Crunchy Stewardship

The Labor Prep Episode: Why "Birth is Not an Emergency"

• Katie Jones • Season 2 • Episode 47

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Welcome back to Crunchy Stewardship! As we transition from our fertility series into actual pregnancy and birth prep, we are tackling the big decisions you'll face before delivery day.

But first, Katie has a massive stewardship win to share: she officially launched an Azure Standard drop site right at her local church! When you live in a rural area and are tired of driving 40 minutes in the snow just to afford bulk organic groceries, organizing a local drop is an absolute game-changer for the grocery budget and for building a crunchy community.

When it comes to labor, our culture is incredibly quick to treat childbirth like a medical emergency—but God designed our bodies to do this! Today, we discuss the pros and cons of hospitals, birth centers, and home births, and why choosing the right environment is crucial for a peaceful delivery. We also weigh the realities of common medical interventions, from the Tylenol debate to epidurals and Pitocin, so you can make informed, prayerful decisions.

In this episode, you'll learn:

  • Random Revelation: Katie’s new Azure Standard drop site and how buying healthy staples in bulk saves serious grocery money.
  • The Pregnancy "Avoid" List: A nuanced look at the risks of cat litter, sushi, lunch meats (listeria), and the recent debates surrounding acetaminophen.
  • Birth Settings: Why "birth is not an emergency" and how to evaluate if a hospital, birth center, or home birth is the right fit for your family.
  • Intervention Realities: The truth about epidurals (including loss of pushing sensation and stalled labor) and medical inductions like Pitocin, membrane sweeps, and Foley balloons.
  • Natural Inductions & Movement: How to physically prepare your pelvic floor with deep squats, the importance of "curb walking," and why laboring flat on your back works against gravity.
  • Mental Prep & Hypnobirthing: Why you need to shut down the horror stories and surround yourself with positive, empowering birth testimonies.

Resources mentioned:

  • Groceries: Azure Standard - https://www.azurestandard.com/?a_aid=50bb0fcd9b
  • App: Expecting and Empowered - https://www.expectingandempowered.com/e-e-app
  • App: Christian Hypnobirthing - https://www.christianhypnobirthing.com/
  • Book: Ina May's Guide to Childbirth by Ina May Gaskin - https://amzn.to/3PXb9Vg 
  • Book: The Headspace Guide to a Mindful Pregnancy by Andy Puddicombe - https://amzn.to/43oLpEm 
  • Book: Hypnobirthing: The Mongan Method by Marie Mongan - https://amzn.to/42KFVUj 

Chapters:

00:00 Welcome to Crunchy Stewardship
00:33 Labor Prep Episode Setup
02:10 Azure Standard Drop Site
08:52 Church Drop Program Details
11:08 Pregnancy Avoid List
18:08 Tylenol Debate and Tangent
24:29 Stretching and Birth Setting
33:59 Birth Choices Matter
34:42 Better Labor Positions
36:48 Midwives Doulas Explained
38:34 Epidurals Realities Risks
47:21 Induction Options Medical
52:13 Natural Induction Tips
57:48 Hypnobirthing Positive Stories

Remember, whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God (1 Corinthians 10:31).

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FREE How to Afford Non-Toxic Living Workbook: https://crunchystewardship.com/how-to-afford-non-toxic-living

Speaker 2

Welcome to Crunchy Stewardship. I'm Chrissy Rombach.

Speaker 3

And I'm Katie Fiola Jones. We're cousins on a mission to honor God by stewarding our health spiritually, mentally, and physically.

Speaker 2

From ancestral nutrition and natural remedies to biblical finance and holistic health, we are digging deep into how God intended us to live.

Speaker 4

So grab yourself a raw milk latte and join us as we unpack the ins and outs of crunchy stewardship

Chrissy

Hey, everybody. Welcome back to Crunchy Stewardship. You are here with Chrissy and Katie, and we are going to be continuing with the theme of fertility and pregnancy and babies, um, that we've been on for a while. We thought we were going to be finished with our fertility series, um, but after talking we decided, you know what? Let's just kind of continue because babies are fun to talk about. Having babies is fun to talk about, so let's just keep talking about it. So today, we are going to be talking about preparing for labor and birth, and different strategies, different mindsets, different physical things, mental s- things you can do to prepare yourself to actually deliver a baby into the world. Um, so we're really excited about today's episode. It's gonna be great. I'm gonna be learning a lot because obviously I have never done this before. I am currently pregnant with my first baby. We're at 13 weeks right now. Um, and baby's supposed to be coming in Thanksgiving time, so Katie's going to be teaching me a lot this episode. So we might be a little more Q&A-ish at some point. I'm sure that might happen. Um, but without further ado, we're gonna start off with our random revelation for today. So Katie, what is our random revelation?

