I Didn't Want Another Label: Rachel Havekost on Getting Sober, Grieving Out Loud, and Choosing Visibility Anyway

What happens when visibility starts to feel like a cage?

In this powerful episode of The Visibility Standard, Jazz sits down with author, mental health advocate, and content creator Rachel Havekost for a deeply honest conversation about what it's really like to build a public platform — and then live inside of it.

Rachel takes us back to January 2020: freshly separated, unemployed, and starting completely from scratch. With nothing to lose, she launched her blog, shifted her Instagram, and downloaded TikTok on a whim. What followed was a groundswell of connection during one of the most isolating seasons in modern history — and a visibility journey that's been anything but linear.

In this episode, Jazz and Rachel explore:

• Why visibility gets harder as your audience grows — not easier
• The creative stifling that comes with more eyes on your work
• How public storytelling became a pathway to personal ownership
• The grief of divorce — and why grieving someone who's still alive can feel more isolating than loss through death
• Rachel's second book Look Up: A Guide for Navigating Life's Uncertainty and Finding Your Horizon — and the burnout that almost prevented it from being written
• Her decision to share her sobriety journey publicly — the shame, the labels she didn't want, and the accountability she needed
• What actually changed when she got sober (and what stayed exactly the same)
• How to start being visible when you're terrified of being perceived

Rachel's perspective on visibility is one you won't hear anywhere else — grounded in six years of real-world experience, therapy, self-forgiveness, and the ongoing practice of owning who you are without apology.

Whether you're just starting to share your story or you've been in the content game for years and feel like you've lost your voice, this episode is a reminder:

 the ebbs are part of it. Dry ground always comes.

Transcript

Rachel Havekost and Jazzmyn Proctor

[00:00:00]

Jazz: I'm so excited for my guest today on the visibility standard. I have been following her journey on social media way back when she was dancing, until she found her voice, her confidence. Very early follower. And so I'm so excited to be able to have a conversation about her visibility, her latest book, uh, and what it's been like to navigate being visible, visible by sharing her story.

Rachel Havekost, thank you so much for joining me today. 

Rachel Havekost: Thank you so much for having me, Jazzmyn I'm really happy to be here. Happy.

Jazz: So take us way back, I mean, early TikTok, where you were building your page and, and building your voice. 

Rachel Havekost: Back in 2019, I was going through the very early stages of a divorce [00:01:00] and prior to that, my ex-husband and I had sold all of our belongings and done like a 10 month motorcycle trip through, Latin America. So while I was like in the sort of the process of figuring out like if I was gonna be married in the next year or not, I also was trying to figure out where I was gonna live and what I was gonna do for work because we had both quit our jobs and sold everything.

So I was really, really, really starting from scratch. And I had always wanted to write a book about my eating disorder. Because when I was diagnosed in two, 2005, there were not that many stories out there about folks with eating disorders. Social media did not exist, and people were not talking about mental health, and they were definitely not talking about eating disorders.

And so I just, I remember feeling really alone. And so after many, many years and going through, through treatment and really wanting to find a way to, , like pay it forward from. The support I'd received in, in therapy, I thought that using sort of like my background of, of the arts and [00:02:00] storytelling could be a way for me to share my story and fill some kind of gaps that there could be at least one more story in the world for young, um, young women to read about if they were struggling with, with an eating disorder.

Mm-hmm. Or anything related. So. Anyways, fast forward to end of 2019. My ex-husband and I are about to get a divorce. I have literally nothing to lose, and I just thought to myself, you know what? Fuck it like this is, this is the time. Like if I ever had time to write a book and start sharing my story, it would be now.

So January 1st, 2020, I launched my blog. I changed all of my Instagram content from just like photos of whatever I was doing to being more related to mental health and my experiences with mental illness. And I downloaded TikTok because I just thought, what, I'll try this out too. And I had no idea what I was doing.

Like I did not know how to use the app. I was like, classic, like chuy, millennial, like just really, it was ridiculous. But anyway, so then COVID happened and everybody was online, myself included. And um. People were really, really [00:03:00] struggling and I think for the first time really had to like, sit with a lot of their emotions and their thoughts and not have the distractions of day-to-day life.

But also like being disconnected socially can be really, really hard on our mental health. Um, so I think a lot of people were, were really struggling and looking for something online to help them feel less alone. So unfortunately my timing was good because, um, people were looking for that kind of content.

