Suicide Is Not a Bad Word: Building Visibility Around the Conversations We Avoid with Elyce Mandich

Suicide is not a bad word.

But for decades, it has been treated like one.

In this deeply honest and expansive conversation, Jazzmyn sits down with licensed therapist and suicide loss advocate Elyce Mandich to talk about what it means to build visibility around a topic most people avoid.

After losing her mother to suicide at just ten years old, Elyce didn’t immediately set out to specialize in suicide prevention and suicide loss. But over time, her lived experience, clinical training, and post-traumatic growth converged into a mission: to help people talk about suicide without shame — and to remember loved ones as whole humans, not just how they died.

Inside this episode, we explore:

• The difference between suicide prevention and suicide loss support
• How to share vulnerable lived experience ethically on social media
• Navigating self-disclosure as a therapist and business owner
• Why suicide content doesn’t “perform” — and why that shouldn’t stop you
• Rejection in publishing and entrepreneurship (and how to pivot with power)
• Building a legacy beyond trends
• Letting your visibility evolve as you do

This conversation is about more than mental health. It’s about ownership of narrative. It’s about carrying your story without letting it define you. It’s about choosing purpose over popularity.

If you are building something meaningful — even when it doesn’t trend — this episode is your reminder:

You are allowed to speak about what matters to you. You are allowed to pivot.
 You are allowed to expand beyond the box you started in.

And some conversations are worth having, even when the algorithm doesn’t approve.

If you or someone you know has been impacted by suicide—through thoughts of suicide, a suicide attempt, or the loss of a loved one—you don’t have to hold it alone. Support is available right now.

In the U.S., call or text 988 to reach the Suicide & Crisis Lifeline, available 24/7.
 If you’re in immediate danger, call 911 or go to your nearest emergency room.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Are you sitting with thousands of hours of B-roll content and telling yourself, I'll start posting tomorrow? Are you in your head worrying about your friends and family thinking your friends are choosing to be visible? Are you chasing trends instead of building influence? Welcome to the visibility standard, where the visionaries of today are changing the rules of their industries and letting their voice be heard. I'm your host, Jasmine, and we are setting the standard. Hello, everybody. Welcome back to the COD. I am so excited for my guest today. She's in the mental health space, but she is also like really just putting a spotlight on suicide awareness, which is not a conversation that is in the limelight as often and is really bringing a different messaging around it. I have Elise Mandich with me. Thank you so much for joining me today.

SPEAKER_01 0:58

Of course, thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_00 1:01

So just to get us started, tell us about how suicide became a focal point for you and your work.

SPEAKER_01 1:10

Yeah, we're gonna dive right in. I love it. So the long story short, and I'll expand a little bit, is that my mom died by suicide when I was 10. So, you know, I think going into college and all of that, I I definitely knew, even like going into like what my interests were, that like that loss and that experience with her probably played a role in what I was going to do. But, you know, being 18, going into college, I was like, oh, I just want to help people, right? That's just like we find ourselves in like the helping field. But it really wasn't until because I worked for after I got out of grad school, I worked for child welfare services or like CPS. Then I did school social work and then I came into private practice. And it really wasn't until school social work that like I really started like feeling almost like protective of like suicide prevention. I was like, I want to do the trainings. Like I just felt like this is like my thing. I really enjoy it. So I got to help our district develop their like policy and protocols around suicide. I became the the go-to person to consult with and train the other mental health professionals in the district. So that's like how it kind of evolved. And the more obviously I got into it, the more I was like, oh, this is like my this is my mom's stuff coming up in like a not even like a protective way. I think it's just like the post-traumatic growth part of the loss where I'm like, you know, is it ideal? No, but like it is what it is, and it's all really grateful because like you said, it's people don't necessarily love talking about it. And I'm like, I can talk about it like what I had for dinner last night. Like it's just feels warm and comforting in a way.

SPEAKER_00 2:56

Yeah, it is a conversation that I still feel like media tries to address, and sometimes they get it right, sometimes they get it wrong, but they try to include it in storylines, even within like the mental health space or even in like conversations, there's still such a stigma around it, and especially as we're trying to change the language around it from commit to completing and then taking away that moral standard that comes with the word commit. What has it been like for you to choose to share that with social media?

