S3 E37 Beef Bourguignon - Rebroadcast

Transcript

0:11

Welcome to Perfectly Seasoned, the podcast about all things culinary. I'm your personal chef, Greg Strom. Bonjour, mes amis. It's back to France for today's main course. Stay tuned. Well, hello, everybody. And joining me as my co-host again and taster in chief is my husband, Tim Maluk. Welcome back, Tim. Thanks for having me. Always a pleasure. Thank you. You've become a fixture. Yes, ma'am. After 31 years, you're a fixture. There we go. Also joining us is our returning guest home cook, Kristen Byrum, who I think we're going to have to build a bedroom for here. Yeah. So she can be here all the time. Hello, Kristen. Hello. And I'm really excited to welcome a fellow classmate and foodie from my high school days, Chris Steinmetz. Hey, Chris, how are you doing? I'm doing well, Gary. Welcome. Nice to be here. Oh, glad you could be here, Chris. We we have a lot to discuss today. So let's jump right into anything on a stick. And this week I've prepared a this is the melon prosciutto skewers. So what do you think, Tim? Wow. Oh my God. Describe what's in this while I'm chewing. Okay. It's very simple. Instead of having the prosciutto wrapped around a piece of cantaloupe, sure. It's just a melon ball and you you and one cantaloupe and you have the melon balls, and then you have uh slices of prosciutto that you cut in half lengthwise and roll up. And then you have the mozzarella balls. And you can buy the pearls. The pearls, or you can buy the melon ball or the uh mozzarella balls that are either herbed or plain. And then you make a you you just use a balsamic glaze for drizzling, and you do you can either make your own or you can buy some really good balsamic uh glazes. What is the greenery? The greenery is a fresh basil leaf. That is so good. This is a keeper. Well, this is this is really when you start with the skewer, you start with the the melon ball, and then you put uh the leaf, the basil leaf on it, and then you put the pearl uh or the the the mozzarella ball, and then you put the prosciutto, and then if you're using the pearls, the pearls are much smaller. You put a second pearl on there, and then the final thing is the second melon ball. Yeah, it's very refreshing. It is refreshing. I'm gonna eat yours as well. This is really good. Sorry, I can't stop myself. So and that's basically it for today's anything on a skewer or anything on a stick. I have to disqualify that because anything on a stick sounds so trashy, but anything on a skewer sounds so much better, but not nearly as much fun. No, so it's the segment is anything on a stick. Let's get to the main course, the main dish. Today is beef burgaignol, and all three of us have tried the recipe. This particular recipe is from A Taste of Europe, which is a cookbook by our friend Lauren Allen from Tastes Better from Scratch. And Lauren spent the last year traveling through Europe with her family. The Taste of Europe cookbook is a collection of 50 recipes that she said inspired her the most. And so she put that in a uh digital cookbook, which you can get on her website. And I'll include that website on my website and also on my Facebook page. Anybody who knows uh about beef burguignon knows that this is basically the French national dish, and it came to us in America via Julia Child in the 60s when she wrote the art of mastering French cooking. And it's become not only her signature dish, but it really brought this dish to a level that no other food has achieved. So I know that Chris and I have made the dish using Julia's Julia Child's recipe. Kristen, have you made Julia Child's version? I have not. I just made this version. Good. Okay. I'll start with you then, Kristen, since you've never made it. First of all, did you by any chance look at Julia Child's recipe? I did. I snuck a peek because I do have the cookbooks. Um and I have to say, this is much simpler. I mean, you don't have to start with slaughtering your cow. I mean Julia. Julia is is very, very detailed. Talk to it calmly. Yeah. Yeah, this this is a much simpler recipe, I will say. But I don't know what's not to like. Yeah. You know, wine, bacon, fresh herbs, garlic. There's there's you can't you really can't go wrong. Well, you know, the interesting thing is, and I'm gonna ask Chris this as well, but I'll just let you know. I I did compare the two because several weeks ago we we did the coco vin, which is her other uh claim to fame. Uh and there again, she elevated this dish to a status that is unprecedented. And the ingredients are very simple. And if you know the way French people cook, everything is village to village. There are probably as many recipes for cocoa and beef burguignon as there are grandmothers. Wow. So you know, it depends on what you have in your in your area, in your village. I mean, sometimes they you have different herbs, sometimes you the meat that you use might not be exactly the same. The vegetables can be, you