Meet Your Host Spencer Zimmerman (aka Dr. Z)

In this episode we introduce you to your host, Spencer Zimmerman. He's known by his patients as Dr. Z.

His wife interviews him to help you learn more about who he is, what drives him, and some odds and ends.

Transcript

This episode is going to be a little bit different. One of the questions we had is, Dr. Z, what has led you to where you're at? What inspires you? And we just want to know more about you. So I'm joined by my wife, Sarah, who's going to interview me and help you learn more about who I am and answer some of those questions. So here we go. Okay. So, twenty twenty four, we started it in freezing cold Idaho. We ended it in very sunny, beautiful weather, Tampa area, Florida. So what made you decide to switch your clinic up? So we got the new clinic, Peak Brain and Body here in Tampa. Now, I work with a lot of people who deal with cognitive decline. who are either in dementia or heading to dementia. And one of the most important things when you deal with these individuals is they've got to be active. You just have to be active and. as I talked to them I was like guys like you've got to become more active and I was like and they're like but it's so cold here for most of the year they're like summer I've got no issues but for six months seven months it's just not nice enough to do anything I was like crap like they're right you know I wasn't as active as I would like to be. So that was part of it was long-term health, right? Where are we going to be the healthiest? But then the other part was I've got five girls. And when we went on trips to places where it was warm and they could play in the water, they were so much happier than they've ever been. Now that's not to say there weren't times in Idaho. they were happy because there was but when was it it was during the summer when it was warm once it got warm outside they behaved differently and everything else so it was about getting them to an environment where they could just be happier year-round and for them that comes from activity just like for us places we can be more active so that's how we ended up in Tampa in I'm making that transition in twenty-five and ultimately shutting down a physical location where I was helping a ton of people in Idaho and was doing really, really well. Awesome. I am really excited for this. I hope you're really excited for it too. So let's get to know you a little bit better. So growing up, I wanted to be a radio DJ. What was something that you wanted to do? I know little boys usually tend to be like firefighters, police officers. What did you want to do? Yeah, so I was not your typical little kid who wanted to be a firefighter, police officer. You know, I think there was a little period there where I wanted to be a pro soccer player, but I don't know that I ever dreamed to that level. somewhere in elementary school I wanted to be an orthopedic surgeon don't ask me how a second or third grader decides they want to be an orthopedic surgeon but I played sports you know there was lots of injuries and well orthopedists were the ones that dealt with those injuries so I was like cool you know I can be someone who deals with these injuries and I really stayed on that path for most of my schooling. That's what I wanted to do. It was, hey, I'm gonna be an orthopedic surgeon. So you're obviously into medicine now. Is that something that ever wavered or was it always something like this is the plan, high school, college, this is what I'm doing? Yeah, so I'm clearly not an orthopedic surgeon, right? Would I have been happy doing it? Probably. Is it something I could even do at this time? No, not really. So something a lot of people don't know about me is that I've got chronic back pain. I've had chronic back pain since the age of twenty and there's no chance at all I could stand and do a surgery. If you ever have a conversation with me in person, if you pay attention, you would notice that I don't stand in one place for any more than about three to five minutes. I shift my weight. I move around and I have to constantly adjust because if I don't do that, I'm in pain. So needless to say, didn't become an orthopedic surgeon, but there was something else that happened. I was visiting someone in the hospital, had what was termed a seizure or seizure-like event. And after that, really, I was kind of developing anxiety and panic attacks anytime I go into a medical setting. So I didn't go to medical school. And I really kind of went through this phase like a lot of people do when your life dreams eventually die in an instant. I was like, man, what am I going to be? Right. So I was like, oh, I was interested in political science, did some studying there, you know, well, maybe I'll go and be an attorney. You know, that's something people do. Right. If you're told you need to be successful in life. Yep. You know, and really had no interest in any of those. And it was along the way with my chronic back pain. Went to primary care doctors, went to everyone. But I was just this catch-up patient, you know? Like what's this healthy, twenty-year-old, twenty-one-year-old doing in our office who has got back pain, you know? They'd rarely even make eye contact with me. It was like, well, here you go. This is what you've got. Because also with some of that anxiety that developed when I was in closed spaces, I was actually developing anxiety. So I actually bailed out of doctor's appointments. Um, if I was left in a room too long, it would