SEO-Driven Website Redesigns: What to Know Before You Rebuild

Don’t Let Your Website Glow-Up Tank Your Google Rankings

Thinking about a fresh new look for your website? Whether you're rebranding, switching platforms, or chasing a cleaner aesthetic, a redesign can breathe new life into your online presence—but it can also destroy your SEO if you're not careful.

In this episode of From Keywords to Connections, Mary and Winnie break down what really happens under the hood during a website overhaul. You'll learn why so many helping professionals unknowingly sacrifice traffic, search visibility, and client inquiries in the name of a "better" design—and how to avoid the most common mistakes.

We’ll cover:

• Why aesthetics shouldn’t override SEO strategy
• The silent killers: deleted pages, broken internal links, and forgotten redirects
• Real-world examples of well-intentioned redesigns that led to ranking crashes
• What to do before, during, and after your redesign to protect (or even improve) your SEO
• How to communicate clearly with your designer or VA to keep SEO front and center

This is a must-listen episode for therapists, coaches, and wellness professionals planning a website refresh. Don’t let your redesign derail your digital presence. Tune in, take notes, and walk away ready to make smart, SEO-savvy moves.

🎧 Listen now—and be sure to share this episode with your web designer, VA, or anyone helping with your site’s relaunch!

Transcript

Mary (00:07.256)
Hey there, you're listening to From Keywords to Connections.

We talk about more than just SEO.

We explore the real stories, strategies, and moments that help people connect in meaningful ways.

Mary and Winnie bringing you honest conversations about strategy, growth, and the connections that matter most.

We're so glad you're here.

Winnie (00:50.104)
Hey there and welcome to From Keywords to Connections, the podcast where we explore how real connection and smart SEO come together to help your practice grow. My name's Winnie and I'm here with Mary. Today we're talking about a big mistake we see all the time. Redesigning a website without thinking about SEO. Maybe you're rebranding, switching platforms or just craving a fresh new look. And that's exciting. But if you don't bring SEO into the process from the start, you can actually take your rankings, lose traffic and watch those client inquiries slow to a crawl.

In this episode, we'll walk through the most common SEO mistakes during redesigns and what you can do to protect or even improve your visibility in the process. Let's make sure your website refresh doesn't come with ranking crash. Ready? Let's dive in.

Mary (01:41.528)
this topic. I think it's great. we get a lot of clients that come and do our strategy sessions because they're getting ready to redesign their website or start a fresh new website. And these are a lot of the things that we talk about with the clients that come in because starting with SEO from the beginning is important because if you're switching from one platform to another, there are a lot of things that you need to take into consideration.

And if you're building a new website, there's other different things that you need to take into consideration. So, you know, it's not just about looks. Everybody wants that website that's attractive, that looks good, that's pretty, inviting, but that's not, you know, you can have that and you can still have an SEO friendly website because that's not the only thing that it's about.

So it is important that a website looks good. Absolutely. know, for that user experience, that's absolutely what we want. It's just the less fun backend stuff that often gets left off that as SEO experts we know can be incredibly important to make sure someone gets to see the beautiful design you put on your website.

Right, because you can have the most beautiful website ever created and you can design it to just wow people when they see it. But if you don't have an SEO foundation that's drawing people to your website, nobody's ever going to see it anyway. So it's just it's that, you know, it's thinking of that like renovating your house, you know, but if you've knocked down that load bearing wall because it didn't match your new aesthetic, it looks good, but the roof is going to collapse. So there you're going to be.

And SEO isn't a set it and forget it thing. You know, it's going to be built into your pages, your links, your structure. And during redesigns, those things often get erased or replaced. So that's something that you really need to take into consideration whenever you start redesigning or restructuring, renovating or switching to a new platform.

Winnie (03:36.896)
Absolutely. And it can be, it's those things that you don't know what you don't know. So you might erase something because, it doesn't look the way you want it to. So you're going to redo it, but you've just erased a major link that is super important and start kind of breaking that chain of your internal linking down, which can just, it's a waterfall effect of issues.

Yeah, so why does SEO usually get overlooked in a redesign?

Couple things, most redesigns are initiated by web designers or branding experts and most of them do not have your long term SEO in mind. That's not their specialty. Right. And so they're focusing on the UX part of it, the user experience, which is incredibly important.

