88. The Childcare Crisis No One Is Talking About with Paul Buckley

What happens when the people shaping our youngest minds are overworked, underpaid, and unsupported?

In this eye-opening episode of Joy of the Hang, host Sharon Stevenson sits down with entrepreneur, former preschool teacher, and Ratio Staffing founder Paul Buckley to unpack the growing childcare and early education crisis happening across America.

After nearly 20 years working directly in preschool classrooms, Paul saw firsthand how broken the traditional staffing model had become—for teachers, schools, parents, and ultimately, children. So he built a platform designed to change it.

Together, Sharon and Paul explore:

• The hidden challenges facing early childhood educators
• Why teacher burnout and staffing shortages are reaching critical levels
• How traditional staffing agencies fail schools and educators
• The importance of flexibility, transparency, and fair pay
• Why supporting teachers directly impacts childhood development
• The future of preschool education and childcare in America
• How better systems create better classrooms—and better outcomes for kids

Before launching Ratio Staffing, Paul spent years in biotech manufacturing leadership, earning a Six Sigma Green Belt and leading global training initiatives. Now, he’s combining operational excellence with deep compassion for education to build a more sustainable future for schools and educators alike.

This conversation is powerful, timely, and deeply human—because behind every classroom is a teacher trying to make a difference.

If you care about education, parenting, leadership, workforce culture, or the future of children, this episode is a must-listen.

https://ratiostaffing.com/about-us

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Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:01

Welcome to Joy of the Hang. I'm your host, Sharon Stevenson. Today's conversation is about something we don't talk about enough: the people shaping our children during some of the most important years of their lives. When parents drop their kids off at preschool, they trust that those classrooms are filled with caring, qualified educators. But behind the scenes, schools are struggling with staffing shortages, burnout, and a system that often leaves teachers underpaid and unsupported. My guest today is working to change that. Paul Buckley is the founder and managing owner of Ratio Staffing, a platform reimagining how preschools connect with substitute teachers, enrichment educators, and speech pathologists. What makes Paul's story especially powerful is that this mission isn't theoretical for him, it's personal. Before becoming an entrepreneur, he spent nearly 20 years in the classroom as a preschool teacher himself. He's also also spent time in biotech manufacturing leadership, training global teams, improving systems, and earning a Six Stigma greenbelt. Experience he now uses to bring innovation, transparency, and fairness into early childhood education staffing. Today we're talking about the future of education, why supporting teachers matters more than ever, and how better systems create better outcomes for children, families, and entire communities. Paul, welcome to Joy the Hang.

SPEAKER_00 1:27

Thank you, Sharon. Nice to be here.

SPEAKER_03 1:30

I'm so happy you're here all the way from California.

SPEAKER_00 1:33

That's right.

SPEAKER_01 1:34

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 1:34

So, Paul, tell us a little bit about your journey. You spent nearly 20 years as a preschool teacher before launching ratio staffing. What first drew you into early childhood education?

SPEAKER_00 1:45

Well, yeah, and um, I think that uh to be clear, I wasn't 20 years in the classroom. So I have, I think, 20 years experience working with children directly and volunteering in different different capacities. But um, my wife has been in the classroom for over 20 years. She gets it's all that credit.

SPEAKER_01 2:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:04

Yeah, what what really um how I first got started, what drew me to working with children was honestly all of my friends and my cousin were working um at an after-school care program. And so they said you should come check it out. It's like a lot of fun, you know? And so I was 17 and I went and checked it out and fell in love with it. And and from there, I worked with preschoolers in the morning and then school age in the afternoon.

SPEAKER_01 2:32

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 2:33

And after that was through a civic organization, through a park and rec organization. And after I finished there, I was uh a lead preschool teacher in the threes classroom all day. So I was an all-day dedicated preschool teacher at that point. Um what you know, so that's what initially got me in, but different things made me stay.

SPEAKER_03 2:54

What kind of different things?

SPEAKER_00 2:58

Yeah, I honestly uh first and foremost, like my first boss, Kelly, who ran the Park and Rec department, was such a phenomenal person and such a great manager and care provider, you know, that I just none of us wanted to leave Kelly. Right. She was, you know, she was just such a fantastic person and still is. I still talk to her. And I think what really felt so at home with her, and I felt so honored to be in the position I was in, right? I really felt honored to be welcomed into people's families and lives, right? I don't think I had the I didn't have the words for it back then, but I had the feeling, right? That we are here when we're when we're working with these children, we're in these families' lives. They're trusting us and welcoming us into their life. You know, and we're making memories with these children. That to me was never that I knew and had the words for back then. I was like, man, we're making memories with these kids from their childhood. And Kelly was um a fantastic manager in a number of ways, obviously, like I said, but foundationally, what I really loved and still do and has been paramount to my success is she was very clear on the expectation of the importance of this job. Right? That sure we have a good time together at work, but this is a serious position we're in, right? We're entrusted with the lives of children. We're not here to mess around. If you're here just to mess around and think it's some job, quote unquote, you are not sticking around. That's not happening here, right? And that I just love that, you know, and uh the humanity of it, right? And the seriousness of the role. I've that's why I really just felt honored to be in it. And so though, and then of course the interaction with the children was fun, right? And but but and and uh the interact and having, you know, being able to work with my friends and doing summer camps and being able to do all these things outside was great, right? But really it was that that honor of the role is what really what kept me in.

SPEAKER_03 4:57

I love that she set that standard. I remember dropping my kids off at preschool for the first time. And as a parent, it's like heart wrenching, at least for me it was. It's the first time that you're trusting somebody you really don't know with your child, right? Unless you had, I mean, babysitters, but usually that was with family members. So when you're leaving them off at preschool and you're like, oh my gosh, I have no idea, you know, who these people are really that are going to now be taking care of my. And I was a stay-at-home mom during the early years. So to transition to that was was hard. So I love that she set that standard because it was so important that you had those relationships.

