System Admin Insights
A podcast for the humans behind HR tech. We dive into the systems, strategies, and stories that keep talent operations running. Real talk, smart tips, and community for HR system admins who make it all work.
System Admin Insights
iCIMS Hacks: AI, Data, and Admin Challenges
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System Admin Insights kicks off with gratitude and dives into AI trends, app-building frameworks, and real-world iCIMS challenges. From job distribution tools to feedback forms, onboarding, reporting, and data hygiene, this session is packed with practical solutions and lessons for ATS admins.
Well, welcome everybody to system admin insights. Hope you're having a great Friday today. We like to kick off every meeting with a little bit of gratitude.
Unknown Speaker 4:24
Today, I am grateful for Adam traitler. I met up with Adam traitler, got some coffee this morning. He does HR ops work at related industries here in New York City. We had a great conversation about AI and TA analytics and all that good stuff. Caitlin says, next week will be 15 years married to my high school sweetheart.
Unknown Speaker 4:47
That is a beautiful thing. Congratulations. Vivian says, grateful for beautiful spring weather. Indeed. Greg says conferences watching a virtual conference on talent AI and the future cool.
Unknown Speaker 5:00
Greg, what conference is that? I'm curious. It's a live conference actually happening at NYU, with both Sherm tech, Sherm, they call themselves and HR I HRM, and they're bringing people from like Microsoft, Accenture researchers, and they're talking about basically
Unknown Speaker 5:21
what the world of not just AI and genetic AI, but just in analytics when it comes to HR and channel language talent systems, what's going on? And I am seeing right now also a live research that's being displayed by the next generation of students, and it is wild what they're doing, but it's basically answering. They're actually mathematically expressing, and can actually demonstrate, take all your data from whichever system, they're agnostic, and say, you want to be a sales mark, you want to be a sales guru or but right now, you're in you're in public relations. How many hops is that going to take you to do that, and they can actually mathematic express that, but in a way that any AI tool could understand it, and then you can plug it in. So this, they're not even trying to make a business, just showing the research. This has like such potential that it's just wild.
Unknown Speaker 6:15
Yeah, that's fun. So you're watching a recording, or is this something that you're doing live? They're doing it live. They're gonna have a recording so, and they like a pub. So once the recording comes up there, it's available for anyone. So I'll share with the group. You can just listen on the side. Fast forward, some really cool stuff. What I what the big, the big takeaway from this conference I'm seeing right now is they're trying to shift away from doom and gloom, that it's going to be the end of the world, and in terms of, you know, jobs, they are saying that, yes, they're going to be it's going to be a transformation. But they really were about, well, how exactly do you start doing it yourself? So we saw a lot of Claude out there. We saw a lot of chat GPT, a lot of tools,
Unknown Speaker 6:55
a lot of things they're doing live. So someone started building something with it, with with Claude this morning, and it's building it out as we speak, you know, in a very interactive, freestanding dashboard. And the person even like shows their prompts behind the scenes, so you know what they're doing. So it's really cool, really cool. And who's hosting this? Who's sponsoring it? This is New York University. They're sponsoring this with
Unknown Speaker 7:19
tech Sherm and I HRM as well, no kidding. Well, I would love to see that recording, and I'm sure a lot of us would too. So please share, yeah, definitely. Speaking of app development whatnot, if anybody is into that right now, I'm going to share something called the be mad method. The be mad method is a stands for build more architect dreams, and is an AI driven agile development module for the B mad method module ecosystem. It is a comprehensive app development framework. So if anybody is using Cloud code to build apps on the side, it is a great way to learn about technology and having been through some very
Unknown Speaker 8:05
painful experiences myself, and I'm hearing other things from folks who are trying this too. This is a structured way to approach developing your own software, and it basically gives you, gives you a series of agents that walk you through a development process the way that it normally would happen. So if you're at all interested in doing your own experiments with Cloud code or other tools and making your own apps, it's a lot of fun.
Unknown Speaker 8:35
Can also be stressful, but check it out be mad method, all right, so we've got a lot of questions in our forum today. Let me hop on over there.
Unknown Speaker 8:51
All right, and our first question, let me see who's in the room today.
Unknown Speaker 9:00
Christine, you have a question about jobbiac, is that how you say it? Jabiac, oh, yeah, that's it. Yeah, I think we figured it out.
Unknown Speaker 9:13
It so I forget who even answered me, but yes, we know that the XML, the our jobs and items get fed over to Google for jobs. This Joby act tool that we're looking at is basically a way to in the same way that you would sponsor, you know, your indeed ads, or you, you know, do your own Google Ads through my marketing team, or whatever. It's sort of that, but it's going to maximize the visibility. And supposedly we're our ad agencies having really good luck in our industry with this tool. But they know that the instructions that they provide us to like, figure out a Do you want to use an XML fee? Do you want to use all these different methods? And they're so complicated. I mean, I'm not, I'm not like, I.
