Share From the Scab, Not the Wound: Vulnerable Storytelling With a Regulated Nervous System with Caitlan Siegenthaler

Jazzmyn welcomes back licensed therapist and business strategist Caitlan Siegenthaler for a raw, nuanced conversation about what it actually means to be visible without burning yourself out or performing for an algorithm. A year and a half after their first conversation, Caitlan shares how her own IFS (Internal Family Systems) and human design work has reshaped the way she creates — moving from urgency and "feeding the algorithm" toward a more seasonal, nervous-system-informed approach to showing up online.

This episode is a masterclass in the difference between vulnerability that regulates you and vulnerability that depletes you — and why the timing of what you share matters just as much as the content itself.

Transcript

We are back for another episode of The Visibility Standard. I hope everyone enjoyed their long weekend, had some relaxation time. If you were in DC, I hope you're enjoying the silence now. I, I'm so excited for my episode today. I have my friend Caitlin Siegenthaler here. I recorded with her maybe when I first started this podcast, so a year and a half ago at this point and continuing to watch her business evolve, the way she talks about visibility, the way she approaches it for helpers, creatives, healers, all the people she's supporting, I could not wait to have her on the show, and now I can't wait for you all to hear this episode.

Would love to hear your thoughts on it. Be sure to leave a comment, send me a DM, follow the show so you don't miss an episode.

[00:01:00] I'm so excited for my guest today. She is no stranger to the podcast. I had her with me when I was in my all our parts era, and I'm so excited to bring my friend Caitlyn back. Thank you so much for joining me today. 

Thanks for having me back. It's always such a compliment to, be back on a show, especially as much as your show has changed and evolved and.

Love the new direction. So thank you for having me. 

I appreciate it. Thank you, and I'm so excited to chat with you. You have been evolving in your. Visibility journey, identifying what works, what doesn't. For those of you that are new to Caitlan, she is a licensed therapist in Virginia who is now blending IFS blending business strategy and to her work and taking some of her own pivots too.

Yeah, I am. I. [00:02:00] Really am following my own human design and using parts work on myself. Like I think I'm my own greatest experiment when it comes to the work that has been evolving for me. And I think there was a part of me jazz that just got so, and maybe you feel this way in your visibility work too. So frustrated because I know so many cool people.

Really skilled therapists or healers or coaches that were just not getting the visibility, but like doing such incredible work. And I think parts of me also felt that way about my work. Not that I was like, oh my gosh, my work was so incredible. But I think there's so many people with integrity. And with beautiful intention that are doing amazing work, but are so focused on that work.

It's like happening behind closed [00:03:00] doors. And I'm like, wait a second. I want people to know about you and about you and about you and about you. Mm-hmm. And that was sort of the last component for me in my pivot of I need to be working with entrepreneurs to help them. Get their work and services out into the world, so 

Absolutely.

I know we just talked offline just about where both of our social media journeys are right now, and I told you I'm not. In a direct selling mood. And so part of my visibility journey right now is like, okay, what am I, who am I when I'm not a therapist, when I'm not mm-hmm. A podcast host?

Like, what is the value? And feeling confident in just showing up and creating without needing to sell, or having a direct call to [00:04:00] action. It's been a lot harder than I expected it to be. Really? But it's been a lot of fun. Yeah. 

Well, harder in what way? 

Therapists are specific, so that's like such a specific title and, just like the information that I am like offering, like I'm not hiding behind like this title or hiding behind like this offer, but just like.

Oh no. Like I'm creating, I'm sharing my opinions, I'm sharing my thoughts without 

yes, 

backing it with science. Like I'm just sharing how I'm experiencing the world and it's just so different. 

Yeah. I love that you're saying this because I just wrote a piece on Substack about like everything I had to unlearn, you know?