SPEAKER_00 5:36

Yeah, you know, and it's funny because I have three three kids of my own now, right? And and my wife is a preschool teacher, right, in the classroom still. And all of our boys went to that preschool. And even then, with our first one, even then, right? I got to experience it right on the on the parent side. My oldest is 10 now. But I remember, yeah, like him going to preschool. You know, I was like, even though I knew them and I knew my wife was there, it's still different. It's not my family or me caring for him. And and I'll and I'll never forget our first parent-teacher conference. And I remember like getting teary at how well and how much just how much they saw him and knew him as a person. I was so impressed and I was so relieved. You know, that's why it's so personal for me, too. This I, you know, because my children went through it. I see it. And my wife does it every day in the classroom. So I know dedication these people have, and I know the impact on the world that time in our lives has. You know, I I think to me, it's right, there's, you know, we all know the the development of the brain and and the importance of it from zero to five.

SPEAKER_01 6:42

Right.

SPEAKER_00 6:42

But I think sometimes what maybe doesn't get discussed or is maybe lost is how that zero to five development carries on throughout our life, right? And hence carries on throughout our country, you know, and our interactions, right? So it's like, you know, it's a big deal.

SPEAKER_03 6:57

We're setting the foundation, even though most of us can't remember those years. Yeah, we're setting the foundation for our future because it's what is it? It's a biological almost response that you're having as you're growing during those years, right? So it's it stays with, I'm trying to find the right words, it stays with you internally, even though you can't necessarily recall the memory of it. So yeah, it's really it's so important. Those are such formative years for for young people that a good preschool can make or break, or any preschool rather can make or break your long term development. So that's right. Yeah. So I applaud you for doing that. That's amazing. Was there a moment in the classroom when you realized that the system itself needed to change?

SPEAKER_00 7:41

Yeah, I think that came my final two years, like full time in the classroom, even though so long ago those systems were kind of still in place. Uh, and then as I began doing one-on-one recruiting for preschools, I got to then experience it firsthand too on the on the school side as well as the teacher side. But when I was in the classroom those last two years, you know, we were just constantly maxing out our ratios, right? In California, there's there's ratios that are set, right, of adults to children. Right.

SPEAKER_03 8:14

And I think in every state. They might be different, but I think everybody has them.

SPEAKER_00 8:20

Gotcha, yeah. And so and the company I was working for was just constantly maxing them out, right? And there just wasn't the time to really be prepped, right, and to be ready and to be fully present as best as we could, right? With with two people and 24 children. The children were safe, right? And they developed, right? And we we met milestones, of course, and we we hit all of our check boxes.

SPEAKER_01 8:47

Right.

SPEAKER_00 8:47

But if uh but it feels more like directing traffic to some degree at some times, right? You're not, you know, um with 24 three-year-olds and and two people, it's like you get it all done, but it's uh there's an ex there's a cost, right? An expense to it. And so that you know, made me that kind of planted a seed. And then um, but it wasn't until many years later, when I was now uh working with my first client one-on-one, helping them with their recruiting needs that I began to see behind the scenes of the current systems in place, right? The current recruiting systems, the current platforms, and the current gap in the systems. So I began to see it and experience it and and really start looking for a solution.

SPEAKER_03 9:37

Yeah. Well, before we get to that, let's talk about your time in biotech manufacturing leadership, which is very different, I would imagine, from the preschool. How did that experience shape the way you think about education systems and staffings?

SPEAKER_00 9:52

Yeah, it was very different technically, or of course. The technical physical aspects were very different. I went in as a as a temporary employee on an assembly line in the manufacturing line and knew nothing about SOPs or the federal code of regulations or anything like that, you know. But I loved to learn. And so I learned.

unknown 10:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:14

I put time in and dedicated energy and effort and and what I think the edge that I had, if you want to call it that, or I think the I should say, I guess the opportunity for me was there to succeed, aside from my desire to learn and my effort, because of my background working with children, is is to me what I believe, because I'm now working with adults who are also humans, right? And so it's a lot of the same rules apply. Right. Right. And and so I just you know, I just um put in time and energy and I was determined to learn. And I liked it. It was actually enjoyable. It was, it was, I I liked the new environment. I liked the new task, I liked the new challenge, and I like working with people. And it was a team environment. You have to work as a team in that in the manufacturing facilities, otherwise the product won't complete. You won't complete a product, you won't have a finished product if you don't work as a team. And I was also fortunate that the environment I walked into wasn't the most polished, right? It wasn't the most set. And so new management came in and they established some new guidelines. And because of that, me and another person were promoted very quickly. We got a very big promotion in a short period of time.

SPEAKER_01 11:44

Nice.

SPEAKER_00 11:45

Which I was now required, yes, I was now required to not only learn, but manage a group of people.

SPEAKER_01 11:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:53

And so, and again, because of my background with working with children and kind of how I was raised and the things I was taught by Kelly and my parents, right? This idea of how we live in the world together, 99% of my work was personal amongst the employees. Maybe 1% was technical, right? Because I can teach the technical. I learned the technical side and the skills quickly. I learned about SOPs, I revised the SOPs, I made trainings, I learned the regulations, right? So I can teach that. Right. But the personal aspect is different, right? And so as a result, you know, my manufacturing teams were were, I think, pretty happy and pretty fulfilled. And I don't say that as an assumption, I say that I know because I would proactively ask for feedback. I remember reading it, I remember reading an article about how uh uh how politicians, it was about different careers and who receives the most feedback, right? Kind of thing. And they said the politicians get the most feedback, right? Constantly polls and right. And so I was like, oh, I like that. And so I used to put I used to send out my polling, my polling numbers to my team. Yeah, you need you know, anonymous polling numbers, and I would post them in the window of my office, my polling numbers, you know, and and they weren't always great, right? There were issues, you know. And so, but I know that as a result of that, and I know because of personal connections I have still with people there, that they were happy and fulfilled, and we produced as a result, you know, and I was always up front and honest with my team and my boss. I would tell my boss, look, I really I was fortunate again to have really fantastic managers, again, right? That that saw some value in me, saw opportunity, and breathed life into me, right? And gave me opportunity. And so I was always up front and honest, and I would say things to my boss like, look, this corporate rollout thing, we'll try it. If it doesn't work, I'm not gonna use it. You know, he would say, No problem, go try it. You know, and so my team, my team would know, it's not middle management, you know, so my team would know and say, hey, look, it's a new thing coming. We'll try it, we'll see how it goes. If we like it, we'll keep doing it. If not, don't worry about it. That kind of stuff, you know, and I would have lots of conversations with them about what they want to do in their life, right? I would say, I don't take it personal. If you don't want to be here, this is a stepping stone for you. Great. I'm not personally offended. I want you to be happy. Let's get you to where you want to go. So I had lots of those kind of conversations. And again, that all came from my experience working with children, right? And being shown how to respect and honor and care for people.

