burning bridges & breaking cycles: the truth about cutting toxic ties with Logan Cooper

cutting ties with toxic people? whew. not easy — but sometimes, absolutely necessary.

in this bold + honest episode of all our parts, i’m joined by logan cooper — aka @crookedcounselorcooper on tiktok — for a convo on what it really means to burn a bridge and choose yourself.

we talk about:

🔥 going no-contact with family (and why it’s not selfish)

🧠 how gender roles + social conditioning keep us stuck in unhealthy dynamics

💔 grieving the relationships you wish had been different

📲 the power of tiktok therapy + speaking your truth online

🌱 how the right connections make you feel safe, not small

this one’s for the cycle-breakers, boundary-setters, and anyone ready to stop apologizing for protecting their peace.

🎧 ready to let go + glow up? hit play.

connect with logan:

📲 TikTok

📸 Instagram

Transcript

 Hello, everybody. Welcome back to all our parts. I am so excited for my guest. You can find her on TikTok as the crooked counselor, Logan. Thank you so much for joining me today.  Thank you for having me, honey. It's nice to be here. Nice to have you. I'm just so excited for this conversation because we met.

On TikTok, we have just been engaging with each other's content since last year, and everything you post is just real, authentic, and just straight to the point. Thank you. Same to you.  And so when we were talking, thinking about, okay, what do we talk about?  Burning the bridge, burning that shit, not letting people spend the block on you.

And to 

Kick this conversation off, I was talking with somebody and they had mentioned, why spend the energy burning a bridge when you can just let it go? Sure.  Sure. 

So I think when I hear that question, I think for me, it can be answered twofold where, there is this biological design to stay connected to the pack, even if the pack is dysfunctional, because it's literally like in our DNA that if you stray from the pack, you die.

Like the original family design was not dysfunctional. Functional like this. It was much more basic, so this is something that's become complicated. Of course over Generations and generations of trauma like there's so many layers to it But I think like at a basic biological level There is that like threat to your survival where even if you can openly acknowledge like this bridge is bad Like it's never gotten me anywhere, like We both hear it in therapy.

They're like, I know, like they're referring to this part. They're like, I know 

I 

should, I know it's bad, but there is that like biological urge. That's built into the body saying, don't, you're not going to be okay. You're going to be alone.  So I think that's a part of it. And then I think there is a part of it.

That's not necessarily entirely pathological where it's like. One person's half, like one person's part of the bridge in the relationship can be genuine and pure. Like we, like I explained to clients, I'm like, there didn't have to be anything unhealthy about your love. I understand that when you entered this relationship, you were genuine, you deeply love this person.

And that complicates matters when it's time to even when you do see all the signs and it's time to go. It's hard. It's complicated.  

Yeah, and even I'm, as you say that I'm thinking about some of the messages that were taught in childhood be friends with everybody, say hello to everybody, make sure you're putting out the pleasantries.

Everyone gets invited to the birthday party. There is this idea that every single person that we encounter It won't add value to our life. Absolutely. 

I also think that like a stark gender difference is that little girls are conditioned to care about other people more first before they're conditioned to care about themselves.

And boys are just given a pass. Cause they're just boys. 

Yeah, boys will be boys. 

That's just all they're being.  

Boys don't have to worry about caretaking. They don't need to worry about like cleaning up. Boys are always the one asked, Can you move that chair? Can you move that desk? Girls are asked, Can you wipe the desk off?

Like we are conditioned so early on to, to fall into these very specific roles. Yes. And then we grow up and we do not know how to fucking let shit go. 

Yes, honey because it becomes a part of your identity. Because you become so wired to seek that external validation. That, that you're like, when I ask clients, I'm like, can you turn the lens inward?

Can you ask yourself that question before you ask me? Have you even given yourself a chance to answer this question yet? They're like, no, doesn't that make me selfish? And I'm like, oh God, there it is. There it is. To be self aware is selfish.  To burn a bridge is selfish. You're heartless. You're cold.

How could you?  

And we even, like, when we think about the role that women have played, They're always meant to keep the family together. 

Absolutely.  