Katie

Uh, yeah, by no means am I an expert on giving birth, but I will do my best to share the knowledge that I have learned to you. Anyway, my random revelation today is, uh, kind of just another experience-based thing, and it's more just kinda like a fun little announcement thing, I guess. So we do most of our grocery shopping from a place called Azure Standard. It's A-Z-U-R-E. And honestly, a lot of people pronounce it Azure. Uh, I actually am not 100% sure if I am pronouncing it right or if other people are pronouncing it right. But A-Z-U-R-E Standard is the place. It's an online site where you can basically order anything and everything. It's kind of like a Costco, but for healthy organic foods is the way that I like to explain it. And it's all online. They, they don't have a, an in-person... Well, I've heard that they sell a lot of their produce or their products in general, it's not just produce, a lot of their products out in Oregon, which is where they're from. So there's like stores that are close to their farm where they sell it. But as a shopper across the United States from them, I order tons of things from them. Our family, our household here, we order most of our stuff, most of our like main groceries come from Azure, including like household products like our toilet paper and our, a lot of our cleaning supplies, and all sorts of stuff. They, they pretty much sell almost anything you can imagine for your house, whether it's food, plants, uh, toi- like paper supplies, cleaning stuff, you name it. And the way that it works is that you actually put together an order that comes once a month, and it goes to a local drop site. So the local drop site could be at somebody's house, it could be at a local business, it could be at a church. And they're run by just volunteers who set up and organize the local drop sites. And so once a month, the truck comes and drops off your order to your drop site, and then everybody in the area who has ordered to that drop site comes on the pickup day. We all help unload the truck and divvy it up into the piles. You know, people's names are on the boxes. You put them in the piles, and then everybody goes home with their And f- I started, or we started ordering from Azure back in Colorado before we moved here to Michigan. And we were really, really loving it. You can get bulk supplies of everything. We order like five pounds of walnuts, organic walnuts from them. Is it... Uh, that, that was like one of the first things that we purchased, uh, from them. And things like frozen fruits. We get lots of organic frozen fruit from them. But we also get like flour and, um, wheat berries is where I've been getting them. And again, things like toilet paper and cleaning supplies. We get everything. And so we were doing it in Colorado, and then we moved here to Michigan, and the closest drop sites to us were like 30 to 40, I mean really 40 minutes away from our house. And that was like a really far drive for us, and primarily me, because I'm usually the one going to pick up the orders. And it was a long drive. And yes, it's only once a month, but when we were having our winter storms in, here in Michigan, it was not fun to drive all the way over there in the snow And so my random revelation/just announcement for this is that I ended up starting a drop site here in our town, which is super fun. And we, Azure actually has this program called, um, Azure Around The Table, and you can actually set up your church as a local drop site. And then they actually donate 2% of the proceeds to your church. And so we got our church set up as a local drop site here, and that means that our church will also, like, earn a little bit of money just as kind of a donation from Azure, which is just super cool. And anyway, our first drop is actually happening next week, and I'm nervous and excited. The last site I was a part of that was, like, 40 minutes from our house had, over 100 people who were ordering and coming to this site to pick up their groceries. We are starting out with a very modest six families, and that is including us as one of them. So there are five other people. And yeah, it's, it's fun. I enjoy organizing stuff like that, especially when it's just something I'm passionate about. And food obviously is one of those things I'm very passionate about, especially really good healthy food. And most of the people who shop at Azure are all about that because they're all buying organic, good produce mostly made in America. And it's, I've met a lot of really cool people through it, and I'm excited now as a, like, a drop coordinator to get to meet more of the people in our community through this and just kind of connect people together through it. And I'm just really excited about it. So it's just been on the top of my mind, and I feel like it's very relevant to our podcast and, uh, people who listen to our podcast because they're also on that journey too. So if you're interested in Azure and shopping with them, I'll s- I'll just share a link in the description of the podcast. Um, it is a referral link, so if you end up using it and shopping there, I'll get, like, a, just a small kickback. I actually don't even know what it is. It's maybe, like, $5 towards groceries, which does go a long way when you're talking about groceries. I don't actually even know if that's what it is. But I'll s- I'll share a link if people are curious and interested in it. Um, they have drops literally all over the United States. Uh, and I think they even technically deliver to, like, Alaska and Hawaii, but I don't know if it's considered, like, the same and if it's the same way that they do it here in the continental US. But anyway, check it out. I highly recommend them, and it's really fun. And you get to meet lots of people who also like good food. So there you go. There you have it.

Chrissy

That's great. That's exciting. I didn't know that. Congratulations.

Katie

Thanks. Yeah, I, it's been the works for a while, and I kept forgetting about it because I put in an application many months ago, and then I also was, like, talking with our church. It, it really started with talking with our church to make sure that they were on board because it's a big semi-truck coming to our church, and it's at random times throughout the month. And so we, I had to make sure that they were on board, so I had to go talk to them. They had to talk with all of the elders and deacons, and it had to go through all these checks and balances through the church, just, you know, the church politics system kind of a thing. And so, yeah, then it finally got approved, and that took maybe, like, a month to a month and a half, and then I had to apply for, uh, like, on Azure's website and fill out this whole form. And then they, like, got my form mixed up with just my personal account, which was kind of funny because then they're like, "We're trying to, like, find the address that you put in, on your application, but it looks like it's on a dead-end road, and we really can't put a semi-truck down there," which we, our house personally is on the very end of this, like, windy dead-end road. And I'm like, "Yeah, of course I don't want a semi-truck coming down that road. They would super get stuck." I was like, "That's not the, the address I put. I definitely put our church address." Like, I still had the copy. Anyway, it was just, like, a, a silly back and forth. And they, Azure started this new, um, Around the Table program just at the end of last year, I think. It hasn't even been going on for a year. Like, they, they kicked it off, and I was, like, all on board. Like, "I'm gonna get my church, like, set up on this," when they announced it. And they have had hundreds of churches around the US applying for

Chrissy

Wow.

Katie

overload just getting all these applications in. So I can imagine

Chrissy

What a blessing.

Katie

Yeah. Yeah. So it's, it's really cool. I'm very excited about it, and I know that there's actually a lot of people in our community who are excited about it, which makes me even more excited about it because people are like, "Yes, this is so great," because just like me, they've been driving really far to go get their orders as well. So it just, yeah, it's really cool, and I'm excited about it. And we're starting small, but we'll grow, I'm sure. So yeah.

Chrissy

That's great. I love it. I love it. All right, well let's transition into our topic for today's episode. So preparing your body and your mind for labor and birth. So first things first, let's talk about pregnancy in general, things that are recommended to avoid during pregnancy for various reasons. Um, cat litter is one. Um, cat litter, they say to avoid it. I, I guess you could probably be in the same room as a litter box, I'm sure. But like if someone's scooping the litter, you need to get your booty out of there, um, because it releases... Oh, what is the bacteria called? Do you remember?

Katie

I don't even know. I just remember that it was a thing that had to do with, like, the cat feces, that

Chrissy

Yes.

Katie

is in it that is super toxic for like, in the womb and for pregnant women. I honestly don't even remember. But whenever you, like, look up anything about things to avoid while pregnant, cat litter is, like, almost always on the top of the list. In fact, I, I have this, like, handbook here from our birth center, and literally cat litter is, like, number two or something on this list. And it's just... It's so funny, 'cause I'm like, random." But it makes a lot of sense. I mean, there's a lot of, like, moms at home who probably have cats and are s- you know, typically out the litter boxes. So that

Chrissy

Yep.

Katie

become the husband's job or another kid in the home's job while you're pregnant.

