The Secure Love Club Podcast

Ep #31: Connecting vs. Attaching: The Shift That Will Change Your Love Life

• Mimi Watt

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In this episode, I’m sharing an interview I did with my beautiful friend Hillary McVeigh — Human Design teacher, Retreat Facilitator, Certified Coach, intuitive, and the kind of woman who will lovingly see straight into your soul.

Before we even hit record, she pulled up my Human Design chart (Vessel of Love, Generator 2/4 for my HD lovers) and read me like a book. Then we went deep into all things dating, love, and self-worth.

In this episode, we talk about:
• The real difference between connecting with someone and attaching yourself to them (and why most people have it backwards).
• How to stop morphing into who you think someone wants you to be — and start dating as your authentic self.
• My red, orange, and green flag framework to help you stop abandoning yourself in relationships.
• Why your nervous system can get hooked on toxic “push–pull” dynamics and how to break free.
• How to keep your independence (and attraction) alive in long-term love.
• The sneaky influence of the “male gaze” on how we see ourselves — and what changes when you drop it.

This ep is jam-packed with moments that will have you rethinking the way you show up in love — whether you’re single, dating, or deep into a relationship.

🎧 Tune in now! And if this episode resonates, send me a DM on Instagram—I’d love to hear your thoughts!

EPISODE WITH HILLARY ON MY POD
Listen here!

CONNECT WITH HILLARY!
You can connect with Hillary on Instagram, stream her Designed As You Podcast, and find out more about working together here.

MIMI SOCIAL MEDIA
Connect with Mimi on Instagram here! 

Got something you'd love me to record an episode on? DM me on Instagram and let me know!

You are listening to the Secure Love Club podcast. I'm your host, Mimi Watt. Hey friends. Welcome back to the club You are in for a treat. Today I'm bringing you a conversation that I had over on my friend Hilary McVay's podcast earlier this year, and Hilary is a human design teacher and intuitive, and one of those women who just sees right into the depths of your soul. She's incredible. Hilary is also a retreat facilitator. A certified coach and a practitioner of IFS and Breath work, a former burnt out lawyer. She now helps people reconnect with their authentic selves, trust their inner wisdom, and break free from conditioned patterns and create lives of deep fulfillment and freedom. She works with people globally through a blend of spirituality, psychology, and somatic healing, and so our. Worlds are very much aligned. They're sort of adjacent, but they're aligned. And you may have listened to a podcast episode that I released also earlier this year where Hillary was a guest on my podcast and I got to immerse into her world and hear all about what she does, uh, the work she does with her clients. And it was. A truly incredible episode. So if you haven't heard that one, I will leave the link below to go back and listen after this episode. If you are vibing with the conversation that Hillary and I have, she pulled up my chart, my human design chart before we even hit record on this episode. And let's just say it was crazy, crazy to hear how aligned, um, the work that I'm doing in the world is with. My, I guess my human design. And you may know a lot about human design. You may know not much about human design, but either way, it, it doesn't matter. It's okay because it's all revealed in this episode. And. This episode, we really, we really go everywhere. There's a lot of topics covered, um, but it's full of value and juicy goodness. We talk about the difference between connecting with someone versus attaching to yourself to them, and why most people have it backwards. We talk about how to stop morphing into. Who you think someone wants you to be and actually date as yourself. We cover red, orange, and green flags. How to spot them and respond without abandoning yourself. Why your nervous system can get addicted to toxic push pull dynamics and how to break free of them. The one thing long-term couples must keep doing to keep the spark alive without forcing fake novelty. Solo travel independence and why your relationship with yourself will be stronger when you have your own life. We talk about the male gaze, how we have internalized it, how it shapes the way we see ourselves, and what changes when we finally drop it, and why a little reassurance goes a long way for both men and women. This is a jam packed episode that will have you looking at your love life, whether you're single or partnered up. In a whole new way. So grab your coffee, settle in, and let's dive into this conversation with the incredible Hillary McVay. Hi everyone. Welcome back to the podcast I have with me today, an incredible guest. Her name is Mimi Watt, and she's a dating and relationship coach who helps people become secure within themselves and attracts healthy love through healing their anxious attachment style. So she has all her beautiful frameworks that I'm definitely wanna talk about today, and I was just looking at Mimi's human design and her work and who she is as a woman. It's so aligned, like everything's so aligned. Her incarnation Cross is vessel of lounge. She is a generator at two four, and I can't wait to. Yeah, talk all things, relationship and dating and love of self, love of others, because that is just, it's literally written in your human design. That's your purpose. So it's so crazy and so beautiful to see. Oh my God, thank you for that beautiful intro. It's, yeah, as you just mentioned, like you said, the same thing just before we started recording, and I find that so amazing and validating because I know I'm a generator, but as far as human design goes, that's kind of all I know and I wanna explore it deeper. But to hear that already, that it's very aligned, I'm aligned with what I'm doing with my work and in the world is super cool. Yeah. Well, you know, we don't all even need human design, just like human design helps us if you need that reminder, but you are doing it, you're following your gut and you're in your vessel of love purpose. So it's so cool. I love when I see someone's work or who like what they're doing or who they are as a person, and then see their design afterwards and just be like, oh. Beautiful. Just you're doing your thing. Thank you. I can see that this is where you receive success. This is where people are magnified to you, especially as that two fall. You know, it's not by accident that things either feel good or it feels natural, especially for you with that two energy. It feels natural and yeah, you're following your guard as a generator and had mastery in your thing. Okay, what is this? Two, four. Two four is your profile. So two, four is, it's almost like your personality and your role here. And then two, four is known as like the natural who sees things quite clearly, and it's all about with the four, your interpersonal relationships, or it's about like almost mastering relationships, either personally for you and it is always about like your relationships in life, but also it is just so cool that you're then. Teaching people about that. But the two, four, when they're in their zone of genius, it's like you can't help but attract people. It's just people are almost like a little bit nosy and wanna be like, what's this two four doing? It's almost like you kind of wanna live vicariously and you know Yeah. People are very much watching you. Right. Interesting. Someone, a previous mentor actually said the same thing to me and she doesn't even, she's not even a human design coach, but she said the same thing. She's like, you have this quality that people are just like, they wanna know what you're up to or they wanna befriend you, or I