From Birth Control to Broken Plans: The Heartbreak and Hope of Infertility

Welcome back to Crunchy Stewardship. Today, we are stepping away from our usual lighthearted banter to share something deeply personal. This episode kicks off our brand new, multi-part series on Fertility. But before we get into the science, hormone tracking, and holistic health in future episodes, we knew we had to start with the posture of our own hearts.

In this incredibly raw and vulnerable episode, Chrissy and Katie open up about their personal fertility journeys. They share the unseen heartbreak of waiting, the frustration of unexplained symptoms, and what it looks like to wrestle with God when your deepest desires are met with silence. From navigating PCOS and naturopathic healing to surviving sepsis and making life-altering medical decisions, this episode is a testament to the fact that even in our darkest wilderness, God is still good.

In this deeply personal episode, we share:

• A Genesis Revelation: A beautiful realization about the creation story, and how God provided light before He ever created the sun.
• Chrissy’s Journey: The frustrating aftermath of hormonal birth control, discovering insulin resistance and PCOS, and finding hope (and healing) through a naturopath and Maca root.
• Katie’s 40-Month Wilderness: The pain of unexplained infertility, battling depression and anger, and ultimately finding peace in surrendering the dream of biological children.
• Malakai’s Miraculous Birth: The traumatic reality of contracting sepsis, the ECMO machine that saved Malachi's life, and Katie's heartbreaking decision to have a life-saving hysterectomy.
• The Ultimate Sacrifice: How the story of Abraham and Isaac, along with our own earthly trials, give us a humbling glimpse into the agonizing sacrifice Jesus made for us on the cross.

Resources mentioned:

• Book: The Garden, the Curtain and the Cross (A wonderful Easter book for kids!) - https://amzn.to/4lqsi5e 
• Supplement: Maca Root (Used by Chrissy for PCOS/Hormone balancing)

Chapters:

00:00 Welcome to Crunchy Stewardship

00:53 Random Revelation: The Light Before the Sun

09:53 Fertility Journey Kick Off

12:49 Chrissy's Fertility Journey

20:34 Katie's Fertility Journey

40:32 Malakai's Birth Story

44:54 Future Fertility for Katie

46:35 Finding Reconcilliation in the Journey

49:36 God Uses Infertility to Strengthen Our Faith

56:15 God Is With Us in the Journey

Remember, whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God (1 Corinthians 10:31).

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Transcript

Speaker 0:03

Welcome to Crunchy Stewardship. I'm Chrissy Roach.

Speaker 2 0:06

And I'm Katie Fiola Jones. We are cousins on a mission to honor God by stewarding our health spiritually, mentally, and physically.

Speaker 0:14

From ancestral nutrition and natural remedies to biblical finance and holistic health, we are digging deep into how God intended us to live.

Speaker 3 0:22

So grab yourself a raw milk latte and join us as we unpack the ins and outs of crunchy stewardship.

Chrissy 0:33

Hey everyone. Welcome back to Crunchy Stewardship. It is Chrissy and Katie here, uh, just talking about all things crunchy and how we can best steward our lives with the gifts that God has already given us. So, uh, Katie, to start off our episode today, would you like to share your random revelation?

Katie 0:53

Yes. random revelation today actually is super random. It's not necessarily anything crunchy, but it's actually. A revelation that I had about the Bible and my friend shared with me the other day. She sent me a video message, which is not the norm, but she sent a video explaining how she had realized this recently, and then it was, it blew me away. And it's probably going to be something that you all somewhat kind of know, but also maybe don't like me So if you go to the Book of Genesis in the creation account and look at all the things that God created, he creates light on a different day than he actually creates the sun and the moon to govern the light, which is really interesting because if the sun and moon did not exist before there was light, it's kinda like that question of like, what was the light? And obviously the light was God himself. Shining onto the world, or I guess, maybe not obviously, but probably was just God and his light. And I don't know, for some reason that was so, or shattering to me.'cause I've read the creation account like hundreds of times. I feel like so many times throughout the year it is mentioned. And just, you go through the days of creation and what was created. I literally, she sent me that video explaining this and I had to go back and open my Bible to be like, wait a minute, really? And sure enough, yeah, God creates light. Like he says, let there be light And then like a few days later, what, what day is it specifically?

Chrissy 2:48

wanna say day three is the sun and moon. Maybe

Katie 2:51

it's like later. So it's not even like next he does the Sun of Movement. It's like he thinks about it that. In a sense, and it's like, okay, now we're gonna create the sun and the moon, and then there's gonna be night and day. And so it's just really interesting to think about there just being So I don't

Chrissy 3:11

That's wild.

Katie 3:13

Right. Okay. Thank you. I'm so glad that that is like a revelation to you too, because again,

Chrissy 3:19

Yeah.

Katie 3:19

I'm like, I'm in church all the time, I've read this story hundreds, literally hundreds of times, and it just never dawned on me. So I thought it was really cool and I had to share it.

Chrissy 3:30

I feel like I'm at the point of life where I have heard the creation story enough times where I could recite it, not because I worked on memorizing it, just because I've heard it so many times, and yet. There's also so many new things I am learning about the creation story. Like the fact that when Adam and Eve sinned, God made the first sacrifice for their sins in order to clothe them, and then the bloodshed to cover their sins. And I was like, oh, I, I thought God just like gave them clothes. You know? I didn't realize that like him, he, like, he had to kill an animal in order to give them clothes. And that that bloodshed covered their sin. And now you're saying that like the light was created before the sun and moon were created. And it makes a lot of sense. Like, duh, you know, before sin came into the world, Adam and Eve were walking in the garden with God as it is in heaven, you know? And like in heaven, there's no sun and moon and night and day. It's, there's just light. You know, like light comes from. It. It is just light. It's not like a place where the light comes from,

Katie 4:48

Yeah, it's probably just like God himself'cause he is or

Chrissy 4:51

wow.

