Pain-Free After 50: Regenerative Medicine for Joint Pain Without Surgery | Dr. Fawad Mian

Struggling with chronic pain in your knees, shoulders, or back? In this episode, leading neurologist and regenerative medicine specialist Dr. Fawad Mian reveals why traditional pain management fails and shares non-surgical alternatives that actually work.

Dr. Mian shares his personal journey from being told he needed multiple surgeries to discovering PRP therapy and prolotherapy—treatments that completely transformed his practice and helped thousands avoid going under the knife.

What You'll Learn:

• Why cortisone shots damage your joints, ligaments, and tendons long-term (and what to use instead)
• How PRP (platelet-rich plasma) therapy regenerates damaged tissue naturally without surgery
• The truth about "bone on bone" knees and whether they can still heal with regenerative treatments
• Why staying active after 50 prevents falls, fractures, and loss of independence
• Memory-boosting supplements that support cognitive function (fish oil, curcumin, berberine, and what Grandma got right about ginkgo biloba)
• Practical desk ergonomics to prevent chronic pain for professionals working 10+ hours daily
• The surprising connection between blood sugar, insulin resistance, and brain fog
• How mold toxicity can cause mysterious pain and memory issues
• Why muscle loss after 50 accelerates joint problems (and how to reverse it)

Guest Bio: Dr. Fawad Mian is a board-certified neurologist and regenerative medicine specialist who helps adults over 50 stay pain-free and independent without medication or surgery. After suffering his own shoulder, knee, and foot injuries that traditional medicine couldn't fix, he discovered regenerative treatments like PRP and prolotherapy that transformed his practice.

Resources Mentioned: 

• Read Dr. Mian's book: Getting to Pain Free: How to Make Your Body Stop Hurting So You Can Start Living Without Drugs or Surgery
  https://www.amazon.com/GETTING-PAIN-FREE-Hurting-Without/dp/B08BW84CND
• Connect with Dr. Fawad Mian: ProloHealing.com
• Take the Quiz: https://course.prolohealing.com/reclaim-your-mind 

Does your calendar dictate your nutrition? 

• Grab The No-Time Nutrition Blueprint: http://store.feelgreatwithkait.com/ntn

Ready to stop trading your health for your wealth?

• Apply for coaching with Kaitlin: https://tidycal.com/kaitlin/apply

Transcript

Hey everyone and welcome back to another episode of the Feel Great with Kate podcast. I'm your host Caitlin Bornkamp and I am excited for this special guest episode today with Dr. Fawad Mian. He is a leading neurologist and regenerative medicine specialist who helps adults over 50 stay pain free and independent. And I love it even more because he does it without medication surgery or generic advice. So Dr. Mian, thank you so much for being on the show and I'd love to start with

Tell us about how did you get started helping people be pain free after 50 and how has your approach to pain management evolved since you got into it?

Fawad Mian (00:38.609)

Well, first of all, just want to thank you for having me on the show today. That's something I always appreciate and being able to share my story. So when it came to the things I currently do more so with the regenerative medicine and memory and whatnot, it kind of evolved over time. And so when I started out years ago and I went out on my own as a part of a large multi-specialty practice,

I actually started getting some injuries and that was like in the weight room. So one day I was actually just doing some shoulder shrugs and the weight kind of slipped a little bit. And then it actually irritated the small little joint in front of your shoulder called the AC joint. And it was really painful. I had a difficult time raising my arm up above my head, putting my jacket on when you have to put your arm behind your back. And I just felt absolutely miserable.

Around the same time, my foot started bothering me. I had actually done training in New York. So was walking all the time. That's probably actually the best shape of my life ever was in New York. But, you know, my foot was starting to hurt, but the shoulder was been nagging me even more. And so I actually went to the orthopedic doctor because that's what you're supposed to do. You go to the orthopedic doctor, your shoulder hurts. And so one of the first things that the doctor actually told me was, Hey, you know what, maybe we can actually get a surgery out of you. Maybe you have something called a slap tear.

And so in translation what that means is actually just a tear in the cartilage kind of on towards the top and the front of the shoulder and You know, he did some x-rays a short of arthritis in that joint that I mentioned He did an MRI. Fortunately, nothing was torn for him to try to repair back the physician assistant gave me some steroid injections into my shoulder joint and Even though it gave me like a little relief. I was still miserable. I still couldn't lift weights, which I enjoyed doing

Couldn't exercise, sleeping was horrible because you couldn't sleep because of the pain. And I felt kind of stuck. So I went back for a second round thinking that more steroids were going to be better. I really wasn't much better after that. I was still kind of stuck. And at that point, after a couple of months and after taking a leave on a constant basis, which in and of itself is an issue, just to mask the pain, the shoulder surgeon said, hey, you know what?

Fawad Mian (02:52.337)

maybe we just need to chop off part of the bone. And so that wasn't something that I actually wanted to hear. And I've actually gone through other surgeries before, including a knee surgery, I'll get into, which didn't quite work out. I wasn't interested in doing that. So I felt like I was kind of stuck on my own, just really treating it with pain relievers that were over the counter and doing something that I didn't believe was the right option for me. At the same time, that foot was nagging me even more. So I had something called plantar fasciitis. And that basically means irritation of the tissues within the foot.

on the bottom of the foot. Very common. lot of people have it. Bad shoes sometimes can really aggravate. So I went to the foot doctor again, because that's what you're supposed to do. You see the foot doctor. And the foot doctor told me, hey, you know what? You have plantar fasciitis. Let's get you some orthotics, which actually hurt my feet even more. And I was kind of, it was really miserable too as well. I had to get Frankenstein shoes, the big platform looking ones.