Unknown Speaker 10:00
You know, Uber, Uber technical, but I can usually figure some stuff out. So the the challenge is, is that we have two ATSs. We don't use isoms career sites, so we're kind of using two feeds from both ATSs and then bringing them to our our lettuce.com
Unknown Speaker 10:17
overall page website that has a come join work for us, part of of our of the site, that's our page, basically. So Anyways, long story short, I don't have any real answers. I think it's going to end up having to be the XML feed process, just for ease of it all, because it's just very complex. And I don't think jabiac is understanding the way we have it set up. Interesting. And to speak to Jessica's point here, you do not have isoms career sites, right? We do not. Okay, got it all right. So have you made progress on this? Would you like folks to weigh in?
Unknown Speaker 10:52
I'm just kind of still in a holding pattern, trying to make sure that job yak understands one final time how we're set up. Meaning they, were talking about a sub domain. Well, our jobs don't actually live on lettuce jobs.com or or that careers page that's part of lettuce.com so I think the ball's in there core. But thank you. I will update if anyone is interested. If I can get to the bottom of it, does anyone else on the call have experience with job yak or something similar like this? No, Vivian,
Unknown Speaker 11:26
any experience in this area? No, okay, all right. Well, Christine, keep us posted on how that goes. Absolutely. Thank you. All right. Michelle, you had a question about feedback forms, access?
Unknown Speaker 11:40
I did thanks
Unknown Speaker 11:42
getting the feedback form onto like a dashboard where an interviewer could go and see their form. I think I have figured that part out, and I know was helpful with with some of that, but where I'm running into a problem is that the people who fill out the forms are interviewers who are not tagged to the job in a particular way. They're not hiring managers.
Unknown Speaker 12:07
They're not associated with the candidates or the rack.
Unknown Speaker 12:11
And so when they get to the dashboard and they can see the icon where the form feedback forms are available, they click on it, and it just errors. If you were to click on the candidate's name and we say you don't have access. And so what I'm trying to figure out is, when an interviewer without that tie to the candidate completes an interview feedback form, is there a way for them to go back later to view it? And so I'm just hoping somebody has figured that out. Yeah, so Michelle, that's what the second widget was for, so that they can just look at their feedback forms that need to be completed or that they if you, if you go to the other picture, this is what a hiring manager can see, where they can see all of the feedback, but this is just a report of, I am the interviewer, and
Unknown Speaker 13:10
that is the, if you, if you keep scrolling down the
Unknown Speaker 13:14
report, filters that you use, are that completed by so then that's going to show me any, not any job, but any feedback form where I'm listed as the interviewer.
Unknown Speaker 13:28
Okay, so I tried it that way, and I still get an error. So there must be some other lock that I'm not haven't figured out yet. So I can, if that works, and they're not somehow tied to the rec or the candidate, then I can go to licenses and say, Where am I locked and have them help me figure that out. So that definitely works for us. I mean, we don't have a lot of search locks in our system, but you can't look at other people's jobs. You have to be listed on the job to see the job, but you can see feedback forms where you where it was sent to you, if the feedback without being Yes, without being listed on the job, okay, yeah, good to know. It just seemed like that might have been the hang up. But if it's working on your side, I may say, hey, this platform and help me figure it out. Thank you. Welcome
Unknown Speaker 14:19
Any other thoughts on that.
Unknown Speaker 14:22
And Michelle, can you describe who are these folks who are being pulled in, and why aren't they tied to the job?
Unknown Speaker 14:29
So our process is typically after the recruiter screens a candidate, the next level would be the hiring manager doing the screening, and if they progress beyond that, there's normally three interviewers who are part of that hiring manager's team, who then have a more extensive interview with the candidate, and they provide their feedback. But those interviewers are not always the same people from one candidate to the next, because we don't want to overload our interview team.
Unknown Speaker 15:00
Them with too many candidates, so we'll kind of batch them, and then they do the review. And so these interviewers change, and they're not tied to the Rec.
Unknown Speaker 15:10
Got it? Thank you. Yeah, anybody else have thoughts on that? All
Unknown Speaker 15:18
right, thank you for the question. Let's see. What else do we have in here? I'm gonna we had a number of other questions that were not tagged as live questions
Unknown Speaker 15:35
Ingrid,
Unknown Speaker 15:37
Alyssa,
Unknown Speaker 15:39
okay, I don't see him on the call, so the floor is open. Who else has a question today?
Unknown Speaker 15:59
No question too big or small.
Unknown Speaker 16:09
Hi, Alex. It's Christine from lettuce. Hi, Christine, um, I am going to be requesting a I form a workflow. I form
Unknown Speaker 16:21
from the isims team, and it's coming out of the interviewing that we do for marketing creative type positions. So for example, a UI designer that we're hiring, we hire graphic designers, and while
Unknown Speaker 16:41
what we've created is basically a agreement would be perfect to send via iPhone to the candidates, which basically says, I understand that as part of the process, I'm being asked to do this project work as part of an evaluation tool to be able to assess my skill set and so forth.
Unknown Speaker 17:03
You know, the graphic design project, if you will, may be longer. There's a there's a field in there that says we anticipate this project taking and we would input, you know, two hours, four hours, whatever it is. So by position, it could vary. So I was just wondering if anybody had any, I any thoughts on what best practice might be for this I form, whether it's one I have an iPhone.
