iCIMS Hacks: AI Risk & ATS Compliance (5/8/26)

This episode dives into the growing legal and compliance risks surrounding AI in ATS platforms, including Workday litigation, ADA implications for applicants, knockout questions, GDPR challenges, AI consent tracking, and evolving data privacy concerns. Plus: hiring automation updates, AI recruiting workflows, and practical iCIMS admin tips from the community.

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Transcript

Speaker 1  0:00  
Welcome everybody to system admin insights. It is a beautiful may Friday afternoon. We're happy to see everybody as always. We like to kick off the meeting with a little bit of gratitude. Please share one thing that you are grateful for in chat today. I am grateful for the amazing IRD team doing some incredible work over here, putting the fine finishing touches on our isoms ROI blueprint for a large customer, and we're helping them figure out how to get the most value out of isoms, whether to stay or go, answering all those deep questions, and the deliverables just look beautiful. So thank you rd team. Patrick says, grateful with working with marketing and TA team this week and launching two automated campaigns in CxM. Glad to hear it. You know, we a lot of customers have CxM and don't exactly know how to get the most value out of it. So really cool. Yeah, we'd love to hear more about that. Vivian says, I'm grateful for the beautiful weather the past few days. Indeed, colors of May says Milena. Greg says, got cost you. Number one for San Diego Comic Con, awesome. What is it, Greg, you can tell us you're muted.

Speaker 2  1:18  
I'm gonna, well, this one I brought is going to be what I call Mario geek chic. So special suits. But I have another costume I'm actually work. I'm going to be get working on over the next, next month. So they'll be, I'll be ready for that. Yeah, it's going to be a five days, pretty much of just different sets to wear.

Speaker 1  1:39  
Oh, so you bring in multiple costumes.

Speaker 2  1:41  
Oh yeah, yeah. This is, like,

Speaker 3  1:43  
this

Speaker 1  1:43  
is an option.

Speaker 2  1:44  
I mean, I might wear some civilian wear day two here, but the I'm going straight in with all my diverse outfits ready to go.

Speaker 4  1:52  
Greg doesn't play when it comes to the cons. Take

Speaker 2  1:54  
it to New York Comic Con. I'm gonna be up for sale in just a few weeks, so you got to start getting ready. Well,

Speaker 5  2:01  
Greg's also representing New York, right? So, like he's got to do it, right? Nice. Caitlin says her son got gets his first visit from the tooth fairy tonight. Very exciting. Townsend. I'm grateful for my new mattress. It's amazing the difference a good mattress makes, indeed, very true. All right, so, Vivian, you have some connectivity issues earlier. Do you want to do our work day talk? Or do you want to push that the next week and we'll do general questions? It's just so we can do the work day talk. Okay, I don't know if everybody saw the article that I posted about two or three weeks ago at this point about the ongoing litigation around work day and AI, but it was we created a circle post. I also created an article, and then I also posted that article on LinkedIn. So if you want a deeper dive on the topic, go ahead and read them, and we'll leave some of the links in our content here. But what I want to talk about is the big finding, and the finding I want to make sure everybody is aware of is that the changes that a federal ruling just stated that a DEA protections apply to applicants and not just employees. So if you think about that from a configuration perspective, essentially this law, this ruling, which has not gone to the Supreme Court, so it may change, but this ruling has stated that we ATS administrators now need to be conscious of the fact that the folks who are applying to our jobs, according to this may technically have the same kind of protections as employees do. The general consensus, consensus that I've always moved towards is that employees were under one set of laws and applicants were not necessarily subject to the same set of rules in not necessarily in the same vein. I mean age discrimination, disability, all of that was always on our radar. But this is basically applying anything that's an ad EA protection, if you are an applicant, it has the same weight as if you were an employee. So I wanted to kind of throw that out to the group and discuss and see how all of you were handling this, if you were aware of it, if it was on your radar. So,

Speaker 1  4:21  
right, go ahead.

Speaker 2  4:22  
Yeah, I think it just kind of reaffirms. I mean, I'm from New York University, so based within New York City and New York State, we've also had additional requirements that have been around for years. So anybody who's worked in New York State, who works in New York State, they kind of know that they've got to do a variety of different additional things that we have to put into place. So for the past few years, we've already, and those who did the audit last year with us, they kind of saw you have, you know we have to put front and center. You know, if you require an accommodation, if there's any assistance you need, you know they don't have to necessarily veil to us. Personally what that challenge is, but there's a team they can reach out to directly, who they can express their concerns or challenges, and they that that team would guide us, our digital accessibility team right at NYU is an internal team that we have in I Central. It they are. They actually have tools that will constantly go in and assess what our needs are. In fact, actually, we're doing that with our interview scheduling module. One of the things that we can't turn it on until that team has reviewed it, but one of the things we also have to do is we make it as a point is every time the candy our candidates apply, we have to constantly remind them, hey, if you've got if you need an accommodation, if you have a if you if you feel you need to speak to someone, if you feel your your experience is not meeting your need. Our experience is not meeting your needs here as you reach out to us, constantly being thrown out there, and we've got multiple teams having to guide us that that we're not making the decision experts are guiding us in those decisions that's been around for you. So I'm wondering if those in New York who are based in New York City, New York State, may not be as we might be as aware of the work they really but I think we might already, we might be in a better place compared to other other areas, just simply because of the laws that have been around, because those laws definitely surpass what the Feds want.

