Alignment Over Approval: Choosing Yourself Anyway with Meg Trucano

What if burnout isn’t the problem—but the invitation?

In this episode of The Visibility Standard, Jazz sits down with Meg Trucano, a change coach who helps people navigate identity shifts, career transitions, and the emotional aftermath of outgrowing who they used to be.

Together, Jazz and Meg unpack:

• Why burnout disconnects us from our joy, identity, and sense of choice
• The grief that comes with change, even when the change is good
• Why we cling to old identities (like “the hard worker”) long after they stop serving us
• How visibility, alignment, and self-trust are deeply intertwined
• Why small, everyday “acts of rebellion” are the foundation of real transformation

Meg shares her own journey from federal contracting to money coaching to change work—and why stepping into visibility now means being louder, bolder, and more authentically herself (woo, psychology, tarot deck and all).

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:01

I am so excited for my guest today. She is all about making big, bold, badass changes. She's got some of her own changes coming up on her website. But Meg Tricano, thank you so much for joining me today.

SPEAKER_01 0:14

Thank you so much for having me. I'm so delighted to be here.

SPEAKER_00 0:18

What got you into the work of change?

SPEAKER_01 0:21

All right. So this is a circuitous story. As many people who have kind of second professions do, I came to change coaching through burnout. I was a federal contracting researcher for a long time, over a decade, and I burnt out really hard. And I realized I had started a money coaching gig on the side, if you can believe it. And I loved it so much. And it brought me so much energy and so much joy. And so when I hit my breaking point at work, I was like, okay, I'm going to do this full time. I'm going to do what it takes to see if I can do this full time. And so I made an exit strategy and I came to money coaching full-time. And I did that full time for about two years. And I would get clients in and we would be talking about money-related stuff, budgeting, whatever. But we would get it, get it the psychology beneath all of that. And what I started to realize was that change is actually at the center, was actually at the center of everything. So it was the money stuff just sort of came out as a symptom. And so I started pulling the thread of, okay, maybe we are actually just talking about change here. And so I officially quote unquote made the change to having this be my niche. And yeah, I've been doing that ever since. So that was about two and a half years ago.

SPEAKER_00 1:55

Because you specialize in supporting folks in exploring their next career, right?

SPEAKER_01 2:01

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It could be career, it could be really anything. But I usually people come to me with the gateway problem of wanting to find their next step in their career. But many times, as with the money coaching, you get down in there and there's other stuff that comes up to the surface too. It's relationships, it's identity. There's a rich psychological person underneath all of this that, you know, your work is just one element of it and could be all sorts of different things. So, yes, people usually come to me with a career thing, but that's like the gateway drug, and we get into it after that.

SPEAKER_00 2:39

Yeah, I feel like burnout has become a more comfortable conversation for a lot of folks. It has become a key identifier that okay, something needs to change about what I'm doing in my work, what I'm doing in my day today. It's draining me from doing what I enjoy. What's another key indicator that somebody is ready for change?

SPEAKER_01 3:03

Can I tell you a story? This is top of mind because it just happened. Good friend of mine used to work with her. Went to visit her this weekend. And she's an herbalist. Like she makes her own teas for various things. And on the side, I was making myself a cup of tea, and on the side of the jar was a recipe for rage tea. And I looked at her and I was like, what is this? And she's like, Well, that would have been the first sign I should have noticed that I was in the wrong career. What's so interesting to me is that she put those two things together after she left, right? Her job that didn't fit, she didn't love it and had been stalling on doing anything about. But yeah, she was like, I had that recipe and I drank a cup of that tea for a year, every day for a year. This rage tea was supposed to help with that. So I think a lot of times this idea of burnout relates to energy levels and feeling just like not into it, not able to connect with the things that bring you joy in life, not even really knowing what does bring you joy. And I think that is a fundamental gap for a lot of people. They spend so much time and effort and energy getting their careers to a specific point that they've neglected parts of them throughout that process that they don't know what they like to do anymore. They don't like know what they like anymore. They've just been doing the same old thing in the same old way for so long that they really need that wake-up call, I think.

SPEAKER_00 4:41

Burnout, it truly disconnects us from ourselves. Like it really just, it's not just about work. It's not just about what we're doing for money, we'll say, if we if people believe that money is means to an end. Like it's not just about what we're doing for money. It starts to translate into I don't really know what I enjoy anymore. I don't really know who I am anymore.