know. So I decided to compare them side by side. And what I discovered is they're very similar, except the the version that we tried that belonged to Lauren or that was from Lauren actually was a recipe that she didn't come up with. She traveled around France and she tried these the different recipes. So this is a traditional way that beef bourguignon was made. I discovered that there are just a few differences, but the outcome is pretty much the same. I liked this recipe. The two biggest differences for me were the onions. Instead of having the the uh raw onions and you have to braise them and make them tender, she uses frozen onions, which I actually do as well. Overall, I came away with this is a very good recipe, and you hit it on the head, Kristen, that it's it's easier for people to do, I think. What what what are your thoughts, Chris? How did you find this recipe? Well, I have made Julia Child's birth bugignon several times. So that's the recipe I'm used to. But oddly um, I also went to my video collection where I have the French chef, and I watched her do the TV show, and she did her both bugignon differently on the TV show than she does it in a little bit. It's a little simpler on the TV show. Um I I made some notes on the Lauren Allen recipe. One question I had was on the uh better than bullion, there's an asterisk there, but I don't have the uh the reference to what that asterisk refers to. I looked all over. I did I had the same question. I looked all over to find out what the asterisk meant. And the only thing I could think of is it was just to give more of a beefy taste if you're just using beef broth rather than beef stock. Uh-huh. I I don't know. I that's just my opinion. What did you think? I I never use the better than bullion. I had a bad experience with a friend who put too much into a dishwasher, and it was just so salty. But I will say that Lauren's recipe is very rich. I prepared this for a dinner where we we invited uh another friend of ours over to uh celebrate our November birthdays, and we all agreed that this is very, very rich. And I'm wondering if that's because of the better than bullion or yeah that added that. Um it was almost too rich for my taste. Also, I will say there was not enough wine in this dish. Julia uses three cups of wine, and Lauren puts one cup of wine. I to my taste, that's not enough. Right. I agree. Yeah, I I would have to, I I I would have to agree with that. I was a little I was a little shocked when I I had to go back and look at the recipe again and that did did did she say just one cup? It's like yeah, it's just one cup. Wow. So but I thought, oh well, I don't know, maybe there's a reason for that, so let's just try it. Well, let speaking of the wine for a wine, it was a a a burgundy, a pinot noir. I actually used a pinot noir, but in Julia's, she actually even recommends in the cookbook a Chiante, which is so out. It just seems like that's so out in left field for a for a beef burgeignard. The whole idea is that it's a burgundy area based recipe using burgundy or wine from the burgundy region. So I I did like the that difference. I did use the well, we used uh Napa. Yeah, it was a Napa Pinot Noir, yeah, which was nice. Yeah, I don't know if you've seen how much French burgundy is going for these days, but it's not something you want to use three cups of in a dish. It's a little expensive. Yeah. I always thought that Pinot Noir was kind of a lighter flavored wine. I don't think of that as a heavy, dirty wine. No, no, it isn't, but I I I that's what we had. And and there again, that's one of the uh beauties that that uh of this of the way Lauren cooks. It's things that you have. And if I would have had, if I would have had a Cote de Ron, believe me, I would have used it. I would have used something a little bit more heavy, but uh we just happened to have a bottle of Pinot Noir, and I used almost the entire bottle. Yeah. And one in the pot, two in his mouth, one in the pot, two in his mouth. Tattletale. Hey, I was watching. So what what uh what else about this recipe? When you said it was rich, do you was it what what did you serve it with? We just no, we just had the uh the the the you mean what wine we use in? Yeah. Our our friend brought over a Spanish red wine, a uh Castillera de Diablo. Oh yes. Okay. We actually served a Spanish wine as well, a red wine. It was what's it called? Uh Mencia. That was the grape. It was grape. The grape was mencia, so it has a little bit of the it's almost like a cabernet franc, is what that comes across, but it it went really well with this. The other thing that I did notice in the in the cookbook with Julia's, she doesn't have potatoes in her recipe. No, she serves the potatoes separately. Separately, yes. Yes. I like the idea of doing the potato separately in the original because you could make as many potatoes and you could make them as large or as small as you wanted. So and I happen I happen to like mashed potatoes