iCIMS Hacks: Vendor Vetting, AI, and Source Data: Live From NYU (8/22/25)

Live from NYU, the SAI community digs into iCIMS release issues, fake candidates, vendor vetting, AI adoption, and keeping source data clean.

https://systemadmininsights.com/

Transcript

105E17_485A: All right. Folks are coming in here. Let me know. Sheree, can you hear me right now?
 Shuree Sockel: Yeah. Sounds good.
 105E17_485A: Hey. Okay, great. This is so
 Shuree Sockel: incredibly
 105E17_485A: disorienting to hear. You have done this from home for 250 plus times, and now we have the honor here of being live at NYU.
 105E17_485A: Our host, Greg Mendez, has very generously loaned this space to us today, and this is, uh. It's a historic moment for a couple of reasons.
 105E17_485A: It's the first time that we have hosted a hybrid version of SAI, and it's also the first time that IRD, which is a completely remote team, is together in person in one place.
 105E17_485A: We had some, uh, great breakfast this morning and a dinner last night, and it's just been so fun getting to see people in person and make these connections.
 105E17_485A: So I'm grateful to the whole team. I'm grateful to Greg, and of course to our SAI community. So with that, let's kick off our meeting.
 105E17_485A: Welcome everybody to System Admin Insights. This is a place for iSIMS customers with real practical experience in TA and TA Ops to get together and talk about great iSIMS solutions.
 105E17_485A: We are going to start the meeting off today with learning a little bit more about Greg. So, Greg has been doing HR systems at NYU for how long?
 105E17_485A: Now it's about 10 o Right. And, and Greg, it's like, like so many of us, uh, you probably didn't, uh, grow up as a kid, uh, dreaming of a career in HR tech.
 105E17_485A: So how did you happen into this field? Yeah, no, according to my, uh, my plan when I was about 10 years old, I should have been walking on the moon by now.
 105E17_485A: Uh, obviously it didn't work out. Uh, but I'm, I'm still waiting for that opportunity for a moon or Mars. Uh, I, I, actually, you know, I ended up over here.
 105E17_485A: I started off in my, in my higher ed world life back in 1998. So yeah, I go, it's, it's, I'm almost 30 years there.
 105E17_485A: Uh, I remember when the world wide web was actually called the world. Wide web, uh, and from there went into, uh, career services.
 105E17_485A: So in higher ed did a whole bunch of roles there. Then about the mid 2010s, head over to Rutgers. Where I started my first, I kind of fell into HR.
 105E17_485A: I didn't know what it was at the time, but it was, ended up being healthcare HR. Uh, then I stint over there and came over to NYU.
 105E17_485A: And there I had a variety of talent acquisition. Rows, recruiting, uh, onboarding, doing the contingency clearances, all that fun stuff.
 105E17_485A: And then about 2015, uh, we started exploring, uh, for a new, for a new ATF. Yes, ISIMS was one of them.
 105E17_485A: And next thing I know we were doing implementation by early 2016. And July 11th, 2016, I remember it to this day, we went live with ISIMS.
 105E17_485A: And, uh, the story, the story, the real story goes that, uhm, I wasn't, I didn't actually think I'd be helping to oversee our instance.
 105E17_485A: But the manager at the time shared with us and said, you know, Greg, uh, you're gonna be the one, uhm, with the keys.
 105E17_485A: When I'm finished. I thought he was joking. Uh, he wasn't. Uh, by day two, I had the keys. Uhm, but it's been fun.
 105E17_485A: It's been an amazing adventure. Got to meet a lot of great people. And it has been, every day brings a new challenge and a new opportunity.
 105E17_485A: So, what excites you most about HR tech these days? Uhm, obviously, AI is a big thing for me. It's, uh, I love it.
 105E17_485A: Uhm, but what I'm also loving to see is the new next generation beginning to come up. You know, we've got people who are now.
 105E17_485A: They've been used to technology for so long. They have a social media technology. It's in their blood. It's, it's a it's just it's just as it's just like water and bread is to us.
 105E17_485A: And so we basically are just kind of, they're just watching them take on HR, the challenges and kind of see basically how they're doing it, how they're interpreting, uh, the same.
 105E17_485A: And problems and solving it in different ways. I'm loving that. Um, I am really excited to see where AI is going to take us and where it's not, and where we're going to find that balance.
 105E17_485A: So I'm really excited about. Just seeing the opportunities going to open. I know it's scary for a lot, but I think there's going to be more opportunities than scariness.
 105E17_485A: Yeah, I agree. And I feel like this professional demographic of HR technology folks. So, uh, I think way to that the uh, are particularly well qualified and well suited to make sure that these solutions are implemented in a way that is ethical and responsive to how people actually uh, need and want to
 105E17_485A: use them and how they. you should be used. Umm, so what concerns you the most about HR technology and developments and what do you think we should look out for?
 105E17_485A: I wanted the AI as well. Uh, I, I think we're in this hype cycle. Uh, I, uhh, I think, you know, depending on who you ask, we're kind of on the, we're now beginning on the downward trend of the hype cycle.
 105E17_485A: I'm hoping, crossing fingers. But what I'm thinking, what I'm seeing a lot lately, and I, and I don't have to tell you, we can go out and get the whole whole session just on this, is basically, we have.
 105E17_485A: We've got people who are making decisions, uh, about the TA tech stack based on their gut, based on their past experience.
 105E17_485A: And past experience can help inform, but it doesn't mean that what I, what I used in organizing. A is going to work in organization B, right?
 105E17_485A: It's a different culture, different needs. And so we've got a lot of leaders with great intent. Um, but they're getting really not the best advice.
 105E17_485A: And again, I know I'd buy. But they're getting the kind of advice where you'll probably be asking. Because of that level, some more quantitative questions about your requirements.
 105E17_485A: What, what do you need for your strategy, business requirements? Uh, do you need to do A? Do you need to do B?
 105E17_485A: You know, it's not just about budget. Uh, and a lot of people are getting caught up with AI, along with all the technologies and the- don't get me wrong.
 105E17_485A: Salespeople, I love them. That's- they've got to do their job. Uh, but it- it- it- they're getting cut- we're- our leaders are getting caught up in a lot of that hype and the pressure to do something AI or the- a shiny new toy.
 105E17_485A: And I think we need to step back as leaders and people who advise them and kind of work with them to give them the best advice.
 105E17_485A: Easier said than done, that's absolutely for sure. Yeah. And I've noticed I've had conversations- with a few executives in the last couple months about AI and they were asking me about AI tech adoption.
 105E17_485A: And my first question was like, well, how are you using AI in your, uh, work and professional lives? And, and several of them said, oh, not enough.
 105E17_485A: Right? Like, uh, what would you suggest I do? So I think it's very, there's a huge, uh, uh, comfort gap there in AI literacy gap.
 105E17_485A: And, you know, I always encourage them to start playing around with it and experiment with it. So they understand what.
 105E17_485A: It does. And now it works a little bit better. But I think it's also an area where, again, this professional demographic, we're very well positioned to act as, as advisors, because we do have our hands deep into that technology can, you know, can explain some of the, uh, unanticipated.
