iCIMS Hacks: CXM Campaigns & Onboarding at Scale

Imagine Dental's Jordana McGee demos their CXM automation strategy for hard-to-fill dental roles, with a 65% open rate. Plus: managing onboarding doc sprawl when legal keeps adding complexity. Real talk from sysadmins in the trenches.

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Transcript

00:00 Alex M: started. Welcome everybody to System Admin Insights, a place for iSIMs experts to get together and talk shop and problem solve.
00:10 Alex M: Today we have a very special presentation from Jordana McGee, who is going to talk to us about how she's using CXM at Imagine Dental.
00:22 Alex M: And Nina is also here. I imagine Nina is going to have some things to chime in with. But before we do that, we like to start with a little gratitude.
00:30 Alex M: So please drop something in chat that you are grateful for today. Caitlin's grateful that it's Friday. It's beautiful weather in New York right now, Greg.
00:39 Alex M: Am I right? Have you been outside? 
00:41 Greg Mendez: It's gorgeous. Like, this is like, to me, the perfect weather. Not too hot, not too cold. It's great walking weather.
00:47 Greg Mendez: So if you haven't had a chance in your New York area, New Jersey area, go out for that walk. 
00:51 Alex M: Yeah, it's gorgeous. Uh, Angela says her ISIMs import worked. Congratulations. Congratulations. Sunny weather. Yes, indeed. All right. Uh, so with that, Jordana, are you ready to, to jump on in?
01:06 Jordana McGee: Absolutely. Yeah. 
01:07 Alex M: All right. Thanks for doing this. We're excited. 
01:09 Jordana McGee: Yeah. Well, thank you all for. Thank for having me. Um, and thank you for the fantastic introduction. It's nice to see you all today.
01:16 Jordana McGee: Um, I am Jordana and I'm going to talk to you about our CXM. So before we do that, I want to kind of give you a little bit of background as to why we decided to move forward with the CXM, you know, what problems we were trying to solve and all of that.
01:30 Jordana McGee: So, um, we work in dentistry 999 and dentistry is a very, very niche, hard to fill market as some of you, I'm sure most of us work in, right?
01:40 Jordana McGee: So think about dentists, hygienists, dental assistants. The market is not very friendly right now to that group of people. So we really needed a way to keep them engaged, right?
01:49 Jordana McGee: So, and on the flip side, we also work at a startup. So we're not at the time of the startup where we're seeing mass growth.
01:56 Jordana McGee: So we don't have huge teams and people to keep on top of all of the extra candidates. So we really needed to automate as much as possible.
02:04 Jordana McGee: What we were doing was we had some great communication plans set up, but then a recruiter was going in and manually reaching out to people through iSIMS, right?
02:12 Jordana McGee: Because we knew they would be happy housed in a pool, and we wanted the system to do it for us.
02:16 Jordana McGee: So what I'm going to share with you today is what we set up, uhm, and how it all works. So I'm going to go ahead and share my screen.
02:25 Jordana McGee: And feel free to stop me, ask any questions. Any questions you have while I'm doing this, doo doo doo, where is it?
02:34 Jordana McGee: Okay, let me know if you can see this, you should. Are you seeing the CXD? 
02:39 Alex M: Yep, we're good to go. 
02:41 Jordana McGee: Okay, fantastic. So here we are on the dashboard, you have your pipelines. So in the way we set this up was super easy.
02:48 Jordana McGee: Um, anybody who is in ISIMS can move over simply with a tag to one of our pipelines. So all of those are set up, but let's go to our campaigns.
02:57 Jordana McGee: So we have two different kinds of campaigns set up. We have ones for our existing, what I call a silver medalist.
03:03 Jordana McGee: So that's going to be your silver medalist for hygiene, dental assisting, and doctors. And then we also have one for our different events that we go to.
03:11 Jordana McGee: So we're going to start by going into, let's see, where do we feel like going into today? How about Star of the North?
03:20 Jordana McGee: So Star of the North is a campaign that we just recently set up. And you can see it's from an event.
03:31 Jordana McGee: And the first group, no, this is not correct. I'm so sorry. Let's look at the other one. Here we go.
