iCIMS Hacks: Reducing Ghosting and Cleaning Your Data (7/11/25)

Learn iCIMS tips from top admins: reduce ghosting with simple gestures and texting, train candidates on professional communication, clean up your source data, and know when to rebuild iForms. Hear real strategies to improve your workflows and candidate experience.

https://systemadmininsights.com/

Transcript

Alex: Friday. Happy Friday. Welcome, everybody, to System Admin Insights. It's so great to see you here. As always, we like to get started with a little bit of gratitude.
 Alex: Please drop something in chat that you are grateful for today. I will say that, uhm, I am grateful for Amanda Trammell.
 Alex: Amanda Trammell. We had a great conversation earlier today. Thank you so much for your insights. And welcome to the call today.
 Alex: What do we got in chat here? New Florence and the machine is possibly on the horizon. After a minute, I didn't realize Florence and the machine was still at it.
 Alex: That's awesome. That's good to know. Molly says Chilaquile. And good salsa. Indeed. Patrick said grateful this July weather is not typical July weather in Arkansas.
 Alex: Yeah, I hear that. Long weekend and a concert at the Greek on Sunday. What's the Greek, Rachel?
 Rachel.Savitt: The Greek theater in Los Angeles. Get him to the Greek.
 Alex: Okay,
 Rachel.Savitt: going to see Alison Krauss.
 Alex: Oh, that is very exciting. I love Alison Krauss. I love bluegrass. She's amazing. That's great.
 Rachel.Savitt: It's my fifth time seeing her with my best friend, so it's kind of a tradition. And the guy that's opening for her, Willie Watson, somebody I grew up with, co-wrote a bunch of his songs, so it's kind of exciting.
 Rachel.Savitt: It's exciting to
 Alex: see.
 Rachel.Savitt: That
 Alex: come Are you a Chris Steele fan at all?
 Rachel.Savitt: I'm, I'm, I like Bluegrass, I like Alison Krauss. My country music is like 90s country. That I grew up on.
 Rachel.Savitt: I, otherwise get me with 90s hip-hop and R&B and that's kind of my day-to-day.
 Alex: Got it. Got it. Excellent. Thanks for sharing that. All right. So, uh, some reminders. We are recording this session and we'll post the recording to Circle, YouTube, and Spotify.
 Alex: The transcript is in incorporated into the chat bot to enrich its responses. So you can go into SAI and you can chat with that chat bot and it's going to look at everything that's been posted and all the transcripts of these calls.
 Alex: It's a great way to get quick answers to your questions. Next, please. And today we're going to talk about, we're talking about ghosting.
 Alex: We had a really interesting conversation about ghosting the other day. Then we're going to go to members' questions, then we're going to go to general questions, We also like to record a What We Learned Spotlight that we put on LinkedIn just to share with the world some of the cool nuggets that come
 Alex: up here on these calls. And with that, I'll go ahead and share my screen. All right. Well, the first thing, speaking of passwords, what I was alluding to, if you didn't see this story, this is, this is like sort of on the, uh, level of the Workday story that broke recently.
 Alex: And this is, uh, this is really, really, really, really problematic. Basic security flaws left the personal info of tens of millions of McDonald's job seekers vulnerable on the McHire site built by AI software firm Paradox.
 Alex: And I really, I like Wired as a news source for some of these things because they go into more technical detail in, uh, in a way that I think is super interesting to our profession.
 Alex: So I encourage you to check out that article. I put it in the general discussion area too. It's big news.
 Alex: But what I want to talk about today is candidate ghosting. So we have all experienced candidate ghosting. Um, it is, where are my polls?
 Alex: Here we go. Um, you know, I remember there was a, there was a point in my development where I just decided to not take it personally.
 Alex: Um, but one thing that was really interesting is that somebody on a call recently mentioned that she had stats around ghosting, what percentage of candidates were ghosting, at what point in the pipeline, and she was using that as a baseline to do, you know, to candidate experience enhancements and to
 Alex: assess the impact of those enhancements. Before we continue the conversation, I want to run a couple of poll questions by you.
 Alex: So the first one is, where are you seeing the most candidate ghosting in your hiring process right now? At the application?
 Alex: At the interview stage? At the offer stage? Or day one no shows? And by the way, day one no shows are starting to become more and more of a thing.
 Alex: Super troubling. It's a lot of application stage to be expected. A fair degree of interview stage. And offer stage. Great.
 Alex: Give it five more seconds. Three, two, one. Okay. And that poll, I'm going to share the results. Uh, Caitlin, would you screenshot that, by the way, the results that you see, and just drop it in our Slack channel for Friday calls.
 Alex: Alright, so we do see some offers. The presentation interview stage is a significant place where ghosting is happening. Very, very interesting.
 Alex: Okay, let's do another one. We've got, All right, number two. What do you think is the biggest reason candidates ghost?
 Alex: Slow or clunky hiring processes, poor communication from the, employer, better offer, elsewhere, or avoiding an awkward conversation. Very interesting.
 Alex: A lot of better off- So one thing that we found in the research that we did that avoiding an awkward conversation is actually really, really going up in terms of like what that reason is for candidates ghosting.
 Alex: It's just a, and I mean, with all the awkward conversations we have to have all day long. It's not surprising.
 Alex: Alright, let me end that, share the results. Mostly folks are saying better off or elsewhere. Great. Okay, we've got two more.
 Alex: Alright. Next one. How long? What do you think a candidate is willing to wait before ghosting if they don't hear back after applying?
 Alex: Less than 24 hours, one to two days, three to five days, a week or more. Interesting. So we're gonna get five more seconds, four, three, uhh, hmmm.