SPEAKER_03 14:30

Yeah, I like what you just said. Let's get you where you want to go. It's so important if you find out what people want from their job, from their life, from their whatever, right? I mean, to be able to be that mentor and how do we help you get there and reach your goals? So I love that you kind of take your ego out of it and you just are like, I want to be of service to you, and then you get more out of them, right? It's just brilliant. More people don't think that way.

SPEAKER_00 14:56

Yeah. It's funny because it's almost like I said, tell my team all the time, I'm like, look, we have the CFRs, right? We have the SOP. It's like a cheat sheet. It seems, it seems like it shouldn't be allowed, but it's actually our job. We just follow these rules. Don't worry about it. And the same as same as those conversations, it's almost like you just asked a question.

unknown 15:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:15

But for some reason, yeah, I don't know why it doesn't happen more often.

SPEAKER_03 15:18

A lot of people don't ask the question. I don't think I was ever asked the question in my uh in my life, but I would have loved. So we mentioned something called Six Sigma principles, which was new for me. So how does that connect with preschool education? Do you see any parallels between the two? First of all, what is it? What it is.

SPEAKER_00 15:39

Yeah. Yeah. Six Sigma is uh is basically uh the idea that in a in a standard process, right? Or in a in a process or processes, there's a standard deviation, what one sigma, either one way down the line. If I'm simple, if I'm simplifying it, you have a line, right? And you have your your desired outcome for your process, right? And and what you do is you design the process so that you'll still hit your target even within six sigma. So within six standard deviations of your process, you'll still hit your goal. So basically it's like a really dialed-in process where your goals are achieved almost no matter what. And um uh there's and there's also uh there's more to it, there's a lot more to it, and there's also different belts, there's black belts also that are a black belt, a six sigma black belt is an actual position you can have and be hired for. Company will hire you to be their six sigma black belt. Um anyway, and so for me, I don't know if it applies to preschool, but for me, it applies to the preschool kind of staffing procedures and processes, right? So for me, I think about it in the sense that it has allowed me to build a process that I believe is successful for teachers, schools, and children. Right. So for me, I think my my understanding of it and experience with it in the thought process being we need a system that's gonna hit the target for all of us, not just one deviation or one area. We need a process that benefits teachers, schools, most importantly, the children. And I believe our our platform that we have does that.

SPEAKER_03 17:26

And the platform is ratio staffing. So what makes ratio staffing fundamentally different from traditional staffing models?

SPEAKER_00 17:35

Yeah, the well, first and first and first and foremost, we have only the ECE world on our platform. So there's no other other other industries on there. So that in itself is different, right? It's just the ECE world, which doesn't exist right now as a whole marketplace except for ours. So that in itself is different. I think also what makes it different is that we don't take a standard staffing approach or thought process because ECE is not a standard process. The preschool world's very different than other industries and other worlds, right? It's it's it's a world in and of itself, and it's again, like we said, it's so important and so integral that there has to be a thoughtful approach in how how the platform is built, which is what we took. So it's an intentional approach, an intentional design to uh to serve the ECE world only. And so what you'll see different is there's a lot of there's a well, I should say there's a lack of these kind of restrictions and buyout fees and uh requirements, right? There's actually a lot more flexibility built in. So schools have a very low entry point to the platform at $25 a month. Um, from there, they then buy a bank of credits, and those credits can then be used for different features on the platform. So it gives them flexibility and agency, right, to use what they need, not be locked in and restricted to certain features only per month and this kind of thing. Also, the teachers themselves have lots of agency and flexibility. No one is telling them where to go, no one's telling them what to do, right? They're given the opportunity to find positions they want, set their availability, right, find schools they want, and and really work based on their need, not an agency telling them what they have to do. So it's yeah, it's definitely different in that way. And and same goes for the schools. You know, there's when a school signs up with an agency, there's a lot of restrictions in that contract and in that agreement, especially around hiring and retaining the teachers full-time.

SPEAKER_03 19:49

So under this program, schools can choose teachers and educators and they can negotiate fair rates between each other. Is that correct?

SPEAKER_00 19:57

That's right. So a school can a school can find teachers in a number of ways. One being they can filter and search profiles and contact that teacher directly. And our our filters and our profile areas are again strictly around the ECE world. The schools also can post a job and receive applications to that job if they want instead. So they can set a job out and passively and receive applications, or at the same time, if they want, they can also proactively search out teachers in our database and contact them directly. And they can filter.

SPEAKER_03 20:32

Yeah, can keep going, I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_00 20:34

Yeah, so and they can and they can filter uh based on what they're looking for. They can filter based on age group experience, philosophy experience, this kind of thing, and find the teachers they want to find and then contact them directly.

SPEAKER_03 20:46

So as you're talking, it sounds to me like it's an Indeed type platform specifically for educators. Am I getting that right?

SPEAKER_00 20:56

Yeah, there's definitely features similar to Indeed in that way, where they can post a job and have the profiles and receive applications. It's also different in the sense of there are, again, the bank of credits and set rates. There's no per-click cost feature. There's no there's no restriction on contact information, right? There's more direct connection to the teachers as well. Also on the teacher side, what's different is the teacher isn't sifting through, again, other agencies or organizations that are not involved in the ECE world. They also don't have to worry about seeing the ads, right, that are that have been sponsored by the schools that can afford it only. Because from the teacher side, I don't think teachers always understand that when you go on these larger platforms, if you search for a job, that first one or two pages, similar to Google, are only the schools that can afford to have their ad on those first two pages. So the school you love might be 20 pages down, and you're never going to see it because they can't afford to have their job on the first two pages. Right. So we don't we don't run it that way. So teachers have more access to more opportunities up right up front.

SPEAKER_03 22:05

Is this available nationwide or is this only in California?

SPEAKER_00 22:09

So we're in California and Toronto, and we're expanding to Rhode Island now as well. And so we're working on different marketplaces. What we're trying to do is intentionally go to markets that we're familiar with and know the need is there. So like the Bay Area, LA, really all of California, Massachusetts, Rhode Island area, New England, we know is needed there, as well as Toronto, or the three markets that we know uh we're familiar with and know the needs there. Um, been in contact with people in those regions who want it and need it. So that's what we're doing right now. But we definitely will be expanding to other regions across the country because the way it's built, we can be anywhere. And the way the platform is built, we have region-specific requirements in there. As you as you log on and select your region, you'll see the requirements for your profile update for your region.

