S3 E40 Pecan Coconut Crusted Grouper with Mango Salsa

Transcript

SPEAKER_06 0:12

Welcome to Perfectly Seasoned, the podcast about all things culinary. I'm your personal chef, Greg Strom. Today on Perfectly Seasoned, let's go fishing. Stay tuned. Hello, everyone. Today on Perfectly Seasoned, we will be discussing one of my favorites, Pecan Coconut Grouper with mango salsa. And joining me are Deanne Frederickson and her husband Matt. They shared the experience. We also have our friend Andrea Nair from New York. This is the first time I've actually had three people on the phone at one time, and I'm an it's a miracle that I was able to figure this out. Thank you, Matt. And also in the studio, we have our our friend Loretta Kosick. Loretta is here not as the home cook today, but she's here as the guest because she's eaten this dish that I've made. She'll be our testimonial. Before we get started, I'm gonna ask this the same question that I ask every time. Did you follow this recipe exactly as written and instructed?

SPEAKER_03 1:39

I did. Good.

SPEAKER_06 1:41

Good. Thank you. That's what I like to hear. So, okay, well, let's just start with you then, Andrea. What what because I do have a comment because I got your text yesterday, and unfortunately, it was after you had already prepared it, and I didn't get a chance to. Okay. So what what what did you think? What was your your overall Okay?

SPEAKER_03 2:10

Actually, my my my dilemma was solved, and I did not cover it when I put it in the oven. I decided that that I did need to have it uncovered because then it might get more crispy on the outside if it baked. Yes, yes. And unfortunately, it didn't. I don't know why.

SPEAKER_06 2:38

Could have been the temperature. What was the did you use uh 350 should have been the three should have been five?

SPEAKER_03 2:46

It's at 375.

SPEAKER_06 2:48

Okay. Well, the other thing is the photos that you sent me, uh the the pan was a little crowded.

SPEAKER_03 2:56

Uh huh.

SPEAKER_06 2:57

So you need you need when you're trying to get something brown like that, you need to have some real estate around it so that the it it it will brown better. So that could have been the issue.

SPEAKER_03 3:10

Okay, okay, yeah, because because I remember you made it for dinner once and it was fantastic. And I went, this is not the same. This does not taste the same as yours.

SPEAKER_06 3:26

Well, the next time you try it, uh don't uh you you might have to b uh bake them in uh you know in two batches. Oh, you don't normally, I don't know how much how much you actually made, but if it was just three or four pieces, that's usually uh if I have more than that, I do it in two batches. Or the other thing you can do, here's a little hack. What you can do is once you brown them, you can actually transfer it to a baking sheet, a larger baking sheet that has real estate around each piece of fish, and that will help because that's what I do if I have that would have made the difference.

SPEAKER_03 4:07

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. That's that would have made the big difference.

SPEAKER_06 4:10

That's what I do if I have more than four pieces. Four pieces is about all I can fit in in the skillet that I use. Otherwise, you're crowding it and you're basically steaming the fish rather than, and it's not going to get brown. So you might try that then. That's a little hack. But what the it didn't really change the flavor.

SPEAKER_03 4:32

It called for six fillets. Well, that's what I use. I use six pieces.

SPEAKER_06 4:37

When I use six pieces, I you know that this could be my fault. I probably could have mentioned that in in the recipe, is to if you you know that you need to have that you should maybe use a baking sheet. You can transfer it from the frying pan to the baking sheet.

SPEAKER_03 4:54

So maybe I and I went out and I got a special pan that I could that I could that I could brown it in and then put it in the oven. Because in my tiny little kitchen in New York, I didn't have one.

SPEAKER_02 5:10

Well, Greg and Andrea, I have a I have a question. How how big were the fillets? Because the the fillet sizes can vary so much too, because the the ones that we ended up getting were much larger and taller. And so we could fit six or or however many we needed in the pan, but if they were flatter from the tail section or something, the fish where they were wider and shorter, it it it could be more crowded. So that's something to watch out for.

SPEAKER_06 5:37

Yeah, absolutely. The size, the size of the fillet. Uh, and it also depends on the type of grouper. Sometimes it if it's an older grouper, it will be the thick stakes. If it's a younger grouper, it'll be more like a it looks kind of just like a regular fillet and not as thick.

SPEAKER_03 5:54

Well, how do you know how old it is?