Women are meant to always hold everything intact. So the idea of burning a bridge, it's like you're cutting your foot off. Essentially, you are cutting off a limb.

You are not going to be able to stand and you have ruined your entire life because of this one bridge that you have burned. 

Exactly. Or that messaging of like you blew up the family because it was your job to hold it all together. Even if other people were actively destroying it while you were trying to hold it together, you blew up the family by walking away.

None of that damage was already there. It was you. 

You didn't do your part right now. We're all falling apart. Thanks so much, 

right? You're gonna do this to your children. You're gonna do this shit like it's yeah, there's so many layers, honey  

When did you make peace with the idea that like burning bridges was okay?

Or how did you come to the idea that you know what like not every bridge is mine to keep So 

 the pinnacle bridge for me was I did decide about two years ago to go no contact with my father and my aunt who are my last surviving biological family members. And there's a long backstory there. But essentially what I, the realization that I came to was that those relationships had become, those bridges had become so dangerous and destructive to my quality of person that maintaining those relationships was starting to see Seep in and damage my other relationships like I the way that I put it on my tick tock is that I couldn't be The parent that I wanted to be for my children while still being the child that my parent needed me to be 

say more on that 

I Could not because like you mentioned a few sentences ago those roles that were born into There's a very specific set of rules and I know you get me on this like it's who follows Specific rules given to you by the person who put you in that role. That is your job. That is your duty.

You're a soldier. That doesn't leave a lot of room for evolution and growth and healing. It's very like you're in a box that you essentially you're an object so when I Made the transition from just being somebody's daughter to then being somebody's wife and mother For me in order to be healthy versions of that it was no longer just about me So that means that no matter how I learn to function well in these other relationships I could see at this point, there was no way for me to avoid that particular set of rules and roles was literally going to be the death of a healthy marriage.

And it was going to ruin my relationships with my own children because there wasn't room for me. There wasn't room for me to figure anything out. You're just under somebody else's thumb.  It bleeds over. 

 You just worded something that, from personal experience I get it, but you just put two words.

 You cannot evolve into one thing if you are still playing out  your very childhood role that has shrunken you, minimized you. Put you in a very specific place. That person cannot evolve if they're one foot in one foot out trying to teeter totter. 

Exactly. And here's the thing that I hope so many people come to understand if they haven't already, is that the difference between one of the differences between a healthy relationship and an unhealthy relationship is the unhealthy relationship will require you to lose or never discover a relationship with yourself.

In a healthy relationship, evolution is a good thing, growth is a good thing, there's fluid there's, the nature to evolve, marriage and parenthood are both ups and downs and compromise and all of those healthy relationship behaviors. A healthy bridge is not going to be threatened by the existence of another off ramp.

It has nothing to do with them. An unhealthy bridge is no, this is the only way. It's the best way. And if you try to go another way, you'll perish. 

That is something that I experienced. So I am no contact with just about my entire family. And  I was only showing up for holidays. That felt like my obligation. And so I would come home with my partner, with my friends. And I have this very different full life. And then when I'd sneak in on Thanksgiving or Christmas, I find myself just shrinking, getting smaller and smaller in the room.

I'm not talking. And so then.  I was like, fuck this. Like  I am, cause then I'm going back into the authentic space and I'm  processing the shit that I just put myself through  because I put, and I'm like, okay, if I am putting myself in this position,  this isn't going to serve me if I'm trying to evolve over here and then I'm taking 30 steps backward, going back to the space that has shrunken me to begin with. 

Spaces and roles that I tell clients feel painfully familiar.  Where you're always like, I've been here before, like it's either it's like squeezing into a pair of jeans that doesn't quite fit. And then the more healing you do, you're like, oh, these really don't fit. And then you get to a point where you're like, no, actually they're cutting off my circulation.

Like I'm going to, I, it's it's literally like the relational equivalent of being exposed to a toxic gas. And then when you get home to your safe space, you're like,  

yeah, like you 

let out this giant exhale. And it's you've literally been holding your breath because like you said, you have to shrink down.

You have to lose yourself so you can fit in when you're missing the whole point of you should be in relationships where you belong, not fit in.  