From graduate school and I went to graduate school over a decade ago, and so I don't know what they are teaching these days, but it was very much be a blank slate for your [00:05:00] clients. You know, don't even have anything that would suggest your political views or even whether or not you were in a relationship, which just sort of like blew my mind because it's like they're like, that could be triggering for your clients.

And so. Unlearning that in order to run a sustainable creative business because we are still human beings and we do still have opinions. And I love watching your work because I think your, I don't know how your education was, in regards to that, but it is like we do need to put kind of a. A flag in the sand and we do get to share our opinions

say those things. And I think clients also want that, especially these days. Like I was, I can't remember where I was, but the person essentially said I need to know what your political [00:06:00] leanings are and they were talking about working with a therapist. I was in like a social setting. But they needed to know that because they wanted to understand, are you gonna support me in the ways I need?

Right. And not to create an echo chamber, but more so it might even be unsafe for that person. Mm-hmm. If the political like views didn't align. 

Mm-hmm. What has been the biggest. Hurdle you've been overcoming in your visibility journey? 

That's such a good question. I think every season brings a different hurdle.

So my business is turning six years old next month, and I would say in the beginning of my business, the biggest hurdle was just feeling comfortable, like even being visible. Do you know what I'm saying when I say that? Yeah. Like [00:07:00] I remember I used to do this like mantra before I would even show up on Instagram and this was 2020, so it was like slightly different back then, but Sounds like I'm talking about, oh, way back, way back when we used to walk up back my 

day, 

all the way back to six years ago.

So in that season, the biggest struggle for me was just being visible and like feeling terrified of that. And then I worked with those parts and moved through that. And now I think my biggest struggle is like making sure that I'm not forcing myself to be visible for the sake of being visible, because that's what everyone else quote unquote does to run a business.

And I use human design, so I'm a projector, which is a different level of energy type than you have, right? As a generator. And. So I'm trying to make sure that I'm just like not [00:08:00] doing it from a place of forcing that it, every time I show up to share something, it's coming from that place of I want to do this.

Like the piece I just wrote for Substack that came from a, like, I need this to live in the world if only for me, and the one other person, which I already got an incredible text from. Someone was like, this was so helpful. And I was thinking about that person today. And it's like I'm showing up for me and for them and anyone else that benefits amazing.

Like, not specifically them like that one person that benefits. So my challenge right now is to ensure that I'm not just contributing. Things to contribute to be quote unquote consistent, if that makes sense. 

Yeah. What were some signs or feelings you got [00:09:00] when you felt like you were creating for the sake of creating and being consistent?

One, one great question. By the way, one sign for me. Is always like energetically, it sort of feels like a rushing, like, okay, I'm gonna get the thing. Okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna like write this script for the podcast. Okay, I'm gonna think about it. Okay, now I need to publish it. Like, there was kind of like a rushing and a rigidity to it that it's like, well who are you doing that for?

Caitlyn, as I'm pretty sure everyone's gonna be okay if you don't rush through this just to get it up. And so really helping my parts and my system reverse that and slow down and let thought pieces and things that [00:10:00] I wanna be visible, visible for sort of simmer. And just kind of standing in that, it reminds me of in therapy when we just don't fill the space with our client.

And we just let the space and the silence kind of linger, and then usually the client keeps talking and then we get to something juicy.

It's like. I'm teaching my system to not always fill the space every single week and da, da, da, da. Now there's a flip side of that, which is okay, then we're never consistent, so we're never gonna show up, and then we just take our hands off the wheel.

And what I'm trying to find is like this level of being visible, that's still in alignment for me, but isn't. Forcing. And so if my natural cadence at this very moment in time with what's happening in my life [00:11:00] happens to be once a month, then that's what it happens to be. And if in a few weeks that cadence changes, great.

And actually I think that's like more natural. 

Mm-hmm. 

For some folks and like for me in particular. So that's how I notice it. It's like what's the energy in my body doing? And then that's also how I combat is not the right word, but quell it, you know? Or work with it. Yeah. 