SPEAKER_06 5:56

Well, by the thickness, fillet to ask. Yeah. The thickness, it the thickness of the uh uh of the piece of fish, you know, usually uh one that's a thick is a bigger fish, so uh consequently it's gonna be older. But uh I have done it, I have done it with with the thinner fillets. I've actually even done it with grouper cheeks, which I don't have you ever tried grouper cheeks, uh, Matt?

SPEAKER_04 6:26

Love them.

SPEAKER_06 6:27

Yeah, this is delicious with grouper cheeks, I'll tell you. It's really good. But what what did you find? What as far as it didn't change the flavor though of anything for you, did it, Andrea?

SPEAKER_03 6:39

That it didn't I I I don't know if it did or not, but I found it very bland. I didn't find it flavorful at all.

SPEAKER_05 6:51

Really?

SPEAKER_03 6:52

And that that was a disappointment. The mango salsa, on the other hand, was too die for. That was sensational. Even though I did not use a key lime juice, I used regular lime because here in New York, I could have no idea where to find key limes.

SPEAKER_04 7:18

Yeah, I don't know why you can find them anywhere but Florida. I mean, honestly, Greg, we would never see them in Denver either when I live there. That's not I just use regular lime juice too.

SPEAKER_06 7:26

Yeah, regular lime juice is fine. It it it's it works, it works just as well. Uh it's more the acid acidity and also the tartness, so that that works fine. But I'm more curious as to why it didn't have any flavor because it's just basically salt and pepper. That's all it is.

SPEAKER_03 7:45

So Yeah, that's all it is. And I and I and I did the the the pecans and the coconut, and it was delicious, but I just thought it was bland.

SPEAKER_06 7:59

What about you, Matt? You were the grouper and uh Dianne, you were the mango salsa, or is it the other way around?

SPEAKER_02 8:08

We're grouper and groupies. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 8:12

He did the fish, okay.

SPEAKER_02 8:15

Yeah, Dianne does not do the fish when it comes to cooking. That that ends up in my ballywick, but the when when we did it, it it really came out very well. Now I'll notice I noticed something on the recipe that and Andrea, I don't know if there's quite few or not, but we we chopped up all the pecans and the breadcrumbs and the coconut and the meaning food processor, and just a little hand blender food processor. So there was no breadcrumbs on the consistency. Yeah, oh that's true.

SPEAKER_04 8:50

Yeah, it was just breadcrumb consistency. Don't forget that, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:53

Right.

SPEAKER_04 8:54

Yeah, it was just coconut and pecan.

SPEAKER_03 8:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:57

Yeah. And so that uh we got a nice brown on it and flipped it over and then put it in the oven, but it it did have a great flavor on its own.

SPEAKER_04 9:07

So it and it was crispy.

SPEAKER_06 9:11

But there the uh there was real estate between the pieces, I'm sure.

SPEAKER_04 9:15

Okay, well, we only cook two because there's only two of them. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 9:20

Well, that it is important that real estate in a pan is it it's a lot of times in in recipes, for example, anything where you're browning beef, it tells you do it in batches because you need the real estate between, you know, so it doesn't steam. You don't want it to steam rather than brown. So it's the same thing.

SPEAKER_03 9:38

That's it's a good that should we should include that in the recipe then, because people would probably make the same mistake I did.

SPEAKER_06 9:46

Yeah, that's an easy thing. I I don't that's if I can make it easier for people, that's that's that that's a no-brainer. So as far as the the mango salsa, was there anything anything in there that you would change, change up?

SPEAKER_04 10:05

I don't think so. I'd probably add less jalapeno next time, but that's just a personal preference.

SPEAKER_06 10:10

But yeah, and that's optional.

SPEAKER_04 10:11

I I just I like I said, we did use lime juice, not key lime, and I just don't think you can find key lime very easily outside of Florida.

SPEAKER_06 10:19

Well, the one thing I don't like about key limes is they're so small you need an entire bag to even get a half a cup.

SPEAKER_04 10:25

Right, right. They are very teeny, but yeah, I thought the salsa was great, and mangoes are just amazing with fish, they're best friends. So I I thought I thought there was an enjoyable recipe.