Katie 4:52

maybe like being the

Chrissy 4:54

I.

Katie 4:54

of the world or I don't know. I mean it's really, it was just like one of those moments where I was like, wow. And yeah, I'm just really excited. Easter is coming up and Malachi is almost two, so he's kind of at an age where. Uh, things are just kind of clicking. Like he's starting to like put things together and he gets really excited whenever I say the word pray, and he like immediately sits down and folds his hands in his lap. And it's just like the cutest, darn thing. And so I just, I've been thinking about like, okay, how can we really start to make Easter special and like bring in the gospel more? And I listened to a podcast episode on parenting the other day, and they talked about like bringing Jesus more into your Easter celebrations and like what things you could do. And so I bought a book that they had recommended called The Garden, the Curtain and the Cross. And it's, it's a really basic story of. why Jesus died and why he rose again and what that means for us. And I, it just came in the mail actually today. And so I read it while Malachi was napping'cause I think I'm gonna like wrap it up and give it to him or something. But it was so cute and it's so precious and it's one of those things that I'm just like really excited to get to him a little bit more seriously about the gospel and just start to like hopefully hone in those lessons with him. And I don't know, it's like little things like that where really excited. So yeah.

Chrissy 6:29

I feel like that's such a sweet age. You know, we in um. Our small group, there is a couple who has a 3-year-old and her name is Joy. And every single time we're all together in the living room, she comes out, she goes, mom, can we worship Jesus? And her mom's like, yes, joy, we can. And she just gets so excited. She said, can we play how deep the fathers love? And then she starts dancing in the middle of the room while we're all singing this song. And I, it's just so sweet. Like at that young age, you know, I feel like the, the image of having childlike faith is so evident, you know, that God calls us to have faith like that, to be that excited to hear about him, that excited to talk to him, that excited to learn about him and to worship him. Like, I'm gonna be honest, I do not have that level of excitement every single Sunday when I go to church or when I'm reading my Bible in the morning. But. When he calls us to have faith like children, like that is the faith that he's calling us to. And I, I just love the tangible image of that, of like looking at the faith of children and just like their excitement to be with God as much as their little brains can understand at this point.

Katie 7:51

It's so beautiful.

Chrissy 7:53

Yeah. I love it.

Katie 7:54

kids are, uh, definitely a blessing. I just love kids are this like, beautiful image of what our faith can look like and maybe even should look like and just having this awe and admiration for our father and yeah, it's really great. It's, it's inspiring I think, uh, as a parent getting to watch that. And yeah, kids are definitely a, very special kind of blessing in many ways. I think for me, one of the biggest, blessings I will call it is just the recognition of. How selfish I am as a human being. When you become a parent, it just really wrecks you to understand your own selfishness, which I would say is a blessing in the sense that you can see that there is some refinement that is needed and sanctification needs to happen, and and guidance. And so it's a blessing in that sense of just being like, wow, I just never realize that. Like I always, I always thought like, oh, I'm really selfless. I am. I don't think about myself that much. But then when you become a parent, you have to be, you just have to empty yourself out. You have to be selfless because you can't think about your children. You have to always be thinking of this other person. Now that depends on you, and then you just kind of realize like, oh, I was very selfish before because I didn't really have to. Empty myself out in that way. so yeah, children are definitely an interesting blessing in that sense, but also obviously in just the joy that they bring and pointing to we can have like an awe inspired faith. So that brings us into our topic today, which isn't necessarily children, but it is fertility specifically, and obviously children are the fruit of our fertility. So hence here we are at the segue to our topic today, which is fertility and. Today actually, we are going to look at it from a sort of personal angle to start with. So we're actually going to kick off a fertility series here, um, in the next several episodes. We are going to start today with a personal fertility journey, um, from Chrissy and myself. And then, you know, if you are someone who is trying to start a family yourself or wanting to understand how fertility works, we're going to. Talk more about how to track your own fertility. We're going to go into the specifics of female and male fertility in some in our next episodes actually. Um, and this, honestly, this whole series can be really helpful for any woman at any stage of life. Whether you are married and trying to start a family, or you're going to be soon, or you're dating someone or you're engaged, or maybe even if you're single. This topic really is important for. All of us, because fertility really does say a lot about our own health. And whether you are trying to start a family now or want to in the future, having this information ahead of time can actually be really important so that way you can prepare yourself for. Being pregnant one day or hopefully being pregnant one day. So yeah, we're going to kick off this series and do, um, a handful of different episodes on, on actual fertility for both male and female, and then go into how to improve and increase your own fertility one day. Um, especially because right now we are kind of in a fertility crisis. Birth rates have been declining steadily and we'll, we'll talk about that in a future episode. And yeah, we're, we wanna. Uh, make ourselves healthier and prepare our bodies to house a baby and to grow a baby and to have babies one day. And so, yeah. Anyway, I don't know where I'm going with all of this, but today we are going to look at our own fertility journeys. Obviously, Christine and I don't to even be experts in any of these things. We just happen to enjoy learning tons and tons and tons of things so we could share with you guys, and that's really why we started this podcast, right, Chrissy? We just have lots that we love sharing and getting to help people with. So anyway, do you want to kick us off with your own journey or would you like me to, or where would you like to go

Chrissy 12:49

I can kick us off,

Katie 12:51

Cool.