Speaker 5  6:25  
That is good to know. That's great feedback. The place where it specifically calls out in some of the rulings that people want to be very careful around is in screening and knockout questions. Specifically, because those screening and knockout questions apply the same weight as if you were making a decision about a current employee. So that's one of the things that really kind of struck me about the ruling. Screening questions have always been kind of a general, generally accepted way before AI and any kind of algorithmic removal was common, screening questions and knockouts was always something that every ATS I've ever worked in was just a generally accepted practice, and this, at least the way that the ruling is written, makes that a potential legal risk for you to use any kind of knockouts. So has anybody? Does anybody here heavily use knockout questions in their initial screening?

Speaker 2  7:31  
When you mean knockout questions, you say questions that were automatically qualified or simply a screening question, like yes or no? Do you have a driver's license and they continue

Speaker 6  7:39  
where

Speaker 5  7:40  
it's automatically applied. Patrick, you have your hand up.

Speaker 7  7:44  
We have knockout questions because of the work that we have being in the cleared environment, such as you know, are you a US citizen? Do you have or can you obtain tssci clearance? Is this something that potentially, because I've talked about this article and this ruling with my TA team, and they're like, We have to have these knockout questions, or everyone's going to be potentially qualified. Is that something like, because that's one of the main knockout questions that we have is, you know, if you can't obtain a clearance, you're automatically DQ. I mean, it doesn't matter what your skill set is. You can't get a clearance, then you will not qualify for this job.

Speaker 5  8:24  
Yeah, that one is kind of a very black and white case to me. I would definitely consult with your legal team on it, but I don't see how that would apply in the same sense that the the actual ruling is regarding Ada and the ADA legislation like whether someone is pregnant or whether someone is over the age of 40, or whether someone has a disability of any kind. So I don't honestly think, in my opinion, that that particular instance is an example of where this might come into play, where I think you might see more of that, or at least in my interpretation of it, is in some of the questions around, can you lift five pounds, or can you lift 20 pounds? Are you capable of standing on your feet for eight hours? Like those kinds of questions as knockout questions, I think will be more along the lines of what they're talking about, potentially being a gray area from an ADA discrimination perspective, if they're used as a knockout,

Speaker 7  9:27  
okay,

Speaker 5  9:27  
I've seen a lot of those. But again, I'm not a legal advisor here. I just pay attention to this stuff.

Speaker 6  9:32  
Yeah,

Speaker 5  9:33  
definitely ask a lawyer. But yeah, that's the way that I'm interpreting it, is that it's it's more anything that could bump up against any kind of a DEA discrimination. So has anybody else got this on their radar and making any kinds of plans around it?

Speaker 1  9:56  
I mean, I'm reminded just of the scope and I. Liability that happens with any any non US candidate coming into your ATS, triggering larger GDPR considerations?

Speaker 6  10:10  
Oh,

Speaker 1  10:10  
yeah, that seems to be the trend.

Speaker 5  10:12  
Yeah. So that's a second article that I've written recently. We were recently reminded that the ongoing question ever since GDPR came out that I was constantly pushing back on as an implementation Manager, which is that if you are in the United States, GDPR does still apply to you. Is something that I'd also just ask everybody to take a look at. If you haven't it does apply to you. And there's actually not just GDPR anymore. There's a whole host of other laws that are starting to come up, one of them, most recently, having to do with biometric information. So I don't know, a while back we were talking about the whole AI verification of whether someone's a person and waving on the screen. We're getting off topic here, but waving like that, that biometric piece of just making sure that someone is a real human being. There's a whole host of laws out there that are actually regulating how you can gather biometric data on people, and they're pretty darn strict. So there's another, another article on the blog about that, if you want to deep dive into that topic. But kind of back to the workday piece. One of the things that's also important for everybody to keep an eye on, because it's a topic that does affect all of us in what we do. It's directly affected to the applicant tracking portion of Workday and AI and all of our leadership pushing us to use AI more and more in our daily practice. I would actually use this piece of Workday as kind of a caution or a pushback when the heavy pressure about using AI is being applied, because there are several other running lawsuits that are part of the workday litigation that is still in flight. So essentially, the overall court decision around the ADEA one has already happened in regards to this particular piece, but there are, there are a number of other rulings that civil lawsuits are happening. I don't actually have them listed in the article. I can list them in a different place where I've seen them, but essentially, it's an ongoing piece of legislation. They expect years worth of time to be until we've finally fully settled it. And so Are any of you? Is anybody else kind of paying attention to what this means for our overall industry? On the on the call? Now, a couple of the folks I follow are, it's how I found out. But