 Alex: Two, one. So we think, generally, that they're willing to wait a week or more, but it won't surprise you to hear that the.
 Alex: Trend is getting, uh, shorter and shorter, right, because candidates are expecting higher touch experiences and there's applying for a lot of things out there and those employers that are getting higher touch experiences and more responsive.
 Alex: Feedback are getting an edge. And we've got one last one. I'm trying to. Okay.
 Alex: Alright. Which roles are experiencing the most can- the ghosting in your organization right now? Frontline or customer facing? Skilled, technical, or specialist roles?
 Alex: Administrative or back office roles? Manage your- Not surprisingly frontline or customer facing roles are in the lead.
 Alex: You have five more seconds. 8. Great. Well, one surprise from the results is that there's an increase in managerial role ghosting.
 Alex: As well. It's definitely a trend in that direction. Okay. I'm going to share. So I encourage you to read this article on our blog.
 Alex: This was, we did this specific for healthcare because we were doing a healthcare event. But I think the conclusions here are applicable across many industries.
 Alex: And a couple of key things that we saw in those stats. And again, really like having a baseline for this, because otherwise we're just kind of guessing.
 Alex: So 45% of job seekers ghost during the interview process up from 16% the year before. That is a really, really big deal.
 Alex: And. 19% of employers report new hire, no shows on day one, even after signed offers. Right? Day one ghosting is now real risk, even for candidates who have formally accepted the job.
 Alex: And I know that for me, uh, and I guess it's generational. It's unthinkable. It's me. Right? That that could possibly happen.
 Alex: And yet it does happen. So I'm curious to hear from folks, what are you noticing and what are you doing to address ghosting at your organization?
 Molly Donovan: So I'll, I'll jump in, umm.
 Molly Donovan: This is Molly. I actually teach graduate students at FSU, uh, and coach them on their job search strategy and how to approach this from the candidate standpoint.
 Molly Donovan: So, um, since I haven't been on a recruiting team for a year, I. You know, it's been a year now that I left my last recruiting gig, so I don't know from a company standpoint, but when we talk about ghosting, um, with my 200 students, uh, I, I encourage them to never be.
 Molly Donovan: The ghoster, even though they might be ghosted and working really hard on giving them insight behind the curtain of, like, recruiters are overwhelmed.
 Molly Donovan: They might often open up their laptop, uh, in the morning and have thousands of applicants to screen. And so it can't always be super high touch, super personalized, and they can't take that personally, but they also need to make sure that they're not ghosting.
 Molly Donovan: Um, they're recruiters, they're hiring managers, anyone, they're coming into contact. So that they are making a better impression. So now that's only a tiny, tiny sliver, but, uhm, it is, you know, since I do have access to job seekers, um, we're trying to end.
 Molly Donovan: The whole of the, the, so I'm at the college of business at Florida State. The whole of the college has a really hard line in, in teaching any students.
 Molly Donovan: Even so far as to say, once you accept an offer, you keep that offer. Like, you don't keep shopping around kind of thing.
 Molly Donovan: Mm-hmm. We are trying to ingrain that integrity into our students, for sure.
 Alex: Yeah. Yeah, that's a great point. And knowing the trends makes it easy to stick out as a candidate with integrity.
 Alex: You know, Townsend, you shared something, uh, in chat there. You said out of 261 applications that you've filled out this year.
 Alex: You've been ghosted on more than half of them, not even an automated response. That is, that is, that is wild.
 Alex: That is really, really wild because as we all know, it's, it's not too difficult to set up systems in, uh, in your ETS to make sure that everybody gets some kind of response and then a 50% no response rate.
 Alex: Actually, it really, really shocks me. Greg, you brought up a point about companies ghosting candidates. You want to say more about that?
 Greg Mendez: Yeah, I, I find, and again, I, let me just say upfront, I, it is inexcusable for anyone to ghost. post.
 Greg Mendez: Uh, a hiring manager or recruiter for an interview, uh, for day, especially day one because of all the work that's required.
 Greg Mendez: And then it also impacts all the candidates. So I, I'm just gonna say that upfront. It's interesting that we started noticing during the pandemic.
 Greg Mendez: A lot of the go, you know, the ghosting occurring. Um, what I, what I thought was also interesting was companies were getting a little taste of that when candidates were ghosting them and they got really upset.
 Greg Mendez: And I said, you know, this is wrong. It's, I'm, I'm with my, I used to do ice in the life, I used to be in career services.
 Greg Mendez: And we used to tell people, we used to train people to say, when you, when you're, when you're actually, um, accepting an offer, it's like getting engaged.
 Greg Mendez: And if you get- it engage, people do break engagements. It happens. It's life. Uh, if you're gonna break the engagement, though, it better be worth it because you're gonna get caught.
 Greg Mendez: And people are gonna talk, right? The people do so, and you never know where we're- You don't
 Alex: recruit or we'll
 Greg Mendez: land. But, when it comes to- I've noticed that when I say, well, what about when candidates are ghosted by companies?
 Greg Mendez: And they never hear back. Um, for some reason- that seems to be acceptable. And I- and I- I'll challenge this.
 Greg Mendez: While it's not an acceptable behavior to do any ghosting. You've got a combination of a general- a younger generation who hasn't really developed as much- the social skills to have us awkward conversations.
 Greg Mendez: And then you've also got a generation that was just taught during the pandemic that it's okay to ghost your candidate.
 Greg Mendez: So if it's a go- okay, if it's okay for the company to ghost me, why can't I turn around and ghost them?
 Greg Mendez: They seem to seem to be on a practical level, allowing that. So I, it's, I'm not saying it's right, but what I am saying is I think if we want candidates to start doing less ghosting, you're not gonna get off.
