adhd, autism & identity — the truths we’re finally naming with Becca Tolbert

today we are diving  in with therapist and adhd expert rebecca tolbert, who brings both professional wisdom and lived experience to this conversation.

 we talk about:
 ✨ the quiet ways adhd shows up in women — and why it’s often missed
 ✨ masking, burnout, and the pressure to be “high-functioning”
 ✨ the grief of being misread, misdiagnosed, and misunderstood
 ✨ how the current political climate is messing with our nervous systems
 ✨ joy as resistance, and choosing softness over shame

if you’ve ever felt like you’re working twice as hard to hold it all together — this episode is for you.

come for the insights, stay for the healing. the mic is hot. 🔥

Transcript

 Hello everybody. Welcome back to all our Parts. Welcome to all our Parts. If you're new here, I am so excited to have my guest today. She works with women, specifically A DHD, and offers group coaching program, as well as individual therapy, but she is booked and busy. Rebecca Tolbert, thank you so much for joining me today.

Yeah, I'm really excited to be here and be chatting with you. So we connected through LinkedIn posting just a lot of similar stuff, especially around when we think about like multi-passionate women, which is the phrase that we're using. And when we think about women diagnosed with A DHD or misdiagnosed and what that process had looked like throughout the years, I loved just what you were impost, like empowering the idea that women can in fact be multifaceted beings.

Absolutely. I think it's so easy to be pigeonholed or even to pigeonhole ourselves into I am this right? I am a therapist. I am, or I am a coach, I am a mom. I am like a DHD, so that means blah, blah, blah, blah. And there's so much more to us than any of the labels that we ascribe to ourselves.

And I want to create the space and the freedom for women to discover that and grow into the fullness of who they are. Absolutely. So how did you choose that as your specialty? As your niche? I have really. I guess like a DHD as well as autism and a lot of other, mental health diagnoses. And my A DHD is a lot to deal with. And so throughout the course of my social work career and my honestly like my whole life, I've really wanted to figure out what to do with my brain. I never had the right support. And so there were things that I found that were super helpful and I was always looking up like a DHD therapist, A DHD coach, and I could never find somebody that felt like the right fit for me that was working on the kinds of things that I knew that I needed to work on.

And so that's why I do what I do because I couldn't find it. And so I knew that if I was looking for that, other people were looking for it as well. Absolutely. So I am not an expert in that area, so I'm definitely going to be asking you a lot of questions. What I do know is that a lot of times when we're younger, like women, girls, do not always get the A-D-H-D-A-D-D diagnosis because it does not show up.

With the same hyperactivity that shows up in boys at a young age. What do you feel like gets missed between the two genders? I think this is the case for generally like women with A DHD and sometimes for boys who are on the distracted as opposed to the hyperactive side of A DHD. Is that a hyperactive.

Little boy is disturbing your classroom and the teacher's this has gotta stop. I can't handle it. People can't focus, this is a mess. I can't focus, like we gotta do something about this. And so in that, it's like we gotta do something about this child, not this child needs support. And so what you'll see on women's or like girls' report cards is she's so smart, but she needs to focus. Or she's always daydreaming, like her head is in the clouds. So there's an awareness that there's a disconnect for the kid, but there's not the same level of let's do something about it because it's only harming that child.

As opposed to the rest of the classroom. Yes, I certainly got the, on a lot of my report cards, I was, especially in math, it for the life of me, I could not sit and focus. But yes the larger impact is the hyperactivity, is the disruption within the classroom. And the teacher is I need to maintain order in this space versus the other side of it, which is she is simply in like her own world and not a disruption.

And therefore, the things that go missed are the quiet ones. The people who aren't always the loudest in the room. Yeah, absolutely. Historically the research has been around white boys, right? And so that's what we know to look for is the symptoms that most commonly show up in white boys.

And so when you have a very typically presenting girl, you just don't even think oh, this kid clearly has adhd. Because the DSM is based around. A certain demographic and this neurotype shows up differently in different people. Yeah. I feel as we're talking about this right now, my brain is like connecting larger pieces within society and that like women are often taught to be.

Seen, not heard and expected to quiet themselves to be able to manage themselves so that they can keep the piece of a classroom a group, a space of family. And so at a young age. So much of that is already starting to be internalized and through practice, as we're having this conversation right now, is literally being zeroed in on a notebook or notes and not having the tools or the skills to be able to ask for the right support.

