The Secure Love Club Podcast
Your go-to space to break free from anxious dating patterns, find your confidence, and feel secure in love, with dating & relationship expert, Mimi Watt.
The Secure Love Club Podcast
Ep #11: Flirting 101: Micro Flirts, Rejection-Proof Confidence & Building Genuine Connection with The Flirt Coach, Benjamin Camras
Flirting isn’t just about romance—it’s about confidence, connection, and having fun in your own skin. In this episode of The Secure Love Club podcast, I sit down with Benjamin Camras, aka The Flirt Coach, to break down how flirting can feel natural, effortless, and fun (yes, even if you’re shy or overthink every interaction). Benjamin shares his journey from socially anxious introvert to flirt expert and spills his best tips on building confidence, handling rejection without spiraling, and using micro-flirts to create instant connections—without playing games. If flirting has ever felt awkward, confusing, or straight-up terrifying, this episode is for you.
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You can connect with Benjamin on Instagram, TikTok, stream the Flirtations Flirtcast everywhere you listen to podcasts (like right here!), and find out more about working together 1:1 here.
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You are listening to the Secure Love Club podcast with Mimy Watt episode 11. Hey friends. Welcome back to the club. Today we are talking about flirting. Flirting isn't just about romance. It's about connection, confidence, and having fun in your own skin. In this episode of the Secure Love Club podcast, I'm joined by the one and only Benjamin Cameras, AKA, the flirt coach to unpack the art of effortless flirting and authentic connection. Benjamin is a flirt and dating coach, sharing his love of flirting, and BFE big flirt energy with the world, a lifelong introvert and socially anxious member of society. Benjamin now helps singles and daters alike flirt with more confidence, clarity, and fun. As the flirt is all about connection, Benjamin helps the flirt community, AKA, the flirty date from a place that allows the value of connection in all forms, platonic, romantic, and with the self to take center stage. Ultimately, this practice of connection can transform lives and can be very healing. His work has been featured in Fortune Magazine, NBC News and the Yoga Journal. In this episode, Benjamin gets real about his journey from shy introvert to a master of magnetic charm, sharing how he overcame social anxiety and built deep, meaningful relationships along the way. We dive into why flirting isn't about playing games, thank God, but about presence, playfulness, and self-trust. Plus, Ben drops gold on how to flirt in a way that feels natural, not forced, including his genius micro flirt technique handling rejection like a pro, and why some of the most powerful connections happen outside of dating. If you've ever overthought a text frozen up mid convo, or wondered how to make floating feel fun instead of terrifying. This one's for you. Let's dive in.
Mimi:Benjamin, welcome to the Secure Love Club podcast. I'm so excited to have you here today. How are
Benjamin:you
Mimi:feeling today? Hi.
Benjamin:Hi, Mimi. I am excited to be here. You were on an episode of Flirtations recently and I am just, congratulations on starting the Secure Love Club podcast.
Mimi:Thank you. Thank you. Yes. Oh my gosh, you inspired me with your podcast. I was, um, a big fan of your work and yeah, we connected at the end of last year was on your podcast and you were definitely inspiration for me to get my arse into gear and get my podcast going, so thank you for that. Yes,
Benjamin:isn't
Mimi:it, um, how
Benjamin:are you enjoying the creation process so far?
Mimi:I'm really enjoying it. Yeah. It feels like a very, uh, expansive opportunity. Mm-hmm. To, mm-hmm. You know, have conversations in long form. It's been, yeah, I find it quite a nice exploratory thing to do, like in short form content. You know, we're trying to be punchy. We're trying to be potent. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I like that. Here in this space, we can just be a little bit more intuitive. Conversations can take twists and turns. Mm-hmm. And I think that's the best way to be, because then you always come to some sort of golden nugget when it was like unexpected. So I'm really enjoying it.
Benjamin:Ah, I love that. I feel the same way. Right? It's nice to yeah, create the short form comp tip. But I feel like sometimes with that you have to really dial in on one topic or focus on maybe one takeaway, one piece of advice versus this. Yeah, it's like a story. It's a conversation. Who knows what's gonna happen today?
Mimi:Who knows? Well, let's find out. And that's one of the other beautiful, beautiful, um, benefits of a podcast is we get to have amazing conversations with people like yourself and just, I love hearing about other people's journeys and stories and I think we can all take so much away from it. And yours is a story that I'm very intrigued to get to know more about because I obviously follow your Instagram. You and I have developed a bit of a relationship, but I feel that there's a lot of depth to you as a person and I'm kind of tempted to get in there and like un unpack some of that. So can we start with, I. Actually something I picked up on your Instagram in your bio, um, which of course we'll link everything below. You call yourself a shy guy, putting yourself out there.
Benjamin:Yeah.
Mimi:So I'm really curious about your journey with dating and relationships and even your journey with yourself, your relationship with yourself, and where you've come from. Like, who was this shy guy who has now managed to create a community and a loyal following of over 140,000 people?
Wow. Yeah. A podcast
Mimi:that has over a hundred thousand downloads. Like Yeah. You're a beacon for so many people. Can you talk to me about where this journey started and how it's evolved?