 Greg Mendez: I think we're going to have to stop ghosting them. Even if that means doing the, actually having the awkward conversation saying, no, you're not the best candidate.
 Greg Mendez: Let me give you some closure. Let you let you move on. And then move on, just, you know, rip that bandaid.
 Greg Mendez: Something that's the best thing to do. Easier shit than done, and I know internal policies allow, sometimes allow us, and NYU.
 Greg Mendez: We have a lot of areas of our guilty of doing that, not responding as quickly as we should, and I get on.
 Greg Mendez: I can't date. I get it on a recruiters of that. Uh, but that's a big thing. So I'm gonna get off my soapbox for a moment, and I'm gonna be able to speak.
 Alex: Yeah, thank you for that, Greg. Paul, I want to, uh, call out your comment there. Because I think. I think that can be read two ways.
 Alex: I think some people might come to the conclusion, well, that's entitlement. I personally, however, think that it represents a shift in market dynamics.
 Alex: What are your thoughts on that? And give a little summary of what you wrote there.
 Paul Day: Uh, yeah, um, I've always been this type of person that I'm always all for the people, right? So, um, I, like, I see this and I see what Greg is saying, where, like, we would have to, start, hmm, not ghosting people for the culture to shift, but what I mean is on the other end, right, on the, on the
 Paul Day: candidates end. Um, and what, at this point, with the stories that we hear about how much goes, I mean, that sounds like just the whole culture shift that would happen, have to happen across all of America over, like, a certain amount of years, right, to fix what has already been broken.
 Paul Day: And now with, like, this AI stuff coming up, right, and companies experimenting with that. And I think it's just going to introduce, I don't know, either better things or, you know, fix that.
 Paul Day: So maybe we are heading in, in the right direction. But, um, at the end of the day, I think, I think people are just more selective these days.
 Paul Day: And, um, and people are exposed to a lot of, like, uh, like self-worth. You know, it's like, it's like, empower yourself and this and that.
 Paul Day: And so, I think the general public is becoming just more confident in themselves through all these other social aspects. Umm, in our day-to-day lives.
 Paul Day: I don't know if that makes any sense. I, it's a little, little deep. Umm, but yeah, I just think all this stuff is grounded in a, like, it's a deep conversation, like on the candidate's side, because everybody, Right, lives their own lives.
 Paul Day: Everybody's brought up differently. Everybody has different ideas of what is right, in a sense, you know? Umm, and, you know, they're, Yeah, I mean, I guess I'm not trying to make excuses for- people.
 Paul Day: I'm just like, kind of like, and understanding all spectrums and kind of the psychology behind it as well, you know?
 Alex: Yeah, I like to think of it in terms of, um, not assigning any kind of malicious intent. But instead, this is the result of natural feelings in human responses to a situation, right?
 Alex: It's not to, not to say that folks shouldn't be trained to, uh, behave in certain ways if they want. I want to stand out from the crowd,
 Paul Day: but,
 Alex: yeah, people, people, people are overwhelmed looking for a job is awful. It's a horrible, horrible experience. I've never heard somebody say a relish looking for a job, right?
 Alex: Um, Cheryl, I wanted to- to, uh, call out your comment there. You said- you set up, uh, event notifications when recruiter reviews the resume, moves them into the reviewed status.
 Alex: And I think a lot of folks think about- they kind of- they think about that initial e-mail that you get automatically when you- they don't necessarily think about additional automated, um, communications throughout the workflow.
 Alex: Sherry, you want to talk a little bit more about that?
 Cheryl Callaway: Yeah, yeah, so, Sheryl. Okay. I'm and tell away with Pencil Financial Group. Um, yeah, no, what we did, what I found out about that, I thought, you know, that is actually a really great touch point because it's, you know, it lets the candidate know that you've actually touched their resume.
 Cheryl Callaway: You actually looked at it while at least I'm hoping that they assume that they're not simply just making it. Um, because we know candidates nowadays do that.
 Cheryl Callaway: You know, they just assume that everything's AI. So, but you know, we even thought of. About updating that that, hey, this is a real human who actually reviewed your resume.
 Cheryl Callaway: Um, we thought about adding some sort of comment in there so that people realize, like, no, you are not being reviewed by AI.
 Cheryl Callaway: You are not being rejected by AI. Um. And so, the thing I really liked about it was just the fact that you got something.
 Cheryl Callaway: Even if it was, you know, let's just say it took them a week to review you or two weeks to review you.
 Cheryl Callaway: At least you got something. But now you're waiting for, ooh. Oh, great. Am I going to move on to an interview status?
 Cheryl Callaway: Umm. And, you know, although it still kind of gives them that, ooh, no, I'm still waiting again. But at least that time, to me, it's like that clock resets.
 Cheryl Callaway: Like, they're, they're willing to, to wait x amount of days before they're just like, ask for a white type of thing.
 Cheryl Callaway: But, you know, every time you reach out to them or have a touch point with them, the clock resets. So,
 Alex: that's kind of
 Cheryl Callaway: what they've had it. And I thought, uh, it was really nice. Uh, I don't know if all of our recruiters realized that there was a time frame in there.
 Cheryl Callaway: So we've been pointing that out heavily to them because our initiatives for this year is candidate experience.
 Alex: So we're making sure that, you know,
 Cheryl Callaway: Your recruiters, if you send that email, you've got two weeks to decide what you want to do with them. Don't leave them sitting in that review bin for the next month, right?
 Cheryl Callaway: So
 Alex: let's
 Cheryl Callaway: put them in there. Do something with
 Alex: them. Great. Thank you. Patrick said, uh, his team, his team is shifting strategy where they've learned that a phone call doesn't work anymore and that text engagement is how they avoid ghosting.