get hot. I'd start feeling icky to my stomach. I didn't actually realize it was anxiety for a while, but you know, they'd come in, they didn't even make eye contact. I was like, okay, I'm clearly the catch up patient where it was two to three minutes because that looked healthy. And I then would go to chiropractors and I'm not going to say I got answers and got resolution because I didn't. but they would talk about the body working as a whole unit. And I was like, well, at least there's something there. They're spending more time with me. They're really trying. The others were just, you know, I was in and out super fast and it was medication, physical therapy, injections was really all that there was. But, you know, there wasn't a lot of You know, let's look at the body as a whole and let's really care. And I felt that at least the chiropractic side, the ones I interacted with, I understand they're not all this way, but they at least seem to care more and were open to trying a lot of different things with me beyond just being like, well, just go back to the doctor and get more medication. I remember when we first got married, we had just moved to Nebraska and your back had been hurting so much that... We drove fourteen hours back to Utah to just get these like shots because at the time it seemed like the only thing that could alleviate the pain somewhat. Yep. And, you know, the injections, they work to a point, you know, never solved. It definitely never solved anything. And I was like, well, do I want to be on injections the rest of my life every year, year and a half? Because the injections usually weren't considered long term and. There's like, man, there's just got to be something better. And it was obviously worse when you're in school and you're sitting down all the time, you know, because when I do sit, you know, I get out of the car after two to three hours, like a nine year old where I've got to stretch and everything because I tense up. Right. So I've got to be like shifting and everything else. So. I know you deal with a lot of patients that it feels like they're their last hope. Is that kind of why you do what you do now? Or is there something that influenced you to, am I getting ahead of myself? Well, I also wanted to ask you, maybe we can go back to that. You also said that you had doctors who didn't really believe that you were in pain because you were so young and you looked healthy. What about everyone else, like family members, friends? Did they seem to think the same as the doctors? What was going on with them? Yeah, it was really puzzling for people, you know, because here I was. if you wanted me to kneel down and just be on my knees for a period of time couldn't do that if you wanted me to stand in a place I couldn't do that um at its worst like if I ran on a basketball court the pounding hurt but I could run on grass and so I had people who were like man, is he just trying to get attention? Is he making this up? Because it doesn't make sense that you could do this, but yet you couldn't do that. And even now I'd say like partially like, yeah, you're, you know, it still is kind of confusing that, you know, could do certain things versus others you know like I could do things and be physically active in certain environments once again right grass probably because the ground was a lot softer than doing a basketball court basketball court was not something I could run on for a long time without getting back pain as well and so yeah there were definitely people who were like you know you're making this up you're seeking attention and that was frustrating because in all this pain and no one believes you you know why would you why would you fake that you know why it just it doesn't make sense that you would go through so many different things when you've never done that in your entire life, right? Playing sports, ankle injuries, torn a hamstring, which was because I played when I shouldn't have, you know, you were playing soccer since the age of four, right? Like you, you've always been active in some kind of sport. Yep. Always active, played sports, right? So to go from soccer to all your life to, Oh no, he's hurt. Like, even though you're still playing? Because I know when we got married, you still had back issues, but you're like ultimate Frisbee. You were playing on soccer teams. Correct. I could do things if I was moving. You know, after that point, I already had some injections, which did make it so I could do things a little bit better than I previously could. But it was still challenging because I would lock up if I was in a place for too long. I remember one physical therapist who you actually worked for. Yes. he was doing something measuring the tone of my muscles basically. And he had me stained up and then lay right back down. And he was like, you've got to be kidding me. He was like, everything I thought I was accomplishing. I am not accomplishing anything. And it's because that's how essentially dis imbalance the muscles were in the body. And so at that point in time, he gave up and said like, Hey, you know what? I don't have anything else for you. So you said just dealing with the chiropractors made you decide to go at least, if I'm going to do medical, I can just do chiropractic, correct? Correct, yeah, because, you know, there was something about the hospital setting that I was afraid of. You know, I had an ingrown toenail that got cut out, had another seizure-like event. Really, I just kind of blacked