Crunchy Stewardship

What to Prioritize First in Your Crunchy Journey with Anna McLaughlin

• Katie Jones • Season 1 • Episode 29

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After spending $20,000 trying to fix her family's health issues, Anna McLaughlin learned a powerful lesson: striving and fear never lead to healing. Join us as Anna shares her journey from corporate lawyer to homeschooling mom, and how she went from doing ALL the crunchy things to finding peace in what really matters. We take a biblical approach to the overwhelming question: 'Where do I start?' Hint: it begins with abiding in the Father, not frantically searching for the next supplement or solution.

In this episode, we discuss:

  • Anna's journey down the crunchy rabbit hole and what she learned
  • Why striving and control can actually hinder our healing
  • The free tools God has already given us 
  • How to set a health budget with your spouse and move forward as a team
  • The courage to wait on the Lord instead of constantly doing
  • Practical steps for prioritizing what matters most for your family's health

Resources Mentioned:

  • Anna's Podcast: Overwhelmed to Overcomer (available on all podcast platforms and YouTube) https://open.spotify.com/show/5G6UwkBk5iyfec2gr5XhED?si=34d43ced0b1f4ffe 
  • Katie's Guest Episode on Overwhelmed to Overcomer https://open.spotify.com/episode/4EXP70osa4jzvQJwQCtTMG?si=f7jMLx3WSOe9YcxxZ40E-A
  • Free Guide: Overwhelmed to Overcomer - https://subscribepage.io/from-overwhelmed-to-overcomer
  • Book: The True Vine by Andrew Murray https://amzn.to/48rIXQN
  • NACD (National Academy of Child Development): Miracles of Child Development - free audio resource on parenting and discipline

Connect with Anna:

  • YouTube: @sheconsidersafield

Connect With Us:

Join Our Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/crunchychristianmama

Follow us on Instagram @crunchystewardship

FREE How to Afford Non-Toxic Living Workbook: https://crunchystewardship.com/how-to-afford-non-toxic-living

Hey, and welcome to Crunchy Stewardship. My name is Katie Fiola Jones. Chrissy and I are cousins who are passionate about learning and sharing knowledge to equip others to steward their spiritual, mental, emotional, financial, and physical health in order to honor God in every aspect of their lives. In our podcast, we take deep dives into what it means to steward our lives as God originally intended for us with the resources that he has given us. We look at topics such as food, medicine, finances, mental health, and lots more through a natural lens and with a biblical foundation. Today is another special episode. Obviously Chrissy is not here with me again, but I do have a very special guest with me for this episode, so you don't have to listen to me rambling on this time. Hopefully you enjoyed that episode where it was just myself sharing some free tips on how to start to live a non-toxic lifestyle and honor God with your body and your finances. This episode is with a good friend of mine, Anna, who is going to talk to us a little bit about what do we do when there is just so much overwhelm with the options that we can choose when it comes to our. Health and wellness journeys. Obviously Chrissy and I have gone through so many different areas of health and wellness and it can feel really overwhelming at times when you feel like you need to do so many different things differently. Well, in this episode, Anna is going to give us some practical tips on what we can be doing when we feel that overwhelm. Um, and, and just taking a step back. This whole health and wellness journey, we do want to be good stewards of our bodies and our resources and our energy even. And so she's going to give us some practical tips on how to do that. This episode you'll get to hear, um, a few words from Malachi as well. We were recording this episode kind of in the middle of the day, and Malachi was supposed to be napping, however, that did not happen. Well, actually, he was napping. I accidentally woke him up. It was a whole thing that it was, you know, it was just a challenge. This episode is also coming out a little bit later than usual because there were some technical challenges that I had when editing this episode, and so I don't know. It felt very much like there were some spiritual attacks going on. In the process of getting this episode out. Um, so yeah, maybe, I mean, it, as I was re-listening to this episode, I think that there was a reason why Satan was attacking it, because in this episode we. Just bring it all back to Jesus and remind ourselves not to make this health and wellness journey an idle. And I think that the enemy was not happy about that. And so I think there's something to be said about all of these challenges that we faced getting this episode out there to you. So take that, um, in mind, you know, hold that in your heart as you listen to this episode. Um, and I'm just praying that you will be spiritually refreshed. Uh. From this episode with Anna, so let us know what you think about it. This is our second episode with a guest as well. So if you enjoy having, like getting the chance to hear from other people in the health and wellness kind of crunchy Christian space, let us know so that way we can find other people to bring on. And if there's like a specialist or someone that you'd love to hear from, let us know as well and we can try to find those people to, uh, bring on and. Just get to hear a little bit more from a different perspective and people who kind of know things because again, Chrissy and I don't know all the things all the time, and so it's great getting to hear from others and get some new opinions and thoughts and ideas out there. So anyway, with that, we will jump into the conversation with Anna.

Katie:

Okay, everyone. So now we're going to introduce our wonderful guest today, Anna mcl.

Anna McLaughlin:

mla.

Katie:

Is it McLaughlin? Is that how you pronounce it?

Anna McLaughlin:

That it could be one of

Katie:

Great.

Anna McLaughlin:

things. You got it?

Katie:

Yeah, and I just second guess myself right there. I should have just gone for it confidently. I am really excited to have you here today, Anna. Just a, a brief intro and then I wanna, I want you to tell people who you are and what you do, but Anna and I met, gosh, it's probably been at least six months, six months ago through, it was a po It's uh, what's that platform called?

Anna McLaughlin:

it

Katie:

Uh.

Anna McLaughlin:

where we met or was it something else?

Katie:

It was pod match. So yeah, it was at the time where I was just trying to get on more podcasts myself as a guest and pod match helps guests and podcasts meet. And we kind of met, and honestly,

Anna McLaughlin:

It

Katie:

was around the time where my cousin and I, Chrissy, who would do this podcast together, we're talking about doing a podcast together

Anna McLaughlin:

and

Katie:

we were just getting things started ourselves.

Anna McLaughlin:

but I

Katie:

I was getting on more podcasts to talk about faith and finances at the time.

Anna McLaughlin:

And

Katie:

so I had originally kind of reached out to you saying like, Hey, I'd love to talk about money and, but I also see that you're kind of in this like crunchy space. Like I remember going through your website and being so excited that I found you because at that point

Anna McLaughlin:

I

Katie:

did not know a lot of other kind of crunchy people besides my cousin and a few of my friends. And so I just got really excited about that and I was like, I also kind of would love to talk a little bit about this because it is actually a passion of mine

Anna McLaughlin:

just to

Katie:

to talk about like health and wellness and family and all these wonderful topics from a biblical perspective. So I was so excited to connect with you. And now here we are, my cousin and I have this podcast that I think I told you about at the time,

Anna McLaughlin:

you did

Katie:

and yeah, and I'm like, I would love to have you on our podcast just to. To talk and share a little bit of your journey and some of the things that are really, that you're really passionate about. So yeah, that's my quick intro of why you're here. But why don't you tell us a little bit more about who you are and what you do and, and what you're passionate about, and even what your podcast kind of goes into

Anna McLaughlin:

Yeah, so my name is Anna. I'm a homeschooling mom of four. My kids are ages 13 to seven, and um, and I also have a podcast Overwhelmed to Overcomer, and that is a podcast that's really geared towards ministering to Christian women and helping to walk out. purpose from a place of really being rooted in the love of God. So my, my primary core values are, um, belonging, stewardship, and co and courage. So the belonging pieces, not only first and foremost belonging with into the father, really leaning into that John 15 vine and branches walk. But then from there, what does it look like to belong with ourselves, to feel, you know, safe in who we are and, and confident in that, what does it look like to belong with those we love and to have healthy relationships, healthy family systems and all of that. I'm a first generation Christian, so there was a lot of undoing to do. And so there's, there's a big emphasis on that in the, in the overwhelm to overcome our conversation. then, um, stewardship. You know, we, we aren't saved through our works. I really like Wes Huff these days. He's a theologian I've been listening to a lot. Uh, he says, we're not saved by our works, but we're saved for works. Like then for, for once we're saved. Then it's like, okay, now we walk this thing out by advancing the kingdom, our, um, our work is to glorify God and to enjoy him forever. That's part of the, oh, one of the, the Wesley. lost it anyway. It's one of those catechisms, it's one of the ca it's one of the Catechisms Westminster. There we go. And so, um, so steward stewardship. How do we, how do we be faithful with what we've been given? And then, um, and that only works when we first belong.'cause otherwise we're in shoulds and not toss. And then courage. Just, we need guts. We need guts to trust God. We need guts to trust other people. We need guts to be brave and go out and do the thing. So that's what we talk about in overwhelm to overcomer. I have amazing guests like you. Come on. I share my own thoughts of what the Lord's doing in my life. It's always current. So I'm like, literally yesterday I was praying and here's where we are today. So, um, I've been doing that for about two years and really all the businesses are quiet right now. I, I did coaching for a season. I have this dream of doing retreats and um, really the focus right now is home. And then this podcast is my little offering to the world.

