breaking the stigma: borderline personality disorder, healing, and real connection with Samantha Barney

in this raw and eye-opening episode of all our parts, jazzmyn welcomes samantha — better known as your irreverent therapist — to unpack the misconceptions and stigma surrounding borderline personality disorder (BPD).

samantha shares her powerful journey from the corporate world to the therapy room, specializing in dialectical behavior therapy (DBT) and working closely with clients navigating BPD and attachment-based trauma.

we dive into:
 ✨ why BPD is one of the most misunderstood diagnoses in mental health
 ✨ how attachment wounds show up in the therapy room
 ✨ the critical role of validation, consistency, and safety in healing
 ✨ what makes the therapeutic relationship one of the most powerful tools for transformation

this episode is a call to move beyond labels, lead with compassion, and create spaces where healing is not just possible — it’s inevitable.
 whether you're a clinician, a client, or someone passionate about mental health, this conversation will shift the way you think about BPD, therapy, and emotional resilience.

tap in for a real, nuanced, and much-needed conversation about healing attachment wounds and reclaiming your story.

Transcript

 Hello everybody. Welcome back to all our parts. I am so excited for my guest today. I am so lucky to call her a friend. You have seen her content. On Instagram on TikTok, she is finishing out her graduate program and currently starting her own business. Samantha, AKA, your irreverent therapist. Thank you for joining me.

Oh my God, you are way too kind and I'm so excited to be here with you, man. You just inspire me daily. I remember one of the first videos I saw of you and I was like, oh, I need to, 

I wanna be friends. It was like, we were like, oh yeah, hey let's be friends. Let's chat. And so I'm so happy to have you across from me right now and recording with me.

Oh, you're so kind. I'm so happy to be here with you. So we are gonna jump right into it and we're gonna talk about a topic that is not talked about enough, or isn't talked about in the way that we are going to discuss it. And that is working with. The borderline population or people who have been diagnosed with borderline personality disorder.

I had posted on my story a blurb about how valuable and how fulfilling it can be to work with this population. And Sam responded and I was like, yes, we've got to talk about it, because sadly, this population still experiences so much stigma. 

Yeah. 

There are still not enough of us who are talking about it from an attachment based trauma and more so discussing it from, almost like an early fian times where hysteria is a valid diagnosis.

Yeah, that's spot on. I actually love that you tied it to that. Just this complete like lack of control around. Everything. Hysteria. 

Yeah. 

Why did that post speak to you? 

Yeah, so I started this therapy journey deciding to go back to school roughly.

Two and a half years ago, I left the corporate world and I was like, man, I gotta go follow this passion of mine that's burning up. And in doing that, I was really fortunate. I have a friend who owns her own practice and it is a dialectical behavior therapy focused practice. And so I reached out to her and was just trying to understand what this all might look like.

And she was like, Hey, why don't you come and. Sit in on some skills groups. 



And if you know about dialectical behavior therapy, that's a component of it. So you'll see an individual therapist, and then there's also this comprehensive model where you attend a skills group every week. So I sat in on that and started leading sessions there and leading those skills groups and started working with this community, with this population. Which DBT is widely used as like the modality for border borderline clients. I'll tell you what I knew nothing, right? I just knew nothing.

I was showing up meeting humans. I had no knowledge of this diagnosis. I don't know if I even to be, if I'm fully transparent, I don't know if I knew the difference between bipolar and borderline, what it looked like. Like I was just coming in fresh eyes. 

Again, I came in with this fresh perspective, not knowing anything, and slowly started having people feed me like, oh, you're working with BPD. Oh, you're at a DBT clinic. What is that? I don't and I saw that stigma really starting to take shape. So I grabbed onto that and I'm curious tell me why you posted it, what came up for you in that.

Yeah, so I am just so passionate about attachment and as I've learned about attachment and have been just uncovering like the diagnosis of borderline and what it entails and how it manifests and why it manifest I realize there is so much because I believe there is so much power in the therapeutic relationship.