was like, oh yeah, that's exactly it. It's a common example in human design with the two floor. It's like you're on the first floor above where people are trying to peer into your apartment and like, what's she doing? And rather than the person that that channeled human design, he would say it's like the two floors walking around naked in their apartment, doing their thing. Not a lot people are like, the people are, would even be interested. They're just in their own process. Everyone else is out. What's she doing in there? You know, I wanna find it out like so mysterious and alluring. So you can soak, use that to your advantage and like, wow, you're really striking my ego, Hillary, I'm just looking at your human design. So, but in saying all this, you know, with this line, and I know you don't know that much with the vessel of love, and, but really at the end of the day, it's about giving love, sharing love, being love, like just embodying that energy, love of self, love of others. And it really is about, like, a big part of what you are here to give is to help people firstly, love themselves and then create that, that loving relationship with the world and around them. So my first question to you would Dee about like, how do you see when it comes to dating and relationships, the importance of like first starting with yourself and that connection with self? Yeah, great question. It really is the most important part of relationships. And I speak from experience because I'm definitely someone who, back in the day, I didn't have a very close relationship with myself. I tended to actually try and avoid myself because I was never taught how to just be with my emotions, allow my emotions. I didn't probably have a very high self-worth, and so I was always looking out externally to other people to try to get them to fill this void within myself. But doing that is sort of like pouring sand into a bucket that has holes in it. That sand is just going to keep emptying out of the bucket. Out of the bucket, because if we don't know how to feel fulfilled and feel love for ourselves, and we are always seeking it from others, we are basically outsourcing our personal power to other people. And we can't control other people. We can't control really what they're gonna do, how they think about us, how they feel about us. Like we think we can, but we can't fully, right? So we are trying to work with something that we think we have control over, but we don't. And so it always ultimately leaves you feeling empty, right? And it just becomes this like endless cycle, this perpetuating cycle where you're always, you're like on a hamster wheel, you're always trying to get that love and validation externally when you don't know how to give it to yourself. So giving it to yourself first is, in essence, it's, it's really about. Knowing your value, knowing your self worth, knowing how to make yourself happy so that then when you are out there looking for a relationship, you're looking for someone to add or to compliment your life and to build joy with, as opposed to just give me, because I can't do it myself. Yeah. Well, when you were just saying, I just remembered so much, especially in my early twenties, it was like, oh, is that what you want? Or that's what I perceive you need or want from me, so I will more for myself in order to be that. And it's exactly, you said it's exhausting, but it's like seeking that validation outside of yourself and that becomes so flimsy. Mm-hmm. And so, you know, they might just not reply to a text message and then you go in a spiral or you start to think all about the self. You know, you have all of the self-worth intertwined with that. And I feel like with this, and I know you're such an expert with the attachment styles, but it was this interesting thing where I would go from avoidant attachment. I was like, generally more avoidant. Then once I was in a dynamic, I then it went into more anxious, and then it was like so much just about wrapped up on being, yeah, you really are in a vulnerable place when you aren't in that secure place with yourself and that loving place with yourself because only then will you know what you want, what the values you are. You'll actually be more connected with what's your experience in this scenario, rather than worrying all the time about are they having a great experience in this dynamic. I love it. Yes. I remember this moment. I remember when I was dating and it was like, how can I be the best date for them? Like they'll have such a great time, you know? And us as women, we know exactly what to do, exactly what to give for them to have a great time. And it was like, no, I'm gonna have an enjoyable time. I'll sit back here, rather than being the one that's always performing. Absolutely. And I think it's such a common experience and I think what you said about morphing into what other people want you to be is something we a lot of us can relate to. And it's sort of like we become this chameleon and that really stems from, you know, a lot of people who are anxiously attached in relationships. We'll feel that way, and that stems from, you know, in your childhood, if you weren't getting your emotional needs met consistently, you didn't feel safe to express yourself. Often what happens is, as that young child, because you are so dependent on your parents for love and connection and survival, you end up abandoning yourself. You abandon your needs who your true personality, and then you bring forth whatever it is you perceive necessary to appease your parents, to keep them happy and to keep the peace so you can, you know, a lot of people who are anxiously attached will become big people pleasers'cause they're like, let me just bend over backwards and make you happy so that I can protect this connection at all costs. But as you said earlier, it becomes so exhausting and so lonely and isolating because you are in a relationship, but you're not actually being seen or loved for who you really are. You feel like you have to. Continuously have this mask on and hold this appearance that isn't really you. And I've been there like I was that, like that person in so many relationships and it's just, yeah, it's exhausting. Yeah. And it's almost like it's false. It, you're not actually connecting with the person that you're even trying to connect with. It's just, I always love the saying it's, I'm not who I think you think I am. And it's like, oh, mind fault of just like, but my head around that. Yeah. It is this thing of like, we're just so much assumptions. And then at the end of the day, the whole point of dating and relationship is to find someone that you wanna, you know, enjoy life with. And when we're, we're coming straight away from these, and I definitely want you to explain more about, especially the anxious attachment when we come from that place of, well, even just some morphing in the masking, we're almost taking ourselves further away from a real connection is what our actual sole desires. And I, you know, it's like we could be so afraid of rejection or afraid of abandonment that we do that, but at the same time, we're actually kind of rejecting and abandoning the potential of a real connection or a potential of really, yeah. Showing a true side of ourselves. So it's like in turn of being afraid of fearing rejection, we're kind of doing it in our own way by pretending a hundred percent. It's like you are, you are focusing on attaching rather than connecting. Yes. Mm. And Oh yes. Yeah. Yeah. And so that in a dating scenario, you know, what that looks like is so for those who are anxiously attached, you'll probably resonate with when you've known someone for a very short amount of time, like a week, a couple of weeks. And you start to rely on this person to soothe you, to comfort you, to validate your emotions, to make you feel