Speaker 6  12:35  
well,

Speaker 2  12:38  
isn't there? I mean, there's different, different conversations even before, even before this went to litigation. Of it, you know, should AI be treated like just any other recruiter? You know, when AI does? If, when I we use any algorithm to or any AI to make, to disposition or auto screen or to basically source the individual help you source, even if there's a human involved in selecting the final candidate, there's a lot of there's been a lot of conversations about, well, regardless that AI is going to be treated as an employee, is gonna be treated like a recruiter, which means there's gonna be they have that AI also has to follow the same protocols and some reporting requirements, especially for a government contractor, so we can't just decide, well, you know, the AI did it, so I, you know, we're kind of absolved of those requirements, or those report requirements, or was auditing? Nope. I mean, there's a lot of conversation, especially at the local level, where you're beginning to see that kind of bubble up, some as laws, and some as just, you know, additional pressure that could be the local chambers, local local business chamber level, that could be at up to the state, state senate level, but you're beginning to see this now ask the question, where is the AI, sit with the employer, right as you use that tool, you know, if you're using it for an assessment, are you using it for an applicant tracking system? You know if it's going to, if it's going to impact that person, the other side, what then becomes the legal requirements of that employer. Because if I was a human being, I would have had some some there would be repercussions. But we, we can't just let the AI, according to some, get away with just being considered just a tool. So it's interesting how some people are saying, What's a tool. In other cases, they're trying to treat it as an employee, like entity.

Speaker 5  14:41  
And one of the other pieces of legislation that's also kind of along the same topic is the legislation against eightfold. So eightfold is also being sued. There's a class action suit against them regarding the fact that they scored applicants on a zero to five scale and discarded the ranked candidate. Edits before human ever saw their application, all without disclosures required by the FRC, FCRA, so fair credit reporting act. So that piece of legislation is also kind of an ongoing piece of legislation in this sphere. So there's a number of different things. There's one against XM Radio, like, there's a number of different lawsuits that are out there at the moment in this space that will all potentially have some implications on configuration decisions on our side moving forward. So it's an interesting time to be doing this in particular, because the landscape changes quite frequently. This that lawsuit just actually was filed in January of this year, the eightfold one. So if you haven't heard of it, it's rush off the presses essentially

Speaker 1  15:47  
one. One question that I have is, is anybody using a third party firm to assess liability and exposure around these issues? Because this is a lot for an internal GC to keep track of if there is a firm out there that is doing this type of work, we'd love to hear about it, because we would like to to connect our customers and our community members with with a trustworthy resource. So if you, if you know of something like that, please send me a message and let me

Speaker 6  16:17  
know.

Speaker 1  16:20  
Okay, thank you, Vivian, and we'll now turn it over to our questions. I'll go over to do here we go. And by the way, I got a couple of notes. So since we moved this back to zoom, I turned on authentication. You have to be authenticated in zoom to join the call, and unfortunately, a couple people couldn't join because of that, so we will revisit that. Apologies. So we've got a question from Jessica and from Michelle. I don't see Jessica, so Michelle, you're up.

Speaker 3  16:53  
Yeah, thanks. I think I've got my answer from Cheryl. We're finally getting to the point of getting our job descriptions to automatically pull in the salary information into a text block. That's boilerplate, and it's either based off an annual salary or an hourly salary, salary. And I just am trying to make sure that when I since creates a formula field, it's going to inherit the branding of the career site, I was having real difficulty getting a straight answer from I Sims rep working on those formula fields for me, but Cheryl said career sites should control this, and that's what I was thinking, and kind of not what the this rep said. But almost said, No, it's good to get her confirmation. Hopefully this is Cheryl. It's gonna work right.

Speaker 8  17:47  
Fingers crossed. Yeah, this is Cheryl. I just want to throw out there that career sites basically controls all of your your formatting and your branding, so like some of our stuff on within the ATS, looks really bad, but career sites just goes, we don't care. We're just going to format it the way you actually want it to be formatted. So I've seen a lot of random weird things, like different sized fonts, different types of fonts within a job description field, and it looks perfectly fine in career sites. So I feel like

Speaker 3  18:17  
it

Speaker 8  18:17  
should be like you should be able to just control that with career sites. And

Speaker 5  18:21  
just for anyone who doesn't have career sites, you can overcome the issue that you're experiencing by hitting paste as text when you copy and paste into the job description field. Because, for some stupid reason, I Sims version of HTML doesn't coincide with words version of HTML. They're slightly different versions of HTML. So when you copy and paste from Word I Sims reads the back end, coding of the format wrong. So if you click paste as text, it strips that out. And then what should happen is that it should adopt whatever the primary font on your portal is, and ignore whatever font the pasted font is so there's a little paste is text button in the text box that should help that.

Speaker 3  19:16  
Thank you. Everyone.

Speaker 1  19:18  
Great. Good to go. Michelle,

Speaker 6  19:20  
yeah,

Speaker 1  19:21  
all right, fantastic. Let's see. Just got a call? Nope. Janet Nunez, I think this is your first time on a call. Would you like to say hello? You have any questions

Speaker 6  19:32  
for us today?

Speaker 9  19:33  
Hello? Yes, first time on the call. No questions as of now,

Speaker 1  19:37  
okay, thank you so much for joining us. All right, the floor is open. Who else has a question today? As always, no question too big or small, too simple or complex?