I guess now they're more in fashion now than they were back then, but it was really uncomfortable walking around in those shoes. And, you know, even then my wife and my friends are just like, what, look like you're 90. Like, why are you walking that way? You shouldn't be walking that way. And because of the way that my foot was bothering me, it started changing my gait, or basically what that means is my ability to walk. And so I started aggravating the need that actually caused me a problem over 20 years ago, well, 25 years ago now.

And I had a torn ACL at that time. so now I had my shoulder, my knee and my foot were all going at the same time because everything was getting misaligned. Everything was getting irritated. The foot doctor tried to do some treatments on my plantar fasciitis. So it went back to my old friend and let me get some more steroids. did a couple of rounds. Didn't feel too great after the second one. And so I was like, okay, let's do a third one. So I did get a third treatment and I thought, you know what? Third time is a charm.

I actually feel a lot better. I was like, okay, finally kicked in after three times. And so the next thing I did is I actually went to the gym and I was like, okay, all right, I'm going to run on the treadmill now. So that was actually a big mistake because not only did it aggravate my foot pretty quickly after about 20 minutes, it actually aggravated my Achilles, which is the tissue on the back of your heel, as well as some of the ligaments that are inside the ankle. It was really, really painful. It was much harder to walk really at that point.

Fawad Mian (05:13.329)

Again, I went through some treatments and you I found out, hey, you have something called a haggling deformity, which basically is a bony overgrowth on the back of the heel. And after all the treatments were failing, he's like, you know what, maybe we just got to shave off the bone. And so it's not as simple as just shaving off the bone. It's actually shaving the bone, detaching the tendon, putting back end with anchors and suturing everything up. And I was like, I don't really want to do this.

Kaitlin Borncamp, CPA, NTP (05:41.592)

Thanks

Fawad Mian (05:42.649)

I didn't want steroids because then I was trying to learn that steroids actually cause disruption of tendons and break down cartilage too as well. And if you do it on the achilles, you're likely to rupture it, and you're going straight to surgery then at that point. And I didn't want to do that. My knee, I actually went back to an orthopedic doctor, a different one, who barely looked at me and just tugged on my knee and said, you know what? We need to actually just go in there and scope it to see what's happening.

you clearly want to get some imaging first. So I actually had to have a friend of mine like order the MRI for my name, who was an internal medicine doctor. And he, you know, basically I found out that the ACL that was theoretically repaired by way back in med school actually wasn't repaired. And so, you know, I kind of went through all that surgery, all the nausea, the inability to walk and the difficulties afterwards. And it was like, I went through all of that for nothing. Plus I have arthritis on top of that.

Kaitlin Borncamp, CPA, NTP (06:35.214)

Mm.

Fawad Mian (06:36.017)

And so I really felt like I was stuck at a crossroads really at that point. I didn't know what to do. I was searching for like answers, like on the internet, like anybody else, right? And everybody wants to Google something. And so, you know, this is circa like 2011, 2012. So even though we have the internet and we have all that, amount of resources that were available back then compared to now is like a day and night difference. It's not even close. And so it was really hard to find stuff. And I stumbled on something called prolo therapy.

So prolotherapy actually is an injection-based treatment where we inject a sugar-based solution to create a little bit of inflammation. What that does, it helps recruit cells to try to help heal the area. And I went to a guy out in Colorado and he had a training course and I got some treatments with some of the doctors there and I started feeling a bit better. I've got progressively more training.

As time went along, learned about platelet-rich plasma, or PRP, before it became a little bit more ubiquitous than it is now, and autologous stem cell therapies. so, make a long story short, I know that was a little bit long-winded, with my foot, I had actually gotten two rounds of PRP into my plantar fascia because I had to help undo what the steroids did and the damage it did. For my Achilles, I actually had to have multiple rounds of PRP on top of the prolotherapy I had to try to help heal that. So now...

I don't wear the Frankenstein shoes. I don't feel weird walking around doing that anymore. I don't look like I'm grandpa who was 95 trying to walk, although I do see plenty of grandpas are working quite well at the age of 95. And then I was able to do that. And then in terms of my shoulder, one day, my clank after everybody was gone, I just took off my shirt and started treating my shoulder joint. I couldn't do it ultrasound guided at that time because there's only so many hands you have to do that.

But I actually had to do a couple of rounds of PRP and prolotherapy. So I had to do six treatments to undo what all those steroid injections did to my shoulder joint. And then just to give you an illustration of what I mean by damage. So there was arthritis, but when I looked at the ultrasound images, when I was looking at it, it did look a bit gnarled up, but after the steroids, it was really damaged afterwards. And so it actually started breaking down the ligaments. So I actually had to repair the ligaments and the joints started looking better too as well.

Fawad Mian (08:53.167)

I prove it to myself years later when I actually had a little bit of inflammation in my hand, in some of lining there, I inject a little bit of steroid because it wasn't going away and I had some autoimmune issues. It made the inflammation that was with the lining go away. But once again, when I looked at the ultrasound before and after, it actually ate away at the joint. And a lot of people are unaware of that. They don't know that at all. And so when you actually see it, you're like, wow, that's actually what it's doing. It's literally like.

one of those little experiments where they said, okay, if you put like a tooth, or remember younger, like in Coca-Cola, it would actually just eat up the tooth. That's literally like what this stuff does. Yeah, the decay, it's crazy. And so, you know, I was seeing a lot of things that didn't make sense to me, like in my neurology practice at that time, because I was getting referrals from orthopedic doctors, pain management doctors, and they're saying, this is all neurological, and I'm scratching my head like.

Kaitlin Borncamp, CPA, NTP (09:32.214)

The decay, yeah.