good. And hang on a second, this person is, in essence, a stranger. Why is it their job all of a sudden to take care of your emotional wellbeing? And again, that is stemming from because we don't yet have the skills or we haven't strengthened the ability to do it ourselves. So it's like the person in front of you. You may not even be seeing them clearly for who they are because you're not focused on connecting, which is instead of, I need you to make me feel better, I need you to validate me and make me feel good about myself. The focus actually shifts onto the other person. And that's when we are connecting, we're looking at the other person saying. How are you? Like, how was your day? How are you feeling about X, Y, Z? What are you doing today? And we are leading with a genuine curiosity to wanna get to know the other person. So that's the real difference is are you attaching, so outsourcing your emotional wellbeing to someone you hardly even know or are you connecting? So having a genuine curiosity to wanna get to know them and who they are and see if you are compatible for a longer term relationship. Ah, I love this. And it even goes back to what we were just saying about having being self resourced and self loved, and self connected. Because when you are a sober and self, you're not needing to like attach to everything around you or everyone around you. And so when you are like, you know, as it said, like the secure, then you can just connect and that's what the, what you actually, the soul genuinely need. Do you find that people within long term relationships still can be in this anxious attachment? I, you know, I see it more as like in the dating. Do you see it as well in like relationships? Yeah, I do. Wow. I think people can be in toxic relationships. And when I say toxic, I mean typically that's probably gonna be a combination of two people who have insecure attachment types, so like anxious or avoidant. And they can be in this dynamic for years where neither person in the relationship is actually probably happy or fulfilled or feeling safe. But they have grown so accustomed to their nervous system, sort of being in that fight or flight state and being really on edge and being used to that push and pull dynamic. So one minute it's explosive, you're fighting, you know, you are giving them the cold shoulder, or they're giving you the cold shoulder and you're like chasing them for their attention again. And then the next minute, you know, you make up and it's all hot and intense and. That can be a really addictive cycle. And sadly, some people stay in those dynamics for years. And it's often the reason that happens is because those people are actually not very aware or conscious. Yeah, of, hang on a second like this. Like they know on some level it's probably not healthy, but they don't fully know what is actually going on here. What is the driving force of this behavior and do I actually want to change? And I think that's an important piece is like you have to get to a point where you want to change. Because I know for me, I think I could confidently say there was a certain relationship, which was the relationship that when it ended was the catalyst to me learning about all of this and healing. But I think in that relationship I was kind of aware of that really anxious avoidant dynamic and kind of. Like hating it, but loving it. Yeah. At the same time, you know, because that drama and that intensity, it is fun and addictive on some level. Let's just be real here. You know? Yes, the goal is a secure relationship, but that in essence is pretty predictable, stable, safe, secure. Some people call it boring. So yeah, the addiction to the drama can go on for a long time. Yeah, and you know, even like what you're most familiar with, if you've been around relationships like that or if you grew up with like around those types of relationships, or maybe you even grew up with a relationship like your parents that you saw was really boring or like that they didn't have that passion, then you are the opposite or vice versa. You actually screwed up with that. So then that was familiar and normal. So as you said, it's so much deeper than, oh yeah, we kind of have this on and off relationship. It's often something that it's really either trying to teach you or even how you just shared, it sounded like you needed to have that relationship with that big catalyst and it really catapulted you into your work you're doing. So it's never. By accident. But yeah, we always have to really, you need to want to change. You also have to wanna break the cycle. Yeah, a hundred percent. Yeah. Yeah. You have to wanna do it your yourself. Exactly. And'cause your friends can tell you and all the things can tell you. And I always think you kind of need to always be burned to really be like, nah, that's at the start when you're learning, being burned and just being like, I can't go back like that. Because we can always look back on things with rose colored glasses and be like, was it really that bad? You know? We really did well with each other though. And you know those when you have a lonely moment. And that's where it takes the strength of, no, I want different. And if I want different, I have to choose and be different. Definitely. And on that note, that happened to me where my eldest sister, she also used to be anxious in relationships and she for like probably a maybe two to three years leading up to this point in my journey where I wanted to change. She kept telling me to read the book attached by Emil Bene all on attachment styles. And I wasn't ready. I wasn't ready to see it, to know it to change. So I kept pushing it away. I was like, I don't need that. I don't need it. I don't need it. And so it wasn't until, you know, yeah, my life like exploded with this relationship that I finally then was like, I want to change now. Give me that fucking book. And I inhaled it like it was, when I read it, it was so eye-opening because I finally understood why relationships were always so hard and I understood why I was showing up the way I was, why I was always attracting the same person with a different face. So having that really, you know, that moment of clarity was so huge. But still, and I wanna say this, to normalize this experience for people who are trying to heal. Even though I had that huge moment of clarity and desire to change, it definitely doesn't mean it was easy. And I had like so many moments in the process of trying to heal from that breakup where I wanted to run back to him and I wanted to slip back into that dynamic because even though it was so toxic, we will always choose a familiar chaos over an unfamiliar piece. And I had to really be so hard on myself to remind myself of all the reasons as to why I was wanting to move forward, why that relationship wasn't good for me, why it didn't work. I would sit there and literally just write lists upon lists of, to remind myself because in those moments when your emotions are so high and you wanna run back, your intelligence is low. Like you are not thinking clearly. So I had to like, in those moments, I would pull out the list and I'm crying and I'm like, okay, free the all the reasons why. And seriously gotta do that. Yes, I did the same thing. I had it on my phone and it would be in my no section, so I could easily get to, you need it. Every time you like, feel tempted to call them or anything. And I think as well, I love that you just shared that because yeah, almost reprogramming neural pathways that have that instant dopamine or that instant reward or feelings, as you said, familiar. Hell, even though we're a familiar chaos, it's almost like you, you're scratching the itch and it's like your neural pathway want to do that. So you're basically reprogramming yourself. So yeah, being so kind and graceful to yourself, because it's