Ep #36: Retroactive Jealousy: The Secret Shame Women Carry in Relationships With Emma Elmoza (Part 1)

So many women secretly struggle with this, but almost no one is talking about it… retroactive jealousy.

In today’s episode, I’m joined by embodiment coach Emma Elmoza, who opens up about her own journey from insecurity and self-doubt to building deep confidence and self-worth through embodiment work. Together, we explore the concept of retroactive jealousy — what it is, how it shows up in relationships, and why it often comes with so much shame.

If you’ve ever spiraled over your partner’s past, compared yourself to their ex, or felt that anxious pit in your stomach you couldn’t shake… this conversation is going to make you feel seen.

Inside this episode, you’ll learn:
- Emma’s personal story of going from low self-confidence to embodiment coach
- What retroactive jealousy actually is and how it manifests in relationships
- Why women feel so much shame around jealousy, and how that keeps us stuck
- The link between past relationship wounds and retroactive jealousy in secure relationships
- How to start naming and understanding this pattern so you can move through it

This is part one of a powerful two-part conversation. In next week’s episode, we’ll dive deeper into healing, self-trust, and the exact practices that help you move beyond jealousy into grounded self-worth and freedom in love.

🎧 Tune in now! And if this episode resonates, send me a DM on Instagram—I’d love to hear your thoughts!

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- Experience KunYin in person → https://emmelmoza.as.me/kunyininpersonclass

- Connect with Emma on Instagram → https://www.instagram.com/emmaelmoza/

- Passionate about transforming the lives of women? Become a KunYin Instructor. Let’s chat! → https://emmelmoza.as.me/discoverycall

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Transcript

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You are listening to the Secure Love Club podcast. I'm your host, Mimi Watt. Hey friends. Welcome back to the club. Today's conversation is a little bit different. I'm joined by the amazing Emma l Moza, who is an embodiment coach and facilitator doing incredible work with women around confidence, visibility, and learning how to truly be seen. This chat was so juicy that we actually had to split it into two episodes because. We covered a lot, and there was just no way that I was gonna cut any of this out. So in part one today, Emma takes us through her own journey to get us started from struggling with insecurity and using alcohol as a crutch to finding meditation, embodiment practices, and eventually becoming a leader who helps women step into their fullest expression. She shares so openly about her path into somatic movement and how learning to release stored emotions. Through the body can completely transform your confidence, energy, and even the way you show up in relationships. We then dive into a topic that most people have never even heard of, but so many secretly struggle with, and that is retroactive jealousy. Emma explains what it is, how it shows up in relationships, and she shares her personal story of how it played out for her. And what it brought up in her body, her emotions, and her self worth, it is a very juicy story. And this part of the conversation is going to feel like a massive aha moment for so many of you because it puts language around an experience that often carries a lot of shame. And I know for me in this conversation, I even felt relief and a bit of an aha moment as Emma was sharing on this topic. And lots of, uh, memories from my past relationships were popping up and. Things were just clicking into place in a way that they haven't before. So it's really insightful. And then in part two of this conversation dropping, next week, we'll go even deeper. That's where we move into the connection between self-trust and relationship trust, and how to begin healing from retroactive jealousy and the practices Emma uses with herself. And her clients to release old emotional patterns and step into grounded self-worth. So get ready. This first part is going to open your eyes to things you might not have words for yet, and the second part will show you how to move through it. If you are someone who experiences or are working on, um, healing, jealousy in relationships, jealousy around your partner and who they've dated in the past and things like that, this is definitely the episode for you. So. Get ready and let's dive in. Emma, welcome to the Secure Love Club podcast. How you doing? I'm good, Mimi. Thank you for having me. My pleasure. I'm so excited to have you on. So, to our beautiful listeners, Emma actually reached out to me a few weeks ago now with a very interesting proposition for the podcast, and she wanted to talk to all of us about something called retroactive jealousy and the role that plays in relationships. And it's such a fascinating concept, and once Emma goes into it and explains more about it, I'm sure you'll resonate and understand. So I'm really excited to have this conversation today. Um, so Emma, before we dive into that topic and what retroactive jealousy is, do you wanna just give our listeners a quick little intro into who you are and what you do? Yes, of course. So my name is Emma and I live in Melbourne, and I am a embodiment coach and facilitator. And I've been doing this for over five years now. And I mainly work with women around confidence