SPEAKER_03 22:59

And I would imagine you can put in with a within a 50-mile radius or something, right?

SPEAKER_00 23:04

Right. That's right.

SPEAKER_03 23:06

Okay, cool. What are some of the biggest struggles that schools face today when it comes to staffing?

SPEAKER_00 23:12

Yeah, what I find is is honestly this connection, right? There is there's a there is a concern around the number of teachers in the field in general, right? What I found is that there is potentially a lack of teachers who are already qualified per their state, like units completed, experience completed, that kind of thing, ready to go. But there I have not found a lack of people who want to be involved, right? There's people who want to be involved who want to be a teacher. That's the connection that's the problem. The schools and teachers just cannot connect. So that's what I found is has been the biggest sticking point is the connection. And then as a result, finding them within a short period of time. Schools have a hard time finding teachers, not only finding them, finding them in a short window. It's a it's a lengthy process right now to find a teacher and bring them on, right? Of course, uh, there's always the substitute issue, also finding real-time subs. Subs real-time, ready to go for you, same day, that kind of thing. So we have we have that resolved also on our platform. You can find real-time subs. You also can find subs for the future as well. But so I guess the three points I found is connection, the timeline of connection, and then real-time availability.

SPEAKER_03 24:32

So you think there's enough people going into the field of education and graduating with teaching degrees?

SPEAKER_00 24:38

Yeah, I think there's enough people who want to be want to be involved. And I also think there are a number of organizations out there, city funded, county funded, this kind of thing, nonprofits that are helping teachers acquire those you that that education, which I'm so excited about. There's lots of companies out there doing a lot of good work. Um, and you know, and so I think that's I've seen I've seen a big change in that, at least a big shift to more of those agencies coming out.

SPEAKER_01 25:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:04

So that's been great. I love that. So there's definitely opportunity to get educated. There's opportunity for work. We just got to get them connected.

SPEAKER_03 25:10

I yeah, no, I think this is just it's so interesting. I've been doing a lot of podcasts recently about education. And one thing they said is in our area that enrollment is down, part of it is due to the charter schools, and part of it is due to homeschooling becoming more popular. So yeah, you know, it's been interesting with all the obviously there's a lot of news media about what happens in schools nowadays with the school shootings and different, it's not always doesn't feel safe, right? So um it's interesting to see the shift. Are you seeing that where you are too? Is there a shift in enrollment?

SPEAKER_00 25:46

I know, I don't know about school age enrollment as much. I know that with the in the Bay Area at least, and I think LA is the same, with this expectation and requirement to come back to the office. What I've seen and heard is that in preschool enrollment is increasing because people are coming back to the area. And so there's been an increase in really the biggest increase has been in infant toddler programs. More infant toddler programs are opening up and more infant toddler enrollment, and then the need for infant toddler teachers has has increased.

SPEAKER_03 26:22

Interesting. Okay. Yeah, interesting. Because the cost has been rising too over the years. I mean, I thought it was expensive when I put my kids in, you know, especially toddler ages. I don't think I started my daughter until she was three or four, but she's 24 now, so I can't remember a long time ago. Anyway, I thought it was expensive then, which is why I stayed home and took care of her for the early years. I'm like, I have I have a son too. I'm like, I can't have two kids in daycare. It's I might as well stay home, right?

SPEAKER_00 26:47

Exactly. Yeah, exactly. That's that's how we felt about it when our uh first two were little or smaller, I should say, a little later. We did the same thing. We both worked part-time. My wife worked part-time as a teacher. I was in the part-time kind of recruiting because we figured if we put them both in full time, forget it. We'll be paying all the money we're working for to someone else. We might as well make the less and save it and be home.

SPEAKER_03 27:08

Yeah, I think that's a challenge a lot of people face, even more so today, for sure. So you have described traditional staffing agencies as predatory. What specifically did you see that concerned you?

SPEAKER_00 27:22

The traditional staffing agencies, I should say, are I'll clarify, are ones that I mean are providing substitutes to preschools, the kind of substitute substitute agencies I've seen being predatory because the process goes like this. The sub-agency employs the sub. They lease them out to the preschool at an hourly rate that's pretty steep. The the teacher has no say in where they go. They have to go wherever they tell them to go. The school has no say in who shows up. They just get someone showing up at their door. If for some reason it works out, which it has, where the school and the teacher, it's actually a match and the school has an opening and they want to retain that teacher full time, they have to buy that teacher out of their contract. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 28:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:20

Now, all these things are I don't are allowed, obviously, in in our country, and they're allowed to make their money and do their thing. The concern I have is to me would seem most detrimental and and in some ways to me a more of a predatory nature is if that substitute quits the agency, they're not allowed to be hired at the schools they've worked for for a period of time. They put hiring blackout dates on them. Which means now this teacher, even though they've quit the agency, has lost the freedom for them to choose where they want to go. Right. Now, I don't know how enforceable that even is, but the schools are so petrified they're gonna be charged that fee, they don't go near them. Right?

unknown 29:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:04

Now, that to me is unacceptable. But what really did it for me, what made it worse, for me, like the nail in the coffin, was I began hearing from teachers during these interview processes that they're going, I don't know why I haven't been hired away from the agency. I've subbed at so many places. They're unaware of the buyout fee. So they don't even tell them about it. Maybe it's somewhere in the contract they sign. Yeah. So these poor teachers walk away thinking something's wrong with me. No one wants to hire me.

unknown 29:34

Right.

SPEAKER_01 29:34

Right?

SPEAKER_00 29:34

Which is to me not cool at all.

SPEAKER_01 29:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:37

And then on top of that, what they what they don't see, again, based on the kind of opaque nature of the process, is the schools are saying, Oh, they're just a body in the room. They're just show up and sit there. Because the school is unaware that the teacher has no say in where they go. For all we know, that teacher has no experience in the age group, has no experience in the philosophy, but they're just sent out there. Right. So, so it's really detrimental to the teacher's career, right? And to their their personal emotional state, also. Right. And so to me, it's like I don't agree with any of that, right? And so I just, I don't like it. You know, again, they're allowed to have their business. I'm not, I'm not saying you can't run a business however you want to run it. I'm just saying I don't agree with that. And so I wanted to find a different way forward. And so we have our platform to resolve a lot of that.