Katie:

Yeah, I think you and I are in a similar season of just having businesses and have been, you know, we've had that kind of stuff, but God has called us to be present with our families, but it's always so fun to. Have kind of these passion projects on the side to get to still share with the world. I

Anna McLaughlin:

have

Katie:

always kind of considered myself an educator in many different realms, and this is one of those ways in which I can still be teaching and sharing

Anna McLaughlin:

what

Katie:

God is, is, you know, sharing with me, but not in, I don't know. I feel like with podcasting there is kind of like a,

Anna McLaughlin:

it's,

Katie:

it's, it's a little bit more freeing. There's a lot more space to like, just

Anna McLaughlin:

yourself.

Katie:

and get to share. Yeah. What's current, like what is really going on right now? This podcast, we're gonna be recording it and it is going to come out I think this week. So it's like, it is go, it's so fresh. Like it is just right here, right now.

Anna McLaughlin:

It's,

Katie:

But we're not here to talk about podcasting necessarily. Um, I actually have you on today to talk about kind of crunchy stuff, but. From the perspective of like, what really is important, because so many of our listeners and my friends who come to me and ask all the questions,

Anna McLaughlin:

um,

Katie:

one of the biggest questions that I get from everyone is like, what do I do first? What is going to make the biggest impact? You know, what do I need to be doing right now? Like, is this thing really that important or should I focus on something else? And so there is,

Anna McLaughlin:

there's

Katie:

so much, and this crunchy world really can be very overwhelming.

Anna McLaughlin:

Yeah.

Katie:

I mean, Christy and I have already had, you know, 20 plus episodes and most of them are all about different things. And so if you count that as like 20 plus different topics,

Anna McLaughlin:

looks

Katie:

like there are just so many different things

Anna McLaughlin:

That

Katie:

we could be doing. But it really does come down to the question of what's the most important and. Yeah. Where do we focus our energy and our resources? So if we're thinking about it from a stewardship perspective, we can't just go and spend all our money on every single thing that we hear about when we hear about it. So yeah, why don't you share with us what your

Anna McLaughlin:

kind of

Katie:

of theory and how you approach that topic.

Anna McLaughlin:

so, so I'll start with where I started in the crunchy world, because I have a feeling this might resonate there. There's a little bit, it's, it's often described as, and then I went down the rabbit hole, right? And all of a sudden now I'm seeing all the things. for me, the rabbit hole was basically about 14 years ago. I was pregnant with our

Katie:

Hmm.

Anna McLaughlin:

and um, and I started going to a chiropractor because a friend of mine really liked him and what he had to say. And so we went from very traditional OB GYN oversight, you know, and I, and I would say things like, well, I really wanna have a natural birth. And her response was, it's just, you just have to be flexible. You just have to let it play out. And, you know, fast forward six months, several of my friends were under her care and those that were all ended up with C-sections. And so, so for me, and come to find out that the, I live in Charlotte, North Carolina, the C-section rate is about a third. And, um,

Katie:

Whoa.

Anna McLaughlin:

and World Health Organization says anything over 11% is probably malpractice. At least that

Katie:

Um,

Anna McLaughlin:

14 years ago. Okay. So,

Katie:

that's crazy.

Anna McLaughlin:

crazy. So. I'm on this very traditional path, you know, McDonald's is just kind of the, the, my bread and butter on a busy day. And, um, and I start going to talk to the, going to this chiropractor's, um, seminars and stuff. And all of a sudden we're having conversations about, um, about just different types of medications and what do we do about, um, shots and what do we do about the birth process itself? What kind of care should we be under? And um, and food and healthy fats and meats and quality of vegetables and all of these different things. And I remember at one point sitting on my couch crying and telling my husband, I can't eat anything. I was either pregnant or just had the baby. And, um, you know, because all of a sudden everything I thought was kind of neutral at, you

Katie:

Mm-hmm.

Anna McLaughlin:

um, was, was bad for me. And

Katie:

Mm-hmm.

Anna McLaughlin:

I didn't know where to start. So I went about it like a typical Type A in my twenties and decided that we were just gonna do all the things, absolutely everything, all at the same time. And, um, I was a corporate lawyer at the time, so we did have some means. So we just started pouring money into chiropractic and healthier foods and. I don't even remember all the whole essential oils. Everything that people told me was the thing. I did it. And my husband kept saying like, if you're gonna leave your job, you know, we, we really can't.'cause that was the goal was for me to not be a lawyer anymore. Which, you know, got, we, we got the opportunity to do that a couple years in, but I just couldn't imagine not having these things.'cause you're, you're supposed to, you know, you're supposed to have these things. well, so that's where I started and if that sounds familiar, I think that's where a lot of us start with the crunchy world.'cause all of a sudden we see it, we can't unsee it, and then we join a couple of Facebook groups and everybody's talking about everything. And what I will say is this. There can be a lot of legalism and there can be some blinders because each person, you know, it's kind of that adage every, um, to a hammer, everything's a nail, right? And so if you're a chiropractor, it's all about spinal alignment. If you're an essential oils person, it's all about the oils. If

Katie:

Mm-hmm.

Anna McLaughlin:

nutritionist, it's all about, you know, clean meats and healthy fats and farm to table. And I mean, I remember we went out to dinner at a vegan restaurant one night and it was like$200 for the two of us. And we were like, we're not even full. The gourmet

Katie:

boy.

Anna McLaughlin:

right. You know, and it's just,

Katie:

Yes.

Anna McLaughlin:

days when you're a corporate lawyer, you can swing that these days. You know, believe it or not, I'm sure you know this, Katie, stay-at-home. Moms don't get paid that much.

Katie:

Not much at all.

Anna McLaughlin:

How about that? So we, um, so. person would kind of tell us the importance of their modality and they believed it. And you know what? Like, that's great. They should, they should be that passionate about what they're offering. Um, but we spent a, we spent a lot of money and a lot of time, and here's what shifted everything for me. Katie, I'll give you this as a counterpoint. And this is really where I stand. It's gonna be frustrating for some of your people who just are like, gimme the list. I want the list. But I'm all about that

Katie:

Mm-hmm.

Anna McLaughlin:

with the father, so I'm gonna take you there instead. Um, so I, I hit a point where my husband got a knee replacement. My toddler at the time, my youngest was completely all about daddy, 1000%. And so, and my husband all of a sudden can't go upstairs and put him to bed. And so here I am getting ready to be solo momming for the next several weeks while my husband recovers from this knee replacement. And I know my son's gonna have like a nightmare on his hands because he wants daddy all the time. And I broke out in hives, like all over my body,

Katie:

Oh

Anna McLaughlin:

everywhere. they didn't, they didn't go away like the spots left, but I was itchy for months. I spent

Katie:

wow.

Anna McLaughlin:

$1,200 on an amazing functional medicine person. She got me on the supplements, she did testing. We did all these different things. And it became almost like this obsession of mine, this full-time job of like, I'm itchy all the time,

Katie:

Trying to cure it. Yeah.

Anna McLaughlin:

And there came a point where the Lord was like, will you accept that you're itchy right now? Like, just stop.

Katie:

Oh wow.