03:38 Jordana McGee: The first one already went out. We had 957 emails that went out to everybody. And then the next group of emails is going to go out in 44 days.
03:48 Jordana McGee: In this specific campaign, uh, the initial one was not set up correctly. So I had to set it up again because what I've learned about the system is if you don't do it right the first time.
03:57 Jordana McGee: It's like working on a Lego set. If you miss one piece, you've got to redo the whole thing. You can't just, like, go back and kind of fix it.
04:05 Jordana McGee: So that was really, really good learning for me. You can see that the pipeline's set up. Like, it's super easy.
04:10 Jordana McGee: I don't know if anyone has any questions around this. This is one of our recruiters who's owning it. 
04:15 Christine Dornbusch: I actually do. I've set up several campaigns, and they've worked fine, and then the last few I've set up haven't run.
04:26 Christine Dornbusch: And iSims tried to tell me that I did things out of order, like I, like, created the campaign before I created the pipeline, which is actually impossible.
04:37 Christine Dornbusch: So, I'm curious what you learned that you said when you said you didn't do it right the first time. What allowed you to make it and then not have it work?
04:47 Christine Dornbusch: Because I just ran into the same thing this morning again. 
04:50 Jordana McGee: Yeah. So, this specific campaign was standard, and we had not inputted all of the candidates yet, all the leads from the event, because the event didn't take place.
05:03 Jordana McGee: So, I needed to do that first, and then go live with the campaign. So, we had published the campaign before we were ready.
05:12 Jordana McGee: That was my learning from it. 
05:14 Christine Dornbusch: Okay. 
05:15 Jordana McGee: Yeah. That's a good question. 
05:18 Christine Dornbusch: I don't know for mine. They've, pipelines have existed for, like, over a year, and it just, it didn't go. It was supposed to be scheduled to go today.
05:28 Jordana McGee: I'm sorry. I know, I feel, I feel that, because that's, it took me a minute to go, what did I do wrong with that first one that I showed you?
05:34 Jordana McGee: We were, wait, why is it not going? What have we done wrong? So, they just, they could not, I almost needed to, well, I did, I copied and pasted a brand new one, and I will, I'm leaving that other one in there as a reminder to myself to do it correctly next time, to be honest, because I need those reminders
05:51 Jordana McGee: , so. And that would be a regular campaign. Now, the automated campaigns are a little different. These are fun. Let's go down to our hygiene one.
06:00 Jordana McGee: So, is that one. So, you see, we still have a lot of tests in here, because I like those, but, hygienists are a different, kind of beast, because we want to keep them engaged.
06:12 Jordana McGee: So, we got, we have their approval to put them into this campaign. However, if they don't open it, we know they're not really engaged with us.
06:20 Jordana McGee: So, we know that that is a great way just to stop it. So, if they open it, they get to move on.
06:25 Jordana McGee: If not, they're not moving on. But, when they come down here, if they open it, then they have to click it.
06:32 Jordana McGee: Going over here is going to take them on a much different, more robust track than if they don't click it.
06:39 Jordana McGee: Thank you. If just open it and are kind of passive, we don't want to berate them, berate, like, with all these different emails.
06:44 Jordana McGee: Instead, it's a more drawn-out one. And the emails are, you know, fun jokes about dentistry, but also, hey, look at our job board.
06:54 Jordana McGee: Things that hygienists find fun, but you can see there's a lot of 
06:57 Alex M: different 
06:57 Jordana McGee: paths, and it's all based on hygiene. Like, it just keeps going, because we know if they're really engaged, they're going to tell us in the beginning, and they're going to click on that email.
07:08 Jordana McGee: So, we really want to keep them engaged, especially because, what if they're out of town? Or they've missed that email, or it went to spam.
07:14 Jordana McGee: So, but it's different than, like, the doctor one. 
07:21 Alex M: So, I have a question. That's great. And it, you made a very intentional choice not to ping somebody a second time.
07:28 Alex M: If they did not open the first email. Uhm, that's, that's a very deliberate choice. And I'm sure many would be tempted to try maybe a second time and even a third time.
