BONUS EPI: Lilith And The Power of No

We link Lilith’s mythology to the lived reality of neurodivergent women and sexual trauma survivors whose needs get labeled as defiance. We show how reclaiming your no starts in the nervous system and becomes a practical path to boundaries, consent, and real healing.

• Lilith’s origin story as a metaphor for autonomy and equality
• demonization of women’s refusal and the “you can’t win” double bind
• unmasking as an implicit refusal to perform neurotypical comfort
• pathological demand avoidance as protection not a disorder

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Transcript

Welcome And Why Lilith

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Howdy, howdy. Welcome back to the Awaken Heart, a podcast for healing women. I'm Autumn Ran, licensed professional counselor, yoga instructor, life coach, neurodivergent, trauma experience woman, and ultimately your host for today on this podcast episode. This is the bonus episode that pairs with this week's main episode that came out on Wednesday about unmasking. So today I'm gonna do a little different, go into some mythology, archetypes, into the story of Lilith, the woman who refused to perform before refusing to perform had a name. If you've never explored mythology or archetypes, if this feels unfamiliar or even a little strange, welcome. I'm learning right alongside you. You don't have to believe in anything specific to find meaning in her story. But I want to tell you something before we start, my neurodivergent friends. Lilith's story is your story in a way that is almost too specific to be a coincidence. Because Lilith was demonized for being exactly who she was, for refusing to perform, for saying no to demands that violated her sense of self, for existing in ways that made people around her uncomfortable, for being too much, too loud, too intense, too unwilling to comply. Does that sound familiar at all? I'm under the impression that every neurodivergent woman has been called difficult, defiant, oppositional, too sensitive, too much, too intense. We carry Lilith's legacy. Every woman whose natural way of being was called a disorder, a problem, something to fix. She is Lilith. And every trauma survivor who couldn't say no when she needed to, whose no was ignored, overridden, she is Lilith too. So let's talk about Lilith, right?

Lilith’s Origin And Demonization

SPEAKER_00 2:29

The origin story. She appears in ancient mythology, in Hebrew traditions. But the story most people know comes from the Jewish mythology, Jewish mythology, specifically from texts written alongside and after the Bible. So it's like basically to sum it up, there in the book of Genesis, there's two mentions of creation. At first, the first mention was where man and woman were created equally, and then where the one that we all know, where woman was made from a rib of Adam. And what that is saying really is that Lilith was the first wife of Adam, where they were created equally out of the earth's dust. And story goes, Adam demanded that he be on top, literally, physically, metaphorically, in all ways as the man, even during sex. And she said, No, we're equal. We could be equals. And essentially, there's a kerfuffle, and she gets so angry, she screams a name and basically flies away. God sends down these angels and they find her in the Red Sea hanging around with demons. And God says, Okay, no harm, no foul. You can come back. She's like, No, I'm good here.

SPEAKER_01 4:14

And then comes the demonization, the villainization. So Adam complained to God. Lilith left.

SPEAKER_00 4:33

And she was punished for not for doing harm. No, but she was punished for doing perceived harm. Claiming equality, refusing to be beneath someone who demanded it, saying no, leaving rather than submitting, and existing on her own terms. There's literally no harm in any of that, but that's what they said she did harmful.

SPEAKER_01 5:01

After Lilith left, Eve was created from the rib.

SPEAKER_00 5:08

From him, not equal, made to be with him, for him, from him. And what happened to Eve? She was blamed for the fall, punished for curiosity, two women, two choices, both punished. Lilith punished for refusing, Eve punished for existing. So the message sent is if you refuse, you're a demon. If you comply, you're still punished. You can't win. So you might as well fucking refuse. When I listen to the story about it, especially in like the King James Bible context, it's just very patriarchal and it's also almost nonsensical. It almost sometimes feels like this character Lilith was made up to put fear into women so that we don't say no, so that we don't stand out from the crowd, so that we submit to the man. It's really garbage shit to me. You know what I mean? Like, if this Lilith character is a real character, was a real person, like would you blame her? Like, do you would you want to go back to a god that doesn't allow you autonomy, that doesn't allow you equality, that's making up rules that make one person better or more important than the other? Like, it's kind of wild shit. But she was called a demon for being exactly who she was, for being a strong, independent being. And we as neurodivergent women have been called difficult, defiant, sensitive, intense, something to be managed or fixed. It's not that you were called a demon outright, but you might have been treated like one.