Anna McLaughlin:

And I entered into a season of basically rest. I took baths, I took walks, I took naps. Not even necessarily to try to fix the problem, but just really what was happening, unbeknownst to me, and the Lord was just leading me through, is he was helping me calm down my nervous system. I sat, so it was Epsom salt bass. I sat, I sat outside in the sunshine with my feet in the grass. I drank water. I slept. And wouldn't, you know, one day my husband looked at me and he's like, you haven't talked about being itchy in a really long time. And I was like, oh, it was gone.

Katie:

Yep.

Anna McLaughlin:

And I needed that lesson so desperately. And I feel, and this is my invitation to you who are listening, if you've been frantically trying to pin down the list of where do I start, if you've had conversations with your husband where he is, like, if we buy all organic and double our grocery bill, that's not sustainable. Or some, yeah, we're gonna have to pick up extra shifts or here's how our life's gonna change. you know, it's, we're not gonna live forever. It's not gonna be all perfect and buttoned up. We all have what I like to call weak ankles. You know, for me it's my mental health. That's what starts to go if I'm not taking care of myself, my husband's got joint issues, you know, I know people with skin issues. Like we've got, we've

Katie:

Mm-hmm.

Anna McLaughlin:

ankles and so what's the work to be with the father? know, we start and we end there and then from there, watch for where he's leading you. that's really what it's all about. When we've tuned our hearts to him, then if there's a thing that needs done,'cause see what the crunchy community can, can get in is they can get in a deficit mindset where it's like you're lacking this. And I remember being so excited for different purchases. We bought a small red light, we bought an air purifier, and I was like, this is it. This is gonna end the congestion issues, this is gonna end the digestive issues, this is gonna end the joint issues. And we, spent bunches of money. And when I'm

Katie:

Yep.

Anna McLaughlin:

bunches, like for us, because we at, at a point in time had the means. Um, there was a year where we spent I think almost$20,000 on chiropractic care. Can you imagine

Katie:

Yep. Yeah, that's a lot. That is a lot.

Anna McLaughlin:

Because it was.

Katie:

I love the chiropractor, but that is a lot. Yeah.

Anna McLaughlin:

we were gonna fix it, right? We're gonna fix

Katie:

Yeah.

Anna McLaughlin:

had a lot of joint issues, digestive issues really didn't feel good. And so I'm on it, babe, I'm gonna figure this

Katie:

Hmm.

Anna McLaughlin:

I'm gonna solve. And man, are we walking in love when we're solving a puzzle?

Katie:

Wow.

Anna McLaughlin:

so that's where I come down is, is if we, and one of the really simple tests is like, am I operating in the, the fruits of the spirit or am I not? So

Katie:

Mm-hmm.

Anna McLaughlin:

am I coming from a place of love and joy and peace? Or I'm kind of sitting back and going, okay, Lord, what's next? Oh, this just keeps coming across my vision. Oh, this just keeps

Katie:

Mm-hmm.

Anna McLaughlin:

Is this the next thing? Wow. We have an extra$200 that we weren't expecting. And that's the exact price of that thing. Like, that's where we're really coming from, a place of abiding. And what the, what the, me being itchy season really taught me was. I can do all the right things. And if I'm coming at it from a place of striving and fear and control, I'm never gonna end up in the right place. And then conversely, there's so much the Lord gives us that's just free, you know, breathing and

Katie:

Mm-hmm.

Anna McLaughlin:

and naps and grass,

Katie:

Sunshine.

Anna McLaughlin:

right? And all of a sudden now I'm in a place of abundance where there's more than enough for me to feel well enough to serve in the way that he called me. And for a season that meant I served itchy, right? I served my

Katie:

Mm-hmm.

Anna McLaughlin:

and I itched. And that was uncomfortable. But he gave me the grace to do it. And then it got to a point where I didn't even notice that it was gone because I was looking somewhere else.

Katie:

Wow. You and I sound very similar in many areas of our lives. I didn't realize how much we actually had in common. My crunchy journey really started with pregnancy as well, and I had decided I was going to do a natural birth. I would not have called myself crunchy in many regards. I didn't even really know what that phrase was. I, you know, I lived in Colorado at the time, which I, I don't know if I told you. I think I did. I moved to Michigan, so I live in Michigan now. And not Colorado, but in,

Anna McLaughlin:

of making that

Katie:

that's right.

Anna McLaughlin:

like boxing things up and everything.

Katie:

Totally. So in Colorado, the word crunchy usually was also like intermixed with the word granola, which tended to be more earthly eco-friendly and stuff, which comes out of like Boulder. So that was like my interpretation of it. So when I started hearing words like crunchy, I was like, no, that's not me. But then I started really learning more about it and I'm like, oh yeah, no, a lot of these things do align with where I'd like to go and, and the things I wanna learn. But are you a firstborn?

Anna McLaughlin:

I, well, I'm a functional firstborn. I'm nine years younger than my brother, so the bro, I'm functionally actually

Katie:

Got it? Mm-hmm.

Anna McLaughlin:

defining it, which is every seven years you have a new, a new only. So

Katie:

Yeah. Okay. That makes sense.

Anna McLaughlin:

if you can believe it, Katie, but we're really weird.

Katie:

Oh,

Anna McLaughlin:

my brother's my full brother, nine years older than my little sister was adopted when I was 18. So I've got a,

Katie:

oh, yeah.

Anna McLaughlin:

baby, a little middle, a little only all mixed together. But yeah,

Katie:

Very fascinating.

Anna McLaughlin:

the type A, I've got a lot of first born in me and you'd think I was the first born until you see my brother and then you're like, oh, he's the first Bornes firstborn of

Katie:

Oh my gosh. So yeah, my, so Christy and I are both firstborns and hence we both love figuring things out and learning all the things. And when you were explaining like

Anna McLaughlin:

your

Katie:

husband being this like problem or puzzle that you have to solve, that is a hundred percent me. And in fact, just this past week, I totally did the same thing. He had like this mysterious rash and I went through all the things. I was like, this is gonna solve it, and it didn't, and then this is gonna solve it, and then it didn't, and then this is gonna solve it and it didn't. And it was.

Anna McLaughlin:

it

Katie:

ended up being our

Anna McLaughlin:

laundry

Katie:

detergent that, oh, of course. I tried to go the little crunchy route and I made our own laundry detergent, but it was too potent and it was irritating

Anna McLaughlin:

Oh, the

Katie:

him. And so he was getting, yeah, he was getting some, uh, underarm like rashes. So it was like

Anna McLaughlin:

all

Katie:

my other, like oils and lotiony things and all these things. Nothing was working and it was just as simple as

Anna McLaughlin:

changing

Katie:

that. And, and we have, we have some other free and clear stuff that I'm like, let's see if this will do it.

Anna McLaughlin:

And

Katie:

sure enough,

Anna McLaughlin:

but I'm

Katie:

in that same space where I love having a puzzle to solve. I, I love puzzles so much, and so I often see people as a puzzle to solve, and I see my problems as just like this puzzle to solve with some health something. And I, yeah, I often go down the route of like, oh, let's go to the chiropractor. Oh, let's, you know, consider acupuncture here, or let's see what oil fixes this. So

Anna McLaughlin:

it,

Katie:

it really can be overwhelming. Especially too, like you said, there are so many people who specialize in these areas and they're like, This is going to be the thing that will solve your problem. And you try that thing and it maybe it helps. Like we, we tried a essential oil, coconut oil mixture and he's, and he's like, yeah, it's kind of helping relieve the itchiness and some of the tenderness. But the rash was still there for a couple days. So then we tried something else and then we tried, you know, so, oh, actually I think you were the one who told me about, uh, a little bit more about homeopathy, or you had someone on your podcast who talked about homeopathy. I listened to that podcast episode of yours. And so we've actually done some homeopathic remedies for certain things that have definitely helped

Anna McLaughlin:

with

Katie:

certain ailments. Um.