SPEAKER_01 3:44

You know, when I started social media, this is gonna be like a fun full circle as we go through this episode. Is my social media started off as like a book idea back in 2020? I just had my second baby, COVID happened, you know, I was working from home and it was kind of this like creative outlet. And then it obviously has evolved. I never planned to be in private practice. That was never part of the plan. And it's because of social media, like why I am where I'm at. But also in that process, I started like pivoting. I was connecting with more therapists, and I'm like, oh, I actually want to represent more of like who I am, and started sharing more, just kind of from the place of me being a social worker, just like in the field. And because I wasn't working with clients, it felt like this kind of like free space, right? I didn't really have to like worry about what I was like sharing. You know, I was really like this is my professional setting over here, working in schools. And then this is kind of this like other professional version of me I get to share, but like bringing in self-disclosure was like a really interesting, but it's been really great. Like I find, especially now that being in private practice where a lot of like my clients are people who have lost somebody to suicide. The reason they seek me out is because they're looking for a therapist that specializes in that for one, but then secondary to that, it's like, oh, and you have the lived experience. No, I find especially with just with that topic, like that is something that people often are looking for. Is I want somebody that kind of gets it, you know. And I was a kid, it was a very different experience than many of the people I'm working with who lost like a partner or a child or lost somebody as an adult. Like that's a different experience than what I had, but I still think there's some like relatability piece to that. And I mean, honestly, over the last five-ish years that I've shared, I've had really nothing but like positive responses about that piece. I've, you know, I've gotten criticism in other areas that like it's never been that. And I think, you know, I continue, and this is what I would say to anybody, is like almost like you have to do your work before putting that kind of stuff out there. And I think the work is like evolving and always kind of coming, but I know enough about suicide prevention and what to share, what not to share in a way that like I want to honor my mom, but also not glorify suicide. We're not talking about the way that she died by suicide on social media. I've had that conversation like in trainings with mental health professionals, but I don't talk about that with, you know, in the context of that. Yeah. And that's just like being like, how do we share this kind of stuff safely? Which kind of coming back to the way that you talk about the media is where media sometimes gets it wrong, right? Like we don't need to know the details of like how somebody did it. That's usually coming from a place of like curiosity and it's not actually helpful.

SPEAKER_00 6:37

Yeah. I love that you spoke to the market or even like the referral aspect of social media. A lot of times, like we have psychology today, that doesn't speak directly to the problem. And so when therapists are like, what is the benefit of social media? Well, A, your content gets to speak directly to a specific focus that you have, a specific problem that you solve. And like it allows people to understand you as a clinician a little different. It offers a different perspective. I oftentimes hear, like when therapists are thinking about creating their social media, like navigating that self-disclosure piece, navigating like how much is too much? When does it become about me and not about the work? How have you been able to navigate like the self-disclosure and how you've created the social media presence that you do have?