Yeah.

but then that other piece of it gets left out. And it is stuff that can be oftentimes put back in later, but often we see a dip. So it can be really helpful to make sure you're talking with, you know, an SEO expert and the web design expert at the same time. So each specialist can focus on what they do best and ensure your website is well-rounded both in how it looks and how it's set up. Another big part of it is

Winnie (04:58.51)
Copy often gets rewritten for if you're rebranding for tone, what have you. And if that is a page that has on page optimization on it, a rewrite is going to remove most of your SEO on that page, realistically, or that's what I've seen in the past.

Yeah, like you think about, you know, if you're rebranding and you're moving to a new platform and you're kind of starting fresh, even if you move the content over, if you change all the pictures, you're losing all the SEO that you did on all the pictures previously. So you've just got plain pictures on your website now with no alt text, no alt titles, no SEO on them. So you've just lost a huge piece of why your site was ranking in the first place.

So that's one thing that often gets overlooked because changing out a picture may seem like not a big deal or a simple thing, but there's really a lot of SEO that goes into those pictures and changing them out, makes a huge difference.

And if you're rewriting, you know, content on your website, you might change what keywords you're using. So now you've just, and if you've removed a major keyword for that page, you're going to start seeing your rankings plummet because you've taken that context off your page. Even if you've replaced it with something new and a different keyword that maybe you like better or think sounds better, it will affect it. Also, sometimes in website redesigns,

blog content gets deleted, moved, what have you, to kind of fit the rebrand. And that is a big red flat to Google. If anything goes and looks through your site map, looks through your pages, and now there's broken links because you've deleted blogs that I'm certain there are links elsewhere too, or just notices, hey, this page was here and now it's gone. And I...

Winnie (06:54.872)
you you were ranked, that blog was ranking on the first or second page for something, that's going to throw up Google's red flags. And then they're going to start pulling your rank. There was one other thing I was going to mention that I completely skipped over was URL structures, which can be really important, but changing a URL structure can be really tricky. So for example, on an anxiety page, the URL would be, you know, your website name, backsplash, anxiety dash therapy.

dash your location. for example, Kansas City, anxiety dash therapy dash Kansas City. Well, let's say you don't want it to look like that. You're rebranding the brand specialist is like, let's go with something more, you know, poetic, more kind of light, not let's move away from it and changes it to your website, backsplash, breathe dash easy. You've just taken away a huge chunk of your SEO.

it's taken away the keyword in your URL and your location for the sake of aesthetic, which like we've said, aesthetic is super important, but that is a decision that needs to not be made lightly. That needs to be weighed heavily on because it's going to affect your ranking. We want people to get to your website and your redesign is not going to make the impact you want if people aren't still making it and seeing on your site with

And what common issue that comes along with changing URL structures is not setting up proper redirects. Yep. So let's say you make that change from on your URL, you change it from anxiety dash therapy dash Kansas city to breathe dash easy, and you don't set up a redirect. You're going to have a lot of what we call four X errors, which are broken links because

Any place you've linked to that anxiety therapy page on your website is going to take them now to a 404 page instead of your actual anxiety page. So this is kind of getting into some common mistakes we see during redesign. And one of the biggest ones is not setting up those 301 redirects. Anytime, and this doesn't even have to be with.

Mary (08:57.952)
Right.

Winnie (09:13.096)
redesign. This is if you are changing your URL in any way whatsoever once it's published, especially once it's been linked, you absolutely must set up a 301 redirect to tell Google and potential clients on your website where that new page lives. Otherwise they land on your 404 page that impacts your SEO rankings. It impacts user experience. We don't want that. So

What the 301 redirects will say, hey, you know, website, hey, Google, you the anxiety therapy link used to take it to the anxiety page. But now this free easy link is going to take you to the anxiety page. There's several different ways to do it. It depends on what platform you have in Squarespace. It's super easy there. And you can just look on, you know, you.

Squarespace tells you how to set it up. You put in like a little formula with the old URL and the new URL. WordPress, oftentimes we need to download a plugin, which is there's a ton of great options that then once again, you just plug in with the old URL, the new URL to tell it where to go. It's a process you have to learn, once you kind of have...

The system set up, it's pretty easy to go back and put all of your needed 301 redirects in there.