Fawad Mian (09:49.746)

What do you mean? This is like neurological. Well, it turns out a lot of these patients did have things that eventually led to neurological things, but they had torn rotator cuffs, torn labrums, chronic neck issues that weren't really being evaluated, a lot of instability in the different joints and all that. And so I began to implement that slowly in my practice. I guess now it's been about 14 years or so. And we had a lot of good success with folks over the years, been able to prevent people from getting tooth surgery.

And that's one thing that we always give people an option to. We always tell people, look, you know what? Just because you have this doesn't mean that you have to ultimately go to surgery. And just like myself, just because you have surgery, it doesn't mean that automatically everything is gonna be fine and you're not gonna have problems later because inevitably people do at some point, especially when you work around the joints.

Kaitlin Borncamp, CPA, NTP (10:36.95)

Mm-hmm. Yeah, well and I love what you shared is, you know in your own personal journey It sounds like early on you realized you had to be your own patient advocate Right and kind of push back a little bit on the initial recommendation that the the doctor on your shoulder was like Let's just chop off part of the bow and you're like, hold on a second That doesn't sound right to me and you followed your instinct which I really like and then in terms of how your approach evolved I mean, that's why I think regenerative medicine is so necessary and why it's so brilliant is because you know as well unpack some of the

Fawad Mian (10:44.784)

Mm-hmm.

Fawad Mian (10:51.537)

Yeah.

Fawad Mian (10:59.537)

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Kaitlin Borncamp, CPA, NTP (11:04.366)

tools you like to use within your practice. mean, something like PRP, the platelet rich plasma is truly regenerative. And I think more people need to be like empowered that that exists. So I'm glad that's why I wanted to have you on the show, because I know from my own journey, I mean, I have a lot of family members, mostly female who have had issues with their knees, with their hips, you know, things like that. And it gets to a point where I think that they and most of them have led to a knee surgery or knee replacement. And so

Fawad Mian (11:09.265)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Fawad Mian (11:16.763)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Fawad Mian (11:25.669)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Fawad Mian (11:33.873)

Hmm.

Kaitlin Borncamp, CPA, NTP (11:34.328)

But in our family, there wasn't much talk around, have you tried an alternative therapy? Even though I'm trying to remember, like, I think my grandmother got her knee replacement, gosh, it would have been probably back in 2012-ish. So maybe that was just so new. know, regenerative medicine might have been so new at that time, so kind of like edge case. But now, I mean, it's almost like, why wouldn't you try PRP or stem cell or some of other things you like to do with people first? So.

Fawad Mian (11:39.141)

Mm-hmm.

Fawad Mian (11:46.797)

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Kaitlin Borncamp, CPA, NTP (11:59.458)

So just to clarify, Dr. Mian, when you say steroids, are you referring to cortisone shots?

Fawad Mian (12:05.689)

Yeah, so, yeah, so cortisone, they have many different names and variations or whatnot, but it's actually cortisone, yeah.

Kaitlin Borncamp, CPA, NTP (12:09.742)

Okay. Yeah. And so that's a dichotomy shift in itself, right? Because just like you said, somebody reports to their doctor that they have pain and then the first thing people say is, got, you know, get a cortisone shot. And so what you're saying is that based on the before and after ultrasound is that it may help initially with the pain, but it's actually deteriorating the underlying ligaments. Is that right?

Fawad Mian (12:15.642)

Mm-mm.

Fawad Mian (12:19.664)

Yeah.

Fawad Mian (12:23.057)

Mm-hmm.

Fawad Mian (12:33.049)

Yeah, it's so it's the ligaments, joints and tendons. So it actually eats away through everything, even though we do know it's kind of it's chondro toxic, it's toxic to your bones, it's toxic to the tinnocytes or to the cells within the tendon.

Kaitlin Borncamp, CPA, NTP (12:38.151)

wow.

Kaitlin Borncamp, CPA, NTP (12:43.15)

What did you say chondrotoxic? What does that mean? Okay, interesting. Okay.

Fawad Mian (12:47.951)

That's a cartilage. yeah, so that's actually been proven. So even then when we do regenerative treatments, use, so when we numb things up, we have to use different concentrations and variations of things too, because even though it's not steroid, too much of the anesthetic too as well, if you dump it into a joint, actually can be toxic to the joints. we're always trying to be wary and careful of what we're putting in, especially when it goes into joints.

Kaitlin Borncamp, CPA, NTP (13:13.014)

Yeah, yeah. So what is kind of your final takeaway on cortisone shots? Are they good or are they bad?

Fawad Mian (13:19.313)

It depends. So if you're doing it for anything like a chronic musculoskeletal issue or damage, I think that's a no-no in my mind. And that includes the epidurals that people get because it's not addressing any instability. And particularly in women, there's increased risk of osteoporosis and fractures. And that's why they limit it to like three treatments like in a year or whatnot. But having said that, for instance, I'll do

nerve injections under ultrasound to try to help dissect the nerve away when it is chronic inflammation. So carpal tunnel is a common thing when you get a nerve caught in here around, or an ulna nerve when it's caught around the elbow whatnot. So it's useful in that regard. And we don't really see any long-term effects from that in terms of damage. So once you're skeletal-wise, nerve-wise, that's kind of how I would use it for those folks who are utilizing it for rheumatological issues and autoimmune issues. That's like a whole nother can of worms.

And it's a double-edged sword with that in terms of controlling the symptoms versus the flares.

Kaitlin Borncamp, CPA, NTP (14:21.39)

Right. Yeah, that makes sense. I can appreciate that. So in terms of somebody who has had multiple cortisone shots to a shoulder, a knee, and it is just bone on bone, is there anything that can be done to help re-stimulate or truly regenerate the joint?