and visibility. So I'm there as a guide to release any blocks around being seen and any blocks around any insecurities that they may have that stops them from taking the action that they wanna take. Because a lot of the women that I work with, they feel this deep calling to make an impact in the world, and I love supporting that process. I feel like there's so many incredible talented and gifted people in the world who often feel stuck and afraid to move forward. So I love supporting that whole creative process, and I've been through it myself and it's been a rollercoaster and we've briefly spoken about that. So it's really nice having someone there as support as you make all that happen. Oh my God, it's absolutely invaluable. The work that you're doing with women is, is so invaluable because you're right, there's so many talented, incredible women in the world and our communities who have so much to share with the world mm-hmm. But are often held back by their own fears of being seen and maybe experiencing rejection or criticism or anything like that. Yeah. So I love that you are doing this work in the world. Yeah. And I'm actually curious, can you share with us what led you to stepping into this line of work? Yes. So I was someone who was super insecure and I would say that I had like zero confidence and I had no purpose for like most of my twenties, I went from job to job and I would see people connecting to their creativity and even like this sense of style. And I just used to be like, I don't get it. Like how do I do that? Like I was just so disconnected, like with even how to dress. Um, and I created this dependency with alcohol and I used alcohol as a way of expressing myself and letting myself be seen and getting loose and having fun. And I created an attachment with it for quite a while and. I didn't realize at the time because in your twenties in Australia, like all you're doing is drinking anyway. So I didn't think anything of it. Um, but I got to a point where I, it was COVID and I got stood down from my corporate job and I had so much time to myself. And randomly Deepak Chopra's 21 Day Abundance meditation challenge came into my life. And that was my first experience with meditation. That was my first experience. Even hearing the word abundance, like I'd never heard that word. And it was also my first experience with quietening my mind. So I was doing that for 21 days and then I kept it going'cause I loved it so much. So I just kept meditating every day. And I kept journaling every day. So I was feeling calmer, but I was still feeling lost. Like, what do I wanna do with my life? Like, I feel stuck. I know I wanna help people. Like I always knew that, but I just didn't know what it was. So I wrote in my journal one night and I was like, universe, send me the teacher that I need that's going to connect me to the service that I'm gonna do. And I didn't really think anything of, I just wrote it down and I just, you know, forgot about it. And then two weeks later I got connected to a woman named Joanne Oma, and she led me to this modality called Theater Healing. And I did that three day course and it's all about the subconscious. It's all about reprogramming and rewiring your mind. So I did it for myself, but after the three days, you can become a practitioner and then there are other courses that you do. And it just clicked like as soon as I did that course, it opened up my creative channel and I started to get all these ideas and. I like, like I said, I had no creativity, so it came in like a flood because I opened up that channel. Like, it's like I, well we did open our crown chakra and we, we create this channel, um, and we connect to our intuition and within that process we're connecting to the theater brainwave, and we learn how to rewire beliefs. So I started practicing on friends. And then the feedback was incredible. Like they were just getting instant changes. So I was like, okay, this is very natural to me. And this was in October, 2020 when I did this course. By December after practicing on friends and family, I was like, this is what I'm meant to do. So I started my business in December and I called it Water for Your Mind because it was all about cleansing your mind. And that's what it felt like when I first did theater healing. It was like water for my mind. But the name also came from Erika Badu song, it's called Kiss Me on My Neck. Oh, I love Erika Badu. Yeah. So I remember listening to one of her songs and she's like, give me water, water for my mind. And I just caught that and I was like, okay, that's it. That's the name of my business. So within that, I needed to establish my business and get it expanding. So Joanne, um, was coaching me for three months. So she taught me theater healing and then I asked her to coach me. For business related things. And we coach, I got had coaching for three months and then we were at the very last session and it was all about being seen. It was all about being seen. And it was all about stepping into the spotlight because I was getting clients from word of mouth. I got to a point where I was like, I think I need to be online. I felt this really deep calling. I'm like, I need to be online. But there was so much fear and resistance, but I was like, I know I need to be there. I know that that's where the expansion is. And she was like, okay. It's funny'cause it came up in the very last session and she's like, there's a dance class that I want you to come to my dance