Benjamin:Yeah. Well, thank you again for having me on the show. I'd be happy to share a little bit more about myself. Yeah, it's like, I like to say in this journey, I took the first step and got ready in the process. I really just made a decision one day to bet on myself. Take on the fear, take on the risk, take on the unknown, and just give myself a chance. Keep saying yes to myself. When I say I am a shy guy, putting myself out there, I'm not kidding me. Maybe I'm definitely that flirter and that dater that is on the, on the shy side is definitely more introverted. Has had tons of social anxiety my whole life. I think looking back, really a turn for me was around puberty when I feel like I, I mean, first of all. Coming out of the womb, I was called an old soul, which if you've ever been called an old soul that early in life, you're already too smart for your own good. You're a little bit too aware. I think even before you know what you're aware of, right? Mm-hmm. You're empathetic, you're picking up on energies, you're sensing things, and so I always carried that with me, really unsure that what that really meant, really unsure whether everyone felt that way. And so when I started to mature and I just grew up very, and now, now physically. Very early before a lot of my peers. And that was difficult. And I became very withdrawn. I think I started to isolate myself a lot. I was dealing with the whole gay thing, which a lot of queer people deal with in some form. Uh, usually that's a part of their own story and their healing journey. And so all of these things just started to come together and I just developed so much social anxiety and felt like I was weird and awkward and different and too much this, right? Not enough that just didn't fit in. And so a lot, we deal with that in different ways. My coping mechanism, my strategy at the time was to isolate and to withdraw. And I feel like there were, there was a long period in my life where I didn't even open my mouth at all. I didn't really have friends or make connections. And even though it was the one thing I wanted the most, I. I think a lot of people that have th these experiences that I'm sharing as a part of their story just because maybe you're going home alone or you're staying at home on a Friday night or you don't have a lot of friends, or sometimes we grieve the loss of experiences. We didn't have the first date or the prom date, or the first kiss, or the teenage romance or the high school sweetheart, something like that. And we feel like we're missing out. Um, and I've had to, in a sense, grieve those experiences, but then bring them all on this journey with me and to get to where I am now. Still very much I think, in the healing phase, but really transcending a lot of those limiting beliefs and. Thoughts about myself and just allowing myself to experience love in all of its forms with myself and flirting and dating with friendships, family, coworkers, platonic connections, romantic connections. And so I'm really just trying to now, yeah, be in this position where I can inspire others if I can support them, encourage them, help them on their way to just saying yes to themselves, more, giving themselves a chance, believing in themselves first and foremost. And when you start to do that, all the other things we worry about, like when is the love gonna happen? Where am I gonna meet this person, right? What if I lose them? What if I mess it up? A lot of those questions we focus on, they just fade away. They start to just dissipate. They're really born out of this feeling of worry or fear or inadequacy of self-doubt. And so that's why I love that the work we both do focuses so much on creating that secure love with. Yourself right from within.
Mimi:Absolutely. Yeah. Wow. What an amazing journey. What I love about you is that because you have that background of being, uh, having that social anxiety, being much more introverted, being that old soul, which I can definitely relate to, feeling like you don't fit in, in a world like with, you know, certain standards and expectations, when you don't feel like you are the quote unquote norm. That message resonates so deeply with so many people. The people out there who still don't feel seen, they don't know where they fit in. Mm-hmm. And so for you to have had that experience, but then stepped into the spotlight to be a leader for other people is, is amazing. And you know, they always say your mess is your message and your journey that you've been on is your message. And I'm curious. When, at what age, what, was there a turning point or a catalyst where you said, okay, enough is enough. Like I really wanna start putting myself out there. Like when did that really happen and what was the turning point for you? I.
Benjamin:Oh my gosh. Honestly, this is such a good question. This is something I've been thinking about recently, um, because it happened or has happened really recently. I'm 39 now. I'm gonna be 40 this year. And I feel like you're 39. I know. Yes. What you do not look 39. Thank you. You Oh my God. Your skin is
Mimi:not Have guessed that
Benjamin:I've been, I've been one of those, I've been wearing wrinkle cream since I was 12, so it must, it must do something I would like steal my mom's cosmos and take like, you know, the fragrances and like the little free samples you used to get in the magazines and be like, yeah, try this. Ooh, lemme do this.
Mimi:Well, it's working.
Benjamin:So yeah, something's working. Thank you so much. It's a little bit of a healing too. I feel like there's just even, I feel like my just clarity of vision. Like I look at pictures of myself from even a couple years ago when I had my nine to five and I feel like my whole body language is different. Mm. My energy is different. My eyes look brighter, my smile is just a little brighter and it's not necessarily something I've. Change that much on the outside in these last couple years. It's, it's weird how he, like you just that self-love radiates outward a lot of time. Um, yeah, yeah. But the, the turning point, gosh, um, yeah. I was having a conversation recently about this and I, I feel like for so long I was waiting for that rock bottom moment. That moment of just like complete despair and isolation. Like how can it get any worse? Just that, that moment we often hear about, I didn't really have that experience. I just kept finding a new rock bottom was the thing. Mm. There was just the moment I chose to start. Moving differently to start behaving differently. To start acting differently and to make those really, really small steps. Because part of my story is dealing with and just experiencing depression for my whole life, really. My whole adult life, my whole adolescence. I'll never forget, like going through the progression of, oh, I think you might be depressed with, you know, doctors and psychiatrists to, oh, being diagnosed with depression to, oh, now you have TRD treatment res, or no, now you have MDD, major depressive disorder. And then it went on because nothing was working. Then it became TRD treatment resistant depression. And I was like, oh my God, I'm gonna have this forever. Like, I'm gonna be, I'm gonna be depressed forever. And one day I just like, in my heart of hearts, I always believed that there was a way out for me, even though I felt like nothing was really working. Everything I was trying wasn't bringing me, I. The, the results I wanted, I just wanted so desperately to feel better. One day I just decided, okay, like you have got to fully just commit and decide to do whatever it takes to just, at the end of the day, love yourself again and give yourself, I. As much opportunity as you can. And when I just flipped my, my mindset, just that little bit and started creating these micro habits day in and day out, just showing up for myself more consistently. One thing I love that you talk about is self trust and just building that trusting relationship with yourself so that you can trust your intuition more. You feel more comfortable to open up to others, to be vulnerable. And it's been a journey. It's been a progression. And recently I was going to like my first podcast party, my first party, yes. And oh my God, I was so nervous. Mimi. I was in the car on the way there, hyperventilating. I was like, driver, roll the window down. I was about to toss all my cookies all over Sunset Boulevard in Los Angeles, California. I didn't, I didn't, I just took some deep breaths and I had this realization. I was like, Benjamin, you're. Going to this party, not because you have like the best podcasts in the world or the most followers in the world or anything like that. You're going because you're you. And in that space, all you have to do is be yourself. Like that's all you have to do. Which is so ironic because for so long I didn't know who that was and or didn't like who that was. And in that moment, sitting in the car, I was like, wait, all, like, all the weight just fell off my shoulders. I could exhale and I, I was fine. I was fine. Like I still had some nerves and anxiety in that party. Oh my God. Naturally, of course I did. I'm only human, but, but I was with it. I was there, I was present. I had a great time. I didn't beat myself up or get hard on myself for like. Missing an opportunity to flirt or say hello or forgetting someone's name or, oh, I should have said, hey to that person. I feel like sometimes we place such restrictions on ourselves to make something, a quote unquote good experience or a success. I was like, hold up. I just have to be me. And I realize that I've had so many people believe in me throughout my life. It could be family, friends, and if you're listening and feel like you don't have that person, I guarantee there's at least one. And if you're like, no, there's not. Let it be us. We believe in you. Like this is where it's like, okay, I thank you to all the people that believed in me because when I couldn't believe in myself, uh, it helped. That energy was there. Absolutely. And now I was like, you know what, Benjamin, you owe it to them. Everyone that believes in you to give yourself a chance. Now, believe in yourself. And yeah, I feel like that's my long-winded answer, Mimi, to the tarting point.