Fawad Mian (14:27.482)

Mm.

Fawad Mian (14:36.891)

So I can just give you an example of patients come in when they say my knee is bone on bone based on the x-ray, but then we get a more advanced imaging or look at it under ultrasound. We're actually able to see that there's still some cars left. There may be some defects here and there. So they could still respond actually to things like PRP or autologous stem cell therapies that actually would provide a lot of benefit, decrease pain, as well as improve function over a period of time.

That doesn't mean that eventually they may not get to a knee replacement if it's so far gone or whatnot. But it is a great alternative prior to having actually something like a knee replacement.

Kaitlin Borncamp, CPA, NTP (15:12.27)

I love to hear that. That's very optimistic for me in my future looking because I'm definitely looking to avoid the knee surgeries if I can shift that. I like to take family history kind of for like a grain of salt where it's like, okay, this is what I need to look out for, but I'm going to do my best to try to avoid it. And so thank you for that. Thanks for giving me that optimism. All right. So I wanted to ask you about peptides because they are so like they're all the rage right now. So tell me Dr. Mian.

Fawad Mian (15:16.144)

Hmm.

Fawad Mian (15:23.782)

Yeah.

Fawad Mian (15:27.171)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Fawad Mian (15:37.487)

Mm.

Mm-hmm.

Kaitlin Borncamp, CPA, NTP (15:42.102)

Are peptides worth the hype in your opinion?

Fawad Mian (15:45.371)

Well, like many things on Instagram, there's hype about a lot of different things. Peptides, think, will... So there's a lot of... I'll say this on the right. The FDA is not high on a lot of... I mean, this administration, maybe things might change in regards to that, but the FDA is not high on peptides in general. There are some warnings about even using it or whatnot. And that doesn't mean that's not gonna stop people from utilizing it. You're gonna see it on...

large podcasts and things like that, like Joe Rogan, all that you hear about these kinds of things. And so I think there is some level of benefit to it. I think if we let the patients know, this is considered really experimental. There are not a lot of like human data on this. that essentially, since we don't know, don't everything that could potentially happen. We can certainly use this and there have been patients that have responded to this.

As long as we frame it that way, I think we can utilize it. It's not only utilized just for chronic aches and pains, but sometimes also for energy too as well, also for skin, chronic gut issues and all of that. So it's actually something that I do plan to implement in my practice slowly within this year for the right kinds of patients. And the injectables are the ones that actually are the ones we would try to utilize rather than there are companies that have oral ones. The oral ones are not well...

Well, they don't work very well, essentially, because they're not as effective. They have to go through a lot of parts of the body to try to do anything. And actually, I did try the oral ones for patients years ago and trying to see if we could get better at the outcomes, but I didn't really see the difference with it.

Kaitlin Borncamp, CPA, NTP (17:09.23)

They're not as effective, right? Yeah.

Kaitlin Borncamp, CPA, NTP (17:22.53)

Yeah, that makes sense. mean, just for the listeners, it's like when we eat peptides all the time in the form of food, but the thing is, is that when you digest it, that it's a form of an amino acid, a chain of amino acids is what a peptide is. So has to get digested and broken down and then reabsorbed wherever it's needed versus the injectables via needle for peptides just directly into the bloodstream. And so they're going to go wherever the body's going to use it. So have you heard of any negative side effects or issues with peptides?

Fawad Mian (17:27.941)

Mm-hmm.

Fawad Mian (17:33.979)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Fawad Mian (17:42.289)

Fawad Mian (17:50.802)

Well, just through their circles or whatnot, a lot of times they'll talk about cycling things and stacking things. And it sounds a little generic to me because there are people who are on all these peptides, I'm talking to colleagues, but they're not getting much better or they feel more sick or more worse. It's because the person whoever is giving it or where are they getting it from, it's not really understanding the physiology of that person. And this is another thing I know also from doing some level of functional medicine or in our practice too as well is that

once you start throwing all sorts of things together, you don't know what's kind of doing what really at that point. And so with peptides, for the folks that are using or getting more success, they're starting more with maybe one or two and then adding other things and cycling things off. that's receptors don't get saturated. You don't have any other adverse effects to some of these things. So I think the jury is still out on it, but I think it's something that sounds promising to me. And I think...

Kaitlin Borncamp, CPA, NTP (18:39.726)

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Yeah.

Fawad Mian (18:47.555)

As long as we can research it more and study it more, think it would be more beneficial to folks as well as standardizing more of concentrations and treatments for people.

Kaitlin Borncamp, CPA, NTP (18:56.686)

So for the people that you currently treat in your practice who are coming to you for pain, what are some of the most common patterns that you see?

Fawad Mian (19:01.115)

Hmm? Hmm?

Fawad Mian (19:06.961)

in terms of what being seeing somebody about the pain or just injuries that we see.

Kaitlin Borncamp, CPA, NTP (19:14.678)

Either. mean, I'm just wondering, is there like a really common situation? is it mostly men that come to you, mostly women that come to you? What are they coming to you for?

Fawad Mian (19:22.673)

OK. Yeah, so well, like most medical practices, women tend to come in more. That's because they're more aware of everything and how their body feels and all of that. And whereas a male will let an arm fall off before they even decide they're going to come to the office. It doesn't work. to figure something out with that. And so that's common. commonly, women in their 50s and sometimes younger and also in their 60s

chronic knee pain, neck pain, back pain, shoulder pain are common things we see for men that come in that are like 50 plus, some younger and some older too as well. A lot of chronic low back pain that people have and then also knee pain. Those some of the most common things that we see on a routine basis.