Chrissy 12:51

if anyone has been listen. To our podcast for a while. You would know by this point that I am currently on my Fertility Jo Journey. I do not have any children yet. Um, I have spiritual children, so I'll take that. Um, but no actual physical children yet. And so, um, let's see. I, max and I started trying to get pregnant almost a year and a half ago. We actually wanted to go overseas and we were in the process of going overseas. And all of a sudden, Katie, right around the time that Malachi was born, we started feeling

Katie 13:31

Hmm.

Chrissy 13:31

like the Lord was telling us, Hey, actually I want you to stay state stateside and have a baby first before you go overseas. And we were like, okay, God, we got you. So I made an appointment. I got my birth control taken out. I was on, um, I had the Nexplanon implant. In my arm, which is a very low dose progesterone that they said was a very low risk. And so, um, while I was on, while I had the Nexplanon, I, my cycles were very irregular. I was always spotting, or I'd have like six weeks in between cycles or whatever I'd, I just never knew when, where I was. So I got it taken out and, uh, my cycle's never actually regulated after that point. So after a year when I got it taken out, my OB told me, she said, it might take six months to a year for your hormones to regulate. And I said, okay, that's fine by me. So at that one year mark, we were still not pregnant.

Katie 14:36

like pause for a second and like just acknowledge how crazy that actually sounds. Months to a year after being on something that you should go back to normal like that.

Chrissy 14:49

That's a long time.

Katie 14:50

time.

Chrissy 14:51

Yeah, yeah. Anyways, so, um, at that one year Mark, max and I decided, you know what, we're gonna start trying to figure this out. So this is what really sparked us working with the naturopath because I was starting to get into the crunchy world and I had seen fertility treatments and I was like, that just doesn't sound fun being a Guinea pig or a pin cushion all the time and trying to figure it out and then being forced a bunch of these drugs or in injections and things like that. And I was like, I just, I just don't like how that feels. And so we started working with the fertility doctor, or not the fertility doctor. Goodness gracious. We started working with a naturopath and we told them we came in wanting to get pregnant and they were like, great, so we're gonna fix all these other problems too. And naturally, by fixing insulin resistance and gut health and energy levels and fatigue and sleep, your hormone levels will then regulate and get back on track. And I was like, sweet. Sounds awesome. So it's been a six month journey with the naturopath. Um, we started off, we decreased our diets down to just meat and vegetables. Mine noted organic vegetables and grass fed, high quality pasture raised meat. And then we slowly but surely started adding foods back in. Through this process. They did draw labs. They drew 40 biomarkers, but when we started. And then, uh, the same 40 biomarkers about three months in. And then they also tested over 180 food sensitivities. So we were able to see which foods are probably causing more inflammation in our bodies. And those foods specifically, we stayed away from for longer. Um, and then the foods that were not causing as much inflammation in our bodies, we were able to add back sooner. Um, and I just have to say like, I didn't know I had insulin resistance, but I did. I didn't know that my testosterone was really high, but I did, and Max's testosterone was really low, and so it was really eyeopening to see. Okay, so there, there are. Issues with my metabolism and things that are causing potentially hormone disruption. So then about, uh, two months ago I decided, you know what, I'm gonna get my estrogen progesterone checked also, just to see where those are at. And I also got an ultrasound. And with all of those, my OB came to the conclusion that I probably have a condition called PCOS, which is polycystic ovarian syndrome, which essentially means that the ovaries try to secrete, well, actually what it really means is that estrogen levels are too high, progesterone levels are too low. And so with that, the ovaries are always thinking that it might be almost time to ovulate, but never quite get that surge in follicle stimulating hormone. And so never get the signal to fully ovulate. And so they create a bunch of. Immature eggs, and it shows up on an ultrasound as multiple follicles, um, or quote unquote cysts, which is where the name polycystic ovarian syndrome comes into. And so, um, in the past, PCOS has been an infertility sentence. Um, nowadays we know that it's not. And so through that, I, I've been working really hard, keeping my diet down. Um, doing a lot of research specifically in terms of PCOS. So some things that are very common with that is insulin resistance, which I had high testosterone, which I had a tendency to gain muscle very quickly, which has happened to me since I was in high school. And no one ever believed me, but I see it in myself. Um. What else is it? Tiredness, acne. So specifically hormonal acne around the jawline is a common symptom of PCOS, which I have that too. And so I have most recently been using a supplement is called Maca Root. And, um, praise God, that the Lord created herbs to regulate our hormones. How beautiful is that? And so Maca is an herb that it, it's like a root that's grown and they turned it into supplement form. And so I've been taking that. And I have to say, I, I already felt really great after fixing my diet, but now taking that I have so much more energy and I've been tracking my, um. Actually, I, I got a new fertility tracker, we'll talk about it later, but it tracks multiple hormones all at once. And so I've been tracking my hormone levels also with that while taking the MAA root. And I have to say, I'm about two weeks in taking the maa and my hormones have already improved significantly from last month. So, um, it's a beautiful thing. God is at work. I am still fully confident that he will give us a baby, whether it be our own or an through adoption or some other method. Um, but yeah, that, that's where we're at still on the journey.

Katie 20:34

And I do want to say, I, so for me at, you know, with, with the, from what I had always learned about PCOS was that typically those who have it are also overweight and. Chrissy is obviously, uh, we, we've kind of talked about this. If you don't, if you've never seen her, I will let you know. Chrissy is not overweight. She's a very, very average, and I wouldn't even say average, I would say like you're a nice slender size and that is something that intriguing to me. Um, PCOS was kind of mentioned in my own fertility journey, but it was something that my doctor kind of just like wrote off. She just kind of like, was like, no, you, you likely don't have it because you're not overweight. And typically it's those who are overweight that have PCOS. And so it's one of those like things that I always question, like I wonder if that was something that I was kind of struggling with, or if that is partly the reason why I wasn't able to get pregnant very quickly, but my doctor just like stopped. Looking into it further and just was like, Nope, you are totally fine. And, but yeah, I mean, similar to you, Chrissy, I was on birth control, uh, from, I mean, well, interestingly enough, I think you, you were on birth control earlier in your life as well too, right?