Anna McLaughlin:

And

Katie:

So I, again, same thing. I was like, I'm gonna look up which homeopathic remedy is gonna fix it. And the one that I ended up going with didn't really seem like it did the job. And

Anna McLaughlin:

anyway,

Katie:

it, I totally understand that, and I feel like there are so many people that do kind of say the same thing to me where they're like, oh yeah, I thought this one solution would be it, but it didn't help. Or maybe it only helped a little bit and so they had to go onto the next thing. So yeah, it's, it's all very overwhelming.

Anna McLaughlin:

It can be. And, and that's why I love to start with Jesus, right? To really

Katie:

Hmm.

Anna McLaughlin:

with the father and that place of intimacy, because it's all, it's all true, right? So there's the place of like, let's not be too quick to jump to the next thing. Are we operating out of a sense of fear? But then there's also this place of stewardship of like, let's move our feet. You know? And I love the phrase, none of it is wasted, right? And the father, none of it is wasted. And so when we, you know, when we spent$20,000 on a chiropractor and it didn't do anything for us, well, part of that was part of my lesson to, and I can't say it didn't do anything. Sometimes how do you know, especially with kids, because they're always developing. So

Katie:

Oh, totally.

Anna McLaughlin:

where would they have been without this, I don't know. How do you

Katie:

Mm-hmm.

Anna McLaughlin:

'cause you can only walk down one path at a time. You can't live in both worlds. And so, you know, was part of that just our, um, lesson learned, which we could absorb at the time because we were, you know, we were earning a decent income, um, a really good income. And so now that's a piece of my story. And so if that's what it took, okay. Right. So that now we don't make those choices. So, um, so kind of freely and, you know, the other thing that's so beautiful about being a child of God is, um, a. So a friend of mine would share these wonderful stories of, yeah, I walked into Goodwill and here's this amazing pot that like costs 80 bucks most of the time and it was$2. And like, God just loves me so much. And I was like, God, like I want a$2 pot. he was like, Anna, you A, you don't need one'cause you can afford the$80 pot. And B, you don't stop and give me a chance to give you the$2 pot'cause you're on Amazon within 30 seconds. And so we really need that like moment to sit and wait and just say, okay, you going to correct this Because he knows our budget, he knows our bandwidth and our abilities. I mean we're actually healthier now than we've ever been. And we're spending money on less, like almost nothing.'cause I kind of went to this, and I'll touch on this briefly too. We went to this, um, kind of ground zero place where for a while I was representing a supplement company. And then I was like, it really didn't, it was good, but was it the best for everybody or were people buying it because of me was it their

Katie:

Yeah. Wow.

Anna McLaughlin:

And so that was really humbling for me to sit and go, okay, I'm not offering anything to anybody. And this is actually the beginning of my decision to lay down all the businesses. Um, but I think, you know, really brought a conviction to me of I'm not comfortable representing something because there will be people who will buy it because they, they care about me, they like me, and maybe it's not their best, especially for people who are really relational. And so we went to ground zero and bought nothing, and I was like, why don't I use up all this stuff that's in our house? And so I'm like, oh look, we've got a multivitamin. We'll take that for a while and. I don't know whether it's just, the Lord knows right now with me not working, that we don't have the financial means to be spending, spending, spending, spending. And so he's just tending to our health in, in a, honestly, in a supernatural way. Right. I don't know whether, whether it's because we're operating in more peace and less fear, and so that's actually our nervous system from getting hijacked and us getting sick. is it that, you know, now we maybe didn't need some of those things to begin with and we, it was just white noise in the background. I don't know. But that's why it, I mean, it's like I said, some, some of, some of your listeners, like friend, if you're hearing this and you're like, just gimme an answer, go to the father. That's what I have.'cause it's all true.

Katie:

Yeah, and I completely agree because, oh, there are so many moments that I have experienced as well where I will question

Anna McLaughlin:

everything I'm

Katie:

I'm doing, especially too when I come across a piece of information

Anna McLaughlin:

that

Katie:

almost contradicts something somebody else told me, and I'm like, wait a minute now I'm so confused because

Anna McLaughlin:

this

Katie:

person said that this was the right path and, and this is going to

Anna McLaughlin:

be

Katie:

be the solution. But now

Anna McLaughlin:

this

Katie:

person is kind of saying something slightly different and

Anna McLaughlin:

It's

Katie:

again, it, it just gets so clouded and you have to wonder like, what is the truth? And there are so many moments where I have to pause and just put.

Anna McLaughlin:

everything

Katie:

aside. And what, what actually works best for me is

Anna McLaughlin:

turning

Katie:

off social media, deleting it from my phone, because that's often where all the confusion comes from is like, someone said this, but next, the, the real right after that says another thing. And then this person says that this thing is now toxic and it's killing all of us. And it's all the, and there's a lot of fear that people are pumping out and often they're selling something. So I get very, I can get very overwhelmed many times. And so for me, the best thing to do is really just to turn it all off,

Anna McLaughlin:

Yep.

Katie:

get into the word. I mean, honestly, even just playing worship music to kind of recenter my heart is so. Helpful and so beneficial. And honestly, it makes me a better wife and mother at the same time because a lot of that overwhelm

Anna McLaughlin:

tends

Katie:

to get pushed out and portrayed to other people that don't necessarily deserve it. So, uh, I So what,

Anna McLaughlin:

Is

Katie:

there something that you can recommend to us?

Anna McLaughlin:

So.

Katie:

So, yes, the first place that we need to go is to the father and spending time with him and in prayer and, and letting him. Lead and guide us

Anna McLaughlin:

yeah. With

Katie:

wisdom into the right direction.

Anna McLaughlin:

Yeah.

Katie:

Is there maybe a next

Anna McLaughlin:

right

Katie:

step or piece of

Anna McLaughlin:

like a, that

Katie:

a tip that you would give us to kind of like

Anna McLaughlin:

make

Katie:

that decision

Anna McLaughlin:

so

Katie:

that maybe people might be able to avoid kind of having your chiropractic moment where they're like, I'm gonna pour in all this money to this place and maybe it's the right place or not. Like how do we then make that decision or distinction with what thing to choose next?

Anna McLaughlin:

so, so I'll preface that by saying, first of all, I think that there's a, there's, there's a trap that we can fall into that's helpful to just be aware of on the front end, which is there is, um, there's this sense in really all. All paths, even in the. Path of faith or the path of, um, you know, homeschooling our children and then of course for the path of the, of this crunchy walk, that it's all linear. There is a right step, there is a right path. And so we can end up getting like, well, which is it?

Katie:

Mm-hmm.

Anna McLaughlin:

one. And even in the food arena, we've got our, um, our, our functional medicine support. Basically our doctor, um,

Katie:

Mm-hmm.

Anna McLaughlin:

encouraging us to do whole food plant-based. And then our, um, our gym membership is really encouraging us to do paleo, which is basically like meat. And so literally the two cannot both be.

Katie:

Totally.

Anna McLaughlin:

They,

Katie:

Mm-hmm.

Anna McLaughlin:

be the right path for us. But the important thing to recognize is that, um, there, there isn't one universal right path. And that's okay. So it real, that's why, that's why I say it all comes back to the father. And so recognizing, um, I view my podcast, for example, as more of a sampler platter of ideas because if you listen to the whole two years, even my own recommendations would change over time. Where it's like, oh, I thought she said this, I thought she said this.

Katie:

Yeah.

Anna McLaughlin:

and many of them, they, they can all coexist, but it's just where do we go first? You know, do I sit back and wait for the father to lead? Do I take action? don't know. on what's your, what's your tendency? Is it more courageous for you to sit and be, or is it more courageous? Does it require more faith for you to sit and abide for a little bit and be willing to lay it down? Does it take more courage and faith for you to take action? You know, and that's

Katie:

Wow.

Anna McLaughlin:

the, so then we're digging into those types of questions. And so, um, I think it's important to remember there is not one known truth around health that you need to ferret out. Okay? There are many. Good tools and which one you need is something that ultimately only God himself knows and can reveal to you. Because everybody's gonna say, you start with the nervous system, you start with sleep, you start with hydration, blah, blah, blah, blah. So there's that. Okay. So that's the first thing I'd say. Just keep that premise in mind at all times, because otherwise you are going to go all in on the next best tool. And it can, it can be very expensive and very time consuming. um, and can have, like you talked about, Katie, relational implications, especially if you

Katie:

Mm-hmm.