Unknown Speaker 17:32
Oh, Christine, we lost you. Oh, sorry, but I have an iPhone that's created. And as if I'm working on a graphic designer, and I know it's going to be a four hour project. I can input this information somewhere in the eye that I form and then send it to the candidate for their completion. Or is it better to, let's say designate graphic design is going to be four hours and UI will be six hours. I'm just making something up, right? And should I just have two I forms that are specific and locked down and I need the candidate to review and sign? Does anybody have any thoughts on best practice there?
Unknown Speaker 18:15
There's a number of technical ways you could achieve what you're trying to do. Okay? Best practice. This reminds me very much of a form I would build in healthcare all the time, which was like a job description acknowledgement.
Unknown Speaker 18:29
So you're basically asking them to acknowledge that they know that they're going to have to do a project and that it's going to take x number of hours, and it differs based on the kind of job they're interviewing for.
Unknown Speaker 18:41
Yeah,
Unknown Speaker 18:44
they don't get it until such time as they get to the workflow step where they would be issued that project to do. And so it goes along with the project details that can be sent manually. But we're just trying to figure out a way to we want to use the I form tool to collect their signed copy and keep it attached to their workflow in the particular job. But I just wasn't sure if I should just have the the teams overseeing any job that has this form. Okay, graphics is going to be this many. Give me the hours of what you anticipate, so that there's as many of the same I forms, one for graphics, one for UI designer, one for web developer, whatever it might be that's just pre built and it's just being sent to the candidate, because that's what we've deemed as the position is going to the project will take that set number, or if I could just do it as I'm sending it out, oh, this is a graphic designer agreement I'm sending, and I know it's going to take four hours and then send. Does that make sense? Yeah, it makes perfect sense. So two key things to know, if you are having the user fill something out on the form, and it's field based, it's not an acknowledgement form. Acknowledgement forms are something that you can easily build yourself.
Unknown Speaker 20:00
Is within the system. But if you need fields, you either need to sign the waiver and be able to build forms yourself, or you need the help desk to do it for you. With that said, there are on a field based form, on a custom form, there are sections, so you could actually have a section of that form for the recruiter as the first step. So the recruiter's process would be, get the form, edit the form, fill in this project's three hours, this project's two hours, etc,
Unknown Speaker 20:31
and whatever other data. And then you could have dependencies on the form that drive all the other values on the form. So if I select recruition, like interview type one, then it would drive all of the instructions into the form that are appropriate for that kind of interview. Now, level of effort for a dependency for this kind of work, you're probably better to just build two forms. Yeah, just it, I don't see, unless you have a lot of reasons for it being one form, like reporting, would be the only real reason that I would think that you want one form. Other than that two forms is probably going to make your life easier, but the sections method might still apply, where the recruit goes in and edits, because you might get one manager that wants two hours for the project and another that wants three so you're building in some flexibility that way. Yeah?
Unknown Speaker 21:24
So you would have a section on the top of the form that would be the recruiter filled out section we were inviting you, blah, blah, blah. And then the bottom of the form would be whatever the instructions would be for the candidate, and then a signature that they acknowledge that they're going to do it, and so on.
Unknown Speaker 21:40
Yeah, I would probably build two forms. If it's only two use cases. I would build two forms if it's an instance where you've got multiple permutations and there are like, different 5678, then I might consider a dependency. Then reporting on multiple forms would be a little icky,
Unknown Speaker 21:58
but yeah, if it's just two use cases, I build two forms and ask for sections specifically. And the section on the top is assigned to the recruiter. You need to when you're building the form, you need to give them the instruction of who will own what section. Yeah. So the section that is like the number of hours, is the recruiter section, and then the section, and it's by logging group, by the way. So I'm gonna say this login group owns this section, or these login groups own this section, and then the candidate owns the bottom section, or whatever. Okay, that doesn't matter. Okay, perfect. Thank you. I'm
Unknown Speaker 22:36
curious, how are you collecting the work sample?
Unknown Speaker 22:41
Currently? It's being
Unknown Speaker 22:46
returned via email to the hiring manager who's issued it.
Unknown Speaker 22:51
There is no native way to collect it within the form. Yeah, that's where I was going with that. Yeah, you can't do it. Just a fun little note, we tried to do this for a large development customer of mine, and
Unknown Speaker 23:04
the work product was just a snippet of code, and I Sims actively rejects any snippet of code being inserted into an iPhone because it's a potential insertion attack point. So yeah, there's no way to upload a file within an iPhone, and there's no way to upload a file outside of a portal if you're a candidate, so email is really your best way. Got it. Okay? Thank you. Great.