 Alex: And Molly mentioned that she was a big fan of text engagement as well. Patrick, do you want to say anything more?
 Alex: How about that?
 Patrick Crumby IW: Our recruiters, you know, uh, our industry deals with a lot of high tech and, uh, cub con. And what they have discovered is that, you know, phone calls just aren't cutting it no more.
 Patrick Crumby IW: And that the tech's engagement, they're a lot more responsive because, you know, we're seeing that shift in, uh, a population where, you know, a phone.
 Patrick Crumby IW: We call how it used to be done and now you're dealing more with the generation that rather do it through text message.
 Patrick Crumby IW: So they recognize they had to make that shift and the ghosting has gone down for them quite a bit,
 Alex: actually. That's very interesting. Thanks for sharing that. And I know it can be counterintuitive, especially for folks who've been recruiting for a while, you know, because of anything.
 Alex: That's the sign of respect, right? The sign of respect is I'm giving you a phone call, right? Um, but people aren't picking up their phone the way.
 Alex: And part of that, too, is understanding that people are getting spammed with, with, with pranks all day long on their phone, right?
 Alex: And the phone companies don't necessarily do a good job of protecting consumers from, from calls that, you know, it's probably going to be an.
 Alex: A number that they don't recognize and what are they now going to pick up on recognized calls all day long.
 Alex: So, you know, we call that empathy for the end user and understanding what the end user is experiencing and adjusting how we take that approach accordingly.
 Alex: Thanks for that. Many other comments on this subject. I'm
 Shuree Sockel: curious.
 Alex: Thank you.
 Shuree Sockel: We have a team of people that. Are really focused on contacting the candidates after they've accepted an offer. Up until their start date with questions.
 Shuree Sockel: Where do I park? What do I wear? What is my expectation? And that's helped greatly with that reduction. And day one, no shows.
 Shuree Sockel: But they're also reaching out to candidates that miss interviews, um, and don't reply back after a second or final interview.
 Shuree Sockel: A lot of these are hourly positions. But it really spreads. That's the gamut. And the surprising thing that we're hearing is that.
 Shuree Sockel: The expectation is that people aren't involved. The. Everything's automated, even when they've had interchanges, exchanges with recruiters, like in real life, they still think things flip back to some automated.
 Shuree Sockel: Um, nobody's going to notice if I don't show up. And we've had. A couple of anecdotal conversations with ones that we did get in contact with that were ghosts that said it never occurred to me that I would need to call and say I'm not showing up.
 Shuree Sockel: And the recruiter has said, well, it's like a hair appointment or a doctor's appointment. If you're not going to make it, you would let them know that you're not going to be there.
 Shuree Sockel: And they're like, I would never do that either. So it just blows. Those are minds that it doesn't occur to a whole pocket of people that, like you said, the respect of getting a phone call or the notification that it just seems so.
 Shuree Sockel: It's the of what we feel is, is second nature or common sense that they feel like we're kind of being ridiculous that we would expect them to let us know that they're not
 Alex: proceeding. and you
 Shuree Sockel: in Also, who really cares, there's nobody that it's directly impacting. Everything's automated and, and there are no people feelings involved.
 Shuree Sockel: So, we're trying to shift the focus on that and just, I mean, we're very high touch, but to be. Even more high touch, but who's going to give the conversations like, you know, in the career services or even in the classes that we just talked about with letting people know that this is how you handle
 Shuree Sockel: a job. So this is how you communicate with others. If you're not even letting your dentist know that you're not coming.
 Shuree Sockel: Um, I feel like this is a bigger problem than just ghosting jobs.
 Alex: How do you mention Dennis because uh Vivian mentioned, about hair salon, no shows and what not, my dentist made a point of letting all of his clients know that we're getting charged if we don't show up.
 Alex: It was, it was like a whole text campaign that he did, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, Yeah. They were
 Shuree Sockel: pushed to that point because of the same scenario, like they had to do
 Alex: it. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I'm interested, you know, one thing that this customer were talking to said that he had gone to a, as a customer, gone to his face.
 Alex: Right? And he said, I'm never going to forget that company the rest of my life. And, and so it caught me thinking, is anybody here doing some like, like magical relationship building type of thing with candidates so that they, to kind of crack through this?
 Alex: All of this, all of this ambiguity and opacity with. The technology that we're using and is there a real person who actually cares about me as a candidate?
 Alex: Is anybody doing something really cool that they like to share with a group? Or even kind of cool. Different.
 Greg Mendez: I do have a few. We have pockets of areas that we know that we do some really amazing stuff. And one of the when areas I like to see are our team that handles, uh, positions that have to do with like alumni relations.
 Greg Mendez: Donor development. Uh, so those air, even if someone is not offered the job, they were close, or maybe it just wasn't the right fit.
 Greg Mendez: That team will work close. And they'll follow up with that individual or team. It might be just simple email. It might be a phone call.
 Greg Mendez: They're actually tracking what's the preferred con point of contact for that person. And I would just say just a quick check check how are things going.
 Greg Mendez: Um, hey, uh, there's nothing yet here. I don't have anything just yet, but I just want to let you know I'm still keeping you in mind.
 Greg Mendez: And sometimes just like keeping your mind thing that one sentence is enough to say, wow, okay. Um, yeah, and that starts off a conversation.
 Greg Mendez: And I think that's. The savvy, the savvy recruiters, uh, and teams, they get that, that it's just doesn't have to be a long detailed par, uh, email because simply be just, I'm checking in just to see how you're doing.
 Greg Mendez: Here's my number. If you want to reach out to me. Let me know if things going. Boom. And then just continue working.