I know that sounds pretty technical. cause I mean, I, I don't like doing redirects. It's not my thing. And Winnie likes doing them. So I'm like, Winnie or Sterling, can you please do this redirect? Cause I'm not doing it, but you know, you have to think of the redirect. Like it's like, it's like when you move, you change your address because if you don't, your mail doesn't come to you. So that's basically what a redirect does. It changes the address for you. So it tells people.

Mary (11:08.044)
and traffic and referrals, where to go. If you don't change it, then it just goes nowhere. So that's kind of how to think about it without getting all technical and getting overwhelmed. And like she said, it's relatively easy to learn how to do, but it's so important to redirect to those new pages and let Google know that, this is where we're going now. This is the page that we want to focus on now. Because if you don't, Google just drops.

you know, those pages and all the authority that the original URL built and the links, the ranking history, everything is just lost. And you've lost all that hard work that you put into it in the first place.

Yeah, that was a great analogy because yeah, I'm all about the technical side of it. So that's a good way to explain it with all the technical mumbo jumbo. Another mistake kind of keeping on the trend of comments mistakes we see is deleting high performing content. Redesigns often involve simplifying content. One thing I think is

there's a big difference between SAF specialists and web designers opinions on things is how much content to put on a page. Absolutely. For example, we suggest a service page of like 2500 to 3000 words. Right. And I always follow that up with bear with me. It's not as scary as it sounds. Yeah. Because people's eyes get really wide when I say that.

You just can't out there.

Winnie (12:43.158)
And there's a lot of we can talk some point about kind of what all goes into a service page that large. But web designers, normally they're looking at not necessarily the quantity of the content, which we are focusing on for Google. They do focus on the quality of the content. But we have kind of a different part of quality of the content that we're looking at. And the with a redesign, pages might get shortened, things that might get rewritten, condensed.

blog posts might get removed. We are a big fan of adding FAQs to service pages and having an FAQ page. Those sometimes get removed. Sometimes web designers will suggest combining service pages and we're big on absolutely not having. No, you don't want just an individual therapy page. You want a page for anxiety, for EMDR, for trauma, for if you're...

Winnie (13:42.285)
You know, whatever services you have. So, sorry, go ahead.

No, it's like, so one way that we do that, like say a nutritionist is rebranding or redoing her website and she deletes a bunch of blogs, like all of her blogs related to intuitive eating. And then she doesn't realize that those posts were actually bringing in hundreds of monthly visits.

So what we recommend doing is utilizing Google search console because that tells you what pages are actually getting looked at, what pages are actually getting the impressions, what pages are bringing people to your website. And that will highlight those pages that are really benefiting your website. So those don't get deleted or lost in that transition. Now the ones that have zero clicks, zero impressions, you if you want to hide those, go ahead. But the one that has 500 impressions or, you know, clicks,

Don't hide those because those are the blogs that are really pulling people into your websites through the long tail keywords that are on there. So, you know, don't throw away the pages that are working behind the scenes to really bring people to your website. Utilize the tools that you have during a rebrand like Google Search Console, Google Analytics, all of those things.

You know, I'm always a fan for using Google search. This is a great place to use it. And let's say there we have given the advice before of someone didn't want a page linked like in their in their navigation, but they recognize they couldn't get rid of it for SEO purposes. They weren't up. There was nothing they were. They were OK with like people landing on it from organic. They just didn't want it in their navigation. That's OK, too. Like.

Mary (14:59.478)
No, that's your favorite thing.

Winnie (15:25.088)
I would much rather if you're, you're okay with the page still being there and it's getting good traction with Google and you have people coming from it and it's helping with your authority and your trust with Google, then just unlink it from your navigation menu if need be and let it sit on your website. People can still find it through Google. It's just not there kind of leaked quite as, quite as fully. Yeah.

It was visible. Right. And another thing that often during a transition or moving content that gets lost is, you you work so hard to put those meta titles and descriptions into your pages. And then when you move that data over, those don't always transfer. And so you end up with pages that don't have meta titles or descriptions. And they're really those are critical ranking signals and influence. They influence your click through rates.

because those are what give a brief overview in the snippets of what the page is about. That's where you can put keywords in the meta titles, you know, obviously are telling you what the page is about and titles can get replaced with just one word answers like home or welcome or just things that don't make any sense. Home, what? Welcome to what? There's no context there. So descriptions go blank and get filled with, you know, this the random text.