very much, and I think they would be great with mashed potatoes. Why wouldn't it? So so that was the one the other difference. But I I think by and large, um, I think we can all agree that it was an excellent recipe. I mean, on a scale, let's let's take a vote. On a scale of one to five, Kristen, what how would you rate this recipe? I would give this a four only because the coca van was like a five plus plus plus. So that's that takes the top slot for me, but I would yeah, I would give this a four, a solid, very solid four. What about you, Chris? I'd give it a four minus. I'm so partial to Julia's that uh that's that's my favorite. Sure. Well, of course, yeah. Well when I was making this and like thickening the uh broth with flour. I had to finally get out my little electric hand mixer to to beat the lumps out of it. And Julia Bermannier, which is a mixture of flour and butter, which I think would clean in easier and and be an easier thickening, an easier way to do it. Well, you know, that's a good point because in the cocoa van, I use Bermanni. This I I would have I would have used Bermannier as well, but I wanted to just follow the recipe because that's the first time I've ever made this recipe. Kristen can tell you, I am when it comes to following a recipe, I follow it right down to the last period. I don't, you know, because otherwise I have no comparison if I want to make any changes. I I think this recipe, if you compare it, the reason that it's a little easier, I think it's because of cooking techniques that people have come up uh have learned over the past 50 years or so in their home kitchens that are, for lack of a better word, shortcuts because it's easier to make uh it's easier to make a thickening out of water and flour than it is to actually manipulate in making a bourmannier. And I think that that simplification, and the same thing with the onions. How many people do you know that would go to the extra step of getting a perfectly sized pearl onion, peeling it, braising it, browning it, when you can just go and get the frozen bird's eye onions and drain them, dry them out, and pop them in. No, you actually have to instead of braising them, you just have to uh brown them in butter until they're nice and golden. Nice. So though those I think those are the differences that I've discovered in the two recipes. And I'm not so much against it, but I I would probably still only rate, you know, rate this a four because like you, Chris, I've well I've been spoiled. Well, no, but of course, but then we had leftovers, and like you, Chris, Greg, Isaw pulled out the flour and he was thickening the sauce when we did the leftovers. Is that he did go through and thicken that so it was it was good, but Kristen, what did you pair with this? What did you have as far as wine goes? So I used a very reasonably priced French Pinot Noir for the cooking, but I did spring for a nice burgundy to to have with it. And I think that that it did make a difference. I would agree that this recipe in particular, you really need to have a good wine to drink with this. Yeah, I think also the cut of meat as well, because I I had commented the way that you had the the meat selection that you choose that you chose, Greg, to use this, it was so good, it just fell apart. And the way that that's what I love about the this this whole recipe. Well, Chris, you you you understand this, I'm sure, is the type of meat that you use, let's say, for example, in this beef burgerignon, you don't want something that's very lean. Otherwise, you you need you need the fat in in the meat. So you you you can't you you can't buy the most beautiful chunks of beef that have no fat on them. You're gonna be really disappointed because the the meat has to it actually gets very, very soft. This is a really good recipe, and I think it's updated from many years ago to make it more accessible to people, which I I don't have a problem with, but I still like you, Chris. I go back to the yeah, I go back to the classics. What what kind of mushrooms did you use? It it says white mushrooms, but I think white mushrooms are so boring. I don't know. I I I used I picked up a package of sliced white mushrooms, and I once you uh saute them and get them nice and browned, that that to me added a very nice flavor. Yeah. Well, you know, the next time I I would do this, I would actually do this recipe again, and I intend to do it again, but I I am going to I'm going to use a cremini or even a portobello. The the smaller portobellos I think have a more meaty flavor. I'm not a fan of white mushroom. I just don't think there's any flavor in it. So what about the bacon? What did you use? Did you use bacon or did you use pancetta? I use the uh applewood bacon. The having it labeled listed as chopped, I chopped it up first, and that made it more difficult to brown. Then I read the directions more carefully and saw, no, you brown the bacon and then you chop it up. Yeah, I used the extra