Uh, so my TikTok started to, um, you know, hit a lot of the right, um, spaces and people were really resonating and, um. It just kind of evolved from there. I wrote my book. I kept using social media as a way for me to advocate destigmatize dance. I did, I used to do a lot of dancing, as you know. Um, and it's been almost six years now, which is crazy.

Jazz: Yeah. Yeah. It was one of the first profiles that I recognized that was blending. Mental health storytelling and more trendier [00:04:00] styles of content and that storytelling aspect that so many people were craving, especially during the pandemic. And now, like you said, six years later, you're on your second book, you are still using social media as a means to advocate and de-stigmatize.

What is it like to still be visible for you? 

Rachel Havekost: It's honestly really hard. It's a lot harder now than it was when I started, and I think there's several reasons for that. I think the first one being when I started, nobody knew my face, so there were, in some ways it was less. Risky because I could put out a flop or something that didn't hit, and my ego did not care because I was, I wasn't, it's not like I, anyone was really paying attention to what I was doing anyways.

So anytime I did really well or was, or felt like I was succeeding, I, I was really just seeing my wins. I wasn't seeing my losses. And I think now that I've experienced a lot of success, I, my brain has started to see losses more than it sees wins. Um, and, and. As well, like I feel like there are [00:05:00] more eyes on me, so I have started to filter myself more, whereas I don't think I was filtering myself as much when I first started.

Um, and now I feel like I have a, a much bigger responsibility to be really mindful and careful with my language, with my content. Um, and, and so I think in a lot of ways that. I think that's, I think that's really good. And I think in a lot of ways it has stifled me sometimes creatively because, um, I get really anxious about what people are gonna think because now there's a lot of people that see what I, what I put out there and what I, what I write about and what I talk about.

And it's my personal life. It's pretty vulnerable. And I, I made a, I made a conscious choice. When I started using social media, um, to give that part of my, my life, my privacy up, like I knew that's what I was doing and I really sat with that for a while. Um, and I understood the risks. I understood, you know, what I was consenting to in terms of, um, not having a lot of privacy when sharing those kinds of things.

Um, and. In, in many ways I'm comfortable with it, but there are times where I really, I just long for a life outside of social media where nobody knows who I am or what I'm [00:06:00] doing. And that's not like a lot of people know who I am, but in the sense of like, I'm not constantly sharing like the, the darkest, hardest parts of, you know, of my life online.

Um, and I also have noticed, and this is like a really positive thing in the last several years. So many people are talking about mental health, like mm-hmm. You open up social media and it's just like, this is what my therapist said to me. This is what it means if you have an avoided attachment style.

Here's how I'm healing my trauma. Like it is everywhere. And I, I think that's so fantastic. And so a part of me also feels like, like I. My job's done. Like, you know, like I set out my mission was, um, to help one person feel less alone and to create safe spaces online where people could feel like they could talk about their mental health.

And I feel like that is happening in tenfold. Mm-hmm. And not that like, not that that's because of me, but I feel like if that's what I wanted to happen and it's happening, that's fantastic. Um, so I think also in some ways I feel like. Um, there are so many other people who have incredible stories to share and incredible wisdom to share.

Um, and so I think that [00:07:00] that has also a created some like comparison in my mind around like, do I, like who am I to even keep talking anymore? Like, do I even need to share my story? Like, I've sort of done it, but also, um, I think there's a lot of, a lot of space to share and it's, um, it's not all mine. So 

Jazz: yeah.

I. Appreciate your transparency in discussing the journey of visibility. I think especially in today's like content space, people are really excited to have so many eyes on them and excited to share their story publicly. And the trade off to that is you recognize the losses. There is a lot more feedback that's coming in when you're sharing your personal story.

There is a level of creativity. Sometimes I think people think it will amplify it the more engagement they get. But it can stifle it too because it's like, I really need to be thoughtful. I have this many people watching me. I need to be thoughtful of what I'm saying, what I'm [00:08:00] sharing, what the messaging is that I wanna get out there.

And so I love that you talk about the duality that does exist when creating content publicly. Yeah. So you are on your second book, look Up mm-hmm. A Guide for Navigating Life's Uncertainty and Finding Your Horizon. What was the inspiration behind this book? 

Rachel Havekost: So, um, after I wrote my memoir, uh, in 2021, I was super, super depressed and burned out.

I think, um, writing that book was really hard. I had to go back. To like my childhood and sort of like relive and look through parts of my life that I did not wanna revisit parts of my life that were in like, beautiful parts of my life that then created sort of like a nostalgic grief of how things used to be.