07:38 Alex M: Uhm, and, and I'm wondering, uh, if you could talk more about what principles are going to be your decisions in, in, because every single one of these, every single one of these inflections, inflection points is a user experience judgment call.
07:54 Alex M: And that's a lot of decisions to be making. So, like, what principles are guiding you? Are you looking to any kind of best practice resources?
08:00 Alex M: Are you just going sort of like, just sort of intuiting your way into what the user experience would be like?
08:05 Alex M: What are your 
08:05 Jordana McGee: thoughts on that? Yeah, no, good questions. So, we have specific hygiene recruiters that worked with our hygiene directors to get their feedback.
08:12 Jordana McGee: So, those are former hygienists that, uh, gave us the, Hey, this is. A little too many emails, this is enough emails, because at the same time, we still want to be able to source from this pool of candidates.
08:23 Jordana McGee: So, we need to keep them engaged, but also 
08:25 Alex M: happy, right? 
08:26 Jordana McGee: Too many is too much. Now, here you can see doctor, very different. And to this, honestly, I, I picked some of Nina's brain.
08:34 Jordana McGee: We all know Nina, right? So, she is very, very knowledgeable, and then also worked with our own doctor recruiters, as to their experience, and then some, some doctors as well.
08:42 Jordana McGee: We, we went just right to Dennis. What is, what is an appropriate number? When should you receive those? And then you'll see, Thank you joining me.
08:48 Jordana McGee: Dental assistance, there's almost none. I think we reach out to them maybe every six months, but we'll send them text engagements.
08:56 Jordana McGee: Let's see. Yeah, I mean, and it's like, and there's the end of the campaign. It's very now, if we get down to here and they're still there.
09:05 Jordana McGee: They're still getting emails from us, and we haven't hired them. I'll be surprised. 
09:10 Alex M: And so Patrick mentioned in chat, he said, these are very similar automation-only differences. We move cold candidates to their own pipeline based off of inactivity, so recruiters won't spend time on them.
09:20 Jordana McGee: Yeah. Now, the next thing they build out will be our support center, right? Because we don't have anything built out for, like, accountants or anything of that nature, but we know we're going to be recruiting a pool for them as well.
09:35 Alex M: Do you do any A-B testing? 
09:37 Jordana McGee: No, say more. 
09:38 Alex M: Um, well, to test some, something you're wondering about, like, whether, whether we should just ping somebody once or ping them twice, you would have the same campaign and then segment your audience and do one test.
09:53 Alex M: One run on one segment and another run on the other segment, and then look at the open rates, look at the success rates, and determine based on that type of testing, which one of those directions is more effective.
10:04 Jordana McGee: Oh, I like that. 
10:06 Greg Mendez: I was going to actually say that's actually really useful for you. If your team is having a debate, for example, or is there a generational difference in a response, if you were to like, hey, what if we, what if we instead of text, instead of email, we decided for one specific population, we'd like to
10:25 Greg Mendez: introduce text instead texting. So, like, you could, you could do that A-B testing, because it helps kind of sell the argument once and for all, but it also helps you refine it in a controlled environment.
10:34 Greg Mendez: Uhm, so, it's, the nice thing about it is if you want, there's tons of resources on that, uhm. And also, you can, there's definitely, you know, pick your, your favorite, uh, uh, uh, large, large, large model and, uhm, large language model and it will walk you through, like, an example case scenarios,
10:53 Greg Mendez: but it's a really good way of testing, uh, having that. I noticed, for example, that if you were talking to different hygienists, uhm, and if you broke it up by generations, you might see a difference.
11:01 Greg Mendez: Maybe not. Like, you know, it, you know, uh, is it also regional? You know, if you're recruiting across the country, are there differences in that recruitment?
11:10 Greg Mendez: So I, I, I like the A, B test. I think because it has always settled, you, you always end up with data that you can use for support, for supporting.
11:17 Greg Mendez: And by the way, kudos, by the way, for your restraint, uhm, we're actually launching a CXM project in September, and it's really hard to keep everyone kind of, uhm, focused.