Yeah. And not even knowing that. The support is there, like the support's not always there. And so I think that's important to note too, is that now there's a lot more information, there's a lot more research, there's a lot more knowledge around like what a DHD is, what it looks like, how it shows up.

And so there's things that I can do. For clients, and I have some family coaching clients as well and supports that I can provide for those parents that like my parents didn't have because the research wasn't there yet. And so even though I actually got a diagnosis when I was in second grade, which is like wild, and especially because I wasn't hyperactive like I was just.

In my own world, you're like, what is going on with this child? Let's like take her in. And there's a history of a DHD in my family and so they like thought to be like, okay, let's go get her tested, because there was like that history there. But yeah, even with my parents, wanting to do everything they could for me that just all they was meds.

There wasn't all of the research and the data and the knowledge that we have now back then. Yeah. Do you feel that A DHD is still as stigmatized as it was, or do you feel like more people are starting to understand it and embrace it in a different way? I think that's a great question that I would've had a very different answer for three months ago than I have right now.

Considering all, everything that's going on with autism in all of that, right? Like everything that's going on there, and I know that RFK is gonna be coming for a DHD too. Three months ago, I would've been like, yeah. I think that we're making a lot of progress. I think that there's a much wider understanding, there's a lot more diagnoses of women because of social media. And so there's this oh, I have a DHD. This is what it looks like. This is how it impacts me. And people are like, oh my gosh, but maybe, bam, those are all my symptoms. I thought I was just like broken my whole life. Turns out I have a different type of brain. Cool. I can get support that I need.

I think that's been huge and super helpful for so many people. I don't know. I don't know what's gonna happen with NIH and stuff. What I have learned through podcasting in the last couple of months is that it's extremely. Hard to not discuss politics. And politics right now has.

Infiltrated every single piece of our world and it's hard to not look at one without the other. Yes. Three months ago we could look at content, we could look at programs, we could look at even individuals and see yes, we are starting to understand Neurodivergence in a different way. We are starting to embrace it.

See the strength, see the beauty of it the magic of it and be able to stay present in that space. Now, not that gets negated or that gets pushed aside, that's still very much there and there is. Very harmful rhetoric that is happening right now within the current administration. And there are people that back, the current administration who are co-signing this really harmful rhetoric.

And so it's hard, it is impossible right now to have a conversation without discussing the unraveling that is happening right now. Yeah. I'm sure that's made it really interesting for you. Navigating all of that, as a therapist in DC as a podcast host. It just like it is, I think necessary.

I think I'm thinking back towards like the pandemic Covid time where we really started to see the intersection and the. Interconnectedness of social justice issues and politics and our everyday lifestyle starting to emerge. And now that awakening never went away. And we are in a space right now where the silence would actually be deafening and to not talk about it would.

I don't even, it would be, it's just impossible. It's like there's a really huge elephant in the room. It's taking up all the space. And you're trying to watch a movie. Could you like gonna try and move you to watch this movie and really try and ignore you when we can't because it. It shapes the work that we do.

It shapes how we essentially choose to show up in these spaces. It really does. And we were talking about this before we turn the podcast on, but we both live and work in DC. So it's just, it's here. It's what is happening. It means advocacy even has to look different. So what does it look like to support individuals diagnosed with autism, A DHD, living on any sides of the spectrum?

As clinicians, coaches, what does it look like to offer that support? What does it look like to be more like informed in, in supporting people who are either presenting with symptoms or whatever the case may be, but we all have, like now it's a collective responsibility. Yeah, I agree with that.

Man, this just took a turn. But that's, that's the world that we're, that's where we are right now, and I think that being transparent about that is like so important. Have you seen that show up in your work being someone who also works in DC Yeah. My client today was. Which shows up in a lot of ways, a lot of ways.

I have a lot of clients with A DHD and autism, and so the autism conversation has been a big one this week with those of my clients who are autistic and who have kids that are autistic and have formal diagnoses, whereas like my clients may or may not have formal diagnoses and they're like really worried about their kids and.

It shows up with my, like a DHD clients that are federal employees because they're really worried about their jobs. And they're really worried about, okay, I've gotta make sure that I'm like showing up in a certain way and I'm really stressed out about that. There's this instability that everyone is experiencing right now because the actions have been very chaotic. And have not felt like there's much of rhyme or reason to it. Every single person who is employed with federal government is very worried right now they just have no idea what's going on.

How do you feel it's impacting you as a provider in this space?

I really care about my clients. I do this because I really like people and I really like working with people, and I'm really passionate about people building resilience and caring for people. It really sucks because I'm really frustrated and sad for them. At the same time I'm seeing incredible resilience and that's really encouraging.