Um, I had to relive like my marriage and falling in love and then getting divorced. So it just, it, it really a, like stalled my grief. Um, and I think it, it just was an exhausting process. So I, I took a lot of time off of writing after that. To, um, to grieve and to do a lot of work in [00:09:00] therapy. Um, and just let myself sort of take a pause from some of that really intense writing.

And during that time I had kind of, I had started to think about writing a book of poetry. Uh, I really liked writing, like short form, um, sort of more like hopeful, inspirational, like gentle reminders, mantras, the kind of thing that like if I was sort of in that period that I had been in. Like an, like a post-it, I could have grabbed and been like, okay, I can hold onto this for the day.

Um, especially because at that time, my attention span was like zero. Um, so if you'd given me a book on trauma or healing, I would've not, I would've barely gotten through a page. But small reminders were something I could digest, and so I wanted to, I wanted to create that, um, for someone who was possibly in that same, uh, mental or physical space, but I was not.

At that time, able to produce anything. I was just, was too, I was too tired and burned out. Um, and so it was really just an idea and then. Last, I think it was about a year ago, last summer, um, I went to a mental health summit, um, in Chicago and met some brilliant [00:10:00] creators. Um, and one of them is also a writer, so we were kind of like sharing or like writing woes and dah, dah, dah, dah.

And he was asking me if there was a book I was working on. I was like, well, I've been thinking about this book of poetry, but I really don't know. I was like making a lot of excuses. I was like, I really don't know if I should self-publish or if I try to find a publisher. Um, and he was like, well, why don't, why don't I introduce you to my publisher so that you can like have somebody to support you and you can just get started?

Mm-hmm. And I was like. A thank you. Wow, that's amazing. But b crap, now I have to, now I have to start writing shit. Like this is the accountability that I needed but did not wanna ask for. Um, but I am so, I'm so grateful to him because that did get me to start writing. 'cause then there was like buyer under my ass.

Like there was someone who was gonna read my work and decide if it was good enough to be published. And uh, and I started writing. Um, so I started writing last, last summer and, uh, finished the book in December and it just got published this June. Um, so it's, it's short little, I have like a copy here. Hang on.

Lemme see. Um, so it's short, little, just like gentle reminders to kind of, um, pick up at any point. And you can open to any page and there'll be [00:11:00] something in there, but it's. Divided into sections, and I'm, I'm like very anal and methodical when it comes to writing. So there is sort of like a through line that has like a beginning until end.

Um, so if you read it from the beginning to end that you'll feel this arc that kind of starts with, um, you know, being in a place where you feel stuck, unable to move forward, unable to let go of the past, um, and sort of, you know, being able to honor that tension and then. Moving through, letting go, um, in the process of letting go, feeling incredibly lost once we let go of what's behind us.

Um, and then starting to like really discover ourselves again and who we are, and then letting ourselves kind of come back into the world, experiencing all of the doubt that happens when we finally like reemerge. Um, and then kind of coming to a place of like deep acceptance of like, okay, this is it. This is the mess that I've chosen and I'm gonna keep moving forward.

Um, so that's, yeah, that's the lookup.

Jazz: What events in your life would you say were the biggest inspiration for this book? 

Rachel Havekost: Getting divorced for sure. Um, I think there's a lot of grief and love, um, and. Um, and loneliness in this book that, uh, I [00:12:00] felt immensely going through my divorce. And I have, um, you know, I've lost people in my life.

Um, people, you know, I love have died and I've experienced grief, you know, when someone has passed. But I have never experienced this kind of grief before. And it was utterly perplexing to me that that grieving someone who was alive could feel as painful as grieving someone who was dead. And this is gonna sound so morbid, but there were so many times where I wished that he had died because it would've been easier if he was gone.

Mm-hmm. At least, at least it would've been concrete. But to know that, that he was still out there in the world, but that he was no longer, mine was in some ways a lot harder to navigate. It was a lot harder for me to, to get closure and to move forward. Um. And accept that we were not, you know, that we were no longer a partnership, that he was not in my life anymore.

That this person that I had imagined a future with was not gonna be in my future. Um, there was just so much nuance and gray, um, and it was also really lonely. Like, you know, when somebody, when somebody dies, we have a funeral or a ceremony. We [00:13:00] gather together to remember them, to talk about them on birthdays.