Neurodivergence As Refusal To Perform

SPEAKER_00 7:28

Lilith's refusal was explicit. She said no out loud.

SPEAKER_01 7:37

But we tend to refuse implicitly just by existing authentically.

SPEAKER_00 7:47

Maybe you stem in public, so refusal to perform stillness. Maybe you say what you mean directly, refusing to perform social subtext. Maybe you need things explained clearly. Refusal to pretend to understand when you don't. Maybe you just have allow yourself to have big emotions. So no longer performing moderation. You need routine and predictability. That's a refusal to perform flexibility or being available all the time on demand. And you use your specific sensory sensory needs. So refusal to perform comfort you don't feel. These aren't choices. They're your neurology, but they were treated as defiance or can still sometimes be treated as defiance, depending on who's around you. And for many of us that are neurodivergent, we experience pathological demand avoidance, PDA. Lilith is your nervous system personified. So PDA means your nervous system experiences demands, even simple, reasonable ones as threats. And it refuses. Not because you're choosing defiance, because your nervous system is protecting you. So, like, even if you tell yourself to do something, it may be too much of a demand. You'd be like, no, fuck that. I'm not doing that. Your body says no before your brain even has a chance to think about it. That automatic, protective, survival-based refusal has been pathologized, punished, called oppositional, called a disorder. But Lilith's refusal was also called pathological, called demonic. It was fucking called wrong. Your nervous system's refusal is not a disorder, it's protection. When you hit sensory overload and meltdown, that's your body saying, This is too much. I cannot do this. No. When you shut down, go quiet, go still, go unreachable, that's your body saying, I need to leave this even if I can't physically leave. And these responses have been punished. You've been told to control them, suppress them, perform regulation you don't have access to. Your body has always known that this is too much. I will not comply with this. No thanks.