SPEAKER_01 7:39

Yeah. I think again, it's evolved, and there's times I definitely look back and I'm like, ooh, that I shared a lot. And I probably wouldn't share that today, right? And it's just like a little trial and error. But I also think what I used to share again when I was working in schools, and this wasn't like a business yet. It was just like an outlet, professional outlet. When it evolved to a business, I think my mentality and my mindset kind of really became if a client sees this, you know, how it can I like back that or if I need to talk about that in session. And so I feel like I used to share a little bit more about like having a hard day before to really normalize that. And now I'm a little bit more like, hey, I got a client, like a dang of clients tomorrow. And like I don't want them coming into the session worried about like what I have going on. So like if I share, it's like snippets that I still want to bring the humanity of like this isn't just a highlight reel. And also, like, I don't need my clients taking care of me. I don't need them worrying about me in the way that they have to take care of me. So like I have have had clients check in and be like, I think you're a post yesterday. Like, you know, are you okay? And I'm like, totally good. Thanks for checking in. And then we just go back to them, right? But I feel like it just like evolves. And I just, you know, CPS kind of like starred me in a way of like almost always putting things in perspective of like, if this ends up in front of the judge, can you back what you did? And I constantly try to like keep that in mind, even with social media. Like, uh, so yeah, I think just being like very thoughtful and intentional about what I'm posting, and but it ends, I think, like a beautiful balance when you finally start to see, like, oh yeah, that gets this way of representing who I am. And I think over time I'm like a forever recovering people pleaser, but have gotten more comfortable with like, well, if that's not for them, that's okay. Like people find me, and most of my clients find me through social media, and it's like just tapping on what you said, so nice because then I feel like they already have like a feel for who I am, how I democ, and that's what they're looking for, as opposed to if somebody finds me through like Google, they're signed like in a consultation. I'm like, I don't know, like we sound like a very a good thing. So it's been, I mean, I would say mostly just a positive experience in a positive place, but it's just always a you know, I think we're still figuring out ethics around what it looked like to be a social media. I think there's a lot of like criticism at times. So I just stay away from Facebook groups and you know, do my thing.

SPEAKER_00 10:10

I am also not in the Facebook groups. I'm I'm good over there. I'm good. Y'all, y'all keep talking. But it's it sounds like it's been a journey of like building self-trust too, like not only as a person and sharing your story, but also as a business owner.

SPEAKER_01 10:31

Yeah, yes, because I never again, I never and I say this to like especially therapists, hear this stuff. Like, I never ever planned on owning a business. I never saw myself doing what I'm doing. I really kind of grew up in a way where like my parents have played it safe, right? Like, I'd rather have my like job with a reliable paycheck and my benefits. So, like taking risks was never really a part of what I like witnessed in that sense and wasn't always something I was interested in doing. But I'm so grateful and now I'm like the biggest proponent. I'm over here, like, you know, encouraging even my dad. I'm like, oh, let's start a business for you, let's take some risks. Like, because you get to see the payoff, and it comes with a ton of rejection and downsides too. But I think you just start to care a little bit less because you see that there's also a lot of benefits and rewards to it.

SPEAKER_00 11:25

And social media has really given us permission to show like therapists are like business owners. And so we get to expand beyond like the clinical space, and we also get to want that for ourselves because it actually it I think of it as burnout prevention, right? I think about yes, we give so much to our clients, we have to be giving that much to ourselves as well, and that includes professional opportunities, opportunities to expand. And so social media has just really allowed us to highlight the business savviness that a lot of us have that we A didn't learn in grad school and B didn't recognize would be like such a big component of building out a private practice.

SPEAKER_01 12:11

100%. And it's such a this is not evidence-based by any means, but I got I've got a little bit into like human design. Have you heard of design? Okay, and like learning a little bit about like what works for me and a lot of my stuff makes sense of like I'm not a nine to five girl. I like to have my hands in a lot of different things, and so I feel like it's been like really fun. Like to just like I did a podcast a few years ago, like just okay, that nope, take a break from that, try something different, you know, dipping my feet now into the book thing, like really just allowing myself different ways of of showing up that are like, yeah, just not the typical, like, okay, let me just meet with my clients, you know, this and that. Now I save space in my week to do other things too, because that is like the burnout prevention. And it just also fills like a different part of my cup, you know.

SPEAKER_00 13:06

You knew I was gonna segue into the book through reading my mind. Yeah, you mentioned your Instagram was originally a book deal and you've been in the process of writing. Yeah, what has that journey been like going, you know, from clinical work to also being a parent and then finding that space and ritual to be able to sit down and write? The short answer is it's chaos.