We call each other to say, Hey, are you thinking about so and so? Me too. We sh like, you know, that that person's life lives on in community. I mean, that doesn't happen when you, when you get divorced, um, or when you have a, you know, a breakup. And so I felt very alone, um, in my grief. And like I wasn't allowed, um, to mourn him or remember him out loud.

It felt taboo or like shameful, um, to miss somebody that I. Was not in a, in a marriage with anymore. Um, so I think that really instilled in me a desire to create some kind of space for people to grieve who felt like they were grieving alone. And, um, and also just some, you know, some permission to grieve when we feel like we're not allowed to.

Because I also, I remember like when I was. I think I was 18, um, my high school sweetheart died, and I did not, I remember feeling like I wasn't allowed to grieve. I felt like I was not, I hadn't been a good enough friend to him. I wasn't like a good enough person. I didn't, I wasn't close enough to him. Like I just for some reason had this belief that I wasn't allowed to grieve him.

Um, and I wish that someone had told me like you. [00:14:00] You can grieve, you can absolutely grieve this person. Like mm-hmm. If you feel sad, it's because you loved them. And if you, and you get to, you get to experience that. Like it's per like, in fact, like it is loving of you to grieve someone who is gone. Um, and, and so I think I really just wanted to, um, to be able to provide those reminders for people, um, who are going through that grief, but also going through the deep.

Uncertainty of self-discovery of who am I without this person, or who am I without this job? Who am I without this idea of myself? Like when we go through these huge life changes, um, or when we're figuring out who we are in our early twenties, and it's like, who the, like what the fuck am I doing with my life?

Like, there's so much uncertainty and that can also feel really isolating. Um, but the truth is we all experience that uncertainty like all the time. So yeah. 

Jazz: Yeah. When I hear you talk about the journey, I hear the like immense grief that you experienced, but I also hear this permission to explore your identity a bit more.

Like who you are outside of the marriage, who you are as a person and [00:15:00] as a professional. What has that journey been like? 

Rachel Havekost: Yeah, that's been, it's been really interesting 'cause sometimes I think about like who I would be if I was still married and I can't even like picture that woman. Um. And I was talking, I think I was talking to my therapist about this this week, but I remember like right when Josh and I got divorced, I was, I just turned 31, I think.

Um, and I, I remember, um, thinking about, you know, starting to write and share my story and I knew that I was gonna have to talk about my childhood, which meant I was gonna have to talk about my parents. And I remember that being like a really big barrier to me writing because I was really afraid, you know, that my mom would take everything personally, that my dad would.

Just say nothing. And, and that would further exacerbate my belief that he wasn't proud of me. And, um, it really got in my way for a long time. And I remember like having this moment, like right after my birthday where I was like, I'm, I'm a 31-year-old adult grown ass woman. Like. This is my life and I, like, I get, I get to choose what I do with it.

Yes, I can choose how I do it. Yes, I can be [00:16:00] kind, yes, I can be respectful. But also this is my life. Like why am I still so concerned with what my parents are gonna think? And I think like get, giving myself sort of that like permission a to, to be a woman, to be an adult, , but also make choices without attachment to like.

What, what are my parents gonna do or think? But also what is my husband gonna think? Like, it gave me sort of this freedom for the first time in my, probably in my life, um, to make my own choices based on what I wanted and based on what I needed and based on what I thought was the right thing to do, um, for me and for others.

And so I think in the process of starting to share my story, I also started to, to really take ownership of who I was. Like I was telling stories about myself and my life, which meant that like I was being, I had to hold myself accountable in a lot of ways too, and. Uh, and I also had to figure out like how to do things on my own.

Like I felt, I was so embarrassed when Josh and I got separated because there were so many things that I [00:17:00] realized I was reliant on him for. Um, like I was in, I was in Bali at one point and I wanted to rent a scooter, and the first thing I thought was like, I should call Josh and have him figure out how I can rent a scooter.

I'm in Bali and he's halfway across the world. And I remember thinking like, good god, Rachel, like you can't figure out how to rent a scooter by yourself, like girl. Mm-hmm. Like, we gotta get it together. And um, so I had to like, you know, I just had to figure out like small stuff like that, like, and, you know, over the last like five and a half, six years, um.

I don't feel different. Like I am still me, like I'm definitely still Rachel, but I am so much less apologetic for who I am and, uh, and I do things that I wanna do. I do things the way I wanna do them. Um, I like myself. I think I'm pretty cool. I'm not perfect. Like there's shit about myself I don't like and that I'd like to work through.