Unknown Speaker 23:31
All right, the floor is open. Who else has a question today? So
Unknown Speaker 23:38
I actually have a more of a practical question. It's just something that's been kind of like, in the back of my mind, I'm hearing all these great vendors that we're going with. People are doing a variety of projects, pulling in data, working with different vendors, but I always feel like I don't know. I'm I have my hands kind of cuffed because
Unknown Speaker 24:02
with other vendors, if I want to integrate something, and, you know, I'll play a flat rate fee, and I'll work with a respective team to integrate it using whatever it could be, an API. Could be some other system with I Sims like, say, for example, let's say the the LinkedIn, HR assistant we said we heard earlier. And let's say I want to do that. I'm like, that's really cool. I want to, and let's say they can integrate with I Sims. And I want to do that. From the LinkedIn point of view. They're like, Hey, you're good. You know, you've paid your subscription. Just follow, just follow these instructions. You're good. When I get to the i Sims end, I've got to, you
Unknown Speaker 24:37
know, based on their model, I got to turn on a connector, and pay for that connector. It's a lot of friction,
Unknown Speaker 24:44
and for those of you who've got you're working with quite a number of different systems, and you're integrating it with isims. How are you getting around all those connectors? Are you just paying for a lot of connectors? Or your teams are coming up with some clever solutions to use?
Unknown Speaker 25:00
Same pipeline, because it's beginning to notice, and leaders are noticing, and they're like, there's all these cool things they want, but there's always a catch at the end. Unfortunately, lately, the catch has been on the ice end from an accounting point of view, and I'm wondering if that's how people be able to get around that. Talk to your sales rep, literally say this exact sentence to your sales rep, be like, we're getting kind of unhappy with being nickel and dime. Is there something we can do in renegotiation to fix our contract, to be more flexible and if you have a good account? Rep, what I've seen done for some of the bigger customers, obviously, Microsoft and Uber, they're not going to put up with
Unknown Speaker 25:40
this, is that there's some flexibility from them on a negotiation perspective, that you can buy a bucket of connectors at a fixed price. So talk to your account rep, tell them, I'm starting to get pushed back on from my leadership about how you guys do things, and it's causing some friction, and we're considering renewal, and it might be something that comes up in renewal. Use that exact sentence with them, and they may be able to negotiate a better price on a package of connectors to give you some flexibility instead of buying them one by one.
Unknown Speaker 26:16
Okay, appreciate that anyone else have experience with
Unknown Speaker 26:26
that, not exactly the same thing, but to
Unknown Speaker 26:29
the point that Vivian made. We had a couple of projects that are ongoing and kind of extended from last year, where we weren't getting a new connector, we were kind of repurposing an old connector, and we we kind of pushed on them a little bit to get a zero cost implementation or zero cost project done. So one example is we've had meal stuff as a mill layer for a lot of things, and we don't like it, so we're getting rid of it to send data to snowflake for our BI team. So in reworking that API, we've got a dedicated resource for my Sims that we didn't actually have to pay anything for.
Unknown Speaker 27:06
Got it so very happy to work with you, because it's a lot easier to work with you than it is to replace you.
Unknown Speaker 27:13
So just keep that in mind when you're working with your account
Unknown Speaker 27:18
rep, and also if you were not the one who negotiated your contract or stood it up. You may have existing connectors out there that aren't doing what they're supposed to be doing, aren't being utilized at all, so it's always worth checking in just to see if you have any that could be repurposed. Yeah, we frequently find that the original contract signer bought one set of things and the person who has replaced them is not fully aware of everything that's in the contract.
Unknown Speaker 27:43
Great advice.
Unknown Speaker 27:47
All right. Thanks for the question. Greg. Who else has questions today? Applause.
Unknown Speaker 28:09
I've got one for Ty Sure. Go ahead. So it's an onboarding ask, is it possible to assign a task to one person, one time, directly?
Unknown Speaker 28:25
Within the onboarding module, not necessarily. You can assign a task to a specific person,
Unknown Speaker 28:33
so
Unknown Speaker 28:35
and then you can go in and a la carte select that task. So don't make the task part of the new hire category.
Unknown Speaker 28:43
Instead, make the task one of the tasks that's pre built, assigned to a specific person, and
Unknown Speaker 28:50
from there, then have the person who's assigning the new hire the onboarding through the onboarding workflow, manually select that specific task a la carte.
Unknown Speaker 29:02
Okay? Yeah, I'm curious what's the nature of the task.
Unknown Speaker 29:06
Just a one off that got missed in a packet, wasn't assigned in the package for this new hire category, and they want to go back and get it. If it's already built and it's already assigned, then all they have to do is go to the onboarding Workflow tab and add a task it's already in there, and then it will go into what the candidate is already filling out. What are the new hires already filling out? Okay, cool. Thank you. It. It might be a little yucky if the reminders are past due, though. So if the task itself is pre configured with like a certain time frame, they'll start getting all kinds of reminders for something they never got. And that might not be a great experience, but okay. Thank you. Thanks. The question, applause.
Unknown Speaker 30:01
Uh, Lauren, what's on your
Unknown Speaker 30:08
mind today? Me, yeah, just working on reporting. I got some great advice, but now I have 300
Unknown Speaker 30:17
candidates to merge. So
Unknown Speaker 30:20
interesting, what's, what's, what sort of reporting and why the merged
Unknown Speaker 30:25
candidates we have.