out, right, because I was watching it all. But at that point, I like swore off like, okay, well, I can't go on a surgery because I knew that'd be part of it. And with chiropractic, well, blood wasn't necessarily something that you were going to have. And I was like, well, maybe I can do like sports chiropractic. And so needless to say, I did go to chiropractic school. And while I was doing those classes there at the school, you know, the first class in college I ever actually liked was anatomy and physiology, which most of you are like, you gotta be kidding me. Um, Cause usually anatomy and physiology is not a class that people would put as like their favorite class they ever took in undergrad. I took it. But for me, I loved it. I absolutely loved anatomy and physiology. So I was like, cool, I'm on the right path. Okay. So you're in chiropractic school. How was it there that you discovered functional medicine, like the brain? Because usually chiropractors don't tend to work with the brain. When you think of them, it's adjusting. How did you find what you do now? Yeah. So one of the big things in chiropractic is they would always say the master system of the body is the nervous system. And now this is going to vary a little bit depending on the school you go to. So I went to school in Dallas known as Parker and I was actually on my way out. You know, I was two semesters in to chiropractic school and some of the loudest people were those that were very philosophical based, which was, Hey, you, you adjust, you put a impulse in the body, the blah blah blah right everything happens you don't have to worry about what happens you know you're just doing these stuff to make boards happy you know you know none of this stuff really matters and I was like this is like a religious cult and I was actively looking at different options because I was like these guys are nuts and while I was looking someone posted one day a video on our Facebook group. I was like, Hey guys, check this out. I was like, okay, cool. You know, I'm probably going to leave chiropractic school anyways. I've already paid for the semester, so I'll stay, but I've got to find out how to tell my wife that I'm going to leave. Um, cause she didn't know that I'd been looking at it for at least a few weeks. I would have supported you in your decision. I would have been freaking out, but I would have supported you. And I watch it, and it's this video of someone helping these individuals who are struggling with a wide range of neurological-based issues, dizziness, concussions, and stuff in that whole arena. And instead of me coming home and being like, hey, I'm leaving, I was like, by the way, there's this group that does some cool stuff, and they actually do seminars here in Dallas. I'm going to sign up for all of them. not just do one and see how it goes. Nope. I'm going to prepay for all of it. Right. Five thousand dollars, which was a lot of that time. Especially because I believe we just found out I was pregnant with our oldest as well. So it's like, yep, we're going to prepay so we can save a little bit of money. Like, I'm committed. It's this or it's nothing. How was your first seminar? first seminar was rough it was it was rough you know everything completely correct you don't understand everything completely and you know a little bit about me my favorite movie like pretty much of all time it's the rocky series like rocky four so whenever I did the first man that was at least the first five or so seminars I felt like rocky when he was fighting ivan drago You texted me that too. I was just getting roughed up. I was like, I don't understand what these people are saying. There's no way I'm ever going to learn this. This is too complex. And you know what? Over ninety percent of the people who start those seminars, they do not finish it. They do not get their diplomate in chiropractic neurology because it's not for the faint of heart. But you had to. You prepaid. Yeah, I prepaid and And it's what made sense. You know, if the nervous system is really the master system of the body, then we should understand how it works. And so I, I dove in, you know, and I was doing that every single month and I was actually spending more time in school studying neurology than I was pretty much anything else. So you're taking these seminars. And a clinic decides to open up based on these seminars, correct? Correct. Yep. And so you decided, well, so you joined the Parker University Neurology Club. Is that what it's called? Yep. Yeah. So you joined that club and they reached out to you guys, right? Correct. Yep. They reached out to get some interns who come in there, you know, volunteer and help out as the clinic was opening and then even it kept going after the clinic had opened so did you meet anybody there that kind of influenced you like to keep doing this like to gain more knowledge in this like or was it who influenced you while you were there Yeah, so it was a really good experience because the patients we saw, we were in Dallas at this point in time. They were flying in from other states. They were flying in from other countries. I've worked with UFC. I've worked with NHL. I've worked with NFL. Current people at that point in time, Hall of Famers, right? People who have their own TV shows. People who've had movies made about them. Billionaires. I've worked with the top of the top people. And I've also worked with people who... put together fundraisers to make it happen. And many of these individuals had