Anna McLaughlin:

usually it's the wife because we are the detail, God

Katie:

Mm-hmm.

Anna McLaughlin:

see the details. And, um, I love an old pastor of mine described it as, um, I set, it's like a football game. So of course it was a football analogy, right? And he said, I set the boundaries of play then my wife calls the calls, the plays from there. So she's the creative, right? She's creating, here's how we're making memories, here are our traditions, here's how we do school, here's what we do during mealtime. And then, um, and then the, the husband provides a ton of freedom for the wife to do that. Um, but then he sets the field of play like, here's our budget, you know, here's how much I'm willing to give to the crunchy endeavors. And then you pick what's next, babe, right? And so having that sense of partnership is I think, really healthy from there. The first thing I would do is fill your cup with all the free stuff. So

Katie:

Yes.

Anna McLaughlin:

are you in prayer? Are you walk? Are you living in gratitude, like one of the most, um. One of the strongest correlations for health is what's going on between our ears in our, in our own mind. If we're negative, if we're fearful, if we're anxious, if we're condemning, if we're ungrateful, we are going to be sicker then if we are grateful at ease at rest and we can't force that, but we know what the source is, right, right back to the father. So, you know, I literally will, while just kind of when I'm feeling a certain kind of way, I'll just play worship music and just imagine it kind of filling our home and kind of pushing out. One of the things we learn in homeschool is that air takes up space. And so I imagine that worship music pushing out all the fear, all the anxiety, and taking up a

Katie:

I love that.

Anna McLaughlin:

isn't that sweet. All the

Katie:

That's so cute.

Anna McLaughlin:

get and so all the free stuff. And so here's a, here's a few, a list of a few things that are free. So praise and worship, you know, really being in the word memorizing scripture. Um, there's a great theologian, Derek Prince, he died I think 20 years ago. He was sick in the hospital. I think it was while he was in. Um, he was, uh, in the military. I think he was in the British military. And he read the, I think it was in the Psalms that says, um, your word is my medicine. And so he is like, how do you take medicine? Because he was sick at the time. How do you take medicine three times a day with meals? So three times a day he would, um, read the word as medicine and he was healed. And so, um, so you know, are we in the word? And then how's our sleep? Are we getting, you know, seven plus hours a night? How's our hydration? Are we drinking? Most people say half your body weight and water. Uh, maybe electrolytes would serve as well. right? Epsom salt

Katie:

Hmm.

Anna McLaughlin:

are great little detox tools. That's not free, but it's pretty darn cheap. Um, grounding. Get your toes in the grass, get

Katie:

Yeah.

Anna McLaughlin:

turned up to the sun. Uh, personally, my my belief is that the things God made are good. And so I'm, I'm down with sunshine, you know, maybe I'm

Katie:

Yeah.

Anna McLaughlin:

all day, but I, I don't, I don't wear sunscreen. I just watch when I'm out. Um, and that's, that's not a, here's what you should do, but I'm just saying, I get the real sun. I

Katie:

Mm-hmm.

Anna McLaughlin:

the real

Katie:

Mm-hmm.

Anna McLaughlin:

roll up my sleeves, get my feet without socks, without shoes, without anything that's, that's, uh, not natural between me and the ground. And, um, and really get that, get that exposure. There's something that's like, it literally resets our, ah, what is it? Some sort of magnetic, there's like a magnetic

Katie:

Yes.

Anna McLaughlin:

Yeah. So I

Katie:

Yes.

Anna McLaughlin:

I don't know. So, um. Touch. Are you getting hugs? Are you getting laughter? Connection, right? Like, think

Katie:

Yeah.

Anna McLaughlin:

all the free things the Lord has given us, nourishing our minds. Have you picked up a book lately? Um, you know, even just opening the windows while you're at home. Um, breathing is a powerful one. My, uh, the coach that I worked with for a number of months, he would have me breathe in through the nose and out through the mouth with a ha. And I mean, just one breath, I feel better. Um, so what.

Katie:

Yeah,

Anna McLaughlin:

then get nerdy about it. What else can I, what else can I bring into our home that's free, right? How else can I minister to my family music, right? There's, there's this really cool stuff about the frequencies of like classical music and worship music in comparison.

Katie:

just reading that. Yeah.

Anna McLaughlin:

Yeah. So get nerdy and just see Lord, because, and I'm not, it's not all about the money. There is a time and a place for investing in something there's a lot out there that is just right there for you. So that's, that's my fir that's the first step that I would suggest. And you know, I mean, one of my maladies, my itchiness was healed through free stuff, naps and connection and breathing and rest. And so grab hold of as much of that as you possibly can. If, if money's not a concern. If you're on the same page with your partner, one of the things that I talk about and you can grab, I have a podcast episode called Hierarchy of Covenants in overwhelm to overcomer, one of the way early ones in 2024, probably in the spring. Um, of the things the Lord gave me that's been very helpful is this idea of what our order of, um, relational like hierarchy. I like basically what do we put first and so first our relationship with God. Then if we're married, it's our relationship with our spouse. Then if we have children, it's our relationship with our children and then it's everyone else. So I. So being mindful of what, what is my husband's conviction on all of this? Is he setting the field of play of like,'cause if there's any sort of tension and conflict, it might be that you just need to set a number.'cause he's gonna look at the big, big picture and see the money going out the door and be like nervous about it. So if there, so it might be that just setting a boundary is gonna set things at ease. Like, Hey, I'm still working this out. I don't know what's gonna be the most beneficial for us or not. Can we, do we have$200 a month,$50 a month of room for me to start playing with organic foods or supplements or electrolytes or you know, chiropractic care or whatever it is. Set the number. And that's going to really help you guys feel aligned so that you feel like you're walking together as a team where he's not seeing like, okay, and now we're getting, again, my husband would say things like. What are we getting now? Like there's another package, there's another company you just talked to this late. I mean, I try, I the, I know what I'm talking about.'cause we spent 14 years with me spending all the money on all the things. And I was sure this next one was gonna really make a difference. Right?

Katie:

Oh.

Anna McLaughlin:

Always. It's always gonna make a difference. And what helped us the most was for us to decide, okay, it's never gonna be more than this every month. And maybe sometimes we'll allocate it here and maybe sometimes we'll allocate it there. And that's just our health and wellbeing budget, what we're willing to spend. So that gives you the freedom to play and nerd out and watch the reels and see the YouTube videos and talk to the friend who swears this thing has changed her life.'cause the thing is just be, yeah, it has, she's not lying. But keep in mind, just'cause it changed her life doesn't mean that's, it's your next thing. Right. I can't tell you

Katie:

Yeah.

Anna McLaughlin:

times the symptoms someone described lined up with exactly what someone in our family was dealing with. And the very same tool that did the trick for them did not work for us. And that's okay. Like it

Katie:

Yeah.

Anna McLaughlin:

right? So, um, so that's what I would say is like first. Jesus. Right. Really make sure that relationship is strong, because that is source for everything. Because if you don't have that good if you're not deeply connected to the vine, then the fruit's just gonna not be that great. It's just, it's how it works in the kingdom. And just a little side note, if you're looking for something that's gonna help spur this on, my favorite, favorite book that's not the, that's not the Scriptures, is, um, the True Vine by Andrew Murray, which is a deep dive on John 15. How it is, how, how we can live a branch life. This, and this is, and I never thought about this until this year. It's the

Katie:

Oh

Anna McLaughlin:

it's one of the last things that Jesus said to his disciples before the crucifixion. And so you think about like someone's last words,

Katie:

yeah. Yeah.

Anna McLaughlin:

was his message. Connect, with us.

Katie:

Wow.

Anna McLaughlin:

Uh huh. So it's verse by verse 31, chapters are all three pages long, and it's one

Katie:

Wow.

Anna McLaughlin:

digest and marinate on. So

Katie:

that. I wanna add that to my list.