not like it's this easy thing. You are really changing deep, ingrained behavior. Deep ingrained beliefs. And as well with attachment styles, if we go back to as a child, it's this is what you needed to stay alive. This is what you needed to survive. You learned this attachment for Yeah, to stay alive for a reason. Exactly. So it's no small fee. No, it's not. And you know those formative years, let's say from when you're born to maybe seven. You are an absolute sponge. So the things that you are picking up on, the dynamics you are learning, they do become so ingrained in your identity, in the way you see the world, the way you see love and relationships. So just be very compassionate with yourself. Like you wanna be super compassionate, but also have that sense of tough love. And it is gonna feel like you said, because those pathways are so ingrained, it's almost, imagine there's a river and the water is gushing really strongly in one direction, changing your patterns. It's going to feel like you are all of a sudden trying to turn around and go up against the stream. That's not gonna feel easy. So we just need to normalize that, you know? But that's why having support from people who can help you is so important. Exactly. And to remember at the end of the day what your values are and what you actually do want in a relationship. And that was what I wanted to speak to you about is, Kay, so the people that have overcome relationship trauma, which. Most people have some version of maybe having to learn or, yeah. Having exp you know, life experience when it comes to relationships and dating and growing up, what would you say of like someone that is wanting to create a new template, so their relationships and, you know, wanting to more align with their values. How would you recommend for someone that's, because it's really vulnerable being in the dating scene. It really is so vulnerable. Oh, it really is. Yeah. Let's not sugarcoat it. Dating can be hard and it's, it's so, it's so complex, you know, because you as your own person are so intricate and dynamic and you have so many lived experiences that are gonna filter the way you see the world. If we think about all the humans who are out there trying to date, it's like it can be a real mind fuck sometimes, honestly. Well, little everyone's gonna a child just, yeah, all these like toddlers running around, it's hard. But what I recommend and what I do with my clients is sort of taking some time to get really intentional. So whether you're dating right now or you are not, but you know, you wanna get back into it, it's about, okay, let's just take a second. Let's take a step back and first of all, let's get very clear on what we used to do. So what were the patterns that I used to play into? What were the patterns that partners I was with played into, and how did those patterns and behaviors ultimately create the type of relationship I don't want anymore? Right? We have to get so aware because if we're not aware of what we're doing wrong, how do we know how to change it or what to change, right? So getting clear on that first and then moving forward. It's about. Instead of looking at what do I think other people want in a partner from me, what do I think other people find attractive, desirable, interesting. Bring the focus to yourself and saying, what do I want in a partner? You know, what is the standard that is going to be good enough for me? And this can feel really clunky at first because if you're used to just pleasing everyone else around you, it can be hard to sort of decide for yourself what you want, because you're like, can I ask for that? Am I allowed to ask for that? Am I deserving of that? It can feel clunky. So just taking baby steps and start to think about, you know, what are, let's say like your red, orange, and green flags in a partner. So your red flags being, okay, if this type of behavior was to present itself, it's an instant deal breaker. I'm not gonna welcome that person into my life anymore. And then your orange flags being, what are the things that when they come up, it's not an instant deal breaker, but it's just like a bit of a warning sign and I just wanna flag it and just pay some attention to it. And if it doesn't change in let's say the space of a month or a few weeks, then I will voice that. It's sort of making me uncomfortable. Or it's, let's say you have really different communication styles. Like one person loves texting, the other person doesn't, and they just wanna only speak on the phone. And maybe that's not feeling very congruent for you. So in a few weeks you wanna just voice that and talk about, you know, I'm noticing, I think we have like pretty different communication styles. This is what I love, what do you love? Do we wanna find a middle ground? And then seeing how the person responds to that bid for connection is really important. So if the other person is, oh yeah, let's talk about it, let's find a happy medium. Big green flag. If they are shutting you down or they tell you that you're being too needy or you're asking for too much for that simple conversation, that person goes into the red flag bucket. No. Okay. That's just not the standard we're looking at anymore. And then you have your green flags. So these are the things that you really desire in a partner, and not necessarily on a physical or aesthetic level, like they can be like nice to haves, but these are the things that you know you need in a partner to feel safe and secure. So must be comfortable with having, you know, vulnerable conversations, talking about emotions, a good communicator, like et cetera, the things you know you need. So give yourself that sort of roadmap so that when you go out there, you are not just leaving it up to chance or you're not. Leaving it up to your emotions, you know?'cause that's where things can get messy. If we just meet someone, we can then our emotions want to just latch on because it feels good. That's when we get, we mess up because we're not taking the time to properly assess, hang on, is this person compatible with me? Let me sort of cross reference it with these things that I've already decided for myself that I need. That make sense. Makes so much sense. And I just love what, even just what you're sharing, it's, yes, you're listening to the words they say, but it's also the actions. Like how are they responding to these questions or how are they responding to this, you know, this inquiry that you have. And I think it's so important, especially for women to be actively choosing the people that they are being in relationship with. I would see it so many times, even with friends or even just like. In some of my experiences, it's, it's almost like, well, they choose me and they choose me. That it's, oh yeah, this is fun and I'll go along with it. So what I love about this, it's like we're intentional in so many aspects of our lives, especially for maybe in work or in with your, you know, health and all these things. And we are so intentional. We have all these goals and then it's like in dating, no, it should treat that in the same way. And what was just coming up for me, because I also have another friend and she's just met her person. They're about to getting ready to having a baby suit and everything. And I remember a big thing for her is that people would always tell her like, your standards are too high. I think she, she met him when she was 36 and people would just like, your standards are too high. Like you Yeah. Basically saying that she needed to lower her standard. What's your, you know, I was obviously like, don't do that, but, uh, what's your view on this narrative of the standards are too high? Rhetoric? Yeah. I think, I mean, that's amazing that she found her person and power to her for not lowering her standards. You know, I think there's a fine line with this