Speaker 3  20:07  
I have another one

Speaker 1  20:08  
Sure. Go right ahead.

Speaker 3  20:10  
So looking at consent, and this is from the standpoint of using marketing CRM for marketing, we're not capturing consent in the ATS. We're operating under legitimate interest as the basis for doing business and communicating with candidates, collecting their personal information. But I understand that direct marketing doesn't fall under that same umbrella I'll call it. And so I'm wondering if there's a way to capture the consent through the application process that will feed to the CRM in such a way that we can look at like history of when did they consent and know when we need to get rid of their profiles after that period of time expires when we're deleting profiles, so just not sure how to do one without the other.

Speaker 1  21:17  
That's a really good question. How to audit consent and I Sims, has anybody done that?

Speaker 5  21:25  
There is a way within the personal data requests, if you're using the standard GDPR to figure out when they gave consent, it's part of the standard reports. But the question of how to get that information in the standard setup over to CRM, I don't know the answer to, can you, and this is I have not played with with CRM. Does anybody know if you can bring a custom field over as part of your mapping?

Speaker 3  21:52  
I know that CRM will accept tags. I don't know about the custom field, but tags was one approach that someone suggested.

Speaker 8  22:01  
Custom fields are not bi directional yet. They keep talking about it, though. Gotcha, that would be a solution to this, but it's

Speaker 1  22:10  
that was my guess. That was my guess. Yeah. What about AI consent?

Speaker 6  22:15  
I We

Speaker 3  22:24  
haven't turned that one on yet because we're not using AI in the platform,

Speaker 5  22:29  
using it anywhere in your recruiting process,

Speaker 3  22:33  
yeah, we're looking at how we're using it. It's copilot scores, writing assessments. So that's the one spot that we have it in currently.

Speaker 5  22:45  
So according to the new law in the EU, if you touch any EU candidates and you have any AI in your process, you're going to want to have that documented,

Speaker 3  22:54  
right? Yeah, I've been, I've been in that rabbit hole. To you, Vivian, and

Speaker 1  23:01  
Vivian, is there a way to report on that

Speaker 5  23:04  
at the current moment? I don't believe there is. I think we've had that conversation with Rob. Rob Are you on the call?

Speaker 1  23:10  
Don't think Rob's on the call. I

Speaker 5  23:12  
think we've had that conversation with him about whether that's on their radar or not. Or I've had that conversation with some of my former co workers over there, and I don't honestly know that they're currently working on a way for them to report on where AI has been touched, yet that law just kind of came up out of nowhere and didn't give anybody any time to prepare for it, and then it was retroactive.

Speaker 1  23:35  
Yeah. And another thing that we discovered recently is that sometimes vendors will be collecting their own AI consent or not even be aware. So, so we found a vendor that was not aware of isims ai consent collection mechanism, and so the two weren't speaking to each other. And so if a customer brings on a product that is AI, but the candidate has not consented to AI and isims, the third party product, may still be giving them AI treatment as though they had consented. So that's something to be Be careful about. Never a dull moment with AI. All right? Danielle, thank you for the question. Go ahead, please.

Speaker 3  24:21  
It's Michelle again, so

Speaker 1  24:22  
I'm sorry, Michelle,

Speaker 3  24:23  
kind of carrying it one piece further when we're ready to remove old candidates from the system. Since we don't have GDPR collecting a consent date, I'm just going to go by application date, but they may have applied 10 times over the course of six years, and I only want to delete the applications that are older than at this point, it's four years or policy, and I haven't figured out how to isolate and delete the information for the job and. Not the candidate, since they still have other jobs that are not within that timeframe. Does that make any sense?

Speaker 5  25:11  
You're trying to purge job records, but not purge the recruiting workflow information.

Speaker 3  25:16  
Purge the recruiting workflow information, but not the person profile information, since it needs to be tied to other recruiting workflows that are still current,

Speaker 5  25:26  
I think if you purchase the job by itself, it will get rid of the

Speaker 3  25:30  
recruiting

Speaker 5  25:31  
workflow. Yeah,

Speaker 10  25:33  
okay.

Speaker 11  25:34  
We have a similar issue with candidates who have applied for both jobs based in the EU, as well as jobs based in the US or other geographies, and we are interested in keeping their workflows that are non European. So for for this process, we use the multiple applications indicator, and unfortunately, it's a manual process where you have to go, hop on the candidates person profile, see what workflows they have, and then disassociate the ones that are the European ones, while leaving the non European ones. So it might address your question, Michelle, in terms of keeping some workflows that are, you know, more recent?

Speaker 3  26:32  
Yeah, I did think of that, but figuring it's a manual process, and that sounds horrible.

Speaker 11  26:37  
I mean, I think it depends on your volume. We set up one of our interns, usually to do this, or, you know, someone who has time on their hands, it takes hours, I would say for us, maybe Europe is not such a huge volume. And the you know, candidates who have multiple applications, who have applied within a certain timeframe and have a one of them is European, are a manageable number. So we do this once a year, and it is reasonable, manual, but reasonable, I would say,

Speaker 3  27:12  
Okay, no, I think purging the job probably would be the easiest route to go. Okay, thank you.