SPEAKER_06 10:39

Well, one of the things that I have tried over the years since I've done created this recipe is the salsa seems to actually almost be the star of the dish. But I actually added some pineapple. So it's pineapple and mango. And I like the the spice of the I would probably I usually add a little bit more of the jalapeno, but that's just for Tim and myself. But for company, I don't. I I'm like you. I think you think it's food isn't meant to be painful, so you need to be careful of that. But the the I I actually when I make my mango salsa now, I actually do add some pineapple, little tiny diced pineapple chunks, and that actually I like a lot. And I've actually tried it also with mangoes and peaches. So it it it it does lend itself. This salsa lends itself to other interpretations, so don't be afraid to try and and and it could be it can be a little tart with that much lime juice and that much lemon juice.

SPEAKER_02 11:58

Well, you know, those are all definitely a salsa to accompany something, uh it's not something you'd ever grab on a just tortilla chip.

SPEAKER_06 12:06

No, no, no, but the tartness, I think, is that's up to you know, depends on how much lemon you get or how much lime juice. And when it says two key limes juice, okay, it depends on the size. The amount of juice depends on the size of the citrus. So if you have a large, large lime, you probably will get more than a small lime. So there is some ability of for you to just kind of don't put it all in at once and add it as you taste it so you can adjust it to your taste. So I whenever I do it. That makes sense. Yeah, and if I do if I do two limes before I don't just pour all the lime juice in there, I do it a little at a time until I get to the flavor that I want. And sometimes I don't use all the lime juice. But the one thing is, are any of you adver of averse have an aversion to cilantro?

SPEAKER_04 13:14

No, I love it.

SPEAKER_06 13:16

Okay, I love it. Okay, because the one comment I've had when I've made this is I I don't eat cilantro, it tastes like soap. So if you if you really you know, if you find out that somebody's ha has an aversion to it, you can actually use parsley, it works fine. Or so, but I find that myself the cilantro is it just adds a nice little uh uh you know, an additional flavor profile in there.

SPEAKER_03 13:48

So oh yeah, I I love it. I think I even used more than a third of a cup. I probably used a half a cup.

SPEAKER_02 13:56

Well, it it's a blackness that comes with it.

SPEAKER_06 14:00

Yeah, the there again cilantro. Yeah, and there again, I I think you would agree, Matt. You know, it just depends on you if you're making it for yourself, your own personal taste. I happen to like cilantro, so I might add a little more. Tim and I, you know, if it's just for Tim and myself, but if it's for other people, I I tend to be a little light-handed on it because I don't know what the other five people or six people are gonna like you know. So that the the nice thing about this recipe, I think, is that the even though you have the uh amounts, you can once you've tried it, you can adjust them to your own personal taste. So this is not in stone. This recipe is not in stone, and I've said this before, and I Andrea, I've said yeah, uh a recipe is only a guide, and you just have to do it the first time this way, so you know what to change, and you have a basis.

SPEAKER_03 14:59

So no recipe is what would you uh recommend for the fish to zip it up a little bit?

SPEAKER_06 15:06

Well, honestly, I have to tell you, I've never had a problem. I've never had a problem with it. It I would I would suggest you know, I don't know if it ta well, you know, salt and pepper, what you use to taste. That that's really that's really it. I mean you could honestly, now that you've tried it, you could put on you could season your fish however you would like. What's you know uh-huh.

SPEAKER_03 15:37

Okay. Okay. That's very good. All right.

SPEAKER_06 15:42

And Matt, what about you? Did uh was there any any seasoning that you would try with it?

SPEAKER_02 15:48

You know, I can't I can't think of any off the top of my head. I'm just thinking the different groupers and other things that I've had because we we think of grouper as one single fish, but there's what probably 30 different varieties of grouper, and then if you get it fresh or frozen, that can that can impact the flavor and make it either really fishy or something else. But most groupers are so mild. I I mean I go in with the salt and pepper for sure, but maybe if you want to kick it up a little bit, just a touch of some kind of cayenne or light chili powder or something, if you just want that zip.

SPEAKER_06 16:25

Yeah. Oh, okay. Both of you, you you've been here when I've used my that's my Rasahanu spice. I I think I would I would try a little of that on there and see how see how that is, give it a little Middle Eastern sort of bent.

SPEAKER_04 16:45

What about blackening seasoning?

SPEAKER_02 16:47

Oh, sure. Absolutely. Yeah, I would I was just gonna say that would be a good alternative too, just a light touch of the blackening seasoning instead.

SPEAKER_04 16:56

Oh, I like that idea. Yeah, I I because that won't conflict with the mango salsa either.