And that's why I go to therapy, like. And, um, but I am really comfortable with who I am and the way I express myself. And, uh, and it's taken me a while to get there. And I think that, you know, I think having to be completely independent and on my [00:18:00] own, um, in a lot of ways forced me to do that. Um, but I think it also forced me to recog recognize some of the parts of myself that, um.

That I, that I wasn't really happy with, that I didn't, you know, that I, that I wasn't really proud of when it came to, like, how I was in relationships or in my marriage or with myself. And, um, so I had to also like really learn how to forgive myself, how to accept myself, uh. Those are ongoing practices like doing that did not like close a loop where I now am like, and I am perfectly healed.

Like it's, it's a practice of like, how can I continue to forgive myself? How can I conti continue to accept myself in times when I make a mistake, in times when I don't act exactly the way I want to, um, or think, you know, the way I'd like to about myself or the world. Um, so it's definitely like an ongoing process.

But yeah, I don't know. Also, if you probably remember like when I started my TikTok. This girl was blonde. Like I had like maybe five tattoos and now I have like 55. Like I looked a lot different too. And so I think also, like, not that appearance really matters, but I think I, [00:19:00] I allowed myself to physically express myself the way that I wanted to without fear of, you know, what, what people might think.

Um, which has been pretty liberating as well. 

Jazz: One of the not so obvious, I feel like. Benefits to being visible is the level of ownership you learn how to take, not only for what you create, but what you do in your life. Mm-hmm. Like, I'm willing to own this post. I'm willing to own what I say online. That ultimately translates into, well, I'm also willing to own the choices that I make in my life.

I'm willing to own the travel, the relationships that I engage in. And if I don't like it, I get to change it. Like I get that choice. Mm-hmm. And what I do. 

Rachel Havekost: Yeah. Yeah, that's a really interesting point too. And I think that that's something that I lately have really struggled with, so thank you for that reminder.

'cause I, I've noticed lately, like especially in my writing and in, you know, the content I put on social media, um, it's not that I am afraid to own things. I think it's that I am in this space that feels kinda like a limbo place where like, I don't really know what, [00:20:00] what to own. Like, it sort of feels like I am thinking more about what other people want to see.

Rather than having an original thought and then owning it and putting it out in the world. And I think that, I mean, part of that is just sort of like the existential space I'm in around like aging and time and all these other things. But, um, I think that's a really good reminder for me. Uh. To like allow myself to, to own things, like, to be, like, to be brave and bold with what I believe and to own it.

Um, 'cause I did, I did feel that way for quite a long time. Um, and I feel like that part of myself has, um, in some ways I've lost touch with it and it's something I wanna rekindle. So. Thanks. 

Jazz: Of course. I, I remember a, a post that you did. Fairly recently, but you were reflecting on the different ways you showed up online, whether it was the font that you were using, the mm-hmm.

Information that you were sharing. What was it like to do that exercise and really reflect on the different stages you've been online? 

Rachel Havekost: Yeah. It's really funny you say that. 'cause literally this morning before we got on our, uh, call, I spent about an [00:21:00] hour on Canva like. With one post, making it different fonts, different colors, like trying to figure out a new way to like, have different branding.

Like I was literally in that moment of like, I'm gonna change all of my branding right now with absolutely no plan whatsoever and it's gonna be great. Um, it was humbling, but also I think it was, uh, like for anyone listening for context, like I went through all of my posts from 2020 until now. And reposted like two from every year of like visually how the content changed, but also kind of like what was in like the, like the content of the content.

Um, initially I did it just to, just because I thought it might be interesting or relatable, but at while I was pulling stuff, I realized I kind of like watched my own growth over the last five years. And I also, um. I don't know. I had a lot of like softness for myself and a lot of pride because there were, you know, there I, I could visually see the ebbs and flows in my own mental health coming through the, the content.

Like I could see through certain, certain posts, like, oh yeah, like, that was a time where [00:22:00] I was really struggling, like having a really, really hard time, um, really depressed and just so lost in my thoughts of like, and my content sort of reflected that. It was very like. I sort of felt like I was like wading through a really dark ocean.

And um, and then I saw, you know, when I kind of found myself again and felt like I saw my content kind of get really clear and sharp and um, and, and wise and uh, and there was a lot of that ownership that you're talking about. Like I could feel myself owning something and like really being like. Not, like, not being like, and this is how things are, but having a really strong belief and caring about something and really, you know, and wanting to put it out there.