Chrissy 22:10

I was, yeah, I started on birth control when I was 12 years old for acne. Went off of it for about eight-ish months before Max and I got married and then got the Nexplanon implant when Max and I got married. So I think a total of about 10 years on birth control, maybe 12, 10 to 12. Something like that.

Katie 22:33

it's, it's really wild, like thinking about that and how normalized it is because I, I think you and I after talking have discussed that if, if we had really known what we know now, we wouldn't have chosen to do that. But it also wasn't technically either of our choices really when it happened. It was more our mother's choices when we were both put on birth control.'cause I was also basically put on birth control. Uh, how old was I? I was probably around 16, maybe 17. I'm trying to remember. So I was. mom asked me if I could go on birth control when I was seriously dating a, a guy in high school at the time, and even though I had told her numerous times, like, mom, that's like, that's not happening. We're not having sex. I don't want to have sex, but until I'm married and I've, I had told her that tons and tons of times, she was like, it would just make me feel better and make me like, like I, I would just sleep better at night. You know, it's not a, it's not a bad thing. It's not going to change anything. Basically. There's only the benefit of getting to exactly when you like where you were in your cycle and basically kind of get to control that. So I just saw it as a benefit and I. Messed around with it. Probably too much for my body's liking because if I knew I had a vacation certain times, I would make sure that like I wouldn't be getting my period like while I was on vacation and, you know, things like that. So I would like shift around when I was using my birth control and, and just totally mess around with my cycle. And I'm sure that my body hated me for that. was probably on it for about two years. So. So my boyfriend and I had been dating, well actually no it was much longer than that'cause we had dated for about four years. I had stopped using birth control at some point towards the end of our relationship. Honestly, the only reason I did was I was in college and I hated going to Walgreens to pick up my prescription every month or whatever. Whenever, you know, I was picking it up and it was just such a hassle. And again, like I wasn't having sex. So it wasn't like I, it wasn't like I needed it, it was just something that was kind of nice'cause I could control my own cycle and I enjoyed that. But then I just hated needing to go to Walgreens'cause it wasn't super close to our campus. And that's why I stopped and, which is so silly. And then after that, just like you, I, my cycle was not regular for a while. And then altogether I just like. Having periods completely. And that was my, probably my sophomore and junior year of, or Yeah, it would've been, yeah, it would've been around that time because I was also, that's when I was living with you at a certain point, which I don't know if we've ever mentioned that. I think maybe we have a couple times on the

Chrissy 25:44

A little bit. Yes. Katie was my built-in big sister for one semester. Her while she was in college. She was working for a political salesman like I like to say, and she did cold calls asking people to vote for people.

Katie 25:57

It was a really weird time of my

Chrissy 25:58

You remember sitting at my kitchen table, going through your list of phone numbers that you had to call and asking them to cast votes.

Katie 26:06

Yep. Oh yeah. Yeah, it was. It was a really weird time and I made good money, which was great. And the benefit was that I got to live with you guys for a while and enjoyed that and it was just super weird, but. It was like around that time yeah, I basically like stopped having periods altogether and I don't know, I, so a really weird part of my fertility journey actually, kind of like in a sense, started when I was younger. You know? When you like write these stories, like in middle school, like creative stories, just like you're given like these random prompts of like write a creative story about yourself or about just whatever. Well, my mom found one of my stories that I had written when I was in middle school at some point, I think it was like 2006, I would've been in like sixth grade. I had literally written a story about myself when I was married. In the future. And the story about myself was that I was struggling to get pregnant and was having a conversation with my husband about adoption or about surrogacy and all these things, which is so weird to me because I didn't, I don't feel like I knew much about those things. So I was like, why was I writing about that stuff? But it is so weird even now, like thinking about how it kind of happened in, in a way, and,

Chrissy 27:40

almost like the Lord was preparing your heart from a, from a young age to make you prepared to fight this battle once you got older. I.

Katie 27:50

So at some point. During that journey of then like not having a period, I remember going on vacation with my sister and my mom, or I was with my whole family. My dad was there too, but my sister and my mom and I were in a sauna or something, and the three of us were chilling there. And I don't know, it's just you feel like you open up in weird spaces like that. And I remember telling them that I just felt like for some reason I was not going to have kids of my own one day. Like just, I don't even know why we were talking about it, but I opened up about it and then I mentioned that I hadn't had a period in a long time. And so my mom was like, you really should probably go see the doctor about that. So I did. And they put me on some medication it was something, some hormone stimulating thing that was supposed to just like jumpstart your body and then all of a sudden you should like. Have cycles regularly again, and it did it whatever. I honestly don't even remember what it was. I just kind of was one of those people who was like, whatever the doctor says, I'm sure it's fine. And so I don't remember the name of any of the birth controls I was ever on. I don't remember the name of that drug. I just kind of took it'cause they told me that it would do what I wanted it to do. And so that happened. And then I started dating Wes and we got married, obviously, and for marriage, I just knew like, oh, well now I'm going to start having sex and I don't want babies right away. So I jumped on birth control and again, couldn't tell you what I was on or anything. And I was on that for about two years. And then we decided that we wanted to try to start our family. So I got off of it. I was told that my. Like system and my hormones should regulate after about a month or two. And so I just had this like very wistful thinking of like, oh, I'm gonna get off and then I'll basically get pregnant this summer once things regulate and all this stuff.'cause this was, this is CO time, so we. Originally we're gonna wait until later. But then COVID happened and we were hanging around the house and we're like, oh, let's try, let's start trying now, kind of a thing. And so it was like February of 2020 that we're like, I'm gonna get off birth control. And then, you know, in a couple months, uh, it'll be regular and maybe it'll take us a couple months and so maybe by pre by the summer I'll be pregnant. And that very much didn't happen. And I remember talking to my doctor early on when I was going to get off birth control and I told her like, yeah, is there anything I need to know about just fertility and getting pregnant? And she's like, Nope, just get off your birth control and if you're not pregnant in a year from now, come and see me. That's literally the advice I was given by my O-B-G-Y-N at the time.