Anna McLaughlin:

list. Yeah. So did I

Katie:

I love books.

Anna McLaughlin:

doing my first born linear thing, so, okay. So we're gonna get close to the father, we're gonna do the free stuff. We're gonna make sure that we're in unity with our husband if we have one, really get clear on, okay, much are we willing to put towards this stewardship? You know, it's, it's a, it's an element of stewardship, it's just one. Okay. the next thing I'd say from there is once you've got those foundation pieces in place, then I'd be looking out and I'd be going, okay, what is our best bang for our buck? Really look, just take a minute and get clear before the father. Okay, here are all the members of our family. What am I noticing? Where they need some support and what's, what's the, is there some sort of like underlying thing that resonates with everybody? Is there some sort, you know, for example, if there's a lot of hyperactivity going on, then okay, how are we doing on sleep? How are we doing on lighting? Do we have like a lot of really harsh UV blue lights? Or do we have softer light? How are we doing on exercise and time outside connection as a family? How are we doing on food dies? All of the, and just start to notice. Okay, hyperactivity seems to be the big thing. What it, what is the, what's, what would most powerfully move the needle? Because when you start talking about hyperactivity, well, it's essential oils and it's spinal, you know, it's chiropractic care and adjustments and it's grounding and

Katie:

Yeah.

Anna McLaughlin:

know, and it's like big gross motor activities and it's homeschooling, you know, you to, there are so many directions that you could go

Katie:

Mm-hmm.

Anna McLaughlin:

so what is it? You know, it might just be, maybe we start by changing our evening routine, right? Okay. Maybe there's an Epsom salt bath for everybody in the evening. Maybe there's like quiet reading time instead of TV time. Maybe the screens go off at four o'clock. There's so much you can do. But do you, I don't know if you guys can hear in my voice, it's like there's this sense of calm where it's like, huh, we're not in a hurry. Like God's a generational God friend. You don't have to fix it all right now. Like you just don't. You don't have to fix it all right now, because there's some parts of this torch that your children are gonna carry instead of you. And that's okay. my, uh, my jaw's all jacked up. It pops every time I open my mouth more than a little bit. And my mom actually tried to help get it fixed and it ended up making it worse.'cause the dentist had some, like, new conference he'd gone to. He's like, this is the, this is the thing. And so she spent all the money on the thing. And now my jaw's worse than it was before. And, um, you know, I know that it's there, it's okay. You know, maybe we'll fix it someday. Maybe we won't. But there's bigger fish to fry in this season and a smaller budget. And so, um, it, we don't have to be afraid. Like we know where we're going and we're going to be limited in this life. There's gonna be some things that get fixed and some things that maybe don't. But the question is, Lord, what, what's the next step so that I can serve you faithfully? What does stewardship look like for my people right now? And then you do just one thing at a time, just one.

Katie:

Um, I actually really like that, and the idea of being able to let go of. Doing all the things, because that's one of the challenges that I often face is, yeah, wanting to do it all, but just trusting that the things that I am acting on, that God will show up in those. And I actually, I love what you said, uh, a while ago in our conversation of having

Anna McLaughlin:

the

Katie:

courage to not

Anna McLaughlin:

do

Katie:

something. Like, is it more courageous for you to act or to just sit back and wait? Because for me, I am definitely a doer. I, I, again, like want to fix things and solve them. And if I can find something that I think will solve the problem, I will almost always try it. But I really, it does take a lot more faith and a lot more courage for me to. Just wait and to pause. And our journey to getting pregnant with Malachi was pretty much that was, I saw our infertility as another puzzle.

Anna McLaughlin:

and

Katie:

for several years I tried lots of different things.

Anna McLaughlin:

There were

Katie:

were many things that I was not willing to try and

Anna McLaughlin:

was

Katie:

like,

Anna McLaughlin:

once I

Katie:

I kind of hit that wall where the, the only next thing I could do were all the things that I didn't want to do, then I was like, I, I have nowhere else to go, but to just wait on the Lord. And so God brought me to a point where I needed to stop and I needed to just trust.

Anna McLaughlin:

Um,

Katie:

that was so hard for me. And looking back on it, did I do that? Well, probably not,

Anna McLaughlin:

No.

Katie:

but I, my husband would probably say no. If we were being honest, and I was, I was pretty like, honest with it too, that I'm like, I just don't think that God wants us to have children this way. And,

Anna McLaughlin:

and I

Katie:

I, and I kind of came to terms with that and I was like, I'm okay with that. Like, God, if that's just not our path,

Anna McLaughlin:

Fine,

Katie:

whatever. And it was kind of like a fine, if you're not gonna give it to me, I'm just going to be okay with it. And I, and it wasn't, you know, I didn't, I wasn't mad at him necessarily at that point. I, I did go through periods of frustration and anger towards God and towards myself and to everyone.

Anna McLaughlin:

But

Katie:

it finally was the moment where I kind of totally laid it down

Anna McLaughlin:

at the

Katie:

the foot of the cross and said.

Anna McLaughlin:

this

Katie:

is not something that I can control. God is the giver and the taker of life, and if he wants us to have children, he will make it happen. And it was literally a couple months after that that we got pregnant and it was after three years, I mean three years

Anna McLaughlin:

Of

Katie:

actively trying to get pregnant and doing all the things. It was finally the moment where. I gave in and I said, okay, this is not something I can control. And there have been so many moments like that in my life

Anna McLaughlin:

That

Katie:

that's just like the biggest and most obvious one to me. But there have been so many small moments where I put stuff aside.

Anna McLaughlin:

my

Katie:

businesses were like o like oftentimes one of those moments too of like,

Anna McLaughlin:

I

Katie:

would go, go, go and be into that whole hustle mentality

Anna McLaughlin:

and

Katie:

not seeing a lot of results.

Anna McLaughlin:

But then

Katie:

then the moment that I would step aside and be like, okay, I just need to take a Sabbath from all this and just really rest and

Anna McLaughlin:

stop it.

Katie:

like really, like, just stop. Like those were the moments where

Anna McLaughlin:

God

Katie:

would all of a sudden provide

Anna McLaughlin:

people and

Katie:

and clients and sales and all the things that I'm like, I'm, I haven't done anything in, in several days. Or even like there'd be times where it'd be like months where I'm like, I just need to not focus on this so heavily. It's, it's so beautiful how God really does want our hearts. Like he, that's really what he's after. And you're right, the whole health and wellness space, it is something that we need to steward well, but we also need to make sure we're not making it an idol.

Anna McLaughlin:

Mm-hmm.

Katie:

And for me, that is

Anna McLaughlin:

very

Katie:

easily one of those places that God is, is constantly re correcting my heart to make sure that I'm not focused

Anna McLaughlin:

on,

Katie:

on health and wellness and all the things being the thing that's going to sink me or heal me And,

Anna McLaughlin:

Well you

Katie:

yeah.