And then prime example my birthday just passed. And so my aunt used that opportunity to wish me a happy birthday, to remind me that My profession is to make people feel better and I should feel bad about not seeing my grandmother who Wanted to pray me out of my relationship.

No  And  that she loves me and just doesn't understand the lifestyle I said you haven't called me in two years Good for 

you, 

honey.  So if you wanted to talk to me so bad instead of trying to manipulate me on my birthday. We could just call. But you have also proven my point as to why I do not speak to you all and I left it at, I have moved on from this.

Good for you. I would like everyone to move on from this. And I was so  Like, proud because there is a past version of me that would have gone back and forth with her. Of course. Of course, da, and I'm like, I literally have moved on and I'm not about to entertain this conversation. I haven't seen you for two years.

Good for you. And this is how you want to say happy birthday to me? 

Also, absolutely not on telling you that you should feel anything because that's another red flag that you're in an unhealthy relationship. Somebody telling you how you should and shouldn't feel. Somebody telling you how you should and shouldn't live.

That's insane to me. It's the audacity and the ignorance. Are insane to me, things that I could never imagine saying to my child. Things that I would never say to somebody that I genuinely cared about because I would never want to scare them or shame them into having a relationship with me. 

Yeah.  And I said in my job as a therapist, it's actually to help people identify love, not just the word, but the actions and the feelings behind it. 

Absolutely. Absolutely. And you're in our jobs are not to just help people feel happy. Our jobs are to help people understand that they get to feel however they feel for as long as they need to feel it.

And sure, there may be behaviors that we need to address because your feelings are valid, but your behaviors could need adjusting. That's been true for all of us, but I will never, and I rarely use never, I will never tell someone, you don't have a right to feel the way you do this. It's your job to make people feel this.

And if you're not as a therapist and you get it too, on Tik TOK and social media, the flack we catch because aren't you a therapist? Doesn't that mean you should just have unconditional love and acceptance for everyone and everything. No, that's not what that means.  

That's literally why we got into this profession.

Period. God.  But that goes perfectly  into this current political climate. Mm shake hands with the person on the other side of the aisle. No, 

no, thank you. No, thank you. I, yeah, obviously there's so much to be said,  but I, on the topic of relationships and burning bridges and then connecting it to the politics obviously we're seeing so many people create content about right now.

Like I voted for this administration and I lost my family, but this person come off and I just can't believe they would do this to me, like over politics and we've already discussed this, but you said at best, it's really not about politics. It's about values and you are never obligated regardless of blood relation or any other connection to maintain connection to like people who threaten your livelihood to people who don't see you as people. 

It's and it's, I was talking to somebody and a friend of mine and she was like my family thinks is calling me passionate. I'm like, this is beyond like passion, right?  Human, like just to respect, literally respect your neighbor, right?  And  you like, if you feel so comfortable voting for somebody  that's doing  exactly what they said they were going to do.

And I want to reiterate for everyone who's Oh, I didn't think he'd do it. I didn't think. He's doing exactly what he said he was going to do. He's doing exactly what the people who funded him to run again are going 

Absolutely. Was going to do. Yeah.  I don't buy it. No. It's, yeah. And that's the thing is, and I hear actually overheard a conversation like this yesterday when I was out having lunch.

I keep hearing people who voted for Trump diminish. Entire races of people and very real safety issues and very real identity issues down to, oh, that D. E. I. thing, that whole transgender thing. And then these are the same people who, when the coin flips, want you to access your compassion and your understanding for them while they're also objectifying  you.

And it blows. My mind, how you think you can take entire groups of people, how you can take the entire history of this country, which could be a whole separate episode, obviously, like you're taking entire identities of human beings, you're reducing them down to what you think of as these little frivolous Things that you can't understand why people are getting so upset about you are literally objectifying people and dehumanizing them.

And then you have the audacity to act entitled to their core human qualities of compassion and empathy. Can I cuss on this podcast? Fuck you for that.  Heavy on the fuck you for that.

 Yeah. It's 

disgusting. I'm disgusted. 