Shout out to well fed. Have you heard about them? I haven't. This is an organization that a friend of mine started that is for former and current federal employees, and I did a workshop with them last week where I was talking about stress responses.

Here's what's happening in your nervous system. Here are the things that you can do. To help yourself regulate and build resilience. And then here's stuff that you can do like more long term to continue to activate your rest and digest system to help you calm yourself and feel more ready to take on what life is throwing at you.

And I have been really, I've had to be really intentional about practicing those things myself too. So it's all of those things where it's like I'm upset and I'm hopeful because I see people being awesome. And care for myself so much because I wanna be able to be there for my clients and support them.

Yeah. When I asked about you, I recognize you trailed back into talking about your work and as providers, we have to be, I think now more than ever so intentional about how we show up for ourselves, what self-care looks like, what that means, how we have to maybe shift ideas of what success means.

There's so many factors that we have to be conscientious of as people in the mental health space right now who are. Choosing and loving the privilege of being able to show up for people right now. We still have to be people first, people too, almost, and put our oxygen masks on at a time where the empathy.

I don't know for you, but the empathy runeth over and I am at a loss of the level of collective hopelessness that is felt by everyone. And a lot of us come into this space because we wanna support our clients and. Finding solutions that work for them and support them in their problem solving skills.

And this is a long-term problem that none of us have an answer and what to do to quote unquote fix it. Yeah. It is what I've been saying a lot to folks, and this is it sounds dark, but it is what it is. I've been thinking a lot about Viktor Frankl. And his work and man's search for meaning, and this is not that.

This is like I am. In a house that I own, my toddler and my husband are downstairs, and I'm fine right now. But there's such wisdom in his work and thinking about he was like literally in the worst situation that a person could be in. It just doesn't get much worse than being in a concentration camp.

And he was still able to. Build resilience for himself there. Which is absolutely incredible. And there's so much that we can learn from that. And that's the kind of mindset that I've been talking to my clients about. It's okay, here's some of the practices that he did. How can we integrate those into your life right now?

Because let's say you like work for the EPA and you really care about the environment. Now the EPA is not trying to protect the environment. And so all of the things that you've worked for your whole career, you feel are, getting destroyed and nature. You care about nature and it's getting destroyed and that is true.

Like it just is what it is and it's really bad. And so in the midst of that, what can we do to build resilience in you? Because I'm not trying to like toxic positivity anyone, 'cause things are really hard. I've been so intentional with folks and with myself about being like, we're doing safety checks all the time.

Is your body safe right now? And I'm like, okay, there's nothing inside my room that's gonna kill me at this moment. Which sounds like glib, but it's my nervous system. When I look on Instagram, when I look on anything my nervous system is like completely activated. You're about to die and.

That is not helpful place for my brain to be, if I wanna be in a place where I can do anything to change what's happening. Yeah. And so I have to learn how to regulate myself and be like, okay, I am actually physically safe right now. Doing okay. Do I need any food? Do I need any water? Do I need to go to the bathroom?

What is going on with my body in this moment? Okay. I've taken care of myself. Then what do I want to do that's aligned with my values right now in this moment? And sometimes it's go take a nap. And sometimes it's go to a protest. And sometimes it's calling a senator or whatever the case may be.

But it really is. Resetting so that you can use your whole brain, because all of this stuff is like a DHD stuff too, right? If your nervous system is really activated, the front part of your brain turns off, and that's where all of your A DHD symptoms live is in the front part of your brain.

So if you're really stressed out. Then your brain is like, cool, we're about to die. We need to put all the energy into all the survival things, and we don't need like long-term planning. We don't need emotional regulation. We don't need organization or, task initiation. Like none of that matters if you're about to get eaten by a lion.

So let's reset. Let's regulate, let's build some of those strategies in. Then let's use our whole brains and make our decisions and do our actions based on that. Yes. To literally all of it. And I love the reminder of some we sometimes just need to pause and think about did we, I. Did we rest?

Did we have adequate sleep last night? Have we eaten today? Are we hydrated? Like doing those nervous system checks like. It can very well be something external, but really honing in on the things that we can control, if we can control them and do something about them in the immediate moment, can really help us support building that tolerance to the external chaos that is going on right now.