 105E17_485A: An impact that it can have when not deployed skillfully. Um, I want to ask you a question that we touched on last week, which is, you know, so, so, there are so many candidates flooding our systems because there are developed.
 105E17_485A: developers using AI to help these resumes, some of which are, you know, generated on mass or some of them, which are entirely fake, just for the purpose of conducting penetration testing.
 105E17_485A: Um, and so companies want to adopt technology. So that recruiters can just do their jobs at this point. And because these recruiters are staring at pipelines that are full of 30-50% worth of fake candidates.
 105E17_485A: And so companies are feeling the pressure to keep up and adopt technology that is still in its infancy. And we were talking about trust and about how do you select a vendor where you know that they're going to be around long enough to support the tools that they create.
 105E17_485A: How do you really fit the quality of those tools? What is your thinking been since we had that conversation? Or where do you, where do you like?
 105E17_485A: And then we'll let it right now. Uh, I'm actually about to prepare a double, double implementation this fall, uh, one for a part of our background check system and our online reference checking solution.
 105E17_485A: I, I know I've spoken about that in, you know, some, it's, uh, in previous sessions. Uh, I'm still a believer that, you know, you've, you know, you've got to go ahead and you've really have to bet these, you got to treat these, these vendors as a potential hire.
 105E17_485A: Right? And you've got to go ahead and you got to- think of them as they're going to- this is a relationship we're getting into.
 105E17_485A: Umm, not that I would, you know, advocate for, you know, background checking and, you know, vetting your- your significant other.
 105E17_485A: Umm, but, you know, it is a good- it's a probably, you know, get to know them a little bit. And this is the idea.
 105E17_485A: I mean, we're- that your vendor, umm, the sales team is going to say one thing, but speak to their clients, understand their financials, uhh, get- uhh, uhh, to know what's their motivations, what are their- what's their roadmap, see if it lines, and you know what, if it turns out, you- it doesn't align
 105E17_485A: , but you need to go with another vendor, that's not a- that's not a loss. I if it's that long, that, if anything, that's a game, the process worked, and maybe you never know that- that relationship could come to fruition down the line, but not this time.
 105E17_485A: So, I think we'd have to, um, also be careful about giving it to the pressure to just- be able to put something out.
 105E17_485A: Uh, you gotta also be willing, just like in a dating scene up there, it's okay to say this is not gonna work out.
 105E17_485A: It's okay. Leave amically, we just- we just move on. Uh, we just gotta be open to it. I think we just gotta vet these- He's fine.
 105E17_485A: He doesn't what makes But I'm really concerned is that, uh, you know if a- if you get a vet- vendor a today, if they're a brand-new startup and I think the startups are amazing in the- among most agile in the business, we wanna make sure you sure that, hey, are they gonna be there for me by next year
 105E17_485A: ? And what are our contingencies gonna be if they're not or if they're taken over by another company? Uh, that wasn't- that's not- that wasn't a big an issue just a few years ago.
 105E17_485A: But if you're jumping- into AI and you're gonna be on the bleeding edge, be prepared to- when you're diving in ongoing bleeding edge, you're d- you're diving into the deep end of the pool, so be ready for that.
 105E17_485A: You think it'd be useful to look at, uh, who's- funding the company and who's on their board? Uh, you know, it- it's- it's- well, it's particularly important, I think, to do that, if you have the time, um, that's typically done by, say, for our procurement team.
 105E17_485A: But, you know, if you- if you're, uh, a smaller- All in. It's definitely worth- worth doing that, and it's worth asking them.
 105E17_485A: This is why, for example, a lot of times, you'll start asking about, you know, you'll have people ask about who their processes are, so processors.
 105E17_485A: Yes, it's about some of it's about government compliance, um, e-compliance, California compliance. The other part is you can- tell a lot by also who are their subprocessors.
 105E17_485A: So what's their relationship? Here's our concern. Are they red flags? Now that- the- the- the balance- What would you mean by subprocessors, for instance?
 105E17_485A: Yeah, sure. So uh, you know, if you're a construction, you- you just be your sub contractors, right? So, uh, I'm gonna- let's say I'm- I'm vendor A, my job is to make a widget.
 105E17_485A: Uh, I'm not- I'm most likely not gonna make that widget by myself. I'm gonna have to partner with- with. other vendors, other teams, other companies around the world, to do something.
 105E17_485A: Maybe that's the- the BI tool. Maybe that's gonna be, um, the cloud. It's- there's a whole infrastructure. They have an- internal supply chain of their own.
 105E17_485A: And who they partner with, what we call, subprocessors, right? They're processing a port that information could be, you know, we think processing could be, we think payment and data, but it could be other things as well.
 105E17_485A: Other parts of the infrastructure. Uh, Bye. If someone goes ahead and they're, and if you're particularly sensitive to that, and that particular self-processor is maybe not a line to your mission or is on a certain type of, umm, situation.
 105E17_485A: The situation where it could cause a red flag for your organization, you need to be aware of that. And most vendors are pre-transparent with the self-process, especially with e-laws these days.
 105E17_485A: It's pre-transparent. You know, you brought something up that's so interesting. So you're taught, like, governance of this, right? And what's interesting is, is you're looking at a background chat vendor and another vendor.
 105E17_485A: And as part of that within HR, AI is involved, right? Right. And, and so, Mike, I'm actually curious to see, do you have a formalized risk committee that has, you know, the NYU policy on adopting of it?
 105E17_485A: A. I. And, to your point, because, like, you know, any finished product, for example, 60% of it, on average, are downstream.
 105E17_485A: The extended supply chain, and we don't have visibility to that, in most cases, and it's similar to the digital supply chain.
 105E17_485A: So, I'm just curious, like, because that's a big, tough, ask for everyone in this room, but you need a background check vendor, and you go out, and they're showing you here's this AI, and do you, do you have that, like, a formalized, I, I, uhh, you get a question of, like, an enterprise risk team, or
 105E17_485A: , whether it's IT that has those boundaries in place? Or is it what I see a lot where the leadership is catching up with other little AI tools that everyone's- .
 105E17_485A: Right? So, what's your experience on that? I find it fascinating. And I- I think you're very small. I mean, actually, I don't- I don't even put a size.
 105E17_485A: I think- I think there are even large companies that are in the same situation that you just described. Where they're just- playing catch-up, right?
 105E17_485A: Uh, so I- I don't think it's just a function of size. You tend to see it more often in smaller companies, but I've definitely heard- we've all heard it in- in- in the media where larger companies are in the exact same situation.
 105E17_485A: They're just kind of winged. Um, that's probably not the way you want to go if you're going with an enterprise-wide system.
 105E17_485A: That's just my philosophy. Um, it has different flavors of AI from machine learning to what we call generative AI. And you'll see a lot of machine learning that those have been around for years.
 105E17_485A: Luckily, a lot of organizations already have protocols for that. Um, NYU is blessed that we do have, uhm, both enterprise risk, cybersecurity.
