would be a floating head. Uh not have to not have to eat, not have to sleep, you know, just be able to have my lovely ideas and communicate with people and help them, but not have to tote around this reality of a body and its inconveniences and feelings. Uh, I just want to be thought bubbles. Um, and guess what? That's not an option. Uh it comes with. So I I will say, you know, I had enough um tough things happen. I think it was also in starting my own business, you know, a a lot with entrepreneurs, a lot of us go through a lot of uh, you know, personal development stuff. Um, and that was incredibly helpful for me. Um, you know, I've had 15, 20 years of therapy, but that stuff really shook things loose and made me a lot more open to the idea of, oh God, I've got to actually feel these things uh in order to be able to move through them because they'll just sit there like a lump in my stomach and make me sick.

SPEAKER_01: 11:30

Um we're talking about things like stress, anxiety, fear, insecurity, right? I just want to start completely let's let's do those things to really go for work.

SPEAKER_00: 11:41

Let's talk about some stuff. Like, I mean, I don't want to get all woe is me, but like I've I've had some difficult things, you know. My dad died suddenly when I was 22. I lost a number of friends around that same time. Like, you know, they just like passed away, whether in 9-11 or, you know, diseases and stuff. Uh so fairly early on, I, you know, things got real. I was not under the impression that I was invincible for very long. Um, but I will really say that I had kind of like a changeover when I finally built my own business because I had had three short stints in a row. Um, two of which I left voluntarily. Um, one of which I did, that was their choice. Um and the third, by the third one, it was like I really felt trapped. I really felt like I couldn't leave because I had these other two short stints. I could not find more work, even though like the work I had done was incredible. Um, but people like, ah, you jump around a little. It's like, I could tell you, but you you don't want to hear it, you know. Um, and that that third one was really just so toxic that it really, it really did take me down. Like my you can only take so much in a short period of time, like from 2020 to or like really 2018 to 2022, just a lot of things that really shook my confidence and my belief in who I was. Um and then when I decided to start doing something on my own, um really seeing that a lot of that came from a systemic place rather than just me. Um but I will tell you something about my emotional agility and and resilience is that I learned in my early 30s. I had just ended um a seven and a half year relationship. It was basically, you know, my most of my 20s, like my entire adult life. Um, and I had just been like, no, I'm gonna pivot from this. And um I was very depressed. And I actually learned some about cognitive behavioral therapy around that time. I wasn't in it, but I picked up all the books and learned all these things. And this was the first time I really understood, like, really had the realization that, like, oh my God, my thoughts aren't necessarily right. They're not necessarily true. Showing, isn't it? All the time. Holy cow. They're like full-on I make up stories all day, and then I believe them and I live my life that way. Um, so getting some tools there to learn to examine my thoughts, question them, and say, like, okay, in this moment right now, is any of that actually happening? Is any of the things that I am so in fear of that I have decided are absolutely going to happen because of this one thing, are any of them actually happening right now? You know, so it's like, okay, learning the difference between a fact and a feeling. And from there, it took a long time to understand that, yeah, but you still have to have the feeling sometimes. Uh, I was like, no, no, I've got my facts, don't have to have them. Um, if only that were the case. No need, no need. Uh yeah, I can I can talk a good game. It doesn't mean that everything is easy for me. Um, the stuff's hard, but getting it.

SPEAKER_01: 15:09

Let's pause there because I really want to identify something that you really said facts versus feeling. So, one of the things that I do personally, because most people know my story, you know, you and I have kind of talked a little bit. I lived in fear for most of my life. And I lived with this voice in my head that had convinced me I wasn't worthy of love, I wasn't sure good, I wasn't right, all of these things, and that internal narrative shaped my emotions, which shaped my behavior, right? And so when you're able to accept the fact that your thoughts don't always come from a good place, and they're not always true. You have to stop and ask. Here's what I asked myself. First of all, is it true? So if I'm getting ready to go into a job interview and I'm telling myself, man, I didn't get the last job. I probably said something wrong. I'm not really great at doing these things. Is that really true? Well, I've been employed multiple times, I've landed really great jobs. So chances are, no, it's it's not true. So then the second question is, is it helpful? Is it helping me to have these thoughts in this moment right before I'm about to go give a presentation or right before I'm about to go do a job interview? Is it helping me in this moment? It's an intrusive thought that stems from a place of being insecure or being fearful. And then the last question is, is it uplifting? I think we are our, I say we as humanity are very good at talking badly to ourselves and about ourselves. We're very good at saying things to keep us insecure and keep us in fear and keep us in this neurotic, insecure place. And so again, it's in it's it's being proactive and it's being intentional in those, it's a moment. You have to grab it in the moment when it happens. Otherwise, those thoughts run rampant and off you're now weeks down the road going back to the moment, going, why did I let that thought spearhead this living thing that I just experienced, you know?