Imagine what a consistent, reliable person could do for somebody who is diagnosed with BPD. 

Oh. 

And so I wanted to post that because it is so stigmatizing and if it's something that I believe to be true, then it is up to me to be. Vocal about it and to share that as someone who does want to de-stigmatize it, who does work with populations where they've been diagnosed with borderline and it's could very possibly oftentimes is C-P-T-S-D or I love that you brought up bipolar, because bipolar one and borderline are they're like so intermingled and we have.

Saturated it, I think so much and think, oh, someone can't hold a relationship down BPD it's like it's so much more complicated than that. 

It's interesting too. Women are often misdiagnosed with BPD and overdiagnosed with BPD. That like high emotionality, oh, female, here you go, right?

What is DBT? You brought up the skills-based aspect for the listeners who might not know what DBT is. 

Yeah. Beautiful. DBT was created by Marshall Lenahan, whom later, you know after doing this like beautiful work and creating this whole modality. Identified herself as having BPD, and so worked at it in a roundabout way came back to it.

But DBT is essentially a therapy modality or therapeutic modality where you're really learning skills to. Regulate your emotions, skills in interpersonal effectiveness and skills in distress tolerance. It can be extremely helpful for clients with BPD. Like you said, often clients who have BPD have a lot of strain in their relationships.

So that interpersonal effectiveness piece comes in and then stress tolerance. A lot of clients with BPD engage in things like self-harm, a lot of suicidality, right? So just how do we even begin to approach that, and then the whole thing. That's the basis of it all. Hey, how do we practice just awareness around ourselves, our bodies, our own experiences? 



So DBT is that right? It's heavily skills based and often, like I said, it can often, have this comprehensive aspect where you're seeing a therapeutic, a therapist in an individual relationship, and you're also going to the skills group every week.

And talk about like consistency, right? So you have this consistent therapist and this group of people who are identifying with you, who you know are learning these skills with you. They're in it together and they're such a community. Again, like circling back, I came into these skills groups just not really knowing much.

But seeing the power of what was happening within that group. So that's my on DBT, 

Beautifully done. Amazing. Even like name dropped, the founder, which I'm like, I'm so impressed. I have to look that up 

in it. I work in it a lot. 

Yeah. And going back even to how women are like predominantly diagnosed, over diagnosed with this specific diagnose, patriarchy, right?

Misogyny, like all the things. It's what a cop out to be able to look at a woman and say, to minimize a woman and say, oh no, that's too much. We can just slap a diagnosis on that. And a lot of people truly do not spend enough time with individuals to diagnose them with it, is what I've seen because I know a lot of people who get diagnosed with it in the hospital.

Yeah. You go into 

hospitals, you're there for 48 hours. I can't imagine the psychiatrist sat with them long enough to even remember their last name and now they have this like huge diagnosis that goes on their insurance. It follows them everywhere. And I think that is also where it tugs for me because it is so stigmatizing.

And so when we very lax Daly. Diagnose someone with it, it follows them and it actually impacts the kind of treatment they may be able to receive. It can potentially impact jobs, they can receive it. It is a lifelong sentence. To carry that.

When someone is given that, I think we also, when we are diagnosing people with it, we need to be really thoughtful about what the ramifications are for that person or what they might be if that is placed on their chart. 

Yeah. I think you're so spot on there and so insightful of you to.

Note that in hospitals we have to assign some code, some diagnosis in order to receive treatment. That BPD one is, it comes with a heavy price and that price is the stigmatism that's attached to it. And it's so harmful for these clients.

And I think that, often these clients feel it, right? If I get diagnosed with something, I'm probably gonna go home and I'm gonna look it up and I'm gonna research it. 

100%. 

Yeah. When you look this up. It can feel really scary because there is a lot of stigma that exists around it.