that WordPress or Squarespace use. So you really want to make sure that you are redoing all your meta titles and your descriptions once you get that content transferred over or you create that new content because those are ranking signals. You know, the metadata is kind of like your billboard and Google search results. Without it, people don't know why they're clicking. They don't know what's the point of clicking on this link that says home.

you know, and they don't know where they're going to end up. So they're going to be a lot less likely to click on your information because they're not seeing those signals. They're not seeing that information. So it's really important to make sure that like before you, if you're going to transfer all your content, I would recommend like taking all your current meta titles and descriptions and making a list of them. So you can just quickly copy and paste them back in when you transfer the content or make sure that they're correct. Just something simple like that, that can save you a ton of

Mary (17:40.908)
headache whenever Google starts seeing your pages and then not understanding what they're for or where they're going.

Absolutely. I think that is a great tip to put it all in like a document so then you don't have to end up redoing all of them. Another thing that this one is kind of getting technical again is wanting to pay attention to your load time of a page. for example, we want to have images on a page and one thing we have to weigh is how many images to how it affects your load time.

making sure photos are compressed. But sometimes those really, really fun, we love to see them heavy animation, the, like a really intricate theme, animation, large photos are all going to slow down your site. So there has to be a balance walked between the aesthetic you're going for out of having those cool things on your site that make it, you know, fun and eye-catchy, but also making sure that

your website is loading fast enough that clients don't potential clients don't just immediately click off because if someone clicks on and it takes forever for a page to load, they're not hanging around to wait for it to load. They're jumping back off, going to the next one in the list. So that can be really important. And while that's not like fully SEO related, it does partake in the SEO. It's a big part of like the technical SEO side of things, making sure it's running smoothly and

It can be great if we can get people to your site through SEO, but if they're immediately jumping off because it's pages taking too long to load, then that's not benefiting you. We use a lot of times Google site speed to check how the load speed and it can give some information, which can be really, really helpful for web designers also of like what's causing it to slow down and that sort of thing.

Mary (19:39.534)
So, and this is really important today because the, you know, over half the people who are looking at your website are looking at your website on a phone. And a website's gonna load a lot different on a mobile device than it is on a desktop. So that's why we really stress that ranking speed and making sure that it's mobile friendly. And then those page insights, that Google page insights that you can test.

It can test both the speed on the desktop and the speed on the mobile website. So you can see how both of them are performing. So you can see if there's something on your mobile load that's really dragging things down and that you can address it. But I mean, we live in a, in a instant gratification society. And if it takes three seconds for something to load on their mobile device, people are going to just swipe to the next thing. So that's why it's really Google uses site speed as a ranking factor, especially for mobile devices.

So that's why it's so important to make sure that your theme and your animations, your images, all fall within the realm of helping that load speed on your mobile device.

Yeah, and that that is something you can run regularly. Yeah, I suggest running it the PageSpeed Insights like as soon as you launch, check it regularly to just make sure everything's running smoothly, technical wise. And then another one is.

Another issue that we can see fairly often is a failure to remove no index tags. So a lot of times, especially when switching platforms, no index switch will be flipped on the pages to make sure Google doesn't catch it while your site is live. Because we don't want duplicate content. We don't Google to realize that you have two pages of the same thing. So that no index tag is turned on, which is great for while you're building things out. The problem becomes once

Winnie (21:33.75)
the other page is removed in your or the other site is removed and you're ready for it to be live. If that no index switch doesn't get turned back off, then Google's not seeing your website because what it is saying is Google don't look at this. This is not something for you to look at. And now I say that with sometimes there are pages on a website that there needs to be a no index tag. Like if you have a cart on the back end of your website that you don't need, there might be a no index tag for that. There are times and places for a no index tag, but you need to

when after redesign, make sure all pages that you want people coming to that the no index switch is turned off.

So now we've talked about all these things that we see that people do wrong. But we do have things that you can do before you redesign, just things that can complete, tasks you can complete to help you do the redesign with SEO in mind. So one of those things is run an SEO audit. Use Google tools like Google Search Console, SEO ranking, screaming frogs.

not screaming frogs, but screaming frog. Identify your most visited pay. Screaming frog sounds a little crazy. Sounds like a rock band of some kind. It's just singular, screaming frog.

Now I need a rock band that's called Screaming Frog.