SPEAKER_03 30:26

How long has your platform been available?

SPEAKER_00 30:30

It's been available. I had um a platform, a manual sub-platform a few years ago. This current platform now, this iteration now, the full marketplace, was finished being coded August of 2025. And we've been tweaking it and refining it ever since. And so now, as of like March of 2026, we have everything ready to go. All the features, the whole marketplace, um, everything's ready. So we're really excited that we have all the software of the world now.

SPEAKER_03 31:05

That is exciting. So, what's surprised you most since launching?

SPEAKER_00 31:12

One was the amount of subbing that was worked out and done ahead of time. It sounds like it sounds small, but my assumption was a lot of the subbing would be real-time needs. Someone calls in sick.

unknown 31:25

Right.

SPEAKER_00 31:25

I need someone right now.

SPEAKER_01 31:27

Right.

SPEAKER_00 31:27

Majority of it actually has been getting subs prepped to come in later to cover for medical leave, to cover vacations, that kind of thing.

SPEAKER_01 31:35

Right.

SPEAKER_00 31:36

And then again, something I was most was I was surprised. I don't know why it's always, I'm always, it feels funny saying this. I'm not sure why I didn't think about this, right? But I was I was surprised and and really I was so excited to hear that the feedback from schools was my teachers are now using their vacation and calling in sick like they should, because they know someone's someone's coming to cover their classroom. Right. And so I was like, I don't even I don't know why I didn't see I was so focused on I don't know, just having it that so so teachers are excited that their school have the platform, their schools using the platform because they know a sub will be in. They know someone will cover for them, right?

SPEAKER_03 32:19

So that to me was was was able to take vacation no matter what, and just call in sick when they were over in Europe. Is that how they were doing it?

SPEAKER_00 32:27

Yeah, I don't you know they know what what happens normally is they don't they don't call in sick, they don't take their vacation. At all. Right? Yeah, yeah, it's because they feel guilty.

SPEAKER_03 32:37

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 32:37

Right? They're worried. They're worried no one's gonna come cover.

SPEAKER_03 32:41

Okay, gotcha. Gotcha.

SPEAKER_00 32:43

Right. Yeah so that was surprising, right? And that was nice to that was really nice to hear. Also, what's been surprising is um how vast and how similar the need is. Talking to different schools, different people in different parts of the country, and in Canada, it's it's a similar experience and a similar need, just about everywhere in the country so far. And I've talked to people.

SPEAKER_03 33:04

Yeah, well, I would imagine, yeah. I mean, yeah, people want to, and plus a lot of these people are childbearing ages. They want to take time off to have their baby and they know approximately when they're gonna be in the hospital. And yeah, so there's all kinds of reasons, right? Or you need to schedule a surgery and you want your classroom covered. I think that's great. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:24

Yeah. Yeah. And and just the lack, just the the feeling and experience with the larger platforms and the inefficiency of it and how unsuccessful schools are using these standard platforms has been the same experience all across the country, which was surprising to me.

SPEAKER_03 33:41

Yeah, I think it's gonna be huge. It's such a need. How difficult is it to balance mission and business at the same time?

SPEAKER_00 33:48

That's really difficult for me. It's because that's not I don't come from that. I don't yeah, because you know, I want to I want I want everyone to connect and have it and be happy. You know, that's that's what I want. I want the mission to me is paramount, right? So I think the the balance for me is is leading with that heart, of course, leading with my heart. But also remembering, like I learned in manufacturing, that people like to say safety first. But actually, the first rule is right to operate. If we don't have right to operate, meaning meaning we've broken the law, there's no reason for it to be safe because no one's here. No one has a job. So I saw I try and think about that. The mission is paramount, but I also try and make sure that we need to have right to operate, meaning we need to be functional in an operating business first. Otherwise the mission goes nowhere either. So they have to be hand in hand.

SPEAKER_03 34:46

Yeah. It is a balancing act though.

SPEAKER_00 34:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 34:51

Right. Have you had a moment yet where you realize this is actually making a real difference?

SPEAKER_00 34:57

Yeah, I think my first so when I had my first manual sub platform, which is then this marketplace and grew into, my very first sub platform that was quote unquote hired away, like retained by a school was I I get goosebumps thinking about it still. She, you know, she she was a bilingual teacher, Spanish English. And when she, when I first met her, she said to me, admittedly, she says, Paul, I prefer to speak Spanish. I'm a little bit older, she says. I don't like the computer and platforms, but I need to find some new work. And I was like, great, that's why we have this, you know. And sure enough, within her first week of subbing, she was hired and retained at a Spanish-speaking preschool. And she got back to me. She's like, Paul, I love this. She's still there. This is seven years ago. And she was, no, sorry, this was my this is my sub-platform. So it's like four years ago. And so she was like, you know, I love it. I never would have found this job without it. I'm I'm I'm me personally, I'm close to that school still. And I was like, man, that's exactly what I'm talking about, right? We need, there needs to be this freedom and flexibility and real exploration and other ways to connect. It can't be just one size fits all with these other platforms. So that to me, I was like, that's I know it's making a difference, even with that one person. And then when I began to hear the feedback of teachers being happy and taking their time off, I knew we had something. And that it was, it was, we had to, we had to keep moving with it.

SPEAKER_03 36:26

That's a great story. Thanks for sharing that. Why do you believe investing in educators is really an investment in society itself?

SPEAKER_00 36:36

Well, because the because those educators are growing society, right? Those educators, you know, they're they're they they they mean that's you know, that's it's some everyone, everyone has to be taught at some point in our life, right? We all are taught. This idea of being a teacher, to me, never ends, or being taught never ends.

unknown 37:00

Right.