SPEAKER_01 5:05

Yep.

unknown 5:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:07

And those are really scary questions, right? Like you've worked your entire professional life to get to a specific point, or you think it's going to give you something. When you get there, either you're going to feel a specific way, you're going to have something, you're going to be happy, you're going to be satisfied with what you have. Almost never does that actually happen unless we're practicing along the way how to drop into those feelings of feeling accomplished and enjoying our lives. You don't just magically wake up one day after you get that promotion and your life changes. Is that's not how it works. And I think that's a huge misconception. So when people finally realize that after they get the promotion, after they get to this point in their career, they're like, okay, now what? Now what do I do? And that's, I think, where connecting with other people, whether it's a coach, whether it's a therapist, whether it's your best friends, just connecting with other people to try and piece that back together is so, so important.

SPEAKER_00 6:08

And then when we make that change, a lot of times it can be a really good change, a change that we're really excited about. But there's still grief that comes up.

SPEAKER_01 6:18

I'm so glad you mentioned the grief element because I think we have this conception that grief is reserved for death or is reserved for things that are extremely grave and monumental. And yes, that is a kind of grief, but really grief is anytime you have a status quo, like where you are, and an imagined future or outcome that you thought would happen, and there's distance between those two points, right? Like I thought I would feel different. That's grief. That is real actual grief. And it's it deserves respect and it deserves that the same attentiveness as an emotion, I think, as those big, big, big grief elements. Because, and I would add, it's probably even more insidious because there's a less social acceptability around feeling grief that your career doesn't make you feel the way you thought it would when you were 20 years old and picking your career path, you know? And I think this happens in all sorts of big points in our lives when we're reckoning with new identities. So, like you're becoming a parent, right? Like becoming a parent is one of the biggest grieving times of your life because you had a life, you had an idea of what kind of parent you were gonna be, what kind of kid you were gonna have, what kind of life you were gonna have. And I guarantee you, in very, very, unless it's very rare circumstances, is gonna be different than you imagine because you don't know what you don't know.

SPEAKER_00 7:53

Yeah. It's almost like when we have the thing happen of, okay, great, we got this new job, we have this new opportunity, we have this very aligned, significant thing happening in our lives. We think we're supposed to feel differently, but to get to that aligned place, we've had to like make changes in our lives. We had to make sacrifices. We maybe have had to change our relationships, change the ways we interact in our life, change our hobbies so that we can get to that place. There's bound to be grief that comes up.

SPEAKER_01 8:27

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Exactly. And it's what you're referring to, I think, is that grief of an old identity of someone that you used to be, and the dreams and aspirations and feelings that were attached to that identity, right? And what I think is really important is that space for grief, but also that sense of agency that I get to choose what I do next and who I become next, right? As opposed to it being a passive consequence of choices, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 9:04

Yeah. Why do you think we miss that old identity so much? Like we have the thing that we've been working towards, but we still find ourselves attached to the person that we used to be.

SPEAKER_01 9:17

I think there's a lot of reasons. I think there's the element of safety, right? Because it's the devil you know, right? Like you you, for better or for worse, like you are where you are right now because of that person, because of that identity. It's kept you safe for however long. So I think that makes the most sense from a kind of psychological standpoint is that you were benefiting from being that person in some or many ways. But I also think that there's kind of getting getting a little bit deeper in there too, is like there are so many like little things that get attached to an identity. It's the dreams that you had when you started out in this identity, there, the lessons you've learned, the battles you've won, the battles you've lost, all of this just kind of becomes inextricably linked with that person. And when you step away from it, especially intentionally, it's it just it feels so big. And it feels like such a part of you that has stepped away from that and all of those things that maybe have taught you lessons and maybe have served you well in the past, right? I think one of the big ones that I work with my clients on a lot is this identity of being a hard worker, right? It got them far in their life to be a hard worker, but then they got to another point in their life, and being a hard worker is a huge liability to them right now because it means something different now. And so I think there are no like right or wrong, there is no good or bad. It's just how is this attribute, how is this trait serving me right now in this current identity, in this current season of my life?

SPEAKER_00 11:06

I love that you choose the hard worker analogy because I feel like a lot of people when they transition into entrepreneurship, there's that drive, that hustle that, okay, now I get to work 24-7 for myself. And it's like actually, I now have permission to work in the ways that feel good for me. And so that means some days I may work at my desk, some days I may work from the couch, some days I may work from a coffee shop, but it's undoing that learning of what it means to be a hard worker and what it looks like to be a hard worker and how that yields results.