Anna McLaughlin:

up such a good point too, I think, Katie, because, um, oftentimes there's a root underlying the striving or fear or whatever. And so, you know, just like you were talking about of like, when we, when we get to the point where there's nothing else left to try, then that's where we have to come face to face with the emotions of grief. You know, like, what if we aren't gonna have another baby? Like, what if this is it? And that's, I mean, when we're still in motion, it's not hope. It's kind of like manufactured hope of like, it's strategy really, of like, and control, oh, I'll do this, I'll do this, I'll do this, I'll do, I'll do this. You know, and you're chasing down these rabbit trails that someone else is saying could, could be the answer. And ul and ultimately what we're missing is the answer, which is to look full on his wonderful face and say. I'm willing for this. my very small version of that is I'm, I'm back in my story of like, I'm willing to be itchy, right? I'm willing to itch, right? But all but how much more difficult, I'm willing lay down the hope of another child in our family. I've already gone down this path for three years. People know we want this. It's embarrassing, it's painful, it's brutal. And my, my version of that and, you know, we live lives that, that are fallen. You know, we, and and that's a, it can be a really big deal at times. And so for me, a part of my story is my dad was, um, diagnosed with, with a very rare, and at the time, 100% fatal form of cancer when I was years old. He was put on a clinical trial and he was paralyzed by the effects of the chemotherapy.'cause it was, you know, kind of a, a little bit of a like, let's throw it in the wall and see what happens. so, um, I married a man. My husband's 14 years older than I am, and so when he, when he, my dad was 50 when all this happened, and I didn't realize it at first, but when my husband started, when the clock ticked over from 49 to 50, I'd already been living in a lot of fear as far as his health was concerned. But we went to next level, and if he didn't call me or check in with me or get home, by the time he said he would, he was dead in a ditch somewhere. And in my brain, I had correlated, you know, this basically if, if he's not okay, I'm not okay, so I've gotta make sure he's okay. And I, I almost couldn't fathom a husband that was well at 50 because it felt so traumatic what had happened with my dad. And so part of this journey of moving into we're gonna do what's free, we're gonna be slow to move forward, we're really gonna trust the father. It's easy for me to say now, but this was a hard, it was a hard road, and it might be that you friend are finding the same, that it's really hard to lay down that striving because there's a reason we strive, and ultimately it's because we aren't fully trusting and we're afraid of what might happen. if I lay this down, if I stop scrambling to try to fix the inflammation and fix the joints and fix the weight, and fix the high blood pressure, and fix all of those things, if I stop trying to fix it, then I could lose him. if I lost him while striving, then yeah, our marriage might not be as happy as it could be, but at least I'll know I did everything I could, right? And so for me to go, okay, is causing conflict. He's stressed about the expense. He's stressed about this long list of things he's supposed to do. He's healthier now. Actually, now that I'm not pushing, there's still a list of things I look at. I'm like, oh, I would love to see some of these things shift. see you feel better. I've learned to be a little bit more open-handed, but came coming face to face. I remember my dad asking me at one point, he's like, and what if you lose him at 52? Anna? do you really want this to be your marriage where you're harping at him all the time? And like kind of, you know, elbowing him when he grabs a second, you know, cookie from the buffet or whatever. Is that what you want for your marriage if you only get him for, you know, these, whatever it would've been at the time, you know, 13 years or whatnot. Um, and I had to face that full on and go, okay, I'm willing to be a better wife, even if that means opening up my hands and saying, Lord, do your will.

Katie:

Yeah, that,

Anna McLaughlin:

Right.

Katie:

that hits hard. I mean, I've had my own moments where I've had to just kinda give people over to the Lord and just and, and save. Yeah. It is your will God and

Anna McLaughlin:

the

Katie:

The thing I've always had to tell myself or like I actually had to proclaim it out out loud. Um, I don't know if we ever got into Malachi's birth story, but um, he had a lot of complications at birth and was hospitalized. Both of us actually were hospitalized

Anna McLaughlin:

for

Katie:

about a month,

Anna McLaughlin:

And

Katie:

I did, I had to have some moments of just coming to the Lord and saying, if this doesn't turn out the way that I want it to, I will still praise your name. Like you are still good. And I remember saying that out loud and praying it out loud with our pastor and our parents and And now here he is like crying in the background and I'm like praising God every moment that.

Anna McLaughlin:

It

Katie:

was his will at that moment to keep him and to keep me around. And I, I am so thankful that I get to be his mother every single day. Um, but I still hold fast to that. If

Anna McLaughlin:

it

Katie:

didn't turn out this way, God is still good. I still trust him. Um, it probably would've been very hard after that for me to

Anna McLaughlin:

get

Katie:

back to a place of just joyfully praising God. You know, I think there's a, a little bit of a difference of praising God in, in the midst of pain and sorrow and loss, and still proclaiming truth.

Anna McLaughlin:

but

Katie:

Sometimes it's not as joyful as we would like it to be. Um, and I think that he still sees that and recognizes it because you think about Jesus the night before he was going to be crucified, he was weeping in the garden, asking God to take

Anna McLaughlin:

the

Katie:

cup away from him, like what he had to go and do to, you know, sacrifice himself on the cross. He didn't want to have to do it. And he was so sorrowful over that, but yet

Anna McLaughlin:

still

Katie:

saying, your will be done, Lord, not mine. And

Anna McLaughlin:

That is

Katie:

is,

Anna McLaughlin:

something that,

Katie:

that that is just a very true form of worship to come to God saying

Anna McLaughlin:

through

Katie:

tears, I trust you. You are still good and I want your will to be done because we know that his will is ultimately the best for us. Um, and that. Comes down to all these decisions with health and relationships and our finances

Anna McLaughlin:

and

Katie:

that we can only do so much. But if we continue to put that striving ahead of just trusting God,

Anna McLaughlin:

then

Katie:

we're kind of missing the point of the works in the first place because the works, like you said, are not the thing that it's going to save us. They are just the thing that come

Anna McLaughlin:

after

Katie:

recognizing God's faithfulness and provision in our lives. And so we need to

Anna McLaughlin:

have

Katie:

that properly ordered in our hearts. Um, but it's not, it's easier, easier said than done.

Anna McLaughlin:

that's right. And it's, it's a lifetime journey. And so wherever, wherever we are, it's all about being more faithful in the next step. And you know, I think one thing you said, Katie, that I think is worth just really like. Touching on really quickly, and I know we've gone a lot of different places, but, um, when you were talking about just that, like there's, there are points in scripture where it's called a sacrifice of praise, that we offer a sacrifice of praise. And that, that it really is, it's an act of will to choose and say, I'm willing to lay this down. And the beautiful thing is sometimes, many times we get to take it back up again, but it's just like Abraham with Isaac of like, are you willing to lay your one and only son on the funeral, the funeral beer as a sacrifice? And then only then does the ram appear. Right? then there's still this place. I just wonder,'cause when you talked about just the anguish of Christ in the, in the garden in Hebrews, I, I looked it up real quick. Um, I was like, there's something about joy and laying down his life. And so Hebrews 12 says, um. I, I'm gonna read, I'm gonna read a few verses because the lead in is so powerful with what we're talking about. Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us, this is our invitation right now. Let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles and let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us. Let us be faithful stewards, right? Fixing our eyes on Jesus, the pioneer and perfecter of our faith. I think it's elsewhere called the author and perfecter of our faith. then it says this, for the joy set before him, he endured the cross scorning at shame and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God is effectively he stepped into his full authority. Okay? Consider him who endured such opposition from sinners so that you will not grow weary and lose heart. So even in the midst of this laying down, costly as it is to say, I'm willing to not strive. I'm willing to lay down the, this sense of like, I can, I, I will, we'll get this figured out and sit for a minute and go, even if, if this thing's never fixed, even if I, even if I live the rest of my life with this challenge, even if we never figure out what's going on, like we've got a, we've got a, something with one of our kids that after 10 years we still don't know what it is and it keeps cropping up and causing problems for her. We don't know. if we never know, we can still operate from a place of joy. It doesn't mean we're happy that it happened, but we've got this sense of it. The joy set before him, he wasn't happy about the cross. He wasn't joy. He's joyful in all things. So I don't know. Theologically, what I, what I can say

Katie:

Yeah.

Anna McLaughlin:

him, it was like

Katie:

Uhhuh.

Anna McLaughlin:

what was, he knew what it was for

Katie:

Mm-hmm.

Anna McLaughlin:

to glorify God, which ultimately.

Katie:

but like you were saying, yeah, I don't think it, it wasn't easy necessarily for him because

Anna McLaughlin:

sweat

Katie:

that anguish that we read about. Yeah. The sweating of blood. Like, I can't even imagine getting to a point where you have.