And I'm, let's, can we name some of the stigma, I guess I feel like I keep saying that word but talk 

goodness. Manipulative, yes. Overreacting. 

Attention seeking. 

People love to use the word splitting, but do not know.  

New 

flash, people can be disappointed with you. They don't have to be splitting that.



Sure. Triangulation, black, white being like, all of these things kind. Lying. I don't, maybe you said that. All these like stigmas, come up and the wild thing is that it can feel like this lifelong sentence and it's not. 



It's something that. Is treatable. It's something that you can work with.

It truly is. And so that's the, that's like the really tough part is people sit in this for years. 

One of the things I've learned with working with this population is that a lot of the times it has forced me to look at the work within myself. And if they are escalated, if they are having an emotion, like it's also challenging my own distress tolerance because distress tolerance isn't, if something happens and it's disappointing you don't react.

You are able to now sit with that disappointment. And so sitting with someone who might have a heightened emotion that challenges us as therapists. 'cause we are supposed to be the grounding force. We are supposed to be the one they are able to co-regulate with. And so when we. When we feel that dysregulation and we take it, and it can be a lot, but it's so powerful when we can allow ourselves to see that transference and be able to work with it.

Oh my God, I'm so happy you said that. I love that. I told you in that message exchange I said, I love working with BPD. I really do. I love it. You said it too, right? 

Yeah, 

I think I will, again, I'll be transparent here. I think part of it is selfish. So I'll give you a little experience.

I walk in like bright-eyed, bushy-tailed into the skills group. I'm just like, oh God, I am so happy to be here. I wanna, learn this stuff. In a DBT skills group, you're usually gonna have two leads. You're gonna have the facilitator of the group and the co-facilitator. At the time I was acting as co-facilitator and really like that person is meant to validate and also support clients when dysregulation comes up.

'cause it's definitely gonna come up in group. The facilitator is meant to challenge a bit more to push clients. Hey, what's going on? Why didn't you do your homework? What got in the way? Anyway, so I'm sitting here in this co-facilitator chair and this girl brings up this thing about mindfulness and how stupid it is and I validate that.

'cause first of all, I feel that a hundred percent right? And I'm like, Ugh, I hate this. And it's also like the thing that works. But she lost it on me. 

She just 

absolutely un unloaded on me, and she felt really invalidated by my validation. And that moment for me was it was so painful and beautiful because I really did have to face my own stuff around high emotionality 



Regulation and how unsafe that potentially made me feel in my body and my experience. And. I think in a lot of ways, like again, I feel so fortunate to work with these clients because I've had the opportunity to address a lot of stuff within me.

I don't know when it would've come out. It would have. And again, the beauty about this diagnosis and these clients is. You can work with this with them on this. As that dysregulation flares up in you, when you show the humanness in that and tell them what's going on, they receive it.

Yeah. 

I don't know. It's beautiful. I'm thankful because I've been able to address a lot within my own self too. 

It has reinforced and reminded me the value of building trust in the therapeutic process. And when you were sharing your story, it was like how comfortable the person must have felt to be able to express themselves in that way and to still be accepted because that's a lot of times.

They present and then someone goes, oh, you're too much. 

Yeah, 

but how like corrective it gets to be when they express themselves in the best way they know how and that it's not this, they're not like, no one is choosing, like no one would choose that level of angst. Like it's what they learned.

Would help them get out of unsafe situations. They did not learn the skills that they needed and so to be able to express that and say, you're still accepted, like we're good. We're cool. I'll see you tomorrow. That yes, to be able to offer that is just fulfilling and it's some, it's something that encourages me to continue doing the work on myself.

Especially as a relational therapist, when I think about showing up, when I think about being able to build trust is so important because therapy is hard. 

You are the most vulnerable, right? Yeah. It's hard. It's hard work. Trust is hugely important. I love, yeah. I love that you said that, that opportunity to repair and I, again, like that's the beauty of sitting in the room with a client is you have this relationship between you and it's it truly is this extension of compassion and grace 

I wanna understand you. I feel curious about you. I feel open to you. I wanna see you and hear you. 