SPEAKER_01 11:44

Yes, yes, yes. And all the stories that we attach to that, right? And and like you said, what it looks like. Well, I'm working just as hard from the couch as I am from my desk or you know, whatever it is. I've had to learn that lesson so many times as an entrepreneur. I have to keep relearning this lesson because it is so deeply ingrained in me to be the hard worker, right? And when I look at the concrete results that I have achieved in my business, whatever the that may be, it has absolutely nothing to do with like how many hours I put in or how, you know, like these metrics of hard work. So I think again, just taking that second to objectively evaluate whether this thing is serving you right now. And right now, for me in my entrepreneurial journey, I need to step off the hard work and I need to invite in a lot more space for creative thinking and collaboration and things like that. I'm having to learn this lesson over and over and over and over again.

SPEAKER_00 12:56

So and I think at different points in our journey, we always have to come back to it because we get ignited from the hard work because we see our business growing, we see the opportunities come in, and we're like, this equates like to hard work, but it's actually equated to alignment. It's equated to consistency and discipline.

SPEAKER_01 13:18

Yes, yes. And I'm so glad you brought up alignment because that is that's the conversation of like it is what are the behaviors that I am doing right now building an identity that I want to be. And are they aligned? And if they're not, then I need to do something different to make them aligned, you know? And I think having this discussion of alignment is great for entrepreneurs, but it's also great for people who are considering making a big change. It's like, okay, the reason that you're uncomfortable is because there's misalignment somewhere. And figuring out where that's coming from, it's probably coming from multiple different places, will help you understand how better to pick up new skills or develop certain parts of your self-concept, I guess, that will help you in building this new identity.

SPEAKER_00 14:15

When you brought up collaboration, one of those pieces is visibility. Why is it important for you to start showing up or being more visible for your brand?

SPEAKER_01 14:28

This is a really good question, and it's really timely because I think I've throughout my life, I have been a big ideas person standing in the corner, right? Willing to let other people kind of take what they will and move on if they don't like it, kind of thing. But I'm over that. I'm done. I'm stepping into a new era where I am gonna be loud and I'm going to say what I think. And if you like it, great. If you don't, also great. But visibility is how we connect, right? And I think that was maybe where you were going with that. Is if people can't see you and hear your message and know what you're about, how could they possibly connect with you in an authentic, meaningful way?

SPEAKER_00 15:22

And even more so, how can they trust you? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:26

And as a coach, how big of a liability is that, right? Like you need people to trust you. That is the whole point. So I'm just coming to the awareness that visibility is hugely, hugely important in this formula.

SPEAKER_00 15:43

What's the scariest part about it for you right now?

SPEAKER_01 15:48

I think the biggest scary part for me has always been fear of judgment. Right. And early, early on in my career, had someone very, very close to me be very critical about my decisions and about, you know, business models and things that I was saying online and whatnot, which you know, I didn't know what I didn't know. And now I would have had I started my business over again, I would have probably blocked a lot more people from seeing it. Just because if you always knew me as a specific kind of person in high school or as a friend or as a family member, yeah, this is gonna look weird and feel weird that I'm suddenly saying these things that you had no idea I felt this way. I had that happen really early on, and I'm glad it did because I moved through it. It sucked so much, but I moved through it and it taught me that I can handle critical judgment. It sucks, but I can handle it. And I think I think just knowing that you've been through it before and that you can handle it, that makes everything a little bit less scary.

SPEAKER_00 17:00

I love that you brought that up because when so many people start their visibility journey, their block family and friends, just to avoid the judgment. But you are speaking to like because I experienced that judgment early on, because I recognized what that looked like and what that felt like and was able to move through it. Now that you are in visibility 2.0, you can own those judgments and you can know how to handle what it looks like if someone starts making comments that aren't supportive or you know, aren't aligned with the direction that you are going with your brand.

SPEAKER_01 17:41

Yeah. And I think to add in all that and to add another layer to this is that now I can see, I've done this long enough that I can see their insecurity in their statement. I can see the threat to their identity or their perceived what they get from this, right? And a lot of times we don't stop to think that um, you know, me making a change affects other people. I'm not responsible for what other people think about me and feel about me and and what believe about my change, but it does affect other people. And um just having that understanding that okay, so this person is is feeling a little out of sorts because it's always been easy for them because I've done this thing for them, or I've been this way and tiptoed around their feelings for so long that when I finally start standing up for myself or setting a boundary or something, and they don't like that because it's uncomfortable, right? So a lot of complex social elements in there too, but it all comes down to being authentic and being aligned. Because if you spend all of your time and energy pretending to be something else, or putting a mask on, or dampening your message, that's energy that's lost that you could have actually reached the people who want to hear what you have to say.