Chrissy 30:38

I got the same advice was if you're not pregnant within a year, come back. I was like, well, I'll be back for my annual. So.

Katie 30:46

exactly. Well, and it's wild because there is so much advice that we can be giving women and even young men like. Early to prepare your bodies for having a baby, because so much needs to happen. You are literally like this machine that needs to be oiled and maintenance and taken care of, and needs to be given the proper fuel. Like things can go wrong pretty easily, which is crazy that doctors aren't saying anything more than just like, eh, you're fine. You're young, you're healthy, you'll be fine. And you know, lo and behold, a year goes past and we're not pregnant. And I go to see my doctor and she's like, yeah, we can take some like tests. And so I didn't know anything. I just kind of followed along with whatever she told us to do and just got some random tests. Most of the things that she tested me for were all generally normal in the ranges that they test for. And so I was kind of like. You know, patted on the back and was like, you'll be fine. Like you're normal. It should maybe just take a little bit longer for you and, and whatever. I wasn't content with that response. I started to seek little something a little bit differently and I didn't go your route where I didn't, you know, do a naturopath. But I went to a more holistic ish, OB, GYN office. Like I had heard good things about this office. It was much further away and that was a pain, but it was kind of on my way to work ish. So like commuting and everything. It was okay if I like got off work early and could go that way home and stuff, but. I remember going down there and they did some more testing. They did the test to see if I was ovulating and I went and I had ultrasounds done and I had blood, like I had labs drawn at certain points in my cycle to test different parts of my hormones and if they were happening properly, I don't even remember, like, this is so, this is how wild it is. It's like I look back and I'm like, I don't even really remember what we were testing, but I remember a lot to get so many different tests done and yeah, it was, it was not fun. And so that was, that was like a whole nother year of that. And by the end of that year I was like, so done. I, I did, I felt like a lab rat, kind of like you were saying. I just felt poked and prodded and it was not fun. And most annoying thing was that we were getting. Some answers, like certain were a little bit off, like my progesterone was off. I definitely remember that because one of the things that they did do was end up giving me a progesterone supplement or pill or whatever. And so I was put on progesterone and this was in 2021 ish, 2022, somewhere around there. And I, yeah, it really messed me up. Um, you know, a lot of the side effects are mood related, and I was kind of spun into like a state of depression for several months from it, and was awful. And at that point, and I just, we, we didn't even like call the doctor. We didn't do anything. We just decided that we were done with all of it. And you know, he even went and did like the semen test and everything too, which. Uh, when we talk about male fertility have a wild story about that, that I actually realized now from doing all this research, like in depth because we were told that his labs were normal, but I went and I still have them and I pulled them up and yeah, I'll share that story'cause it is actually, it is really wild. But basically this whole time we were told, you're healthy, you're normal. There's like only slight, you know, maybe this doesn't look super great or this area could improve, but all of the interventions were all medical that they had suggested. Never did anybody talk to us about diet or exercise or even sleep or any kind of anything that could be disrupting. Like any toxins that could be disrupting our hormones. was just like, let's look at the labs to see what medication we could put you on to. Help you with this. And, and that's, that was even coming from the more holistic doctor who does more testing and, and looks at different nuances and things. So was a very frustrating process and I through a very spiritual crisis, uh, a big crisis of my faith during that time because, you know, I was really immature in my faith, in the sense of believing that, yeah, if God, if, if God had given me this desire to be a mother and wasn't fulfilling it, is he good? Like I, I just kind of kept questioning that and I was very angry and. And then I, I spiraled into this depression that left me not wanting to do anything. Like I spent several days just on the couch because at that point I started working for myself and I could, I could just lay on the couch and nobody would like call me to be like, why don't you go work today? So I didn't have a lot of accountability. It was just like a really weird time in my life. And I know that there are a lot of women that I have talked with since then who have gone through very similar fertility challenges of just being wrecked by it because, yeah, I, I think it is, again, being a mother so beautiful and there's a huge blessing that comes from it. And so when the church body talks so much about motherhood and. Gosh, I like, I just think about those days like, and I think about you being in your place right now and how I was kind of there of just waiting and waiting and waiting and waiting and hearing so much about how great motherhood is. And I kept being like, God, why not me? Like why do these other people to have children? And the most frustrating things were, there were several times that I, we'd be, we'd be talking to another couple, I remember talking to this really young couple, they got married I think before they were 21, and they came over to our house. They had just been married for two months and they came over, we had'em over for dinner. We were just asking how their first couple months of marriage was going. And this was like in the, the throes of my de deep depression Oh. With, with all of this. And they're like, well, we got pregnant on our honeymoon. And I just remember being like. Oh my gosh. And just wanting to like throw them out the door because their response to it too was just so flippant of like, yeah, we weren't really wanting to get pregnant. This is kind of a bummer. And it, you know, wasn't our plan. And I'm like, just like so frustrated. But God taught me so much during that time. And obviously we became