SPEAKER_01 13:34

The the longer answer is yeah, like what initially started as like a book idea. I used to sit with, I have a sister-in-law who's published like a book on poetry. So we used to sit down in like 2020. I'd get up early in the morning or stay up late, and she'd meet with me virtually, you know, like between nursing sessions and between work, and we would chat about my ideas. And then things as it evolved again, my social media into like, okay, I'm gonna be more like a representation of myself. And then it really was like that almost that put just like on pause, not even like in a this isn't gonna happen, but just I don't know how to make this happen. I kind of used aspects of it in my life because it has to do with connecting with other people. And then maybe a year ago, well, I would say in the last few years of even having social media, I've had some publishers reach out to me, like asking if I've ever had an interest in writing a book and have never been prepared. Some of those, I'd have a meeting, and you know, now I know how those meetings go in the sense of they're really looking for you to have like a pretty solid idea of what that looked like. And I'm like, no, but like, you know, just kind of chatting it up. But last year I had somebody like a pretty reputable publishing company reach out and I wrote up a proposal and got rejected. And that, like, again, I say this very humbly. I am very like disciplined when I put my mind to something, like I really put in a effort. And so through school, like I usually like get it. So this was like one of my first big experiences of like rejection, and it was a little like ego hit, you know. And I was like, Okay, so I just kind of put that on pause. And it continued to be something of like interest of like, I do want to do this, but when? And it's like, you know, constantly that balance of I also want to be really present for my kids. And that's why I went into private practice was to like have that. So maybe now's not the time, and that's okay. Like, and then this year I was approached by another publishing company, shared my initial idea from last year, and they shared why they wanted to maybe go a different direction with it. And the direction that they were encouraging was actually it's like another book idea I had, but it would be like more so it wasn't my first choice. And like reflecting on it, the reason it wasn't my first choice is because it didn't come as easy. It was a little bit more like I'd have to include how I feel and a little bit more vulnerable. And so I ended up writing a full proposal on that, and now I'm in the process of finding the right publisher for this. So I have a literary agent, and hopefully by the time this comes out, I have an update. But it's been, it's been challenging. There have been times where I'm sitting down trying to knock out these chapters and the chapter samples and really diving in that I'm just like, say I love you to my kids, give them hugs and kisses, and I'm like, go see daddy. And so it's just like this kind of balance. But it's also been really sweet, especially my oldest. He's eight, he understands he knows how my mom died. So he knows kind of like what the topic of this book is. And it's been so sweet to watch even like him get it, like and understand the hard work going into it, even if it's you know, at the cost of being a little, I don't want to say absent because that doesn't feel right, but you know, being a little more focused on this right now. Um so it's been sweet because I want them to see mom as like a balance of all of the things and wearing a lot of different hats. Like I'm your mom first and foremost, and I will do anything and drop anything to be here for you. And also like this is really important to me and for them to see that side.

SPEAKER_00 17:19

I'm so grateful that you shared about the rejection piece because content is such a new space, it's an evolving space, and allowing ourselves to go in really different avenues. We already technically crushed grad school and we're therapists and we're perceived as the expert in the room on something really specific. And then we are actively like choosing to go out and expand our horizon and, like you said, take those risks and and those avenues we're still very much learning. We're figuring it out, and it's really scary sometimes. It's really exciting, but it's really scary sometimes.

SPEAKER_01 18:00

It is, and I will say on that note too, it's like why I appreciate, you know, I think it's important for whether you're a therapist or just somebody else, like in trying to figure things out, is like finding a network of people who don't gatekeep. Like, I'm like, I have my friends who I'm like, they're the reasons why I started practice, or I have these people who are like, I'm happy to share about this stuff. And I therapist friends who I've paid for their time. It's not like, oh, I need everybody to give this to me for free, but just people who are really like wanting to see you succeed and it doesn't feel like a threat. Like that, those are the people I find myself just so grateful for because especially even the book world, like first it was a therapy world, like what? What's an S-corp? What's a LLC versus a professional corporation? And how do I and then that starts to become like your language, and now the book stuff I'm like, what's the difference between a literary agent and an acquisition editor? And like, you know, it's just all this confusing language, and then it just starts to become the norm. But I find like anything approaching stuff with just a lot of humility like goes a long way, like it's okay to not know. And yeah, the rejection, I even got rejected by a literary agent in like such a cold way. It was very like, I think it was like, thanks for sharing, it's a no for me. And I was like, Okay, cool, cool. Like, do you hate it? Do you hate me? Like, I was so and it was so cold and like brutal that it was all like I do, I still like laugh, but like it and then I just pivot and then you go to the next thing, you know? So just gotta be part of the game.