Uh, and then I, you know, I, so I just was able to like, witness myself sort of go through these ebbs and flows and I think that that was. Um, it was a, it was a good reminder to me that like, in these times where I feel like, kind of like I am right now where I'm in this limbo of like, I'm sort of swimming in that ocean again, not really knowing what way to go or where the land is or how I'm gonna get there, and I'm sort of floating aimlessly, um, that there's always a moment when I do find dry ground.

Mm-hmm. And when [00:23:00] I do, I come out. With a lot of, a lot of stability and feeling really sturdy and having something to say about the journey. So I think it's, it was helpful for, for me to sort of remember like, oh yeah, like this. We go through these ebbs and flows. We've done this before Rach, and every time like we come out and, and there's something, and there's something on the other side.

Um, and I, and I think it also, uh, like I said before, like it, it created a lot of softness for myself to sort of like witness my past. Past self, kind of go through these things and remember what it was like then to wonder like, what in the fucking world is gonna happen five years from now? And to be here mm-hmm.

Um, and be able to look back and say like, it's okay. Like, we're all right. Like we made it. So, 

Jazz: yeah. It's that, it's that journey of self discovery that you talk about and you've been so transparent about your journey with your eating disorder and that is still something that is. Prevalent in your content and now you are exploring, sharing what it's like your soberist journey, like what that's like to share publicly.

[00:24:00] What has that been like to experience it and then try and, uh, share it with the world? 

Rachel Havekost: Yeah, so that was definitely something that I was very, um, I wanted to, to. Really make a, a sort of private decision about whether or not I would share it publicly or not. And there were a couple reasons for that. One was, um, I wanted to make sure that I was committed to it before I shared it.

And so I wanted to give myself time to really settle into sobriety. Um, it felt, I just sort of felt like if I say something like on day one of like, I'm gonna stop drinking. It just doesn't feel it, it didn't feel like it was, it just didn't feel real. I needed to, like, I needed to do it for myself first before I did it.

Um. You know, in the, in the presence of others. And, uh, and the other, the other thing too, Jasmine, was I was so, like, this was something that stopped me from getting sober for a really long time. Like, I did not want another fucking label. I was so, I just was like, how, why is there just, why is there another thing.

Like, mm-hmm. Eating disorder, [00:25:00] depression, anxiety, uh, trauma. I have to get substance use abuse too. Like really, like why, like, can't I be done? Like, I just wanna be done, like, mm-hmm. And, um, and I really was just, I was so tired of having something else that I was having to work through something else that was wrong.

Something else that, uh, you know, and some other reason that, that life wasn't going well for me. And so there was a lot of shame as well. And, uh. I also didn't wanna make it my identity. Like I was really, I didn't want to be like the sober girl or the girl that like, is always talking about her sobriety or, um, preaching about it or, you know, trying to get other people to stop.

You know, I just, I wanted to, I wanted to do it for me. I knew I needed to do it for my mental health and I knew, I just told myself like, and you can decide if you share it publicly later, like right now, like the most important thing is that you get sober. Um. That you take care of yourself. So I just committed to that first, and then I think about, you know, like a month maybe, or maybe like six wa six weeks later.

Um, I just, I thought to myself like, [00:26:00] you know, one of the, one of the biggest things I have learned, um, in like the last 20 years of, you know, being, being in and outta therapy and treatment is that, um, you know, recovery. Recovery doesn't work alone. And, um, and, uh, accountability is really important and it's very, very hard for, um, for a disease to thrive when there are so many people involved.

So I just knew that if I, if I shared publicly, that would be like. I am nailing in my accountability. Like I am really now like saying like, this is something I'm committed to. So, um, in some ways it felt like I, I, it felt like something that I was also doing for myself. Like by, by putting it out there publicly, I was really saying, and this is something I'm committed to, and now I'm really truly accountable because I'm talking about it.

Um, and I was a little bit nervous about like, what. People would, I actually, I mean, it was less, like, less that I was nervous about what people would [00:27:00] think and more just like I, I was, I wondered if people would then would see it as, um, oh, here's Rachel on her high horse preaching about sobriety. And, uh, I don't wanna have anything to do with that.

Which, if that's what people think, that's okay. That's fine. Like I, I used to feel that way about people too. So, um, I just really wanted to. To talk about it from a place of like, this is just what's happening in my life. It's not something that I'm telling you you need to do. If it's something you're also doing great, you don't have to do it alone.