SPEAKER_00 37:00

And and when the foundation is being set from zero to five, who who's more important in the world? I don't know anyone else more important, right? And so, and all because because how I think about it, I've said I've said this, I've said it before, but to me, it's true, right? The the point being, everything that we believe the world needs and how the world should live and exist is happening in those preschool classrooms. It's happening right there. Right. And for it to go out and flourish and thrive in the world, you need supported, right, honored, fulfilled teachers to do that. If we're not taking care of them, how do we expect them to take care of them? Right? It's that age-old, it's nothing new, right? If if they're not being cared for and their tank is empty, how are they gonna be able to take care of those children? And they shouldn't be expected to. Right? The expectation shouldn't be they have to take care of it all on their own. And figure it does, you know, we don't treat any other uh career or industry that way.

unknown 38:01

Right.

SPEAKER_00 38:01

So why are teachers treated that way? Especially preschool teachers. Uh I don't understand, you know.

SPEAKER_03 38:06

And they're heroes, because that's I think zero to five is a really difficult age group. I really think that that's, you know, when I look back at parenting, zero to five is, you know, because I mean it's difficult in that they can't do much for themselves, right? So they need a lot of assistance. But it's also so joyous because they're seeing everything for the first time. And to keep seeing things over and over again through their eyes, it's really so much fun, right? To realize, oh, that's the first time they've seen a rainbow, or that's the first time they've put their fingers in paint or whatever, right? It's just there's a lot of and those are those are really fun moments. Don't you agree?

SPEAKER_01 38:47

So much fun. I do. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 38:49

Challenging, right? There's like the word no comes into their vocabulary.

SPEAKER_00 38:53

And yeah, I'm a four-year-old now. So our boys are 10, 7, and 4.

SPEAKER_03 38:57

And so we're still in it. You got all boys, either.

SPEAKER_00 39:03

All boys, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 39:04

Okay. Are you gonna keep trying for a girl?

SPEAKER_00 39:07

No, we're done.

SPEAKER_03 39:09

You're done? Okay. Is that your wife's mutual?

SPEAKER_00 39:14

No, it's mutual. Three's plenty.

SPEAKER_03 39:17

We're done.

SPEAKER_00 39:18

Yeah, we're done. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 39:20

Three is plenty. I got one of each. I'm very lucky to have a boy in a girl. So my girl can take care of me when I'm older. My son doesn't talk to me anymore. What qualities make someone truly great with young children?

SPEAKER_00 39:35

Well, that's tough. You know, because we need all the qualities, right? Because we have all the children, right? So we have all the people, meaning everyone's different, right? So I think I think we can have a set a set set of qualities. We need to have that mix of multiple people. We need we need the village. We need all the qualities. But if you if I have to make a list and choose, I think boy, I think you have to you have to find you have to have the ability to remove yourself right and have that balance of confidence and lack of ego at the same time. Right? Because it's those teachers that really trust their knowledge of the children they're watching and caring for that can step back and allow the children to try on their own first. Not dangerous, obviously, not jump off a whatever by themselves first, but to resolve conflict on their own first, right? To explore on their own first and just to observe and and be that unbeknownst to the child, that structure for them, right? So I think to uh to be a great childcare provider and a great teacher, I think you need first and foremost that that empathy, right? That desire to breathe life in, to turn someone's light up, not to dim someone's light. You need that, I think. I think that goes across all teachers, right? Of any background and skill set and whatever. As a team, everyone has to have that desire to turn someone's light up and not dim it and remove themselves from the situation, right? And, you know, and plant that tree you're never gonna see, that kind of stuff, right? You have to, I think you have to have that. But overall, skill set, I wouldn't stick to one set skill set because it won't be one person with the children. It'll be the it's it's a team. And so we need all those skills, all that background.

SPEAKER_03 41:35

Yeah, I love that answer. It's reminding me. I have a girlfriend who teaches um early childhood also, and she told me a story about the kids will come to her wanting to resolve a resolve a conflict, right? They'll say, so-and-so took my toy, and they'll want, you know, Miss Ashley to get involved. And she's very good at putting it back on them and saying, you need to figure out a way to resolve it on your own. Like what would, or asking the question, what would be a good way to resolve this? And then just and and because I think you want to go in and solve the problem, right? Even as an adult, like sometimes we're not taught to communicate very well either. So sometimes you just want to go fix it. And it's so good that she's just I love how she told the story of now. I I put it back on them to have the curiosity and discover ways to interact in a positive way. So you're absolutely right. It takes, yeah, but I can see times when teachers might be frazzled and tired and just be like, just give me the damn toy.

SPEAKER_00 42:33

Right. I mean, of course. The same goes with my own children, right? I would love to say every time I'm patient and say, hey, come on, let's work through it, but I'm not. Sometimes my tank is empty, and I'm like, look, that's enough. I don't care. It's over, give it to me, right? We're shutting it all down.

SPEAKER_03 42:50

I know. I know. I love the psychology of we have to be really patient parents, but or or caregivers or teachers. And but there are times when you're exhausted, right? And especially in a classroom with a ratio of two to 24 three-year-olds running around, you know.

SPEAKER_01 43:06

Right.

SPEAKER_03 43:07

They can be trying, I'm sure they can try your uh your energies at times. We're gonna move on to AI because let's everyone's talking about it. So we hear a lot about AI and technology replacing jobs. Do you think human connection in early childhood education becomes even more valuable in that kind of future?

SPEAKER_00 43:28

Oh, yeah. Yeah, I I I, you know, I love this idea because I know the idea, but I love the what's happening because all it does is speak more and more to the value of preschool teachers, the value of in person connection, right? The value of community, right? That's to me, that's all it does, is prove the point that I don't have a problem with AI being used in the world, right? In certain ways. I get it. And it's it's here and it's gonna be used, and it's it's being and it's happening. So it's not like we're gonna roll back that clock and put the genie back in the bottle. That's not Going to happen. What I see instead, what is going to happen is more in-person connection, right? Is increased value in a preschool teacher in a community in person. Right. So to me, it's all it does is speak to the necessity of your child being around other children, being around other humans and meeting face to face and playing together and learning together. To me, that's all that does. And later, as they grow older, perhaps they'll use AI or whatever the next iteration is, right, in their life as a teenager, an adult, or whatever, but it doesn't take away from the availability and prevalence of AI doesn't take away from the opportunity to meet with a preschool teacher in person, right? It doesn't remove the teacher from the world. So not with preschoolers, at least. So I'm not to me it uh to me, I like that it doesn't really apply to us in that way.