PDA And The Protective Nervous System

SPEAKER_00 10:44

So let's connect Lilith to the trauma piece, right? Because for many of us, Lilith's story can live in our body in a very specific way. In sexual trauma, our no is overridden. Your body said no through freeze, through dissociation, through shutting down, and it was ignored, overridden, overridden, or punished. The most fundamental refusal a person can make, which is no to the violation of your own body, was taken from you. That's Lilith's story in the most devastating form. The no that should have been honored and wasn't. Your freeze response, the shutdown, the going still, the going somewhere else in your mind is both a trauma response and a neurodivergent response. Your nervous system was already wired to protect you this way, and trauma deepened that wiring. Understanding this matters because it means your freeze wasn't weakness. It wasn't compliance. It was your nervous system doing everything it knew how to do to keep you safe. It was Lilith doing what she had to do to survive, even when flying away wasn't possible. You couldn't say no. Maybe you were too young, too scared, too frozen, too conditioned to the compliance, too neurodivergent in ways that made the no harder to access. But the no was always there inside you, real and valid and absolutely yours. Reclaiming your no now is honoring the no that was always there, even when you couldn't say it. Because you can't fully heal from sexual trauma without reclaiming your no. And I don't mean this just intellectually, but in your body, in your nervous system, in your bones. The work of reclaiming your no is the work of becoming Lilith, growing wings, refusing, and flying. So what do we actually do with all this? First up, understand what no is for you. It's your nervous system's signal that something is wrong. It's your body's wisdom before your brain catches up. It's the refusal your trauma tried to take from you. It's your neurodivergent self-protection. No is a complete sentence. No is your birthright. Saying no is not selfish, nor is it defiant, nor is it too much, and not something that requires justification or explanation. No, period. That's it. Don't need to explain it. Don't need to be understood. So first start with your body's no. Before you can say no with your words, I'd like you to connect with your body's no, because your body already knows and it sends signals to you. Tension, tightening, constriction, jaws clenching, shoulders going up in the ears, tightness in the belly, tightness in the chest, that's a no. Nausea, stomach dropping, feel like butterflies are flipping, all that in the stomach, that's a no. The urge to pull away, to leave, to go. That's that's still a no. Sensory overwhelm increasing. So if things, the shirts, clothes are starting to bother you, lights are starting to bother you, sounds are starting to bother you, that's a no. These are not overreactions. These are your body's lilith, your first refusal before words. When someone makes a request, I would like for you to pause, put your hand on your chest or your belly, and ask your body what does it say? Yes or no? Learn to read it before you answer. Is it a full body yes or is it a full body no? And if it's somewhere in between, your response is let me get back to you. Not a definite answer. If it's not a full body yes, if it's not a full body no, then you need time to process this and think about it. Let me get back to you. Give me 24 hours. The nervous system communicates in ways that aren't always verbal. Like I said before, the sensory overload. Maybe you've experiencing executive dysfunction, not being able to organize, plan, start a task, change a task. I don't know if I said organize, manage time. So if your executive functioning starts to dysfunction, that's a no to more demands. When you feel like you're approaching shutdown, like you're getting there, and it's just like one more step, and I'm getting in that bed, one more step, and I'm on that couch, one more step, and I'm on the floor. That's a no to more social energy. When you're in meltdown mode, throwing a fit, losing your shit, that's a no to everything. Take it all away. Find some solo time. Get in a relaxing position. Honor these. They're not failures, they're information. And as always, I want you to start small, small verbal nodes. You don't have to start with the big ones. Say, no, I need quiet right now. No, that environment is too overwhelming for me. No, I need more time. No, I need that in writing. No, I can't do that today. Small nos build the muscle. The bigger ones become possible, the more the small nose build up. And please, please, I know that as a neurodivergent trauma-experienced woman, you may have experienced a lot of misunderstanding, a lot of needing to feel like you need to overexplain so that people understand. And I want you to drop the justification. I want you to embrace the fact, the idea, the way of life that you may be misunderstood. And that is okay. People that love you will ask questions, will work to understand. And if they still can't understand, they'll still be there to love and support. People that are not going to do that are not going to do that. So, like, chuck them in the fucking bucket, fuck it bucket. Like, that's just data to know that if people can't accept you how you are, if they need you to explain everything ag nauseum and give justifications for things, they're not your people. They're there for the performance. You don't have to explain your no. You don't have to explain sensory overload. You don't have to justify needing accommodations, and you don't have to defend your nervous system limits. Practice saying, No, that doesn't work for me. No, I'm not available, or simply just no, without the long explanation, without the apology, without performing flexibility you don't have. And with this, I want you to expect pushback. When we start to say no, when we start to stop the performance and people pleasing and fawning, when we say no to sensory demands, to masking, to performing neurotypically, the pushback is often intense.

SPEAKER_01 19:57

Prepare for you're being difficult.

SPEAKER_00 20:00

Everyone else can handle this. Stop being so sensitive. You're overreacting. How do I hold you? Your response? My needs are valid. My answer is no. Repeat it calmly. Be certain.

SPEAKER_01 20:22

Unmoving, like Lilith. And grieve the nose your trauma took from you.

SPEAKER_00 20:36

Grieve the nose that you've not been able to access prior to maybe late diagnosis. Grieve the nose you didn't give when you meant no because you were too scared, too conditioned, too frozen. Write them, say them out loud to an empty room, say them to yourself in a mirror. No, I didn't want that. No, that wasn't okay. Nope, they didn't have the right to do what they did. Say the no's you couldn't say. And when you're about to say no, and the fear rushes in, the fear of being