thick bacon. Kristen, how how did you find the sauce? Was it thick enough for you? I I thought the consistency of it was just fine. I I you know, I I did thicken it up, but it it was it was fine for me. I think I you know, I too, I followed the recipe to the letter, which is hard for me, but I did it. I did it. And I think that with a few modifications, not many, that this could be, you know, a a five fork. But but I think that those modifications would be would negate the time saving options in here. Okay. Um, but I think it's worth it. I think it's worth it to to put a little more, you know, moderate amount of time and effort into it. I think it would make I think it would elevate it a lot. Well, we we served this the second night. We the leftovers actually were even better than the personal. Oh my god. Well, we had it for three nights. I think it was three nights and because there's only two of us, and it makes a lot. And what is so great, it just kind of it's like pasta. It's like the Italian food. It's like it had marinates overnight and three two days later. What did your guests think about it? Were they were they they like it, Chris? Yes, they we we all agreed it was very rich, but it was delicious. Good. Okay. How about you, Kristen? Same same here. I agree. They said put this in the rotation. I I I would agree with that. And Kristen, I really, really hope you give that one a try. And but you you have to be able to concentrate on it because there it's well. I think when she when her and Kurt come to visit, you two go in the kitchen, Kurt and I will go and drink, and you maybe we can have Chris and Keith come up and we'll do a right. We could have a nice little team. Now that would be marvelous. That would be that would be. Oh, that would be grand, that would be fantastic. Well, we'll have to work on that. Yeah. So thank both of you guys. I and first of all, Chris, I am so excited to talk to you. I am so happy to talk to you. Thank you, Kristen and Chris. That was so much that was a great oh my gosh. Can anyone tell me what time it is? I think it's one o'clock. Okay. Let's hear from our resident Somalier, Cynthia Tosh, to see what she Would recommend drinking with this beloved, probably most famous dish ever created next to the hot dog. So hey Cynthia. Bonjour. Hello. So I'm sure you've made this dish before. I would love to hear what you have to say. Oh well, then I'm a purist, Greg. I'm a purist. I'm like, you gotta go burgundy all the way. Well, here's the thing. You know, it is in the name, as you said. Historically, it's always Pinot Noir. And really, you want to drink the wine that you cook with in the dish. So you add a little to the dish, a little for yourself, and that's how this dish goes, right? Well, that's how I get through an entire bottle with this recipe. Yes. Yes. And it's traditionally pinot noir because of the region where the dish is from, its earthy notes, the structure, the acidity. Because the wine's acidity really helps in completing that dish to tanurize the beef. It all plays a part in it. So what you don't want is something that has too strong of tannins for that astringency. You don't want that bitter taste. So you want a medium-body, finesse, nice, soft tannins in the wine to just kind of really not take away from that. Now, burgundy can be expensive as we know and getting more expensive all the time. You know, there are producers, Luigi, Joseph Driwan, among others, that do have affordable burgundies for sure. Or my recommendation is go to Oregon. Domain Druin, they have a winery out there. So they they have their winery in Bone, and then they have one in the Willamette that I've been now twice. Absolutely stunning. And you can get a more affordable Pinot Noir in that Burgundian style. Same with other producers like Ken Wright, Purple Hands, Christophem. There's plenty of Oregon producers that make outstanding Pinot Noirs that you know will give you bang for your for your buck for sure. Nice. Well, you it's interesting about the choice of wine for preparing and drinking with this, but in the original recipe from Julia Chile, she she she says use a dry uh use a Chianti. Which I you know, I have heard of that. I can't do it. It just threw a it just threw me for a loop when I compared the these two recipes because as a lot of these recipes, uh especially French recipes or even Italian recipes, you know, there are probably as many recipes for beef burguignon as there are grandmothers to bake it, to make it. Right? It really took me by surprise when I read that because the first thing I thought was going to say in there was a was a Pinot Noir, because that's as you say, classically what they use. But it's classic. Yeah. But I'm not going to uh correct Julia. I would never. No, I don't want to become I don't want to be haunted by her. No, no. I mean, I wouldn't mind. But um, you know, you could also do a French gamay. So that's a light-bodied red grape, famous from the