SPEAKER_06 17:03

And you know, they they have uh just be careful which blackening you you you try because some of them I I've tried Paul Perdome's blackening, blackened a blackened seasoning. Uh oh.

SPEAKER_02 17:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 17:21

Oh no. I I I no couldn't I couldn't cope with it.

SPEAKER_02 17:26

That's that's like a a punch and getting a black eye. Oh yeah, black eye.

SPEAKER_06 17:32

Well, here's an interesting thing. You know, you can make with with your favorite sp your f favorite spices, you can make your own mix of seasonings that you like the you to season things. So there's there's no set rule about what you can put on it. So I I mean I tend to Matt, do you tend to make your own seasonings as well? Because I I do.

SPEAKER_02 17:59

I I've you've seen our spice drawer.

SPEAKER_06 18:04

I mean, we've got uh got every spice that you can probably think of, and then I've never seen anything quite like that spice drawer, to be honest with you.

SPEAKER_04 18:13

It's my favorite part of the kitchen.

SPEAKER_02 18:16

We're not shy about uh pulling something out, and uh despite some failures, I don't mind just grabbing something and going, oh, let's let's add these two together. Or hey, you know what? Maybe maybe poultry seasoning, even though it has nothing near a chicken.

SPEAKER_06 18:34

Well, I want to ask Loretta as as a innocent bystander and just an eater, what she thinks of this recipe.

SPEAKER_01 18:42

Yum. No, I mean, grouper, I I I just love everything and about it. It was prepared perfectly. And I just and it yeah, I I agree on the mango. I mean, really, the salsa.

SPEAKER_06 18:57

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:58

Just put that in front of me.

SPEAKER_06 19:00

Well, would you consider using a different type of fish? And if so, what, Matt?

SPEAKER_02 19:04

Oh, for this? Oh, yeah. I mean, mahi mahi is is a lot easier to come by and frozen and other stuff, and I think that would be great. And I I mean, we've done mahi mahi tacos, but uh you you can even do this, you can even do that salsa with more of a a shrimp or something, even. I mean, the the process and everything else lends itself to so much. We just happen to love grouper, so we'll we'll stick by that or or maybe mahi mahi. That delicate white fish.

SPEAKER_06 19:40

Yeah, my only my only thing about the fish is I always like the thick steak. So I I look I've actually done this with sea bass. That's what I was thinking.

SPEAKER_04 19:51

Yeah, I was gonna say sea bass, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 19:53

Really wow, it was really, oh my goodness. Of course, it was expensive, it was expensive as hell, but let me tell you something. I'm worth it.

SPEAKER_03 20:04

Oh, I'm gonna, I'm gonna I am definitely gonna try that. Definitely. Bill loves sea bass, loves it.

SPEAKER_06 20:12

Okay, so here's the next question. What the logical question? What did you serve wine-wise with this?

SPEAKER_02 20:18

Standard Sauvignon Blanc with that. I you know, we did have the uh the rose. We had a a rose that went nicely with it because it it added that extra body outside of just a regular light, but it was a dozzled rose, so it's just a little bit drier. And so that worked out well.

SPEAKER_06 20:41

What about you, Andrea?

SPEAKER_03 20:44

Oh yeah, we went with the Sauvignon Blanc.

SPEAKER_06 20:46

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 20:47

That's what I that's what I had. I it was between that and the Pinot Grigio, and I went, no, no, no. Sauvignon Blanc is.

SPEAKER_06 20:54

I think a Pinot Grigio is a little too too light for I think you need something that has a little bit more acidity to uh and then the I I I also went with uh the Sauvignon Blanc, which which is my kind of go-to. But well, uh I have a feeling that Cynthia might agree with that, but who knows? We're coming up to we'll see what she says on wine o'clock, which is the next segment. So we'll we'll see if she shoots us down or not. I've been shot down several times by Cynthia, so I'm used to it. So but listen, I want to thank everybody. Thank you, Matt and Deanne and Andrea.

SPEAKER_04 21:36

And it of course, thank you.

SPEAKER_06 21:38

It's always thank you. It's always fun to have you guys on the podcast. And I I like this doing the remote thing. This is the this is the best thing since the invention of the round wheel, as far as I'm concerned. And and uh Loretta, I'm gonna just say Andrea. Loretta, thanks again for. For being a part of this.

SPEAKER_01 22:01

My pleasure.