It sounds like there was a feeling of urgency that the algorithm that the overlord algorithm was bringing, and a lot of us can resonate with that feeling of okay, we need to feed the algorithm.

We need to be consistent. We need to show up, we need to say something. We need to maintain that visibility. And it's just like this constant hamster wheel and that, 

yeah. 

Doesn't work for everybody. So allowing yourself that [00:12:00] space to reflect, to take a step back and to show up in the way that feels meaningful for you and to not judge yourself.

Yeah. Which I imagine that was its own journey to, to not judge yourself for scaling back. I feel like a lot of people can resonate with that. 

Yeah. And for me, even when I'm talking about being visible, it's mostly like through my substack and podcast, I'm dressed visible on stories, but I don't post like anything to my feed.

But still, like I appreciate what you're saying too, 'cause it's like, I think that's another really amazing question is like, why am I posting this? And like, who is it for? And if it's for the algorithm that's like already. The wrong reason. Mm-hmm. And I really like to think about, especially my creative visibility work, when I'm creating something, a lot of times it's me to me, or it's me to like younger me, or it's me to that one person that I know [00:13:00] might benefit from hearing what I'm teaching, what I'm sharing, the guest I have on my podcast.

And to me that's great, that's enough. And I'm really leaning into my human design, which is all about, I'm a four line. So utilizing relationships as a way for people to find me and trusting in that and then knowing that, and that's what I'm experimenting with right now and feeling less beholden to.

Some sort of algorithm mm-hmm. Thing because I tried that way from like 2020 to like through like mid 2022, into 2023. And then I got pregnant and I was just like, I don't have the energy to sustain this. I also experimented with the other way, and that way didn't work for me, but I know that it works for other people as well.

And so [00:14:00] my thing is just find what energetically works for you rather than like copying and pasting someone's idea of consistency. Like what your idea of consistency and visibility might be totally different than mine and that might also differ during seasons and just being compassionate about it and being like, cool.

That makes sense. That's okay., I think is what's helpful for sure. 

Definitely. A, I love that you're speaking to like the seasons of everything and there is the expectation and sometimes the perception that we can constantly churn out content, create, be visible and show up, and that's just not.

Realistic, that's not sustainable. And nobody has to function that way. I, I think when we allow ourselves the space to do more or to scale back and give ourselves the [00:15:00] permission to just meet ourselves where we're at. That's when we are able to create from that sustainable place and that place that's excited to create and not just ugh, gotta get this post out, gotta get this up and then moving on with it.

Yeah. And could I pretend like, oh, I've never done that and I will never do that again. Like, duh, I'm still a human. Of course. There are gonna be times where I still feel that external pressure. But I love what you're saying, like I like to think about nature in this example. You know, like trees don't blossom 12 months out of the year in most places, and there's a reason for that.

But it doesn't mean that they're dead or that they're not generating energy. Like they're very much rooted into the ground. They're still in contact with one another. There's all those amazing like neural. Or like root networks or whatever. And I think about it like [00:16:00] that, like woo, maybe there are times when I wanna just like really blossom and bloom.

There are other times when I wanna just let everything go. There are times when I wanna be quiet and silent and I'm like heading into that right now. And tr like trees really trust. That those leaves are coming back to blossom. And I think we can really take a lesson from that as well. Like you will have your blossoming season again and being visible again.

Mm-hmm. And for some folks that may happen much more quickly than other people too. Like it doesn't mean you have to follow like the tree month thing. So I love to look to nature for. Examples of how those cycles like work and function so well. 

Oh, you've been in the socials and just the visibility space since 2020.

You've been experimenting on threads [00:17:00] Instagram, now you're on Substack since we last recorded together. What is your favorite platform right now and why? 

My favorite platform is currently. In no particular order, actually in a very particular order, scratch in, in the most particular order. My favorite platform is my podcast because it's content that I own, that I fully control, that I, 

mm-hmm.