SPEAKER_00 19:10

I love that you brought that up. Even as I'm before I even started on social media, I was always someone that stayed pretty neutral, that kept like the opinions pretty tame. I'm like, you know, I have my thoughts, but I'm not interested in sharing them. And so part of showing up online for me has been being bolder in my opinions. And so, as I've shared with you, like I am experiencing a bit more of a rebrand myself, being under the guise of like my therapist identity that allows for more neutrality, that allows for more multifaceted takes. And so taking that veil away has been unnerving in some way because I recognize, oh, I get to stand on like my own voice and my own opinions, and people may get a bolder, louder side of me. And I could be rubbing up against like an insecurity of theirs. Like I could be doing something that they may be laying in bed thinking, damn, I wish I was out there doing that.

SPEAKER_01 20:12

Yeah, it's inspiring. And I think that's another element of being visible too, is like people, I think people are starved for inspiration, personally. I think when you look to make a big change, the first thing you do is who's done this? Or who can I look to that can show me how to get started? Similar things. And when you're being quiet and you're like saying the right words, but it's just it's really disconnected from the true depth of your message. I feel like you have to be loud and you have to not loud, you have to be clear and bold with your message.

SPEAKER_00 20:52

It's amazing how often we look for a blueprint, and that offers us that comfort to move forward when we are like, okay, who's done it? How are they doing it? And part of like authenticity is like being okay if that doesn't work for you. Even if there's somebody who's super influential and someone with thousands of followers, I'm working, working through believing in impact over metrics. And so, regardless of numbers, regardless of all of the vanity things that we as our society have like really given a lot of value to, but just being impactful, reaching the core audience, like those are that's what's important. And so part of that is like, okay, that might work for them, but it's not gonna work for me. And that's okay.

SPEAKER_01 21:47

Yes. And I think as a sort of add on to that, is like the sentiment behind that is I always reserve the right to change my mind, right? Like maybe I try the vanity metrics for a little while. And I'm like, oh, this is not a fit. You get to change your mind as often as you want to, as you need to. And I think, oh, I think that there's a lot of like crap around this in popular culture and society about, you know, if you change your mind too often, you're flaky. But I actually think it's a power move. Like, if you change your mind, if you're like, I think this way, get some new information, you have a little bit more lived experience, and then you're like, actually, I was wrong. I believe this now. That is bold and that is powerful because isn't that what life is about? For you to get more experience, learn more, experience more, and then come to your conclusion and make your decision, right?

SPEAKER_00 22:45

Yeah, it really strengthens the self-trust journey when we allow ourselves to change our minds, when we allow ourselves to do something differently. I mean, how many folks are sitting wishing they allowed their allowed themselves to change their mind?

SPEAKER_01 23:01

I almost everybody, I'm sure, has a story like this where, you know, and I think my entreaty to anyone who is listening that is on the fence or that needs a little bit of an injection of bravery, bravery to make a move, is it's all going to be okay because if you are directing this energy, just keep directing your energy in the way that feels aligned and it will work out. I would so much rather make a hundred mistakes and just be out there trying than stuck at my desk having the same conversations with my therapist about how miserable I am at my job, right? Like you have the power to choose for yourself. And I think we really need to reclaim that power for ourselves. And the self-trust thing is huge, huge. The more often I have these things called small acts of rebellion, where it's kind of a mechanism to help your nervous system reset around making really icky feeling decisions, but that are good, good things, right? So setting a boundary, it might feel kind of like garbage to hold your boundary firm. That's a small act of rebellion, and that is going to boost your self-trust, right? And that is going to reestablish that sense of, hey, I can trust myself with these big decisions because I've trusted myself with these little things and I've showed up for myself.

SPEAKER_00 24:35

I was just going to say that's exactly how self-trust is built. When we allow ourselves to make those minute everyday choices, when we say, you know what, I'm going to wear the red pants instead of the pink pants, and I'm not going to care about what anyone says about them. I'm just going to wear them because I feel good in them. Giving yourself that encouragement to make that choice on your own will give you the go to make an even bigger choice. Like, okay, I want to completely rebrand my website. I want to apply to speak at this summit next year. Like when you trust yourself to make those everyday choices, to make those what seem like small acts of rebellion, you're saying I can trust myself with just about anything because I'm allowing myself to trust myself in this moment.