Mary (22:53.71)
You can also identify your most visited pages, pages that rank for valuable keywords and backlinks. So you want to know your site. You want to know the things on your site that are valuable right now before you transfer all that content over. Which pages are ranking? Which pages are the most visited? Which pages are ranking for the keywords that you want to be found for? What pages have backlinks to them?

So you want to make a list of those or keep that in mind so that when you transfer that stuff over, those are pages that you're paying special attention to. You you wouldn't gut a house without inspecting the foundation. So the same goes for your website. Running an SEO audit is kind of checking that foundation of SEO that you have so that you can move it over when you go and keep all the valuable information intact.

Absolutely. Another one, which you highlighted on earlier is to export your many descriptions, SEO titles and URLs. you can use screaming frog for that. There are sometimes other plugins, especially with WordPress that can help with that. Or you can just make a Google document and you know, have, have a little tab for each page that has that information put over. And I would put your URL for that page so you can match it, your title.

And that SEO title and that meta description so you don't end up having to redo them and you can just easily copy them back in.

Yeah, and another thing is to just lay out your URL changes in advance. Know where each old page is going to point to. If you're going to change the URLs, figure out exactly what page is going where and set up those 301 redirects before you launch. There's no reason why you can't do that. That way when you launch, there's no risk of having those 404 errors. Everything's already in place to redirect to the correct pages and you're good to go.

Winnie (24:49.614)
Another one is to if you're looking at redoing your copy, whether it's updating tone of voice or whatever is kind of leading the charge for changing your copy, plan out how you're going to preserve your keywords on that page. Whether if you're writing it, kind of make a list of the keywords that have been utilized on that page. Make a list of your headings. If you're working with a copywriter, go through it with them and

Tell them what your priorities are. If you can keep the headings, keep your headings. And if you're not gonna keep the headings, make notice of which ones have locations in them, which ones have keywords in them, and make a plan for how you're going to not lose that as you redo your content.

Okay, so now what do you do with all that information that you just collected? During the redesign, it's going to be imperative that you communicate with your designer. You're going to want to tell them that SEO is a priority. You're going to want to give them all of that information that you have, that list of URLs, the list of redirects that need to be completed, the list of pages you want to keep. You're going to need to be communicating with them all of that information so they know what's important.

before they get started and while they're doing the redesign so that they have all of those things in mind while they're redesigning your website. You're going to want to review the content before you launch it. You're going to want to go in and make sure that the headers, the title tags, all of those meta descriptions that you exported are still intact. You want to make sure all your internal links are still going where you want them to. You don't want them to be broken. If you find a broken link,

you know, run a site audit and look for broken links, fix those before you go live. And then test it on mobile and desktop. Like we said, use those tools like Lighthouse from Google to test speed and performance. Look at the accessibility. Make sure you look at your website on a mobile device and make sure that it looks okay, that it's loading okay, that there aren't any wonky images or wonky texts in weird places.

Mary (26:56.822)
and make sure that your images have alt text and all of the things that they need. And all of that can be done during the redesign while you're working with your web designer.

And then there's a list of things to do after your redesign. So you've got it all redesigned. It's looking beautiful. What do we do next? So submit an updated site map in Google search console with Squarespace. It's going to be site map period XML with WordPress. You can go in and get a list of your site maps because they have a variety of different ones. Submit all of them, which is going to tell Google, hey, take a look at my whole site. It's new.

It's we've made changes. We want you to take a look at it. And then you can also use the URL inspection tool in Google Search Console to check if things are indexed. Go through, make sure your pages get indexed that they're seen on Google. I do suggest doing both, especially for your service pages, those main pages. Go through and index your pages.

run a site audit on your website. Make sure you don't have any broken links that all of those 301 redirects that we mentioned implementing have gone through and are set up properly. And if there are any, what we call Forex errors or those broken links, get those fixed as soon as possible. I would say do that before you submit the site map and index your pages actually.

Right, think that's a good point.