 105E17_485A: And a whole series teams, they keep, uh, they keep us pretty honest. If they even get a whiff that something has AI, and I can tell you this from a personal experience with different products.
 105E17_485A: Even if it's just, uh, machine learning, if it's any type of AI, any type of service. They're going through a pretty intense process.
 105E17_485A: Our online reference checking vendor could attest to that. I tell them, our onboarding process is probably up there with, like, the federal government.
 105E17_485A: In fact, we've recruited- a lot of people from our procurement from different companies and government agencies. So, that's why it kind of feels like that process.
 105E17_485A: So, it should. Again, you're vetting somebody. If you're gonna have a nanny, they're gonna stay with you, or take care of your kids.
 105E17_485A: Uh, you're gonna- vet them some type of basic vetting. Yeah. Same thing. We're not saying that everyone has to follow this kind of vetting, but if you're gonna have your larger organization, or what you're gonna be working on is very sensitive.
 105E17_485A: That's worth- that's worth the extra few days or a week. It's gonna take- to do that vetting. And I applaud that.
 105E17_485A: I'm glad you brought that up, because- and- and I'll stop here, because when you- you just bring the AI, I mean, it really is the digital supply chain.
 105E17_485A: That's really what it is, because it's gonna sprinkle every part of your organization. And so, having that holistic view, and continuous monitoring, and additional vetting, um, I'm glad to hear that, and it's just- it's just something I- I just hope that, like, everyone has that within the organization
 105E17_485A: , or- at least, you know, sort of that guidance to say, hey, let me coordinate with that and make sure. Um, but- but what- the two parts of it didn't happen overnight, took a few years from us, and we're- we're still developing- still evolving.
 105E17_485A: Um, and then these are different people. So, they don't have a stake in the game. For them, it's about protecting emitter game risk for the- for the organization.
 105E17_485A: So, they're looking at it. I'm not allowed to go ahead and, you know, vet that part of the- I can give my opinion, I can them adopted, but another team's gonna give the green light a red light.
 105E17_485A: So, you gotta have a third party, uh, keep- someone to keep you honest, even if you have the best intentions.
 105E17_485A: Yeah. Yeah. Thanks. Well Greg, thank you so much. Let's jump on over to S.A.I. Circle Platform. And we will see what questions we have from the community today.
 105E17_485A: Caitlin, do you want to screen share that? All right, and I do believe I saw Angela join the call.
 105E17_485A: Angela, you want to unmute and talk about your question here?
 Angela Biehl: Sure, we've noticed just a- a few unusual things, uh, since the latest ISM's release. One of our fields that was, uh, mandatory on our onboarding portal was moved unexpectedly to unused fields.
 Angela Biehl: We're seeing issues, especially with, uh, adjusting workflow configurations. Um, there's all these validation errors. That come up and I don't have the ability to move past them.
 Angela Biehl: So I had to work with support to get those changes. And they said they're working on it, but I was just curious.
 Angela Biehl: We also have had issues with interview scheduling. Where, in some instances, um, the activity tab is not loading properly for candidates.
 Angela Biehl: And all of this is just within the last few weeks here. So I was just curious if anybody else is struggling with these issues or, um.
 Angela Biehl: If, if they're unique to me.
 105E17_485A: Then timing would be within the summer release.
 Angela Biehl: That's, that was my thought. So I was really curious if anybody else was noticing it. Um, something as simple as adjusting a stage or, um, you know, readability, just things like that on the workflow configuration.
 Angela Biehl: I was getting validation errors for, for the simplest changes. Um, so I was curious. If anybody else had made workflow configuration changes without issue since the release.
 105E17_485A: I've been getting these issues for two years. I don't know. I don't know if it's something to do with any changes.
 105E17_485A: And that's why I left that comment because it was. It really is a rabbit hole because it gives you all those red items that you have to go fix before it lets you move
 Angela Biehl: forward. Yes.
 105E17_485A: But half the time, it's like, you'll just keep going and going and going and it never goes away. So I've learned that the best way to fix that.
 105E17_485A: This is to just put it in an ISIMs ticket, send them a screenshot of what the issue is and then they're, they're going to make the changes for you on the back end.
 Angela Biehl: Yeah, I had redone all our workflow configured, like redid all of those stages and statuses and. In 2022, so ours were really
 105E17_485A: clean
 Angela Biehl: and I wasn't getting errors before and now I am. So I
 105E17_485A: guess. Yeah, I don't really think it's anything to do with you. It's something with that and that whole engine that's running the statuses.
 105E17_485A: good news. Yeah. And yeah, one small change on like maybe a logging group or something like that just like breaks down the entire thing.
 105E17_485A: Got it.
 Angela Biehl: And Alex, if we've got time, I've got one other thing I could cover on this call that I didn't put a comment in on.
 105E17_485A: What? . I just want to add that I know that sometimes I've forgotten about the search locker security rule that impact the changes to work flow.
 105E17_485A: So making sure that you're documenting those and knowing exactly what's impacting what. Um. Rob, do you have anything to add to this issue?
 105E17_485A: Any pointers? We'll see you
 Rob Bursee: Unfortunately, no.
 105E17_485A: Okay. Alright. Oh, sorry. Somebody else?
 Angela Biehl: No, it was me. Apologies. So the other thing was with interview scheduling and our team has been testing a number of different options to try to improve the candidate experience with this.
 Angela Biehl: Yes. Uh, primarily the issue of multiple slots all having different links because we're utilizing the team slot for virtual and onsite interviews so that we always have that team's link because even if a candidate is onsite for our interviews, we'll often have virtual interviewers as part of that panel
 Angela Biehl: and still need to have the link even when they're onsite. So that's working well for us in terms of like that hybrid functionality.
 Angela Biehl: But the issue is that every single slot has its own unique link. And so we recently tested something where we used, um, a generic email that we created, uh, to have its own inbox and calendar and availability and, you know, hiring manager access.
 Angela Biehl: To be able to utilize for interview scheduling as the primary interviewer with the hope that that would mean that if you have the same primary interviewer for each slot, it would be the same link.
 Angela Biehl: Now, here's where it gets interesting, though. So from the- . . . from the interviewer experience, no matter how you set this up, the links are unique and you cannot overlap each other's sessions.
 Angela Biehl: You can't interrupt each other's sessions. Each interviewer has their own link. But from the candidate perspective, when the primary I'm Mary.
 Angela Biehl: The interviewer is the same. It's one link instead of four to seven, depending on the number that you have. And so when we have these, for instance, onsite interviews, it's the situation where if the candidate is in the room and the.
 Angela Biehl: The interviewers aren't in the room, they'd have to join and leave that meeting every time they're talking to somebody new in that room because the interviewers can access it.
 Angela Biehl: From the same link. So. We're testing through with that, but what we ended up doing was creating this extra inbox.
 Angela Biehl: We're using that for every template as our primary interviewer and then adding additional required interviewers. Um, instead of having those tied to the templates just to try to test and work through.
 Angela Biehl: That candidate experience piece of the multiple links. So just wanted to share that in case it's helpful to anybody else that's struggling with multi, multi slot interviews that are complex.