class. That's how she explained it and I fully trusted her. So I was like, okay, sweet. And I think it was in two weeks time from that. Um, session and I joined her class and it was such a different experience. So the modality that it was, it's actually called Kunin, so K-U-N-Y-I-N. Mm-hmm. And she created this modality and it's a central somatic movement practice. So it's kind of like, the easiest, most digestible way I can explain it is it's like a combination of yin yoga, Pilates, and ecstatic dance. But it's done slowmo, like a really slowmo and it's just about you, you and your body. And you're connecting to your body in a very beautiful, intimate way. Like with your touch and um, like with elements of the room. It's just beautiful. So I was in my first class and I was moving and I found it really natural and new and exciting, but then we had to like get up on our feet. And stand and move while standing. And this is where it's like really your time to take up space. And my whole body froze as soon as I came up on my feet. Like my knees were locked, my hands were crossed. I couldn't move my legs, I couldn't move my arms. I was like frozen. And then I thought came in and it was like, you only dance when you drink. And that one thought was an awakening for me because I didn't realize I even did that. Like I didn't realize that I only, yeah, I, I didn't realize that I only danced when I drank. And I, from that moment, I said, I'm going to access my confidence and this freedom that I'm craving from within. So I went on a journey of just doing classes every week for like a year. Like I was doing it every week in six week chunks. With breaks in between, but I was doing it for a year and then I felt this a year later. I felt like a completely different person. I spoke differently. I started walking differently. I found my style.'cause I was connecting, I'll, I'll come back to that. But I connected to my style. I started to speak differently. I had a glow. I had so much energy and I was so in love with myself. I was like feeling this overwhelming love for myself and I had never experienced that. I felt it for others, but I had never felt it for me. Like I was like my biggest cheerleader. And I remember that moment. I was like, I need to do this for women. Like I just knew when I connected to that feeling, I was like, women need to feel the depth of this feeling.'cause it was deep. It wasn't just like, yeah, I love myself. It was like in every cell of my body and I could just feel like it expanding everywhere around me. It was so deep and beautiful. So I became an instructor of this modality and that was an amazing journey. Like that training was next level. You learn about the body. So to take it a step back. This modality, like I said, it's, it's a combination of like yin yoga, Pilates, and dance. But you're connecting to your body in a very, um, in a very like conscious way. So you are going through, you are going through certain positions and certain movements, but you've got the support of music to take you deep into your inner world where it starts to evoke certain emotions that have been sitting in your body, but it gives you the opportunity to move it and release it. Mm-hmm. So you don't even need to know what's being released, but you're releasing emotions. And as you release that baggage, that's where you start to connect to you and your core and like who you truly are after years of like carrying this pain and this suffering and whatever. But with the emotions as well, you start to access pleasure and joy, which. Many women dunno how to get there. So it just takes you on this beautiful emotional journey of connecting to your body. And in the training you learn how to you go on your own personal journey and then you learn what it's like to facilitate. You learn about the body, how to support women through emotional releases. And you even learn about psychosomatics. So this is about like reading what the body is saying, like the language of your body as you are moving. Like there are certain parts of your body that um, represent a certain chakra, which then represents like your emotional condition and where you are at. And we got taught to also like read faces. So there are certain parts of your face that represent a chakra. So your chin represents the root chakra. Your lips are your sacral, your nose is your solar plexus, your eyes are the heart and your eyebrows are your throat chakra. So we just start to learn like this really in depth. Um. Philosophy of, of the body and how it's communicating, and that just gave me such a beautiful understanding of, of the body and how I can support women. So then I now teach classes. I teach group classes one-on-one. I create my own journeys, my own programs based on all of this that I've learned. So yeah, I think, wow, that's, yeah, that's how I started and that's where I'm at now. Yeah. Thank you for taking us on an absolute journey with that story of how you came to be the practitioner that you are. I love hearing that because it's clear to see that you are so embodied in what it is that you're teaching from the journey that you've been on. And to go from being a woman who. Had never even heard the word abundance, like I guess in this world, in our, in our vacuum of personal development and coaching and everything. Yeah. You know, we hear these words thrown around all the time, but so to never have heard it and maybe not even know what it means in a way, and to be in a place