because we wanna be careful, right? Obviously there's having high standards and knowing what you want, knowing what you fucking deserve, and you're like, I'm not settling for treatment less than this because this is my new baseline. I back. That's powerful. But if you are having standards where you have a list of a hundred things that this person must tick, and if they don't, if they miss some of those boxes, they're instantly out, then I would encourage you to take a step back and have a look at why. You know, do you feel a lack of safety around being able to explore something new? Maybe someone who isn't, who you would typically go for or. Do you feel a lack of safety around compromise and letting go of a bit of control? I think that can be a thing with these extremely high and extensive standards can be maybe you feel scared to have any sort of lack of control. And I think as women, especially as we get into our thirties, mid thirties, we can be very good at being independent, right? Like we have our friends, we know how to take care of ourselves. Like we can build this sort of walls around us because we can be very good at being in control of everything in our life. And I think the more that the years go on, it can feel a bit scary to sort of loosen our grip on that and welcome someone in and potentially have things change. So that's something to just be aware of and maybe just check in with yourself if you feel like, if you're like, I can never get past the second date, the third date. Like it just, I meet these nice guys, but just none of them are doing it for me. I would say what's like the real common denominator here, and it's you and maybe let's just have a look at can we loosen some of that grip on the control. But yeah, I definitely think it's important to have your baseline of, you know, standards that you don't want to deviate from. Yes. Yeah. And you can always, you know, and like we have to be so honest with ourselves of what is this response? Is it genuinely, okay, this doesn't align with my values and it's usually coming from like a calm place and it's, yeah. This is just, it's a mismatch Or is it this Yeah, almost trauma response or you said like a protection of No out be there and it feels, you can feel it in your body when it's like a. Almost a trigger or Yeah, you're being highly judgemental and it's like getting curious with that. I love the practice or the practice, the, the tool of IFS where it's basically helped. Do you know what IFS have you heard of If fs No, it's this like tool where you can help to identify the different parts of yourself that can have this protector part that like comes online and is almost, has its armor trying to guard the front of your true self and it can be like activated and it's like you're no longer in your, you know, with the attachments, all your secure self, you're in this like protection self and so we can say all day long that we wanna have a relationship where we wanna do this thing. It can happen with anything. I wanna start a business, I wanna start a podcast and it's, no, but then there's like protection stuff can come on. Unconsciously, and then that's running the show. So then you just push everything away and you know, at the end of the day, it's trying to serve you. It's trying to protect you. It's not like anything shameful, but it's stopping you from getting what you actually feel like receiving what you actually desire. Like a real love. And I always think with, even with this standards piece, it's, I don't know if this is a controversial thing to say, but I've always found that like men are a bit more accepting with, I can always say, I'll say it with my relationship. I feel like my partner lets things slide so much more than I do. If I am in a mood. If I am, I don't know, like not that assertion of myself, I would say that, you know, he gives me so much grace and, and then vice versa. I'm like, okay, well I need to give him more grace with that. And like, I'm not perfect, so why would he need to be perfect? And I feel like we've kind of gone such a different direction where it's, yeah, we've gotta also let people be human at the same time. If it is. Poor treatment and if it's not actually good, but same camera, all human's, like we can't just rule people out with these small things or they have an off day or they have a, they're in a mood or something. Like we all experience that. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Yep. Why do you see, I got so many. No. Do you have anything more to say on that? Oh, I was just going to sort of adding quickly, I have not heard the term IFS did you say? Yeah, IFS, but I do sort of do parts work with people. Oh yeah. That's it. So parts work. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And what you were saying about those parts that come online to either protect us in some way, one thing I do always say to clients is a way to move forward is if you can just pay attention to that feeling that's coming online. Just connect with it and literally speak to it. I'll get my clients to actually think about that part in their body. Where do you feel it? What does it look like? And then actually just have a conversation with it and ask like, what are you trying to protect me from? And what ways do you think you need to protect me from that? And if we can just get curious and listen to it and just acknowledge it, then often that can really go a long way in helping you to release that control and move forward. Because it's like with anything, you know, with a child who's upset and crying, they just want to be seen. It's just see me in what I'm experiencing, acknowledge me, validate me, and then I will feel better and I'll get on with my day. It's the same for the emotions in our body. They're all there to serve a purpose. And if we can just get present with them, that can often, yeah, it can help us to move forward in the ways that we want to. Yeah, I love this. And it just disarms it. It just disarms art, so, yeah. Amazing. And I, you know, when, you know from my experience of with doing this as well, it's like. It no longer needs, if we even think of, because a lot of the parts that are, um, will be activated for me are inner child parts or like a protective part like that. It's, they no longer need to like screen, they no longer need to like take up space. It's because they're already seen, as you said, and then you can give them a different role and you can, you know, it's like we're such complicated little beings, I feel. Yeah. But we aware. Yeah. It's, but when we're aware of it, it's no longer, you know, as you said, like running on autopilot and then we're blaming the other person. No, it's got, they're just like a character that has come in to help you heal that part within yourself rather than blaming them. It's okay, they're showing me something within because yeah, I feel like when you're dating, and especially in the newer parts of a relationship. That will activate you. Like it just mm-hmm. Breaks it up. Mm-hmm. It's crazy. It will, yeah. You think you're healed and then you start dating and you're like, oh shit. I know. I used to get annoyed with myself about it, but then it's also you have to give compassion because Yeah, there can be so much of it. I think it's so important, even like to somatically, be aware of when you are in this like reactive fight or flight triggered response because you can really talk yourself into being like, no, this is real. Of course this is reality. And at the same time I'm like, no. I'm like, yeah, this part is being activated. All this inner child is being activated. So just having awareness around it. So I love that you do that. Yeah. What do you see for long-term relationships, why they either don't last or they fail? What do you see as a common denominator in, I think the first thing that pops