Whoever subscribed to it gets it. I love long form content. I'm a chatty gal, Geezy can't tell. So I love like being able to share all of that stuff. I have a defined throat center in human design, like Baby was born to podcast. Okay? So I love podcast content, and then that gets repurposed and shared on Substack.

I thought I was [00:18:00] going to say that Substack is my next favorite place. But to be honest, I post and ghost on Substack. Like the people that are there in my community in return plus know me from somewhere else. I'm not, I haven't tried to intentionally build a community there, and it's not because I don't believe in Substack as a platform.

I do think it's really fantastic and I love using it, and I'm not going anywhere. I just haven't had the time to. Put resource behind that because all of the resource goes into my podcast. And then in terms of like quick relational connections, I love threads because I think the visibility opportunity on threads is really great.

I love that it's just words. I love responding to people on threads, like pe I don't know how you feel about threads, but I just feel like. I could get an answer to any question I might need, like [00:19:00] reasonably quickly with like people, I more or less trust on the internet, which is kind of strange. And then I love stories because there is a visual component to some of the things, like my son had a fever earlier this week and I just posted a picture.

I never posted his face, but. I posted a picture of us on the couch, kind of like snuggling, and I had a heart over his face, and so many people responded to that just like, human connection, right? 

Mm-hmm. 

So I guess I like going to different places for different things and for different purposes, but I'm always really mindful about the reason I'm going to the place.

If I'm going to Instagram, I'm going there for stories or. To interact with other people's stories, to DM with people. If I'm going to threads, I'm like going to share a thought or an idea or respond to other people's thoughts or ideas, and I like operating [00:20:00] in that way. So I hope I answered your question.

You did. It sounds like there's a lot of intention behind how you choose to show up and how you choose to not only consume, but also engage. Like what is the purpose of logging onto Instagram right now? It is to share in stories, connect and build those relationships in a more visual way.

Threads is like communication words. And then through podcasting and substack. It allows you to share more long form in depth thought that doesn't necessarily require, the back and forth, or there's no, like, back and forth expected,, unlike Instagram or threads where there is more of a relational like communication component to it.

Yeah, which part of me really likes, especially being a projector in human design, is it's so nice to just like loop. Here you go. [00:21:00] Enjoy it worlds. Let me know. I do wish there was a way to make podcasts like slightly more interactive, but for now I'm also energetically okay with it. What are your favorite platforms right now?

It has really shifted, 

so, oh, 

I'm really enjoying TikTok right now. 

I've heard good things about TikTok. I love it. I love the energy for the talk, but I've heard great things. 

I'm having so much fun over there right now. Podcast would be like equal, if not number two, Instagram's number three, substack number four.

I haven't been enjoying threads lately. Yeah. I don't, I think part of it is, I'm trying to rebuild my algorithm a little bit. It's not that it feels like an echo chamber, but there is just so much noise [00:22:00] on threads. There is so many. Thoughts and ideas and opinions and things and where I am right now.

And like my creation process is like I'm trying to consume the least as possible. And so whenever I get on threads, I just feel ugh. Like I just saw and I just wanna get off. 

You're like, okay. Bye. This was fun. See ya. See ya later. Yeah, it's true. Maybe I should bring TikTok back, but I'm just scared.

I'll, like, love it, and then I'll get sucked into the videos. I mean, I have Opal on my phone too, so I'm like locked out of apps pretty much all the time, during the day. And then if I need to. Or want to go on there to post something, I have to unlock it, which is really nice. 'cause it makes me think about like, okay, why am I going on this platform in the first place?

But I hear that, I think I've heard people say that about threads. [00:23:00] I must have a really fun algorithm going over there or something, or who knows? I just, but this is what I think is so great, is like. People are gonna have different things that resonate for them differently depending on the season and 

mm-hmm.

Just acknowledging that and being like, cool, that's a, like, that's great and this is what works. And as long as it's feeling really good to your energy. I think that's the whole point. 