foster parents during that journey too, because we came to a point where we're like, you know what if God is saying that this is not how we're supposed to start our family, maybe not supposed to. And eventually we, we became foster parents. Um, and I still, we still obviously deeply desired to become parents. It wasn't like we let that dream go. but I actually got to a point where I just totally believed that would never have our own children that we. We're not meant to. And I re like, I remember just thinking back to that story that I had written as a little girl saying like, just saying like, okay, like I am not going to be a mother in this way. And maybe God was telling me that and preparing me for it. And yeah, it is. It was just one of those things where I finally said, okay, God, I, I'm okay. I am not going to be a biological mother. And that is all right with me. And I completely let it go. And of course the next month I got pregnant and my first response was actually anger. I was actually like kind of angry because I was like, God, I told you that I was okay with not having my own children. And now here you go. Giving me this child. And I was like quite frustrated for a while, but that was definitely thrown out the window after I took three more pregnancy tests to confirm that I was actually pregnant.'cause at first I didn't believe it because after taking dozens of pregnancy tests for months and months for years, literally years, and them all coming up negative, you stop trusting them. And then when it comes up positive, you're like, what? Really? anyway, yeah, I, we finally got pregnant and Malachi and, uh, end our wild fertility journey. Um, Malachi was born and we were both, we both contracted sepsis when he was born. And I was very, very sick. And we were both hospitalized. We, we were both very sick, um, and hospitalized for about a month and. Part of my process to recovery was, um, needing to have a hysterectomy because my uterus had been so severely infected with the sepsis and uterus by God's design are very impenetrable. Um, and obviously are meant to house a child that is growing in your body and they're supposed to protect the baby. So antibiotics, getting into your uterus is very challenging, especially the level in which, um, the sepsis had taken over in the uterus. And so, uh, it was, you know, I was told in the hospital that it was kind of a life or death situation and I had to make a decision within a couple hours, uh, whether or not I was going to have the surgery. And this was only, this was about 24 hours after Malachi was born. Um, and he was also fighting for his life. And then I had to. Make that really, really hard decision to say, I, I, want, I want the chance to live and to be his mom, and to, uh, you know, say no to having future children biologically of my own. Um, that was really, it was really scary. It was really hard, um, especially after our long journey. I mean, it took from start to finish, I think we counted it was, it was all, it was like about exactly 40 months, um, from when we started trying to get pregnant until, uh, we actually did. And is really, you know, 40 months kind of like in the wilderness. Uh, or, you know, they spent 40 years in the wilderness, but for us it was 40 months. And so it was very, there's a lot of really interesting biblical parallels that, I mean, God's hand is obviously in everything, but I, I look back and I see it so clearly. Um. Just guiding us and leading us through this, um, and knowing that he is sovereign over it. But yeah, it was definitely a really hard choice. But, um, I just have to, I, I don't know who, who really knows if I was as sick as they say I was, you know, at this point I'm, I'm glad that I into my crunchy journey after all of this, because I think if it had happened, like if I had started getting into my crunchiness and skepticism of the doctors and, and the system and everything, who knows, who knows what my response would've been in the hospital at that time. And I am very thankful for our emergency. Um. Systems here, like medical emergency systems that help in those situations. Because what I had learned was that the sickness, so the sepsis that we had was considered, or it's what is or what was considered child bed fever in the like 18 hundreds. Basically, the thing that would kill mothers and their babies when they were born. And it's one of those things that I praise God, that I, that this happened in the decade that it did, because even a few decades ago, um, who knows, I may not be here. Malachi definitely wouldn't be here because even that he was on, he was put on an ECMO machine. And that machine through the COVID era, actually has, uh. Definitely become more robust in the way that it works. And it's, it saved his life. And they saved our lives. God saved our lives through and we are forever grateful. And I literally, every night as Malachi's going to sleep, I just pray over him and just say, thank you, God, for giving me the opportunity to be his mom because he could not be here or I could not be here, or we both might not be here if it weren't for God choosing to save us in that. And so, unfortunately, that is the end of my fertility journey, is that, uh, I will not have any more biological children. They did save my ovaries I had ever made the decision to do surrogacy, but I had chosen not to do any kind of IVF um, treatments. Um, at the time it wasn't necessarily always like a spiritual decision, but I always had this feeling of like, I just didn't, I didn't really want to, I didn't feel like it was right. Um, I don't like needles at the ti at the time I was like, no, I just don't want it to get stabbed by needles every day doing the, the hormone shots and all the things. Um, but also I, there was just something in me that was like, I just don't know if I love this. Um, love the idea of like playing God and like creating life, um, in this way. since then I have kind of jumped more into that boat of like, is the giver and taker of life, and yes, he can use something like IVF to bring people to life. Um, obviously Chrissy is one of those walking testimonies of that, and that is such a blessing, but I like it is too much responsibility to, to do that. Um. Just like I, you know, I don't believe in abortion and I don't want to take life, and I, yeah, I don't know. But I also am really thankful for IVF for other people and for obviously for you, because I'm like, my cousin and I love you, and I'm so glad you're here.