 105E17_485A: Thank you for that. Any thoughts from from anybody else on the call?
 Angela Biehl: Thanks.
 105E17_485A: Alright, thank you Angela. Alright, our next question is from. for all. Um, Cheryl. Cheryl, are you there? Cheryl, I see you.
 105E17_485A: You're muted.
 Cheryl Callaway: That was weird. I'm
 105E17_485A: here.
 Cheryl Callaway: Thank you. Oh, you guys. I picked the wrong thing. I picked video, not audio. Anyhow, uhm, so we were struggling with an eye form, uh, eye form for our interview feedback, for our department interviews, and I was just kind of curious because we were, we started, we were thinking, like, what, what do,
 Cheryl Callaway: what do other people do? So I would love to hear if anybody has, like, a great solution, something that, for the most part, you know, they love, it works for them.
 Cheryl Callaway: Um, you know, maybe there's some challenges, but for the most part it works, regardless if it's If in house, in items with eye forms or feedback forms, or if it's a third party, you know, either integrated or not integrated, just would love to hear what you guys are doing.
 105E17_485A: How are folks handling interview feedback? And Sheryl, you want to talk about these specific challenges here?
 Cheryl Callaway: Yeah, so for us, we have a private recruiting workflow I form, which means it's per person. And the main thing that we're hitting is the fact that we have to assign that form to specific people.
 Cheryl Callaway: So for an example, let's say, um, I send this form to the hiring leader. Hiring leader is out sick, so they forward this email, the, you know, meeting invite or something.
 Cheryl Callaway: Um, to somebody else and says, hey, I'm out sick. Can you handle this interview for me? Well, the interview feedback form won't work because it's not assigned to that person.
 Cheryl Callaway: Um, so by forwarding it, it doesn't do anything, right? And, um, thankfully, just- this is a quick, uh, call out to, um, SAI here.
 Cheryl Callaway: I was able to bring Townsend on a call with us this morning for some ideas, but we still wanted to find out, like, what everybody else does, and if you have a great way to do it.
 Cheryl Callaway: So for us, it's just- mainly, how can we assign this I form without- how do I just, um, automated? Like, automated how to assign this I form, right?
 Cheryl Callaway: So that's the biggest name that we're coming across where we may send out, um. What do you call it? Either people forwarding things or, for example, our high volume area uses a higher view to do self scheduling interviews.
 Cheryl Callaway: Um, and of course that's outside of the system and those emails are sent outside of the system so we can't, you know, include like links from items to it.
 Cheryl Callaway: So, for like those, which happen to be high volume, lots of interviewers, et cetera. Um, it's just not working very well.
 Cheryl Callaway: So, we, you know, we're trying Basically eliminate the need for recruiters to do this manually. And if all of a sudden there's some random interviewer who's taking the place with somebody else, you know, how do we get the I form to them without, you know, I get.
 Cheryl Callaway: I was like, I know how to assign the I forms, but it's just like one more step, right? It's just one more thing.
 Cheryl Callaway: So I wanted to kind of see what everybody else is doing and how you guys are liking it.
 Rachel.Savitt: Hi, Cheryl. I can share a little bit about what we do. Uh, Tanya built it out, so I don't know as much on the back end and she happens to be off today, but I'm sure she'd be more than happy to talk to you separately to give you some insight.
 Rachel.Savitt: Um, we as recruiters, we do assign it. So every time an interview is complete, we move them to interview completed status and it automatically launches, um, the interview completion form to be filled out by whomever did the interview.
 Rachel.Savitt: So we look them up in our system, make sure we assign the appropriate one. And then we can go in there and send it again directly, instead of having to move it to interview completed, if let's say it's a panel interview and we need to get feedback from multiple people.
 Rachel.Savitt: Um, so we're able to do it that way. And I know not too long ago, maybe. And then the most recent update, we can now go in and delete one.
 Rachel.Savitt: So if we send it by mistake, or if that person didn't participate, we can delete it so they don't get the continual reminder emails to fill out the form.
 Rachel.Savitt: And it's a very high level form with no open text box. To save us from any thing inappropriate that a hiring manager might put in there.
 105E17_485A: Is that the
 Cheryl Callaway: feedback? Is that the, um, the new feedback forms or is that using an I form?
 Rachel.Savitt: Um, I, I don't know if Tanya built it out separately as an I form or. It's the same, uh, feedback form that everybody uses.
 105E17_485A: If it's automatically finding your managers in interview schedule, or it's most likely a feedback form.
 Rachel.Savitt: Okay. Yeah, I do know that we do have to look up the manager in there to connect it to them and send it.
 Rachel.Savitt: So it is. It is a manual process for the recruiter. Um, but it's really not as somebody who primarily is recruiting.
 Rachel.Savitt: It takes two seconds to do.
 105E17_485A: It's not like a heavy look. Potentially do it as an I form. As if you did it as an event notification.
 105E17_485A: Um, and you could even, if you worked with higher view, you could potentially even have them trigger it via API.
 105E17_485A: Um, so essentially, if you built an event notification with a link to the recruiting workflow form and had a place on your drop somewhere where the.
 105E17_485A: The interviewers were listed or on the recruiting workflow profile where the interviewers were listed. That's the, the linchpin to this.
 105E17_485A: Um, so if you had a place where the interviewers were selected, you could configure an event notification to find those people and.
 105E17_485A: And then it would automatically send that form to each one of those people as part of an event trigger.
 Cheryl Callaway: Right. Yeah. Um. I think that the only part that we are missing with that one is if somebody forwarded like somebody.
 Cheryl Callaway: I guess we could go and update the. The
 105E17_485A: field. Yeah, you'd have to update the source field to wherever you're putting,
 Cheryl Callaway: listing the
 105E17_485A: interiors. Yeah.
 Ariel Hsieh (she/her): Yeah. This is Ariel from Bienn. I can share what we have. Um, it's, it's mostly automated. Um, if the interviews do go through our paradox integration, um, and it is very similar to what Vivian was saying.
 Ariel Hsieh (she/her): So essentially for a recruiter screen and hiring manager screen, that's when it works the best. Um, because of course, you know, those are those generally all.
 Ariel Hsieh (she/her): They'll tend to go through your paradox because they're easy one on one. Um, and then it'll take the, you know, either a recruiter or the hiring manager on the job.
 Ariel Hsieh (she/her): Um, but what's great is because we have the two way PI integration. Um, if the interviewer changes. So let's say again, like you said, like the hiring manager on the wreck was the one who was originally scheduled in paradox, right?
 Ariel Hsieh (she/her): But then they, um, end up replacing with someone else. Um, in that person. And then, and that's actually rescheduled through paradox directly.
 Ariel Hsieh (she/her): Um, what's great is that. Once the interview is completed, um, paradox sends back into items onto, um, into person profile link fields on the recruiting profile.
 Ariel Hsieh (she/her): Um, the person who actually completed the interview. So that might
 Cheryl Callaway: be
 Ariel Hsieh (she/her): something different than the hiring. I'm gonna draw on the job. And then so once that person is transmitted into that field, um, and it's the same for interview rounds one and two as well.