Unknown Speaker 30:28
So I've just been reporting has been high on my priority list this year, and so I finally got a great source report in the fact that we're using on a weekly basis. And now I'm trying to get rid of all of our duplicate applicants. And are you leaning toward person source or recruiting workflow source as your person source? And why did you make that decision? Because that's how I could figure it out,
Unknown Speaker 30:59
fair enough.
Unknown Speaker 31:01
And how are you handling the taxonomy issues, where things come over in the wrong buckets, like indeed, instead of being job board indeed, it's indeed, and then sub, sub categories of indeed, yeah. So I've kind of we, I made the decision that
Unknown Speaker 31:21
everything was going to go under job board, and I'm just like, manually moving things there so that it kind of can showcase, you know, what actually came from a job board. And then all of our other portals, whether it's external,
Unknown Speaker 31:36
our invitation only, and then, like, internal portals, and then our agency portals, those are kind of the only ones that we really care about. I don't
Unknown Speaker 31:45
just having all of the job boards listed as job board made it simpler to analyze. And are you doing that outside the system, exporting it, doing it that way, or have you found a way? Or are you doing cleanup inside? I'm doing cleanup inside the system. Got it. That's always a pain point is, is there, is there a better way to to go about this?
Unknown Speaker 32:09
So if you're doing more than 300 you can there is an eight merge API. It's available, and you have to specifically request that they turn it on. I had a customer that was trying to merge 5000 records, and they were like, I'm not manually sitting there and going through 5000 records. So they reached out to their account rep, and their account rep got them in touch with somebody who is on the integration side, and they were able to build an API via
Unknown Speaker 32:38
build a merge API, so essentially, they extracted all the records into a data warehouse. Had the data warehouse do the calculations to assume phone number, email, etc, and any records that it deemed on that side based on their defined parameters, were duplicates, it sent back an API call to essentially merge those records in I Sims and so on the
Unknown Speaker 33:04
Data Warehouse side, essentially the data warehouse allowed them to do it a rhythm, rhythmic,
Unknown Speaker 33:11
algorithmically, instead of manual, human intervention, which is something I Sims currently cannot do. So, so does that also clean up the source data, yeah.
Unknown Speaker 33:24
So you can overwrite anything that is exposed to the API, any field and the source field is exposed to the API. Yeah, that's good to know. Does anybody on the call do that cleaning up your source data via a merge API?
Unknown Speaker 33:41
It's not common. I'd be surprised, yeah. So there are features called general access features and features that are not general access. And the merge API was up until about 22 not a general access feature. I think it was built for Microsoft. And so they were the only customer that originally it was either them or Intuit, and they were the only ones that ever used it. And then it came up later on and became something they decided to make more open. It's on the developer site. On the calls for it are on the developer site if you go digging for merge API.
Unknown Speaker 34:15
Very interesting, yeah. But it's not a little lift. You only want to go through this level of effort if you've got a massive number to do, because you've got to build an algorithm in your data warehouse to do all of the decisions about what's emerged and what candidates emerge and whatnot.
Unknown Speaker 34:32
So
Unknown Speaker 34:34
got it?
Unknown Speaker 34:37
Liam, what's on your mind today? Liam, is it
Unknown Speaker 34:42
because I was typing? No, I'm just calling on folks a little quiet today, so
Unknown Speaker 34:50
I was just kind of thinking. And then I was like, as far as, like, cleaning up source data, I know it's not the same as, like, merging candidates, but we've done that through
Unknown Speaker 34:59
recruiting work.
Unknown Speaker 35:00
Flow imports too, because we've gotten a lot of
Unknown Speaker 35:04
especially with indeed, a lot all of our indeed sources originally were coming in as job board, and then source channel was indeed, and then we do it at we do the reporting at the top level. So we we got that corrected with indeed, but then we had a few 100,000 records that we had to go back and and do, which we did through multiple imports, and we just changed all the source data to indeed, from job board through recruiting, workflow imports, and it's worked out great for us. That's great.
Unknown Speaker 35:31
Vivien, have you seen it before? Yeah, that's one of the best ways to do it, especially if you've got a database with lots and lots and lots of people in it. Bulk Edit maxes out at about 5000 records. So if you've got 100,000 records to update and import, is really the best way to do it.
Unknown Speaker 35:49
Very cool.
Unknown Speaker 35:54
We have 3.9 3 million duplicates. So I don't we don't even want to touch him. You're the best candidate for emerge.
Unknown Speaker 36:05
One person in here has 123
Unknown Speaker 36:09
different profiles, same same same name, same phone number, different email addresses. Just hire the person. Terry, come on.
Unknown Speaker 36:20
Throw them a bone.
Unknown Speaker 36:26
It's not something I even want. I don't even open the report. I just look at the number grow.
Unknown Speaker 36:32
Yeah, has that? Has that person become an inside joke with their name?
Unknown Speaker 36:38
It is a joke between the admins, because we're the only ones who see it. But let's be honest, the whole report is a joke between us. It's,
Unknown Speaker 36:50
yeah, it's, it's just way too much.