Chrissy 46:35

Yeah. Wow. I don't think I've ever actually heard your whole story just altogether in a nutshell. Here I am, like kind of tearing up and sniffling, gotta mute my, my microphone so that can't hear me sniffling. But yeah, God truly does have his hand through all of this. Um, there was a period when I was just angry also with the Lord that. I was like, God, you literally told us not to go overseas so that we could have a baby. And here we are obeying you and you haven't given us a baby. And um, during that time, he brought me to Luke one, verse 37. It says, for no word from God will ever fail. This is when God is talking to Mary and telling her, or when the angel's talking to Mary and saying that she's going to be pregnant. And he says, for no word from God will ever fail. And then down in verse 45 is says, blessed is she who has believed that the Lord would fulfill his promises to her. And when I read. Those two verses specific, well, the whole chapter first off of like God creating life a baby out of nothing. You know, like Mary was a virgin, you know, God is fully capable of creating life from a virgin. Um, and then reading those two verses, I feel like my mindset shifted from being just angry with God and confused to having the ability to wait joyfully on him. And, um, I have to go back to those passages because there really is times where like some months I'm really joyfully waiting on the Lord and some months I am. Bitter and angry waiting on the Lord. And sometimes it goes in waves as the month comes, you know, closer to ovulation. I'm joyfully waiting, and then I get my period. I'm bitterly waiting. Um, and that is the cycle. But ultimately God is good. And we see repeatedly in scripture that God is capable to give life out of nothing. Mary gets pregnant, uh, without a spouse. Elizabeth gets pregnant in her old age. Uh, Abraham and Sarah get pregnant in their old age. Also, did you realize that Isaac and Rebecca decide that they want to have a baby and God doesn't give them a baby for 20 years?

Katie 49:26

Mm.

Chrissy 49:27

I learned that this like a month ago as I was reading in Genesis and I said, 20 years Isaac and Rebecca were waiting for a baby. And so I just, you know, the Lord works so beautifully and um, I think he uses infertility journeys to just grow us so much in our faith.'cause I'd be willing to bet you would say your faith would not be where it is without having gone through that.

Katie 49:57

my goodness.

Chrissy 49:58

Yeah.

Katie 49:59

well, even, even the sense that. I had to go through that intense struggle for the several years to, to get to a point where I kind of was like, God is enough. Like I don't have to be a mother to feel complete or satisfied or to feel whole or worthy or to have a purpose. Like I already have all those things in Christ. Like I had to literally lay down desire and the dream of being a mother this way. once I did, he knew that I was ready for the next battle, really, because then I got pregnant and, you know, we, we had that blissful nine months. I had a very wonderful pregnancy. I did have a lot of nausea for the first, uh, like. Trimester and a half. It was like 15 weeks, which is much longer than nacho's supposed to last. But terrible. But then the rest of my pregnancy was so easy and wonderful, and I loved it. And I was like, I wanna do this again. Like, I just, I was like already excited about getting to be pregnant again. And then that battle came of just, I, I needed to, then again, it, it was kind of, um, like, what's his face? Why can't I think of Isaac's dad right now?

Chrissy 51:23

Jacob? No, Abraham

Katie 51:26

Abraham, thank you Abraham. Gosh. Like, who was sacrificed or who was going to be sacrificed,

Chrissy 51:33

Isaac was going to be sacrificed.

Katie 51:35

well, I was, I kept thinking Isaac, but I was like, Isaac was the one who was going to be sacrificed. I was like, but it was like, it was like Abraham. Need. Like he, he had his promised son. And so it was kind of like, okay, I have this son that God has given me and I was so overjoyed. But then he had to make that decision to then sacrifice this promised child that he was given, that was supposed to be the heir to then all of the children that he was going to have, and the stars and the sky, you know, and you're just like, wait, what? And so I had to then kind of make that decision of like, I, and I remember praying this in my hospital bed with, my parents and my pastor and his wife Wes was actually with Malachi with, and his parents in, um. The NICU at the time when he was about to go onto the ECMO machine and we were told that this was going to be the last resort, uh, for his life. Like this was they, they had been doing a bunch of stuff for a week and then on day eight they finally decided, okay, we're gonna try the ECMO machine. But once he goes on the ECMO machine, this is kind of the last thing,'cause they have to cut into your jugular and your carotid artery. And so for babies, they can only do this one time because they have to, um, those afterwards. They cannot repair them because they're too tiny to be repaired. Whereas like in an adult, they could repair them versus like cauterizing them and, and like, you know, which basically is just like capping them off and they're not usable anymore. And so we were told that once he's on ecmo. And, and one or once he actually goes, so he goes on ecmo. Once he gets off of it, he can never go back on it because he doesn't have like another set. And so it was like all or nothing. And I remember praying out loud in my hospital room with my parents and my pastor and his wife and, and just saying like, Lord, even if the outcome that I want, which is obviously for my child to live, if this outcome doesn't happen, like I will still choose to praise you like I will, you are still good no matter what happens. And I, I give you his life, like his life is in your hands and you get to make this decision right now. And the doctors are going to do everything they can, but you are the giver and the taker of life. And I will still praise you. And this was a few days after I had had my own hysterectomy. So this is me praying this. Knowing that I would never have the chance to have another child again. So if, if he didn't make it, it was, it would've been really hard. But I still believe that God is good and I am just so, oh my gosh. It is, wild now. Like Malachi's almost two, he's gonna turn two next month. Um, and he is just so awesome. Like Mal, he's just so great. And it would've been a lot harder. Like, now that I know him, I'm like, it's, it's so much harder. So I can't even like, think about like, you know, Abraham, when he had to sacrifice Isaac, he had already had many years with him and had to then go and make that choice. So he's like, I already have this relationship. And know, I'm not saying that it was, it would've been easier if Malachi had. Passed away, uh, I didn't really get to know him, because then it would've been the whole like, oh, I never even got to know him. But now it's like, I couldn't even imagine being in Abraham's place, like having that relationship and then choosing to do that, let alone what God then had to do to then send his son to the earth to just be a willing sacrifice. Like he knew that that actually had to happen. And so my small sacrifice in that moment just it, it gives you like an image of like what God had to go through. Because if I was feeling this much pain in this situation, how much more pain did he endure? And just makes me even more thankful for. Everything that he did do and his sacrifice that he did make, and obviously every day I'm just so grateful. My son is here, so it's really great when he is having a tantrum and I am like, praise you Lord, for you are good. Even though I want to throw my child out the window right now. And that is how I feel often.