SPEAKER_03 44:52

I like that you're so passionate about community and connection. That's why I created Joy of the Hang. It's all about connection and making because I do. I fear that as we get older, certainly um, there's a big issue with isolation in our world and people feel more isolated, even though we have all these great ways of staying connected, right? So I do love that you're so passionate about it and setting that stage early. Hopefully, it's something they carry with them through life because it's critical to our longevity and our health that we stay in.

SPEAKER_00 45:26

It really is. Yeah, I loved, I loved um hearing about, I forget which interview it was on, but I read some some articles about it as well. Those studies done on like strong connections and weak connections in our life and the benefits of those quote unquote weak connections, just even like the person at the coffee shop, the newsstand, how it having those weak connections in life really can uh speak to your longevity and happiness. And like I love that because I have I love being outside and being in my in my neighborhood and our community here in San Francisco and having these acquaintances and weak connections and my strong connections. You know, I to me I like I love that. I love being a human out in the world with those things. It's so nice to hear the science behind it too, you know, the benefits uh of it in our life and our longevity. I'm like, oh thank God. I'm glad there's like even science to it, you know.

SPEAKER_03 46:13

Well, if you're interested in learning more, I wrote I read a book recently by Dr. It's Vibeck Murphy. I follow him, and he I think the name of his book is called Together. But anyway, talks a lot about he's the one that did a huge study and discovered that isolation has become an epidemic in our country. He's used to be a surgeon general, U.S. surgeon general. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:34

Right. That's right.

SPEAKER_03 46:35

Did did a lot of research about that. But I'm also very passionate about it for lots of reasons. So what worries you most about the future of education and then what gives you hope?

SPEAKER_00 46:49

I think Yeah, what what worries me, and I guess has been kind of worrying me, is less and less human connection and even, or I should say less not human connection, but I guess more kind of tangible connection, tactile connection, less books, less textbooks, right? Things being on the computer all the time, right? The screen time in classrooms, even starting in kindergarten, this kind of stuff, right? That that to me was always my kind of ongoing larger concern that there's lack of tactile, textile, textile even feeling and sensory exploration in school. I'd like to see more and more sensory exploration and more human connection in school. And what's been reassuring is I think that some of that's coming. I think some of that tide has been shifting. I was reading about a couple of smaller school districts that are going back to textbooks out of the uh the request of the students. The students wanted books back, which I love. Yeah, and so I so so that I think it's funny. It's this funny kind of juxtaposition, right, of like the prevalence of AI coming, yet some of this feeling of let's get back to some older ways of doing things. You know, it's a funny so that so that to me, I think is reassuring for me that this idea that people do want to be in person, they do want to meet people, they want books and things, and parents I know want children to be out exploring and feeling and having, I guess, um old-fashioned skills, right? I think there's been like a an increase in in enrollment in trades and that kind of thing, which I love to hear, right? So I think maybe there's a there's this happy, you know, maybe there's this happy melding, you know, of a return to trades and return to manufacturing and a return to skilled labor. Maybe there's a return to that. And AI takes over other stuff. But maybe there's maybe there's a return actually to that, you know, is what I think about. Yeah. Um but that's that that's my only my only kind of concern for a while now is this idea of less sensory exploration and less kind of tactile feeling of things. And I'd like to see more of that.

SPEAKER_03 49:02

And what gives you hope when you think about education? What gives you hope?

SPEAKER_00 49:07

Yeah, I I think that I think what gives me hope is I I know there's so many people out there who care. There's so many people who still care and have a love for it and do it for the love of it. Right. I know they're out there. I've met them, I've heard them, I know they're there. I know there are so many people far more educated than me and far more qualified than I am, who are out there doing it, right? Who are out there on this pursuit of ensuring, of ensuring the the betterment of our families and our children and our and our future. You know, so that I always remember that too. There's plenty of people out there doing it, not just me. There's so many people who care and who are trying, right? And so that's what gives me the hope and reassures me. People like yourself, right? These things matter. The conversations, these platforms matter, and so many people are doing it, right? And so that always I'm always reassured that I'm not alone in this want and care for the world and for our society.

SPEAKER_03 49:59

Yeah. I like what you said about books, and hopefully you're right in that people are going back to them. I find that when I read a book, I retain it better than if I read it from a Kindle or from my laptop and I don't like reading it on the screen. I'm I like to flip the pages. I like to get the old-fashioned highlighter out and highlight different sections, and I like to, you know, turn over the dog ear and remember the page that it was on. You know, and I know you can do all that stuff uh digitally. I I understand, but I think I'm from an era that it's like there's something about the smell of the book, the feel of the page, all of it that really is impactful for me. I don't know if other people get that same experience, but when I look at a screen, I don't get that same sort of, I don't know, just that whole experience is different for me. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_00 50:52

I feel the same way. Yeah. There's a friend of mine, I haven't verified this, so I don't know, but I imagine someone out there does and can. There is supposedly science around this idea, too, that when you read a physical book, your retention is greater than reading it electronically. And and he uh he's a my friend's a writer and a poet that previously used to work for a textbook company. And so that a textbook publisher. Uh, and so he was the one telling me about this this science around the retention. And I'm sure it's true also because of just my own personal experience and everyone else I know. But also I read, you know, a couple of things on human memory, right, and retention. And one and one book that I loved in particular was Moonwalking with Einstein, right? About about memory. And in there it talks about a lot about how the brain memory functions and why. And this idea of association, right? So I think if you have more than one level of association, your brain can retain it. So if you smell the book, you feel the book, you highlight it, right? You're touching the page. I think I think that actually does help with retention physiologically, also. I'm I'm I'm not an expert on it, obviously, so I'm not saying for sure, but I think that's it is true. I think there's something to that.

SPEAKER_03 52:05

Well, and I think it slows down the pace of the reading, too. I think it makes it forces you to be intentional and slow down a little bit and really absorb it. At least it does for me. So fingers crossed that you're right about the going back to the whoop.

SPEAKER_01 52:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 52:23

My favorite thing, reading books to my kids when they were little. So, you know, so hopefully we're losing. We love it.

SPEAKER_00 52:31

Yeah, we read every night. We read the, you know, the our boys are always got books out and doing stuff, and we do bedtime books, and yeah, we love it.

SPEAKER_03 52:39

It's the best. If you could redesign early childhood education from the ground up, what would be the first thing you'd change?