 Greg Mendez: And some of them will even track them on LinkedIn. Uh, little things like liking their posts, if they do something.
 Greg Mendez: That's a big deal. Like, they don't, I
 Alex: don't know
 Greg Mendez: how much to do. If you're at HR and recruiting and you, Just stick your head and just, they can see that you've been looking at them and like the post.
 Greg Mendez: That makes their day for many of them. I think that, especially if they're having a really hard, um, applicant, uh, uh, applying for jobs.
 Greg Mendez: That makes their day.
 Alex: I love that. And I'm always trying to talk about how what we do with recruiter bandwidth that's freed up by automation.
 Alex: That is not reducing head count. And brand building on LinkedIn, I think, can be a really, really. I know you did a lot of that as a recruiter, right?
 Alex: Like having a presence in social media and engaging in that way. I think it really sends a, sends a message and meets people where they're at.
 Alex: It's great. Anybody else doing something that, uh, they think is, yeah, this, I've been having a hard time keeping up with this chat.
 Alex: It's full of ideas. Paul, you said when you were recruiting nurses, you just- to keep it real, made sure they knew that they loved it.
 Alex: What, what does that mean to you?
 Paul Day: Well, I don't know. That was like a high stakes kind of thing, right? Because all the- all the home healthcare companies were all after this.
 Paul Day: The same nurses, right? So, it was very, very much about building relationships and getting people to trust you, right? Uhm, and I used to speak to them more like a friend, you know, cause nurses were this, uhh, uhh, umm, the variety of group of people, but they're pretty rough and harsh, right?
 Paul Day: Cause they've been doing it for ages, you know, they're in home health care, this and that. And I used to just talk to them like they were my friend, but I think they're the reason I did a lot better than some of the people around me was because I was honest with them about, like, everything.
 Paul Day: You know, people always, like, try to hide some of the little details of, like, maybe a client because they don't want to scare away the nurse.
 Paul Day: This. And that, right. Um, and I never, because that, you know, we've talked about sales a lot and that kind of felt to me like fishy, scammy sales, you know, and so, um, just.
 Paul Day: And. Quickly, I learned that these nurses just began to trust me and then they would come to me looking for work versus me trying to have to find them, you know, so that's kind of what I, what I was saying and I did.
 Paul Day: I really like made Myself available and I, you know, maybe work like balance stuff. That's not good, but I did make myself available 24 seven.
 Paul Day: A lot of times where they would text me and I was there because, you know, there was stakes involved. There was clients.
 Paul Day: That needed the nurses. So I always take on like this higher, you know, I felt bad for them because I'm human, right?
 Paul Day: And they needed a nurse, but the conditions are so horrible. No nurse wants to go there, right? So it was like.
 Paul Day: I don't know if I'm rambling now, but just just the per being there for them all the time made it feel like I cared about them versus I'm just doing a job, you know,
 Alex: and I
 Paul Day: think that's what helped me stand out because I did win. Some awards at that job and stuff like that for, you know, hiring the most nurses, this and that.
 Paul Day: So I guess what I was doing work, you know?
 Alex: Well, and, and the less clicking you have to do, the more of that you can do as a recruiter.
 Paul Day: Yeah. And we had a nice process where we didn't need anything to talk to nurses, right? Like, uhm, I had a list of like 50,000 nurses from New Jersey and I could just put them into items and, like, reach out to them, right?
 Paul Day: Through an email and ask them to apply. So it was, yeah, it was nice.
 Alex: That's great. And I want to call out Michelle. Michelle said we send brownies to do. I'm just going to guess that your day one, uh, ghosting rate is lower than the industry norm.
 Alex: I'm just going to take a wild guess. Right? Have you gotten any feedback about that, Michelle? Do people talk
 Michelle Braunschweig: about it? Yeah, people actually, I think I have one today that was thinking we thought it was that not everybody says a comment back to us, but quite a few do.
 Michelle Braunschweig: But we don't hire a lot of frontline people. More salary than hourly, but any more small enough that we can still go on.
 Alex: That's great. Thank you so much for sharing that. So I want to transition now to our questions in SAI. And, uh, two.
 Alex: There we go. Alright, so. Our first question. Shari, you had a question. Clean up of source field in IZIMS.
 Shuree Sockel: Yeah, pretty probably elementary question. Um, something that I've put off. I might have even talked to Vivian about it a long time ago.
 Shuree Sockel: But we have that source field that just keeps getting bigger and bigger. I have one response from Terry. And, and he mentioned that they clean up their, their reporting every morning.
 Shuree Sockel: I'm like, oh my gosh, we've let ours faster for years and years. So I'm just wondering, um. If anyone has any feedback on how to get started cleaning that up, or what I should look out for, or not break or mess up, uh, just to get me motivated to do it.
 Shuree Sockel: And maybe the other question is, should I do it? Is it something that wants me to? If it gets too far gone, you just give up.
 Shuree Sockel: Wow.
 Alex: Well,
 Vivian Larsen: and I asked you a question. Have you cleaned up your candidate database since the last time we chatted about it?
 Vivian Larsen: Or do you still have hundreds of thousands of records?
 Shuree Sockel: Um, yeah, we still have hundreds of thousands. We've been cleaning, um, maybe hundreds of thousands since last time you looked at it, but we still have hundreds of thousands that were getting rid of.
 Vivian Larsen: Okay. Sorry to put you on the spot like
 Shuree Sockel: that, but
 Vivian Larsen: the reason that I asked me answer to your question, um, is you may want to consider. So basically think like bulk edit, but instead of bulk editing, you're just going to extract all of your user profiles, do a full on data conversion, and then re-impa- the source for all of your profiles, and then from
 Vivian Larsen: there, start Terry's process, because Terry's process is the best process that you could potentially go. But if you don't start with clean data, you're still going to have lots of pain.