where you only move your body and dance, which is such a, you know, human expression when you're drunk, when your inhibitions are lowered to then go to this place of fully being immersed in it as a conscious, like when you're conscious and to, it's, it's just so powerful. And I think, you know, what came up for me hearing that was so many women, like, we don't know how to access those things within us. And so it's like we go around living our lives at so just stunted capacity for what we can have, be, do, achieve. Mm-hmm. Because we've got all these blocks in our body, all this emotion that is just stagnant and stored, like building up in like a trash can and we don't know how to get it out. Yeah. And so it sounds like such a gift, the work you do to help women access that and then express it and let it out. And it sounds like from your journey, once you did that, and once you continue to do that, and I've also experienced this myself many times, it's like you get this natural injection of energy because you've cleared out space in your vessel to then be able to experience more of the positive emotions that we can maybe put in access before. Exactly. So powerful. Mm-hmm. So now that we have a beautiful context of who you are and the work that you do, mm-hmm. Let's shift gears into this topic of retroactive jealousy. Mm-hmm. When you came to me and, and told me about this topic that you wanted to share, I was instantly fascinated because of the term itself. Like, I don't think I'd actually heard of this term, retroactive jealousy. So I was naturally very curious. Um, and I know for myself in the past and maybe many of our listeners who are anxiously attached, anxious in relationships, women who are looking to build their self-confidence and self-worth, jealousy in relationships is a very real emotion and experience. So let's go into this and can we start by you talking to us about what the hell is retroactive jealousy and how does it show up typically in relationships? And then we'll go deeper. Yes. Yeah. So retroactive jealousy, firstly, it's, it's not spoken about. It's not spoken about at all, which is why I find it even more fascinating. So, retroactive jealousy is when you are fixated on your partner's past. So that's like you are being so fixated on the exes, you're being fixated on their past experiences and their past relationships. Mm-hmm. And it can happen at different points in your relationship. Like sometimes it can happen at the very start, or maybe it can happen like, you know, a few years in,'cause for me it happened a few years in and what it looks like is. It creates, um, it creates sort of like a spiral in your head. It creates so much overthinking and so much tension in your body where you are comparing yourself to their exes or you're feeling triggered by their old stories or their memories or photos, or you need sort of reassurance from them, but you never feel like super settled and it looks like over analyzing their past, like that's actually what it looks like and what it feels like is so intense. It feels tight in your chest. It feels like your stomach, your heart is in your stomach. It feels super anxious. And, um, it can create a lot of panic in the body and a lot of, um, a lot of, um, it can make you feel really low in terms of self-worth and self-esteem as well. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So, yes, when, um, so actually Emma and I had a chat before we recorded this podcast, and we were, we were having a bit of a chat about this topic, and it just, it, it hit a nerve in me because I remember feeling like this in past relationships. And one particular example comes to mind, um, when I was dating my, one of my exes who was really avoidant. I was still very anxiously attached. And I remember that he, it was like in the early stages before we'd even become official. Mm. And there was this other girl that he had spent time with and had slept with and stuff. And I remember when I learned about it, even though we weren't, he didn't like cheat on me or anything, we weren't official, but I became. Obsessed. Mm-hmm. I was obsessed with fixating on the fact that he had been with this other girl. I remember like stalking her Instagram sound like such a freak, but like, come on, let's be real. Yeah, yeah. We've all, we've all been there and I was like looking at her Instagram all the time and like trying to connect dots. I was comparing myself. I felt so shit about myself, and it's like, yeah, you see that feeling of panic? I felt like my body was on fire. Yeah. Yeah. And I just couldn't even be present with my partner because I was so fixated. And I, I remember thinking like, is he thinking about her? Is he wishing he was with her? Is, am I as good as her? And all these, these thoughts and spirals. So would you put that into the same box as like retroactive jealousy? A hundred percent. Yeah. Definitely. Definitely. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. So, okay. Go into mm-hmm. Your experience.'cause people need to hear this story about Yeah. When, when this first came up for you in your relationship, what did it look like? How did it happen and Yeah. Let's hear it. Yeah. So, um, the universe doesn't give you anything that you can't handle and the universe will, I don't even like to say challenge or test, but it will bring you experiences for you to heal what you need to heal. Mm-hmm. Retroactive jealousy is, yeah, retroactive jealousy isn't actually about your partner. It's your partner becomes a mirror to your unhealed stuff. Mm. Okay. So with the story that I'm gonna share, like in no way, shape or form do I wanna blame my partner because it was my own stuff. Um, and I love him so much and I appreciate him so much. And I thank him for being such a beautiful guide for me to heal all of this because I have healed all of it, which we'll get to. But how it started to show up. So I've been with my partner for six years now. We never set a date, so I never really fully know the, the year. So, um, I would say a year in is when retroactive jealousy started to creep in without me realizing it. So he's a really good looking guy and I sort of, you know, maybe unconsciously put him on a bit of a pedestal in terms of looks. And he's a really beautiful soul as well, like the way that he interacts, he's so present and nurturing and just very, um, like, he's just naturally very loving. So I started to notice when we would go out, um, uh, when we would go out. You know, like we'd be around women and he would be talking to women and then it, like, something would just start to like, I start to feel like a bit of a trigger. Mm-hmm. And like, these are women like that I know and that I, I do feel safe with and that I do trust. But there was just something that was starting to like, activate. And then it would be like other women that we would meet, um, and I would start to overanalyze the way they look at him or like the looks that they're giving him. And then I decided to create that a story. And this is where like the spiral started to happen. And we never really spoke about our past in terms of past relationships.'cause we just didn't really wanna like go there. Like we were really conscious in that way. Like, we don't really wanna bring that into our space. Um, but what, what really triggered this? Retroactive jealousy and for us to discover what it is. And I thank him because he brought that term to me.'cause he did his research. What a king. So I, I know, I know. I am so grateful. I'm really grateful. So. Um, I was working out every week at this Pilate studio and I had this amazing instructor. Like, she was just so stunning on so many levels. Personality, like her voice, her body, everything, like her eyes, her face, her hair, like everything about her was just so beautiful. And I just felt so drawn to her. Like, I, like we would talk before class and then we'd like giggle after class and like, we're starting to create like a connection. And then, um, I would tell my partner and I'm like, I'm obsessed with her. I'm like, I fucking love her. Sorry, I don't know if I can swear here. Oh yeah, you can swear. But I love, okay, cool. I'm like, I love her. Like she's such a vibe. And then I was going for months. I remember doing another challenge there. And anyway, it was months and then me and my partner were walking, um, on a main street, a strip of like where there's a strip of cafes. And we bump into her and she's with her partner and we say hello. And I give her a big hug and I noticed that he's a bit uncomfortable and I'm like, oh, okay. Well, I don't think I fully noticed it at the time. I can't remember if I fully noticed it, but I just, I was like, oh, this is a really random interaction because they didn't even like look at each other. Mm-hmm. They didn't even look at at each other. It was so, it was really interesting and like, you know, with women are so intuitive, like I could feel into that. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Um. But once again, he had, he's done nothing wrong. Like obviously that's a really uncomfortable situation if you've, anyway, we're gonna get to the story. So a few days later that feeling was still in my body and he could tell that I wasn't fully right because I was, that icky feeling that I got like was still in me from that interaction. Mm-hmm. Like with how they didn't speak to each other, just something just didn't feel right. And I'm very intuitive, like I'm so intuitive, like my gut feelings just on point. Mm. So we were at the beach'cause it was summer and he's like, just tell me. And I'm like, no. I'm like, you know, it's probably nothing. And I'm like, I just don't wanna say anything. And I was just like, yeah, I just didn't wanna go there in case it was, it was true because I had a feeling like, do you guys know each other? That was the feeling like, do you guys know each other and Right. So at that point, so you didn't wanna bring it up because you were afraid that your gut instinct would be true? Yes. Yes. Because I had a feeling they knew each other and that was what my intuition was telling me. And then I was keeping that inside me for a few days. And then that's when the spiral started, like the spiral started of, oh, maybe they've been together, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Um, so yeah, and then we're on the beach and I was like, fine, I'm just gonna say it. And I'm like, you know, um, you know, the other day, like when we were walking on the street and we saw blah, blah, blah, like how I bumped into her and I was like, you know, I just noticed like something wasn't right there. I'm like, did you, do you know her? And he's like, yeah. And I was like, oh, okay. Then my whole body started to like fully react. Like I'm talking like internal panic attack. And I was like, oh, like, okay. And I, I knew I had to go. I knew I had to lean into that conversation, but I did not want to. Anyway, it turns out that they did