Chrissy

For sure. For sure. Um, other ones to avoid during pregnancy: smoking, drugs, alcohol, obviously. Don't be doing that. all right. Some foods that are recommended to avoid that could be questionable. Some... It honestly depends on who you're talking to and how important it is to avoid these things. But particularly lunch meats and soft cheeses, um, specifically unpasteurized cheeses, can have a bacteria on them called listeria. And as a person who is not pregnant, listeria poses a very low threat to you. Our bodies are very quick to filter through it and just not really worry about it. But pregnant women are at a 10 times higher risk of developing a listeria infection from this bacteria, and that is enough to end the pregnancy, um, to cause a miscarriage. And so that is one thing that can be kind of scary if you think about it. Also, I know plenty of pregnant women who

Katie

Yeah,

Chrissy

where it's totally fine except for the one instance that it's not, and so that's why they say to avoid it. Um, they say that also with sushi. I think we forgot to mention sushi, but sushi is in that list also. Um, my midwife specifically said, she said California rolls are fine because that's not real fish, which I, I kind of giggled at that.

Katie

I was one

Chrissy

and then sushi tempura style is fine because it's cooked. Um, but having the, the raw fish sushi is when it gets a little bit more dicey and can cause some more problems

Katie

had the lunch meat. Not a-- maybe not as often. I'm also not, like, super m- a sandwich person. I do like a sandwich every now and then, but, like, I don't eat tons and tons of them. I still had lunch meat, and I think I still had some soft cheeses. I had sushi, like, once or twice, but I was a little bit more cautious about it, mostly because in Colorado we don't have a lot of, like, super fresh fish where it's, like, really good, less risk of, you know, any kind of listeria kind of thing in general. Um, I read a book early, early on, way before I was pregnant, and it's called, um, It Starts With the Egg, and this lady goes through all of the actual data on like what lunch meat would do to you and like all those things that you're supposed to avoid and the chances of you getting like yes you have a higher risk of it and you do it does pose a higher risk for the baby like so if you do get listeria it's like really dangerous and really bad for the baby so there is like a hot like a something could go wrong and it could go very wrong however the actual chances of it happening are so so so slim that it's kind of like is it worth it to avoid maybe maybe for some people um i avoided it maybe slightly more but also wasn't like i must stay away from it 100

Chrissy

I

Katie

isolated um

Chrissy

myself being more on the cautious side of if I have control over what I'm eating and I really want a lunch meat sandwich. Um, for instance, last weekend we were on a road trip, and I really wanted Jersey Mike's. That was just where I was at. Um, and so I was able to ask them to toast it for me, and so at least heat up the meat and the cheese. Um, so if I'm in control of a situation like that, w- I would, um, just at least ask them to heat it up for me. But I've also been in situations, you know, at a church function where they cater in deli sandwiches, and that's all that's there, and I'm starving, so I'm going to eat it. You know?

Katie

Yeah.

Chrissy

It's kind of a...

Katie

Just like

Chrissy

It, it's something

Katie

not

Chrissy

Yeah. We could be aware of it. Um, and I think awareness is one of those really, uh, strong places to be, because once you're aware, then you're able to make that informed decision on what kind of risks are you willing to take. And we take risks every single day. I drive my vehicle every single day while pregnant. I am willing to bet you I have a higher likelihood of my baby dying while me driving my vehicle while pregnant than I do of contracting listeria from eating lunch meat.

Katie

that's a good point.

Chrissy

anyways

Katie

be aware that that's just one of those things. You can do your own research and make your own decision. The other thing that I wanted to share because it was a recent thing, and maybe some people out there followed this or not, you know, became the HHS secretary, the Health and Human Services secretary here in the United States when President Donald Trump became the president, um, again recently, and he's been go- he's been tasked with a whole bunch of different things on making America healthy again. And one of the journeys that he has been going on is trying to determine the causes of autism. And one of the things that they kind of announced back in September, it was actually around my birthday. I remember this because I remember that they were, they had announced that they were going to make the announcement on September 23rd, which is my birthday, and I was like, "Whoa, this is crazy." And it's a really big deal because our foster daughter back in Colorado, uh, has autism, and so it's just, it's a topic very s- like on the, it's on the forefront of my mind often because we have experienced it, um, personally in our household. And so I tuned in to watch it live, and it was kind of a funny press conference that they gave at the time. And one of the main things that, uh, Donald Trump specifically talked about, and it's, it's funny because he mentioned it a bunch, so if you... I'm laughing because it was really funny because he was so adamant about it. But he was like, "You must avoid Tylenol during pregnancy," um, or like acetaminophen, which is traditionally in the pa- ha- handful of years in the past, um, only the last few, maybe couple decades, it's like the, um, pain medication that is recommended over other medications, such as Advil, which, uh, across the board the consensus is things like Advil should be avoided during pregnancy. However, is usually the recommended one. during this press conference, um, RFK, but specifically President Trump, was very adamant that you must avoid Tylenol during pregnancy, um, due to, you know, this alleged link to autism, and there's like not a medical consensus on this. However, the mar- the most interesting thing, the m- the most interesting fact about this is that if you actually... There was people who went back years in the archives of, um, Tylenol's, like, social media accounts, and they have posts on their, like, company's webpage that talks about pregnant individuals, like pregnant women should not take Tylenol. Like, they're like, "We don't recommend pregnant individuals taking Tylenol." And so this is back in, like, you know, when social media first started, and they would just like kinda post things about whatever. And this is out there that they, many years ago, kind of did not recommend it. But it's just like the one pain medication that is kind of slightly recommended above the others during pregnancy. I, uh, my general feeling is You should probably try to avoid it. But I also feel that way about pain medications, you're pregnant or not, and trying to determine what the actual cause is of a headache or a certain pain in your body or a fever or whatever, and treating it more naturally. So that is, that's like my two cents on it. Again, I am not a medical doctor and, and have not done tons and tons of research. This is just what I'm sharing as far as like what I've learned out there. But Donald Trump specifically says, take Tylenol," because it, he basically is like, "It will cause autism," which I don't, I don't know if it does or not, but it's just one of those things that makes me giggle because I watched it, and it just... He's kind of

Chrissy

Trump.

Katie

person when he

Chrissy

He's,

Katie

statements.

Chrissy

good at rage baiting. Can we just say? He is like king rage baiter. I-- Okay, sorry. We are going to go on a side tangent real quick about Donald Trump, because it just made me giggle. I saw a political flag the other day that said Trump 2028,

Katie

Oh, boy.