Yeah. 

There are going to be times of dysregulation, there are going to be ruptures, and we are able to come back from that. And like you said, what a what? What beauty that client, not only like in that moment with me, but also to be.

Embraced back by the group. Oh, ah, the group, Jesse. I had no idea. Like the power of the group. 



Oh, that's, it's such a beautiful thing to witness as these clients really, there's so much understanding there, this like level of compassion that exists. 

A good group makes me emotional.

So like that tugs in my heart. To see them accept one another and really, it just, it's nothing like it. 

Yeah.  

It's one of those unspokens like 

yeah. 

We just get the privilege of experiencing. 

Yeah. I think too, something's coming up for me a little bit and I wonder your thoughts on this, if you.

When you watch someone go from zero to 60, which again is often how these clients present, right? That window of tolerance is really small and it's just that's their normal, that's their baseline and that's okay. We're all different. But when you see someone do that and you extend validation or warmth or compassion, or like you said, you don't withdraw, you don't also become dysregulated you ground.



Can you see how quick that drops? It's wild to witness this, right? But that's typically not how these clients are met. They're met with rejection, they're with anger, they're met with a lot of avoidance, push away shame. 



And so that's always like really remarkable too. And it's not, I guess I don't want people to get the sense that this doesn't mean you.

Dismiss the behavior or say it's okay or approve of it. That's not what validation is. That's it's not approving of the behavior. Validation is being able to, Hey, I understand like there's something going on right now. This experience for you is real. 

Happening 

inside. Your body is real.

Yeah. I'm here with you in that. And I do, I've said it before, but I. I am, I'm curious your thoughts on that, like the validation piece and man, if we could just extend a little bit more of that onto the wall. 

Girl. 



I think about it and I'm like that ability to go zero to 60, I mean that protected them 

Oh yeah.

In a lot of circumstances potentially. And so that is how they learned. To receive support maybe, or attention or just anything. And so when we are validating, we're validating the emotion that they might be experiencing, we're validating. I hear you're upset. I hear you're disappointed, and you know what?

You have every right to be disappointed about that. And then I go, you did not get to learn the skills to sit with that feeling, or you probably brought it to somebody and said, I'm feeling really disappointed. And they said, you don't have any reason to be 

No. Just total dismissal. 

I wait, I think of building like emotion tolerance.

I would talk about it. It's it, when you're nine and someone. Makes you upset and they say you have no reason to be upset. And you go, okay, I don't have any reason to be upset. And then at 15 you say, I'm upset, and the other person says, you have no reason to be upset. But then at 20, someone makes you upset.

They say you have no reason to be upset, and you are if. Flamed at that person, you're not enraged because of that person. You have years of anger that you didn't get to validate and address. And I think that's a big piece that we are not always present with, is that we're not dealing with like immediate anger.

We are dealing with a consistent experience over time that has built up. 

Yeah. That is so important to say. And you're speaking to what is maybe the most important thing here, which is like these clients. This diagnosis stems from trauma. It stems from neglect and abuse and chronic invalidation.

And so just like you, I love that, that you use that, that 9, 15, 20, and how that kind of grows and you see again, oh man, everyone and everything makes sense in context. Everyone's like beautiful in that picture, in my opinion.

It just is amazing. But that's, I think that's what, like really when that stigmatization is put on. I think, wow, we're really missing this key piece, this rooted in trauma and you are shaming someone for the protect measures and behaviors that stemmed from that trauma.

So their needs could be met. How wild is that? 

Yeah. 

What other diagnosis do we do that with?

See, and the fact that it's so hard to, we wouldn't tell someone that's grieving to get over it, like it's all, it seems to be reserved for this population that has assumed this persona that it's an overreaction or it's a stereo or it's something small. And it's no, there's a bigger picture here that we do not see in front that's not in front of us, and they might not be able to even tell us about that bigger picture.