seen at least ten different providers, if not more. And I see people get results in as little as one week, even though they struggled for years. It was a like. It was my mission to change people's lives because. You know, even if I wasn't able to get the answers I wanted for myself, I knew how bad it sucked to not get better. And I see people predictably get better. And that was the key predictably. It wasn't just a fluke like, oh, you know, people were coming in. We had a great sales system and we'd help one out of ten. No, it was like eighty percent or higher. We're getting results. That they were happy about now, one of the main, you know, there are a few different doctors there. But one of the main instructors for that group, so it was the Care Institute, who we did chiropractic neurology through. One of their main instructors at that point in time was Dr. Brock. And I was kind of paired with him. And there were some other doctors there as well, Dr. Rand and Dr. Shores. And then Dr. Perdue, who was a medical neurologist. But I'd say Dr. Brock definitely had the biggest influence on me. because he did both sides. He wasn't just neurology. He was also very functional medicine and integrative. And those who aren't really familiar with functional medicine, it's about how the body works and identifying where the breakdowns occurring is ultimately what functional medicine is. It's a what's preventing the body from working the way it should. And he told me like, well, if you really love the brain, it's not enough to understand the brain. You have to understand what influences the brain. That is how you're going to help the most people. Because most people, they don't really study both. If you've been to a specialist, the neurologist, they usually aren't the most versed on what interacts with the brain. If you ask them about gut health or about hormones or about thyroid or about liver and the brain, they're like, you know, that's a different provider you need to see. Um, and, and so it's very disjointed. So Dr. Brock was definitely one of the first people that had a profound influence on the path I took. So Dr. Brock, very smart. The second that you told me that he was not only a chiropractor, but that he has a nurse practitioner, I knew that you were going to want to go to nurse practitioner school. I don't know personally, like I didn't know if you actually were thinking about it, but in my head I was like, well, maybe if I don't say anything, you won't want to go to nurse practitioner school because there was more schooling than just I wrote to nurse practitioner school. And we had just done a lot of it and we had just got into a lot of debt. So I'm like, maybe if I don't say anything, he won't want to do it. But yeah, Obviously you did go to nurse practitioner school. Um, so when did you decide that you needed to do both? So it was towards the end. It was probably within the last six months of chiropractic school. And before then it was, it was about six to nine months before then that I was tossing it back and forth in my mind. You know, we, I was talking to Dr. Brock. I started another chiropractors. I was talking to the medical director, Dr. Ferdue, who's a medical neurologist. And I was just going back and forth, you know, because chiropractic scope varies depending on the state you live in. There's some things you can do and there's some things that you can't really depend on the state. And then there's some things you just can't do in general. And if you're wanting to go functional medicine side. A lot of what chiropractors do technically isn't. Correct. If you really want to do functional medicine, you really need to have that medical licensing because about half the patients we worked with in Dallas were military veterans. Lots of them were Navy SEALs and other special forces. And if you know people who've dealt with traumatic brain injuries, who've had concussions, they often end up on psych meds. They do. And we had people coming in with side effects from their medications. And as a chiropractor, you can't actually talk about it. We'd also be doing labs on them. With a lot of these blast injuries, their testosterone levels were pretty much non-existent or very low. Once again, not something I could address. And with my personality, guess what? I wanted to be able to address the whole picture. I didn't want to have to send them back to the VA that they literally just spent the past thirty minutes telling me how much they hated the VA. I couldn't be like, oh, well, you need to go back there and hope that they would address it. Or agree with even what you recommended. Correct. Or even agree because there's plenty of people who are like, oh, that's stupid. You just need to stay on those meds. So I went back to school so I could deprescribe. Most people now every now and then, yeah, I do put people on medication, but it is mostly to deprescribe because a lot of people in the brain health world, they are put on medications to treat side effects of what's going on versus to treat what is actually going on. So what was the whole process that you had to do to become a nurse practitioner? Because it's two completely different pathways in education. Yep. So during chiropractic school, cause that's when I decided to go back and I knew if I took a break, I may not go back. And if I did, it was going to be a lot harder. And we also had two kids by this time. Yep. And so I started nursing prereqs while I was still in chiropractic school. So