SPEAKER_00 19:41

But like you said, when we don't gatekeep, when we like truly are wanting to see support one another to see each other win, and that the knowledge that I have, like, why wouldn't I want to give it to you? And and like you said, there's moments where you invest in that time and and want to get like a specific outcome out of that time. And it's such a gift when you're able to text friends and say, like, hey, let me, can I run this thought by you? Like, or they're asking you vice versa, like, hey, I have this thing, can you look at it and give some insight? It allows the process to it's so interesting. We go into private practice to kind of work for ourselves, and then we over time build like these people that are our console group, our network, and they're people that we work with. They feel like co-workers, yes, and it makes the work feel less lonely.

SPEAKER_01 20:38

Yeah, I don't know if you got that too, but when I went, because I I have an in-person office now, but that's new and it's only one day a week. I'm mostly virtual. And I remember people being like, Aren't you so worried about like feeling lonely? And I'm like, honestly, no, because so much it does. You're the first person I talk to that's described it the way that I view it. It's like, no, all these connections and people I have, whether it's just through social media or I have their actual number, but it is like this little cohort of coworkers. It just, you know, we're we're placed in different locations, but they're inaccessible. Like I feel like I'm in the room with them. Like it's really, really helpful.

SPEAKER_00 21:15

Feels present. I'm like, okay, I can run this by them. And if I need a laugh, I can call one of them, like do the water cooler talk. But it's like your chosen coworkers, these are people that if you have chosen to stick close by. And it definitely like has felt that way for me. And people ask, like, oh, do you get bored during the week? I'm like, no, I get to talk to great people on the podcast, or I get to FaceTime a friend in the middle of the day and have a conversation, or I'm working on building something else. Like, there's so much more flexibility and opportunities to add joy to the day that I don't miss working in a place that structured my time uh so specifically. Specifically.

SPEAKER_01 22:01

Yeah. That is like, I don't know if you feel that way, but I'm like all of the benefits and retirement and all of that are like sometimes really shiny. Like I'm like so nice to not have to like, you know, have to take care of on my own. But man, that ability of like, no, I get to create my schedule. And like when I'm mad at anybody, I'm mad at myself because I did this to myself. You know, like, why did you schedule eight back-to-back sessions? Like, but it is nice to be like, you know what? No, I actually, you know, want to be on a podcast today. So I'm just gonna schedule this time, or I'm gonna go schedule time to go take my kids somewhere today. So just having control of your time is so nice.

SPEAKER_00 22:43

Yeah. What do you hope for the readers to take away from your book if you can share?

SPEAKER_01 22:51

So the book is on suicide loss, so it's very niche. But I think my biggest takeaway is I think this idea of being able to carry this person that you've lost by suicide with you in a way that's like integrated into your life and remembering then has like the whole person that they were, not just how they died. And I and I find, right, because this becomes so much of the narrative, and and part of this isn't like branding, but take away my like niche as a person. I felt like for a while when I was young, even in school, it was like, oh, I'm the girl whose mom killed herself. And I don't want to just be bad, and I don't want my mom to be just known as the person that killed herself. Like, I want there to be more to that. And so much of the book is really like, how do we do that? How do we carry this person and remember more about their life and not just the way that they died? And really helping people like to cope through that because it's not just typical grief. Like you're looking at grief combined with like complete trauma with a lot of unanswered questions and a lot of uncertainty. And so, really, that's just my hope is to give kind of this perspective from both the clinical aspect of like I work with people who've lost someone to suicide, I've worked with suicidal people, and also I'm somebody that's like lived through this kind of loss, and to give all perspectives because a lot of what exists out there is like lived experience, which is so important, but it's missing clinical aspects or it's not trauma-informed, and it's just right, like having the lens that I have, that's my hope is that it can blend all of this together.