Kaitlin Borncamp, CPA, NTP (20:07.79)

Mm-hmm. And I know part of your practice, you focus on helping people stay and remain independent throughout their golden years, if you will. I'd love to talk about this topic for a minute because I think it's one of the most under addressed conversations around why we want to be healthy. It's like when we think about nutrition, everybody thinks of a diet in order to lose weight, just to look good. Or when you think about maybe even fitness gets a little closer because

Fawad Mian (20:14.011)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Fawad Mian (20:26.459)

Mm-hmm.

Fawad Mian (20:31.707)

Mm-hmm.

Kaitlin Borncamp, CPA, NTP (20:36.76)

fitness is associated with getting stronger and more capable. But very seldom do we actually talk about the fact of like the real issues of when you get to your 60s, 70s, 80s, I mean, everybody just wants to bring to mind like a grandparent or an aging parent. And you'll think pretty quickly how much you're concerned about them tripping and breaking a hip, you know, and then landing in the hospital. And we now know that most people think it's over the age of 70 don't die from the actual fracture itself. If they have an injury, they die from the pneumonia that comes from being in the hospital for so long afterwards while they're healing. So it's

Fawad Mian (20:38.843)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Fawad Mian (20:45.71)

Mm-mm.

Yeah.

Fawad Mian (20:53.393)

Mm-hmm.

Fawad Mian (21:04.283)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Kaitlin Borncamp, CPA, NTP (21:05.646)

It's like a very real problem and I want more people to talk about it. So tell me more, you know, just how you incorporate that into your practice and why you feel like that's important to help people be more independent as they age.

Fawad Mian (21:08.913)

Hmm.

Fawad Mian (21:17.137)

So one of the things I emphasize to a lot of people, regardless of what a ratio they're coming in for, is actually to be as active as they possibly can be, unless sedentary. So what happens as we get older, we start losing more muscle mass. And it starts dropping off more precipitously as we're getting older too, as well. There's also less protein intake that's also happening too, as well. And so a lot of times, how many times I see these older men with the bigger bellies and super skinny arms, we call it skinny fat.

essentially. So lot of this are all fat and all of that. And these guys are just, they fall, they're breaking things. We can even see the same thing with women. They're becoming more cacactic. And so we do also that their mortality is simply much higher for some of the reasons that you mentioned too as well. But you also think about it physiologically, the muscle is also very biologically active too as well and metabolically too as well. And so it's really important to be able to maintain that. And so that's really important. So

When it comes to the wear and tear of joints, everybody's joints are going to have wear and tear as time goes along. It's inevitable. We image things all the time and we see the difference between a 30-year-old and a 60-year-old or whatnot. So if you're talking about also losing muscle mass and now you're having joints that are starting to become more unstable or whatnot, then you're ripe and you're at risk for having more chronic issues. so being able to be physically active is really important. Exercise, building muscle.

having a good diet, know, diets can be variable in terms of what can help someone versus the other. I don't really think there's one, at least as far as I can sort of not one perfect diet, some diets will work better than others with people. It's also about being consistent about, you know, what you're consuming and doing, even though it may sound boring or whatnot. I think that's also kind of important. And then the other thing also that often gets overlooked too as well is many people just aren't sleeping very well.

And when you're not sleeping well, your hormones are out of whack and physiologically you're going to be more of a mess. You're to have more insulin resistance. You're going have more chronic inflammation, more brain fog too as well ultimately. And so we want to make that as more of like a non-negotiable thing ultimately for people so they can get the adequate rest so their body actually can get better. And then ultimately we also want to make sure that they're getting the proper nutrients. Sometimes the supplements maybe we add to as well that may enhance.

Fawad Mian (23:36.931)

dampening down inflammation or helping with their immunity or antioxidants and things like that that would be able to help them. And so we can see like a difference between people who are really want to be proactive versus the people who don't want to be proactive is we had conversation earlier about, you know, people out in the Midwest and West tend to want to be more proactive about their health, but the Northeast, it's kind of hit and miss with some people. And so it sometimes involves a lot of coaching with them.

to get them in the right direction. say for instance, I can't exercise, I don't want to change this, I don't want to change that. could you maybe just start with getting workout pants and some shoes? And maybe you'll get them on and maybe that's the first step that you do. See if you can do that for a couple of days and then maybe the next day, maybe we go outside for a couple of minutes or five minutes. Maybe you can walk, maybe you have a recumbent bike that's not too expensive that you can get in your house.

something so that you could have some movement going and momentum going. No different than when we give supplements or do other treatments where we know it's going to take time. It's trying to give them some proof of concept with everything that these things are starting to move the needle little bit and that they're getting better. And so I'm trying to integrate all these little bits and pieces together with everybody and everybody's going to be different. just putting that all together, I think, gives somebody a better chance of living their best life, especially as they're getting older, versus just letting everything go and then

We see them in the hospital later on for things that we normally see.

Kaitlin Borncamp, CPA, NTP (25:02.624)

Yeah, things that could be avoided basically through more activity and pain-free moving, which is why I love your approach. It's so different than, you know, to contrast the original advice you guys like just cut off the bone, right? That's so different from the approach that you just described in your practice. So thank you. Thanks for breaking the tradition of old school mentality thinking in the medical community. We need more doctors like you. You had mentioned to also kind of getting into how sleep impacts things and

Fawad Mian (25:04.847)

Yeah.

Fawad Mian (25:24.303)

Yeah.

Kaitlin Borncamp, CPA, NTP (25:29.102)

The first thing that came to my mind is I know when I have a crappy night of sleep, I mean my brain function is just significantly lower and that's why I've personally realized how important sleep is for me. But I also want to segue into another topic, Dr. Mian, is that you have a memory course. So tell me about the memory course and a little bit about why you created it and who it's for.