 Ariel Hsieh (she/her): So we have person profile links for the different interviewers on the job level. So we have, okay, this is the ideal interview team.
 Ariel Hsieh (she/her): That would be interviewing all the candidates on this job. And those are the people that get originally scheduled in paradox, but then over the course of time, scheduling in paradox, like you said, you know, maybe it and one or two people end up getting swapped out.
 Ariel Hsieh (she/her): But whoever actually ends up doing the interview In paradox, those names get sent back over upon the interview completion to another set of, you know, to the interview around one fields on the recruiting workflow profile.
 Ariel Hsieh (she/her): And then, um. And then we have an event notification that triggers at the completed status. So. Thank you that is taking, we have a private items I form for interview feedback and then that's automatically triggered through the event notification at completed to all the people that were listed that are
 Ariel Hsieh (she/her): listed in the recruiting workflow profile fields.
 105E17_485A: So the. Part
 Ariel Hsieh (she/her): of the
 105E17_485A: workflow.
 Ariel Hsieh (she/her): Huh?
 105E17_485A: Does paradox move the workflow to completed
 Ariel Hsieh (she/her): to? Yes, yeah, it
 105E17_485A: does.
 Cheryl Callaway: So it automatically moves. So yeah, it will automatically move the
 Ariel Hsieh (she/her): saddest to scheduled when it gets scheduled and then basically right at the end. Time of whatever the interview schedule slot is, it'll auto update to completed.
 Ariel Hsieh (she/her): So it sends the information over and then at the same time then triggers the event notification. Um, and then you can that too.
 Ariel Hsieh (she/her): And then the pretty much the manual work around is like. If the interview didn't go through paradox, we just say, Hey, recruiter, you have to make sure that you input whoever the interviewers were, whoever you want to provide the feedback forms.
 Ariel Hsieh (she/her): Go put those people in the recruiting work for profile fields and then move the status. And then that way, once you, even when you manually move the status to complete, it will still automatically send the feedback form to whoever was listed in those fields.
 Ariel Hsieh (she/her): So that the manual work around.
 Cheryl Callaway: Right. Oh, wow. Very cool. Yeah, it was pretty well. Like, what kind of, I think we may have to look into this integration with our higher view.
 Cheryl Callaway: Let's see what we can do with that.
 105E17_485A: Yeah, we should be able to do everything Ariel just
 Ariel Hsieh (she/her): said. Yeah, exactly. Because they should just be able to use API and just send
 Cheryl Callaway: back, you
 Ariel Hsieh (she/her): know, whoever was actually the one that did. And the interview and then you shouldn't be needing to, you know, manually adjust that at all.
 Ariel Hsieh (she/her): And then once, once our review sends those names back into the person profile link fields, then the event notification will just trigger automatically.
 Cheryl Callaway: How does, how does paradox know who interviewed?
 Ariel Hsieh (she/her): Um, because they're being scheduled. So they're, everybody's connected.
 Cheryl Callaway: Um, so on calendar box. Yeah. Mm hmm.
 Ariel Hsieh (she/her): So we have a user file and then they're all
 Cheryl Callaway: connected with
 Ariel Hsieh (she/her): their your ideas. And then so it sends back. The IDs
 Cheryl Callaway: at. Got it. Got it. Oh, that's fascinating. Okay. I'm definitely going to have to bring this back to my group.
 Cheryl Callaway: This might be more of a longer term answer.
 Ariel Hsieh (she/her): Yeah,
 105E17_485A: I feel free
 Ariel Hsieh (she/her): to, um, reach out directly if you want more.
 Cheryl Callaway: Thank you.
 105E17_485A: The shorter term answer, Cheryl, is just to put all the fields that you can actually use and build the event notification.
 105E17_485A: You don't need the integration to do that piece.
 Cheryl Callaway: Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And we already have fields like that. I just don't know if it's. Enough. Yeah, I don't know.
 Cheryl Callaway: But then you're going to go there. Sometimes we have too many people interviewing. I'm
 105E17_485A: fascinated, Alex. You mentioned in the chat that work work. They just acquired paradox. So that kind of, that kind of tells you what's going to, what, how they're positioning and, um, what might be coming out in the next work day rise conference and, uh, even next year.
 105E17_485A: I don't know if they'll announce it, uh, at the work day rise conference a couple weeks, but you definitely know what's going to sound like.
 105E17_485A: They're going to announce that. Yeah, you're coming soon. Yeah, I'm thinking you probably see it like the following rise. Here's kind of a quick preview coming in.
 105E17_485A: Yeah. Yeah. We're sure
 Cheryl Callaway: we just need to know if isums is going to acquire something like that.
 105E17_485A: Time will fill. Yeah. Sure. You mentioned that you brought Townsend in, uh, real quick. Kaitlin's going to jump over to expert advisors.
 105E17_485A: Townsend is an I forms mega expert. And so if you'd like to hire Townsend for some spot consulting, you can go to his listing there are expert advisors section and, and bring him in for a consult.
 105E17_485A: Okay, let's go to our next question. Which is Christine Hill, I some spam emails. Christine, you want to unmute and talk, talk us through this one.
 Christine Hill: Hi everyone. Yes, Christine from lettuce. Um, it doesn't happen very often and I. They're just confusing to me. So in this particular case, I have, it's actually me who.
 Christine Hill: I sent this active candidate an email yesterday through the Isim's messaging function inside of his. Inside of his applicant profile inside of the job profile.
 Christine Hill: That's the right way to say that. And he said to me, Oh, I didn't get it. And I said, Okay, well, let me send it and I sent it outside of Isim's.
 Christine Hill: So. This morning, when I came in, uh, to my inbox, so I'm an active user. He and I have been communicating actively, uh, through the messaging and Isim's ATS.
 Christine Hill: And now to dip yesterday, that message was the first time I got. This sort of email spam summary. So, I don't even fully under, I'm sure that I understand the purpose of this.
 Christine Hill: I know that Isim's put a bunch of spam controls and technology into place, but why is this happening? It also happens with some of our active agency context.
 Christine Hill: That are communicating with us and putting information into the system for candidates. They submit and they are also occasionally getting these.
 Christine Hill: So, does anybody have any insight as to why this is happening? And if there's a way to. Kind of knock this out.
 Christine Hill: So, it doesn't have to be a thing when everybody's an active user of the system, if that makes sense.
 105E17_485A: Whenever I've gotten, I've encountered anything like this. Uh, I typically would work directly with our IT. Department that's, that's responsible for something called a firewall.
 105E17_485A: That's the device. And, uh, they would work with us. I know that, uh, like you're saying you're the NYU IT team, not specifically with Isums.
 105E17_485A: We would work well. We partner with Isums if the information on the community, because on the community, there's, there is a lot of information about the IP addresses and what, what your IT team can actually go ahead and, and allow to go through what, what they can use.
 105E17_485A: So there's a, there's a welcome information. If that sort of doesn't work, then we'll actually have. All right. A conversation with, uh, one of their engineers with one of our security engineers to sort it out and they've been able to sort it out.