Mimi:I love that answer for so many reasons. Oh my God. Okay. To unpack this. So I think that's so powerful, what you said about all I have to do is be myself.
Mm-hmm.
Mimi:For so many people listening, and I used to be one of them. And of course, some days I still am.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Mimi:We have so many layers of conditioning that are put onto us that we have. It's like we have this giant checklist of things we need to do, ways we need to be. And when we are that way, then we'll be accepted. Then we'll be good enough to be in the room with the cool people, right. To walk into that podcast party and mm-hmm. Be accepted by the people around you. Mm-hmm. And when you really think about it, it's like everyone feels this way. Yeah, everyone feels nervous. That's true. Everyone has insecurities. Everyone's worrying about themselves, how they're gonna be perceived, and I truly believe that authenticity is the greatest superpower. Mm. My gosh. And if you can be yourself and leave your ego at the door and just be there to be genuine and have a good time, like you can't go wrong.
Yeah.
Mimi:And I'd love to hear a bit about, you said, so you mentioned self-trust and how for you as well, that's a big piece of your healing journey.
Yeah.
Mimi:And being that person for yourself that you can rely on. And what's your relationship like with, or do you have one, I'm sure you do with your inner child? Do you speak to your inner child? Do you have that relationship with little Benjamin with the part of you that's afraid? Yeah, I
Benjamin:definitely, I've gotten into inner inner child healing. It's definitely something that's been for me because I had, I feel a great childhood. I loved my childhood experiences, so I don't really have memories from that part of my life that are very tough to revisit where I, I felt like I didn't have parent parents or caregivers that were present, right? I was very close to my family. My parents did divorce when I was seven, but they were still very much in my life and I saw them. It was difficult, um, going through that experience. I just remember thinking my parents are never gonna be in the same place again, right? While one person is maybe running errands, you get to play with the other person, or you're doing your homework with one while, one's cooking dinner or something like that. So all of a sudden, these things you always used to do with a parent, you're now gonna be doing bye. Yourself. And so I think parents are, are children of divorced families. You know, there's, there's some loneliness there, but still I had a really positive upbringing in childhood, but along the way, a part of my story, I know it's true for so many others, is we lose that playfulness. I. We lose the fun, we lose the kind of innocence. Everything becomes very serious. And to an extent it has to. I mean, we're growing up, right? We gotta find a way to make a living and pay taxes and make our own doctor's appointments. You know, all the nitty, exactly, all the nitty gritty, disgusting stuff of adulthood, which is so wild.'cause when we were kids, we just wanted to grow up thinking we would have the most freedom in the world as adults. Like, oh my God, we can drive, we know curfew, right? We can do anything, go anywhere.
Mimi:We were sold alive, Benjamin. Oh my God.
Benjamin:No, it's alright. A little bit. A little bit, but it is, it is. Okay. Yeah. And so I just, whenever I like what it's about for me is whenever I find that kind of inner child energy, that playfulness, that giddiness, that whimsy, right. Fantasy, even d Lulu bubbling up within me. Mm. For so long I wanted to tamp it down. I wanted to suppress it. I didn't wanna allow myself to feel all of that. And what you were just sharing a moment ago about authenticity, I think one reason, like we can look at a kid or a baby, it's because they, they don't necessarily, I mean, beyond their basic needs, they don't really like want anything. Right. They just wanna be with you. Hmm. I mean, yeah. If like, you know, someone's tugging on, you know, your shoelace or something, or like your coat pocket, like gimme some candy or like whatever. I'm hungry. Like I get that. I don't have kids, so maybe I should say that. But so much about. Childhood. It's like there's just this, you just go and be, you just play. You problem solve and you figure things out and you just be yourself. You don't worry about how you're perceived, about how others might view you or think about you. You don't really worry about being awkward or weird, right. When you're two years old. Mm-hmm.
I don't think,
Benjamin:I think you just are yourself. And I love that authenticity is a part of this conversation.'cause for so long I didn't understand what that meant. You know? And just when we hear, just be yourself. Be yourself. And so like at that party, to be myself means to wear a crazy shirt. I'm gonna wear a big print or something shiny, something silky, right. I'm gonna do the mustache up, I'm gonna make lots of eye contact. I'm gonna do some flirting. I'm gonna ask some questions, which may be a little weird at times. Not necessarily like, oh, what do you do for work? Or something like that. But thinking outside the box. So the way I connect and the way I converse with people is, oh, it, you know, it comes naturally in a way That's true to me. So, yeah, I think to to be authentic means to also just allow, yeah, allow your inner child to come out.
Mimi:Definitely allow it to come out and play. We all need to do that a little bit more. You're right. We can get so bogged down in the day to day of life and adulting, and we can all become so serious that, yeah, it's like we forget sometimes that, you know, as far as we know, we only have this one life and mm-hmm. It's all a bit of a game. Sometimes I like to remind myself of that. If I find myself getting really stuck in a problem, or I'm way too close to a problem mm-hmm. I like, we will have this little reminder in my head. I'm like. It's all a game. Like what if you look at life as a game and you just play and you just take risks and you just do whatever you want. Yeah. Because you could die tomorrow and it's all gonna be over. So that's a bit morbid. But you know, we can see the duality in that. Speaking of playfulness and being your authentic self,
okay. I
Mimi:would love to steer the conversation around flirting because you are known as the flirt coach. Oh, I'm excited. Flirting is your team. Oh, I excited. Let's do that. Yes, Uhhuh. Yeah, let's do that. And you, you definitely, from what I see on your social media and from what I've gotten to know of you throughout conversations, you are, you are your authentic self and you have this really infectious, bubbly energy. It's a bit quirky, it's a bit weird sometimes, but like, I love that. So can we start with what is your definition of flirting? How would you describe it?