Chrissy

at my husband and I said, "Do those people know that Trump can't run for president again?" Because he's, like, in his second term, you can't run for a third term.

Katie

Oh, yeah.

Chrissy

about it once that he was going to run for president in 2028," and it just made every single Democrat really mad.

Katie

Yes.

Chrissy

And even the ones I'm sure who know that he can't run for president, but just because he was joking about it

Katie

Yep.

Chrissy

just made everybody mad, and it just makes me giggle. I'm like, why? Why do you just make... You just poke the bear. He just pokes.

Katie

there were, there were all those like no king protests kind of as a result of him saying this because they're like, "Well, you can't run again. That's basically being like a dictator or a king or whatever." And so then there were all the protests, right? And then he posted on his social media saying like, "Thank you so much to all of the Democrats out there who, um, went and protested against any kings. Good news is we still don't have any, so you're doing a great job." And it was just... I read it, and the way he like wrote it and said it, I was like, "That was pretty witty." But then that was like followed up a few weeks later by him basically claiming to be, uh, Jesus Christ. Um,

Chrissy

Oh, Lord.

Katie

right around Easter or something, and I was like, "Oh my gosh." Like, I just, like there are times where he says things that just like kill me 'cause they're so funny. Like, the thing where he's like, "Yeah, way to go. Thanks for making sure we don't s- have kings still." then, and then he does some stuff that's just so dumb, and I'm like, "What? You're just... Do you ever think?" I don't even know. It's... Anyway, okay. Let's

Chrissy

Anyways, okay, back to our topic off of Donald Trump. That was just a little side thing. Anyways.

Katie

let's talk about maybe just, like, starting to prepare your body a little bit more for, um, birth. And we maybe touched a little bit about this, but since we're kind of on the topic now of, like, birth and labor and all those kinds of things, really, the best thing to be doing is stretching a lot, and especially, like, working on your, like, lower body stretching. Um, doing, like, deep squats is really good. Um, and just, like, kind of even practicing different birthing positions, especially as you get closer to giving birth and, and to your due date. It's really important. So I know, like, doing a lot of squats and certain lunges. Again, you have to be really careful because like we said last week, um, you have the... What is the hormone? Relaxin?

Chrissy

Elastin

Katie

Elastin. Elastin. Um, you have to be careful because if you stretch too much, you literally can pop, like, your hips out of the sockets and stuff because your muscles, when you get closer and closer to your due date and to giv- to giving birth, your body is getting stretchier in general. And so your muscles sometimes don't have as much of the pull to, like, keep things together. So if you actually, like, push it too far, it's like you can pop things out of place. So you just need to be careful. But stretching and, like, doing the deep lunges and, um, like, I don't even know. Like, it- being in, like, happy baby pose is really, like, good too, I know, for, like, pelvic floor stretching. Um, and doing just different pelvic floor exercises can be really important and helpful. I recommended last week an app called, um, Expecting and Empowered, and they go through a bunch of those different things. But then another important decision that you have to make kind of it comes to, like, how you wanna give birth is, like, where you wanna give birth because I feel like those kind of coincide because there are a lot of people who want to use a lot of the, like, natural birthing positions and things like that, that maybe aren't as, like, welcomed in certain settings as they would be in other settings. And so it's important to go through and make all of your... Like, make a birthing plan is really what it comes down to. But again, holding it very loosely because, like, for example, in my situation, um, a lot of the plans that we made did not happen because just circumstances changed, and we're very thankful for emergency, uh, procedures that are in place, um, for situations like ours to make sure that we didn't die. And so I'm very imp- that was really awesome. But in general, uh, my belief about Birth and pregnancy is that it's not medical emergency until it becomes a medical emergency. Like, birth itself isn't an emergency. And so personally have the belief of, like, hospitals are really meant for emergencies and problems, like, really problems that you have. they can do other things, and oftentimes people, like, go to them for lots of other, like, minor things. But I really like the idea of more of a natural setting for, like, birth and labor because, again, like that for, like, centuries, like, and decades and for all of life, we've been, as women, giving birth in our homes and in more natural settings. I mean, even before our homes, it's like people were giving birth outside in wherever they were living, right? I don't even know.

Chrissy

Can I just say I'm so thankful our sanitary procedures have improved because I'm pretty confident delivering baby in the grass or in the sand probably doesn't have the highest or the lowest rates of infection, if I were to guess.

Katie

Probs.

Chrissy

it's still important to be clean, guys.

Katie

Definitely.

Chrissy

It, it's actually biblical. The Bible has-- talks about cleanliness and cleaning yourself and ceremonial cleansing and this, that, and the other thing so many times because hygiene is important. So don't go give birth in the dirt.

Katie

Yep.

Chrissy

Just don't.