into my mind is. I think it's very easy when a relationship starts to go long term. So let's say, I don't know, with long term, like over a year, like maybe from two years, three upwards, you know, it's really easy to get very comfortable with one another and think that we just know everything about the other person and they just slot into our life. And then we just, you know, we, again, we go back onto that autopilot and things, the novelty can be taken away. And I think with anything in life, when the novelty wears off, you're like, okay, like it's not exciting anymore. It's not interesting. And so I think probably the relationships that do go the distance is where both parties, you're staying conscious to that. And even if it's just bringing in little things, you know, maybe once a month or something, like trying something new together where you are bringing that novelty back into the relationship and. I think there's so much to learn about the other person. Like even if you've been together for 10 years, I think there's always more you can learn about the other person and being intentional about how are we not just existing together, but how are we connecting? Like again, it's all about bringing that intentionality back into the relationship. And so I think that's why, you know, those card games that people have that have come out now about like when you get to ask your partner questions, and I think they're a great tool, like a fun and engaging tool to, because we don't always know like what questions to ask. Yeah, right. Like we maybe I like, I just think, I feel like I know you so well. I feel like I know everything about you. But then sometimes you'll see a question and you go, oh my God, I never would've thought to ask you that. And then you do. It unlocks this whole portal of the other person. So I think that's really important is making sure you are staying conscious to connection. Continue to try to explore the other person, try new things together, see each other in, in different environments and you know, proactively work on being, I think it goes as well working on yourself as individuals to help the relationship last. It's don't just stop working on who you are because you now have this relationship and it's so easy to just, you know, for every little decision you make, you just turn to the other person and get them to like help you decide. Or you know, you just travel together all the time. It's a bit Who are you outside of this relationship? Are you still doing things that make you happy? Do you have hobbies? What are your friendships looking like? Maybe you wanna go on a solo trip and reconnect with yourself a little bit. You know, I was just, actually, I saw there's this guy I follow on Instagram. And I love his content. I can't remember the name off the top of my head, but he's been in a long-term relationship. He's been with his girlfriend for like all of their twenties and he just recently went traveling on a solo trip for five weeks and he was really open about it and talking about how he, the importance they placed on maintaining their independence in their relationship. And I think that I found it really refreshing to actually just give that permission slip. You know, I felt that through that content being like, wow, that's a permission slip right there for people who are in a long-term relationship to say, if I wanna go traveling by myself for a month, I can do that. And then think about who you will be when you come back from that trip having not seen your partner for a month, having all these experiences you get to then talk to them about and share with them. Like I think that is a really underrated, I don't know thing to do. Maybe I. I couldn't agree more. I'm a big solo traveler and I always did that when I was single. And then now in my relationship, it was even just last year, I went to Costa Rica for five weeks by myself, and I did Bali a couple of times. It was with like, I would do a bit of work at the start and be long done and we would, we'd do our own trips together, but then I like really love that part that needs that. For me, it's like I love to go and explore by myself. I love to go and do things that have my own things that don't include him. And I first, I used to judge it. I used to think that, is this a bad sign that I wanna do all these things independently? I think it helps to have a partner that's really like, obviously doesn't take insecurity to that or feel like he's so supportive with that. But I think it is important to have the things that are really special for you. Because you even mentioned it earlier that women would become so independent that. It can be scary to even feel like we could lose that. Especially if you have a past of feeling like you, you've lost yourself in relationships. And that was a big fear for me, especially when I started going down like my, you know, self-development spirituality and I had all these little things that I was doing and I was doing all these like weird stuff. Like I was going to these sound, you know, the things that I thought that men would think is weird. Um, I used to hide it as well. I used to be like, oh, my little secret things that I would just not tell. And even doing human design, I remember being so embarrassed about it. Like I didn't want anyone on a dating app or someone that I was newly dating to see what I was doing for work. I was mm-hmm. Be like, they will judge me. They'll modify our needs. And again, a mask. But I think, yeah, again, to how we even just set side at the side and you have to just be so yourself and what are the things that keep you engaged and keep you interested and not just lose that in a relationship. And then. What keeps it exciting or, yeah. Yeah. And I love to be like in different lights. I see yourself in different lights and do different things, but you have to really focus on your stuff as well. I feel like almost like you've gotta be interesting so that to create interest in the relationship, but you're not doing it for them. You're doing it for you. Exactly. And if you're not creating those areas of interest for yourself and the only thing that you focus on is the relationship, then that's all you're gonna talk about is the relationship. And that can get tiring and boring and it can get old, you know? So yeah, invigorate your life as an individual and that is going to help invigorate your relationship. Yeah. Mm-hmm. And then you naturally, you won't get lost in the relationship. You'll always have that sense of self and you know, you then can be growing. And I think there is something, how you just said about learning from each other and like coming back and being like, oh, and learned this thing today, or I did this thing today, or, um, and what do you think? As well as something that. Women don't understand about men and vice versa. But we'll start first with what do you think that women don't understand about men or what men need? And then what do you think that men don't understand about women so much? That's such a good question. I think, well, again, the first thing that comes to mind is what is Yep. Yeah. And I, I is maybe that, and again, this is like obviously a generalization, but I think it could be that maybe women don't always understand that men also have like deep emotional needs. Yeah. They also need to be seen and acknowledged and felt and validated in their own way. I think as women, because we have such emotional beings, we're very in tune with our emotions. We can tend to take the spotlight in the relationship. You know, in heterosexual relationships, we tend to take the spotlight in that way where it's, well, I'm the emotional one, so you need to always listen to how I'm feeling and you need to help me feel better. And you just be that stable base and that's how it works. But if we're forgetting to actually