SPEAKER_06 22:02

And let's head over to Wine O'Clock and Cynthia Tosh. Hello, Cynthia. Welcome back. It's time for wine o'clock.

SPEAKER_00 22:14

My favorite time of day.

SPEAKER_06 22:17

Well, this particular recipe, the pecan coconut grouper with mango salsa, there's a lot to unpack there, a lot of flavors. So what do you recommend with this dish? Which was a very popular recipe, by the way.

SPEAKER_00 22:32

Well, I do love Grouper, and we just don't get it in land-locked Kansas City unless a restaurant flies it in as a special, in which I am right there when they open, because I love Grouper.

SPEAKER_06 22:46

Well, I have a little hack for you if you can't find Grouper. Oh. You're more likely to find fresh cod in a lot of uh fish markets if you can't get Grouper. And Grouper works just, I mean, fresh cod works just as well. You need a thick, a little thicker fish, and the cod works very well. So if you can't get it and you and you want the dish, you won't be disappointed even with the with the cod. It's very good. So anyway, just a little habit there.

SPEAKER_00 23:18

Yeah, no, of course. So with this, I chose one of my favorite wines in the world, is an Alsatian Gwartstraminer. So Gwartztreminer's Hallmark, lychee, rose petal, and tropical fruit aromas, mirror image of the mango salsa. Like they really pair well together. They speak the same flavor language, if you will. So it's richness, slight sweetness. You know, it can tame any jalapeno heat in the salsa if you go that direction. But the oily texture of the wine stands up to the nutty pecan crust without being overwhelming. I love Goward's tremor. I love to make it work with many dishes. I think this would be a good match for that. You could also do a viognier. So that's peach, apricot, honeysuckle. That would go well with that salsa as well, as well as go well with the pecans. So buttery flesh of the grouper. I think that would be a lovely pairing. And then, you know, we we're we go rogue, we do stuff. You know, they used to tell you, don't drink red wine with fish. That's just a big no. And we can say that to people that are learning about wine, because there's a lot of reasons why red does not work with fish, but it depends on the fish, it depends on the dish, it depends on so many things, and it depends on the wine. So, with a fish, of course, you want to go light-bodied, you want to go low-tannin because you don't want to overpower ever the delicate, flaky fish, right? Like it would be too much. So I was thinking maybe of a unique choice being frappato from Sicily.

SPEAKER_06 25:01

Oh, yes.

SPEAKER_00 25:03

Yes, it's bright and light.

SPEAKER_06 25:06

We are familiar with frappato. We do drink it quite a bit when we go to one of our favorite restaurants. Oh, yes, that would be terrific with it.

SPEAKER_00 25:15

Nevertheless, it you know, yeah, it's just very light, subtle, saline quality that echoes the ocean character of the grouper. And, you know, maybe a lot of people don't know it. So it's a good opportunity to go to your local wine store and get a frappato and have it with this dish.

SPEAKER_06 25:32

And actually, from our experience here with with total wine, frappato is not that expensive. It's a very, very well priced. So it it's something that's a lot of times within uh somebody's budget. So and it's you know, you've said it before, it it's not the it's not the price that makes the wine good. It's it's correct. So that frappato, what an excellent idea, excellent choice.

SPEAKER_00 26:04

Thank you. And it's fun to say frappato.

SPEAKER_06 26:07

Yeah, you have to use the hand, frappato. I did, yeah, frappato. Okay. Well, thank you, Sidney. You got my you're killing me here.

SPEAKER_05 26:18

You're killing me here.

SPEAKER_06 26:20

Well, thanks so much. Uh well, if you have any questions about today's recipe, or if you would like to be a guest home cook on Perfectly Seasoned for season four, especially. I'm looking for home cooks for next season. Please email me at info at the silverchef.net. And I'd like to thank our home cooks today, Andrea and also Deanne. They were very good at what they enjoyed doing this recipe, and I appreciate their participation. And of course, Cynthia, you're a winner.

SPEAKER_00 26:57

Thank you.

SPEAKER_06 26:58

So you can listen to Perfectly Seasoned on my website, thesilverchef.net, my Facebook page, Apple Podcasts, iHeartRadio, Pandora, Spotify, Amazon, or wherever you get your podcasts. And this is your personal chef, Greg Strom. Thanks for joining us today on Perfectly Seasoned. And remember, to eat fresh, may the fork be with you, and may all your days be perfectly seasoned.