Katie

Yeah. We don't recommend that. I, even... So I get this question a lot from tons of people, but especially moms who are pregnant or soon-to-be moms who are pregnant. But in, in our situation, and if you're not familiar with my birth story with Malachi, I'd recommend going and listening to, like, 11 episodes ago, both Chrissy and I kind of shared our fertility journeys, and specifically I shared our journey, um, giving birth to Malachi and, uh, all of the d- kind of crazy stuff that happened during his birth. So if you haven't listened to that, go listen to it so that you can catch up to what I'm saying But given our situation... So our whole plan originally was to give birth at a birthing center, and I loved our birthing center. We did lots of really cool classes. They were super helpful in just trying to give us more natural ways to do things during pregnancy and then during labor and all this stuff. So I, I really, really enjoyed them. Um, I- the rooms that you, like, give birth in are basically, like, just fancy hotel rooms. They have really nice big king beds. They have... They don't feel like a hospital. They... I mean, each of the rooms was decorated as a different season because it was called Seasons Birth Center, so they had four of these birthing rooms, and so it was, like, spring, summer, fall, winter, and each one kind of had this different feel to it, and they had, like, diffusers in them, and they had beautiful, like, lighting, and then they had these giant showers, and they had bathtubs in them. So you could choose basically in the room what space you wanted to use and how you wanted to use it and where you wanted to give birth because you could give birth in the tub, you could give birth in the shower, you could give birth in the bed, or you could just be standing and using any of the other equipment that they had in there to help you give birth. And just, I loved it. They even had, like, snacks and, like, a whole, like, kitchen full of, like, foods and stuff that you could, like, go eat from, or you could, like, bring your own and put them in the refrigerator and all this stuff. They had... It was very chill, whereas, like, in the hospital, they don't want you even eating because they're, they're like, "Well, there's a chance that, like, if you do have to go get a C-section or if you do need, like, an epidural or if you do need these things, you can't really have food in your system and stuff." And so they don't want you eating in the hospital, and so they, like, in, in a lot of situations, they keep you from eating. And you need energy, you need food when you're, like, basically running a marathon a million times while giving birth. And so there are just a lot of different things that a lot of more, a lot more opportunities or, uh... What is a good word for it? Just a lot more, like, things that you can do when you're at a birthing center or even if you choose to do a home birth, which if we had, had gone well, and maybe even if it hadn't gone well, but I was still able to have children again, I probably would have leaned more towards having a home birth the second time. Um, and, and so I guess that brings me to the question that I didn't actually answer that I was leading up to is people ask me- If I were to go back and do it again, knowing now what I know, would I still give birth in the birthing center versus in a hospital? And if I knew that all the emergency stuff was going to happen, sure, maybe I would say, "Yes, I want to go give birth in a hospital." However, I really do believe that and birth is not an emergency, and it shouldn't be treated as one until it is actually an emergency, which was my situation. And so then we moved to the hospital. And so, no, I actually really loved being at the birthing center, even though plans didn't go well. Sure, maybe things could have gone differently if we were at the hospital. There's, there's a lot of things that go through my head of, like, would we have even contracted sepsis? Because they probably would have put me on antibiotics much earlier if they thought something was wrong. Like, you know, it's just like I can play that all in my mind of like, sure, maybe they could have caught things faster, but at the same time, that, that wasn't what the birth that I wanted. I wanted the peaceful, calm birth that I envisioned, and things were going really well until they weren't. I loved being able to be in the bathtub during, um, labor. I loved being able to, like, take a shower and just, like, stand in the warm shower. It was just so nice. And the lighting was beautiful, and the bed was so comfy. Like, all the things, it was so great. Um, but then it was great until it wasn't. So, yeah, maybe if I knew that the emergency was going to happen, but if-- you don't know that those things are gonna happen. So I would go back and still choose the birthing center because birth should be calm and beautiful, I believe. Um, but I also have friends who are like, "Give me the epidural as soon as you can and just get this baby out of me." And that, that's like, that's all they want. And that is totally fine. And it is every woman's choice to give birth the way they want to give birth. Um, are things that maybe we could talk about of, like, different risks to different interventions during, um, birth. Uh, but yeah. Uh, you really have the three options of, like, hospital, kind of like a birthing center, or even having, like, a home birth. Um, and then, yeah, there are different, like, positions and different things that you can do in order to get your baby out. Actually, uh, laying on your back like you see traditionally in the movies and, like, pushing a baby out while laying down is actually kind of, like, the worst position that you can actually give birth in because first off, gravity's working against you when you're like-- when your pelvic, you know, floor is like-- or your, like, pelvis, you know, is tilted backwards. So the baby's kind of, like, wanting to come back more into you versus coming out. And so a lot of, like, birthing centers or, like, if you were to work with, like, a midwife or a doula, they would talk to you about, like, how is your friend when giving birth because the baby just then kind of comes out more naturally. Um, and relaxing is really good because then your body is, is able to kind of like, uh, your pelvic floor specifically is able to relax and kind of open up versus, like, staying clenched. Because you think of it, like, literally it's a floor that the baby is, like, sitting on. And if it needs to open and relax and release the muscles, you yourself should be as relaxed as possible. And so trying to get into that posi- that place is important. and then there's things like birthing balls, which are basically like yoga balls. And then there's the, uh... I don't remember what they're called, but they're basically like those ropes that hang from the wall, but they're like... Do what I'm talking about, Chrissy, where you can, like, hang from them and, like, squat really low, but, like, holding onto them? You know what I'm talking

Chrissy

Yes. My birthing center has a ladder, probably same concept, but it's like a big ladder on the wall. I forgot what it's called, but I looked at it and said, "Hmm, never seen that before, but okay."

Katie

Yeah. So it's just kind of like educating yourself of, like, all these different options for how to give birth. Oh, so, uh, I think another important thing, I mentioned, like, midwives and doulas. There's a little bit of a difference. Midwives, uh, typically are, like... And maybe you can Google the specific phrase for, like, what midwives are, but it's like they have, like,

Chrissy

It's a,

Katie

They...

Chrissy

it's a certified nurse wi- nurse midwife. It's a, um, nurse practitioner degree essentially. So they are a provider, um, and they are certified to be able to catch the baby when the baby is delivered, and also perform interventions that are necessary and things like that.

Katie

Yep. So interestingly enough, at our birthing center, they didn't have a lot of, like, interventions even there to choose from. So, like, if I did decide I wanted an epidural, I would have had to move to the hospital, 'cause they didn't have any of that, and they didn't have, What was I gonna say? They, they just didn't have as many things there. They would've, we would have had to go to the hospital if we had chosen at some point that we wanted to do that.

Chrissy

Did your birthing center have nitrous oxide?

Katie

Yes.

Chrissy

Okay. Yeah, mine does too. I still don't quite know exactly what that's for. Apparently, it's used to help during the transition period of labor when it's the worst.

Katie

to, like, calm you down. And I can't remember. I should have used that. That would've been helpful. I would recommend it. I don't know. I didn't use it, so I don't know it makes a big difference or not. But

Chrissy

see what I decide.

Katie

so the midwives, uh, at, at our birthing center, our midwives also had, um, admitting privileges at our hospital, which was just a few minutes away from birthing center that we were at. And so time where we needed to go to the hospital, or if anybody needs to go to the hospital, they can admit a patient to the hospital, and then they can continue to stay with the patient. However, the hospital then, like me as a patient, w- I was, like, transferred to the doctor, and I can't remember his name at this time. I used to remember his name, but I'm like, "I don't remember that dude anymore," which is kind of funny. But yeah, then we moved there, and things just really changed. And, uh, I was c- still... I was contracting, like, every few minutes. But, um, I was given an epidural, which, boy, if you have to get an epidural while you are contracting every few minutes, you basically... I mean, maybe you guys know out there that if you get an epidural, they put it into your spine, and you have to stay very still while they're doing it so that they don't hurt you or paralyze you. And that's really hard when you are contracting. But I had a very good, uh... What would that, what would that doctor be called, the one that, like, puts it in you?