Yeah, that's the wild part, right? Like they have access to what they have access to and it's likely pretty limited in terms of trauma and how it can work and how our brain functions with it and holds it, but. Yeah. 

How do you, if you know you're going to be in a skills group or be working with someone, how do you do anything special to prepare yourself or get yourself in the place to receive whatever may come into the room?

 

Yeah, that is a great question. And at first, no, again, just no idea, right? And to me this mindfulness piece meant meditation and meditation sounded long and hard, and I never wanna sit still with myself or really be alone with my own thoughts, which, ah, probably shouldn't say that. But here we are.

But yeah that grounding, that mindfulness, the awareness. I really try hard to reframe mindfulness to just simple awareness, right? What's going on around you? What's going on in your body? Just bring presence. And so I will, I'll do that, those exercises before I go into a session with a client, before I go into a skills group across the board.

I do that, right? Just how can I ground myself in this moment? Make sure that I feel, safe and 



And I've been really interested in IFS lately, and so that kind of sense. And you did a podcast that I listened to with Emily and 



She's like my IFS guru on TikTok. I love her. But.

That grounding, that kind of bringing coming into self energy and being able to extend that self energy out is a huge practice for me. 

So 

Do you do that for yourself? 

I think I prepare myself to in any session, actually, I have learned that I always wanna meet the person a step below where they are.

And what I mean by that is, 'cause sometimes one time I like when, like during internship, I came in one time and I was like, Hey. And they were like no, I was like. And so I was setting the tone for a more neutral space so that when they come in, they don't feel, especially if working with people pleasers, like there's no pressure to show up any kind of way but yourself.

And so I always come in with the idea, like I'm always meeting the person just a notch below where they are so that I can, if they do become heightened, then I'm already preparing my body to receive that and be present with that. 

Wow. So even just like energetically, right? Just I'm a couple notch and below.

I love that. It's funny you said that. I came in my internship like, hey, and I imagine, I really think that's what I did those first couple groups, right? I just walked in, I was like, Hey I'm so happy to be here. And yeah. That can be a lot for people.

Especially people who are really sensitive to emotional stimuli, to energy. A lot of clients with BPD, a lot of clients who have trauma in their history are extremely hypervigilant. They can pick up on everything in the room and that, that's a lot to take in.

So I love that. What a cool way to frame that. 

And as you build rapport over time, you learn where you can meet them. Yeah. And so I know when I first start with a group, I really like. It's a real neutral space. I'm like, you don't know me. I don't know. You we're building trust. We're laying like foundation, but like by like group number nine, we're like, what's up?

Like love giving high. I worked with someone and I would go, there's my girl, give her a high five and be like, let's go to session. And you build that rapport and you get to know how everyone responds to different things. And how.

Good. It must feel, I get excited when someone wants to see me. And so when you're in a tough spot and you might feel like a burden or not worthy, how wonderful that there is someone who, regardless of how you're feeling, regardless of where you are, is so excited to see you.

Wow. Yeah. Again, you're just speaking to that power of the therapeutic relationship. And. How important it is, and I think, first of all, I was gonna touch on something you said a minute ago. I was gonna just tell you, you are such a really calm, grounding presence. You and I hopped on a phone call within three days of you each other's content.

And I was just like, yeah, I could talk to this girl anytime. You're very warm and welcoming and I, man your clients are so lucky to work with you. That's beautiful. But yeah, I just, I think that I, again, I imagine you feel similarly. I truly do get excited to see every single one of my clients.

I love it. Like I want, Sam wants to see me every week. And I wanna see you in all of your mess and your shit and your shame and all, everything you bring into the room. 

Yeah. I'm here for it. I have no doubt that people are excited to see you.