11:28 Greg Mendez: We're focused on starting with a few talent pools, uh, they really want to go in there, like, they're, like, they got a list of like 10, 15 talent pools they want to start with, and I'm like, woah, uhm, let's, let's slow down there, it's the end of the campaign, 
11:41 Jordana McGee: so, 
11:41 Greg Mendez: uhm, quick question about, like, just project planning, quick question, how did you get your teams to focus initially and settle, because I've seen, I, I, I mean, there, that, that, that's tricky.
11:55 Jordana McGee: I think I'm really lucky with the team that I have, they're just a very supportive, dynamic group of writers. Recruiters that want to all cross the finish line together.
12:05 Jordana McGee: And we kind of work in priorities with doctor and hygiene first, because those are the roles that keep us all employed, to be honest.
12:14 Jordana McGee: So as long as we keep the true North going, it's, this is where we start. This is where we're going.
12:18 Jordana McGee: And they were all aligned. I think when we finally did build the dental assistant one, it was, okay, this is easy and I don't think we need a lot of them and go.
12:27 Jordana McGee: So. Kudos. Kudos. Keeping that 
12:31 Greg Mendez: scope, creep and check. 
12:33 Jordana McGee: Yeah, they're great. Cause they don't, they compete about unusual things, but never recruiting. So, but we do have, I don't know, have y'all seen the dashboards?
12:43 Jordana McGee: Those are good too. 
12:44 Alex M: Love to see that. Yeah. 
12:45 Jordana McGee: Yes. Let me, let's go back here. I'm still learning. I feel like this system is the opposite of what I'm comfortable with sometimes.
12:55 Jordana McGee: So we always look at this and go, okay, if you feel like you shouldn't go there, that's where you should go.
12:59 Alex M: Interesting. 
13:01 Jordana McGee: Okay. So with this one, because the data is all in different spots. Let's start here. And when we were building it, there was no reporting that was outside of anything that was here.
13:17 Jordana McGee: The other thing that I will say is when we were putting it all together, it was nice to have it mapped out first.
13:23 Jordana McGee: So, for example, we had everything ready to go in a Word doc, so this is the communication we want to go out, this is the date we want it to go out, and this is the image we want.
13:31 Jordana McGee: Because putting it together, there was just so many steps. And that way it alleviated the, okay, what do we want to have here, the heavy thinking that comes with it?
13:40 Jordana McGee: That was done first. 
13:41 Alex M: So, so first of all, I want to say a 65% open rate is phenomenal. 
13:46 Jordana McGee: Thank you. 
13:46 Alex M: Really phenomenal. So, so at least for, like, because we've run our own, uh, uh, outreach campaigns and we look, we look mostly I'm looking at newsletter open rates now.
13:57 Alex M: Um, and the, uh, research that I looked at said that 30% is really strong, right? And our newsletter is, it floats between 40 and 50.
14:07 Alex M: So I'm very proud of that. You're hitting 64%. That's amazing. 
14:13 Jordana McGee: I like to put in really corny jokes, like really corny, like, you know, you've got the dental jokes in there.
14:18 Jordana McGee: I mean, I can show a few of them if you all enjoy a good dental joke. 
14:21 Alex M: Please. I was going to ask. 
14:21 Jordana McGee: I'm the only one laughing, but. 
14:25 Alex M: I think this is a right audience. 
14:27 Jordana McGee: Okay. Perfect. Let's see what we have here. Doot, doot, doot. Give me a moment. I'll find you a good one.
14:35 Jordana McGee: No, not here. 
14:37 Alex M: I mean, making it human. It's all about making it human. Yeah. It's that it really differentiates. From, from other brands.
14:47 Jordana McGee: I kind of wish I could see Nina's face as I pull these up. 
14:49 Alex M: She's 
14:49 Jordana McGee: just going to be 
14:50 Alex M: like, 
14:50 Jordana McGee: okay, I can't believe you've done this. 
14:52 Alex M: Who wrote the jokes? Did you, did you write these jokes? 
14:54 Jordana McGee: No, here, no, gosh, no, no, I find them, we find them online. So here, I need to see a dentist.