 105E17_485A: Uh, it's rare that happens where I do see that happen more has to be more on the candidate. If they've got, you know, if Isums has changed anything, it'll show up maybe on a Yahoo or AOL, um, Hotmail, if you've seen that.
 105E17_485A: Not, not, I haven't seen it happen very often in Gmail in the last couple of years since, uh, Isums did some updates.
 Christine Hill: Okay. And I, I'll
 105E17_485A: certainly,
 Christine Hill: I'll get with them. I guess what's surprising to me is that I, this particular candidate and I have messaged easily 15 times prior to this because, like, so maybe that's what it is, right?
 Christine Hill: We've had that much communication. It's like. Suddenly now it's becoming a thing. So I, I guess my mind did not go there, but I will see.
 Christine Hill: Oftentimes my IT guys are like, we don't understand items. We're not sure what you're asking us. So thank you for the insight.
 Christine Hill: I will see
 105E17_485A: what I can do. Real quick. Um. Yeah. I don't think that it is an IT issue. And the only reason I say that is because that email is coming from an ISIMS domain at talent.isims.com.
 Christine Hill: Yeah.
 105E17_485A: So I think that it's something- Thank you. to do with ISIMS. Have you tried to use that button that says report or mark safe to try and mark?
 Christine Hill: Yeah, I can tell you that that minecast, that is our lettuce IT flat. We get that on top of almost every one of our eat.
 Christine Hill: Well, not every email, but. A lot of our emails right when it wants us to kind of teach it how to do it.
 Christine Hill: But again, I'm just still wondering why it's it's being triggered by, by ISIMS system when I've been communicating with this guy for
 105E17_485A: weeks. I sent a email, right? Like, though, you know, apparently we just had an issue with a domain that I know that I wasn't with my clients and those still getting filled out.
 105E17_485A: He issued, they don't even get their emails. I'd say, my first instinct was that it was- probably more IT, but, uhh, I don't know.
 105E17_485A: Hm. Can you- uhh,
 Christine Hill: no, his email's a g-me- his email's a g-mail account, Daniella. I also want to throw out- sorry, this is a show.
 Christine Hill: I also want to throw out that.
 Cheryl Callaway: I've gotten these when, umm, I've sent- I'm not Let's ahead for things in multiples, right? Sometimes. So don't get me wrong, I realize, like, you might not be, but I do know I do get these types of things when I send to multiple people
 Christine Hill: sometimes, and I get these weird spams sometimes. Umm, okay, but
 Cheryl Callaway: I know that when I had this issue, it was more internal.
 Christine Hill: Got it. Alright, well, I'll look at both sides. I just find it ironic that items in the new release won't allow us to copy an email in their profile because they want to.
 Christine Hill: Just to use the system, right, to message and start that email trail. And then now we have spam issues happening.
 Christine Hill: So, okay, I just wanted to pick your guys brain. I appreciate it.
 Ariel Hsieh (she/her): I'll actually
 Christine Hill: do six of it.
 Ariel Hsieh (she/her): Yes, I just want to say they actually did fix that. Um, you have to right click. The email on the overview tab.
 Ariel Hsieh (she/her): If you right click it, you could copy the
 Christine Hill: email. Oh, it is allowing. Okay. Cool. Yeah.
 Ariel Hsieh (she/her): You can't just don't left look at it.
 Christine Hill: Yeah, I remember when it first released all of a kind of a few of us saying like we reached out for ice and support.
 Christine Hill: No, no, no, no. It's supposed to work like that. You know, we want you to message in in ATS or whatever.
 Christine Hill: So, okay. Thank you.
 Ariel Hsieh (she/her): Mm
 105E17_485A: hmm. Great question. Any other thoughts on that issue? Okay. And if not, the floor is open. Who else has a question today?
 105E17_485A: You can just unmute and jump in.
 Ariel Hsieh (she/her): Well, this is Ariel. I'll ask a question. Um, Kristin kind of reminded me, uh, when she mentioned the agency contacts.
 Ariel Hsieh (she/her): Has anyone else experienced their agency contacts having issues with? The two factor authentication trying to log in because we've had ever since they kind of made that mandatory.
 Ariel Hsieh (she/her): We've had a number of agency contacts report issues like it's either that. They are never getting the code. It's sent to wherever they chose or they're inputting the code, but it never works.
 Ariel Hsieh (she/her): And they, like, can't log in. And so sometimes, like, I've heard that, um, if we reset, like, if we- we just update their password to something, it kind of soft resets the account, but that doesn't always work.
 Ariel Hsieh (she/her): Um, so I was just wondering if anybody else has had, uh, agency contacts reporting log in issues with the two facts.
 Ariel Hsieh (she/her): Because there was also a period of time where I thought it wasn't technically required. Um, but a lot of the, like them were saying that they didn't have any option to move forward otherwise.
 Christine Hill: Hi, it's Christina. With lettuce again. Um, I have not had that level of issue, but I have had my agency folks specifically because right?
 Christine Hill: Our companies on an SSO. So we all are set with that. You know, we have that. Double authentication with them.
 Christine Hill: What they've been running into. They run into it. If they haven't submitted people in a little bit, not that it's been super long time, but let's say it's been a month or three weeks or something.
 Christine Hill: And all I could figure. I thought how to do was I literally created a step by step guide to use Google Authenticator or find an authenticator of your own choice.
 Christine Hill: And we send them PDF instruction guide. To be able to, you know, in that way, if they do it in their smartphone, they do it on an authenticator, whether it's Google or otherwise.
 Christine Hill: And you can use Google no matter what email address you have or anything like that. Um, it's always there. So the, what has happened is now when they get that, they go to the guide and they're like, oh, yeah, yeah, let me open the authenticator app and it gives them the code and they pop it right in
 Christine Hill: there. I don't, I'm happy to send it to you. I don't know if that's the same thing. But we have.
 Christine Hill: How did you do any sort of password resets or anything like that?
 Ariel Hsieh (she/her): Oh, yeah. No, that would be great if you wouldn't mind sending it over to me. I can.
 Christine Hill: Yeah, it's nothing fancy. Don't get too excited. It's literally just screen. That's, uh, do this. Go here. This is what your smartphone will look like.
 Christine Hill: Set it up, you know, scan the code that you get on the ICIM screen when it's wanting you to create that, um, that, you know, that double authentication.
 Ariel Hsieh (she/her): No, but that, yeah, I think. That, that could help, though, because, you know, if we just say, hey, like, this is a recommended way.
 Ariel Hsieh (she/her): We, you
 Christine Hill: know,
 Ariel Hsieh (she/her): we recommend to authenticate because, yeah, sometimes it's like, it's all different. They're like, oh, well, I'm not getting it to my phone or I'm not getting it to my email or whatever it is.
 Ariel Hsieh (she/her): Well,
 Christine Hill: I'll just post it on, um, I'll post it on S.A.I. and then anybody who's interested. Again, it's nothing fancy. It's literally just a PDF that we sent to them.
 Ariel Hsieh (she/her): Yeah,
 Christine Hill: of course.