Speaker 2  27:19  
So it is an interesting situation, because we actually, we, I had somebody, for example, just just at their day, they're a US based candidate, but they only apply to Abu Dhabi jobs. And Abu Dhabi has their has their version of GDPR. And when we looked at that, we were like, Well, we think this person may apply to another job, but they're also based in the US what goes and so what we had to do was kind of go back to our privacy team and our lawyers and say, well, which wins out. So this is where I think it's good conversations we're having now, because you're going to have these multiple conflicts and have them say, Well, if I have a situation where I have someone who is a European who also applied to a US job, and you have, you have to do say, government con, you're a government contractor, there are certain things you also have to align to as well. Plus you will have your overarching What is your, what is your, what is your data retention policy? So this is where, like, the lawyers can hash out in advance, sort of saying, Okay, this is what wins out. This would has to this or, or, or we go by the most recent date regardless. So if you're doing an annual purge or quarter the purge, how you redo it? You know your team would advise you, okay, take a even if they apply to jobs in these parts of world, just to cover ourselves, we're going to look at this date of their act, of their app, their application date, regardless of a job, and that's what wins out. And we'll purge. Be careful purging jobs, though. I mean, you could do it, but you might purging the individuals might be the better route, according to your legal counsel, plus purging jobs, could have an unintended consequence if you're not careful. So I would say, if you haven't had that, if your teams haven't had that conversation, whoever your equivalent of a privacy team or general counsel, these are the kind of things you want to play on their radar. They can start working out those scenarios, because it's going to take them a few months to sort that out, especially with the new laws, come the new AI law, and ask themselves, which is going to win out if you have that structure and they build a matrix for you, or at least, you know of what their advice is, it will save you a lot of back and forth and trying to decide what goes because there's me. Because the thing is, you might act, you might purge one thing and think you're okay and not purge something else, but not realize you might have walked in and accidentally set your organization up to being subject to another law. So this is where the law this is where their general counsel will and privacy teams. This is where they definitely earn their keep, right, right? With those scenarios,

Speaker 3  29:53  
good point. Greg, yeah, we're actually in the process of hiring someone for data privacy, so that will be our first. And that I can have in house to turn to for help with questions like this. But does anyone know if you're using the GDPR time based consent and you just have that automated to purge at a certain point, how does it touch person profile if there's a candidate with multiple jobs and only some of them are past that data retention point.

Speaker 5  30:25  
So the way the time based consent, and this is something I'll go back to in the documentation, but the way I understand the time based consent to work is that it's based off of the most recent consent given. So if I am a candidate, and I have applied to six jobs since, it will go back to whatever the date was that I gave consent, there should be an option on their dashboard for them to manage their consent. So I've seen some customers actually send out, kind of like a reminder email to everyone that is getting to that consent date. Hey, your consent is about to expire, and we will delete your profile as requested. If you're in flight for other jobs, please go in and manage your consent. I've seen that kind of a different way of using the consent, the personal data exports reports that are in the standard reporting for GDPR,

Speaker 3  31:26  
because if they didn't do that, would it delete their profile and mess up anything in current process?

Speaker 5  31:33  
It would anonymize the way that I understand it when, and this could be a setting, but the way that I understand that, please correct me if I'm wrong, everybody. But the way that understand GDPR is set up in I Sims to work is that it doesn't completely delete the information, because then you would lose all of the ability to report properly. It anonymizes their profile so that you can no longer say Joe Smith is the person that it was looking at. You can just simply say there were 30 applicants to their this job, and Joe Smith is included in that number. So data anonymization is definitely a feature. I don't know if it's a feature you have to turn on, or if it's on by default.

Speaker 3  32:14  
Think you have to turn it on. So many nuances to all this. All right. Well, thank you. Good info. All

Speaker 1  32:26  
right, thank you for the question. Brian Johnson, Brian,

Speaker 6  32:30  
I don't

Speaker 1  32:30  
think we've seen you on a call before. How you doing today?

Speaker 12  32:33  
Pretty good. Yes, this is my first time here.

Speaker 1  32:35  
Welcome. You're with oceans healthcare. Is

Speaker 6  32:37  
that

Speaker 12  32:38  
right? No, I'm actually with UC Irvine.

Speaker 1  32:40  
Oh, okay, great, different Brian Johnson,

Speaker 6  32:42  
got it.

Speaker 1  32:43  
Welcome any questions for the group today?

Speaker 12  32:46  
I'm not at this point, no, but I'm pretty sure I will in the future.

Speaker 1  32:50  
All right, fantastic. Thanks for joining

Speaker 6  32:52  
us. No

Speaker 12  32:52  
problem. Thank you.

Speaker 1  32:54  
All right, Patrick, what have you been up to lately?