 Vivian Larsen: So you would have to do a data migration process to extract, clean import, clean data, and make sure, like, you're matching the source that this one says, indeed, and then this one says, indeed, easy applyin.
 Vivian Larsen: And this, with this one, like, so, like, map to the correct answer now, and then overwrite the source information with the right information you want to track.
 Shuree Sockel: Yeah, I hadn't thought about that. That's a great strategy. Um, and also getting an intern to do it is another great idea.
 Alex: I've got a, I've got a coordinator coming back from vacation soon, and
 Shuree Sockel: maybe I'll, I'll give her some work. Um.
 Alex: I don't know. That sounds like a lot of
 Shuree Sockel: fun.
 Alex: So another approach that we've taken is, uh, Power BI, right? And so instead of updating the information in items, take the information out of items and you can program Power BI.
 Alex: With every permutation that you see, right? So the 10 different spellings of indeed moving, moving indeed into source specific instead of it being at the same hierarchy level as job board.
 Alex: Right? So, um, that's, that's another approach. Um, and I, I mean, uh, depends, depends on, on, uh, your situation, but I personally prefer that if powered by B.I.
 Alex: is an option to constantly having to manually update things and items. But, um, Yeah, that's, uh, that's another way to handle it.
 Alex: How are other folks doing it? My guess is that a lot of folks actually aren't.
 Alex: Now, I guess is that a lot of folks aren't, uh, getting the value out of their source reporting that they could be.
 Alex: Um, because, and, and let me just say, there is, there's a ton of value to get out of it. We had.
 Alex: Uh, one, one member a couple years ago who would create a Power BI report that showed exactly where jobs needed to be spon- sponsored.
 Alex: So you could see where the organic reach started to dip. And then he would catch it right there. And instead of.
 Alex: Sponsoring it from day zero through. He would sponsored a day seven day nine day twelve, whatever the case may be.
 Alex: You know, it was different for every job category and sometimes job by job. That's another thing that you can do with it.
 Alex: But, you know, if you can get that, if you can get really good metrics around that, you can really. Impact the amount of money that you're forking over to indeed in the other job boards.
 Kaitlyn Faile: Sure. I have a follow-up question. Do you allow typing? Is that little box checked on all of your source options?
 Alex: I think Shari has gone to a deep state of meditation. Shari, are you there? Your video's frozen.
 Kaitlyn Faile: Hello.
 Alex: Hello. Okay. Shari has reached Nirvana, I believe.
 Kaitlyn Faile: Well, for everyone else, if you have that allow typing box checked, that is also going to allow everyone in your system when they get, to that field, whatever they type in, will be added to your list of
 Alex: sources from, and then
 Kaitlyn Faile: choose from.
 Alex: So,
 Kaitlyn Faile: if you really want to lock that down, make sure you have as many options as you want, and have like an other, and refer, if that's how you track referrals, are the only ones that allow typing.
 Kaitlyn Faile: And that's how you can control that a little bit, but you'll still end up with some silly stuff in there.
 Alex: Yeah. Great observation. Okay, let's move on to the next question. Cordell, are you on the call today?
 Cordell Ratner: Hi,
 Alex: Cordell. How you doing?
 Cordell Ratner: I am fantastic, thank you.
 Alex: Great. So, talk to us about, What's your question here?
 Cordell Ratner: So, this is a basic new items question. Um, and if you are kind enough to open up the document that's there to be a little bit easier to follow what's happening.
 Alex: Okay, yep. And
 Cordell Ratner: so, so basically we're opening up a, um, a job, and we're selecting, uh, candidates. And I'll see this by a, okay, so the top left corner has, uh, we have some check marks by the candidates' names.
 Cordell Ratner: And then, on step three, we decide we're going to click on one of the candidates. It's names, and step four, we're going to, um, maybe take an action on that candidate.
 Cordell Ratner: Maybe send an email or something. We get to, uh, we finish sending that email. And then we, at the top of this page on the right-hand side, we click.
 Cordell Ratner: This back button. Um, and what happens is we're taken to the list of our candidates again, but all of the checkmarks are now
 Alex: gone.
 Cordell Ratner: So, like, we may have wanted to retain those checkmarks because we had screened those people or have been being wanted to take.
 Cordell Ratner: I like some other action on just those people. Um, and I wonder if any of you all have, um, either advice for how to better get back, navigate back and forth without losing those checkmarks or
 Alex: interesting. So the purpose of multi-select here is to bulk action. But what do you, what, what's the, what's the specific thing you are doing when you go into the candidate?
 Cordell Ratner: So, and, and this guy was just trying to, to figure out a way that could get the system to behave the way the reporter was saying that it was missing those checkmarks when we came back.
 Cordell Ratner: So I, I happened to go ahead on step four and clicked on creating an email and just emailed that individual candidate.
 Cordell Ratner: But they may be doing some, I think, some other action on that individual candidate. Um, and then they wanted to come back and, See, there's other three candidates that they had the check marks on and they aren't there anymore.
 Angela Biehl: I love this, Cordell. We've had this similar issue and we've left, like, It's the ISM specifically for a few issues like this.
 Angela Biehl: And one of the other pain points for our recruiting team is the inability to bulk select between the statuses. So if you were to select someone between.
 Angela Biehl: Um, you know, external portal versus recruiter review, you can only do bulk from one status, which doesn't make sense at all.
 Angela Biehl: Mmm. We've escalated that issue ties in.
 Cordell Ratner: Okay. Alright, um, I'll do the same. I'm sure I've worked. I have two recruiters who are, like, in the deep water with, uh, with isomes while the rest of them are just starting to dip their toes in.