 105E17_485A: Yeah, this, uhm, this, this, this tends to happen a lot because, uhm, ISIMS gives you the options to use different types of authenticators.
 105E17_485A: And where I see the most issues is when people authenticate it to their Microsoft laptops, and then they try to log into ISIMS on a different device like an iPhone, you're not going to be able to authenticate to that Microsoft.
 105E17_485A: Uhh, through there. And so it used to be, ISIMS recently changed this. It used to be that, in order to reset your MFA, you had to have the candidate go and do- the password reset natively.
 105E17_485A: Umm, they recently changed it to where we now have a button, umm, on the profile, the same place where you go to log in as a person, right below it, it says- reset MFA.
 105E17_485A: Umm, and so if you click that, it fixes the problem.
 Ariel Hsieh (she/her): That is super cool. I did not notice that that is a new option.
 105E17_485A: Yes. Because it might be-
 Ariel Hsieh (she/her): Yeah,
 105E17_485A: yeah, because usually- Sorry.
 Ariel Hsieh (she/her): I know
 105E17_485A: that- I was just going to say usually the issue is the person set it up differently than the way they're trying to log in now.
 105E17_485A: Uh, there's- There's no way around that for anybody other than resetting- resetting it or them going to that original authentication source and using that.
 105E17_485A: It's just, you know, that-that reset, the MFA-free-set, is only double in the new U.I. So you have to toggle- if you're using legacy, you have to toggle to the new U.I.
 105E17_485A: and then you'll see. Yeah. Yeah.
 Ariel Hsieh (she/her): Well, luckily. I do use new I.S.N. So that's the one perk, I guess.
 105E17_485A: Also, thank you so much, Paul.
 Ariel Hsieh (she/her): That's super
 105E17_485A: helpful. Yeah. It's super easy to do. Yeah. Anytime there's an issue with that. Uh. Umm, 100% of the time it fixes it.
 105E17_485A: So, because then when they log in, it then prompts them to set up a new MFA. So if they're like on their phone now, they'll get the option to be able to use their phone number instead.
 105E17_485A: I don't have, like, the Microsoft Authenticator. Great. Thank you for the question. Randomly, Ariel, where are you in that picture?
 105E17_485A: That looks so nice. Thanks.
 Ariel Hsieh (she/her): Well, Uhm, I'm in, uh, Yellowstone National Park.
 105E17_485A: Alright, next question. The floor is open. 1. Who else has questions today? you No question too big, no question too small.
 105E17_485A: Sometimes we talk about a lot of advanced topics on here, but if you're new to the group, there's something that you're thinking maybe too simple.
 105E17_485A: Don't hold back.
 Patrick C. IW: I got a quick question. Umm, this is Patrick. Umm, what is the best cadence for getting the uh, source data cleaned up that y'all have found?
 Patrick C. IW: Umm, we're coming up on the end of our AAP year and our source data, It is all over the place and I am really struggling with uh, trying to get a handle on that.
 105E17_485A: How many of your place is your friend? What's this? Find and replace is your friend. So, whenever you get to that level of the spreadsheet situation where you're ready to submit, that source line, I, It would just search for, like, indeed, and you would capture all the indeed.coms and everything else
 105E17_485A: , and just do replace with what you actually want it to be. Umm, alternatively, if you haven't exported yet and you clean up in the system, umm, I would go, through what's been added, or do you allow people to type on your applications?
 Patrick C. IW: We do have, um, one box where it is free text entry, and I'm seeing about 30 different spellings of link.
 Patrick C. IW: And I was talking to the recruiting team. They like, well, what do you want us to do? We got time to properly spell this.
 Patrick C. IW: I'm like, well, I'm going to figure out a way to lock this
 105E17_485A: down. Yeah, remove the ability to type and give them options that limit, that force them to choose the ones that you want limited to.
 105E17_485A: But for cleanup, I would, if you've exported, find a place if you haven't yet, then I would go. In the system and update all the ones, like, you can run a search and see all those kind of outliers and just manually update them or bulk edit them.
 105E17_485A: And then you're. Thank you so much. Um, uh, uhh, another way to approach it is if you have somebody who's comfortable using Power Query, which is part of Excel, um, you can actually program a set of parameters that will automatically find all of the variants.
 105E17_485A: So let's say that you know they were. 10 variations on how Indeed information comes over. You can just run that Power Query and have it fix all of those and click the button slightly more advanced.
 105E17_485A: But I think your original question was about, so we talked about how to. Thank you. I'm at the amount of erroneous data that's already consistent data that's coming through.
 105E17_485A: Your question is about how often do people actually do that, right? So how often are folks going through and cleaning up source data either in the system or externally?
 105E17_485A: really. hmm, hmm. shameless plug for database hygiene. Do it once a quarter. You'll thank me. Yeah, I want to, I want to say I'm doing once a quarter.
 105E17_485A: I'm not. I wish I did. I know it's probably once a year or like, you know, as needed when you kind of discover, wait, how many times?
 105E17_485A: It's very as much as he does it like once a week or something. I used to do weekly. Wow. That's impressive.
 105E17_485A: That's impressive. Is depending on your candidate volume? Yeah. That's not a bad. So do it once a quarter minimum, but if you're somebody that gets like 4,000 applicants a week, yeah, once a week we'll save your sanity.
 105E17_485A: How many employees do you have, Patrick?
 Patrick C. IW: Uh, right now we're. We're less than 200, but we do get quite a few govcon candidates in. And we're really trying to make sure that we narrow down the source of where these candidates are coming from.
 Patrick C. IW: And, um, I've been. In here for about a year and a half and last year, they just said, oh, it's just always been that way.
 Patrick C. IW: Well, a year later, I'm wiser. And I'm like, well, just because it's
 105E17_485A: always been that
 Patrick C. IW: way doesn't really continue being that way. And the recruiters were like. Well, what do we do? I'm like, well, I'm going to lock you down because if you choose job board, I want you to go select what job board did they come from.
 105E17_485A: And also, if you start changing any of those. I highly recommend creating new ones rather than renaming, uh, because job board specifically, like, if you add an indeed or a LinkedIn at the higher level and then go down and try to make it a drop.
 105E17_485A: Down option from job board. Things can get really wonky with reporting on that, too.
 Patrick C. IW: Yeah, I'm building it in the background and I told them once our new AAP gear kicks off on one September, they'll start using those sources.
 105E17_485A: Yeah, and I would also encourage you to talk to whoever does your AP. So I used a firm, uhm, and they would tell us exactly what needed to be in there and I asked them point blank.
 105E17_485A: Like, what are you looking for in this column? And they were. They able to give me a hard list of, like, this is exactly what needs to be there.
 105E17_485A: And then I read my options for the following AP or match those. So it was
 Patrick C. IW: even
 105E17_485A: something I wanted to
 Patrick C. IW: report. Thank you. Yep.
 105E17_485A: Thanks for the question. Patrick. We've got time for maybe one more question today. Actually, I will follow up on the source code because I remember having conversations with, with clients about, like, okay, the source comes in.