Speaker 7  33:02  
Well, this week, I posted that question on the board, and I kind of got my answer of what I needed. One of the things that we're using with the CxM is we're doing an alumni reach back program to kind of open some other sourcing lanes for talent. And that's when I realized that former employees their personal email address. Once we fully gain them to our HR system, between the data bridge connection, it wipes out their personal email address and replaces it with their work email address. So the recruiters were letting me know, hey, we unless we go into each resume, we don't know what their personal email address is. Was that? Well, we have a record of it in the HR system. So instead of messing with the data bridge connection, which the IT department definitely did not want us to mess with, we just created a second custom field for personal email going forward. That way, whenever we do complete the hire on someone on the Employee Details tab, we capture their personal email for future reference going forward. So that was a interesting thing that came across this week about, you know, personal emails getting wiped out from the data bridge connection. And I want to know anybody else ever has that issue before. Yeah,

Speaker 13  34:25  
so I've had that issue in Workday and UKG, but not ADP. I haven't, haven't used it for that in ADP, but I did have to come up with a solution for that in both UKG and workday.

Speaker 11  34:45  
Similarly for us, we have workday as our HRAS system, and we had to resolve this. So basically, like you, we have another field, which we call other email. Upon hire, upon someone's first higher start date, we have the their business address overrides what was previously in the main address in I Sims and or main email address in I Sims and their personal email address is goes to the other email fields automatically based on some of our integration settings, and upon termination, they flip so you know, The main address becomes whatever personal address they left last in work day, and then their other email becomes their ag email,

Speaker 7  35:50  
okay, well, it sounds like that. The the same solution I came up with, very similar to what y'all had, was just another custom field, because we have a very precarious process of whenever we send the information over to ADP, ADP then send something over to something called a query, and it creates their network profile, and that IT department was very protective about. Don't mess with this, please. I understand y'all want their personal email address, and I Sims just come up with another solution. Please, do not mess with the integration.

Speaker 1  36:26  
All right. Thank you, Patrick, it's time for some mid meeting announcements. Caitlin is going to fire up the wheel before you do that. Caitlin, we got some feedback on Sai. UKG, it looks like the majority of respondents are interested in Thursdays at 1:30pm so we will set that up sometime in the next month and post to the UKG space if you're interested. If you are a UKG customer, we have a special space here just for UKG. Let me know if you want to be dropped in that no extra charge, and we'll put you over there. All right. Caitlin, you ready to go? Actually, actually, one more thing, sorry if you're interested in the full fledged version of Sai, we have a paid version that includes access to our consultant, moderated resources. We have a tech discovery library. We have courses, and we also have the ability to book on demand consulting sessions with the IRD team, just in time support with the IRD team to help you out with I Sims. All right. With that, handing it over to

Speaker 6  37:31  
Caitlin. You.

Speaker 1  37:44  
All right, it's been that way. We're giving away a another copy of Vivian's classic from zero to ATS hero, the accidental. Admins, journey looks like Kate. Kate Gunter, you are our winner today. Congratulations, Kate, just send over your address to Vivian and she will send you off a copy. This is everything that I wish I'd known when I first got started doing Isom system administration. You can also find it on Amazon. It's a fantastic read, and it uses a metaphor of building a house. And Vivian is really an expert at metaphors and walks you through every aspect of what it takes to be successful as an Isom system administrator. So encourage you to check it out with that the floor is once again open. Who else has questions today?

Speaker 6  38:35  
Do

Speaker 2  38:47  
what's the quick PSA, actually. So I just heard from ICSM that that the new release, the May release, release are going into, or should be going into the test environments either today or tomorrow. And I heard through, I heard that we might be, some of us might be getting it in production starting tomorrow as well. I jumped in because I'm really, I'm really eager about the checking out the the expanded variables for the hiring automation. I jumped to the test on my test environment, at least it looks like things are kind of wonky. So I guess they're there. They're doing something behind the scenes, but I can there's a, based on what I can see so far, there's kind of like a search, kind of an expanded search option once you get to create an email template or create an email notification message for hiring automation. But right now, you really can't select something, so it looks like they're doing something behind the scenes. I'll probably pop back in tomorrow or on Monday to let them, you know, let them, let them be and finish doing what they need to do. But they're cooking something. You can see something happening behind the scenes.

Speaker 1  40:00  
Yes, Greg, can you share your screen? So, because I couldn't access that link with the access that we get as consultants,

Speaker 2  40:06  
yeah, I can show you it's, it's not going to be exciting because, only because it's, there's not much I can do at this moment. Yeah, I'll share my screen. Make sure my G chats are awesome and my other teams are cursing. They're very, very, very vocal. So here we it's going. Let's see if it goes. There we go. So really, I just my test environment. And, you know, I set up everything trying to create a test tonight. We get to the part of send the email right over here. Oh, this is new, actually. This was not loading before you get to select your recipients. Right now, it's, if you're in a test environment, it's going to be a little on the slow side as they're loading things up. This took a little while you select your recipient who you want. So let's just say I want to go to the the hiring manager, and then you get to insert variable. You have this new box that's that's going to be going up here. This is right now not functioning for me, and that's okay, because it's test and to test environment, and this is also they're loading it as we speak. So it's very possible if I go back in a few hours, this will get populated and I'll be able to select the variables. But this is a good sign, because this is telling me that when it means expand, this is probably more than you know. I wasn't sure if expanded meant they just added a couple variables here and there, or if there's a good, nice, sizable list, and I'm assuming the developers aren't going to create some search go through trouble creating a search box unless there's a sizable volume that they feel they have to search through. So I'm really excited. Just just seeing the search box, it means that something is percolating, and I can't wait to jump in later tonight or tomorrow and see what the result is. So more on that. And

Speaker 1  41:54  
this is a direct response to feedback.