Um, but this is now an element of what's happening in my world and so it's something I'm gonna share. So that was kind of the, you know, the approach I wanted to take and, um. I haven't received any negative feedback. I have probably lost some followers, but I try not to really pay attention to that anymore.

Um, really the most important thing is that the people in my immediate life have done nothing but be supportive and love hard on me. And, and that was the, the really scary thing was what if, what if my friends don't wanna hang out with me anymore, or. Don't understand or don't think that I needed to stop drinking.

You don't see it as a big deal. Um, but I have, yeah, I've received nothing, but, um, a lot of, a lot of love and care, which I'm super grateful for. 

Jazz: Hmm. One of the more salient aspects of your journey with [00:28:00] drinking is. A lot of your post center around being able to highlight the things that haven't changed and and allowing yourself to be present.

And when we think about loss and change and grief and all of those big topics, it's really nice to be able to lean into things that have remained steady when we're going through really big life transitions. 

Rachel Havekost: Yeah. It's really interesting that you say that. Like I. I really, I really thought, I thought a lot of things.

Like I thought so I thought a lot was gonna change. Like I thought I was gonna have some big, like, physical transformation that I was gonna like, have a glow up. I thought that I was gonna have like tons and tons of energy and like be this whole new, like robotic, like, you know, magical human being with all these just like super clarity and like be thinking really sharply.

And my memory was gonna be on fire. Like I just visualized like, you know, numbers like flashing in front of me all the time. Um. I also thought like socially a lot of big things were gonna change. I thought like I was gonna lose a lot of friends. I thought [00:29:00] it was gonna be incredibly hard to be out and not drink.

Um, I thought, you know, I thought I would have crazy bad social anxiety or discover that I have absolutely no. I just thought there would be these like grandiose changes. And the reality is like nothing has really changed that much. Like I would say things have changed like 5%. Um, I do sleep better. My memory is a little bit better.

Um, I, I do go out a little bit less, like I come, come home at 11 instead of 2:00 AM Um, I, I still have social anxiety. Um, you know, like things are not drastically different. Um, they're pretty much the same. And in some ways I initially was like, oh, that's not good, because now I have no reason to stay sober like I thought.

Things were gonna be so much better that it would be like an obvious, why would I start drinking again? Because things are so much better. Um, but the truth is I'm realizing like, oh, like things are the same, which means that drinking actually wasn't making my life better. Like the only, the only thing drinking was really doing was giving me hangovers, making me [00:30:00] cancel plans, making me feel like a shithead or irresponsible, making me forget conversations, do things I regretted like.

My life is the same except that these bad things aren't happening because I'm not drinking. So I think getting to have that reframe of like, oh, it's not that my life is gonna have this drastic rehaul and like revamp, it's that I'm actually present in my life. And so the things that have stayed the same, I am remembering, I am more equipped to handle, I'm showing up for them.

Um, and like. I just, I feel like a baseline mentally every day and, um, so nothing has changed what everything has. Mm-hmm. 

Jazz: I resonate with so much of what you said as somebody who has also had to evaluate their relationship to drinking. One of the major things I noticed first was the improvement in sleep.

Mm-hmm. I was like, hell yeah. Like, I'm going to bed. I wake up, feel good. No anxiety, like I don't regret anything I did the day before, [00:31:00] but I also recognized drinking was more of a neutral point. It wasn't making my life better. Sometimes it made it worse, but for the most part, like it, it wasn't like I originally wasn't missing anything.

With that. And so the real question became, okay then what were the choices that I was making while drinking that were making things like much more complicated. Mm-hmm. Uh, and so I really appreciate your transparency and that journey and, and allowing us into even a facet of what it's been like. My pleasure.

So what do you foresee for yourself when it comes to showing up online? I, I hear parts of you that are like, you know, if I could retire this gig and retreat, like that would be really cool. And there's parts of you that I feel like aren't done with sharing and, and advocating. And so what [00:32:00] do you see for yourself?

Rachel Havekost: It's a really good question, and it's one that I ask myself a lot these days. Um, I don't know. Uh, I, I deeply long for, um, more stability and security in my career. And social media, at least for me, does not provide that, uh, nor does writing. It's a very up and down, um. It's a very up and down line of work.

And, um, and I also long for collaboration. Like I work mostly alone and I really, I really want to, um, I wanna work with others, like I wanna work on a team and with people and brainstorm and, you know, have. Have a space to collaborate and also get feedback and, um, and have that kind of, sort of structure that a team brings.