that last semester I started it, did some more in the summer, and then I went to nursing school. So you have to get your bachelor's in nursing. So I did that. That took me four semesters to do. You did because you did the accelerated. Yep. So four semesters, not... nonstop, no breaks in the summer, which mind you, I'd already just done over three and a half years of no breaks in schooling. Maybe it was four years, right? Whenever I look at the other undergrad I did, but it had been a long time without a single break. And, but I did it, started it, went through. You know, I was working at a clinic initially five days a week and then doing hospital rotations two days a week for nursing school. And then I finished, you know, I switched jobs to a place where I wasn't going to die. And, you know, I was working three days, three and a half, you know, four days a week while doing nursing the other two days a week working through that. So you said that you were doing your rotations or clinicals in a hospital. Did you have any issues come up from? Your past experiences, you said you were afraid to be in the hospital sometimes or got panic attacks. Yeah. So I was very, very scared to go to nursing school because of the hospital experience, but also I wasn't going to be happy. So I was like, crap, I'm literally going to take this gamble on what's going to happen. And so I did, I took the gamble. because I had to pay for it in cash. There was no student loans. There was nothing like that that I could get because of the way chiropractic school was. And I did well. There was one thing where I started feeling a little off and it actually didn't relate to blood or anything like that because I did a wound care rotation, which was awesome. I actually really, really enjoyed wound care. And you see tons of stuff in there that if you just have issues, you would have not done well. Um, but no, the one scenario was actually someone who, you know, they were teenager, upper teenage, and we were doing addressing change, but it was the amount of pain they were in. So it was, so if I look back, it was in that prior time, I also felt bad for that person. There were, there was like this empathy thing with watching teenagers struggle and kids struggle really hits me hard. You know, I, I don't like it, you know, for as people are like, oh, doctors, he's not emotional at all. Like, I don't like that. It hurts. Okay. So you got through the hospital, you did. nurse practitioner school. And then what happens from there? Yep. So I did nurse practitioner school and I had a different rotation than most. So I actually had part of my rotations were done in the hospital, which is very rare. While I was doing that, I worked on a stroke unit as well as a nurse, but finished up all my rotations and then ended up moving to Idaho. There was a group that I got introduced to who were needing someone that could do concussions. So I did that, build a clinic up over six years. And I worked with a wide variety of things, concussions, POTS, dysautonomia, long COVID, chronic dizziness, chronic migraines, mold issues, Parkinson's, you know, a lot of different things. And people are like, oh, how can you help so many different things? Well, it goes back to my initial teaching of in training, you have to understand how the body works as a whole. If you truly love the brain, you have to understand what the gut's going to do to the brain. And as you learn about the gut, well, now you can help these gut issues because you've, you've learned how the body connects. And so cause and effect, correct. Cause and effect. And it's not very disjointed because you can refer to someone, but if you refer to someone who doesn't understand the connections and you both find what you find but then it's like well I found this let's I'm going to treat it and it's like but is this the right order because one thing can influence something else more but if you only have experience in one area you don't actually know what should be treated first you're just like well I found it I'll treat it and if it gets better it's better if it doesn't it doesn't but that makes things less predictable Um, so needless to say, had a really good clinic in Idaho, very successful. You know, I even did some expert witness stuff in court on concussions and, you know, I saw people from all over Idaho, also people from other states and yeah, I even testified for chiropractic to be able to return athletes to play and had it not been for COVID one of the legislators actually wanted me to help them change chiropractic care in Idaho because Based upon our conversations, they knew that the care these athletes were getting, it was very subpar compared to what it should be. So I have a two-part question. So one, was there a favorite patient that you had when you were interning at Carrick? And two, is there a favorite? You treat so much stuff. Is there a favorite that you have that you prefer one over the other? Or is it all the same for you? I don't know that I had a favorite patient at Carrick. There was a lot of them that I really enjoyed. Even in Idaho, there was lots of fantastic patients. But you don't, for me, yes, I remember the ones I help. But the ones that I never forget are the ones that really, really wanted to get better and I couldn't. Those leave scars. Those, just from knowing you personally, those are the ones that keep you up at night. Those are the ones that make you study harder. Like they kind of push you. Push you to study more, do