have like a past relationship and, oh, I just can't, I can't get over this. Oh my God. I know. But the way that I reacted was like, what happened? He had cheated on me. Like that was the feeling. My heart sank and in my head I'm like, oh my God, we are over. Oh my God, I can't believe this is happening. Like that's the feeling that I had. And it made no sense to me.'cause I'm like, he's like literally the perfect guy, the most incredible person. And I'm feeling like I'm being cheated on. It was just so strange. And we've got that open communication that I was like, why am I reacting like this? And that was such a big experience for us that then he went into the retroactive jealousy, beautiful rabbit hole of discovering what this is. He was listening to a podcast. And I think, um, I think, yeah. So he found and he came to me, and then I realized that that reaction was related to my ex because I was cheated once upon a time. So that same feeling was still in my body, was still in my nervous system. And because I hadn't worked with the body yet, I had no idea. But as I started to do K and discover what all this means, I realized there was still residue from that past experience still in my body, which that's why I said retroactive jealousy is a mirror. My partner was a beautiful mirror to what was still unhealed and unprocessed from the past. So that's why I really wanted to come and talk about this today because it's. It's really common and there's a lot of shame around it. Retroactive jealousy. And women dunno what to do with it because they don't wanna share it and admit that I do feel jealous. Like it takes a lot of courage and bravery to actually express that. And it takes a lot of like putting your ego to the side and allowing yourself to be vulnerable and actually say, Hey, I'm actually jealous. And then it's like, what do you do with that as well? So it's like you, then you start to think the relationship's not right for you and all this other stuff. Like it starts to create conflict when actually you have a really beautiful partner, but there's just stuff unprocessed from the past that is coming up. I feel you. I feel you wanna say something. Yeah, I just, I mean so much I want to say. Yeah. But I think what just jumped out at me was when you said the word shame. Mm-hmm. Because shame like the. Feeling that when, when you're really jealous in a relationship where you're jealous of a partner's ex or or whatever, or jealous of other women who are around or men. Mm-hmm. It's the feeling. It's so true. It is shame because I guess as a society we've been told that like jealousy is an ugly trait and if you are jealous, you are insecure and therefore we feel ashamed of it and shame. I think shame is one of the hardest emotions to carry because shame implies that there's something wrong with me. Exactly right. Yeah. So I love for you that you had a beautiful, supportive partner who was able to hold you through that experience and not feed into that shame by making you feel like there's something wrong with you, but actually went to. Look deeper into it so that you guys could work through it together. I mean, that is such a blessing and so, so beautiful. Yeah. So when you had the reaction when you're on the beach mm-hmm. He tells you they used to be together. Mm-hmm. You are having that internal panic attack. Mm-hmm. So then, oh, and, and you said it felt like you'd been cheated on. Yeah. So then over the next, from that moment, over the next few days, how did you start, like behaving in the relationship? How did you, what were you mm-hmm. What was it like? What was the external experience? Yeah, great question. So if I take myself back there, I just remember feeling really shit about myself. Like, I just remember feeling like, no. Self-worth. I felt really insecure and I never thought that this feeling was gonna go away. I also felt like we were never ever gonna move past this. Like, it felt so big, it felt massive, but that's how big the feeling was in my body. Like that's how big and deep that emotion was. And I remember I needed like time to process it because it was so big for me. And when I look back at it now, I'm like, wow. Like I was carrying a lot inside that had nothing to do with him, but just in relation to my past. So, um, I don't remember feeling distant from my partner. I don't remember feeling like I was judging him. I don't remember judging him. I was just really in my fields. And you know, when you, um, when you're feeling like such a deep emotion like that, it feels so heavy. I remember feeling like just heavy and, um. And sad. Mm. I remember feeling sad. There was like grief. It brought a lot up. And like, I, what was the grief about? I think the thing is, I don't know. I don't know. It was just like really deep sadness. And I think it was related to my past relationship. Mm. And like what I've moved through, because in this work that I do now, it's like emotions come to the surface, but you don't even know where it's coming from. You don't even know how long it's actually been there. But there could be one incident that just stirs all these emotions up to the surface. So when I say grief, I remember, I think it was just really deep sadness, um, with even like, why am I feeling like this? I shouldn't be feeling like this. Like just that spiral as well. And then the shame of it too. And um, yeah, the shame was a big one. Yeah. The shame was a huge one. Yeah. And so. It sounds like with the retroactive