Oh, 

you have such like a calming voice too. Like I love. Like your videos, especially when you call people baby girl, like it's just so nurturing and grounding and I loved your like response to some people who have responded hey, like that's so odd. And it's yeah, we have not always been met in our inner child.

We have not always been met. So loving and so nurturing and so to want to offer that space. On a larger scale than just the says so much about you. 

Oh, that's so kind. Yeah. That was it's always fun to capital F fun to get feedback. I love it. And it's hard at times. I did, I had people say, Hey, I'm a grown ass woman, and I'll tell you what.

Yeah. I feel that. And there are people who worked hard to be seen as that in their life and who maybe were treated like a little girl or. They fought for that and I honor that. And truly there's just something for me. 

That 

girl in you, that vulnerable part.

'cause she's there in all of us. I truly believe that those parts of us that are just vulnerable 

I love that you are still moving with the same intention.

And as we grow as people, as you grow, you might find like a new word or something different. A different part to speak to. But that is what is resonating for you right now. And I think that's what keeps content exciting, is to do what resonates to do what we're called to make. 

Yeah, the authenticity piece I think is huge and.

I love showing up on social media and really trying to lean into that authenticity even though it's so scary. Is it scary for you? I'm sure 

it depends. Sometimes I'm like, man, I don't know what I'm doing today.  

You got it though. 

You're doing good. 

You're doing good. We're doing it. It's just been such a wonderful space. I love our content group. I think I was telling my therapist about our content group. I was like, I love this group of ladies. Like it's amazing. 

Never did I ever expect to meet and connect.

I guess that's, what social media, that's what we say it is, right? It's meant for connection and that's why we're on it and on these apps. That didn't even cross my mind, that I would meet beautiful, wonderful women and connect with them on a deeper level outside of liking someone's content, saving someone's posts, whatever that is.

Actually connect, build relationships with, seek out for support. Have that community, and it's amazing that we fostered that again, that kind of, it goes back to that group tie, right? 



So much beauty and connection and with borderline, there's 



Disconnection in their life.

And if you can foster that connection, it heals. There's so much healing power in that and. Again you've spoken to it in terms of the therapeutic relationship. That's connection. It's what we need as humans. We're speaking to it on the other end, as therapists, we need connection with other people on this line of work that we can speak with.

We can 

We can be seen by, and then again, you have these beautiful borderline clients who. Have been pushed away a lot in their life and their relationships have suffered and there's power and connection for them.

Absolutely. 

Yeah. 

I feel like we could talk about this all evening. 

Kick into the night.  

Sam, thank you so much for joining me this evening. How can people connect with you if they wanna work with you, if they wanna find your content?  

Oh yeah. Thanks for asking that. So I am on Instagram as your irreverent therapist.

As you mentioned before, I'm on TikTok as Samantha Scott. They probably should be the same, we'll see. And then I am offering coaching through my website, Ember Coaching and Consulting so that I can work with people that are not in Utah. Love to connect with people. 



And as a final question for all of my guests this season, I am asking what is your commitment to yourself for 2025? 

Let's see, number one, graduating happens in August. I'm so excited. Man, the biggest commitment the thing I have been. Working on, I think for the past year and a half is really honoring myself and really taking actions that are aligned with myself.

You talked about people pleasing, I think we work with a lot of clients like that. I think a lot of women have people pleasing in their system. But really just listening for those yeses. In 



My own system, right? Things I really wanna do. I have so much more creativity and energy when I connect back to myself.

So that's my commitment in 2025. And I love that you asked that question. 

I love that. Thank you so much for sharing, and thank you so much for joining me today. 

Oh my gosh, I love it. I appreciate you so much.

 Thank you all so much for tuning into this episode. Make sure you tap the bell to stay in the loop with new episodes dropping every Friday. If this episode spoke to you, I'd be so grateful if you left a review. It helps others find the show and reminds me why I keep showing up. And if you wanna keep the conversation going, come hang with me on socials at Uni Wellness LC.

We're healing out loud together.