more research to know everything that you can, because that's your your type of personality is you want to know everything like you don't like being wrong. Correct. And even though I helped, you know, eighty, ninety percent of people I saw who followed through with what I asked them to do, who did better, it was our remaining ten percent that it drove me nuts, you know, and it hurts. Because. When people come in and they tell you you're their last hope, you can either kind of disconnect from it or you make it your mission to do it. Do you kind of see yourself like you're the patient that couldn't be helped? I don't know if I see that. All I know is I hate having to tell people. who are good people that there's nothing that can be done. And it's also hard because I see so many of these people they've been, you know, I don't want to say scammed, but they've been misled. You know, like, you know, if you're a hard case, And you deserve to be told like, hey, this is really, really hard. I've had people who don't get care because I told them, look, you've told me this. You're going to be a hard case. Maybe there's only a twenty five percent chance I can help you and who won't get care because they want to be told there is an eighty percent chance, even though they're you know, there's some things that are just super, super complex and we shouldn't oversell what we can do. So I'd say that's part of it, you know, is I want everyone to get the highest level of care. And I'd say maybe there's parts of it where maybe part of it's selfish, but there are those who have jobs. And there are those who grow from what they do. Every time I help a hard patient, I grow. When someone comes in and tells me about what they've been through, they share with me their journey and then they improve you can't help but to become a better person especially when you work with these neurological based injuries and stuff and you start seeing people with their lives back and who are thrilled with what they've got even though they'll never be where they ideally would have been had the injury not happened but seeing that gratitude it changes you you know like we're so caught up in so many things in life that we're ungrateful beings you know so many humans we're just ungrateful and when you see those patients on a routine basis and I saw a lot more of those in dallas with the severe brain injuries compared to idaho but you know it just You just come home and you just view the world differently. You know, we just have been taught almost in our culture and society to let these little things be big things. And so we take for granted so much in life that we shouldn't take for granted. So do you have any regrets? We had a successful clinic in Idaho. starting from scratch in Tampa. So one of those things, right? Like I'm sure there could be some regrets, right? I wish I could have found a way to have kept it open. Um, but you learn along the way, right? I made mistakes with providers I hired, you know, I went about it wrong. Um, but everything is a learning opportunity right like sure if I could go back in time would I have went to med school from the very beginning and just been a medical neurologist sure but would I have learned anything I've learned no because I'd have been told it didn't exist because that's what the medical neurologist at carrick he would tell patients that like hey He's going to change your treatment plan. Just go with it. Okay. We're not taught this in medical school. We're not taught this in our neurology residency and fellowships. You know, they're doing things that are considered not to exist in medicine. And so results and we're getting results because we're using a different approach that now you start seeing more and more people are doing it to a level currently. But whenever I was first taught about it, it was just like, dude, this stuff doesn't exist. Like you guys are nuts. It's like, well, Our results say otherwise. And so it's been great to be ahead of the curve. So no regrets. You know, there's always some degree of regrets. It's just try not to let them control you. And there's definitely people and patients that we will miss in Idaho, but... Looking forward to building new relationships here. Yep. Yep. Building new relationships here. You know, I'm, I'm committed, you know, no more school. Um, I do a ton of continuing education, but yeah, yeah. No more school. I did think about going back to med school. No. And it was literally just for the haters. The people are like, oh, well you're a Cairo and they'd ignore the fact I was a nurse practitioner and. And the more I thought about, I talked to a lot of medical doctors in Diaz and a lot of them were like, dude, you know, and this isn't me trying to toot my own horn, but like, dude, you're smarter than most neurologists. I know I would send my family to you before I'd send them any to there. And it was literally going to be me to go and get a credential, a title. Yeah. That would have actually put me behind because you wouldn't be able to treat patients. You don't treat patients. You have to do all the four years at the beginning. So you're not able to treat patients as much. But then when you're doing residency, residency isn't about being cutting edge. Residency is about doing the highest level of the standard of care. It's not about saying, man, here's the latest research. Let's go. They would say, you guys are jumping the gun. You can't do this yet. And that's one of the reasons we're able to