 Your tears,  I do not have energy for them. Red and White Brigade. Please. This is not the space for you. You made your bed. Absolutely. Why in it?  So my choice to not want to spend time with you not want to educate you even  I have that right Just like you lose your right to vote for a bigot Absolutely.

Absolutely, and I think one thing that really gets To some of the people that I've experienced is they can try to strip you of so many of your rights in like your, your independent qualities as a person, but they can't change that. You have emotionally removed yourself from them. And boy does that make them tantrum like a bunch of bigoted babies.

Like you don't have that control. 

 You don't have that control.  And that's so interesting because so many of them will say, I voted based on logic. 

I 

voted based on  economy, like these very practical, tangible things, but they get so upset when our emotion, when we have decided to rescind any emotional energy, the relationship.

Absolutely. And here's the thing is they can't even see that they are already being given more civil treatment than they deserve. I already, it takes an enormous amount of emotional gumption for me to coexist in public with people that have made it very clear that's what they align with.

I keep my eyes ahead. I keep my mouth shut, not for their benefit because I've got children to raise and a job to do and I'm not going to do it from prison. So I am being civil. I am already spending the amount of emotional energy that I am willing to expend on these interactions and it has nothing to do with you.

It's to keep myself safe and the fact that I can coexist. In an adult, immature way, despite emotional dysregulation that's triggered every day because the world is burning, they don't understand that because they don't possess it.

 Facts. Facts. And they,  and the fact that we're not,  we're losing our energy, but we're getting it back. The fact that we are not knocked down, that we are not giving up this fight.  I know they expected us to be bogged, to be okay, whatever, we'll do what you say. We're not going to give you the same energy.

Actually we're going to spend the next four years giving you exactly what you deserve. 

Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. And then 10 years 

after that for reparations because he fucked us over.  Yeah. No, we can't. Oh, I can't 

even 

imagine. 

Yeah. I'm like taking enough to get through today. But yeah, I think what comes back to bite oppressors.

Every single time, like it's like they're shooting themselves in the foot by cutting out entire chapters of history. It's insane, which again could be another, episode, but like the thing that they seem to miss is that nobody is more resilient. Nobody is more resourceful than a trauma survivor.

Nobody is more like resourceful, determined, gritty, like creative. It's these natural resources that are cultivated when you survive these generations of trauma. But You can't buy that in the store. You can't you're not going to learn that in a book. That is forged in the fire. And that is why, honey, despite, like, all of these attempts throughout history to eradicate entire groups of people, you've never fucking succeeded.

Your track record is fucking stupid. It's Okay, and I'm not saying there's not going to be a huge mess made in the attempts, obviously, and that is very sad, but ultimately, your goal of having this be just an open and close, closing the case on entire groups of people because you think they're the problem, you're not going to succeed.

Nobody ever has.  

And I love that you bring up the resilience piece and that literally ties right back into our point that like to burn a bridge,  you trust that you have the resilience that the bridges that are meant for you, the relationships that are meant for you will be there and those will be your connecting pieces.

Absolutely. And the. The scariest but also best thing about that is that it has nothing to do with anyone but you and that can be incredibly isolating and it can also be incredibly empowering. It depends on what, I feel like it depends on what stage of healing you're in. 

When you realize that ultimately the human condition is that we are born alone in our bodies and ultimately we die alone in our bodies. And that the beauty of that is that the healthier relationship you have with yourself, the more that you trust, no matter what's going on outside of you, you have got you, you are never alone because you are safe within yourself.

You are your own home. The more that you trust that. I really believe that the universe rewards you for it. I think that being vulnerable, especially after experiencing any type of trauma or abusive relationship, I think that's the bravest thing that anyone can do. I think it's the heart of the human existence. 

When you are able to return to yourself to trust yourself that you have got you The world in the same way that it will shed the things that do not serve you It will also gift you the things that are meant for you and because you are so sure of yourself You will be able to receive it and reciprocate it.

Absolutely. Absolutely. I tell clients all the time that your greatest source of shame can actually be your greatest superpower, but you have to heal it. 