14:58 Jordana McGee: That's great. One of my favorite canines is getting loose. 
15:00 Alex M: Oh, 
15:00 Jordana McGee: that's great. 
15:02 Alex M: That's great. 
15:03 Jordana McGee: Yes. 
15:03 Alex M: That's fantastic. 
15:05 Jordana McGee: There's one. Oh, here. Receiving best dentist award at dentist awards. It's the only plaque that's allowed in my house. So there's just a lot.
15:15 Jordana McGee: A lot of them, but then we add in at the bottom, you know, here is. We always have a link to the job stage and because we want them to know that we're trying to build something fun.
15:25 Jordana McGee: We work with private practices. So the doctors are very niche and they are very. Nice and fun and funny. 
15:31 Alex M: And 
15:31 Jordana McGee: yeah, they just do neat things. Um, you know, for example, we have a doctor who's out in a winter area and he provides no tires for his whole team so that they can get to work safely because, you know, just, we want to celebrate that.
15:44 Alex M: So 
15:44 Jordana McGee: that's great. Lots of, and lots of images, because I think, you know, you mentioned the generation. I think most, that's one of the hard things right now is how many, I think we have four generations in the workforce.
15:55 Jordana McGee: How do we support all that? We can all kind of align with images. 
15:59 Alex M: Yep. 
16:00 Jordana McGee: So let me see if I have an example. One, this one might be, nope, it's the same one. Sorry. I use that one a lot.
16:08 Jordana McGee: It's hilarious. Oh, this is for doctors, right? Who we are. That's important. Yeah. Oh, here. I mean, everybody knows this one.
16:19 Jordana McGee: Compass Lady, right? Brush your teeth, Takeda. So again, just something light. 
16:26 Alex M: I mean, I've got to say, I've never received a campaign with that type of a personality. I really haven't. It's great.
16:34 Alex M: It's really wonderful. Oh, can we look at analytics more? 
16:37 Jordana McGee: Of course. Yes. 
16:38 Alex M: Yeah. 
16:46 Jordana McGee: Take a minute. My apologies for the slow. So, and this is everything combined here. This is if you've gone to an event or if we've sent out those messages.
16:58 Jordana McGee: So, if we want to kind of drill down, we can look at different campaigns down here. 
17:05 Alex M: Uh-huh. 
17:07 Jordana McGee: So, you can see we did great. Well, not we, but I wasn't there. They did great at ASDA, which is a doctor event.
17:14 Jordana McGee: Uh-huh. A lot of that has to do with the connection of the, the two recruiters that went. 
17:19 Alex M: Uh-huh. It would be great to find some, some industry benchmarks. 
17:23 Jordana McGee: For what? 
17:25 Alex M: Because compared to our newsletter, you're crushing it, um, but compared to other dental organizations, I wonder, I wonder what that is.
17:32 Alex M: I mean, I'm sure you can chat GPT it, but, um, yeah. Very interesting. 
17:39 Jordana McGee: Yeah. And then why don't we have, I don't think we've had a long enough to look at hiring conversions because we talked to so many students.
17:45 Jordana McGee: Yeah, I don't think we're gonna have anything here for you. Sorry. And then let me think. We can also look at.
17:55 Jordana McGee: Yeah, nothing yet, but I love this. This is already built. 
18:05 Alex M: Now what. What, if you had to pick one thing that you think is impactful from these analytics, what do you think you would drill down into when thinking about how to change it, change up anything that you're doing?
18:21 Jordana McGee: I would want to know. That's such a good question. When I think about it, and I look at them, I look at, is the messaging being received?
18:31 Jordana McGee: I want to know that they're opening them, right? I want to know that we're, we're sending things that are impactful, positive, maybe making someone's day.
18:39 Jordana McGee: I want to know that they're open. I mean, how many emails do we get every day? I know every night, I'm like, oh, gosh, I have over 100 emails to go through on my personal email.
18:47 Jordana McGee: And it's a lot of it's junk. So how many are just clicking to delete it? And how many are actually opening them?
18:53 Jordana McGee: And why? So that we can continue to repeat it, because this is done with our recruiting team. We don't have a marketing team that's supporting us right now.