Fawad Mian (25:35.067)

Mm-hmm.

Fawad Mian (25:39.195)

Mm-hmm.

Fawad Mian (25:50.386)

Yeah, you know, as the year goes on, also a neurologist too as well. And so I constantly see people about their memory. I had like a kid come in this week and this guy was like 26. Like, I can't remember anything. I'm like, okay. And so we see this all day long with people, from people who are working to stay at home moms, who are busy with all sorts of things to...

men and women who are working and trying to juggle family, kids, life, and different activities too as well. And they're all complaining, I can't remember things like I used to. I kind of have to write everything down. I can't remember names. And everybody inevitably when they come to me, no matter what age they are, if it's 20 something, 50, 60, 40, whatever, everybody thinks that they have Alzheimer's. And so while the Alzheimer's is definitely there as a cause of dementia or memory loss,

there are many other things that can affect them. You alluded to one. One is actually sleep is something that can affect your memory. And so if you're not sleeping very well, you can't consolidate information very well. And it becomes hard to remember things. Also think about it as something where now I call it like brain inertia. You just feel tired. Your brain feels sluggish. It's hard to think. It's hard to retain things. so unless it's something that is like super, super important where your focus is, if there are other things in the periphery,

You're not going to remember any of that. And that's kind of when the spouse is like, this guy doesn't remember anything. I said this five minutes ago and he's saying the same thing over and over and over again. And so the idea behind this course was to look at, what are the other causes of things that actually can affect memory? Sleep certainly is one. There can be other things like toxins, sometimes foods too as well, vascular risk factors, like blood pressure, cholesterol, diabetes, and so forth. There's a lot of different things that are out there that people simply don't know.

And so in that course, we actually dive into a lot of that. And I wanted to make sure that patients knew that there are all these things that are out there. There are different diagnostic tests that can be done. Ultimately, different things can be addressed so that they can actually improve their memory. And they can simply be a lot of their own patient advocate, just as like I did for my own aches and pains, and not be subjected to simply taking a memory pill that doesn't work that well.

Fawad Mian (28:11.191)

because I've been doling those out for well over 20 years now and they're very hit and miss. But there's some patients where we tweak their lifestyle, we look at things a little bit more in depth on the functional medicine side and get them on supplements. And I have this one guy who based on a PET scan has Alzheimer's, but yet he is driving a city bus and knows his routes. And visual spatially, they wouldn't be able to do that.

Kaitlin Borncamp, CPA, NTP (28:32.846)

mmm

Fawad Mian (28:36.653)

And so that's a huge difference. He had a bigger difference with that than me giving him some memory pills. That's just simply one example that's out there. But I think this course is something that definitely can help a lot of people overcome things and not feel like they're stricken with having a disease that's going to provoke more anxiety and actually make things worse for them.

Kaitlin Borncamp, CPA, NTP (28:57.152)

Yeah, well, and I know like in a professional standpoint, having poor memory makes the work a lot harder. You know, it's constantly feeling like you have to scramble to take notes or that, you know, you're in the important meeting and you might forget like what question you were going to ask five minutes ago, that sort of thing. So it has like real practical use cases, obviously, not to mention just a huge beneficial quality of life improvement. But one thing I wanted to ask you so around memory, my grandmother, I always remember that she used to take

Fawad Mian (29:03.173)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Fawad Mian (29:11.43)

Yeah.

Fawad Mian (29:19.291)

Hmm.

Kaitlin Borncamp, CPA, NTP (29:23.928)

ginkgo biloba for memory as a supplement. Is there any standing to that? Is that shown up in the research to your knowledge?

Fawad Mian (29:25.521)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Fawad Mian (29:31.259)

So it's not wrong. mean, you know, usually grandma is usually not wrong about things like chicken soup and ginkgo biloba, right? So, but the thing is actually ginkgo biloba actually was increases blood flow to the brain. Also it works on part of the, without getting too nerdy, part of the mitochondria, which is now a lot of what's out there in social media too as well. And so it actually does help. Not, she, she.

Kaitlin Borncamp, CPA, NTP (29:37.325)

Ha ha ha!

Kaitlin Borncamp, CPA, NTP (29:56.014)

Okay, so she was right. She got that one right. Yeah, you know what I loved is that when she passed, she still had all of her mental faculties about her. And I think that it was such a blessing to be able to see somebody age so well. She had a walking group that she would go walking in. She completed a half marathon when she was in her seventies. She placed first. Yeah, so that's great to hear. It's funny. So do you have any...

Fawad Mian (30:04.305)

Mm-hmm.

Fawad Mian (30:12.145)

Mm-hmm.

Fawad Mian (30:17.401)

wow.

Kaitlin Borncamp, CPA, NTP (30:23.31)

like a couple supplements that you'd be willing to share. I know maybe that's sometimes kind of hard because you want it to be specific advice, but are there certain nutrients that you really anchor in on for memory specifically that the listeners could take away from?

Fawad Mian (30:35.217)

Yeah, I mean, like I said, there's so many different things and I would just also preface this before anybody starts any supplements of any sort to always check with their doctor to make sure that it's appropriate for you and and whatnot. But I think things that are helpful in general for the average person, fish oil for one that has a high DHA content. I find that helpful. I have stuff that I take at home and as soon as I take it, I'll take it at the wrong time. Like if I take it in the evening, like, OK, I'm getting ready to go to bed and then I take it and I'm like,

Like all of a sudden my mind is like awake, literally like at that point, like it's just taking effect and all that. And I feel like everything is just working a lot better. So definitely one of the, definitely that. A lot of times I find that things that are naturally anti-inflammatories like curcumin or turmeric can be quite helpful too as well in terms of improving memory. And then supplements that actually can stimulate mitochondrial function. And there's many different ones. You mentioned CoQ10, there's other ones that stimulate.

other substrates within the cellular cycle. PQQ, to name example, is like another good one too as well. I find that those ones just in general can be very helpful for people. And I think the other thing I think is also helpful is supplements that sometimes can dampen down blood sugars. So things like berberine, for instance. Berberine has many different effects and whatnot, but it can also dampen blood sugar because it increases insulin resistance.