 Cordell Ratner: And then it's the deep water ones that I'm trying to help out. So, yeah, that's another good thing. Okay, thanks, Angel.
 Alex: Any other thoughts on that? It's a great question.
 Cordell Ratner: And I just wanted to bring it out there because,
 Alex: you know,
 Cordell Ratner: I'm not necessarily looking for the solution to others that had experience. That's great. And if not, I'll carry it to, uh, items and ask them for.
 Alex: Yeah, that's a good question. Let us know what you can find out, Cradel.
 Cordell Ratner: Yep. Okay, well done.
 Alex: Thanks. Alright. Next question. Jessica. Jessica or is it in the call?
 Jessica Juarez: Oh,
 Alex: hi. Hi. Yep. Talk to us about your question here.
 Jessica Juarez: Yes, so I am in the research stage and I want to see is it possible to set up the onboarding module for a subsidiary?
 Jessica Juarez: So that way, you know. So the parent company does not have access to the candidates in the onboarding module that is not of the parent company.
 Alex: Mmm. Vivian, that sounds like a Vivian
 Vivian Larsen: question. It's possible, but it's hard. Um, so you're going to need something on the candidate profile that recognizes that they're from the subsidiary.
 Vivian Larsen: Um, so usually source portal is one of the most common things I've
 Jessica Juarez: seen
 Vivian Larsen: used there. So if they're coming in and- in a subsidiary portal, then you use source portal as the profile. But they can get muddy because if the candidate also applies to the parent company, then that who sees that record and the system has kind of a hard time.
 Vivian Larsen: Um, usually this is handled in an H.R.S. integration, um, meaning you've hired the candidate. The onboarding packet's been sent to the H.R.S.
 Vivian Larsen: and then the H.R.S. sends back, uh, subsidiary or company to the candidate profile. So now you're using that as your filter point to be.
 Vivian Larsen: Be able to hide that record from anyone in the other company. Um, the, the best rule of thumb whenever you're trying to do something in regards to segregating data in your database is make sure it's not a human being that's creating the filter point that it's not.
 Vivian Larsen: Kind of integration that's managing whatever data point you're using to filter. Um, so then as far as the onboarding portal, you're going to want a separate portal for the onboarding portal, which can totally be done.
 Vivian Larsen: You can have multiples. Um, the. Users being in their own logging group makes the segregation process much easier. So if each subsidiary has a subsidiary hiring manager, then you can set the permissions in security rules like we were talking about earlier search locks.
 Vivian Larsen: Um, and access controls. Access controls is usually my biggest recommendation in this regard because dynamic filtering is available. Um, so it's not a small answer.
 Vivian Larsen: It's you're going to have to approach this from many different angle. You're approaching it from the recruiting workflow profile. You're approaching it from the person profile.
 Vivian Larsen: And you're also approaching it from the HRAS integration perspective. So the answer is yes, it can be done. It's just a lift and there's a lot of moving
 Jessica Juarez: parts. Thank you. It makes a lot of sense.
 Alex: Is anybody else doing that? Okay, and if not, Caitlin, you ready to spin the wheel? Alright, we're going to take a little break here.
 Alex: Mid beating. Great. By the way, if you want access to our full platform and office hours, pretty much every day.
 Alex: Contact sales at integral [recruiting.com](http://recruiting.com/) and we can talk to you about a full essay. I membership. Now we are going to spin the wheel with folks in.
 Alex: The meeting today, we did remove some folks who are recent winners. So can't win twice in the same four weeks span today.
 Alex: It's Ariel's turn. To get lunch on SAI. Congratulations Ariel. Caitlin will send you a link to door dash $25 gift card.
 Alex: Hope you get something tasty.
 Ariel Hsieh (she/her): Thank you guys.
 Alex: Enjoy. Alright, so the floor is now open to general questions who else has a question today.
 Angela Biehl: I have a quick question.
 Angela Biehl: If we have time for it, Alex. Absolutely. We have some new, more complex offer letter I forms, kind of choose your own adventure options as opposed to the.
 Angela Biehl: The true offer management system. And we've got minor adjustments to make to a few of them. And it's my first time really adjusting those I forms.
 Angela Biehl: Just curious if anyone has best practices on whether we should copy them. You know, they've been filled out, um, just best practices on on how to edit an existing I form that's being used as an offer letter.
 Townsend Wilkinson: Yeah, so depending on what you're changing, um, if there are any dependencies in the I form, it's normally better to start fresh.
 Townsend Wilkinson: Um, if you're. You're changing for a bridge inside of dependencies that could change it for other people that have filled it out previously.
 Townsend Wilkinson: Um, if you're changing any kind of logic for those dependencies, uh, that could make things disappear. So, uh, my recommendation anytime you're editing a form with dependencies, if you're touching those at all, start fresh.
 Angela Biehl: Awesome. That's what I needed. Thank you, Townsend.
 Townsend Wilkinson: Cool. You're welcome.
 Alex: Great. Uh, you had a question. You said, I believe, indeed, automatically pulls our items jobs. Is there a recommended time frame to pull that wreck down?
 Alex: Repost a new one for SEO. Oh, boy. Caitlyn, I see you smiling. What are your thoughts?
 Kaitlyn Faile: Oh, four. I know that they historically have flagged reposts, so if you take something down and immediately put up the same job, it used to be 59 days.
 Kaitlyn Faile: And they would flag your account. The last time I heard it was 21. And then I think I have also heard now it is 14.
 Kaitlyn Faile: So if you repost the same job within 14 days, your account can get flagged and they will. Not post any of your jobs.