Yeah. I think part of threads too is, I tend to overthink in word content. And so I don't feel like I translate well versus like video, audio.

I'm like, okay, cool. Let's pop this up here. We're gonna get full engagement, or we're gonna get full, like, whatever Jazzmyn I'm feeling and I don't need to perform it or package it in a very specific way with short form, like word. So [00:24:00] like with threads and even twitter, like I feel like, I'm thinking too much about what am I trying to say?

How am I trying to say it? Yes. Oh, they came off really bitchy. I've gotta delete it. Oh, that wasn't that funny. Now I've gotta delete it. It's tough. 

I love that because like I've definitely. Put some whoppers out on threats that I'm like, I think they're so funny in my head. And then I'll like post it and it's crickets.

Or then I'll go back the next day and I'll be like, damn, I thought that was gonna like slap. And it's like nobody did anything with it. I'm like, this must be how it feels to bomb as a comedian. So,,,..,

But oh my

I think that there's a part of me that like low key wants to be a comedian, but I'm like not really sure how I go on that journey. Not like a full-time thing, but just I think it would be fun in the artist way.

There's like this exercise [00:25:00] where you basically journal about or imagine other lives. And one of mine is always as a comedian. So that's all I wanted to say. And then I get feedback from threads and I'm like, Ooh, girl, maybe not 

stick to the day job. But speaking of other lives, you've been dabbling in some line dancing?

I have. Yeah. I, that was a real plot twist for me, honestly. . I don't know. I think my friend like talked me into going and then I just found some joy in it. But I don't know if I like love country music, but I love line dancing, which isn't oxymoron I guess. But like here we are. And I have probably the most eclectic taste in music, although maybe a lot of people say that, but it is.

Real, like if you guys got into my Spotify, it's real, real weird in there. Just all over the map, genre [00:26:00] wise. So yes, I've been doing that. I'd love to get my hands on some pottery. I just started crocheting. 

Ooh, what are you making? 

I'm trying to make a granny blanket with the squares. 

Mm-hmm. 

So that's my next project, but.

I don't know if you've ever tried to crochet, jazz. Have you ever tried? 

No. 

It's real complex with the fingers and the like, loop it, swoop it. I had to watch this woman's video. Normally I listen to podcasts and videos on like at least 1.25, 1.5. Usually 1.75. Like I'm, I like a speedy combo. But I had to, 'cause I was watching this video on YouTube of how they do it.

I had to watch it on 0.25. So literally, so slow. And then [00:27:00] I had to watch them like, and then make the slip knot and then again, and then I had to be like, okay, her finger is hanging over this thing. Okay. And it really activated parts of me that like to be good at things like immediately. So it was good, but I'm trying to take care and cultivate my creative parts and like my creativity and I'm trying to take it like serious is not the right the right word, but I'm trying to give it as much priority as I give work stuff.

Mm-hmm. 

And. Some days that goes better than others, but yeah. So that's where all of that 

stuff is going. Yeah. Where people, I think a lot of us are starting to invest in our hobbies and treat our hobbies of equal value to our work. The world is on fire, what things are happening [00:28:00] all the time. 

Oh, yeah.

And so. In a resistance, nervous system regulation, maintaining sanity, supporting other people kind of way. We're like, oh wow. These things, these hobbies that we enjoy are going to sustain us long-term and allow us to engage more thoughtfully in the work that we're doing and the world that we're creating.

Yeah. A thousand percent. It just also feeds my soul and it helps me remember, not that life isn't serious, but also we can make it cute. We can make it fun. Mm-hmm. We can make it, you know, there's like other things to be unearthed or uncovered in there, and I have parts that get like so focused and.

I don't know how you feel, but I [00:29:00] love my work. Like it does not really feel like work and I love it so much. I love every stage. I love as it evolves, and I really, really mean that. This is 0% bullshit and that's still work. Like it really is. I gotta remind my parts like it's still work and that's not the only reason I was put on this.