SPEAKER_01 25:23

Yeah. And you know, I think a nuanced point here is that at first they might not feel great, but they're important. So I one for me is I have a huge thing around cooking and like cooking really tasty food. And like it's very important to me. And growing up, that was sort of how my family showed love was like meals and cooking and food. And so I have a very big thing around as a mom, like serving something up from the freezer. Like it really um, like it, yes, it saves me time, but it also like really goes against this held belief that I have that cooking for your kids is like a devotional act and whatnot. And the other day I made something, it was very simple. I knew I would like it. I didn't know if anybody else would like it, but I just made the one thing. I didn't make 15 different things so that people would be sure to have something that they liked. I just made the one thing and nobody liked it. Nobody ate it. And I was like, you know what? That's okay. Because I like I'm not here to be making 15 things every night. It was a miss. I won't make it again for everybody, but I really enjoyed it. And to me, that felt like such a small act of rebellion because there was a point not too very long ago where I would have been like, oh, okay, okay, you didn't like it. Let me go quick, get you some chicken nuggets or whatever from the freezer and like whatever. But I'm done with that because I'm tired and I don't want to create any new things. But things like that where you're like, no, actually, my time means something, my feelings mean something. And yeah, that's groundbreaking for a lot of people.

SPEAKER_00 27:10

Oh my gosh, as a quick aside, I mean I love cooking as well. And I also the freezer, it like feels like a last-stitch effort. Like I really hate reaching for the freezer, but I'm like, I'm tired. I worked all day, or I may not just have it in me, and that's okay. And so giving myself that flexibility to reach for the freezer and cook something or do a little something in between, like it again, rebellion and building that self-trust and prioritizing your own needs while being able to support those around you.

SPEAKER_01 27:48

Yep, yep. And yeah, and I think that the point here is it's this example that you gave ties in with so many things that we've talked about, which is like it, you know, being flexible, being able to take what you need in a specific moment, but also honoring what you want and the kind of identity that you want to build. You are the kind of person that likes to cook meals, that likes to have delicious food, that likes to have, but you are also the kind of person who likes to be well rested and just highlighting the nuance there.

SPEAKER_00 28:23

Absolutely. And it's the reminder that we have so much choice. I think especially when we get into burnout mode, when we are so disconnected from our interests, from who we are and what we want, we forget that we have choice. And it doesn't mean it's easy and it doesn't mean it's immediate. And I want to emphasize it does not mean that there is an immediate right choice right in front of you. But it means that somewhere you have options and you get to explore those options.

SPEAKER_01 28:57

I think that's the beauty of alignment too, is like taking that one next step and then taking the next step and just always kind of connecting it back to the kind of person you want to become or your why. A lot of people talk about their why. If you know it, I think there are a lot of people who are like, well, I don't really have a why. Fair. But I one thing that I think would be just a net gain for humanity is if we could relieve ourselves of this notion that there is a right answer or a right path or a you know right step forward. There isn't. There are like 500,000 for any any given choice that you might have. There are so many like possibilities, right? And there is this, don't spend time trying to find the quote unquote right one. Take a step, see how it goes, collect your data, change tack if you need to, make a different decision if you must, but just move, just get that momentum going. There is no right answer, there is no one right path. And like so many people that I work with, they get stuck between like, I just I need to find like that right thing before I do the this next move. And I'm like, no, you don't, because that's a fallacy, that's not a thing. There is no right thing. Do you think there's not like like one path? That that would be so boring if everybody just had one right path, right? And your job is to find it. No, your job is to go out and to choose your path. That is your job.

SPEAKER_00 30:37

Yeah, there is no right path and there is no right timing. I was reflecting this morning about the importance of consistency. And we wait for this perfect ideal time to be consistent. But if if you can be consistent even on your worst days, imagine how consistent you can be on your best days.

SPEAKER_01 31:00

Yeah. Are you familiar with the concept? I think lots of people have this idea, but like the minimum viable effort for the day.

SPEAKER_00 31:07

No.