19:01 Jordana McGee: And I think that's very positive. 
19:05 Alex M: I wonder, does it have, um, subject line A-B testing built into it as a feature? Have you seen that? 
19:16 Jordana McGee: I have not, but. Greg, you're not actively using it yet, right? 
19:32 Alex M: You're, No? Okay. Anybody else actively using CXM right now? Terry, do you have it? 
19:42 Jordana McGee: I 
19:42 Terry Smith: don't have We do have it, uhm, but, uh, since our, uh, recruitment marketing person left, we haven't really been 
19:52 Alex M: using it. Okay. 
19:53 Terry Smith: Right now, we just don't have an overwhelming need of applications. 
19:58 Alex M: Yeah, okay. Well, Jordana, thank you I would suggest looking through the documentation and seeing if A-B testing is a thing, and if not, I think that would be a great feature request for iSIMS because that is usually mentioned as one of the most impactful things that you could measure and, and, and tweak
20:11 Alex M: and do A-B testing on. 
20:16 Jordana McGee: This is so helpful. Thank you. Thank you for the suggestion. I will look into that immediately. 
20:23 Alex M: Well, anything else you'd like to show us in here? 
20:26 Jordana McGee: No, anything I can. Show anybody anything else you'd like to see? It's really easy to move people over, by the way, if you have your silver medalist through tags.
20:37 Jordana McGee: Every Friday, they just, well, not even every Friday, but every, I guess every day, the recruiters just tag all of their silver medalists when they go to closed out of rec and then they're all sitting in here.
20:47 Jordana McGee: And you can even source out of here. We don't source out of here because only people who are tagged are in here or at an event and you have everybody who's ever applied inside of ISIM.
20:55 Jordana McGee: So that is a feature as well. 
20:58 Alex M: I know I had one last question. So, um, how. How do you gauge the overall conversion effectiveness? Like, is there a way to tie all of this to who actually got interviewed, who actually got hired?
21:10 Jordana McGee: I'm still working on that. Good question. 
21:12 Alex M: Yep. Yeah. 
21:14 Jordana McGee: Yeah. 
21:15 Alex M: Great. Any other questions? All right, Jordana, thank you so much for presenting today. We really appreciate it. Uhm, and with that, we will move over to our general questions.
21:29 Alex M: And let's see, we've got Alyssa, we had a CXM question actually, Brad. I don't think Brett's on the call today.
21:44 Alex M: Uuuhm, Alyssa, Liam. Liam, you're on the call. 
21:53 lorr: Yes. 
21:54 Alex M: Hi Liam, you want to walk us through this? 
21:56 lorr: Yeah, it's, uh, it's complicated. So, uh, if you need me to clarify, I will. Uhm, so, kind of setting the stage for it, we, we went live officially with ISIMS onboarding about a year and a half ago.
22:11 lorr: We ran a small pilot, uhm, and we came off of our previous vendors, uhm, onboarding setup, which was managed by our HRAS team, and then we inherited it as admins of ISIMS.
22:23 lorr: And we had about three, they had, like, onboarding packets in there, so, like, the pre-built documents, the same way new hire categories work, it's just labeled differently.
22:31 lorr: Uhm, there's about three of 300, 275, 300, uhm, and in going to that, we were able to reduce that down to around 50.
22:39 lorr: And we have it kind of broadly siloed out, so we have six different business units, and we're across about 40 locations in the U.S., uhm, And we set it up in a way where we have basically all the standardized documents, so like the, the kind of broad confidentiality agreement, and, uh, employee handbook
23:00 lorr: , and all that types of stuff, uhm, that doesn't vary by location, or, or role type, or business unit, or anything like that, so, uhm, everything else that would, that's a little bit more bespoke or specific to a business, uhm, we put into a, uh, kind of miscellaneous folder for tasks, and it's like,
23:21 lorr: the responsibility of either TA or HR, depending on who's assigning onboarding, to ensure that they, they add in the right, uhm, documents when needed, uhm, you know, some roles don't need them, some do, some locations don't, some do, and so forth, so, now we're kind of running into an issue, you know
23:39 lorr: , we, we kind of set pretty strict guidelines, and we set our expectations with our legal team going into this about two years ago, and now we're, we've done a big acquisition, we've, uh, opened four new, and four new states that we weren't in before, For more information And now we're getting, kind 
23:56 lorr: of, requests for new, new businesses that have, that get specific confidentiality agreements, or, uhm, arbitration agreements, and, and things like that, and then we're getting the requests in saying, oh, no, you know, we don't, we don't want to have them select this, we want to ensure that this goes
24:13 lorr: out accurately, and there aren't mistakes made, and I, I understand the, the need for that. Uhm, so we're now starting to add in, in a kind of trickle effect, more new hire categories, and it's exactly the thing we were trying to avoid.