Today I was on the Metro and I just felt my, I hit like a crash, like I was exhausted. I was in a mood too. I was like, man, I need to get into my house immediately. And I was like, you know what Jasmine, you haven't eaten today. Like you need to go have lunch. You need to just lay down. I took a like quick nap world of a difference and so new person it's really like part of like building resilience, building tolerance is really.

Acting in the things that are in your control. Yeah. Being consistent in those as often as possible, as much as you can in whatever way that looks like for you and implementing those into your toolbox into your self care maintenance. Because there is so much external that is happening right now 

that will ultimately disrupt us, that is meant to actually disrupt us. And so we have to, not only for ourselves and teaching our clients, but we have to be very proactive in what it looks like to combat the chaos and the exhaustion that it is impending us right now. Yeah, no, absolutely.

And I even, I. Thinking about that. There's six things that I focus on with my coaching clients, and this is actually the same six things that I talked about last week in the workshop that I led for the formal federal, former federal employees, and I call them the emre pillars, which is sleep, eat, move, plan, relate, and enjoy.

And so that's re, which is like. It also means always. Because they're always the things that we know that we should be doing. If we have a DHD and they're the things that are always the hardest to do. Like sleep. There is nothing better for your executive functioning system than getting eight hours of sleep a night.

Full stop. Nothing is gonna help your A DHD more. Nothing is gonna help your anxiety more. Nothing is gonna help your depression more. There's nothing that will help you more than getting eight or more hours of sleep at night, but nobody does it. Because it's really hard. It's really hard to prioritize and it's really hard to initiate sleep, especially if you're stressed out.

Because if you're stressed out and your body needs to sleep. But you're experiencing stress. So your body thinks that you're about to die. Why would you leave yourself completely vulnerable? Because sleep is like the most vulnerable thing you do, and so you can't fall asleep because you've got anxiety.

Because your brain is, your brain and body are trying to keep you alive, and it's a very like. Compassionate thing that your body is trying to do by keeping you up, it's just not actually helpful. So we talk about sleep, we talk about eating and making sure you're getting calories in the morning so that you can regulate your blood sugar throughout the day.

Because if you're not getting enough calories, your cortisol is gonna spike and that's gonna activate your stress. System. And then the front part of your brain turns off and you need that. When you have a DHD, you really need that. So all of these things are like so integrated and they're not just the case for A DHD, they're the case.

For anybody who's experiencing chronic stress, it's a collective experience right now, but I also love that. The last piece of it is I always right now, I tell my clients, I'm like, now more than ever joy has always been an act of resistance.

When we think about Stonewall, when we think about civil Rights movement, Harlem, Renaissance, like all of those factors, joy is what moves communities and it's what reignites people to continue moving forward. And so I remind my clients as much as what we see is draining to. Our nervous draining to our bodies.

We wanna curl up, we wanna watch tv, we wanna dim the lights, have a snack and isolate. It's like now more than ever, we really need to be leaning into community and leaning into the things that we enjoy, leaning into the things that are going to inspire us because we let those things fall on the wayside, we let them win and we're telling them like, you have so much power and control over us. And again, that's part of building that resilience. You don't get to take these moments of joy for me. You don't get to take these moments of pleasure of slowness, of ease as much as possible, as often as possible.

Incorporating that is a form of resistance and it's what helps energize people in strategizing on what to do next. Yeah. Even going back to Frankl, one of his practices was to find something beautiful every day.

Like, how wild is that? This man's I'm gonna find something beautiful to appreciate every single day and that is amazing. And so I can do that. Like I can do that. I've got things that are beautiful. I've got things that I enjoy. And even in a less intense way, I always think about so with my A DHD folks, I hear this in everyone.

Is it like when I get my life together, then I can do the things that I like. Then I'll have earned happiness. But your life's probably not ever gonna get together. Let's be real. The odds that like your whole house is gonna be organized and all of your work is gonna be up to date and all of your 

I don't know. Everything is gonna be perfect. And then you get to plan something fun with your friends. That's just not that it, it's just not kind to yourself. And especially when we think about like how your dopamine system works, part of the reason that a DHD folks have such a hard time paying attention is because we have less dopamine in our brain system.

Dopamine is the chemical. So it actually sometimes is helpful to reward yourself before you do the thing because then you've got more dopamine in your system and then you can focus a little bit better. But you have to reward yourself and actually appreciate it. And so it not be like, oh, I'm like, I shouldn't be doing this.

Like blah, blah, blah, you just do it because you like it because you're allowed to like things and you're allowed to want things and you just do it. And then you celebrate oh my gosh, it was so much fun. And then you sit down and you write the thing, or you do the notes. Or whatever it is.