SPEAKER_01 31:08

Oh, yeah. So it's like you have a floor. So you have just like, okay, this is it, and it could be any habit, right? It could be posting consistently or it could be checking your budget on a daily basis or whatever. It's like, what one thing, if I, you know, do it on a consistent basis is going to move me towards my goal. And maybe for me, it's okay every day, or maybe it's not every day, maybe it's every week. Every week I post at least one thing and I send one email. And like I could send 10 emails and I could post 30 times. That's great. But as long as I get that one plus one done every week. So the the idea is that these small consistent actions move the needle much, much, much more reliably and over time more quickly than these like bursts of activity, right? And so just coming up with your minimum viable effort for a day, for a week, for whatever it is. And I think that is a really transformative idea in a lot of different ways. Could be for your role as an entrepreneur, could be your health goals, it could be your fitness goals, it could be anything that you want. For me, it's at a very minimum on a daily basis. I'm going to drink water and I'm going to move my body somehow. Like I don't care how it gets done. I don't care if it's walking my dog, just so that it gets done. Right. And over time, that's going to help me become the healthy person that I want to become better than if I get really obsessed with Pilates for two months and then quit doing anything for the rest of the year.

SPEAKER_00 32:47

It goes back to what we said about change. A lot of people put that pressure on themselves to make these big acts of change, to leave the job, to start the business, and to do all of the things in one sweep. Just give yourself like that first step.

SPEAKER_01 33:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:05

And then tomorrow it'll be the next step. And then maybe a couple of months later you can add two steps to it. But giving yourself the flexibility, the grace, the compassion to move through change at your own pace allows for more sustainable growth.

SPEAKER_01 33:24

For sure. If you know for a fact you don't want to be where you are in like a year, you need to do something today. Right. You need to one tiny thing, just one thing. And then again, that builds your trust in yourself. They're like, okay, no, I am actually moving toward this ultimate goal of leaving this job in a year or whatever it is. So cannot overstate the importance of small, small actions.

SPEAKER_00 33:55

And speaking of change, you're in the midst of a rebrand yourself. What is in the future for you?

SPEAKER_01 34:01

Yeah, I'm really excited about my rebrand. I just feel like I have undergone a personality revolution. It's actually really about being more visible and more like the my previous brand brand was very like respectable and buttoned up and all of this. And the new brand is going to be like very there's elements of the woo and there's lots of dramatic color, and there's you know, I swear all the time, and I'm just I'm me. And if people like that, awesome. And if not, that's cool too. But this is who I am, and so there's there's some elements of like just the mystical with the new brand that feels really juicy to me right now. So I'm really excited about it.

SPEAKER_00 34:50

Is there one element that you're more excited about?

SPEAKER_01 34:55

We took, I just took the brand pictures last week, actually, for the website. And she's like, Bring your tarot deck, bring it out. We're gonna take some pictures. So I was like, I got really into that part of it. I was wearing like a very silky, like flowy thing that was very different from like my corporate identity that I stepped out of. But this is who I am, and I'm like just as likely to pull out an Oracle deck in a client session as I am to, you know, assign identity, self-concept formation homework, right? So there are these two elements of my personality. I'm a psychologist and I'm weird, but like putting them together, that's what you get.

SPEAKER_00 35:37

Heck yeah. I so many folks that listen to the show who even I engage with love blending the woo with the practical because honestly, that leaves to a more grounded, aligned like framework when we allow our spirituality, when we allow that energy to guide us and to support our compass. I mean, that's how we continue to get truer and truer to ourselves.

SPEAKER_01 36:05

I believe that now, but it took me a really long time to get there. Because I don't know, I had the perspective for a very long time that the psychology and the woo were like different and like they were never the twain shall meet. But now I understand them to be just different ways of looking at the same thing. Everybody's just trying to understand better, and we have different explanations for the same phenomenon. So I think there's space for both. And I love it when people claim it. And so I'm like, I'm gonna do that.

SPEAKER_00 36:36

Well, I'm so excited to see you claim it. Where can people find you if they want to learn more about you or interested in working with you?

SPEAKER_01 36:44

Sure. Yeah, you can head to my website, which is megtracano.com. I also have a one-on-one intensive program. It's a 45-day kickstart. It's called the Real Change Kickstart. And you can also find that on MegTracano.com. But if people are interested in working with me, they can email me at Meg at Meg Tracano.com.

SPEAKER_00 37:09

Everything will be linked in the show notes. Meg, thank you so much for joining me today. The insights that you offered on change, growth, and visibility, I think, are just gonna really land. And I love the reminder of just giving yourself that space to make those small acts of rebellion can really ripple into larger change.

SPEAKER_01 37:31

Thank you so much for having me. It was so wonderful talking to you.