24:25 lorr: So, we're getting the indication from our legal team that this is just kind of the tip of the iceberg, and that this is going to continue to grow in scale with new additional documents, and, uhm, state-specific things, role-specific things, business-specific things, and so on, uhm.
24:41 lorr: So, my question, kind of broadly for the group, is really, has anyone gone through something similar like this, where you're, you're kind of, uh, having a David and Goliath type moment, uhm, going against the legal team to try to minimize what the, the impact of maintenance is going to be for you in 
24:59 lorr: ISIMs with new higher category management, uhm, because we've kind of pushed back on, on the legal team a bit to say, you know, is there a way you can harmonize, you know, like a arbitration agreement, right?
25:08 lorr: You have a standardized document and an appendix at the bottom that has state-specific call-outs when, when and where needed. And they haven't really given us much reason to it, just kind of a, no, we're not going to do that right now.
25:18 lorr: So, uhm, you know, I'm not, I don't want to sit here and, uh, go through my, my quibbles about the legal team and the conversations we're having, but I'm curious if anyone's gone through anything similar.
25:30 lorr: to this and, and how you've gone through, uhm, process management around new hire categories and, and trying to reduce it, or has it just been, uhm, you know, you kind of created them as needed, when needed and all that sort of stuff, right?
25:43 lorr: I think from a technology standpoint, we know how to do it. I don't and what, what to do with it, but, uhm, we are, we're kind of keeping our options open as, as far as, uhm, what we can do as kind of a middle ground to suggest to kind of keep this manageable.
26:02 lorr: That's a great question. 
26:03 Alex M: So I have two, two questions. Uh, first question is how well is your current state documented? 
26:12 lorr: Um, what do you mean by that? 
26:18 Alex M: So do you have a spreadsheet or some other one source of truth that, because you can't crank this out of ISIMs, right?
26:25 Alex M: You can't just click a button and see here's all, everything we have set up for Onboard. Right. Do you have a master spreadsheet or something of that nature that shows you exactly where you are right now?
26:33 lorr: Yeah, we do. And it's publicly shared with the entire TA team. So it's, we, we have another member of my team creates the ATS user guide and we have all the different new hire categories and the miscellaneous, uhm.
26:46 lorr: Task folders all documented with exactly what's in it, who it goes out to, and when it goes out. 
26:52 Alex M: Great. Second question. Have you made a business case for what you're trying to achieve? In some way. Trying to attach dollars to efficiency.
27:04 lorr: Not yet, but it's a great call out. 
27:08 Alex M: That's so I think that's really key. And the third kind of ties to that, which is have so so in your role.
27:16 Alex M: You may not have much time. You much leverage with legal, right? Politically, there may be somebody else who does. And obviously, I'm not going to details on this call.
27:23 lorr: Right. 
27:24 Alex M: But what I've found is that the people who understand the real impact of this from a systems perspective don't always have the leverage to influence change management the way somebody else might.
27:37 Alex M: So, I will just leave you with that thought. You might want to talk to your supervisor and have that conversation and say that, you know, in the political landscape of this organization, we need to identify the right person and empower that person with facts preferably attached to dollar value.
27:57 Alex M: Right? Because then someone else can be drawn into the situation and say, hey, if we, if we go from 50 new hire cow or categories to four or 500, what is the drag on our, on our systems internally from, from a human perspective?