acknowledge the things that, like the man does that, you know, and often it'll be around, men are much more focused on, well, I'm here to, I think genetically it's, I'm here to provide, I'm here to give solutions to things I'm here to protect. And so I think acknowledging that is really important. And also just giving them the space to express themselves, like actually just inquiring in how they're doing, I think can go a long way. And then in terms of what men don't understand about women is probably that. A little bit can go a very long way. You know, I think men probably think that women need a lot, like they need so much validation and reassurance. And maybe in some relationships a woman is like that, someone who doesn't know how to give it to herself. But often just hearing a woman out, if she just wants to talk about her day, just let her offload it for five to 10 minutes. You don't even have to say anything. You don't even have to provide solutions. Just listen. And that is gonna go so far in making her feel loved and to help her feel closer to you. You know, it's like just that little bit of reassurance. Or just be in integrity and do what you say you're gonna do. Or if you can't, just let her know. You know, it's, that's all we want is just to feel considered and thought about and heard. Yeah. Yeah. Yes, so true. And like just be present with me. Even if it's for 10 minutes of just really listening. It's like quality of a quantity is what I'm hearing you say. Yeah. Yes. And I feel like as well with what you were just sharing about like what we don't understand with men is this, I feel like men really do wanna, there's so much of a, I guess, conditioning around being the provider and being that person that, you know, that they feel like they might have to be, and like that emotions aren't as welcome or as safe, but it's, you know, a lot of the time they wanna feel appreciated as well. And that goes, you know, something as simple as like really reflecting that back to them. The same as we wanna be considered, they wanna feel appreciated for what they do or even just what they move through. So I feel like that's always helped my dynamics of just what they're doing as well. Because I think a lot of time especially, and like I'm including myself, we could see what they're not doing, where they're not considering me. And all the times that I think as women, it's like we remember the last example of like, people have considered. A million times in the past two months, but he didn't consider me yesterday. So, yeah. You know, but yeah. Yeah. We're all, and even just understanding, you know, even when it comes to love languages, like understanding, having that conversation and understanding, in what ways do you feel loved and in what ways do you express your love? Because for someone, let's say the woman in the relationship, she feels most loved through physical touch, like lots of affection and also words of affirmation. So actually hearing those being told, I love you being told like you're beautiful, et cetera. But for the, let's say for the man in the relationship, the way he expresses love is through acts of service. So he shows her he loves her through getting her morning coffee or cleaning the kitchen after dinner or something like that. And so while he thinks he's being very expressive and giving her a lot of love. If she doesn't receive it that way, she won't feel it, like it won't mean anything. And so again, that's why communication is so important. Understand each other, understand the ways you best feel loved so that you can, you know, and like one thing I think we would always do is we want our partner to be a mind reader. Yeah. Like kind. Can I just fucking read my mind and just do what I want you to do in the way I want you to do it without me having to say it. That is honestly setting you both up for failure. And it's, if you actually just give your partner the blueprint, it's, this is how I really feel loved. This is what I would love more of. If you're available to give it, this is what I maybe need less of. And just giving that blueprint, it's gonna help your partner to love you in the way you feel loved and it's gonna set you both up for success. So make sure you're communicating that. Yeah. And you know, you want happiness and symbiosis in a relationship, so if you help them by giving them the framework of what best, like how best feels for you, then Exactly. Said, sending you both up for success. Yeah. Um, I know we're getting for the end of the time, but I really would've kicked myself if I didn't ask this because I heard you speaking about this on another podcast and I love it. I remember when I first realized this, like it was a big thing when I realized about the male gaze and about how we, even as women, we can internalize the male gaze. And I was like, I remember reading about it and just thinking, wow, I actually look at myself even through a male gaze and. Instantly I felt like a bit gross that I didn't Yeah. But at the same time, like wow. So yes, instead of me just rattling. Yeah. Can you explain that and how we need to like reframe how we see ourselves sometimes? Yeah, definitely. So this idea of the male gaze, I mean this is deeply ingrained into our society living in a patriarchal society where, you know, for many years like men were seen as the superior gender and women were there to just perform and look pretty and look attractive for men. And so whilst I think we've come a long way as a society, I think this is still very ingrained. And I really learned about this maybe a year ago or a bit less when I read this book, what's it called? Oh, I think it's called We Don't Owe You Pretty, we Don't Owe You Pretty was the book to Trump. Yeah. By Florence given, yes. And when I, same thing when I read this, I felt a bit sick. I was like, oh my God, I didn't realize how subconsciously so so much of what I do. So much of like what I do, how I dress, how I talk, all this stuff is filtered through the male gaze. So filtered through what do I think men find attractive and let me do and be that at all times because that's the subliminal message that we are fed as women. And so yeah, I think becoming aware of that is very empowering. Again, like awareness is such a huge part of empowerment and change. And so when I became aware of that, I was like, oh my God. And I think I asked myself the question, I'm like, how would my life change if I decentered the male gaze? If I just took that off the pedestal and put it to the side, who would I be then? And I think that's a great question to ask yourself if you're trying to become more authentic and more connected to who you really are. For me, I know this showed up in the way I dress, the way I present myself. So before I was aware of this, and in my teenage years and early twenties, I definitely felt like I had to dress, you know, like wearing tight clothing or showing a lot of skin in order to garner any attention from men. But the more I moved away from that and decentered that male gaze, you know, I've been able to step more into my authentic expression, which is I love dressing in oversized clothes, like maybe a little bit more androgynous. I love some baggy jeans, like a, like this baggy white t-shirt. I feel cool. I feel like myself in this. And I just started to really try to feed myself the message that if I want an authentic relationship, I have to be who I authentically am. I cannot present one version of me to get into the relationship and then all of a sudden be someone completely different once I've secured that partner. Because not only is that. Doing yourself a disservice and disrespecting who you really are. It's also not fair to the person you're getting to a relationship with because they think they're getting one thing and then they're actually getting something entirely