Planet. You know, 

I was just thinking how, like one of the initial things both of us connected on was that we both really value work, being able to invest and create and build, in our achieving parts. Like really celebrate having this project, this work life being that we get to cultivate and nurture.

It's still work. And our value is not based on what we can produce. What do we do for work? Our value is based in existing. [00:30:00] And if I'm understanding what you're saying is like you're allowing yourself to explore, and understand I am whole, whether I'm investing in my work right now or if I'm.

Learning how to crochet. Those are both equally valuable and equally important. Um, and they don't change anything about me. 

That's right. And I am trying to embody that by making my calendar reflective of that same priority. 

Yeah, that's the. That's the kicker right there, 

isn't it? Because it's like, well, you know, I can know.

Mm-hmm. 

And for so long I'm like, oh, I know creativity. I love creativity. I'm creative. I write, and it's like, yeah, but how much time was I allotting those parts to just like play and, what's that word [00:31:00] like. Dabbles is not the right word. Like kind of doddle, you know, dilly dally, dilly dally, all the D words meander.

And I'm realizing like, oh, this is, mm-hmm. But I need to schedule it. 'cause I have limited space as, as we all do as human beings. So I do schedule it, which is unsexy, but it gets the job done.

And that shows like you want to prioritize it. Yeah. Like I've also been in this space of wanting to prioritize, play and fun so much.

So I got, my partner and I season passes to King's Dominion. Oh. And I like, haven't been in like years, but I had this, I was like, I wanna go to King's Dominion. I wanna have fun, go to an amusement park, like just walk around. I think especially living in DC right now, I, 

I 

think I [00:32:00] want somewhere else to walk around and I can walk around Kings Dominion and get dipping dots.

That was a big push for me actually. 'cause I love dipping dots. 

I mean, you and my child as well. He, we were at the zoo the other day and he was like. Mommy, what that? And I was like, oh, that's like little.ice cream. Oh. And then he said his name and he pointed to himself like me, I want some me. And I was like, no, sorry, we're not gonna have ice cream at 10 30 in the morning right now.

And he was like so little. He was talking about the dots so little. I'm like, yeah, they are so little. They were the ice cream as if they've been the ice cream in the future for 30 years now. So good for dipping dots. 

Nobody has managed to emulate or really replace 'em. But I love a good dip and I mean, you can't find it everywhere.

So it's like, if I can walk, if I'm having a bad day this summer, just go to King's Dominion. 

Love it. I love that. Also, dipping dots, like [00:33:00] what a sensory experience too, you know, little, those little dots. So what else are you doing then for creativity? I love that. 

I am doing a lot of baking right now. 

Oh 

yes.

Love. I've been sharing now the love your baking 

stuff 

on the stories. A lot of cooking. A lot of reading now too, which I really, yes. I've love getting back into reading.

Wait, can I ask you something? 

Yeah. 

I, this is my new curiosity. Okay. So I recently got two books from the library. And both of them were not great.

Previous Caitlin would've committed and finished the books anyways. Now I was like, screw that. No thank you. And I returned 'em. Are you team plow through or are you team take it back? 

Oh, I'm taking it back. 

Okay. I'm 

finishing that book. [00:34:00] It's closed. 

I'm like, am I the only person that just inflicted self suffering for a while?

Just to like, I always had this part that was like, but what if it gets better? And I feel like that tells you a lot about me. What if it gets better? And then. I said to that part this time, it's not gonna get better. This book is very bad. So 

yes, letting yourself let it go. Yeah. With TV shows, sometimes I will do it prematurely, so I will watch 30 minutes of one episode and then I'm like, oh, this was a terrible show.

Take it out of my row. I'm not watching it anymore. And then I'll come back to it sometimes unknowingly, like a year later, I'm like, oh. Oh my gosh, this is so cool. I just needed to give it more time. Yeah. And so I'm like, that's like its own lesson for me sometimes. Like you just gotta give it some time, some space, let it run its [00:35:00] course.