Yeah.  This is giving me so much to think about. We can 

do other parts, honey. I'm happy to circle 

back 

and 

keep at it. I know, this is like just the beginning, but it's just returning like back to yourself, like the ongoing process, when you allow yourself to evolve, to shift, to grow. And when you feel certain in that ensure of yourself, the universe rewards you with the life that is meant for you, the life that you can hold, but in order for you to be able to hold it, you have to let that baggage, let that shit. 

When was that journey for you? Like, when did you get on that path and what motivated you to do it?  

Honestly, when I was becoming a therapist, because I'm Carrie, I'm holding space for other people and I'm saying these things and realizing I am not living it out and I'm realizing I'm showing up to session so heavy and feeling like I'm carrying center blocks and I'm like.

 I am reminding people every day of their worth that they get to create the life that they want. And then I'm here just going autopilot in my life.  And I had to start paying attention to patterns. And even as I started posting on socials more often, I was like,  I can't say this and then be living out something completely different and I need to wake up and realize some of these relationships might be here for the wrong reasons. 

Once I allowed that congruence and that grief, that loss, the joy, the uncertainty, once I let it all out. All in. I was like, okay,  as long as I am feeling certain in shore, if I am leading with love, if I'm leading with compassion and making choices that are not harming others,  I get to let that go. And I let, I get to welcome what is meant for me.

And it gets to feel ease at some point as someone who has felt like they have always had to be strong, resilient, independent,  the hardest thing that I've had. To learn is how to let ease into my life.  Tell me more about that. Oh, table turn. So many, so many of us who grow up who learned to, to hold on to our relationships who learned that we have to fix everything, that we have to be everything for everyone, that we have to always figure it out. 

I realized, oh,  I don't have to figure it out and that's okay. I do not need to be superwoman for everyone. I do not need to have the cape on.  I actually get to let this bridge go and I will still be okay and still move forward. Yes. That takes a hell of a lot of self trust.  A lot of  hope that things will continue to go and in a positive trajectory, I realized  the war that I was creating and myself was becoming far greater than it.

Then trying to please other people. 

Yes. Yes, honey. I think the word that I always associate that process with is grit. You have to be gritty. And it is a, like people talk about healing, like it's this fluffy little animal, Oh, I'm healing. I healed Zen. Oh, Lulu lemon. And it's no healing is actually really gruesome at times like healing will, like you said, require you to look in a mirror.

It sounds like that was what becoming a therapist was starting to do for you where you were like, Oh, here's what I'm putting out. But at the end of the day, I'm looking at myself and which is brave enough to look at yourself. Like obviously the world could benefit from a dose of that, but like you have to be gritty to look at yourself.

to look at all of yourself and to recognize not only the dysfunctional systems that you're in which are real and can be largely out of our control initially because we're born into them but also the role you're playing and like oftentimes and I hate this part but like it comes from recognizing qualities of your oppressor or your traumatizer like whoever that was like Feel like they're infiltrating you and you can hear yourself like talking like them, or you can see yourself acting like them and you're like 

 oh,  I don't wanna do that.

I don't wanna be 

hi, I don't wanna be hypocrite. I don't wanna be abusive. I don't wanna be manipulative okay, how can I not be that? And then you have to like override. Yeah, like override, like so many learned systems.  

And the dysfunctional relationships, they're not just the external ones, but it's the dysfunctional relationship that you've also created with yourself, re instilling those narratives that I can't do hard things, that I'm not worthy, that I can't commit to this, that it's not, it's probably not going to work out anyway.

I had a very strong Self fulfilling prophecy. And I have a very strong self sabotage protector that will light a match faster than anybody.  I have kerosene in my backpack. Yeah. So it happened so quickly. I get it. I realized I didn't know how to receive ease in my life. I didn't know that. Okay, like my life gets to be calm, like things, like I get to be in healthy relationships.

Like things get to feel this way and I would  light a match and then eventually I would light the match and I'm like But I don't want to like, I don't I'm done. I'm done rebuilding. I'm tired of this pattern.  

I had a session that I'll never forget with a therapist who I was because I'm really good with hurting people with my words.