Unknown Speaker 36:54
Take a look at when I was recruiting pharma sales, we had a persistent applier who even interviewed and actually told at one point I'm sorry, you're just not a fit. We're not going to interview you again. And that person continued to apply. So his name became an inside joke. Internally, we're like, that's up, and I won't say his name because I don't know where he is and what he's doing, and he's a real human being, and I'm not that mean, but it was definitely an inside joke. So that's why I ask that is determination. Yeah, today, it's 3,933,447
Unknown Speaker 37:28
Wow. It'll grow tomorrow.
Unknown Speaker 37:32
Wow. So what's your plan? Plan for dealing with that? You're gonna pivot at all. Are you just gonna? No, we're gonna, we just leave it, you know, I've determined, you know, early on, that we're going to get them and you know, especially with the demographic that we hire between 18 and 24 I mean, you know, like my daughter is in that demographic, and she's got four different email addresses that she uses, so it's just not even,
Unknown Speaker 38:04
not even worth it for us to make the switch, to make the switch, to try to do something with it.
Unknown Speaker 38:10
Greg, how do you handle source, source data inconsistencies? I was just actually, I actually was inspired to just run again the the built in report we have here the same first last name, email. And I thought, you know, it's not gonna have gone popped up that much.
Unknown Speaker 38:27
And while I'm not at Terry's level, I am definitely an honorable I'm definitely at a respectable 654,685
Unknown Speaker 38:36
records,
Unknown Speaker 38:39
which is one of those things where you want it, you want to conquer them, but yeah, you're like, it's not at the top, it's hard. It's not the top priority list, like it would I would like to, if this was one of my To Do lists, I would love to create an API, just even it was one time to clean that out once and for all,
Unknown Speaker 39:02
for source, we, you know, we've, kind of have, we've, we actually don't use, indeed, I think one
Unknown Speaker 39:10
as to apply, I think, well, that's one of the reasons we don't. We've been hearing a lot of stories with the work it's required to clean up.
Unknown Speaker 39:19
So we've actually limited people going to to our portals. We'll market outside of NYU, but we're not, we're not doing that for lots. For some of those reasons, the sourcing has been kind of messed up. We have another third party we use for posting of a lot of stuff, and we get ready to run into that sourcing issue. So we do either periodic cleanup
Unknown Speaker 39:40
for at least our key, our key, big ones that we look, we monitor, and then the rest, we just kind of have to just kind of leave as is, it's kind of, is it? Is it worth the squeeze? Basically,
Unknown Speaker 39:52
that's, that's kind of been at the time, but it's on my wish list to clean through a lot of cleanup, just not enough bandwidth. Well, you know, remind.
Unknown Speaker 40:00
As we have conversation I have with Vivian about
Unknown Speaker 40:03
data hygiene and the business case for what's actually worth cleaning up. I know that I'm very OCD, and sometimes I pursue data hygiene for its as a ends into itself. But Vivian, can you talk about like, what? How do you how do you draw that line? Or how would you make a business case for a data hygiene projects such as this? Is it even worth taking on? If you get hacked and you have that record, and you have that profile, your liability is 180
Unknown Speaker 40:38
times in your case, Terry, because now that person's data has been exposed through 180 different potential hits. So the cyber security argument is the biggest argument. The longer you keep a record, the more opportunities for exposure of you to liability for anything GDPR wise,
Unknown Speaker 41:00
the new artificial intelligence wise, like, if you have that profile, and that profile is sitting dormant in your system, and something happens where you're hacked, or there's an issue, and it becomes publicly known, you have exposed yourself to liability. If you can go back and say, We regularly purge records that are over five years old in our system,
Unknown Speaker 41:22
and therefore your record was five years before you, like, we have no record of you at this point, then you have more of a leg to stand on. As far as the data hygiene piece is concerned, it's also a server and speed issue, the more extra
Unknown Speaker 41:41
people you have in your system. So think about a formula. One of the things I had the fear God drilled into me when I first started working at I Sims about building formulas. One of the folks that had worked there from day one constantly told us, don't build a formula unless you absolutely have to, because it runs on every single record in the system every time it runs. So if you're doing a person field formula, and you have 20 million records of people in your system, that formula is running 20 million times before it calculates, because it's looking for the field variable, plus whatever the formula is looking to do. And so the cleaner your system is the smoother and faster it's going to run. So between those two things, those are my biggest arguments, is exposure to liability. If you don't have the record, you can't necessarily be held liable for anything that happens to the record. And also speed
Unknown Speaker 42:37
and when you're when you're if somebody has to prioritize what they should clean up? Where do they start?
Unknown Speaker 42:46
Perch old stuff, what like legitimately at this point in time,
Unknown Speaker 42:53
if a record is more than two to five years old, it's pointless unless you have
Unknown Speaker 42:59
a specific reporting or compliance reason to be able to report on older information
Unknown Speaker 43:08
for the sake of customer contracts or some other reason. There's really no legitimate reason beyond that to keep a record for more than five years, because the phone number is probably different, the email is probably different, the person's profile is probably no longer relevant unless it's like a super secret squirrel person with a very specific niche. So
Unknown Speaker 43:28
other than being able to say that from a reporting perspective, you have reported on 100,000 candidates over the course of the last five years, or you you've interviewed 100,000 people over the last five years, which most companies are like, Yeah, so what?