Anna McLaughlin:

like

Katie:

that,

Anna McLaughlin:

that

Katie:

anguish of like, I know this needs to be done, but this is so hard, like this,

Anna McLaughlin:

this

Katie:

act, I, and I think there's so many areas of our lives where we, we get to experience a tiny bit of that, of like,

Anna McLaughlin:

this is

Katie:

is really hard, but I know it is for the good of our family or for the good of

Anna McLaughlin:

the

Katie:

kids learning, you know, discipline is a really easy example of like, this is not easy to discipline you,

Anna McLaughlin:

Yeah. But

Katie:

I know it is for your good. And it's just one of those small ways that we get to experience a little bit

Anna McLaughlin:

of

Katie:

what Jesus did. And it gives us that posture of getting to be very thankful and grateful that he did what he did for us. Because even just the act of disciplining is so hard sometimes for me that I'm like, oh my gosh. And that was so much worse, uh, for you. So much harder and more challenging for you to go to the cross for us. So, but it's so beautiful. It is so beautiful. And. An amazing reminder, um, as we do face our own challenges within our health and families and

Anna McLaughlin:

with

Katie:

our finances, that

Anna McLaughlin:

he

Katie:

has overcome

Anna McLaughlin:

all of

Katie:

of these challenges. He has already defeated all of the problems we have faced that we will face, that we are facing currently. Um, and that eventually we will be restored completely and fully to the original design that he had for us. Because all these challenges that we face with our health and, and, and in all these areas of life

Anna McLaughlin:

stem

Katie:

from the fact that we are fallen and we are sinful. And it is just, that's just our reality. It's not, we're not going to be able to fix it all. And I'm, I'm saying this to myself too, like, I'm not gonna be able to fix it all and I have to be okay with that and trust God because he already knows

Anna McLaughlin:

the

Katie:

result of all of this. Um, and that we. We will be restored, we will be reconciled. Um, and yeah, it's, I just praise God for that.

Anna McLaughlin:

I know, right? What, what, what a promise. And I love, I love the phrase Li, or I love the word limited. We're limited. And I feel like that that captures so much where it's just like, not ever going to all be resolved in this life, but it will be in the next one. there is nothing. There's absolutely nothing that need keep us from fulfilling the work that he has called us to do to glorify his name. that may mean that we're gonna do it while we're hurting, or that may mean that he'll heal that hurt and glorify his name that way. But it's the same answer no matter what our work is to glorify God and to enjoy him forever Hard. Sometimes we'll do that from a place of deficit and other times we'll do that from a place of fullness and maybe a miracle did it, or maybe this supplement or that supplement did it. Um, but may we be humble enough to recognize that ultimately he's the author of the whole thing.

Katie:

Amen. Oh.

Anna McLaughlin:

Anna,

Katie:

I really enjoyed having you on and having this conversation.

Anna McLaughlin:

too.

Katie:

I thank you all for bearing with us while Malachi hangs

Anna McLaughlin:

out

Katie:

with us in this conversation. And

Anna McLaughlin:

I, I

Katie:

love doing things messy because I think that it is

Anna McLaughlin:

just a

Katie:

a beautiful representation again, of, of the way that, that God did everything. It's like the, you know, it's just he came into our messes and he showed up and yeah.

Anna McLaughlin:

I

Katie:

am very thankful that he is here with us. Right buddy?

Anna McLaughlin:

I know this was a treat for me to get to see the little one. My youngest is

Katie:

I know.

Anna McLaughlin:

now.

Katie:

Wow. Well, I've heard it goes fast. Um, he is already 19 months, so I already feel like, oh my gosh. And that's why

Anna McLaughlin:

we're in

Katie:

in that stage where you're like, oh, I really have to start thinking about how we're gonna discipline and

Anna McLaughlin:

figure

Katie:

out all these things because it's not as just easy as like taking you away from something all the time. And we actually have to like start to figure it all out. And

Anna McLaughlin:

So

Katie:

disciplining right now is on the top of my mind as far as like those challenges that we're facing and yeah.

Anna McLaughlin:

You

Katie:

But

Anna McLaughlin:

I ever got on that?

Katie:

yes.

Anna McLaughlin:

Um, this was from an organization called NACD, national Academy of Child Development that we worked with for a number of years. And, um, it talk and they have this great, if you want a free resource, that's epic for parenting. It's called Miracles of Child Development. And you can go to the NACD store and get the audio file for free. It's like a six hour long seminar by the head of the organization, Robert Doman, D-O-M-A-N. And it is like, it blew my mind when I heard it. Just all, and of course, six hours, it goes a lot of different directions. But one of the key things he said is that, um, anything is learned by, um, frequency intensity. You want, you want high frequency, so we're gonna repeat this multiple times. You want short duration and you want high intensity. So we're going to teach things in a, in really short bursts with a lot of intensity. And specifically in the realm of discipline. Whenever a child does anything we like, it's the biggest party ever. Especially if there's, if there's one thing, so for those of you that are parents, if there's, if there's something in particular that you're really working on with your child, like, um, you know, they think it's really fun to go off and dump all the things out and make a big mess in the room, then, you know, focus there. Right? And if they are currently not dumping things out in the room, then it's, oh, I love how quietly you're playing. You're doing such a wonderful job. And then, you know, here's a little token, or put a sticker on the sticker chart way to go. So proud of you. And then if they are, um, currently doing something that they're not supposed to do in a corrections needed, it's like. an event at all, because we seek, especially children seek stimulation. And so if we yell and we scream, I can't believe you did that, even though we think, well they've, we've, now we've really shown'em that's bad. It's like they, they're gonna veer back into that space, uh, because that was a high intensity response that they got. And so they're gonna be seeking that. So instead it's like, whoopsies, we dumped our toys out. Let's clean'em up. Oh, you're not willing to, okay, do you wanna clean'em up now or do you wanna go sit in in the chair over there for a minute until you're willing to clean them up? totally unaffected. And then we, and then as soon as they're doing what we want, you're cleaning up your toys. You are such a big helper. I'm so proud of how grown you are. And it's just that constant high stimulation input of praise. And then when there's something that's wrong, there's absolutely a correction. And it's very clear what it is, but there's not any emotion behind it that changed our family

Katie:

I like that. I've actually heard the neutral tone when like kind of giving a discipline and Yeah, that's hard sometimes

Anna McLaughlin:

It's

Katie:

when you're like, whatcha doing?

Anna McLaughlin:

know. Why would you do that? Especially toddlers, man. Because like permanent marker drawn on the wall seems so fun, right?

Katie:

My gosh. Oh my gosh. All the things.

Anna McLaughlin:

Uhhuh? Yeah. And

Katie:

I will look that up. I really like that. I love that. I've, I love all the resources and that kind of stuff, so I am definitely gonna check that out. Yes. Oh, free things of the best.

Anna McLaughlin:

the best.

Katie:

All right, Anna. Well, thank you so much. Um, we are all very grateful for all of your wisdom and your tips and just reminding us to bring it all back to the Lord. It's, it's just always such a, a needed reminder. And so I'm glad that we had this conversation today, and I hope that everybody else felt that way.

Anna McLaughlin:

Um,

Katie:

Um, will you just quickly share with us how people might get connected, including, um, remind us your podcast and Yeah. Anything.

Anna McLaughlin:

absolutely. Yeah. So the best way to find me is either go to anywhere you listen to podcasts, overwhelmed to Overcomer is the name of the podcast. Um, or you can find me on YouTube. YouTube. Also the podcast, overwhelmed to Overcomer. My handle is from my old branding. She considers a field, so you can find me on YouTube there. Um, my website is currently on hiatus while we figure out what else we're doing, but I'm on social media here and there and, um, have a free guide also called Overwhelmed to Overcomer that can help you cut the noise and really focus on what is my one thing right now. So, as you're thinking about what does it look like to walk this thing out faithfully, if health is really your, your big item that you're really focused on, you can actually drill down to one habit that you're going to be focused on for a season, um, or whatever. It's, whether it's. it's time with the Lord or it's, um, marriage or relationships or forgiveness or hydration or whatever it is, you can drill down, um, to just one thing that you're going to be focusing on and start building healthy habits around it so you can connect with that also podcasts and, and YouTube all the places, and that's easy.

Katie:

Great. I'll make sure to get links for those and put those in the description of this podcast so people can find you.

Anna McLaughlin:

Thanks so

Katie:

I hope they do. I hope you go check her podcast out. So go check her out over there, guys. So thank you so much, Anna. See you later.

Anna McLaughlin:

pleasure.

Katie:

Yeah.