SPEAKER_00 24:34

Yeah, it is it's offering a fuller picture. Yeah, like you said, sometimes we get lived experience, and then media offers details that take away from sometimes the educational aspects that can come from scenes that involve suicide. But you are offering like a fuller nuanced perspective way of understanding it, whether you lived it, whether you know someone who is struggling with it, but being able to take practical knowledge as well as like lived experience away with the book.

SPEAKER_01 25:10

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 25:12

That I mean, when we think about visibility, when we think about putting things in the limelight, it is uncovering, it's destigmatizing the conversations that we're not always having or the conversations that we sometimes limit to very specific situations or only talk about it when it happens. Yeah. But part of destigmatizing something is talking about it. Part of destigmatizing it is offering the tools and the knowledge so that everyone can have a more robust conversation around something.

SPEAKER_01 25:52

Yeah, yeah. And I do it's just funny you say that because like this is definitely like my little like, you know, streak that I've carved down to be like, this is my thing. It is not the popular road to take. Like it's not, and I and it is funny because I find and I really maximize my time and the space in September because that's when people really pay attention. And then outside of September, unless it's happening to them, it's really not the thing that feels the most important and that's okay. But is to like plant these seeds that like people know where they can go. And it's the same kind of concept I bring even into my practice. Like when I'm sitting with a new client, when I'm basically doing the intake and I'm exploring whether or not they've ever struggled with suicidality, I really give them just like a spiel of how I view and understand it so that should it ever come up for them, they know exactly, you know, what to expect and like and how I view it so that they're not afraid to talk about it. Because again, I it's almost like that doesn't apply to me. So like it's not relevant until it is, you know. And I my hope is that through these little ways that we like plant these seeds, that they have something as like a foundation should it become something relevant in their life. And if not, fantastic. Would love for people to feel this way, would love for people not to lose someone this way. But unfortunately, I continue to have people reaching out who have lost someone. So like it is just the reality of what we're dealing with and trying to help people feel prepared as the right way, but at least have enough to know where to go. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:25

It is, it sounds like it's been an opportunity for you two to take ownership of the narrative in a very different way. Ownership of your own story, even ownership of your mom's story, and have blended it into your work and your mission. And that's such a beautiful way to honor your mom.

SPEAKER_01 27:49

Yeah. And again, I think like this wasn't intentional and it just continues to evolve in that way. But I find it does, it keeps me like so connected and rooted, and I feel so like grateful. Again, awful. Would have never would love to have never experienced this, right? Like little be would love to just still have mom here, given the cards I was dealt. Like, yeah, I'm like, if I can, you know, help prevent it in any way and give people like a space, amazing. I mean, even just like not even my own stuff, just like uplifting, but like sharing other resources of things that already exist. I don't have to always reinvent the wheel. So, like, for example, people sometimes reach out, like, can you do training for mental health professionals? What about kind of the everyday person? And I used to, but I didn't get enough interest. And I'm like, and there's$20 QPR trainings that are literally for that. Somebody's already done that, and it's like evidence-based, here's where you can go. So just pushing people in the right direction, sharing resources that already exist. But I think we're getting better at it. There's still stigma, it's definitely not what it was. And I'm so for that. The time frame my mom died in the 90s, it was very different time, just with the messaging around it. So, yeah, that is my hope is that we can talk about it, you know, my trainings, the pitch of my book name, which I'm sure will change because that's what happens in the world of publishing. But it's suicide is not a bad word. And that's like my hope is that people really start to just be able to talk about it like it's not, you know, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:24

Releasing some of the shame around it, the the taboo-ness of it. And you're right, it's not where it was. And the hope is that when we continue to have these conversations, when we continue to offer perspective, support, and resources that we're able to equip folks to talk about, whether they're struggling with it, they know someone that's struggling with it, and they know where to go when they are experiencing any level of it. Absolutely. What is your vision for your social media, for your presence in the world?