Unknown Speaker 43:44
There's really no good
Unknown Speaker 43:46
reason to keep a record beyond five years, in my opinion. So you may have a good one, but in my experience, in my opinion, I have not seen a reason from a cybersecurity perspective and keep a record that old. But I'm a hypocrite because I have every single email I've sent since 2004 so
Unknown Speaker 44:07
take that with a grain of salt.
Unknown Speaker 44:09
Me too,
Unknown Speaker 44:11
we do purge non employee records that have not been updated in four years. Great. Yeah, that's exactly the right
Unknown Speaker 44:22
just whatever your line in the sand is, three years, four years, two years, just do it consistently and do it quarterly or at a measured, specific time. So that if you're ever asked in discovery, why wasn't this purge, you can say, we do it every quarter, and this is, you know, the timeframe, so that you have the ability to defend that
Unknown Speaker 44:41
we do it monthly on the first of every month. Great.
Unknown Speaker 44:46
Well, on that note, we had a customer yesterday who asked me, she said, I wish we could just download Vivian's brain. And I said, I don't think Vivian is going to sign up on your link anytime soon. However, she did write a book.
Unknown Speaker 45:00
It's called from zero to ATS hero, the accidental admins journey and Caitlin's going to grab the screen share, and we'd like to give a free copy of this book to one lucky call attend to the attendee today.
Unknown Speaker 45:19
Congratulate. Congratulations. Lauren esposto
Unknown Speaker 45:24
and Lauren, if you could send your mailing address to Vivian in circle, we will get that book out to you ASAP.
Unknown Speaker 45:36
Did I freeze? Oh, still there. Great. All right, let's see Julia Chan, Mackenzie health, I don't think we've heard from you a while. How are things going
Unknown Speaker 45:46
over there? It's good. It's busy, hoping to launch our onboarding soon and interviews scheduling. So the community has been really helpful, reading some of the posts and some of the concerns that other clients have had. So I think there was one recently about interview scheduling and cyber, cyber security compliance and the integration of calendars. So yeah, have a discussion with our, our IT team about that, and that's kind of ongoing. So, so it's the KRONOS thing that they are
Unknown Speaker 46:18
concerned about.
Unknown Speaker 46:20
I keep saying Chronos. It's two kg Chrono. So I think it's just the integration of our Outlook calendars, like we with our Microsoft accounts and everything. So that wasn't a consideration that we were previously considering. We were just like, oh, yeah, definitely, we can do it. And then, you know, we saw the post come up. So that was helpful. That's great. Congratulations on that rollout. Any any learnings from implementing onboarding that you could share? We're still just in the very early stages of doing that, so we're still just kind of having discussions with our different stakeholder groups right now.
Unknown Speaker 46:55
Any gotchas from folks who have onboarding already active? I
Unknown Speaker 47:05
I will say, and I hope this information isn't out of date, because this is from the last time that I was a sys admin. I remember there was an issue with task dependencies, where if you had a task that had three dependencies, and you had to delete one of them, the the other dependencies would fail, is that still the case?
Unknown Speaker 47:28
Was anybody here actually using onboarding?
Unknown Speaker 47:33
We use the onboarding, but I haven't had to delete any of the
Unknown Speaker 47:38
dependent tasks, so I don't know if it would fail or not, but every we have three tasks that sit at the end that has a dependency, that every other form on top of it has to be completed first, right?
Unknown Speaker 47:56
Any, any words of wisdom. Terry for for Julia, implementing
Unknown Speaker 48:01
onboarding. Make sure you document the new hire categories. We have 226
Unknown Speaker 48:08
of them. Yeah,
Unknown Speaker 48:10
yeah, that's a good one.
Unknown Speaker 48:13
There is a fun little hack, if you absolutely have to have something in a certain order, because you still can't order tasks, but if you absolutely have to have something in a certain order, it goes by the first letter alphabetical. So I have seen customers do like 12345,
Unknown Speaker 48:30
or I, in order to is the beginning name of the task, in order to force an order
Unknown Speaker 48:38
that gets very hard to manage over time, but
Unknown Speaker 48:43
it's a hack.
Unknown Speaker 48:46
But to your point, Alex, if you delete the parent of a dependency tree, you're always going to mess up the dependent children. Yeah,
Unknown Speaker 48:58
all right.
Unknown Speaker 49:00
Well, let's see who else has a question today? Who haven't we heard from
Unknown Speaker 49:07
Jordana?
Unknown Speaker 49:10
And imagine Jordana, what's on your mind?
Unknown Speaker 49:15
Hi, I am. I'm honestly just here to learn and listen. Okay, great, no problem. Thanks for being here.