But it's really like giving yourself permission to prioritize too. Like I absolutely agree that joy is an act of resistance and it's more important now than ever but you have to give yourself permission to do it. Yeah, it's, and it's the reminder that our worth is not tied to what we produce, our outcomes, that we, it is rest, joy.

These things are not things that we have to earn, in this society, especially in DC like in the hustle epicenter. Giving ourselves permission to say, I get to enjoy. Laying on the mall for two hours, looking at the sky, daydreaming, going to play pickleball, getting a coffee without bringing my laptop and trying to multitask.

I get to enjoy simplicity simply because I am inherently worthy and I don't have to earn that. Yeah. And I think. For some of us, there's this piece of growing up, I don't necessarily think there's anything inherently wrong with this, but it's this okay, you can play outside once your homework's done.

Or you can have friends over once your room is clean. And I don't think that's necessarily bad. But I think we internalize that so much when you've got a DHD or executive functioning issues and then take those rules into adulthood. My homework's never done.

'cause if you're an entrepreneur, your homework's never done because there's something else you could be. If you're a federal employee, your homework's never done because there's 4 billion things that you're working on all the time. So it's just like those rules may have worked then, but we internalize 'em.

We try to make 'em work they don't work now. So it's more like you play outside. You're not allowed to do your work until you play outside. You're only gonna get your room clean if you invite your friends over. We've internalized the setting limits as kids who cannot always regulate and set their own limits.

Yeah. Now as adults, we've turned those limits into rules, and then we've tied them to our identity and our worth, and. That's a whole other episode. Or how do we, what does it look like to set limits and not tie them to our worth and everything? But I love that conversation. But being able to. I think permission is what allows those things to actually be enjoyable If we don't give ourselves that permission.

If we don't sit in the shame space of, ugh, I haven't earned this, I haven't done this. Like the list. All of the things it, and we don't, it doesn't really reward us and give us what we need to do the next task. It is simply something that we've added to the to-do list to feel like we are doing because we then have to, and then it just becomes a terrible cycle.

But all in all permission, being able to be present with rest, being able to be present with joy are such gifts that we can give ourselves. Yeah. That we really need right now. Yeah. Rebecca, this has been the best conversation. I can't wait for our next one, which we'll do a little live in person now that we are.

Hi. Now that we know that we live so close together, but thank you so much for joining me this evening. What is one tip you want to leave with people who are struggling to find joy in these times right now?

That's such a good question.

I would say don't force it. Don't force yourself to have joy right now. If you're experiencing grief, that's valid. You feel that grief and you go through that wave. And once you've experienced that wave, then you'll have space for joy. The anger that you're experiencing. You're allowed to be angry.

You're allowed to feel the negative emotions that you're experiencing. And if you try to make it so that you can't feel those oh, I shouldn't be this, I shouldn't be that. Then it's gonna be really hard for you to also feel joy. And so I think that right now it's validating like things are hard.

It's not just be happy. Oh, things are really tough right now. And that might look different for anybody who's listening to this. And so saying okay, I'm really sad. I'm really sad about these things that are happening in the world and. Where do I feel the sadness in my body? Is it in my chest?

Do I feel like in my throat? What does that feel like? I recognizing, okay, I can experience this very strong, intense emotion and be physically safe at the same time, so I'm grounded to the present reality. I'm experiencing a really big feeling. And then once I let that experience happen, then I have space to be like, and there's still really beautiful things happening.

But if you try to shut it down and numb it out, then you're not gonna be able to feel joy. Cannot have one without the other. No. It's all, we are messy. We gotta let it be messy. As a final question, I'm asking all of my guess, what is your commitment to yourself for 2025? Honestly, my big commitment for 2025 is prioritizing relationships and getting to know more people. So this is super fun and like prioritizing the relationships that fuel and feed me. Because I adore working with my clients. They don't fuel me, right? That's not their job. It would be really unethical if it's that make me feel better.

That's not my role. And so really prioritizing those relationships that I'm like, this is a person that I can call when things are really tough and being there for them as well. That's my commitment to myself 2025. I love it.  Rebecca, thank you so much again.

 Thank you all so much for tuning into this episode. Make sure you tap the bell to stay in the loop with new episodes dropping every Friday. If this episode spoke to you, I'd be so grateful if you left a review. It helps others find the show and reminds me why I keep showing up. And if you wanna keep the conversation going, come hang with me on socials at Healing with Jasmine.

We're healing out loud together.