But with books, because I think it may be the English part, the English major in me, like, I'm like, okay, I'm either in it or I'm not. Like I'm, yeah. I wanna tear apart all the literary devices and the simile and the bigger meaning of the book. So then I really struggle. What are you reading right now?

I'm reading Atmosphere. I think that's what it's called by Taylor Jenkins Reed. I just got that one at the library. 'cause I'll, well, I won't tell your whole podcast this whole story. We can forget about that. But. I do have a Good Reads account. Are you on Good reads? 

I am. 

Okay. We'll follow each other on there.

And then you can see all the whole drama, but work-wise, I always am doing like a fun book and then a workbook or like a learning book. And this, I think your listeners will love this book. It's called The Power of One. This, oh, sorry. Company of one. Wow. Not The Power of One Company of [00:36:00] One by Paul Jarvis.

It's really cool. It's about like why growth isn't always the right move business wise. Mm. And it's been so good for my parts and like my brain and kind of a lot of what we've talked about during this conversation of being intentional, being like in tune with yourself about what you need, almost being intuitive about it, and then.

Almost questioning do we really need to grow in whatever x, Y, Z way? Mm-hmm. Or can we like leverage what we've got? And I think that's such an important question. So 

I like that. I'm gonna have to look into that. I did like the power of one too though.\ You create it. No. 

I feel like I was merging like the Power of Nav by Who's that?

Eckhart? Totally. Yeah. I have that book and this [00:37:00] accompany of one. Oh my God. This poor guy Paul Jarvis, I'm never gonna get your book. Yeah. Company of one by Paul Jarvis. So I'm always doing like a double decker situation where there's like something for learning and something for just shutting my brain down and I can't.

Do the learning one before I go to sleep. 'cause then my brain doesn't shut off. 

Yes. 

You know, it has to be the not learning. Mm-hmm. So I just started atmosphere. I do like Taylor Jenkin Reeds. I really liked the seven husbands of Evelyn Hugo. I read it forever and a day ago. But, so we'll see. I've heard mixed reviews though, about this new about atmosphere.

So. 

Okay. Keep me posted. 

I will. I'm thinking about your human design and as that relates to visibility. 

Well, we'll talk about it 

on my podcast. 

Yeah. 

Oh, okay. That's a fun teaser. [00:38:00]

We'll talk about it yeah, I've been, it's been like a journey for sure, but I'm excited to get into it and. Right now I'm reading for fun the under bridge journals of Sylvia Plath.

That's my fun read before. Are they 

good? Is it good? I'm, are they, I'm assuming it's just a singular book? 

It's a singular book of all of Sylvia Plath's journals writing entries, and her mind is just, I mean, she's such a beautiful writer. It's hard to not love it. 

Yeah, I bet. She's so dope. 

Yeah. Yeah. I think like the biggest lesson in visibility for me is like what I respond to, again, especially in this very noisy world, what gets to elicit a reaction, from me.

, I'm had to really, especially as I [00:39:00] like, expand from. Talking about specific, like therapy specific or, podcast specific. Allowing myself to create more openly, I have to be really thoughtful about what I respond to. 

Oh, that makes a lot of sense. What's something that you were like, Ooh, maybe no, and respond to.

I think 

politics is one that I go back and forth on. Oh, 

yeah. 

What feels resonant to speak up and out on as a black woman, as a queer woman, as a therapist? 

Yeah. 

As all of these identities, like it, it feels inauthentic to bury my head in the sand on my content. Totally. Because that's not what my.

Real life looks like and it can elicit so [00:40:00] many rea, like so much from, and it can take away from my creativity. So I really have to be thoughtful about like how I wanna deliver 

Mm, 

what I'm saying, what I'm responding to. Politics has been a big one for me that I've had to. Really, really do some work around.