 105E17_485A: And umm, let's say it's indeed maybe, okay? But like, the actual true source and being able to really track it back because now there's all, like, multi-layer job sites where this one here, as anyone, umm, and I thought there was some, pretty good career site technology and I thought there was some reporting
 105E17_485A: within, umm, part of the, the ASIM's engine that could really kind of look back and find the pathway. I'm talking about source analytics.
 105E17_485A: I'm talking about source analytics. So, I'm talking about, I guess maybe that's not what Pat's talking about, but I guess it made me think, is any, you know, is that, you know, I think that's really what drives what people invest in for the different job boards and where do I take my recruitment marketing
 105E17_485A: money? Is anybody have a, really good sort of program around that source analytics or that's working slick or you've seen improvement?
 105E17_485A: Because it is something that people are talking about a lot and I'd love to know if anybody in the group has spent any time on that and has some, powerful program that they'd like to show off for a moment.
 105E17_485A: Does anybody on the call use career sites? Or Rob, maybe you can walk us through something. I know something. I know there's some slick stuff that can be done.
 105E17_485A: Um, do you see that as something like, as clients are like, especially not with AI, right? And so now it's like, what can we do?
 105E17_485A: Do now. We need more information. So it kind of, to me, fit in naturally with that. Any, any, sorry to put you on the spot, but comments, thoughts, is this something people are talking about?
 Rob Bursee: I think, you know, we're really boils down to, is it's. It's buckets, right? So there's two different buckets, uh, of how people use source code.
 Rob Bursee: So some customers are leveraging third party platforms like appcast or recruiting or someone else that's actually good. They're going in and coding their UTM codes or hard coding it to make sure that everything is 100% mapped.
 Rob Bursee: And those cases, your configuration is going to be different in your application process because the third party, It's hard coding everything for you and they're giving you pixel tracking codes where they're, It's firing back on the application and the header to your third party in that aspect.
 Rob Bursee: But if you're not using a third party, then the, configurations different in the aspect that, uh, I think somebody else said it, you want to lock down that field where it can't be changed.
 Rob Bursee: Because the job boards are incentivized to get credit for candidates coming, from that job board. So, whether it's indeed, if it's LinkedIn, ZipperKooter, whoever, they want to get credit for the application coming from their job board.
 Rob Bursee: So, they're going to hard code it, but if you leave the field unlocked, where the candidate can change it or the recruiter can change it, that's where you're going to get them overriding.
 Rob Bursee: They're like, oh, yeah, I heard about this through a billboard or something else, you know, and again, they'll write something else and as Patrick, mentioned earlier, you know, you might have the spellings, you know, you get 30 different versions of LinkedIn because they spelled it differently, right
 Rob Bursee: ? So again, you know, it's a matter of how you're set up and who you're partnering with and, again, they're, There's different complexities in all of that pixel tracking and all of that.
 Rob Bursee: So going into track, you know, who started the application to understand at the very end that thank you page of thank you for applying to get that.
 Rob Bursee: Okay, we get a completed application. So, So that's going back to that third party to either app cast or critics or whoever else you're using there.
 Rob Bursee: So. Again, it comes back to your historical setup and did you start that way or did you change or. Hit it along the road, you know, did you stop using or critics or app cast and then you left it unlocked at that point.
 Rob Bursee: So again, there's so many different configuration variations here that. You've got. Different permutations, right? So depending upon how long you've been a customer and where you're going from there and what your initial setup was and what you told.
 Rob Bursee: The team during implementation, so. There's a lot of different options here. So I don't have a good solid, like, right way or wrong way because everybody's going to be different.
 105E17_485A: Okay. Yeah. Does that help? It's perception that source is a single thing and it's not. It's, it's a multiple headed.
 105E17_485A: I draw with many different possible paths to the same end result. So you get questions on the forum on a regular basis.
 105E17_485A: How does everybody do source reporting? Well, how you're getting there is what determines how you're doing it. And it's always different.
 105E17_485A: It's a whole bunch of different potential ways. So, and it's so important too because it really does dictate major spending in your organization and focus and getting that, that answer or maybe kind of revisiting it would be important.
 105E17_485A: I think for.
 Rob Bursee: Yeah, and applications are actual hires. I mean, that's totally different. You know, I go back in my days and not, not to name names, but, you know, a career builder out there, you know, is responsible for driving, you know, 30% of our applicants.
 Rob Bursee: But it was only responsible for 3% that actually got hired. So, again, you know, getting that ROI and going back to, like, Patrick's original question, you know, like, we want to know what's actually producing the hires and we want to invest.
 Rob Bursee: And that's what's actually converting and delivering my talent, right?
 105E17_485A: Absolutely. I wonder if the age of AI and bots, if you're going to see a massive shift in some of that.
 105E17_485A: We should. Yeah. I mean, we should. That's a good. A good use of AI. Uhh, candidate bots, candidates mass. Oh, I thought you meant identifying it.
 105E17_485A: Okay. That's not a good idea. Yeah. I've had that conversation with one client where we were talking about careers. And I was like, if you want to get that reporting and let it actually follow the whole trail, you have to use their career sites.
 105E17_485A: And that conversation. Was really about, like, they wanted to know where people were coming from, but they also, as contrary.
 105E17_485A: I mean, a had to report on that data. So with the whole concept of cookies and tracking and that path, companies don't want to sell that data.
 105E17_485A: So that was a really big. Hold up for them. Putting that script on there. Yeah. So we, another thing we did was we shifted to, um, the source links.
 105E17_485A: So adding in source name is, and that would automatically, like, if a recruiter was reaching out to. Or, it was more of a one off, not for the high volume.
 105E17_485A: Obviously, we couldn't control every version of the link that went out. But if it was the recruiter sending it to someone, they would include exactly where they found that person in that link using the little language formatting thing.
 105E17_485A: Uh, so that's the other thing, too, to consider. Before we close, I just want to call out, uh, Jen's comment, and watching up for use on mobile devices because branding pixels get removed.
 105E17_485A: I'd never- I heard that one. Yeah, so,
 Jennifer Theobald: um, if you are not using, like, I sense career sites, um, and just using the standard portals and using a third party, like, for critics, for- the Apple, they'll give you some great pixels.
 Jennifer Theobald: You plug it into your branding. Well, from a candidate perspective, when you're using a mobile device, having that branding scrape from the page makes the application process a lot easier.
 Jennifer Theobald: And so mobile branding and I- and it's actually scraped that from the page, so those pixels do not fire. Um, and so you have to kind of take it with a grain of salt, because your- your mobile devices, um, may not- I'll see you in actually tell you where that person came from.
 Jennifer Theobald: Uh, when they're applying using mobile, yeah.
 105E17_485A: Yeah, thank you so much for that. Well, we're out of time. Unfortunately, I want to thank Greg again from NYU for hosting our group.
 105E17_485A: 5 3 5 7 today. Thank you so much. Greg, thank you to the R. R. D team coming to New York to do this live.
 105E17_485A: Rob, thanks for being on the call as always. And we will see everybody here same time. Different place. A regular, uh, hopefully remote meeting.
 105E17_485A: Everybody hope you have a restful and restorative weekend. We'll see you next time.