Perfectly Seasoned
The podcast about all things culinary.
Perfectly Seasoned
S3 E30 Hungarian Goulash
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Goulash - The original Hungarian comfort food.
Hello and welcome to Perfectly Seasoned, the podcast about all things culinary. I'm your personal chef, Greg Strom. Today on Perfectly Seasoned, are you hungry? Because it's goulash all day on Perfectly Seasoned. Stay tuned. Goulash is Hungary's most famous culinary export next to chicken paprika. It's a very hearty and comforting soup or stew, and it's made from beef, potatoes, onions, carrots, and lots of sweet paprika. Hungarian paprika, I might add. It dates back to the 9th century, and the core elements are still the same, still with generous amounts of paprika and root vegetables and chunks of beef and all of that. Nothing has changed about that. The only thing that has changed is the number of mothers and grandmothers that have been born since then and how many different recipes we have. Joining me on the phone today, Chris Steinman, by the way, I have known since we were in the first grade. So don't even ask how old we are. And Kristen Byron from Wheeling, West Virginia. So I did something rather amazing today. I actually connected two different people on the same line. So good for me. I can hang up. Drop a mic drop. Mic drop. The first question that I have, I and this is this I have to ask you both this. Full disclosure: did you follow this recipe exactly as written and instructed?
SPEAKER_01Yes.
SPEAKER_03Chris.
SPEAKER_02I did until I realized that I didn't have caraway seeds and I'd had to substitute fennel seeds. But beyond that, yes, I am proud to say.
SPEAKER_03Well, caraway seeds are actually optional because in some areas of Hungary where they have goulash, they don't use in that in certain recipes, depending on where you're from, they don't use caraway seeds in it. So you really wouldn't have had to use anything in there. But thank you for trying.
SPEAKER_02Oh, I know, right?
SPEAKER_03But I might shock you someday. But listen, how many times have you heard me say cooking is not rocket science, but baking is chemistry? You can change things easily in a recipe without really doing too much damage, but you can't do that when you're baking. I'm going to start with you, Chris, because first of all, I have to ask, have you ever made goulash prior to this?
SPEAKER_01I have not made a Hungarian goulash before. So I came to this recipe with an open mind, waiting to, you know, re ready to see how this was going to come out, as opposed to our previous podcast where I had made the dish with different recipes a number of times. When I was a little boy growing up in Ohio, there was a dish called hamburger gulag.
SPEAKER_03Yes, I remember that. Oh yes.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and my mother would make it with the ground beef, and she had she she canned her own vegetables. So she would bring up a a can of her canned tomatoes and probably some onions, and then you put macaroni in there, and when it's almost done, you melt some cheese over the top, probably velve, and and that was called goulash. So that's what I grew up with.
SPEAKER_03Yes, yes. And uh it's interesting you bring that up because that recipe technically in other parts that it's one of the most popular recipes in the country for many years. It was very big in the 60s, very 50s and 60s and the early 70s. And it's technically it comes from an Italian dish, it's called Johnny Johnny Marzetti. So the the version you're talking about, I grew up with as well. Mom did call it goulash, but when I finally saw what a real Hungarian goulash is, it was nowhere near. It was nowhere near. But that's a flavor memory that I'll never forget because it was very good. What were your impressions of this recipe?
SPEAKER_01This is described as a hearty beef stew. And when I finally got ready to serve it, and I I said, well, this is more like soup than what I would call a stew. And I know that there is a goulash soup, so I'm wondering if how how similar a goulash soup and this goulash recipe would be. I sent you another goulash recipe just for comparison. But anyway, I thought there was just too much rottenness, it was too too much liquid. And I think it it could have taken more than one and a half pounds of beef. And using the cooking time that were in the recipe, my vegetables were still more firm than I would prefer. So it needed more cooking time. The biggest problem that I had was fool that I am. It said 15 minutes prep time. I thought, oh, okay. And I thought, well, there's a lot of vegetables to cut up, so I better give myself more time. This dish was still an hour past our usual dinner time before it was ready. So we sat down to eat at about nine o'clock. So I was kind of hangry. Hungry, angry.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Well, uh my for the most part. Oh, first of all, thank you for the recipe. I did look at it and I compared that with several different, and the one that you sent me is it's much more traditional. It's a much more traditional version of goulash. You could make it a even this one, you can make a little thicker because I did find it wasn't as uh thick as I would have thought, because there again, I also thought it was going to be more uh like a uh more of a gravy sort of consistency. But the recipe is basically just a guideline, and once you once you try try it the way it's written, you you're free to try whatever is gonna work better for you the next time. And my personal preference would be instead of two to three tablespoons of flour. First of all, technically in Hungarian goulash, you don't usually use a flour to thicken things up, but it does say two to three tablespoons of flour. I think the next time I'd probably go with a third of a cup of flour. So it gives you more than just a broth. Because the the flavor uh the flavor was there, but it was a little thin. I totally agree with you on that. What did you think of the the seasonings?