Benjamin:Yeah. So I will give you the floor coach's definition of flirting. It's the authentic expression of interest in the present moment without expectations to make a connection. And I frame it like that for a few different reasons. It's about getting out of your head and into your heart. Not thinking away through the fluid, but more so feeling your way through it and making it about connection. Then detaching from those expectations about it must go a certain way, that it has to be received a certain way or otherwise it's a failure. It's not good, you weren't good at it kind of thing. Uh, and then being in the present moment that gets you out of your head, out of overthinking, right? So many of us overthink and overanalyze our way through the flirt, trying to figure out, oh my God, like, are they flirting or being nice? What do they think about me? What right? What are they, what's happening? What's, you know, going on in their mind kind of thing. Um, but just being with it, expressing interest, genuinely. To make a connection, not necessarily a romantic connection. We can start platonically first and then let the flirt breathe from there, and then detach from those expectations and just let it be received, how it's gonna be received. You have no idea, like if you're meeting someone for the first time, for a flirt, even what their name is, if they're single, if they're taken, if they're dating, not dating, maybe how they identify, you have no idea. So giving yourself a starting point of connection, sharing some energy, expressing interest, and letting it go from there. Then you give yourself so much space to play, coming back to that space to play in the flirt.
Mimi:A hundred percent. And, okay. Can you just repeat that definition one more time? Mm-hmm. A little bit slower because I just Sure. Just repeat that for me.
Benjamin:Yeah, and I made it up. It's not, you won't find this in Webster's or on Google or chat GPT or anywhere. It's the flirt. That's even better. Yeah. It's a flirt coach original. It is the authentic expression of interest in the present moment without expectation to make a connection.
Mimi:I love that so much. So what I'm hearing is with any person you come across, anyone you're interacting with, it's having a genuine curiosity and interest about that person. But without having an agenda, without trying to see if they're interested in you or trying to see, um, how they identify, if they're single, you know, any of that stuff. It's just having that playfulness and that interest in that other person. Is that correct?
Benjamin:That's absolutely correct. And so in that way, you know, I think the way I talk about the flirt is a little bit different.'cause so often we hear it framed as it is the expression of romantic interest or you're experiencing physical attraction with some, with somebody, or you like them or right you, you kind of want to explore something in the dating ish realm. But in that way, you're very much limiting the experience of the flirt, and your intention is very, it's a single pointed focus, and so now it must be received in that way. However, you're expressing interest within that physical kind of romantic style of flirt without knowing anything about the other person, or if they even wanna receive your flirt in that way. Who knows where someone's head is at, what they're going through. If they wanna flirt back, it's not personal, right? If you come up and you really come onto somebody regardless of gender, and you know, you're very kind of intentional with, with like, Hey, I think you're hot. Can I get your number kind of thing. I would say, that's not a flirt, that's just a question with a yes or no answer, right? You're not giving the the conversation, the connection. Any room. There's no curiosity. You're not trying to get to know somebody. You're just asking them a question based on what you feel is an interest in. Attraction, right? You probably just think they're hot. Um, so if we can expand the flirt and make it about connection, first and foremost, allow it to be a style of connection of conversation. It involves energy. There's some anticipation and excitement there. There's that intention to connect, to ask questions, to make observations, offer a compliment, even. You can definitely do that and just see how it's gonna be received. And so I'm really explaining the flirt as if you are approaching someone to flirt that you've never met before, or you maybe don't know you're out at an event, right? A coffee shop, a club, you're dancing, whatever. But certainly you can flirt and should flirt all throughout the dating process and your romantic relationships. I mean, think about how good it feels to be flirted with, even if you feel like that experience is nerve wracking, where you have the spotlight on, you think about the times. Mm-hmm. There's been at least one in your life when you've caught a flirt. Done the flirting, and it felt fricking amazing, I guarantee.
Mimi:Yeah, it does feel really good. It really does. It's so fun. And it kind of met you. You always walk away with a little bit of a pep in your step. You're like, Ooh. Like that felt really nice. Absolutely. Yes. So, okay. This is so fascinating and I've never really opened my mind to think about floating this way. So what is, first of all, what is the, the danger or the detriment of going into a situation? Let's say you see like someone hot across the room and you wanna talk to them, and you're going in there with a certain expectation or a hope of getting something out of it. If you're going into it with that lens, what's the downfall of that approach?
Benjamin:The downfall is you, like, you've already set your intention. So if your intention is not to necessarily connect more generally, but to connect specifically with this romantic sort of slant or lens to the flirt, well now it, it, the flirt can only go one way, right? It can only be received in one way, or maybe the other person feels like they're being manipulated a little bit or like you're asking some of those leading questions. You're trying to sort of box them in to a style of flirt that maybe they don't want to receive, or maybe they're not. Ready to to have, they don't wanna go there with you. They don't find you physically attractive perhaps. And that's fine. That's fine. And so if you're going in, and I know a lot of times like in the wild, you know, flirts, start with that physical interest. You see someone you think is hot, cute, beautiful, gorgeous, handsome, whatever. That's what catches your eye. But I would say like if you're going to a party, anything out in public, why would you only flirt with the hot one or the person that you find physically attractive? Flirt with everybody. Give yourself more opportunities. Show interest beyond just the person that caught your eye because you think they're hot like you're gonna see. Okay, that's an
Mimi:interesting point. Yeah. You're gonna see hot people all the time.
Benjamin:Like, it's like, it's kind of that piece of advice, like how do you get over like your crush or like that misconnection just crush on somebody else. Like you're, it's, you're gonna be in this constant phase of seeing people out in public if you're single and dating, that you find physically attractive. Yeah.
Mimi:Okay. So why should people care more about flirting with, as you said, why, like, not just the the hot people, not just the people you're physically attracted to. Why should we care about flirting with all of the other people? And I'm also curious and like how has that influenced your day-to-day life?