That makes a lot of sense though, because I feel like some of what the internet doesn't allow for, at least in short form content is nuance, and I feel like that's what you're saying is like mm-hmm. There has to be some nuance to some of your responses when you are using your generator strategy to respond of like, yeah, I.

I see this, I experienced this, but like also, you know, X, Y, Z thing. 

Mm-hmm. '

cause we are complex as human beings. And I feel like that, especially in today's political [00:41:00] climate, that nuance gets lost, missed. Mm-hmm. So I can just appreciate like, yeah. Trying to find. Strike that balance, especially if you are doing it in a more short form way, which is like very much, a lot of being visible is for sure short form content and people are consuming that much more quickly.

I remember last. I'm thinking about when we recorded together last year. 

Yeah. 

And like in January, I was like, I don't feel the need to talk about it. Like I, and I didn't want to, I actually really didn't want it to be a part of my content. And time continues to go on, and things continue to just go off the railing.

Then I'm like, well.

It is incongruent. It is, it's not realistic to say that I'm here creating in this world, in this bubble, and I'm not aware of what's happening [00:42:00] around me like that. That does not offer an authentic, representation of where I see this. Page or this content and so I think it goes right back to what we talked about in the beginning is allowing ourselves to pivot and to see, to build what we want to intentionally and thoughtfully and go from there.

Yeah, that makes so much sense around, I've been feeling that too. On a bunch of levels, like for sure politically, but also personally, like I have something, that I shared with you about what's going on with me personally right now. And it's like it feels inauthentic to just totally ignore it.

But I'm really tapping into like the relationship and the necessity of the information that I share and like how much of it, and. Sometimes it really is like just naming it and letting it 

mm-hmm. 

Be there, but still doing that. And I think [00:43:00] it's so hard because especially with what's happened so much politically right now, people are like, well, silence is, yeah, violent.

Like, there's lots of just yelling and it's like, well, okay, everybody just, 

yeah. 

Take a beat. That might not be what's happening. That's why I say the thing about nuance, but it is important, like even if we just have to name this piece and then that's all we wanna share, I think we can respect that.

I also don't love bullying people into visibility. That sometimes happens. 

Mm-hmm. 

How do you feel about that? 

That's tough. I personally, like forcing someone to speak up on something is never my vibe. I think. Yeah. That people don't speak up on things for a number of reasons. Totally. And they get to have that grace and feedback.

I think it goes back to like. What do you as the [00:44:00] audience member want from that creator? So if you're looking for like co-regulation, if you're looking for shared values, if you're looking for a safety blanket in that creator, like then your expectations of them are going to be based on the standard you're holding them to.

Ooh. 

So, especially like as I start sharing more, creating more personally from a personal place, it's like you share from the scab not the wound. Totally. And so like, you know, I had like a, a really big event in my life last year, and so I would say in the last six months I've been able to talk about grief a little more.

I've been able to talk about what that's like to have an identity shift and been able to process that publicly.

It all gets to change and it all gets to, fluctuate and so just as much as what I'm thinking about how I want the [00:45:00] audience to receive me, I'm thinking about, okay, why am I putting this out here? Yes, I imagine if I was talking about grief and shifts last year, like I would be looking for support or consoling.

And that's not necessarily a bad thing, but creating from that place wouldn't be sustainable for me versus now it is. I am, I'm able to talk about grief as something I'm living with and navigating. And your journeying with me versus this thing that I'm trying to figure out how to process 

makes so much sense.

It's like. They're coming along with you rather than being involved in you processing it. 

Mm-hmm. 

So interesting. I wish everyone was as intentional.

The internet might be a much more lovely co-regulate [00:46:00] place, but that's okay. Everybody's just doing their best. You know, 

we're all, we're all hanging in there, but. I'm glad we got to talk today. 

Me too. Thank you so much for having me back. I'm really grateful for our connection and yeah, always a pleasure to be here.

So thank you. Of 

course.