different. So yeah, look, it's a work in progress and I'm definitely not, what's the word? I'm not immune to it and I know that I still probably play into it in certain ways. But yeah, becoming aware of it and asking yourself like who would I be? How would I dress? What would I talk about? You know, what parts of my life would I feel more confident showing if I decented the male gaze? If that wasn't a thing anymore, mean? Yes. And it's even what we were saying about the chameleon on at the start, it's like when you realize that like this version that you create of and through the male gaze will never, ever be as good as your authentic self. Like it's just impossible. There is no way you either can't keep it up, but it will just never be like better than who you authentically are because. I think even, and this even like aligns or brings in even just like they're aging them because this we're so conditioned or it's so ingrained that we will only be safe or we will only be loved if we are desirable to a male. Like this is like so yeah. In our subconscious and it's so sad and it's a way to control, it's a way to, you know, keep the feminine in that more vulnerable place, but really when we can see that, yeah, the most desirable anyway to yourself is always gonna be who you authentically are. And also as well, it's not something that we have to even be changing ourself for. For those who aren't even aware'cause it, we've just jumped into the male gaze chat. It's the male gaze is this idea of, or this concept of you are looking at yourself or even other women through what the male gaze is. And I remember when I was reading that book, I was like, yeah, I do look at that certain body part of mine. I look at my boobs while I like, how do my boobs look in this or my bum and stuff like that. And it's like, why am I carrying what those two specific areas look like? And then like even when you look at an other woman, you are like looking at her figure through the eye of how a male looks at that. And it was, yeah, it's so unnecessary. And it's like when I felt weird, I was like, wow, that really is weird. And as well, it can be linked with internal life, patriarchy and all the things. So when we're, as you said, when we come aware of it, then we can just come back and where, who do I actually am I? And if I just had the space and the freedom, because really the only way that is just holding us down, the freedom to just authentically express and be, and if you wanna dress sexy, amazing, but let that be your authentic self. Not because this is what. I think I should look like, because I even remember wearing these dresses that were so tight that I would be so uncomfortable and like I still wear tight thing, but it's, you know, it's not out of this. Like, I remember I would just be so uncomfortable wearing high heels and just like prodding along and I just, yeah. So unnecessary. Yeah. Yeah. Honestly, and something that actually really shifted my perception was, it was actually a conversation I had with my dad. I was in Bali, I was just living in Bali recently, and I was on the phone to him, and we had quite, I was feeling quite vulnerable this day and I was talking to him about dating actually, and expressing this concern because, you know, in Bali there's a lot of very beautiful specimens and, um, a lot of very typically feminine women, so, you know, in like skirts, dresses, tight clothing, like very beautiful. I wasn't identifying with that. And I remember feeling really vulnerable about it and saying to my, I was like, I just feel like I need to talk to my dad about this. And I was crying on the phone and talking about how I felt like no man would choose me when they could choose that, you know? And then he said to me, it was like, so do you think that men, all men in the world just find one type of woman attractive? And I was like, and I was like, I guess not. And then he said, would you wanna date a man who was putting on a mask, being someone they're not, because they were just trying to impress you and trying to be what they thought you wanted them to be. And I was like, Ew. I was like, no, not absolutely not. And he was like, right. So you wanna date someone who's just themselves, who is authentic, just confident in who they are in their skin, who's men want that as well in a woman. And it really. It just, it did something, it shifted something in my mind where I was like, oh yeah, you know, if we're talking about like typical beauty standards, I think, you know, we've all been fed this image of like the Barbie and the Kendall, for example. So if a man was to think that, oh, in order to be attracted to a woman, I have to be tall, tan, buff, you know, perfect symmetry and all that. But it's like there are so many people who I find attractive who don't fit that bill at all. Like, they could have, they could look totally different. They might have something unusual about them. And a lot of the time I can't, it's, you know, attraction is often this instinctual thing that you feel attracted to. You can feel attracted to someone as soon as you look at them without even being able to first describe what it is. You're just like, there's something about you that I just find really attractive and alluring and you know, what is attractive to you, to someone else might not be. So, it's attractiveness goes so much deeper than just how you look. That helped me to realize that there are so many different men who I would find attractive that don't fit that typical beauty standard. Therefore, surely there are men who would find me attractive or like other different types of women attractive who also don't fit. You know, that tall, really slim, blonde bombshell, whatever it is in your head that you think be Yeah, I love bless your dad. We love equipment. I know. Just like when the good, when the data voice hits, it hits. Mm-hmm. Um, it's so true and I feel like as well with it is this energy, it is that confidence that just exudes when you're in that authenticity. Just where you were saying about like if the male was doing what women try to do with the male gaze perception. It would be such a turnoff, like such a turn off. Mm-hmm. It would be a full I so why are we, you know, why are women trying to do it? And it's, again, it's just a deconditioning so like it doesn't get, keep getting passed down. So yeah. Yeah. I love that. Thank you for sharing and thank you so much for coming on. I've loved chatting with you. So My pleasure. So for everyone who will wanna dive into your work, please share where they can find you and what you're doing at the moment. So yeah. Um, so you can come and find me over on my Instagram, which is at MIM Watt. I've also recently started a TikTok, which is just similar content, but it's Mim Wat one I think. So growing that. But yeah, come on over my Instagram, come hang out. And if you are interested in working with me or going deeper on this stuff, I do have a signature program called Peacefully Attached, which is going to be relaunching very soon. So yeah, come over, hang out, ask questions, and love to connect. Definitely go follow Mimi. I love what you share. I feel like you really, you go so many steps further than just what. Is commonly said with relationship things like even just, you can feel how embodied you are in your work. So thank you for all you're doing. I love your, all the things you share on your Instagram. I feel like I just learn something new all the time. Oh good. That's so nice to hear. And like D perspectives, I really feel like you're like channeling your own perspectives with things.'cause you know we can. You know, we're so much, we're receiving so much all the time every day. Mm-hmm. Like you have a really unique voice in the way that you share. It's really good. Aw, thank you so much. 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