Benjamin:Mm, yeah. Watch how your world opens up. Watch how your social networks and your social connections just feel more open. They feel more expansive. Watch how it feels like you have more opportunity.'cause all of a sudden, one thing that happens is you're not only flirting in this one way, only flirting to express romantic interest or intent or intent. Only flirting with the person you find physically hot or attractive. Now you're flirting with, oh, the person, what a cool shirt they have, or hat or hairstyle or glasses or something like that. You are like out at a concert or something and you see someone like with really cool dance moves or you're rev vibing to the same song. Maybe you can connect and bond over that. It could be in the moment even. It doesn't have to last beyond even the moment because part of the flirt is you're in it. You're in that pre, it's that present moment experience. And so when you come at it from that perspective, bring in some curiosity, which we were talking about a little bit earlier. It's just. All of a sudden, like your just world becomes more expansive is the word that keeps. Coming to mind. You're gonna meet people that maybe you're looking for a job or you're looking for a pet sitter, like you're looking for someone to edit, I don't know, your podcast or a video, something like that. You're gonna, these opportunities are all of a sudden going to present themselves because you're talking about things that are interesting to you. You're asking questions. You're learning about things that are interesting to the other person. You're finding out what you have in common points of interest. You can connect a new dot, a mindset like shift happens, a puzzle piece comes into play where all of a sudden you make a connection. Oh my gosh, I've never thought about that. Like so for so long, and I believe in this so strongly. For so long we didn't have. Google. We didn't have chat GPT, we didn't have social media as search engines. You learned things through storytelling. You learned things through conversation. You learned things through observation. You learned things through relationships. That is how you created safety, security community. That is how you stayed alive beyond just right. The, the essence of connection, which I think is integral and essential to life. You learned about your world and gained knowledge through conversation and connection. And we're not doing that nearly to the extent that we used to. And so we've compressed evolutionarily, is that a word? Evolutionary level? Evolutionarily. Well, it can be a word on the hot. Yeah. In a very short period of time, we've taken away this experience of human connection and tried to. You know, replace it with online tools. And I love, of course social media and podcasts and all of that, but I want us to get back to just connecting with one another because it's essential to life. Mm-hmm. Like it's just a part of health. Yeah.
Mimi:I've never thought of it like that. That's such a good way to look at it, that once upon a time we didn't have Google and Chat GPT in these search engines. No. And yeah, the way we found our information, or the way we garnered opportunities mm-hmm. Was through real in life connection and talking to people.
Mm-hmm.
Mimi:And, mm-hmm. Okay. Alright. So. I know, maybe
Benjamin:just we've taken, the cos are turning, I'm like, oh my God. All over the place. Yeah,
Mimi:we have. Okay. And so a few questions came up for me as I was listening to you say that. Okay. So, okay, the first one is, let's say I'm wanting to, I'm wanting to flirt more, wanting to put myself out there, make new connections in all different ways. So not just romantic. How do we do that in a way where, let's say there's someone we're not physically attracted to, but we wanna flirt. So meaning you want to maybe form a connection, learn something about them. How do you do that where you don't want to come off like you're interested romantically if you're not, and give someone the wrong impression. So what does that look like floating in that sense?
Benjamin:Hmm. Yeah. Yeah.'cause you don't wanna come across right as creepy or like you're maybe coming on too strong or Yeah. You're spec specifically looking to flirt with that romantic intent. So, I mean, it's really, I feel, I feel so cliche saying this because it really does come back to the basics. But you gotta start with some eye contact, with some body language, with a smile, a nod, a quick hand wave, something like that. Just getting someone's interest and attention non-verbally can really go a long way. Mm-hmm. And see how that. Intent or that interest or that expression of interest is what I'm trying to say is received. Right. Do they acknowledge you? Do they smile back? Even if they seem like they're shy or bashful, maybe they look away. Or turn away or walk away, right. We can oftentimes distinguish someone that's not interested, right? They turn your back and they're gone from the person that starts to walk away, and then, oh, they look back and they smile a little bit and then, oh, they look down because they're nervous, right? So you can, there are some ways to gaze interest, to gauge interest non-verbally, and then to get the conversation started. Hello, how are you? My name is right. You wanted to introduce yourself. Was there something that caught your eye? Did they have on a logo or a hat or something interesting? Starting with a non-physical, physical compliment. So not complimenting something specifically about their physical appearance. Maybe face, body, something like that. But more so style, aesthetics. So it's a, it's or even energy, right? Something like that. I think smile, complimenting someone's smile is in the realm of non-physical, physical, but maybe not specifically eyes or eye color or something like that. Um, because someone walks up to you, you've never met before. Oh my gosh, you have the most amazing blue eyes I've ever seen that. I, I dunno. I dunno. I mean, yeah, maybe you're instantly getting like, okay, yeah, that's a little different than, Hey, you have such a great smile. My name's Benjamin. I wanted to come over here and introduce myself. How are you? Got you. Okay.
Mimi:So we can, we're a little bit
Benjamin:different.
Mimi:Okay. So the, the difference in approach is where we're sparking up conversation maybe based on something they're wearing or something they're doing that we think is interesting. Yeah. And we're just coming in genuinely wanting to maybe give a compliment or just say hello and just start a conversation.
Benjamin:Absolutely. Yeah. And if you, if there's something in common you already have, like maybe you're traveling, you're in the airport and you're wearing, like I oftentimes wear something like my alma mater, uh, when I'm traveling or something, maybe from a yoga studio that I've been to. And so if someone else is wearing something similar, oh my gosh, did you go to Oregon? Did you go to this school? Me too. Are you a duck? Oh my gosh. Are you, or do you do yoga as well? Can I ask you Right. Maybe how long you've been practicing or what's one of your favorite things about yoga? And then you can point to your shirt look right, me too. And so you can connect over something you have in common, which is a great way to establish a point of connection.'cause it's gonna allow for some of that vulnerability, authenticity. And people tend to let their guard down. A little bit faster when they have something in common with someone.
Mimi:Got you. Okay.
Benjamin:Yeah,
Mimi:that's a great point. And what about body language? Mm-hmm. So for you specifically, when you're out in the public in the world doing your thing, are you conscious of your body language and whether that is closing you off to people, approaching you who maybe wanna have a chat? Or are you opening yourself up? Or is it dependent on your mood on the day? But is that something that you think about?