SPEAKER_00: 17:04

You live into those thoughts. Like if you're truly believing it's true, then you're acting as if, and most of the time it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. That's uh, so when people talk about like your thoughts become things, your thoughts, you know, turn into your life. That's not woo-woo. That's you're changing your behavior because you're believing it. Like I am very woo-woo, but I am woo-woo in a way that is based in psychology and neuroscience and like all these things that I've learned about that. It's like, no, no, this actually makes sense because it has to for me, or I can't get into it. Um, but there is something you touched on there with like the is it true? I am a huge fan of um, what is it? Come on, I'm picturing it in front of me. The burns, um come on. Scale. Let me just, I don't know why it's why I'm blanking, but I have it, I always have it right like at my fingertips. Um resources. Come on, come on.

SPEAKER_01: 18:14

So while you do that, I'm gonna I'm gonna jump in here for just a second. Talk about I mentioned emotional agility versus emotional rigidity. So emotional rigidity, right, is here's here's how I would classify that. So um you are gonna struggle with emotional rigidity if you struggle with control and resist change. I I've talked to a lot of people through my career about well, I'm not very good with change. Well, if you speak it out loud, no one lead into that, first of all. And no one is good with change. Like I love to reorganize a room and move furniture. I like that change, but I don't want to change in other areas. So not everyone that you look around that looks like they're good with dealing change, just because they appear that way doesn't mean that they are. Um, two emotional rigility actually increases stress, anxiety, and fear of the unknown. So by digging your heels in, by burying your head in the sand like an ostrich, by trying to pretend like all I have to do is hang on and everything will be okay, you're actually making the circumstance worse for yourself by staying in that mental place. And it actually will impact your relationship's career and well-being long term. And I think if you're listening to this and you're resonating with what Rachel's saying, you probably can think of a time in your life where uh your fear of the unknown or your inability to recognize and pivot emotionally has cost you in a relationship or led to a fight or led to a fallout. I mean, the list is probably endless for most of us. And so as we talk about emotional agility, to those of you listening, I really want you to think through am I saying that by changing your thoughts, you're gonna change your life? Yeah, that's what I'm saying. And it starts with acknowledging them in the moment. Now, if you're on a work call and you're triggered, can you address that emotion in real time? No, let's be real. I'm talking about in your day-to-day, as you're listening to the internal talk track happening in your head and you're hearing yourself say these things over and over that you may have been saying or listening to for years and years. Now is the time to stop and ask yourself, why am I, why am I saying this to myself? Why do I feel that way? And start to really become self-aware because those thoughts came from somewhere. Whether it was trauma as a young adult, whether you've had issues as a child, most of us have. Um, we are programmed in a very specific way because of the way we were raised. And I wasn't aware of my programming until this massive thing in my life happened. I'm gonna tell you if you have not had a massive life crisis, don't wait for one. Grab the bull by the horns now, as you're listening to this, and make a decision to be present with yourself and start to question everything you think. Because, as to Rachel's point, not everything you think is true. Not everything you think is helpful or useful or uplifting. So now is the time to start. So, okay, there's my little caveat. All right. So, Rachel, you love that. You're looking up for the resource.

SPEAKER_00: 21:06

Uh, yes, I got my resource and it's the Burns triple column theory. And I'm gonna get to it in one second, but it I just had a thought, and that is for me, I find it really helpful to know why something's happening. Uh, and that it's not just that, like, I suck and I have to try harder to be more emotionally, you know. So our brains do this, and like that's the default, and it's always gonna be like that. First of all, your brain doesn't like change because it's our brains haven't changed very much since we've been cavemen and women, and we were constantly, you know, in fear for our survival. In our current lives these days, we don't have to be quite so hair triggered, but our brain hasn't figured that out yet. Um, in the same way that it hasn't figured out, like, hey, there's plenty of food. I really don't need that entire bag of chips. It'll be here tomorrow. Like, it's like, no, no, it's here. Let's not in my house. We don't have Yeah. Um, but your brain like it doesn't understand the difference between a lion and oh, I just got scared because of something someone said at work. It also understands that, you know, there's the whole Maslow's hierarchy of needs and the things that basically keep you alive, like air and food, you know, though they're at the very base, but so is like food and shelter, as well as like being accepted by the community. If any of those aren't happening, you're dead. And your brain knows that.