Chrissy

Anesthesiologist.

Katie

Thank you, my medical professional. An anesthesiologist. He was great. And, uh, got it in me. I actually, I kinda remember that guy, and him just talking to me. And he was definitely speaking my language because he was, like, trying to help me, like, stay calm by using humor and laughter. And you'd think, like, "Oh, why would you wanna be laughing?" But that for me was, like, exactly what I needed to just be like, "This is a ridiculous situation. Can you imagine?" Like, and we were just joking about it, and it was great. But I did have to get an epidural. actually have to get an e- epidural later during, uh, all of my hospital stay too. I actually had an ongoing epidural for several days, which was also something new that I learned because I had always been under the belief that first off, you can't get an epidural once you're, like, fully in labor and contracting so much, so you have to, like, decide earlier. the case. Um, 'cause, uh, you know, I obviously had it when I was, like, contracting every three minutes or something. And then I've also- I, I also thought that you could not have an epidural for, like, long periods of time. Um, but I also found out that is also not the case because I had like a three-day epidural during, uh, when I had to get multiple surgeries and stuff, and it ju- they just numbed me. Basically the same thing, they numbed me from kind of like the belly button down, and I couldn't feel anything, and I couldn't move. I was still able to get pushed around in a wheelchair to go see my baby on the other side of the hospital, but I couldn't, like, stand up or do anything. And then even when I was, like, holding Malachi, I had to be, like, monitored because I was, like, like, numb from my body, like my belly button down or whatever. So they're like, "You have to be, like, with a nurse or another adult in the room at all times." And I'm like, "That's so sad that I have to be, like, babysat while I'm, like, watching my baby."

Chrissy

That's funny. Yeah, when I work- worked in the trauma unit, we used epidurals. I wanna say the maximum was five days that we would let somebody keep it, 'cause after that it kind of stops being effective. Um, and some of them even have a PCA pump, like an epidural with a... Yours had a PCA? Yeah.

Katie

Yeah, is

Chrissy

But we use them...

Katie

can, like, make it

Chrissy

Yeah.

Katie

whatever? Yeah,

Chrissy

Give yourself an extra dose, yep.

Katie

Mm-hmm.

Chrissy

yeah, we used them a lot for polytraumas. So patients who had multiple traumatic injuries to their lower extremities, they would get an epidural. Um, or if they had a super, super traumatic surgery, like a giant tumor removal or something like that, that was just super painful, um, they would also get an epidural. So we use epidurals actually a lot in the hospital, um, more so than just in labor and delivery. Most people don't realize that, but yeah

Katie

Do you know off the top of your head, because I didn't write it down, the kind of, like, risks or the... Basically, like, w- Okay, I do know off the top of my head that one of the reasons why you might not want to get an epidural is, um, y- it takes time, first off, for it to wear off, and so you have to, like, stay in the hospital longer, and you have to be monitored longer and all that kind of stuff. You also don't get on... Okay, here, from personal experience, while I was, like, pushing, I could not feel my own contractions, which could be a good thing for some women, but also, for me, it was so hard to tell when I was supposed to push because I had no idea when my body was contracting. 'Cause I, you, I went from, like, feeling it and knowing, "Okay, now is the moment to push," to I have no idea what my body's doing, and I literally had, like, eight people around me like, "Okay, now push." And it was just like, "I have no idea. I can't feel it." And it was so weird, and I couldn't feel myself pushing, so I had no idea how hard I was pushing. So it was... You, like, lose that sense of connectedness to your own birth. And so was one of those things that I was kind of bummed about because Malachi got stuck where, like, this is super weird, and maybe for some people too TMI, but we're talking about birth and labor and stuff. But I literally could, like, feel his head at the point where it was supposed to come out. And so it's like I knew, like, I knew that he was, like, almost there because I could just

Chrissy

So

Katie

his head there. But now, all of a sudden, it's like I couldn't that because I couldn't feel anything. And so it was just... you just, like, lose that connectedness

Chrissy

was your

Katie

for some people, again, that's great because they just wanna get the baby out. They don't want to have all the feels of labor. for me, it was kind of one of those, like, "Oh, bummer, I, I don't get to experience this really." I don't know. But I don't know. There's,

Chrissy

question?

Katie

is there's... I know that there are, like, in the crunchy world, like, health-ish risks to the epidural, specifically, I think, for the baby, but maybe for the woman, too. I don't remember

Chrissy

So the biggest one that I've heard is the risk of slowing labor with an epidural because the woman can't feel when her contractions are happening, and so it's harder to tell when you're pushing and how hard you're pushing, which can stall labor a little bit. Also, an epidural makes it incredibly difficult to move, and part of a labor process is moving with your body. Like your body kind of tells you to move when it's time to move, and you're, you kind of miss out on those cues. And so you're kind of... It's like the difference between climb, rock climbing using ergonomics versus rock, rock climbing with brute force. It's like you can still rock climb with brute force. It's just gonna take a lot more effort. Versus rock climbing with ergonomics, you don't have to use so much muscle strength because you're using the positioning of your body versus other body parts in the wall and things like that. So similar thing. When you don't have an epidural, it's like laboring with the ergonomics situation going. Um, you're using that to your advantage. Whereas when you have an epidural in place, you kind of have to rely on that brute force strength to kind of push through the lack of ergonomics, if that makes sense.

Katie

Yeah. definitely. So yeah, I, I do know I've read, and maybe if you listening are curious, you could probably look it up or go find it somewhere in a book. But I have heard that there might be some, like, to the baby, but it's not, like, major risks where, oh, okay, yeah, they're going to develop some major something, delay or dev- uh, disability or something. But just something. Something, I can't remember. when it comes to, like, interventions, another one that you have the choice with, um, is any kind of, like, induction. So a lot of times you, you hear these days that, "Oh, I have a scheduled induction for my, for the birth of my baby," which means that they're going into the hospital to have some sort of medication or s-

Chrissy

is called Pitocin. It is a synthetic oxytocin, which oxytocin is the hormone that starts the labor pathway or the labor cascade. And so it's a synthetic form of that in order to kind of kickstart the labor process.