SPEAKER_01I liked the uh paprika. It was very savory. But uh you know, there it was good, but the recipe I sent you, it called for a quarter cup of paprika.
SPEAKER_03I saw that.
SPEAKER_01I think that would have been sp well that was a sweet paprika. So I don't know. I'm I wanna if I make this a recipe this dish again, I would try that recipe.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, well, I've been even saw some uh recipes that call for more than a quarter of a cup. They call for two types of paprika, and it's over a cup and a half combined. So I can't even imagine. But jump in here, Kristen. How what was your what was your feeling? Because you guys made it, and how was it received?
SPEAKER_02I I made it the day before and refrigerated it and then just reheated it on the stove for guests, and they really liked it. I agree with everything that you have both said. I I would actually double the amount of beef. And maybe I felt that way because it seemed thin and brothy. Maybe that kind of contributed to that perception, and maybe if I thickened it up, I wouldn't feel like it needed quite that much more meat, but I've, you know, like the red meat, so I you know, I would I would double it. I don't think you could go wrong with doing that. Let's talk about paprika.
SPEAKER_03Okay.
SPEAKER_02So many paprika's, so many different types of paprika's. And I happen to have what was labeled as just like a straight-up paprika. And then I had one that was labeled as smoked paprika. And I was going, I usually order all my spices from a place called Penzies. Order them. They do a great job of explaining on their website exactly what you know, exactly what you're getting, what the flavor profile is. But unfortunately, I didn't allow myself enough time to order from them. And so I went to our local grocery looking for hot paprika and sweet paprika, and I could not find anything that was labeled as such. So I took my two paprika and and so then I Googled it. And of course, Google says, well, smoked paprika can be hot or sweet. I'm like, great, great, this is getting me nowhere. So then I tried to sample a little bit of them, and darn it, I couldn't really tell much of a difference. So I used the the the stuff that was labeled regular, just paprika, I treated as the sweet and used, you know, the tablespoon, and the one that was labeled as as the smoked, I used treated it as the hot and used that for the lesser amount, the teaspoon. And I think it turned out there was a little bit of a tang to it that I would like to have tempered somehow, but I don't know, and and I'm attributing it to the paprika mix, that I didn't do the paprika mix quite properly.
SPEAKER_03Okay, I can address that. The paprikas that we get here in this country, unless it says Hungarian paprika, is it in my estimation is faux paprika. The the difference is in in Hungary there's a specific type of pepper that they use to make paprika over the in in Hunger Hungary. And uh the difference in flavor and Chris, I I I I have a feeling you'll agree with me on this because you uh you tasted the the the different paprikas that that I sent you. So the sweet paprika is really delicious, it doesn't have any kind of a bite or aftertaste, it just has kind of a nice sweetness that's that's an undertone. And the hot paprika is hot, and you gotta be really careful with it. And the smoked paprika.
SPEAKER_02I used the optional red wine probably contributed to that somewhat. So probably what I was missing was that little bit of the hot paprika to to temper all the sweet.
SPEAKER_03Well, I'll tell you, we all three grew up in, I'm sure, with the same jar of paprika in the spice cabinet that our mothers had. And it was on every it was on every every casserole, every deviled egg. I mean, that's what we grew up with as paprika.
SPEAKER_02Oh no, no. It ours gathered dust. My, you know, in my household growing up, salt and pepper were the exotic spices. It was yeah.
SPEAKER_03What do you think about that, Chris?
SPEAKER_01Oh, yeah. The the spices when I was growing up, what what passed for chili in my house, there there was no chili powder in it because my father was kind of allergic to it, I guess. My mother said he didn't dad didn't like chili powder, so she never put it in in her chili. So anything like a uh any goulash that wasn't the hamburger variety was like, nah, we're not bothering with that.