Uh, I don't know how that, what that looks like. Um, but I know that that's something that I, that I'm longing for after, you know, just after you. Almost six years of working with, with just me. Um, there, there are a lot of people up here, but there it's kinda like running in circles. So, um, and, uh, but [00:33:00] yeah, and I also, you know, I think when it comes to social media, I think I said this a little bit before, but it sort of feels like, like it's a really saturated space right now, and part of me wants to just take a step back, um, rather than like trying to continue to, mm-hmm.

You know, push, push into the space that, um, a lot of people are, are in. Uh, and I don't know how much of that is like my own fear of, you know, not being good enough or not standing out. Um, and how much of that is. Is actually just me knowing that it's my time to, to take a step back. And so I think I'm, I'm wrestling with that right now of trying to recognize which it, which it is.

Um, and I also know that like I am a lifelong creative person. Like I've always, like, since I was a kid, been an incredibly like creative, artistic human. Uh, and I need creativity in my life to feel fulfilled. And this is something I was talking to my therapist about, like, you know, right now I've noticed that all of my creativity gets poured into work.

Um, which means when I'm not working, I don't have. I don't have a full cup in my creative bin to work from. So I'm, I'm lacking in hobbies and personal projects and, um, and I miss that. Like, I wanna learn how to play the [00:34:00] piano and I wanna start painting again. But I don't, I don't, right now, I don't have the, you know, I don't have the energy tube because I use all of that.

I use it all in work. So I'd like to find, um, a balance there so I don't have a concrete answer for you. The answer is I'm figuring that out and I'm really letting myself take my time to do it, because in the past I've been quite impulsive. I make, I have an idea and I'm like, okay, that's what I'm gonna do.

And then I go do it. Um, and usually I, usually, I, you know, I do it well, but I think at this point in my life, I'm, I wanna try something different. So I'm going slow. I am evaluating sort of. My landscape and, um, gathering information, and then I will, uh, hopefully make an educated decision based on the information and the data.

Um, but yeah, that's kinda like where my, my heart is right now, so. 

Jazz: Mm-hmm. Well, the evidence exists within your content. I fully believe that you'll land on your feet no matter what you decide and wherever you choose to transition. I just know it'll be super impactful. 

Rachel Havekost: Thank you. I, I really appreciate that.

That means a lot.

Jazz: What would [00:35:00] you say to someone who wants to pursue creativity but is afraid of being perceived by others? 

Rachel Havekost: Hmm. Ah, that's a really good question. Um, I would say that is a really healthy way to feel. Um, I would, I would be more concerned if you had absolutely no fear of being perceived. Um.

I think, you know, I think, I think that fear is, is really human. So that's the first thing I would say. Um, and then I would say, you know, like, go slow. Like there's no, there's no rush to put all of yourself all out there all at once. Um, so sort of like ask yourself like, what am I comfortable with being perceived right now?

Um, is it a certain aspect of my story? Is it a certain way I tell that story? Um. Like for some people, like having their face on camera is the thing that's the scariest, right? It's not necessarily what they're saying or what they're sharing, it's the actual physically being perceived. Um, which is why it's so great that we can share text or we can do like videos that are like telling a story that have no, like face like faces or pictures of our own face.

Um. If it's certain parts of your story, keep those private until you feel comfortable sharing them. [00:36:00] Like when I started writing and sharing, um, I don't think I talked about my divorce until, like a year after I got divorced. Um, it took me a long time to feel comfortable sharing that. And, um, and there were certain parts of my, of my mental health that I did not share for years.

Like I, I talked a lot about my eating disorder, but I talked about it very, um, very vaguely. Like I was not that specific. The way I write about my life now is so different than the way I started. And, um, and that's because when I started, what I wrote was what I was comfortable with being perceived. So I would say allow that, that fear to be a reminder that you are human and that you are healthy and, uh, and to, and like a, you know, sort of see that, um.

That aspect or that concept of perception as being on a scale. And allow yourself to start where you feel okay with and trust that along the way you'll, you'll either get more comfortable with being perceived over here or you won't, and [00:37:00] this is a beautiful place for you to be. So that's what I would say.

Jazz: Thank you so much. This is such an inspiring conversation and I'm so excited for my audience to hear it. Thank you so much for joining me today. 

Rachel Havekost: Thank you so much for having me, Jazzmyn