Winnie (28:26.81)
keep an eye out on your rankings, monitor it, monitor your average rankings. I will say in any kind of redesign, normally we see a dip, like a dip is going to happen. So what you can do, keep updating your blog content, keep it fresh blog. I will say at least weekly, I've had someone who did a redesign and for where their location specialties was, we had them blogging twice a week on the same, on the subjects and her dip was less.

drastic and it came back up a lot quicker. So you're going to see a dip regardless. Watch it, keep blogging, keep doing best SEO practices, keep monitoring it and making adjustments accordingly. Google loves a site that stays active and you want to show that it's alive, that it's growing, that you're still, even though there's been changes, which Google's like a toddler and doesn't like changes, even though there's changes, you're still giving

quality, consistent quality content, which is really important. And it can feel, I know we just went over all the things that can go wrong with a website redesign. After you've worked on your SEO, we've given you a list of all the things you need to focus on. And it's a lot. But what I will say is it is possible to do a redesign after building your website. Now, for example, when people come to us before starting services, a lot of times we say, if you're considering a redesign, do it before you start in on SEO, because it is.

easier, but you've done redesign, you know, you've done your SEO, you've built it up and you just really want to redesign and have a different look for your website. It is possible. You just, it's going to take some work. And if you're willing to kind of follow the roadmap, put the work in, you can get it rebounded. even, especially if people have better experience on your website, you might see your SEO start to grow after the initial dip.

Yeah, and so, you know, some of the key takeaways is just to keep in mind that having a beautiful website is important. You do want people to feel like it's inviting, it's comfortable, it's the user experience is really well-rounded and great, but don't let that impact your search visibility. Don't let a visual upgrade.

Mary (30:44.576)
overtake search visibility because without that search visibility, nobody's going to see the great work you've done designing your website. So it's really important to manage that SEO and keep that in mind while you're doing your upgrade. I like this analogy, treat SEO like plumbing. It's not seen, but everything depends on it. So true. like it because SEO, it isn't seen. It's mostly done in the background. It's things that we do on pictures on

like it.

Mary (31:14.328)
You know, the back end of pages just tweaks here and there. But Google depends on that to get those ranking signals, to get those ideas of what you're trying to rank for, what you're trying to get across. And just consistently make SEO part of that redesign process from the beginning. Have that mindset from the beginning, right when you talk to your web designer and just say, know, SEO is a priority for me and I want that to be part of the process through the redesign.

cause you know, it can feel empowering to redesign your website, especially if you didn't have a say in the way it was designed in the first place and going in and redesigning it can be empowering. But if you're not protecting your SEO, it might also cost you the online present you've worked, worked so hard to build. just, you know, make it part of the process from the beginning. And that will really make a huge difference in how.

your rankings fluctuate and how you keep your SEO throughout the process.

Absolutely. And when in doubt, talk to someone who knows about SEO. are even a simple, you know, 45 minute conversation can make a big difference in you losing all of your or most of your online standing and keeping it and even making it better at the end.

I mean, and like I said, at Simplified, we offer like strategy sessions that help you go over these types of things that help you make a plan for how to how to transfer to a new website or how to create a website if you're starting from scratch. know, we you know, even if it's not with us, just talk to somebody like when he said who has that experience, who has that knowledge to put you on the path to success in the right direction. Because

Mary (32:59.426)
You don't want to do all of this work, pay all of this money to have your website redesigned just to find out that you're not getting any calls, you're not getting any visibility and you've you you've wasted all this time, effort and energy and nothing's happening. So I think that's the one thing I would just, you know, leave you with today is to just always start with SEO in the front of your mind as you read.

I think that is great advice.

So if you have any questions, feel free to reach out. We love to answer questions.

So if you're considering a redesign or a new website, even like Mary said, feel free to reach out, let us know. We're happy to help answer questions or reach out to a previous SEO company that you work with. Whoever is an expert in your life that does SEO, talk to them from the get go. See if you can connect them with your designer or who is doing the redesign. So that way everybody can be on the same page and get you to where you want to be.

Thank you.

Mary (34:04.782)
think I have one last tip that I want to share. that is also try to find a web designer that specializes or understands what you do, like mental health or helping professional, because that makes things a lot easier because they understand the verbiage, they understand the clientele, they understand where you're coming from and what's important.

And I think having that connection with someone who understands what you do for a living and the process makes a huge difference. Having someone come in who just does random websites for online stores, they're not going to know what needs to be done for someone who has a private therapy practice or a private chiropractic practice or something, because they're going to be like, what do you sell? Where's the shopping cart? All of those things.

So look for somebody who has experience in the field that you're working in. I think that would be something that is also very important.

Yeah, think that's a brilliant idea. Great advice, Mary. Well, thank you all for listening. Let us know if you have any questions, suggestions, and we will talk to you next time.

Goodbye.