Katie

So there's that medication. Thank you, Chrissy. Um, there's also things like membrane swiping, basically you would go into the hospital and you'd have, like, a nurse probably come. They'd go, you know, up your vagina and do, like, a little swiping of the membranes, which is supposed to help the, your water to break eventually. They also have a, like, an intervention, um, I don't know the specific name of it, but it's like a balloon where you basically have, like, a balloon put in you and it, like, inflates in order to help, I think, also pop your water, like, to make your water

Chrissy

No, it's, um, pretty much just a Foley catheter that they put. So a Foley catheter has a little balloon on the end. So they put the Foley into the cervix and then expands the balloon, and then the balloon encourages the cervix to start dilating. So none of these are actually designed to, um, pop the water or, like, pop the amniotic sac. They're all designed to stimulate contractions to start.

Katie

Huh.

Chrissy

because once that sac is broten- broken, there is a timer on your booty to get the baby out. Um, but labor can go for a while, honestly, um, as we have seen with you and

Katie

Yes.

Chrissy

members. But, um, yeah, so the membrane sweep is also sometimes separating that amniotic sac from the uterine wall a little bit,

Katie

Mm.

Chrissy

encourages, um, the uterus to start contracting.

Katie

There you go. So these are, like, inductions that can happen obviously in a medical setting, and they're more, uh, almost like an intervention because it's not necessarily a natural way that your body is induced to then go into labor. And so there are some, like, more natural ways that if you are a, a safe place in your pregnancy to give birth, which I think typically it's like any time after, like, 38 weeks maybe is

Chrissy

37.

Katie

37. See, even earlier. So, like, basically after 37, 40 weeks is, is your traditional full term, your, your baby's fully cooked kind of a thing. But babies can even go longer than

Chrissy

Okay, wait, I have a que- I have to ask. I have to ask, how, how big was that

Katie

reason that that happened because, and Chrissy's like bulging her eyes because in most midwife and hospital situations they won't let you go past two weeks. She was doing a home birth and was working with a midwife and doula who were just kind of like, "We want your body to totally go naturally." And as long as there's no me- like, uh, risks for anything else, like there's no other health risks, like they, they would monitor her and stuff. And she a- she had a very perfectly wonderful home birth and just had her baby girl. Her baby is three months old now. And yeah, I know,

Chrissy

baby

Katie

to two weeks, I was like,

Chrissy

when it was born?

Katie

Not huge, but definitely... She was b- she was like biggish, like like f-

Chrissy

Like eight pounds-ish

Katie

is now, she's three months but she's already in like six-month clothing and stuff. And so like she, yeah, is onl- like she was born three months ago but is now in six-month clothing. So yeah. Anyway, I don't remember how much she was when she was born. But she was like bigger than average. Like, I think average is what, like seven pounds or something?

Chrissy

Something like that.

Katie

closer to like nine pounds or something. I don't even remember. But her baby is perfectly healthy and she had a wonderful home birth and she, it

Chrissy

It helps to shimmy the

Katie

situation. It's like this was her first baby and it all fine. Anyway, so natural ways to actually induce yourself, and these are honestly, th- they're, they're, they're things that when you Google it you start to find these things and sometimes they work and sometimes they don't. And so it just kind of depends on your situation. But raspberry leaf tea is one of those ones that basically once I was about, I think I started taking it when I was at like 39 or something weeks, and it's supposed to help your uterus I think get ready to start contracting. And so some people say it's a good way to help naturally induce labor. the one thing that I did a lot of was curb walking, so it's literally just walking on like kind of an uneven area. And so, you know, you think about like if one foot is on a curb and one foot is on the street, so you're kind of walking like lopsided. So you could also do this by just walking a lot of stairs or walking on like very uneven ground. Some people say walking on sand is helpful for that too, depending on where you're located. So that, that just kind of like helps body like move and, and the, for the, uh, like uterus to move I guess or whatever. Do you have

Chrissy

baby down into the pelvis and get it in the proper position.

Katie

There you go. Thank you.

Chrissy

Yeah.

Katie

your baby. So you could also do shimmies if you wanted. There's

Chrissy

I think so, yeah. Like the

Katie

Babies, which sounds so crazy, but if your baby is in, like, the wrong position, there's... You can Google Spinning Babies, and they help you do all sorts of home, remedy kind of stuff. And, and by remedies, I mean, like, like something like a curb walking. So it's not necessarily like a remedy, but it's like a thing you could do, like an exercise I guess is maybe what I'm saying. It's like a home exercise that you can do to help encourage your baby to be in the right position, which is their head down and their face, like they're, they're facing, what, backwards is the way. And so

Chrissy

back, the back, their spine, like towards the front of your belly

Katie

So Malachi was in that position. He was like... Everything was, like, perfect for him. He was set up so well but then got stuck, and it's just like

Chrissy

Sorry, I was looking for something. What?

Katie

helps just to do, like, natural induction. I've also heard castor oil on your belly, but I've also, like, in my midwife, like, here that I have, they say they don't recommend it But then I've also read books that highly recommend it. I don't really know what the general consensus is about it, but I know that it can work really well, but you have to be careful at what stage of pregnancy you're at or something like that. I don't really remember. So maybe ask a medical professional about castor oil. Um, also, Chrissy wrote down intimacy, which is true that helps to engage your body. Like, it, it... I mean, okay, so, like, for example, like, if you have an orgasm, your body, your uterus is contracting when that happens, which is what you want to happen when you're trying to get a baby out, is to have it contract. Um, but it also has to do with maybe, um, your... There's a certain hormone that gets released. Is that right, Chrissy? When... So you wrote down intimacy as a natural induction

Chrissy

Oh, yeah. So,

Katie

that also is released that helps? I can't

Chrissy

it's multiple things. I f- I do think oxytocin is... Yes, oxytocin is released during orgasm, so that is one. The hormone that stimulates the start of labor is released when you orgasm. Secondly, an orgasm physiologically in a female is the contraction of the uterus. Um, if you go back and listen to our female reproductive episode, we can just giggle here for a second of me talking about the uterus go suck, suck, suck to suck up all the semen. Um, the same thing still happens, you know, when you're pregnant. Uh, the uterus will still contract a little bit, and so those little contractions can also stimulate a start of, um, labor