SPEAKER_01: 22:35

And let's also highlight the brain is habitual, it likes habit paths. And so if you are in a rigid way of thinking, you've always thought that way, you've always perceived things that things that way, and you want to change that, it takes purposeful, intentful action to do something different, and your brain is gonna resist that. So there's also a chemical makeup of your brain that you've had for probably most of your life, and it's going to take effort to pivot. Yeah, it's not just gonna happen because you wish it would or you want it to.

SPEAKER_00: 23:06

No, and it doesn't mean that there's anything wrong with you that you don't like any of this. Right. That's right. Uh, it's it's not fun, but it is necessary. And so to me, first knowing that, like, okay, my brain is trying to protect me because it understands that like any change, it's like, but but but but but you haven't died doing it this way. We don't know that if we go right instead of left there, that there's not a freaking lion. So are you really sure that you I don't, I'm gonna do everything I can to move you in this other direction. I'm gonna play all sorts of tricks. Um, and your brain is not thinking logically in those situations. You are tipped into the whole fight, flight, freezer, fawn. Yes, there are two others, um, very, very easily and a lot more often than you probably think. Um, and when that happens, the very logical, rational frontal lobe part of your brain gets shut off. You literally can't use it. You become actively stupider when you're scared. And when there's change, you are scared. Uh so there's literally no way to logic yourself out of this. It's something that you it's more understanding that, like, oh, this is how it goes. Once my heart rate slows down a little bit, my breathing slows down a little bit, and you can do something about that by if you even notice, like, hey, I'm bugging out, try slowing your breathing down. Like, my personal favorite is box breathing. In for four, hold for four, out for four, hold for four.

SPEAKER_01: 24:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 24:37

I use it every freaking day, and not as like a part of not as a part of meditation, but because I'm a crazy person and it helps, you know, get it. We're transparent, people. That's what this podcast is all about. We're all crazy. Yeah, my brain will go off on the trolley tracks and like, whoa, come back here. We have things we have to do and we can't sit here and stare all day in terror.

SPEAKER_01: 25:00

Um, resource that you pulled up.