Chrissy 56:15

Hey, the terrible twos are starting. I just, I can't help but think, like as you were saying, that is like through all of this, you had God with you, and through my journey, I have God with me. We have God with us, walking with us through every single step of the way, holding us, being our comfort. Um. But when we look at the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross, taking on the sins of the world so that God, our father can have a relationship with his children, the the people of the earth that he created, it literally says that when Jesus was on the cross, he said, God, my God, why have you forsaken me? Because Jesus took on so much sin that the father could not even look at him. And that is a really. Incomprehendible amount of pain that Jesus felt on the cross in addition to the physical pain that he was enduring from literal nails through his wrists and ankles.

Katie 57:51

Yeah.

Chrissy 57:54

and that's the sacrifice that God made for us to have a relationship with us. And I just look at the sacrifices that we make in our lives of maximize staying stateside when we wanna be overseas, and the sacrifice that you had to make of Lord, you are the giver and taker of life. And if you

Katie 58:24

Yeah.

Chrissy 58:25

take my baby, then he's yours. And the sacrifices that our parents made in saying, God, I trust you. In sending my child off to college, you know, that's a level of loss and like these sacrifices are nothing compared to the sacrifice that Jesus made for us. And so I think we should just end that episode there and maybe we can talk about the practicalities of fertility, um, in our next episode. But yeah, just wanna just reflect, I, I wanna encourage all of our listeners that as you're listening to this, take a moment and reflect on the gift that God has given you through Jesus. That while we were still sinners, while we were wretches, and we were children of wrath, as the Bible says. God sent his single only son to live the life that we could never live and die. The death that we deserve to die and be raised again from death to life in order to create a way for us to commune with the Lord. And he says that whoever confesses with their mouth that Jesus is Lord and believes he was raised from the dead, he will be saved. No ifs, ands, or buts about it. And so I just wanna encourage you guys as our listeners, if you are listening to this and you haven't put your faith in Jesus, um, I want you to consider it. Seriously consider it. He tells us we don't have to clean ourselves up before. We come to him, he'll clean us up once we're there. He just wants a relationship with us and he has sacrificed everything for that relationship. And so I'd encourage you to just put your trust in him. Um, find somebody, find a believer who you know and love, and ask them to share their story on how they came to know Jesus. And maybe Katie and I could also at some point share our testimonies of how we came to know Jesus. But

Katie 1:01:08

Yeah,

Chrissy 1:01:09

that's just what I wanna leave us with today. Katie, do you have anything else to add before we end?

Katie 1:01:18

I just wanna give a big ditto to that because I, I don't know where I would be in my own fertility journey if it weren't for. Jesus. again, like I, I did go through that period of and anger and frustration and what's really cool, like as you were saying, like God did all this for us, in our sinful state and even after becoming a Christian, which for me was much like was, and for you too was in our younger years, which is a blessing, but we don't have to clean ourselves up in order to then continue to be in his. Grace, he continues to offer us new mercies every single day. And so what was so beautiful too about that season being angry with God was that that was, that was it. I did not try to clean myself up for him. And I purely just, my prayers I felt were more like fights and they were more like just ranting was, it was, I didn't even have capacity to pray normal prayers of I love you, Lord, you're great. It was just, I am really frustrated right now. I, I'm really angry. I am bitter. I don't think that you can hear me. I, and I was just so honest with him. And what is so beautiful too about Christ is that. He continues to love us even through that, and he does not change. He will never change. We will change. We are meant to change. We are meant to through the sanctification process. And honestly, I think having these battles through fertility or through anything, through any kind of challenge that you can imagine, big or small, like dealing with a tantrum or even a poopy diaper is a challenge every day. But losing a loved one or battling with infertility or battling with chronic illnesses, those are big challenges that I, I'll leave, that God actually put into our lives to help sanctify us because again, through the battle that I faced and through the battles that I will face again in the future, I recognize battle that Christ did fight for me, and it just gives me a little glimpse into. His immense sacrifice. And for that, I can never repay him. And we're not meant to repay him. And that is grace is all about. Like we're we don't have to do anything. And that is so crazy. It's like a totally flipped upside down kind of a kingdom that he's running here. It's like, he's like, you do nothing. You just, you trust me. You say yes to me, that I am your king and that I'm your Lord, and that I'm your savior and your father and your friend. And that is so beautiful. And we don't have to do anything we should. We should want to try to better ourselves and hopefully the Holy Spirit works through people to do that sanctify, sanctifying process and refining and everything. But it's so beautiful that we can come to him angry through our own journeys and our battles. And yet he still loves us and still wants us, which is just crazy because. I don't feel like I deserve it, but that's the point. We don't, we don't deserve it. We never will deserve it, and yet he is knocking at our door, which is so cool. Yeah. Chrissy, would you like to do the honors and sign us off for this episode?

Chrissy 1:05:17

I would love to, as the famous apostle Paul said in one of his epistles. Remember that whether you eat or drink or whatever you do. Make sure you are doing it all for the glory of God. We'll see you next time.