SPEAKER_00 52:46

Oof.

SPEAKER_03 52:48

Sorry, I'm throwing you out some hard ones.

SPEAKER_00 52:54

I think, I think first and foremost, if I can wave a magic wand, I would change the societal perception, I guess, right? I would ch you know what I mean. I would change perception around the importance of it. I think that foundational perception and respect has to change. I think from there, then everything else kind of rolls. Then you have a different pay scale. You have right different uh respect, right? So teachers are paid differently. Teachers are, you know, everything's different, I think, with the because in my opinion, the teachers should be the should be on par with lawyers, doctors, that kind of thing. Now, I don't mean on par I mean that the the pay scale should be similar or the respect should be similar. You know, I don't understand why it's not. So I think if I could rebuild it from the ground up.

SPEAKER_03 53:41

Yeah, so just clarify for me, what do you think the perception is now of specifically early childhood teachers? Do you think that they're seen more as babysitters and therefore not given the respect?

SPEAKER_00 53:54

That's right. I think I think on the whole, the perception is you're just watching kids. Like you're babysitting, you're just taking your quote unquote just taking care of kids, as if that's like nothing. You know, and and it is a hard balance too, because because the educational requirements for the positions in some states aren't great, meaning there's not a lot of units required to be an official preschool teacher, right? But that's not because the rest of the education isn't helpful or necessary, it's because we need easy access to ensure we have enough teachers in the system, too. Or you can't have so many barriers where no one becomes the teacher, especially when it's so expensive to live in the country.

SPEAKER_01 54:33

Yeah. Right.

SPEAKER_00 54:34

So it is like this hard mix, you know, of getting people in and ensuring they're qualified. Right. And so I think if the perception was different, maybe we'd have we'd have different government programs ensuring payment or ensuring compensation, ease of access to education, you know, and ease of access to work. Right. So I think would be would be a different approach if the if the perception and if the if the if the society gave the value to it or valued it like they should.

SPEAKER_03 55:05

So I'm gonna ask you to educate me now because I'm not that familiar with California. So in Maine, most of the childhood, the early childhood centers are privately owned. So the teachers are being paid from an owner. Um, so I'm assuming it's from the money we as parents paid them, right? So in California, are they mostly run through the government? Or is early childhood education, are the teachers paid through your tax dollars?

SPEAKER_00 55:35

Or is it it's the same, yeah. Same in California, there's lots of private. It's private, yeah, privately owned. And then there are there are uh uh you know a number of grant funded, like county funded, like local civic programs too, right? That are either either funded or subsidized, right? And the subsidy then goes to teacher wages. So there is a government subsidy to ensure teachers are getting paid a certain wage. You're only getting that subsidy for your wage if you work in those city-county funded programs.

SPEAKER_03 56:04

Okay. So the privately held one, the wages are determined then by whoever owns that particular facility.

SPEAKER_01 56:11

That's right.

SPEAKER_03 56:12

So some can make more and some would make less.

SPEAKER_01 56:15

Yep, that's right.

SPEAKER_03 56:17

Okay, got it. What kind of world do you hope today's children inherit?

SPEAKER_00 56:21

I think about my own children, you know. I hope they inherit a world that is collaborative, right? And works together and and looks at the whole, is what I hope. Right. I hope that they they inherit a world in a country where we work together and we think of others, honestly. You know, if we can think of others, right, and we can trust in this process together and win together, is the world I want them to live in and have.

SPEAKER_03 56:49

Yeah. Sadly, I'm not sure they'll inherit it, but I sure as hell hope they create it.

SPEAKER_00 56:54

Right.

SPEAKER_03 56:55

Right.

SPEAKER_00 56:55

Right.

SPEAKER_03 56:56

Yeah. So we're gonna start with our speed round.

unknown 57:00

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 57:00

I can pull this the last word, just one sentence for each. You ready? I'm gonna fill in the blank on the first one. Number one, a child needs more blank and less blank.

SPEAKER_00 57:13

More play less curriculum.

SPEAKER_03 57:16

Oh, I like that. You think they learn more from play?

SPEAKER_00 57:21

We're talking zero to five, yeah. They need they need more play and less curriculum.

SPEAKER_03 57:27

I like that. Number two, the best teachers always the best teachers the best teachers always love and laugh. Oh, I like that.

SPEAKER_00 57:40

And number three, one thing every parent should remember is one thing every parent should remember is you're doing a great job. Right, you're doing the best you can, right? And be proud of you doing the best you can.

SPEAKER_03 57:55

Yeah, I think they need to hear that more often. I know I did.

SPEAKER_00 57:58

I do.

SPEAKER_03 57:59

There were many a trip to Walmart when I didn't think I was doing so well with my kids and throwing stuff. Oh God. Number four, success means I think success means contentment.

SPEAKER_00 58:16

I'm content, fulfilled, I'm successful.

SPEAKER_03 58:19

I like that.

SPEAKER_00 58:20

Number five, the world would be better if we all Yeah, I think like I said, the world will be better if we all win together and work together.

SPEAKER_03 58:33

Number six, one lesson children teach adults is one lesson children's teach adults is that our emotions are real.

SPEAKER_00 58:44

We have emotions. Let's live in the emotions. Let's stop denying the emotion.

SPEAKER_03 58:49

I like that. I like that. Number seven, last question. At the end of your life, what do you hope people say that you changed?

SPEAKER_00 58:58

Yeah. Um I I hope at the end of my life that I hope my children say that I changed, you know, cycles in our families' lives.

unknown 59:08

Right.

SPEAKER_00 59:08

I hope I hope people say that the Paul I really hope Paul people say Paul did his best. He did his best and and that that changed some cycles.

SPEAKER_03 59:17

I love that. Well, Paul, thank you for this conversation and honestly, thank you for the work you're doing behind the scenes to support the people shaping the next generation. I think today's episode is such an important reminder that when we invest in educators, we invest in children, families, and the future of our communities. If this episode resonated with you, please share it with someone who cares about education, parenting, leadership, or creating meaningful change. And if you're enjoying Joy of the Hang, make sure you're following the podcast on Apple, Spotify, or YouTube so you never miss an episode. Until next time, stay connected. Reach out to someone you care about, and remember small moments of connection can change a life. See you next week. Thanks, Paul.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:03

Thank you, Sharon.