SPEAKER_00: 25:02

Yes. So now that we know this, we can actually do something to change it instead of insulting ourselves and making it all our fault. So uh now that we've gotten out of the terror, we can get into the more rational part of the brain to actually believe it, right? So, what I was talking about was the Burns triple column theory or triple column exercise. And you literally draw three columns. Um, and it's basically you break it down into one thought. What is the thought that you're having that is really upsetting to you? You know, something happens, you're upset, you're pissed off, whatever it is, there's a thought that's in there that you're probably repeating. Like, you know, he doesn't respect me. Like he thinks I'm stupid, and he's gonna make other people think I'm stupid. And then if other people I'm thinking I'm stupid, I'm gonna lose my job. Holy shit. Uh now it's probably not all of that. It's probably just to you, like that guy thinks I'm stupid. I'm not stupid, he's stupid, you know, whatever. It's that whole thing that keeps playing, but it's generally something about you, and it's something that is not a fact. Now, how do you know it's not a fact? If you had to prove this in a court of law, could you do it? Um, something that is a fact is we had a difference of opinion about something. He said this and I said that. That is a fact. You could get 12 people to agree in a room on that. Could you prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he thinks you're stupid based on that one conversation? Probably not. That's your interpretation. So it's not gonna come necessarily that quickly, but just being able to figure out, like, all right, this is the one thing that's really pissing me off, this thing that this guy thinks I'm stupid. Um, so taking that, putting it in the first column, then you go through these lists of cognitive distortions. Um there are a lot of ones that are repetitive. So I'm not gonna go through all of them, but the main ones are basically black and white thinking, like either something completely wonderful or completely awful, there's no gray. And or like if positive things have happened in the past, it completely doesn't matter because now I've screwed up one thing and it's all over, you know. So it's very black or white, yes or no, um, which is how computers work. So it's even more interesting to do this in the tech world. Um, but you're probably looking at it that way. And if you're anything like me, there's the added bonus of um mind reading and fortune telling. And this one is definitely in there, but it's just like you're thinking this and this is the consequence. So that's that's a double whammy. Like you're thinking this, and because of that, here's what's going to happen in the future. Here's the bad thing. So, what you do is you go through across all of those cognitive distortions, they're listed there, and you just put a little check mark wherever you find when I think of it like again, like how many of these can I find in there? So, you know, he thinks I'm stupid. Well, that's definitely mind reading. It's definitely you're probably taking it to something in the future about what's going to happen about that. But for here, that's mind reading. For here, it's, you know, discounting the positive. Has he ever thought anything positive about me or said anything positive about me? Um, you know, it's it's all or nothing. It's it's a bunch of ones that are kind of similar. Um, but I'd say those are those are the two main things. Now, there are different questions you can ask depending on which kind of cognitive distortion this is, but a lot of them fall under the lines of what you were saying, basically, like, is this true? Can I prove that this is true beyond a reasonable doubt? How do I know it's true? And it I actually love, I don't know a ton of her stuff, but I know Byron Cady has um, you know, this work that she does where it's, is it true? How do I know it's true? And who would I be without that thought? I love that. Um, it's just oof, that's so meaty. Um but yeah, it's it's just asking yourself, like, okay, so if maybe I'm going a little overboard by saying like he thinks I'm stupid, could we take it down 10%? I'm not saying that you're gonna think like, oh, he has no ill thoughts about me and everything's fine, but can you take it to like he disagrees with me on this point? You see how that takes it from like a nine to a six. And it's so much easier to live your life at a six than a nine, of like, this is the emergency. And you touched on something earlier about like, you know, these thoughts that you have, these that you have to kind of untangle from when you were younger. I fully believe that so much of our imposter syndrome, so much of these cognitive distortions come from how brutal children are with their words. Um, I see it happening to my children right now. They're they're six and nine, and it's really like because before this, there they they see the possibility in themselves to be any and everything. They believe they can do anything, they have this growth mindset. And then all of a sudden, other kids start coming in and being like, no, you don't. And it is that that um primitive instinct of like I must be part of the collective or I will die. Um, because that was true. You needed to be part of a group to survive. So, but basically being told over and over, like you're a piece of crap, um, it starts to over a number of years, it starts to sink in. And it kills it becomes your normal, right?

SPEAKER_01: 30:38

It does. When you have whether it's a what's it, whether it's a fellow kid in class or whether it's a parent or whether it's a neighbor, we are we are bombarded as children. And from children, I say from zero to let's say 12. Uh, you know, teens is a different thing, but when you're when you're a young adult and your brain, your brain and your ego jumps to your defense subconsciously, right? So the brain's job is to protect us at all costs, and kind of like you talked about uh the the hierarchy of of needs, right? The childhood brain ego doesn't know how to do anything other than protect itself by creating a sub-op uh an operating program in its brain that you build upon as an adult. And and I would say for most of us, until you really face something difficult or you have a really jarring experience, you may not even be aware that you have that program in your mind or that's how your brain is operating. So, so from an emotional agility perspective, because that's our topic today, in order for you to be agile, you have to know what your base operating program is is doing and saying, right? And that's self-awareness at its core, is understanding who am I? What are my drivers? Why do I think the way I think? Why do I see the world the way that I do? Why do I assume that when someone disagrees with me, well, then he doesn't like me or he thinks I'm stupid, right? It's asking those probing questions when you have those thoughts in the moment. Because if you wait and a week goes by and you have another experience and you think the same thing, we're right back to where we started. And so I would say that um uh Carly and I were just talking about this on another episode about being comfortable being uncomfortable, that you cannot maintain emotional agility without being uncomfortable. It's not a comfortable place to be. It doesn't feel great. It's not like pom-poms in the air, yay me. I'm being mindful and intentful and purposeful. And I no, it's not easy, but it's the only place that growth happens is when we are uncomfortable because it forces us to face the truth. And then we get to determine do I accept the truth and allow it to control me and determine my next steps? Or do I face the truth and go, I don't want that to be the truth anymore, and now I'm gonna make a different choice? And that's not an easy place to be. So I'm curious, um, Rachel, when you think about emotional agility, and and let's say we have a listener who's like, well, that all sounds nice, but I don't even know where to start or how how to how do I even go about this? What advice can you offer uh to someone who wants to do what we're talking about, but really struggles with knowing how?