Benjamin:Oh yes, Mimi. My body language is always very flirty. It's, it is open. I am, I mean, I'm very animated with my body language. I use a lot of hand motions and hand movements. I mean, oh my God, I'm doing it right now. Put your hands down. Put your hands down. I do a lot of, of stuff with my eyes and, and smile, facial expressions, tilting of the head, nodding of the head, tilting of the neck kind of thing. Mm-hmm. So I tend to be very animated and expressive, um, with my body language and bring a lot of movement to it. Partly, it's a habit I developed from being so anxious and having so much social anxiety to move a little bit helps me just feel more grounded and get outta my head and just disperse some of that nervous energy. So I'd say it's a habit that I developed out of anxiety first. Mm-hmm. But I've really stayed with it because it's. It's authentic to me. It's very natural to express interest and flirt with a lot of movement. But for the flirty, that's like, or for the person listening that's like, uh, no, I'm not doing that. Look, you've got to relax your shoulders. Right? Okay. Chest out, chin up kind of thing.
Mm-hmm.
Benjamin:Smile. If you feel like you have that RBC, resting bitch face, whatever. You're just not smiling. You're just thinking like, you're literally just thinking. That's it. So get out of your head for a moment. Put your hand on your heart. A few little taps there with your fingers. Just a gentle smile. And feel your energy, I hope. Relax a little bit. Uh, and now you're gonna be more expressive and it's gonna be more natural for someone to come over and maybe say hello or smile wave, nod at you because your body language is indicating that you might be open to it.
Mimi:Okay. Beautiful. So yeah. Taking a moment, taking a breath, relaxing. Yeah. Just allowing yourself to open Yeah. Getting rid of some of that, that tension in the body that we probably all hold unknowingly. Mm-hmm. Like the shoulders are hunch. Totally. And we're just like, tense and we're all tense over our phones all the time. And Absolutely. Is actually, is that something that you think about when youre in public? Do you try to be not on your phone and maybe, you know, not having headphones in? That's'cause it's, when we do that, we're very closed off.
Benjamin:Very, very good point. Yes. Put your phone down, take your headphones out. Uh, yes. It's, it's, it's about removing ultimately those barriers that may signal that you're not interested in a conversation, in the connection, in a flirt. So, being on your phone? No, just go ahead, put it away. Headphones out. Yeah. Even like, you know, if there's someone at the gym, I mean, I said don't flirt with the hot one, but you know, there's someone at the gym that you think is cute all of a sudden, oops. Headphones out. Headphones out, phone down. Benjamin. Yes. Smile, nod. Hello.
Mimi:Oh my God. The way you went through that. Oh my god, it's hilarious. Okay. I love it. So yeah, removing the barriers to people approaching you, because it's true. If someone has their headphones in, you don't really feel like they're wanting anyone to approach them. You're like, okay, I'm not gonna disturb that person. Yeah. And you gotta think
Benjamin:about like, if you wanted to flirt with the person with headphones in, it's like you, you might be thinking, oh, how do I do this? Do I just like get in their face a little bit? Do I try and catch their eye? Do I just motion tap on my ear signaling, Hey, take your headphones out. So if you could just remove that barrier, why not? Mm-hmm. Okay. Beautiful. Mm-hmm.
Mimi:Now I'm curious if your flirting in IRL has produced any, um, like dating positive dating experiences for you, or have you any relationships, like how has that impacted your dating life? Hmm.
Benjamin:I would say it's more so impacted my dating life where I just look to when I'm out, have a good time. Mm-hmm. So I'm a Libra. When I'm in a social environment, I tend to be more that butterfly type. I want to go around, say hello to a few different people rather than maybe focus just on one. Mm-hmm. Uh, but to be quite honest, I am one of those that rarely gets flirted with in person. So I'll be out somewhere, even in a gay space, like a club or a party, and I don't really get people coming up. It's a flirt with me. Very, very much so. I tend to be there need to be the one that makes that first move, that makes the approach that goes over and says Hello. And then I practice what I preach. I do it very much just like how I've been sharing today, where I start first with that point of connection rather than going up right away and being like, oh my God, but you're so cute, you're so handsome. You come here often classy. No, I wanna, I wanna learn something about that person or share something about my week. Was I working on a cool podcast episode? Was I just on the Secure Love Club podcast? Yeah, I'm gonna be talking about that.'cause I ultimately just wanna learn and get to know someone on what they're excited about, something they're interested in, something that they're passionate about, something they love to do, right? What lights them up. Let me find that and. More often than not, we're gonna have something in common there. Even if maybe we don't like the same types of music, we're gonna find something in common. And once you find that point of commonality, all of a sudden, a lot of the anxiety you have, the nerves, you feel like, right, you're weird or awkward, you're not good at this, you can't do this. A lot of those doubts, worries, and fears are gonna melt away at least just a little bit. Because now you feel right, you feel a little bit more connected and a little bit more comfortable with someone. So ultimately, that's always how I'm gonna bring the flirt. And then, you know, setting myself up for the second flirt because I'm mixing and mingling.
Ooh, I'm gonna make the second
Benjamin:oh, oh, the second flirt. So like, is that what you
Mimi:said?
Benjamin:Yeah. So the second flirt is, you know, like when you want to flirt with this person again. But maybe you're out somewhere and you're gonna go back and say hello to your friends, or you're gonna go to the dance floor, or you're gonna go grab a drink or you wanna go say hello to someone else. You wanna set yourself up for the subsequent flirt?
Mimi:Say more. Oh. Oh.
Benjamin:Right. So like, I'm gonna, oh, like it's been Right. So much fun chatting with you. I definitely wanna catch up with you again before the end of the night. I'm gonna go check out and see how my friends are doing. Um, but I'll see you before I leave.
Mimi:Oh, I love that. Okay. So you just, and then
Benjamin:you can Yeah,
Mimi:that's, I like that. I, um, because I had a situation the other night, and this was not with someone who I had a romantic interest in.
Mm-hmm.
Mimi:Um, my, I am staying with my parents at the moment. They had a whole bunch of people over, some friends to meet and I was chatting to one of, uh, this man, one of their friends who's uhhuh much older than me, and we were having a great conversation and I feel like there was a bit of that. Flirt in a platonic way. Like that genuine interest. We had a really nice conversation. Mm-hmm. But then I reached the point in the conversation where I felt like, okay, I wanna move away now. Like, you know, when you reach that point, you're like, okay, I think I've said everything I wanna say now, but how do I, how the hell do I remove myself from this conversation without being rude? So like how, I think what you just said there kind of made my ears like pick up a little bit of when you're trying to get away from a conversation, but you don't wanna be rude. Like what can you say?