Unknown Speaker 49:23
Jessica Juarez,
Unknown Speaker 49:28
I'm with Jordan as well. I'm just here to listen and learn. I have been enjoying the thread on
Unknown Speaker 49:37
the site seeing everybody chime in about interview scheduling, because we're also piloting out piloting as well. A lot of conversation about interview scheduling, yeah, and I think Angela Beal was somebody was trying to get a
Unknown Speaker 49:55
group of people together around interview scheduling, and Angela Beal, at some point, she had to reach.
Unknown Speaker 50:00
Schedule. She's going to do it today, I think, but she's going to present on how they're using interview scheduling at ATCC in a month or so. I'll keep everybody up to date on that. Interview scheduling has become the bane of my existence. For some reason in the last I it's one of those things where I was like, this is going to be one of the easiest things to roll out about prime connectors, and it's a tough sell to my security team and I have shared with the advisor business client. I was like, it's not, in this case, it's really not. I since fault, you know, there is, just happens to be
Unknown Speaker 50:36
the third party vendor they're using to do the actual integration. It scares the heck out of certain enterprise security teams.
Unknown Speaker 50:44
I know they work at actively working on it, but
Unknown Speaker 50:48
it's like it's there. It's kind of stuck in the secure review back and forth. So I'm looking forward to seeing what, what, what they're able to do with their vendor, chronify,
Unknown Speaker 50:59
because once they can do that, I can, we can finally connect, and I can start, you know, doing those great so I've met with people here, different people on the team here, and and they have been great showcasing what they can do. And our business wants to do it. It's just been like, from a security point of view, there's been a lot of nervous people with there, but I it has such great potential, and the recruiters really want it, you can really we were looking at other tools, including zoom scheduler, and it's still just the interview scheduler, even if you don't do a lot of bells and whistles, it just really does address a lot of the various efficiency concerns that people have.
Unknown Speaker 51:40
So you said you're also looking at third party tools. We were looking at third parties as an alternative, you know, because it won't, you know. And even in house, our team use it. We're a zoom or a zoom organization, so zoom has a kind of scheduler, but it doesn't integrate with I Sims and there, you know, you know. And there's a lot of things it doesn't do, or it could, you could do, but it's really, really hard to do. That's that's the key. The hard part, we know people aren't, aren't going to do that. So we love the fact that I Sims has that in description tool. We've seen it in action. People are asking for it. So there's a question, not a question that we don't want it. It's really more of like, Can the third party vendor that I Sims use kind of limit the scope of the permissions to address a lot of enterprise security concerns. I know this, that's been a kind of a, you know, we even looked at doing a standalone as well, so we are looking at as a possible contingency. But I'm really, I'm really excited, once we get past permissions issues, to roll it out, because it's not going to be that won't take that long to roll it out. Yeah,
Unknown Speaker 52:45
great.
Unknown Speaker 52:47
Well, before we wrap today, I'd like to share a service that we
Unknown Speaker 52:53
it's a new service called I Sims, ROI blueprint, and this is led by our very own Vivian Larson. We are wrapping up our first engagement in a couple of weeks here with a large financial organization. And it is great for customers who are looking at a renewal decision in particular, or if you just like a fresh set of eyes. It is a five week engagement, eight to 10 meetings across everybody who touches Isom. So both your your rec ops team, it finance and Vivian. What's, what's one thing that you can share from the because, because Vivi and I have both been very deeply involved in this one, what's something that you think is really, really great that stands out about this process?
Unknown Speaker 53:39
So what gets measured gets improved, is basically the whole point of the engagement. A lot of the folks that we talked about doing ROI advising have really learned that their system has stagnated, and that processes that shadow processes are starting to kind of bubble up around the system that are not documented in isims, so they can't really get a lot of value from the system from a tracking perspective, because there's a lot of stuff that's going on outside the system, and that just happens organically and can snowball. So one of the things that I find is really helpful about doing this kind of work and doing just a quick kick of the tires to see if everything you have in contract is actually benefiting you in any way, and if there's some potential tweaks, is that we almost always find something that's a gotcha or you did not know, like your data table could be more effectively organized to do what you're achieving trying to achieve that. One's probably the biggest gotcha consistently where clients can't organize their system the way they want to organize it, because the data foundation just isn't there. So overall, it's a good way for folks to just have a quick second set of eyes look at the system.
Unknown Speaker 55:00
And give thoughts and suggestions for how it could be improved. And overall, it's something that I think organizations should make a habit of doing on a regular basis, at least once every three or four years, because you inherit a lot of tech debt when you inherit a system like this. There's a lot of configurations decisions that might have been made before you were the admin, or if you did make them, your process and system has evolved
Unknown Speaker 55:25
ATS systems need to evolve with your organization, but a lot of times they're very overlooked because they're very under resourced. So it's a good way to give yourself some additional eyes to see what the possibilities are. Thank you. So if you'd like to know more about that, just drop me a line. We can talk through it. There any other questions today? And if
Unknown Speaker 55:47
not, I
Unknown Speaker 55:48
hope everybody has a restful and restorative weekend. We'll see you here next week, same time, same place. Take care. Everybody.
Unknown Speaker 55:55
Bye.
Unknown Speaker 55:57
Take care. You.