Kaitlin Borncamp, CPA, NTP (31:57.997)

Mm-hmm.

Fawad Mian (32:04.549)

will affect your cognitive function over time. So collectively, those would be like just some examples of what we would use that we think are effective. again, it really depends on the individual and what's really needed. And the answer may be different from person to person.

Kaitlin Borncamp, CPA, NTP (32:19.584)

Yeah, yeah, I think that's a pretty solid stack to recommend. And I'm glad that you brought up the blood sugar and the insulin resistance because that's something that I focus on with my programs and executives that I work with because I'm finding that a lot of people don't realize that they are insulin resistant until they get, you know, their doctor checks are A1C and they come back pre-diabetic and they're shocked. You know, I've had multiple people come to me and they're like, I run five days a week, Caitlin, but why is my doctor telling me I'm pre-diabetic and I eat quote unquote, I eat healthy, right?

Fawad Mian (32:22.245)

Mm-hmm.

Fawad Mian (32:28.848)

Mm-hmm.

Fawad Mian (32:34.299)

Mm-hmm.

Fawad Mian (32:39.461)

Hmm.

Fawad Mian (32:43.302)

Mm-hmm.

Fawad Mian (32:47.984)

Mm-hmm.

Kaitlin Borncamp, CPA, NTP (32:48.194)

And it turns out maybe their diet isn't that terrible, but they're highly stressed or something else that's playing like an underlying toxin load, like you said, that can accumulate over decades. And so I like to call blood sugar the canary in the coal mine because it's the easiest thing to get out of balance and for us to recognize. So really connecting it back, what I'm hearing is we also as humans, but also as busy professionals need to be mindful of if we do have insulin resistant or we're trending that way, that's going to have a negative impact on our memory and on our cognitive function.

Fawad Mian (32:52.027)

Mm-hmm.

Fawad Mian (33:05.233)

Hmm.

Fawad Mian (33:09.713)

Mm-hmm.

Fawad Mian (33:14.01)

Mm-hmm.

Kaitlin Borncamp, CPA, NTP (33:17.678)

which is obviously not ideal because again, that's going to add to your workload. It's going to make you feel more stressed, all those sorts of things. So for your memory course, I'm curious, you had mentioned you focus on toxins. Do you focus on mold and mycotoxins and have you found that being relevant for some of the people who came into you with like really bad memory?

Fawad Mian (33:26.299)

Mm-hmm.

Fawad Mian (33:39.76)

Yeah, so that's one of them. mean, there's a lab that's out there, I think a lot of functional medicine docs use or whatnot. And then that's the one that we see a lot. yeah, mold is actually something that often is something, it's something that gets neglected. And you'll find that in all sorts of places where areas where, hey, there's a pipe that's been leaking for years and it's dripping and there's mold on the wall, there's mold somewhere else and they just start feeling sick and it's...

even goes beyond just the memory. They're coming with headaches too as well, or they're weird neurological symptoms that don't seem to make sense and don't add up or whatnot. And so being able to get rid of that, remediating actually the mold too as well, which is really important, and then using different supplements to help get rid of it can be, you know, can really help. It's actually even something that I had at one point too as well, and I had to take things to like help overcome that because I had exposure to some

water and apartment that I lived in years ago. And that's what I had to do to help overcome that.

Kaitlin Borncamp, CPA, NTP (34:38.242)

Yeah. Yeah, I would say that the topic of mold was one of the things that I was most surprised by when I got in the functional health space and, you know, going to trainings talking about optimal metabolic health, optimal mitochondrial health. And so, of course, the same topics come up of like, what are some of the most common toxins? What are some of the issue toxins? You know what I mean? It's like, well, you might get some gasoline or whatever, you know, the

Fawad Mian (34:44.261)

Hmm. Hmm.

Fawad Mian (34:49.265)

Yeah.

Kaitlin Borncamp, CPA, NTP (35:01.336)

heart exhaust and that's a toxin we should breathe in. We all know that. But what if you're living in a house with mold? It's something you are not getting away from or in the case of, you know, stay at home mom, like you mentioned, she's probably home 23 hours a day. And so she's breathing in that air. so anyway, I'm glad that you addressed the mold and I don't wish mold remediation on anyone. And if you are somebody who suspects that you might be dealing with mold as a toxin.

Fawad Mian (35:02.865)

Yeah.

Fawad Mian (35:11.121)

Yeah.

Fawad Mian (35:18.873)

No.

Kaitlin Borncamp, CPA, NTP (35:23.342)

I encourage you to work with a mold-specific practitioner because you are going to need a specific protocol for a good four to eight months or if not more to fully detox, but it is possible. It is important and it is possible. Well, let me ask you this, Dr. Mian. For somebody who's working 10 plus hours at a desk and wants to be more pain-free, what are a few practical things that you might suggest that they incorporate?

Fawad Mian (35:26.289)

Yes.