Katie

Yeah. I've, I've heard, like, kind of like wives' tales, like, about how you don't want to have sex during pregnancy because it could stimulate your body going into labor too early, which is definitely a myth. But on the flip side, it does help towards the end of pregnancy to just kinda kickstart it in general. But it wouldn't your body into labor if you were to have sex during pregnancy. So, that's definitely a myth. Your

Chrissy

Like if your body's not ready for it. It's one of those things, like it's a small enough dose of the oxytocin and a small enough little contraction of the uterus that it's not going to throw your body overboard to do something it's not ready for, so

Katie

Yeah, yeah. So if you're wondering if you can have sex while you're pregnant, the answer is yes, and I think it's encouraged. Okay. The, one of the other things I wanted to talk about, um, that was helpful for me, um, is something called hypnobirthing, which is kind of like your mental state, and it sounds kind of like woo woo, and I honestly was kind of like, "Do I really even wanna learn about this?" Because it seemed super weird when I was first getting into it. But when I was Googling about hypnobirthing, which is kind of like a meditative state that you can be in in order to help to reduce the pain in your body that is happening when you are going through labor, and it helps you to kind of overcome it, it, you're in this certain med- med- meditative state, basically. Um, when I was researching about it, I actually stumbled upon this resource, this app and website called Christian Hypnobirthing, and it was really great, and I downloaded the app. I think it was something I paid for as well. And it, they had, like, a course, first off. They had, like, a mini course on hypnobirthing. But then they also had this app that had all of these kind of like meditative Audio tracks that you could listen to that were all based on the Bible and just kind of like encouragement to listen to. And it's one of those things that if you do plan on using hypnobirthing for your labor and delivery, th- it's recommended to start months before you actually give birth so that you are more prepared to be in kind of more of a meditative state, like an actual kind of like meditative trance while you're in labor. So it's not something that you can just decide one day that you're gonna do. You kind of have to work up towards it. And so it's the same thing of like, if you wanna go run a marathon, you don't just wake up one day and be like, "I'm gonna run 26.2 miles." It's like you have to work up towards that. So it's the same thing with like hypnobirthing. You wanna like work up towards being in that meditative state and kind of like a trance while you are giving birth. So if you're interested, there's tons of books on it. I- that was actually one of the thing that I spent a lot of my pregnancy doing, is I read, um, like two different hypnobirthing books. One was called The Headspace Guide to a Mindful Pregnancy, and the other one is called Hypnobirthing: The Morgan Method. And that is like the book about hypnobirthing. I also highly recommend, especially after listening to this podcast, because I have quite a scary birth story, I really, really recommend listening to or reading the book called Ina May's Guide to Childbirth. And she is like the midwife of midwives who has helped, like hundreds of women give birth naturally, without medications, without inductions, without medical interventions, without needing to go to the hospital at all. Um, and she has like her whole guide to it in the beginning, but then the whole, like two-thirds extra, like, left of the book is just positive birth stories. And it was so awesome to hear and listen to because that you hear on, like in movies or from other women or anything like that, is just all these horror stories because everybody loves to like one-up one another with their horror stories, and that was actually one of my least favorite things. There are people that I won't mention, but there were a few people who, uh, to tell me their terrible birth stories, and it bothered me a lot. And Wes was really wonderful whenever things like that would happen. He would be kinda like the gatekeeper and be like, "No, not g- we don't need to hear your birth story and stuff." Because it really gets you into this terrible mind space that, like you only hear the terrible birth stories typically of like- All these women who had these really long labors and then all these crazy things happened, when in reality it's actually more along the lines of, like, people give birth and maybe they had to have an epidural, but everything was fine, and they didn't have to have a C-section, and they didn't have to, uh, you know, have all these medical interventions, blah, blah, blah. again, birth is not an emergency, and there are hundreds of thousands of births that happen all the time that are just totally normal, but you never hear about them because it's not exciting to tell those stories at a party or something. So I highly recommend listening to or reading that book just listening to lots of the good, positive, wonderful birth stories that make birth just so beautiful and magnificent. And honestly, I really enjoyed listening to that book because, for me, when I was going through my pregnancy for the first time, I'm like, I had no idea anything about birth, and this book kinda just laid it straight of, like, what you should expect with your body and all the crazy things that can happen, but, like, how it can be good, like, how it can turn out all right because this is, like, the natural way to kind of handle it. So that's, like, my number one book for, especially for first-time moms, but anybody who's just like, "I just need to hear good stuff about childbirth," this is, like, the book of books to listen to. So Chrissy, get that book. Um, I highly recommend it. Maybe I'll buy it for you

Chrissy

We're just adding it to the list of books that I have to read right now. I think my list is like upwards of 40 or 50 books long.

Katie

Okay, well, make this one a

Chrissy

Not just,

Katie

you're

Chrissy

just birth books. That's just all the books. My husband really loves to read, and every single book he reads... Gosh, I am not reading 40 book- birth books

Katie

No,

Chrissy

I will maybe read like five.

Katie

I

Chrissy

If that.

Katie

On my Goodreads account, I have six here that I read that had to do with pregnancy and birth, and I think only three of them actually had to do more with the birth side of things than pregnancy side of things, so yeah. Anyway, um, we're kinda coming up to the close of our time. We didn't really talk about C-sections or other things like delayed cord clamping, so

Chrissy

part two?

Katie

I was like, "Maybe we'll have to do another episode," because I'm like, I even feel like I was talking really fast with some of these things, so we'll, we'll consider it. So, uh,

Chrissy

also talk about, um, stem cell banking. I just thought about that.

Katie

be interesting. Yes.

Chrissy

Yeah.

Katie

let's... Okay, stay tuned. We'll have...

Chrissy

Part two!

Katie

who are like, "Okay, I'm so over all this, like, birth stuff," in there. We'll get back to other stuff, but this, these- These top conversations are very important. So thanks for sticking with us, and hopefully you've found them at least entertaining maybe. Um, but we will eventually get back to non-birth and pregnancy related things soon. But

Chrissy

Yes,

Katie

Chrissy, why don't you take us out now?

Chrissy

With that, remember, whether you eat or drink or whatever do you do, do it all for the glory of God. We'll see you next time. Thanks for listening to Crunchy Stewardship.