Benjamin:Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. So just like what? I like to close the flirt you can. I. Reframe something they said or highlight something that was memorable from that experience or that conversation. So one thing you said, maybe you bonded over, you were talking about music. Oh my God, it was so much fun talking about how much we love Kesha. Right? I can't wait to put her on my playlist. As soon as I leave, that's gonna be my ride home music. It was so much fun meeting you tonight. Hope you have a great rest of your evening. Yeah. Mm. And then just get on out of there. That would be a way to close the flirt if like you didn't wanna have that second flirt, but if you do, definitely. Go ahead and set up almost that next flirt, that next invitation, get their number then and there if that's what you want. Um, and then I feel like I should say like if you've crossed the touch barrier, right, you can give them a hug or something like that, or maybe just like put your hand on the top of their shoulder, low back, something like that. Lean in a little bit so you close that proximity without like really getting too much in their personal space. But then like if you really do want that second flirt, don't go around and then like make out with everyone else right at the club or the party or the bar like that. I'm not doing that because I wasn't even doing that with this example that I'm giving you. Right. It was very friendly slash flirty kind of the whole time. Yeah.
Mimi:Okay. Mm-hmm. That's, I love that. That's a really good piece of advice. So just kind of almost like putting a little bow on the conversation saying, I loved how we spoke about this. Thank you for advice on that, et cetera. Enjoy the rest of your night or like, I'll see you soon. I'll talk to you soon. Or something.
Benjamin:Yeah, yeah. Just a quick reframe. Sum up the conversation. Something you talked about. Yeah. Offer a compliment. Right? Loved your energy. So cool. I loved learning about X, Y, Z thing. Yeah. Something like that. Okay. Mm-hmm.
Mimi:Beautiful. Now I wanna talk to you a little bit about some dating strategies for people who have, maybe they've done a lot of work on themselves. They've, you know, they've been through some journeys with relationships and they're trying to get the confidence to put themselves back out there. They're still feeling, um, maybe a little bit of insecurity, some self-doubt. How, what are some tips or strategies you would give someone to get out there with even just like 5% more confidence so they can just start to dip their toe back in the dating pool?
Benjamin:Mm, you got, I think, to look at where you are putting your energy in dating and see where it feels really forced versus where it maybe is coming a little bit more naturally. So if an example, you're on the apps and you feel like you're just constantly swiping, you're burnt out, you're not getting any traction at results, conversations are going to dead end. After dead end. You're just like, it's, it feels a very forced, it feels like it's a very forced, unpleasant experience and you're not getting the results you're looking for. You know, could we change your search parameters? Is it something with the profile and pictures? Like is there something tangible we could do to give ourselves a better chance of having those matches? Is it something happening in the conversation? I'm not sure. So looking at maybe some strategy there, but if overall it feels forced, look at where you want to put that energy, because I know you don't have unlimited energy. Today, I don't either. Mm-hmm. And so maybe it's, you call up your friend, your girlfriend, right? Whoever, and you go to a Sunday brunch or a Saturday brunch, or there's a painting class or a cooking class or a yoga thing, something maybe outdoors at a studio. You wanna do something new. You wanna try and then give yourself that micro goal of, okay, I listened to this episode of the Secure Love Club and now I have some flirting strategies. Now I know what I can do to just make a connection and start there and do that first. Okay? And so you're, once you start to get some traction and things feel less forced and start to come a little bit more, more naturally, and you get some, I'll say kind of quote unquote successes there, you get some good experiences. It's that it's positive reinforcement. You're more likely. To do it again, and then your confidence builds and your self-trust builds. And now maybe you wanna try something else and you go on a solo trip or we can get away. Right. Something like that. And now all of a sudden you're just flirting all over the place.
Mimi:I love it. Okay. So if Okay. If we're looking at,'cause a lot of people, I think this, this, these, this day and age
mm-hmm. Look
Mimi:at dating through the lens of oh, the only way to meet people is through the apps. Yeah. But lots of people hate being on the apps. Right. Yeah. They just, ugh. It does feel forced for a lot of people. Yeah. They haven't had many good experiences. So I like that reframe of like, okay, if. This is, feels like a dead end if I'm directing my energy here and it's not feeling good at all.
Yeah.
Mimi:Where do I wanna direct my energy? Okay. So maybe asking ourselves like, is there something that I wanna try that I've been putting off? Is there a new like bar in town or an activity that feels exciting for me? So let me go and put myself in that environment.
Mm-hmm.
Mimi:And then when I'm there, can I employ some of these floating skills and these recommendations you've given just to, again, maybe is it, is it that we're not looking for a potential partner when we're doing these activities? But again, the primary goal should just be for connection.
Benjamin:I, I really think so. I mean, if, if an opportunity presents itself, you see someone that just like really catches your eye, you're crushing, maybe you can't stop thinking about them kind of thing, and you wanna explore the romantic flirt, do it, do it. Get the number, ask them if they're seeing anybody express interest and going on a date, grabbing coffee, going for a walk, getting dinner, seeing a show, whatever. Because I know there's gonna be probably a lot of women listening to this, but some fellas too. So regardless of gender, who you're flirting with, who you're dating, it starts with that point of connection and expressing of interest genuinely in the moment. And then see what happens. Let it go from there. But if you're, you know, not seeing anyone that you're kind of. So-called attracted to. That's okay. You could still have a conversation, you could still catch a flirt, have a connection. It doesn't mean, right, you're leading someone on to expect more or that, oh my gosh, you have this massive crush on them and you wanna go out, kind of thing. I mean, ultimately, if you are being authentic, genuine, showing that interest, bringing the energy, may someone perceive that as a flirt, oh, this person likes me. I mean, if you're like asking for their number afterwards and stuff like that. Yeah. I mean, you could be setting up a reasonable expectation, but you just having a conversation, asking some questions, getting to know someone. I think you can do that. And if the other person thinks it's more, uh, it does happen sometimes.