SPEAKER_03Chris, I I'm laughing, Kristen, because Chris and I, we grew up literally, we were maybe uh a half a mile from each other our whole lives. And yeah, and well what we ate, we ate almost exactly the same food. I mean, coming from Fostoria, and and Chris, you can you can agree or disagree. I there was a certain palette of food in in Fostoria that everybody ate. It was the same, you know. The they called it beefaroni now, but it we it they all eat the same thing. So so gr I'm laughing because I I when I decided to put this recipe in the uh podcast, I and it called for the Hungarian paprika. Of course, I wanted to make the authentic recipe. It's very hard to find Hungarian paprika in just a grocery store. I do use Hungarian paprika, and I can taste a difference. And it's only because I've been using it for so long I don't use any other type of paprika. So, but that could be the issue right there, Kristen. That could have been the issue right there.
SPEAKER_02I think that would have made uh now the guest really liked it, and it it wasn't it it was good, it just didn't knock my socks off. But I I think that the paprika is probably what made the difference. I agree.
SPEAKER_03And you know, just to mention a little bit about smoked paprika, use it very cautiously because it is very smoky and it can ruin a dish so quickly. So if it says a teaspoon of smoked paprika in whatever recipe it is, start with a half. And work your way and work your way if you need to, because you don't want it to taste like an ashtray. So and it will. Chris, how did your your company did they enjoy this?
SPEAKER_01I did not invite our usual friend to come over because he made it very clear that he does not care for spicy foods. And even though I would say that this was borderline spicy, more savory than spicy, but still we have invited him to a Super Bowl buffet, and he really didn't enjoy that because that wasn't his kind of food. Well, we don't eat this kind of food in in uh Cuba, so and he's an older gentleman, so he's entitled to his opinions, but uh I was not going to put him in an uncomfortable situation. So I put three quarts of goulash in my freezer and I've been pulling them out little by little and trying to figure out okay, how can we save them?
SPEAKER_03Can I make a suggestion then? If you make a little bit of a cornstarch slurry that that would help thicken it up, what did you pair it with?
SPEAKER_01I went to one of my uh favorites, which I uh discovered on a cruise years ago, trumpeter smallback by Rutini. It's from Mendoza, the Mendoza region of Argentina. I I I like the trumpeter red wines, and they're very reasonably priced.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I had a a really inexpensive Rioja, and I thought it went very nicely.
SPEAKER_03Thank you both, and let's let's head over to Cynthia for wine o'clock. Well, Cynthia, you're up. It's time for wine o'clock, and this recipe is Hungarian goulash. What what did you come up with for this one?
SPEAKER_00Okay, so I went with Hungary's most planted red grape variety, which is, and tell me if you've heard of this, tek francos.
SPEAKER_03Nope. Hungarian wine never tasted at all.
SPEAKER_00Okay, I've had a few in my in my time. So this is also known as Blau Frankish, which we've talked about. Oh, yeah. That's what they call it in Austria, or Lemberger in in Germany, and it produces this grape is high acid, medium body, it has notes of cherry, blackberry, spicy pepper. Very, very, very popular, you know, moderate tannins, plum, raspberry. It's really very delicious. So that was my choice for your goulash.
SPEAKER_03I I have to just say that for this particular dish, it's a little heavy for a white wine, I think, but hey, what do I know?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I would say skip the white wine on this one, stick with a red, and if you can, get a Hungarian red. You know, make it a theme. You know what grows together goes together.
SPEAKER_03You you know what? I'm gonna include that that saying, I'm gonna quote you on that. I'm gonna attribute it to you, and that's gonna be on every wine o'clock list on the podcast. What is it? What grows together goes together.
SPEAKER_00Goes together.
SPEAKER_03That's what's gonna happen. Well, thanks again, Cynthia. And my pleasure. If you have any questions about today's recipe, or if you would like to be a guest home cook on Perfectly Seasoned, please email me at infotesilverschef.net. Would love to hear from you, even if it's comments. Just be nice. I'd like to thank guest home cook today, my dear friend from high school. I've known him since the first grade, Chris Steinman. Thanks, Chris. And of course, our one of our regulars, Kristen Byrum, uh, for joining me today on Perfectly Seasoned. And of course, Cynthia, you've done it again. What grows together goes together. That is my new mantra. You can listen to Perfectly Seasoned on my website, thesilverchef.net, my Facebook page, Apple Podcasts, iHeartRadio, Pandora, Spotify, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcast. And this is your personal chef, Greg Strom. And until next time, thanks for joining us on Perfectly Seasoned. And remember to eat fresh. May the fork be with you, and may all your days be perfectly seasoned.