Boujolais region, which is you know still a part of Burgundy, but it's known for bright red fruit, cherry, raspberry. Often made a little carbonic maceration to it, so it's much lighter. It's like a cousin to Pinot Noir. So that could be a fun. I just like you know, stay in France. But yes, you can do uh a Chianti as well. And you can do a red from the Loire Valley. So I just, you know, if it goes, if it once it grows together, it goes together. As they say. That's nice. When she wrote this book, when she was doing that, uh I don't how probably more Chiantes were in supermarkets for house mothers. Correct housewives. Well, that's a very valid point. I think that could also play into that, is is why, because she was trying to make this something that the American Housewife did. That is very true. Absolutely, absolutely true, because this it it was this and the cocoa van recipe that actually put Julia into all of our kitchens. So that's a very good point. Thank you for bringing that up. Well, you're welcome. Yeah, it's not just a pretty face. Okay, yeah. Well, thanks again, and I I hope that you get a chance to try both of the well. I know you've you've made have you made Julia Child's beef verga, because I know you're I have made it classically. Yeah, I don't eat beef, but I do a mushroom version when in the winter, which is like currently very cold here in Kansas City. Nice. And I do a mixture of usually lion's mane, a lot of rich, deep mushrooms that I stew in wine. And I actually made it for the first time a year ago for Brian, and I told him I was making bouffe bangnon, and he was fooled. He was like, This is really good. You're making beef, and he said, Ha, it's mushrooms. But it was so earthy and tasty he didn't notice. Well, you bring up an interesting point as well, and that is the mushrooms, because in the original recipe, and actually in the one from Lauren Allen, they that use white mushrooms, which I find to be kind of boring. So they're boring. There are so many other tasty, beefy mushrooms. First of all, when you said vegetarian version, first thing that came out of that that popped in the front of my mind was portobello. Because that's that's almost like beef and chunk instead of slice, so that you actually have some pieces. And then the other one is Cremini. Cremini mushrooms are really wonderful. That's what I used in the cocoa vat, and this, and that's what I used in the beef burguignon, and they they have a meaty texture, so that would be that would make perfect sense. I go, I have a mushroom guy in the summer, uh, my mushroom guy. And I buy, you know, my tachi, hen of the woods, chanterelles, oyster mushrooms, black trumpets, and I usually just do a blend, cook them all, and I mean they would just really work together. And when I can, morels, you know, yeah, outstanding. Well, I would like to try that actually. I think I might actually try that to use the mushroom instead of the beef. I know there's going to be a difference, but you know, it there honestly, if you think about it, there's not really any wrong way to do this because you can change uh ingredients without really changing too much. I mean, it's not beef burgayon, but it's a mushroom burignon. So it would and for those the the other flavors, the only flavor you're missing is the beef because the other flavors are what make the you know bring the flavor to the stew. So I would definitely try that. So well, you can't Yeah, if you choose the right mushrooms a lot like the hen of the woods, you know, it has a rich flavor. I've had a hen of the wood mushrooms fried, like fried chicken. This was at Jean-George's restaurant in New York, and I said, I know we're in a vegan restaurant, but this tastes just like fried chicken. It was really throwing me off, and it looked like it, and he prepared it, and it was absolutely phenomenal because it does have that rich, meaty flavor to it. So you choose the right mushrooms, you know, absolutely a great swap. I think it'd be fantastic to do a podcast on just mushrooms as substituted for meat. So I'll have to work on that. Well, in the meantime, I want to thank you again, Cynthia. As always, sage advice. Yeah. If you have any questions about today's recipes, or if you would like to be a guest on home, a guest home cook on Perfectly Seasoned, please email me at info at the silverchef.net. And Tim, I gotta thank you again. Sure. Oh, this was so much fun. And of course, Kristen, she's always so much fun to have on. And my friend Chris, it was so great to talk to him today. And of course, Cynthia, your sage advice is always very, very well received. My pleasure. You can listen to Perfectly Season on my website, thesilverchef.net, on my Facebook page, Greg Strom, Apple Podcasts, iHeartRadio, Pandora, Spotify, Amazon, and wherever you get your podcast. This is Greg Strom. Thanks again for joining us today. And remember to eat fresh. May the fork be with you, and may all your days be perfectly seasoned.