Fawad Mian (35:47.537)

Well, first thing is don't stay at the desk for the entire 10 hours. You need to get up. So simple practical things, especially for somebody who is busy working schedule whatnot, and if it allows for. I think being able to get up at least more frequently, least every 30, 40 minutes or so, I think is helpful. One thing that I have in my office, and I invested in this a long time ago before it became a bit more fashionable is actually

Kaitlin Borncamp, CPA, NTP (35:51.593)

Ha ha.

Fawad Mian (36:16.729)

I do have one of those standing desks that goes up and down. And it's lasting now, I guess, over 10 years now. And I'm glad I made that investment. It's way more expensive now than was before. But that thing really helps because you can actually sit and stand up. Sometimes even in between things like doing things like squats or going out for walks and things like that to help stimulate mind, you feel physically a lot better. You're able to focus a lot better too as well.

You're helping out your blood sugars and the rest of your body a lot better too as well by doing that. And then I think the other thing that's also really important is having a proper ergonomic setup. So what I mean by that is often people on their laptop and they're kind of doing this and they got like a head on head and neck tension. They get chronic headaches. Some people get brain fog from those headaches. They come in to see me. So I kind of tell people, look, if you're going to have your laptop computer, you can always get like a wireless mouse, wireless keyboard, elevate your laptop.

Kaitlin Borncamp, CPA, NTP (36:59.32)

Yeah.

Fawad Mian (37:13.501)

So that at least you're more comfortable. the keyboard closer towards your lap so that it's more comfortable and you have less of those chronic aches and pains too as well. Standing desk will help with some of the chronic back aches you have because at least you're elongating your back too. And then adding in the exercise too as well will help with the range of motion. Those would be like the base level of things that I would do is particularly if they're really stuck at their desk the whole time.

Kaitlin Borncamp, CPA, NTP (37:37.292)

Yeah, I love those recommendations. I know that's why I can't go work at a coffee shop for too long because it's like that angle of my neck is so terrible. I feel it within five minutes. So yeah, really getting a desk that's set up for success and for your body to move is great. I mean, I've heard people push back. Like I'm sure some people listening are thinking like, but how, you know, like I, I'm at, I'm in back to back meetings for five hours a day. Like, how do I move? It's like, okay, you can still make it work. You can get a desktop standard and you know, kind of go up and down or

Fawad Mian (37:43.269)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Fawad Mian (37:59.249)

Yeah.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Kaitlin Borncamp, CPA, NTP (38:04.194)

You know, even being able to end the meeting five minutes before the end time is another common practice I saw in a couple of companies I would work for. But also, too, one of the big pushbacks I would get from executives that I work with is, you know, no time to drink water because I don't have time to go to the bathroom. And it's like, my goodness, we need to reframe that in the sense of you need to take a water break just to take a break from your computer screen and from sitting at your desk. You know, thank goodness you have to go get up and go to the bathroom once an hour kind of a thing. It's like so it all it all serves its purpose. But if we

Fawad Mian (38:07.729)

Hmm.

Hmm? Yeah.

Kaitlin Borncamp, CPA, NTP (38:33.848)

do the opposite, is assume that our body is essentially a robot. That doesn't leave us feeling very good and it definitely doesn't help us age and definitely doesn't keep us pain free. So thanks for pointing those things out. I also wanted to ask Dr. Mian, you wrote a recent book. So tell us about your book, Getting Pain Free. Who needs to read your book?

Fawad Mian (38:37.829)

Mm-hmm.

Fawad Mian (38:52.889)

anybody who's in pain and they've been suffering through it long enough and they don't want to go through drugs and surgery. So actually when I did write this actually was 2020 when I wrote it because hey, we had the time back then not much was going on. And so actually I had the time to write and that was the best time actually to write it. And it kind of chronicled a longer version of what I talked to you about with my own aches and pains and showing that there is a path to.

being able to get better without drugs and surgery. also goes into some basic dietary things, talks about mindset things like gratitude too as well. And so I use it in the office as a tool to show that, look, there is something else. It doesn't have to be your steroid, your surgery, your PT and traditional medical model. And so it's really targeted towards all those folks who really want that alternative. Because where I didn't have that option to really find out things and I had to search really hard, I wanted to make it easier for people to say, know what?

There are other options for me. There are a lot of resources out there, and this is simply just one of them that may get me to where I need to be ultimately with this.

Kaitlin Borncamp, CPA, NTP (39:55.906)

Yeah, that's great. Knowledge is definitely power in that sense and sounds like a very empowering book. So thank you for writing it and thank you for, again, the work that you do in the regenerative medicine side of things. I think it's so needed and I always love to hear of, you know, success stories in the sense of doctors kind of going out and doing what they truly believe in in a way that's actually helping people, again, kind of breaking out of the mold of the traditional medicine practice. So again, thanks for that and thanks for being on the show, Dr. Mian. As we wrap up, where can people connect with you?

Fawad Mian (39:58.353)

Hmm.

Fawad Mian (40:11.951)

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Fawad Mian (40:25.705)

People can find us on prolohealing.com. So we have more information about the services that we have and we talk about and we're located in New Jersey. So for those folks who do want to come out this way, we're out here in the Northeast. Better to visit when it's not winter time like it is right now and freezing. But we're out here so they can reach us over on that website, prolohealing.com.

Kaitlin Borncamp, CPA, NTP (40:50.19)

great, ProHealing.com, you guys. Well, thank you so much for being on the show. It's been a great guest episode. And for the listeners, if you have anybody in your life who you think might be in pain or that you know is in pain, please send them this episode because they can definitely get a ton of value out of it. All right, until next time, my friends, and thank you, Dr. Mian.

Fawad Mian (41:07.921)

All right, thanks so much. appreciate you having me on the show today. Bye.

Kaitlin Borncamp, CPA, NTP (41:10.862)

All right, bye.