help so many people is we're always trying to say, what does the research show? Now let's apply it clinically as soon as we can and see what the outcomes are. Because if we're limited and only providing what's considered standard, then I have to tell people what they've been told all along is, hey, there's nothing that can be done for you. And for me personally, I'm glad you didn't because our oldest would have been graduating high school the same time you would have been done with your MD. Do you remember what I told you when, or saying to you when you wanted to go back to med school? I mean, I know you were tongue in cheek. You were, you were willing to let me do it. But I took Taylor Swift's. We are never, ever, ever getting back together and changed it to you are never, ever, ever going back to school. So that didn't happen. Yeah, but I was close. I mean, I was, I was really, really close to pulling that trigger. And honestly it was, it was picking to be a parent over a provider. Um, cause for most of the time, you know, once again, I love what I do. I don't, I don't, you're not gonna truly get that from listening to this. Um, When I first opened the practice, I did way more trips for continuing education than we did for family vacations. And it took some deaths of people around us for me to be like, life is too short. I need to do stuff. And even listen to another podcast where someone was talking. And I was like, man, if I go back to school, if I don't change what I'm doing, my kids going to remember me for being a great provider and doctor and but they would probably always think our dad loved his patients more than he loved us and that was the point where I was like man I've got it I can't go back um because that would be the message I felt I would have been sending so so Let's do a little fun questions. Okay, so we have five girls. This is the question that we get the most. So are you going to try for a boy? Nope. Nope. We've got five girls. We're done. We got a boy dog. He counts, right? Yeah, he's one of the... be the one sitting on the sidelines not getting any game time though so that's okay um favorite sport favorite sport was always soccer um loved playing soccer still love watching it so soccer's probably number one soccer you actually were thinking about being a kicker in college huh correct yeah one day I walked out football um and I was stroking it from fifty five yards so I was able to do fifty five yard field goals And, you know, try to walk on a one team. They didn't actually care about their trials. It was just more of to say they did it. Um, but yeah, I was out kicking their kicker and it was actually playing in all the games. Correct. Yep. And so I didn't, you know, ended up going to chiropractic school and some other stuff happened that, you know, so I didn't actually end up trying out again, but yes, I, I had a really, really good leg. Um, favorite team. Favorite team in soccer. I'll go back to what it used to be, even though they're kind of disappointing. Manchester United. So Manchester United back when they had Rooney, Tevez, and Ronaldo was about as dynamic as it got. Favorite color. Favorite color has always been blue. He looks good in blue. Coffee or tea? Probably tea over coffee, other than when we were in Bali, we did have some good coffee. The coconut coffee. Coconut, avocado, and vanilla. If anyone knows how to get a hold of that, let us know, because we are almost out, and I'm really sad about that. Yeah, but the regular coffee, just not so much. Okay. Let's see. Favorite place to vacation? Well, we're, so we're new on our vacation journeys. We are, um, you know, as couple, it was Fiji was amazing. And then with kids, honestly, Florida keys was, I'm gonna say number one, but anywhere where it's warm and they're active, right? So like Idaho, the water was too cold when we'd go camping or else that would have been amazing. Cause I do love the mountains. So I would say even if we did like North Carolina, Georgia, Tennessee in the summers, now that we're here, those are going to quickly hit the list because the kids love hiking and they love playing in water and having a place where they could actually do both is going to be hard to beat. Favorite outdoor activity. Favorite outdoor activity. I know you love the outdoors. Um, And the water I love kayaking or rafting. That's great to do. And then, yeah, I mean that hiking, camping, camping, I love camping. Not going to do much of that here in Florida though. So, and then of course playing sports. Um, what's your favorite thing to do with your kids? Favorite thing to do with the kids. It's camping. Camping. Camping, being in the outdoors with them by far. You taught them how to, our oldest had a light a fire, campfire. And even though like the little ones had a saw wood. Yeah. Or let's see. Anything else? I'm blanking right now. So, but yeah, so those are some, just some random questions, you know, about stuff about me. And once again, you know, we're in Tampa, this is going to be our forever home. You know, we're done moving unless we can find a way to swing Fiji, but you know, I would love that, but it's going to be here. And the goal is to really pick up where we took off and to become the premier place for people to come with neurological based issues, also chronic and complex immune based issues. So I love those and really bring full care to people. Um, you know, one of my beefs with natural medicine is we talk about holistic care, but no one actually