 Kaitlyn Faile: Um, and they don't broadcast that. I've been flagged a few times in previous roles, but nothing ever really happened. So I'm not sure what that actually does, but those were the dates.
 Kaitlyn Faile: And they have progressively decreased throughout my tenure.
 Rachel.Savitt: In general, we do.
 Kaitlyn Faile: Please.
 Rachel.Savitt: Um, we repost. So ours automatically scrape into our career side. Linked in as well as indeed. And we get flagged as a recruiter.
 Rachel.Savitt: So I'm primarily TA, just Tonya's number two when needed. Um, we have two things. We have on our dashboard, candidates to disposition.
 Rachel.Savitt: As well as jobs to refresh. So, um, jobs to refresh. If it's been two weeks, we get a notification to go in there, take down the posting and repost it.
 Rachel.Savitt: And it's a two week period of time. It's at our discretion. Cause sometimes we're in offer. And we don't want to repost it.
 Rachel.Savitt: But it does flag us to do it. So, I think it's still at two weeks because I have not heard of us being flagged or account being flat being able to do that.
 Rachel.Savitt: Um, but we do it every two weeks. And then just to go back to the candidate follow up, the candidates to disposition, if a position is moved to close filled and recruiters have not disposition candidates that are in there.
 Rachel.Savitt: It's. Shows up on their dashboard. And so they should be going in to make sure that everybody gets communication and nobody is ghosted by our company.
 Kaitlyn Faile: And another important call out with that is making sure that you're unposting the jobs. Because I have several platforms that I've been in lately where there are thousands of jobs that are still posted, even though the posting says canceled.
 Kaitlyn Faile: If you don't actually pull it down, that can cause some bandwidth issues. And also, that's how all those kind of third party random sites are getting your information and posting old jobs.
 Rachel.Savitt: I think Tonya set up something where if it's moved to closed filled at a minimum. It automatically pulls down the source.
 Rachel.Savitt: So there was some sort of role she set up, which has been
 Alex: helpful. Mm-hmm. That's great. And just to clarify, are we, we're talking about. Taking one down and creating a brand new one and putting that up to replace it, right?
 Alex: As opposed to because everybody knows that if you take the same down and then repost it, then that's not, yeah.
 Alex: Okay. Create a date tracks it pretty closely. Paul, you said you have clients who are doing it monthly with no issues.
 Alex: thank you. That's interesting. Got it.
 Paul Day: Yeah. Um, they have a 30 day kind of like internal refresh policy for their, for their jobs and they have, um.
 Paul Day: Never been flagged by, um, by Andy.
 Alex: Got it. Alright, any other thoughts on that? I dropped a link to an interest. The interesting article on, uh, uh, it's by the founder of Monster.
 Alex: As we all know, uh, they filed for chapter 11 bankruptcy recently, and he's talking about trends that he's seeing with indeed and speculating about the, the future of, indeed, as a company.
 Alex: It's an interesting read. All right, other questions. We have time for one or two more questions. Oh, Alicia, so you, I was gonna mention, that, but I didn't know, So, yeah, how do folks track time to fill when there are multiple, uh, wrecks for the same, multiple postings for the same wreck, right?
 Alex: Yeah, that's, that's an interesting question. What are folks doing? How are they, how are they knitting those together to get an accurate time to fill?
 Greg Mendez: On our end, uh, If it's a cohort, kind of like a class, uh, we'll, we'll, we'll just, basically, cause we, every single, we're in a work day environment, so we use position management, so it's gonna be one person, or, or, position.
 Greg Mendez: Uh, so what we'll do is, behind the scenes, we've, have the multiple recs ready to go, so when we identify the finalists, we'll, we'll put them into that specific items job, and send them over to HRS.
 Greg Mendez: But what we do is we only pfft, post one of those, as can't say the, like, of a better word, the parent's job.
 Greg Mendez: That's what gets posted. And we keep that post since we've pretty much have either enough candidates for the pool, or, They have identified all the file-in-ness and can fill all the openings for that particular rec.
 Greg Mendez: And we'll go ahead and then close it. Uh, so in there, for the core concept that works. Uh, sometimes we do have, multiple openings.
 Greg Mendez: I have to say it's an advisor position, uh, for that has two openings, same department. And what they'll do is, again, the same thing, same concept parent.
 Greg Mendez: And then they'll also, they'll just kind of, First come, first, first situation. The first person who gets, uh, the first finalist gets filled in the parent.
 Greg Mendez: Umm. Actually, you it gets filled in the, uh, in the, in the child. And then the parent is hand, it fills the second candidate whenever they're selected.
 Greg Mendez: Uh, most of the time, they're still using the parent as the tracking because, uh, they'll ask themselves, well, how long did it take us to fill both vacancies for that department at the same time?
 Greg Mendez: Cause it's a looking at it from a department perspective.
 Alex: We've added two custom fields to every requisition that is, is this a new rec? And if it is a new rec,
 Angela Biehl: what is the prior rec number? And what's the reason? Is it a repost? Is it a re-leveling? Umm, did a candidate fall through so that we at least, and it gets messy, right, if you have to do it more than once.
 Angela Biehl: But we at least have that record going back. We know that if there's no rec number listed, that it's not a repost.
 Angela Biehl: And we have accurate metrics.
 Alex: Great. I think that speaks to Caitlin's comment too, right? Great. Cool. All right. Time for one more question. Okay, if there's no more questions, then we'll go to breakouts.
 Alex: Now this is an opportunity to say hello to a couple other men. Uh, Caitlin, are you ready to go? All right.
 Alex: So we'll have five minutes to hang out and share one thing that you learned about ISM's that you are proud of or a question that you have.
 Alex: If you need to drop, have a wonderful weekend. I hope you have a restful and restorative weekend