SPEAKER_01 30:07

Honestly, I'm so type A and such a control freak in ways that like I think I'm learning to just like trust that it's gonna keep changing. Uh so even like last year when that when I got rejected from the first publishing company, some of the constructive feedback was like, your social media is like not very niche to that topic. Like, and a lot of it is like that content doesn't do very well. Like, I I don't know if I've necessarily got shadow banned, but like the algorithm definitely is like, we're not pushing this. And I get it, if it needs the word suicide, it may not understand what it is. So like I'm not always doing my account as a whole a favor by talking about it. I think that I've tried to find now ways of like, but that is like the reality of what I want. And granted, it's a balance because I don't in my practice, if somebody's like actively suicidal, that is not my ideal client. That's not who I'm typically working with. I'm primarily virtual, you know, I'm once a week therapy or every other. This is not, I'm not a crisis support, but I want to help mental health professionals to know how to handle these crises. And I also want to help people who have experienced suicide loss. So like I'm leaning more into the suicide loss aspect, which there isn't a ton of people in that lane. There's a lot of people, not even a lot, but there's a niche for people in suicide prevention. And now I'm like still there, but I'm also dipping my toes more into the suicide loss days. Yeah. But I really just see it as continuing to evolve. Like, should I get a book deal, then like that will continue to be like part of that. But even like recently, I changed my handle name from my practice, the therapy co back to just like my first and last name. And kind of like really landing on like this is a representation of like me as a professional and all the things that I encompass, whether that's a book, a training, my practice, or who knows what else, my merch stuff, whatever I end up doing. And I'm just kind of trusting that and letting it be, you know, a little messy. So I guess I don't fully know, but I'm excited to find out myself.

SPEAKER_00 32:17

We'll see. I feel like that is the biggest lesson for anyone in social media who makes content and who's typically likes to know what's what the outcome of something is, what something looks like is that it will change, let it go, let it be free, just create and everything else will fall into place the way it's meant to.

SPEAKER_01 32:43

And it is true. Like I used to be so worried of, I mean, I literally made the joke I think of my handle name has changed like five or six times in the last five years. And even my business name was something different. I it was used to be big empathy therapy, which I was like, this is so catchy because it's when like you know, big, you know what, energy came out, big empathy energy, like it was such a play on words. And I was like, that's like not that it's not sustainable, it's just not it the play on words is gonna go away. Like that's like some, you know. So it's just I'm just constantly now like this is what it is for now, but you know, as I do more things, I'm like, oh, like how can I create longevity around this or sustainability around this? But yeah, I think it is that is truly the best, what you just said lesson. And I wish I would have heard more of that of just do and just know that it's gonna change. Don't mold yourself, like you need that goals and like set around that, but don't set yourself like so firm in this like black and white way that you can't pivot. Don't be rigid with like your outcomes.

SPEAKER_00 33:43

And that is uh such a perfect note to end on is the longevity versus the trends. Like, I've also changed the name, I've changed the name of the podcast, the business, all of it, the handles. Uh, because trends are what get clicks, they what get attention. And then as you do it longer and you realize how much time, energy, and effort goes into it, it's like, okay, what am I building? What is the legacy that I am trying to leave? And when that perspective starts to shift, it the trends will always be there, but it it becomes less about what's catchiest and and what is going to resonate with you as the creator.

SPEAKER_01 34:28

Yeah, yeah. And I really like I made up this post yesterday on Drew Springsteen on the new movie that came out. And again, very niche. Like, I love Drew Springsteen, he's a connection to my mom. It's a beautiful movie. And I was like, this is literally five people, but like there's something here that's so powerful. Like, I this is making this who if it resonates with someone cool, but I don't want a place that this lands, and sure enough, like it is my engagement, is so low on it, and I'm like, I don't care. And then guess what I'm like, I'll probably do something trendy and it'll probably do well. And it's just like constantly balancing, like, you know, and yeah, because you want visibility, and I get that, and that is what helps to, you know, run your business as well. But yeah, I think it's just finding and being rounded and what you put out, you know. I know this isn't specific to like, you know, everybody on here listening to this is like making content, but finding your own way of doing these trends or finding like yourself in it, not copying people, just like yeah, just finding your own lane in all of it.

SPEAKER_02 35:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:35

Elise, this was such an amazing conversation. Thank you so much for joining me today. For having me.