Trauma, Freeze, And Reclaiming No

SPEAKER_00 21:24

called difficult, defiant, too much, a demon. Remember Lilith. She was called a demon for saying no. They demonized her whole self, who she was, her boundary holding self. So she grew wings and flew away. You can too. So your no lives in your body. The freeze response, the compliance, the performance, all stored in your nervous system. Somatic therapy helps you. Release stored trauma from your body. It helps you connect with your body's signals. And it helps you practice feeling no in your body before saying it out loud. This is especially important for us neurodivergent women whose nervous systems communicate through body sensations, not just words. This goes back to the recommendation of when you're asked for a request, take a beat, put your hand on your belly or your heart, and ask, what does my body say? A yes will feel expansive, open, and warm. A no will feel contracting, tight, like you want to pull away. The thing I will say about breath work: there are many modalities, methods of breathing, counting, thinking about counting. But the simplest thing I can recommend when you're trying to access breath in a heightened moment is to make the exhale longer than the inhale. The long exhale is what regulates the nervous system. So if you're into counting, if you're into paying attention, say you breathe in for three or four seconds, exhale out for five to eight seconds. So it would be something like that. Or just simply breathe in and make sure the exhale is longer than the inhale. Before a conversation where you need to hold a boundary, take five deep breaths with extended exhales. It activates calm and clarity. And your no needs a voice, like literally needs a voice. If you've been silenced by sexual trauma by being shut down, by being told you're too much, you need to claim your actual voice. Some things you can do is hum, just hum. Feel the vibration in your chest and throat. This activates your vagus nerve and helps regulate your nervous system. Hum a song, hum your favorite song. Sing even badly, even alone. Like I am a rock star in my car when I'm driving solo. I am like the best rock star. Taylor Swift, look out. I don't think she's a rock star, but you know what I mean. I'm better. A rock star in my car. JK, say no out loud to yourself in a mirror. Notice how it feels in your body. What comes up. And gradually increase your volume. Whisper no, say no, shout no. Notice where in your body you feel the resistance for saying it louder. And if you've been suppressing your stems, allow yourself to stem. That is an act of reclaiming your no. You're saying no to the demand that your body be still. No to the man to the demand that you perform being neurotypical. No to the shame about how your nervous system works. Get some fidgets. Get some seeding things that you can rock or spin with. Get a mini trampoline so that you can bounce. Let

Somatic Tools To Say No

SPEAKER_00 26:02

your body move how it needs to move. Get a shake plate. Get what you need to get the sensoriness done, the the stinning out. The child version of you learn that no wasn't safe. Your meltdowns, your shutdowns, your refusals maybe led to punishment, rejection, or shame. And your inner child needs to know it's safe now. Your no was always valid, your nervous system was always right. I'll protect you. You need to say these things to your inner child. Think about where it all went awry, that hurt version of yourself. At whatever age that inner child is, let them know that they were always okay, they were always right, and that you will protect them. Try to write a letter to your younger self. Tell her her no was valid, her nervous system was trying to protect her. She was not defiant. No one had the right to override her no. And she's safe to say no now. Here's some journaling prompts. Feel free to get out a notebook, notepad, whatever you need to write down some of these journeying journaling prompts. Or I'll try to, I'm gonna try to leave some space in between them so you can think about it. But take some time to journal. Take some time to think about this. And if writing doesn't work for you, then open up the voice recorder on your phone and record yourself. Do an audio, a verbal journal. First up, what was the first time I was punished for saying no?

SPEAKER_01 27:57

What no's do I need to say that I've been holding in? What does my body do when it's saying no? What are my signals?

SPEAKER_00 28:23

What would Lilith say in my situation?

SPEAKER_01 28:30

What wings do I have that I haven't used yet?