Speaker 2  41:56  
Yeah,

Speaker 8  41:57  
I'm gonna jump in. Mine's loading there. Mine is loading and they are there, like, like, it looks like a regular search thing to to a point

Speaker 2  42:07  
that is exciting. What kind of, what kind of variables are you seeing? I'll stop sharing. Case anybody else wants to share what they have info.

Speaker 8  42:14  
Um, let me. Let me see if I can share this without exposing too much.

Speaker 6  42:19  
Sure. Uh, but,

Speaker 2  42:24  
yeah, it's Alex's direct feedback from the teams and and I know they still got a lot, there's a lot more that they're working on this summer. So really excited about

Speaker 8  42:34  
that. Okay, so for for an example, let me insert like a candidate or recruiting workflow. And I have like, application date, application, step status, ATS, Link, candidate fields, custom fields, email addresses, External ID, job titles, login groups, manager information,

Speaker 2  42:55  
wow, yeah.

Speaker 8  42:55  
It looks like a regular,

Speaker 2  42:57  
perfect

Speaker 8  42:58  
thing. I am super excited. I am,

Speaker 2  43:01  
I am stoked there might be a possibility not limiting one. Rpa, that's That's wild.

Speaker 8  43:08  
That's awesome. Very cool.

Speaker 1  43:14  
That is great. That is great. Patrick said, this is much better. There's, there's hope for this wonderful so glad to see that. Thanks for sharing. Greg, yeah. In terms of, like, the link that you dropped for May 2026, release notes, does that contain anything, anything else we'd be interested in? I just can't see it. Greg, lost your audio. The

Speaker 2  43:37  
rest it looks like it's a bit of housekeeping here and there in a few places, but it's hiring. Automation seems to be the big thing. There was a couple of things, just housekeeping for interview scheduler, but nothing major. That was like it looks like when I went with it, with my, even my, my success managers. The other day, it took us, like just five minutes to go through everything. So it's a pretty light and that, to me, is actually a really good indicator, because that means that the developers are actually busy focusing their energy for the summer, July and August. So I think July and August are going to be some, you know, maybe even June. I don't want to put that out there, but it looks like, I know it looks like summer is going to be a very interesting time for releases,

Speaker 1  44:21  
agreed

Speaker 2  44:23  
and I can, um, I'll see if I could just maybe copy and paste what I see. It's not, it wasn't a big or American. I'll print out the PDF and attach it to the post.

Speaker 1  44:30  
Thank you so much. Greg, yeah, no problem. Very cool. Cheryl, what's going on your world?

Speaker 8  44:38  
Oh, my gosh, so many things we're working on. We're doing a lot of user what do you call it? Oh, my God, okay, user experience type of things, any for like any user of the system. We're doing a lot of that. Still, we were focusing on that last year, and we're still working on that one. Thing, though, that we are definitely working on, which I, I am super excited about, is AI. So we've been using AI at work. We're using copilot, and they just gave our recruiters and US licenses so that they could, you know, like, do the transcripting and have that all summarize it for them, which I think is super cool. However, the better parts are, we're able to create agents. So, like, I can create a specific agent to help them build out, like, the pay transparency verbiage that we ask them to put in it is super complex. They have to, like, look it up in a spreadsheet and type it out this way AI could do it. So I'm super excited about that. Another thing that we're doing with AI is creating an agent so that a recruiter can say, why, why can't I hire this person you know, or like, what's the rules around hiring an internal person, XYZ, yada yada, whatever. And it will search our like, all of our documentation and give them the answer. So we're super excited about that. So people don't have to, like, look at different documentations, different areas, try to find the information. They can just use an AI agent to look into that. So although it's not a high priority that one, we feel like that's a really nice we call it time savings for the recruiters. And I

Speaker 1  46:22  
always like asking this question in simple language, what is your understanding of agent what makes AI agentic

Speaker 8  46:34  
for the for the ones that we're creating? I would say it's because it's we're giving it a ton of instructions, right? We're giving it, like, guardrails. Look at this. Look at that. Don't look at this. Don't look at that. Don't think about this. Don't search the internet. Don't bring like, don't give us, you know, generic information, like, only search our information. But it's, super just flexible. I mean, to be honest, like it's just like, you can create whatever you want. I created an agent in about an hour that will probably save the recruiters, like, a lot of time, a lot, a lot. So it's in a test phase right now, so we'll see how it goes.