evaluates the brain ever like, oh, well holistic care. It's like, well, no, you, you look at everything but the brain and You know, that's why the clinic grew so fast night hose because people come in with chronic fatigue, brain fog, headaches, and everyone was trying to do it from a gut perspective or from a hormone perspective. And it was like, for some of those people, that was part of the puzzle. It's part of what needed to be addressed, but it wasn't everything. No one actually looked at their brain health. And whenever we looked at their brain functionality and we addressed that, and then we layered it in, then people did a lot better. You know, so always compare it to like playing music. If you have the singer, the drummer, the bass guitar, regular guitar, right? If they're all four doing what you want at the same time, you get the best outcome. But if they're doing it louder, quieter, faster, slower, they're out of sync, out of rhythm, they're not in harmony, you don't get the results you want. Even if most of them are doing their job right, you need them all operating effectively. And that's one of the big special things that, you know, that we're gonna keep doing is that side. And then one day my goal is it's to train other providers to really put the body together because you know, yeah, I had the one mentor up front, but now people ask me like, who are my mentors? And it's like, well, for what, you know, cuz I have multiple people that I learn under because there's not just one. person who really integrates it all in the way that I've done. And that's also why, you know, I do spend a ridiculous amount of time studying. You should see how many books he has. It's taken over our closet. So, um, yeah, if you've got other questions, let us know in the show notes. know whenever you comment if you have things you'd like me to cover in the future let me know this is just one of the many episodes and shows that we are doing I'm having you know I'll do shows where it's just completely me talking about a variety of topics but I'm also doing others where I'm getting experts in the field whether they're medical doctors dos phds chiropractors you know trainers whatever it is and we're going to talk about a lot of different things because There are many different ways to view health and there's many options out there, but the biggest thing is people aren't aware of what options are available. You know, um, when you turn on the TV, all you see is insurance commercials. You see medication commercials. You don't see the commercials that show you how you don't need those medications to begin with. And so there's a lack of awareness out there. And our goal is to really change that awareness and to bring things out of the shadows because it's not that things aren't there and they don't exist. It's that there's not an awareness. And, and that's really the goal is to change that. If you could tell a patient or a person who's on the fence about getting care, what would you tell them? If it's something that I believe I can actually help, do it I'm not going to lie to you I'm not going to tell you ninety percent if I think it's twenty percent you know I I've lost plenty of patience over my honesty on that um and I realize that you don't you're not able to see the pieces of your puzzle right in the same way that I have to rely on experts in other arenas because I don't have that experience there's no amount of reading I can do that's going to make me an expert it just doesn't work that way you have to gain it through experience and that's how you see how everything works together and and that's kind of one of the hard things is There's a lot of nuances. And so people often like, oh, well, you just, you know, you're not sure. And it's like, no, in my head, I'm going through the ten different scenarios and all the nuances and how those have to play out for something to work. And so. Overly simplifying something is great for a sales tactic, but in reality, it's not that simple and. And it's hard because we know simple sells, but it also leaves a lot of people frustrated. So I'd prefer to be honest and lose some people that I could have helped then over promise and have people frustrated on that side. I think one of my favorite things is seeing you with your black or white board and just putting all the pieces on the, on there. Like, Correct. Yep. You get it. Yep. I love putting together the pieces of the puzzle and being like, here's what's going on. Here's what's connecting with that, that and that. But that's what the education I've sought out. You know, it's why like, hey, if you're required to do twenty hours of continuing education a year, I do. A minimum of one hundred, I've done upwards of four hundred a year because. Once again, it's even though I help the majority of patients, I see it's that small percentage. It haunts me. And so I'm always trying to see what are those little gains that if I can find it, I can help people, you know, and I've been led down paths that didn't end up working for patients, you know, and I've spent money. So I understand what it's like to do things and not to be sure if it's going to help because you are spending money. And I've done that plenty in my education, you know, but it was, it was a path I needed to get me to where I am today. And there's going to be more of that in the future as well. It's just bound to happen. Yep. Well, I think that's it. Okay. All right. This was fun and may not ever do one of these again.