jealousy, we almost put, um, your partner's ex up on a pedestal. Yeah. Is that how it feels? Yeah, definitely. Definitely. Yeah. Okay. So it's like we're putting the ex on a pedestal and then that is triggering a sense of, um, like low confidence, low self-worth, feeling ashamed of yourself because you're feeling jealous. And so what, what were you making it mean? So the fact that your ex had been with this woman mm-hmm. And, you know, let's, like for our listeners who can apply this to their own relationship, maybe they can relate. It's like, what were you making it mean? Mm-hmm. The fact that he had been with her about yourself in your, in your relationship. Yeah. What was I making it mean? I'm not enough. I'm not as good as her. I'm not pretty as her, I'm not as fun as her. Um. I like, my body's not like hers. And then, and then you start to get the visions. The visions, the vision are torture. Visions are torture. And because I, I, I had like, sort of like a relationship with her, the visions of them intimate and of their like all of it. Like it was, yeah, it was, yeah. I made it mean all those things about me. It was mainly about me. It was just about me, like I'm not good enough. Mm-hmm. And it kind of, um, yeah, it perpetuates this like feeling of rejection and, um, yeah, it's like I'm, it's like I created a story of like, I'm rejected. It's, it's wild because that's not even happening, but it's like what your mind should create. Does that make sense? Yeah, it makes perfect sense. I think that's a really good way to put it, is we create a story and we get so swept up in the story that we like lose touch with reality. Because the iron, the irony of that is that you said, I felt so rejected. Even though your partner has chosen to be with you. Exactly. Like he's not with her anymore. He wants to be with you. Exactly. So yeah, the mind. The mind is a powerful thing. And can you talk about, so let's go into when your partner went to research it, he came to you mm-hmm. With this concept of retroactive jealousy. Yeah. And then where did you go from there? Yeah. I think when he came to me with it, there was like my mind just opened and it was like, sweet, I can label this. Because it's been in my space, like, and it's, it's been torturing me. And I was like, I just felt instant relief. Like, this is normal, this is, uh, really common and I'm not the only one. And, um, it just gave me instant relief. Mm. From there though, I didn't really go into, okay, I need to fix this, because the awareness gave me a lot. It gave me a lot. Like, I felt like there was, I just released a lot of the stories even by just identifying what this is. Wow. So I didn't go on this sort of, uh, quest to actually heal it, but I ended up doing it anyway without me realizing it. So yeah, just being able to label it really opened up my world. Right. So it sort of did that help to remove some of the shame? Yeah, it did a lot. Yeah. You said it perfectly. It removed like, pretty much like 80% of the shame.'cause I thought I was the only one. I thought I was the annoying girlfriend that does this because I used to also have dreams of him, like, you know, getting with other women. And that's also a beautiful sign that my subconscious had that, uh, was still holding onto the betrayal from, from the previous relationship. So whatever kind of appears in your dreams, that's all subconscious. Mm. So like I said earlier, I was carrying a lot from my previous relationship. Um, and um, where did I wanna go with that? Um, yeah, it just knowing what it was just helped release a lot of it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's, um, that makes me think about my own experience with anxious attachment and when I first. Discovered that, like you said, I could put a label to why relationships had been so hard for so long and why I always felt anxious and insecure and why my partners would always like pull away and it was such a fucking fight all the time in relationships. And when I understood attachment styles and I was like, oh my God. Yeah. There's a reason that I feel this way and I'm not the only one and this is actually really, really common and it's not my fault. Exactly. It's not your fault. Yeah. And I felt that same sense of relief and that same, it was like the shame was lifted because if we go back to what we said earlier, shame is when we feel like there is something inherently wrong with us. Yeah. But when we can understand that no, no. There's a very valid and uh. Perfect explanation for why you feel this way. Yeah. It's called this. Yeah. And there's a way to move forward and and to actually transition and heal out of it. So Yeah. Yeah, you're right. Just in understanding why we are the way we are and why we do the things we do. Mm-hmm. So much relief comes from that. Yeah. So you said you started to, or actually when you put a label to it mm-hmm. And you said like 80% of that, uh, weight was lifted. Yeah. Did it still continue to have an impact in your relationship with your partner, or did that kind of lift quite quickly? Um, it probably was still there, but not as strong. Yeah. It was still there. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. But it wasn't as like, um, debilitating. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Mm-hmm. And. And so then when you said it was, it was, this was being brought up from your past relationship mm-hmm. Are you happy to share a bit about what happened there and Mm, maybe some of the links that you could put together, like in hindsight? Mm-hmm. Mm. Yeah. Like we were, we were very dysfunctional. Mm. It was a very like on and off relationship for like three years and I was anxious. He was avoidant and it was just a constant cycle for three years. Just yes, we're together, then we're not, then we're together, then we're not. And um, I. I was really insecure back then and I had like zero self-worth. So I just, yeah. I went on this journey, uh, with him and then throughout the process, uh, got cheated on. Um, but it also was confusing'cause it was like, were we together? Were we not? Like, it was just very messy. Like it just made no sense. Mm-hmm. Um, and within that process of like the stopping and starting, it just created so much stress in my body. I was such an anxious person. Um, I was such an anxious person and just really insecure and just like so fixated on him. Like I, I wasn't. Looking at everything else that I have in this world and all the things that I could be doing. I was just like tunnel vision, just him for three years. Um, there were some beautiful parts to it, but overall it was not a healthy relationship, so I was really exhausted by the end of it. Then I went overseas for like six months and that was epic, and then focused on myself for a year, and then that's when I connected to my partner, who I'm with now. So beautiful. Yes. Yeah. Does that answer your question? Yeah. I think how I was, yeah. It, it helps, I guess for people to have that context of realizing that Yeah, if you have experienced. Relationships where maybe you were in that anxious and avoidant dynamic mm-hmm. Or there was a lack of stability Yeah. And consistency and security in the relationship for various reasons. Um, that there's probably a strong correlation between that past experience and then Yeah. These feelings that arise even in a healthier, secure relationship. And actually, this is bringing up a thought that, so when I, so I've also been cheated on in the past. I used to be very insecure, very anxious as well, and then did a lot of work on myself. I got into a healthy, secure relationship was, which was amazing. Felt very safe with him. I trusted him completely. Mm-hmm. But I remember an experience where he went to a friend's bachelor party and they went to, um, this. This lunch and then there was like a strip club and all of that. And I've always been really uncomfortable with the idea of my partner going to a bachelorette party where there's strippers and stuff. Mm. Um, but I remember, so he told me he was going, I was already kind of off it, but I was trying my best to like manage my mind and just be like, Amy, just, it's okay. Yeah. You trust him completely. But he went to this thing and then when he came back, he told me that one of the guys in the group had organized like a private dance. And so it was like all of the guys in a room with this one girl up the front dancing essentially like naked. Mm. And the reaction that I had in my body, like number one, because I don't know, I find this like a very controversial topic because some people would argue that. It's fine. They're just, it's just a bachelor party. Like you don't need to make it mean anything. It's not like he was cheating on you. Yeah. But then there's another part of the conversation where it goes, well, if you're not comfortable with your partner doing that kind of stuff, then you don't actually have to be in a relationship where that is the standard. And I don't know, it's a bigger conversation. Yeah. But I'm curious on your take on it. But also, I remember when he told me that feeling like I fucking, I had a reaction, like as someone who is pretty, can manage my emotions, I had the biggest reaction and I felt fully, like he had cheated on me. I was so angry and so hurt and fully pushed him away. Like I got so angry. Mm. And I just had rage in my body at the thought of him looking at another woman doing that, of him being in that environment. And yeah, I really couldn't get a handle on my emotions over it for a while. So. What are your thoughts on that? And maybe if you had, if you used to have a different stance than what you have now or, yeah. Yes. Yeah. I love this and I, I really wanna bring it back to that experience would be so much more intense. The more that you're carrying things from the past, the more unprocessed things that are in your body relating to past relationships, like that experience in itself, your partner going to a box would feel so intense.'cause if I think back to six years ago, if my partner was to go to a box, I would be frozen for like three days. Mm-hmm. Like, it wouldn't really affect me. However, today I don't feel that same reaction. Mm, I don't feel that same reaction because I've cleared so much. And also I'm so connected to my self-worth and who I am. And also I trust him a lot. I trust him a lot. And I think that's, that's really important. So my take on that, it's different depending on where I'm at. And this is for everyone as well. It depends where you're at in your journey, if there's still unprocessed or if you have been, uh, releasing and connecting really deep to your inner self-worth and your identity and who you are and the trust as well. If you enjoyed today's episode, hit that subscribe button and leave a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Share this episode with your friends and come find me on social so we can hang out between episodes. All the links are below in the show notes.