SPEAKER_00 28:44

So this is part one of bonus episode with Lilith. Next week's episode, main episode is going to be about boundaries. I messed that up, about boundaries. And from there, next week's bonus episode will be part two of diving a little bit more into Lilith. I did a brief overview about our story and then kind of went into how to uh show up for yourself and get your nose, take your nose back. So we'll talk about the demonization, the cost of boundaries, the price of autonomy, and how to survive being cast out for refusing to perform, especially as a neurodivergent trauma-experience woman whose refusal has always been called a disorder. So that's Lilith, right? The first refusal, the woman who said no and grew wings, the woman who spotted patriarchal bullshit and said, nah, bro, that's not how we're doing it. I appreciate it. I've got some beef with the story. I it's problematic in its origination, but I like the message because like she was demonized, right? So like the the mythology goes that she has like a hundred babies a day. Boys are hers for the first six or first six days, and then the boy gets circumcised, so is then given over to God. And then like girls are under her, like she has power over newborn girls for like the first eight days, but I haven't read what happens after that, or how the female girl is cleansed to be saved from Lilith. Sometimes when I have spoken about Lilith in the past or brought it up or been curious and dabbled, I've had feedback that it's demonic, that she's bad, that it's all about killing babies. And it's just like, I don't, I don't know. I see a woman who was in the Garden of Eden, right? Was in paradise, but the rules, it was inequal. It was not just. There was no justice. It was like someone else ruling someone else because of their gender. And that's silly when we can all live happily together in equality and take turns being on top, so to speak, right? So, like she fled because he was fighting her in the bedroom to be on top. And like, no, bro, that's I don't consent. So she grew wings and flew away to the middle of the sea, and in the middle of the sea, she finds demons. They haven't hurt her, they haven't made her do anything horrible. But that's who she's stuck with, and then gets this story about how she kills babies. Like I said, I'm learning about it. It's very problematic, but I appreciate the story of her no. I appreciate her origin of her no. Like, consensual obligatory sex is not consensual sex. And if you're gonna come at someone that you have power over them because of your gender, your genitalia, like, no, that's not okay. I'd rather be in the middle of the sea surrounded by demons than being essentially raped by my partner in paradise. So I don't see her as a demon. Again, I've got to get into it. Maybe she does eat babies. I don't know. I'm learning. But from what I've gathered so far and what I've been reading, like maybe she's not so bad. Maybe all that demonization is just because she didn't follow the rules that weren't good rules in the first place. Her story is your story, not just as a trauma survivor, not just as a woman, but as a neurodivergent, trauma-experienced woman whose very existence, whose natural way of being, has been called disordered, defiant, dare I say, demonic, too much. They demonize Lilith for refusing to perform. Just like with neurodivergence, with trauma experience people, we can get pathologized for our needs, our meltdowns, our shutdowns, our intensity, our no's. Same story, different time, different words for demon. But you are not a demon, you are not a disorder, you are not too much. You are Lilith, made from the same earth as everyone else, equal, whole, valid, and you have wings. Claim your no. Start in your body, notice what your nervous system is already telling you. Start small, start with your sims, your voice, your breath. Just start somewhere. Because every no you say is a refusal, an act of Lilith, an honoring of your trauma experience, your trauma healing. And eventually you'll grow wings too. And you can fly away when all the bullshit. Just no, no, no, no, no, no. Fly away with the no's. All right, my dears. Thanks for the here in this bonus episode. I hope you enjoyed it. If you've got some tidbits of Lilith, if you want to share your insights, we are learning together. Please leave in the comments some good tidbits, some good information or what you feel about it. I really like to have this conversation because uh I think mythology, archetypes, goddesses, I think they're all really fun and just very metaphorical things to use. Um, and I want to bring them more into the bonus episode. So please share what you know, share what you got. I'd really love to hear it. If you do enjoy this series, if you are enjoying this season two of healing after sexual trauma, please share it. Please talk about it. Please keep it on the mouths of people that need to hear the healing that would benefit from the healing. I don't use marketing, I don't use social media. So it's all word of mouth. So like a button, thumbs up something, give me a comment to get me on the algorithms of women like us, women that want to heal for real, not fake, not toxic positivity, but real deep healing. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you for listening. Thank you for sharing. Thank you for your energy and support. I am forever grateful. Until next time, take the gentlest possible care of your awakened heart and practice your no today, just once, just one small no, said with your whole neurodivergent trauma experience, healing Lilith self. It's the first refusal, and it changes everything. Take care of you, and I'll see you soon.