SPEAKER_00: 33:17

Oh boy, that's a great question. Um to me, one of the most useful things uh out of the many, many, many, many things I've tried and read about is understanding at a deep level and saying to yourself over and over when you're really, really uncomfortable during this, this is what learning feels like. This is what learning feels like. So it's not like you feel like it's the end of the world, right? Like all these bad things are gonna happen. It's like this sensation in my body is what it feels like to learn and to level up, you know, and understanding that and changing that definition for yourself of what those feelings in your body are. It's it's almost like a more advanced level, but it's a shortcut because your beliefs are just thoughts that you've thought over and over and over, and they've worn pathways in your brain like water does over a stone. And you can decide which ones to place by just repeating them over and over and over, whether you do that through affirmations, which is not my thing. Um, but when I'm when I notice the thought, I'll be like, uh uh uh, you know, or I notice I'm saying something out loud, like I was saying to someone yesterday, I knocked over a cup of coffee, just as I was supposed to be getting on the phone with them. And I was like, yeah, I just I'm such a clutch. I was like, you know what? I am learning to be more careful with my body. This was an anomaly, you know. Uh, but I don't want to reinforce it by saying it out loud because your subconscious, especially when you say something out loud, it doesn't understand that that's not a command from you. That's right. So 100% saying these things out loud to yourself, even if you don't believe them, even if it's in the car where no one can see you. Um, and just practice having these thoughts. Uh, those are those are really good beginner places to start with this. But the number one I would say is like take yourself off the hook for one. Like you're not doing anything wrong, you're not a failure. Um there are this isn't something that people teach. Um, but now that you have a few of these tools, ask yourself which one of these do I want to try? Which one sounds doable for me? Just try that one and try it once or twice. Play with it. It's an experiment, it doesn't have to be a commitment.

SPEAKER_01: 35:46

Well, and like affirmations don't work for you. They're they're a godsend for me, right? I have things that I have on sticky notes that I'll say out loud when I catch myself thinking something or saying something, because I'm like you. If I'm eating something, it's probably on my clothes somewhere. Or if I'm drinking something, I probably like I am that way. And so when you said that, I'm like, oh my gosh, I say I tell myself all the time I'm so clumsy, I should quit doing that. So, like, this is a growth project. This is a growth, you have the rest of your life to determine how you want your life to go. And if you allow old patterns of behaviors or mental attitudes or thought processes that you know are unhealthy for me, I can run to a bag of chips and food because the old me said that this made me feel good. That's the old version of me. I still do it at times. I'm not perfect. We're human. Let's accept the fact that we're human. But my intentions moving forward are to challenge myself in those moments and say, well, why do I want to want to go to the bag of chips? Because I know that it's gonna make me feel worse after it's over. What can I do instead? Pick something healthy. So we're we're at time. Um so, Rachel, what's the name of your podcast in case people would like to get involved? You can find her on LinkedIn, obviously. That's how she and I connected. But for folks that really want to get more of Rachel, uh, what's what's the name of your podcast? And tell us a little bit about that.

SPEAKER_00: 37:05

Absolutely. Thank you. Uh, it's called Psychology of Customer Success. And I talk basically about customer psychology, organizational psychology, uh, basically about how you can't make anyone successful through logic because humans are not logical. Uh, here's how to actually work with the way the human brain works. And it will help you be more successful, help you understand yourself, your customers, and how to make all of you, including your company, more successful.

SPEAKER_01: 37:34

I love that. Well, talking about emotional uh agility, the truth is that life will always be uncertain, but it's how you choose to respond that determines your strength. When you embrace emotional agility, you give yourself permission to grow, to be flexible, and to thrive even in the unknown. So as we wrap up today's episode, Rachel, thank you so much for your amazing wisdom. Obviously, I'm a massive fan. I listen to podcasts. I'm gonna spend more time with you because I'm I'm learning so much from you too. Um, but thank you for for giving of your time and being willing to share your experiences.

SPEAKER_00: 38:08

Oh, this was a joy. I I could do this for two more hours. You're talking about my favorite stuff. Uh, I will spare your listeners. Um, but yeah, this is so much fun.

SPEAKER_01: 38:16

Yeah, I agree. All right. Well, for my listeners today, as we wrap today's episode, I want you to be inspired to feel deeply, to be fearless and live authentically and keep leaning into your feelings and your emotions because when you do, that's when real transformation starts from within. So I hope you have a great rest of your day. Happy Friday, and we'll see you next week.