Speaker 1  47:18  
That's great. And Patrick had some great AI use cases last week. It's take its companies are moving slowly, and they should, but I feel like this year, we're starting to see ta ops folks being empowered to use AI tools to create efficiencies. And that is super exciting. When I think about agents, I think about the difference between deterministic use of AI and a non deterministic use of AI. So a deterministic use would be asking chat, GPT, what's what's the weather going to be like in Boston today, right? And a non deterministic use is, I want to go to Boston make it happen, right? And so Cheryl was talking about the guardrails. Of course, the guardrails are absolutely key with a non deterministic goal based application of AI is very, very important, especially when working inside, inside an org like that. If you're using AI in creative ways, please tell us about it and post post in Sai. This is a very, very exciting time. All right. Christine, what's going on in your

Speaker 14  48:32  
world? Hi, all you talking to me. Alex, sorry I was sneezing. Excuse me. Pretty calm this week. Not a lot happening. I'm happy to report. So everything is working as it should. The only thing I've done is I move forward with that. I form that I mentioned, where we're we have creative projects that are assigned. So I move forward with with item to create it pretty basically. So I'm excited to see that and have that be part of you know, their work, recruiting workflow for those particular positions that use it

Speaker 1  49:04  
all right, fantastic. Nina, how about you? What's going on your world?

Speaker 13  49:12  
Uh, UKG, and we had a big breakthrough with the LMS. Um, this week. Super proud of it. Been pushing, pushing, pushing, since last October, and it all works. We did our testing. They got us live. Everybody's happy. Love that.

Speaker 1  49:29  
That's great. Everybody's happy in this call. It's wonderful. Glad to hear it. Greg, what did you mean in chat there about the response to Claude?

Speaker 2  49:38  
So little while ago, Google quietly released a feature. It's kind of there. The idea is, I don't know much about development, but I want to create an app that's useful to me, and it could be just a little project I've always wanted to do, or maybe do something for work they have.

Speaker 6  50:00  
Of

Speaker 2  50:00  
this is their answer. Now it's not as elegant and putting everything like Claude does, puts everything in one under one roof, but they have something called Google stitch and AI studio. And basically stitch is where you actually create, you put as a prompt. It creates the interface, the user interface, what the app is going to do. And then you take that, you transfer that result into something called AI studio, and then AI studio knows, Hey, I've seen this. Now, I'm going to make this happen. And so it's a, it's, it's supposedly a really cool tool. I begun experiment with it. So it's kind of like, you know, just because I've just started, starting with it, it's not like, I'm an expert yet, but it has potential. Again, not I don't think Claude is going to be shaking anytime soon, but it is an interesting response to see where Google is going to go with this. So, you know it looks like now, finally, Google, Claude is on Google's radar, and I'm really it's going to be see down the line a year from now, if they can merge these two together in one big, nice, wonderful, little area so you don't have to move around stuff. You know, clock Could, could have some, you know, clock could have some serious competition in about nine months a year. And it's again, made for those who are looking to create apps, the website of the house. It's still kind of mixed, but it might be it's interesting to keep an eye on. Well,

Speaker 6  51:19  
this is

Speaker 1  51:19  
actually speaks to something I mentioned, I think, last week, called B man. Called B, mad, B, M, A, D, if you would, stands for, but is a developer created a series of agents to do exactly what you're saying. Stitch does, right? And so independently, somebody recognized that as white space. And so we're rebuilding a number of our internal systems at IRD. And the first thing that it does be mad creates a product requirements document, PRD, and it basically interviewed me for for hours about exactly what I wanted this thing to look like, right? Generated a 45 page document that I shared with the team that we're going through, right, and that a single line of code hasn't been written yet, right? And that sounds like that is the point of stitch. Because when you just dive right, and I've learned some of this by trial and error, when you just dive right into the app development, it'll just start it just pile one thing on top of the other, right? You know, sort of like the house metaphor. It's like, okay, I want a bathroom and I want to sink and, oh yeah, I want to attic and oh yeah, I want them. You know, you end up with it with a crummy house that way. This is exciting, exciting to hear that they have that something specifically like that and and to Cheryl's point, Cheryl said we found that Claude is more likely to be more reserved for their responses and less likely to make things up to give you an answer that is, you know, something, I've heard it called sycophancy. I've also heard it called yes bias, right? So chat GPT always saying yes it has an answer, as opposed to saying it doesn't know. And she said, whereas chat GPT wants to give you any answer, even if it's not in the documentation. Found this fascinating. Since I use Cloud for personal stuff and copilot for work stuff, we used to use chat GPT, but I never liked it. So my, my, my my approach with that development right now is that when Claude get first of all, I find Claude to be much more emotionally intelligent. But for the app development, when Claude starts spinning, I will copy and paste the entire conversation, stick it into chat GPT, and have chat GPT diagnose it and redirect it. And nine times out of 10, it gets it right, all right, so it's, it's learning about AI is it's, it's own part time job, and keeping up with how fast things are going. But what's really fascinating to me is to hear that other people are also having this experience of learning the different personalities and strengths and weaknesses of the different tools that are available to us. Yeah, cool stuff. All right, any final questions? We got five minutes. Okay, if not everybody have a great weekend. We'll be here next week at 130 and I will turn off the authentication thing so that everybody can join even they don't have a Zoom account. Take care. Everybody.