Like it just rolls off the tongue like butter. And I don't want to lose that quality entirely in myself because sometimes it really comes in handy and I'm proud of it. Like quite frankly, I earned my stripes. But my therapist at the time. was like, when you talk about hurting people's feelings, like when you talk about these examples you're giving me, it almost sounds like you're proud of it.

And I had never had somebody just call me out on the fact that this isn't necessarily what you should be leading with, right? Like it's more of a weapon you access when you need it, but it can't be your standard mode of operation. Like I was literally bringing a bazooka to every water balloon fight.

I was also calling things, fights that weren't even fights because I had such a dysregulated nervous system that like, like you're saying, ease, what's that? What do you mean we can have conflict? 



And nobody has to be the bad guy. It doesn't have to be a competition. You can actually connect through conflict?

What?

 It was wild. That was wild to me to learn that. 

 What's your sign? Sagittarius. 

 Oh, 

thank you.  

The 

O. G.  Yeah. What's yours? 

 Oh, Aquarius Oh, yes.  The silent one, I'm just like, try me.  Let me know if you ever want to do a duo. 

Like  we could play really well together. I think so. I think. This is like a 

duo right here that.

Lethal,  I'm saying, 

 but we've learned enough skills we've learned no but truly, like relationships that require you to continue to operate in those ways. You do have to essentially give yourself permission. You have to give yourself permission to realize that you're not a role, like you're a human being.

Your role can change. You can change. For me, what you're talking about was my struggle was I felt because I come from an Italian Catholic background. So like loyalty is really big. Like we can't ignore the cultural implications, right? There is an and again, the original human design.

I understand where that came from, like loyalty and survival, but toxic loyalty is a huge reason why people don't burn bridges because they are going down with the ship no matter what. And that's exactly what happening in this country right now, by the way, there will be people that will gladly go down with the ship Trump at the helm every step of the way. 

I beg you a do. That is your journey, but it is not mine. You do not have to go down with the ship, and you are not abandoning a relationship if that relationship already required you to abandon yourself to stay in it. No. Find a life raft. Find a life raft and don't go poking holes in it by like you already identified self-sabotaging.  



It's no, I want to live, but it's Oh, it's hard.  I'll roll myself. I'll swim. 

Aquarius is good. Swim. Okay.  Hey, 

water bear.  Logan. This literally was so fun. And this will not be the last time. I love it. Two of us. Where can people find you if they are interested and Checking your stuff out, interested in working with you. 

So I'm predominantly on TikTok. I do post some on Instagram, but TikTok is the main source of being able to interact with me.

And I do individual therapy which obviously is my private practice. But yeah, people can find me on TikTok anytime. I'm really enjoying the community that we've built. I think it's been such a, obviously TikTok has been a lot of things, but I do think in large part it has been a huge blessing for people to learn how to find and connect with their people, like how to find that village that you need, how to find healthy bridges to learn how to build them.

I think it's, I think it's been complicated, but I think it's been a blessing.  

And my question to all of my guests this year is what is your commitment to yourself for 2025?  

So my, I try to come up with a key word and my key word for actually the last couple of years has been soften. That's what I say to myself when I can feel my body getting hijacked, especially with my kids.

Like when I'm getting triggered by their behaviors is my. My mission is to soften. My mission is to continue to practice being compassionate and open minded and kind as much as is important to me as a person. But I would like to point out to people that does not make you 

weak. 

And there is a world of difference between being kind and being nice.

Because I'm not here to perform for anyone. I'm actually not very nice. I'm a kind person.  

Boom.  

What about yours? 

I forgot. Oh,  I hate when that happens.

 My commitment to myself is, it goes back to ease  is allowing.  My word for the year was expansive and I think part of being expansive is also allowing things to shift, allowing things to ebb and flow as they must. 

And trusting yourself. You will ride the wave. You always have. 

 Yes. No, I love that.

I love I suggest that to anyone who hears this, found, find your word, find the word that resonates with you. Find the word that when you hold onto it, like you can feel yourself in these moments and allow, soften, surrender is a huge one that I use with clients like surrender, honey. Like it's scary, but oftentimes we are making the fight worse for ourselves than we would if we just surrender. 

Thank you so much for joining me this 

year. You're welcome. Thank you for having me. Of 

course.