Mimi:Yeah, it's inevitable. I think that's, um, you know, even. When we are doing these activities, often we, you know, a lot of people, we have this end goal in mind of like, I want to go out there and date to find my person because Yeah. Then I think I will feel really fulfilled and then like we're chasing a feeling, but even by putting yourself in a new environment and making some new points of connection with different people mm-hmm. It's almost like that is also a way to fill up your cup. Right. To definitely to go home at the end of the day or the end of the night, be like, I had a really good time because I felt seen.
Mm-hmm. I
Mimi:learned something about someone else, like I made someone else feel seen. I think that can be very fulfilling as well. Absolute. So I'm really, I love this just really taking the perspective, the lens of floating, taking that, that, that lens off. That's like, it's only for romantic relationships. Mm-hmm. And I think the takeaway message from this is just opening ourselves up to build lots of different connections in life and who knows where that might lead to.
Benjamin:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, you never know. I mean, if you are, if you're listening and you're single and you feel like you are going right from flirt to flirt, to relationship to relationship, really chasing, uh, chasing that feeling, um, I've done that plenty in my life. But what you were just sharing m me, was this experience of allowing yourself to be seen and also seeing someone else without this pretense, without this expectation, without solely for maybe how they look, but getting to know them, even just a little bit, focusing on that connection. And when that happens, like I just don't think you can go wrong. I think when you make that a practice, if you're single and listening to this, finding your person is gonna be inevitable because you're gonna be in that energy of connection, which is going to serve you well. I think,
Mimi:a question I wanna ask you is for the people who are quite shy, who are quite nervous to start floating in real life and who are possibly very afraid of rejection
mm-hmm.
Mimi:And someone like thinking they're weird or, or just shutting it down and they're really afraid of that. Mm-hmm. Do you have any tips for how to handle that?
Benjamin:Yeah. Yeah. So I would say just practice first with the micro flirt. So it's a style of flirt where there's really. Low stakes. So maybe you're out running errands, you're at the grocery store or something. And if they've got like, could you offer someone, you know, if they're reaching for a product, like hand down and give it to'em and just have a quick moment of connection. Hey, how are you compliment. Hope you have a great day. Just allow yourself to be seen. Make that eye contact, express that, express that interest. But it's in the moment, yes, as the flirt is, but it's, there's not really a lifespan to that. You're not setting yourself up for, right, the next flirt or Here's my number, I'm gonna see this person again. It's very overall low stakes. Maybe you're running errands still and they've got right a door that you can hold and not one of those like automatic doors or something like that. Can you hold it for'em? And then. Here we go. Eye contact. Hello. Compliment. Non-physical. Physical, right? Mm-hmm. Have a great day. Smile, wave, nod, and just get into that practice, starting to make it a little bit of a habit and see how it feels to express interest, low stakes, and allow yourself to be seen. Just start building your flirt muscle. In that way. And then when maybe you wanna take it, I'll say that next level, uh, go out with at least a friend, right? One person that can become your support there. If it does end in a rejection, let's say you ask for someone's number Instagram and they don't give it to you, or they're seeing someone, they're taken, they're not dating, whatever. It's all right. It's all right. Because you've had that micro flirt, you know you can do it. You've proven it to yourself. You're there with a friend, you have some support, and you can like, oh my God, that didn't go so well. Yeah, you actually, I don't wanna see them anymore. Can we go, can we walk to the other side of the restaurant or the party or whatever? And you're gonna be, you're gonna be fine. You're gonna be fine. Yeah. So there's, there's a couple quick tips.
Mimi:Okay. So the micro float. I love that. Yeah. So really just baby steps, really gently easing ourselves into it. Absolutely. Low stakes.
Benjamin:Yeah.
Mimi:Perfect.
Benjamin:Okay. And don't, and I'll say don't compare yourself to, for some people listening, the micro float, they're gonna be like, please, I did a hundred of those today. And to some people listening, that's gonna be a challenge. So wherever you're at with a flirt, have so much patience, compassion, and self-love for yourself. Don't compare your flirt experience to anyone else. Your flirt strategy skills to anyone else. Everyone has an inner flirt and you gotta start somewhere. Yeah, I haven't always been the flirt coach. It hasn't always been easy, even though I am a Libra, it hasn't. It's been a muscle you've had to build. Absolutely. Mm-hmm.
Mimi:Yeah. Well, Benjamin, this has been such an interesting conversation. I know I personally have taken so much away from it, and I'm excited to get out there and practiced my flirt skills and just Yes. I love what you said about it will expand your social network. It will bring opportunities, and like you just never know where a conversation will lead you and where it will end up. Absolutely.
Mm-hmm.
Mimi:Is there any final message, anything you'd wanna say to the person listening? Who is that shy like person? They're a bit more introverted. Mm-hmm. That you haven't said already about flirting and Yeah. The way you view the world.
Benjamin:Everyone has an inner flirt. So if you're carrying some experiences with you, like it didn't go well, or you're going through an experience maybe of heartbreak or rejection, you're down on yourself. It's okay. It's okay. The flirt light will be lit again, I promise. It's always there, even if it's feeling a little dim at the moment. Just love yourself. I love that we talk, been talking about that, all conversation about vulnerability, connection, authenticity, self-trust, some of the themes I love to talk about. Um, yeah. I just thank you all so much for listening today, and Mimi, thank you for having me on your amazing podcast. Congratulations again on, on doing it.
Mimi:Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much for being here and sharing your time with us today, Benjamin. Yeah. Are you taking on clients right now? Is there a way that if someone's listening and they're like, I just wanna get in his Benjamin's world, I wanna work with him, is are you working with clients at all at the moment?
Benjamin:Absolutely. Yeah. Very, very interested in working with you if you're being called to do so. If you're feeling interested, one-on-one calls are available. I always start with a 30 minute, we'll get to know each other and then we can do one-offs. We can do packages, whatever works for you. I also have some freebies, uh, and my link that'll be here for the show notes. The free flirt styles quiz is there for you. I have a free dating app guide called Tastic, an anti-anxiety guide for you. A flirting guide. Yes, my podcast Flirtations. All the socials. I am here for you, for your, oh my God, you really are. Yes. Busy, busy over here at Florida headquarters.
Mimi:You, you are. Okay, well, we will leave all the links below in the show notes for you to be able to go and find Benjamin, connect with him and work with him. Do all the things. But thank you so much for being here today and Yes. Yeah, it's been so much fun. Thank you so
Benjamin:much for having me on the show.
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