28:14 Alex M: How much more work is that going to cause? And if the answer is, it's just going to be a headache for you personally, that's not, that's not going to move the game.
28:21 Alex M: But if the answer is that it's actually going to slow other things down and negatively impact some of your time-based metrics and negatively impact your ability to hire efficiently, those are arguments that can be taken back to legal by the right stakeholder to make a compelling argument.
28:38 Alex M: They probably don't understand any of that, and they're probably thinking that, you know, why are these folks complaining? This is obviously the logical thing to do.
28:46 Alex M: Their MO is to mitigate risk as much as they possibly can, because they know that something falls through the cracks, then it's their name on this policy, right?
28:59 Alex M: But to really make the case for that, if you can bring a business case to the table and quantify the impact of making a structural change like this, I think that probably has the most potential for success.
29:10 Alex M: Yeah, that's from like a change management political perspective.
29:21 Alex M: From a practical perspective, who else on the call has dealt with this, either specifically with onboarding or all of this sort of issue crops up in many different places, right, where it is theoretically possible to take something to the nth degree of granularity, but in practice there are negative 
29:40 Alex M: impacts that other people might not be aware of. 
29:42 Greg Mendez: So, Alex, I think what it comes down to is, just because you can, should you, right? So, it comes down to, can you maintain it?
29:59 Greg Mendez: So, an example that, you know, we see with, uh, iform, offer letters. Either it be iforms, or offer module, or the offer module.
30:07 Greg Mendez: You can get really, you know, you can use, uhm, clauses, you can create a whole bunch of state-specific clauses, or clauses based on different conditions.
30:18 Greg Mendez: You can create different templates. The more you, the more you create, though, the more you've, you've got to train and educate individuals to use it, and also the more you've got to maintain.
30:24 Greg Mendez: So, there's that danger. In the chat, you know, someone pointed out, you know, on a practical level, what, what some organi- Meh.
30:31 Greg Mendez: A number of organizations will do is, look, they'll, they'll, they'll, they'll put in their offer letter, or whatever the document's going to be, uhm, their, their various state notices, and you, you know, you've kind of seen this also, if you've kind of seen some terms of agreements in places, you're
30:46 Greg Mendez: like, you know, if a New Jersey resident and a Wisconsin resident, right, you kind of go down and you'll see it.
30:50 Greg Mendez: And the reason they do that is not to create an extra long document, but just because it's easier to maintain, and it covers your bases.
30:58 Greg Mendez: If they come back and are like, well, we really need to be granular and just kind of have to put that way the opposite, we can, You But just understand development wise, that means it's going to be harder to maintain, and it's going to take longer to roll out.
31:09 Greg Mendez: And that means there's going to be an increased chance of something falling through cracks. Should anything change in those notices, because you know, it's going to change the day after you roll it out.
31:18 Greg Mendez: So that that's going to be the the risk associated with that. But if you put it into one big document, not going to look pretty, guaranteed, but you would cover yourself.
31:26 Greg Mendez: And then it's a lot easier for your documentation to say, hey, everything's put into here, see that. And that way, when something does change, a link, a document, whatever, whatever the verbiage has changed, you could change, go to that one place to do it.
31:39 Greg Mendez: And that might be the selling point. It might be a nice compromise for you, for whoever needs to maintain it.
31:44 Greg Mendez: And your general counsels. And I, I understand general counsels that they're trying to mitigate risk for you, your, your organization.
31:50 Greg Mendez: So they're going to do things that. May, may seem not always logical or may not always seem to, to make practical sense, but I get why they're doing it.
31:59 lorr: Sure. And, and I do too, right? I know they, they have a bandwidth issue too, so they're going path of least resistance for them.
32:06 lorr: They have these versions that they can go maintain, uhm, or handle, and then they'll do updates as needed rather than devoting a resource to consolidating various versions of an arbitration agreement or a handbook addendum down, uhm, but, you know, that, that's the burden is then passed on to us, right
32:24 lorr: ? So I'm not, I'm not looking to put the burden back on them. You know, I want to ideally find a situation that works for everyone so that we keep our desk manageable and they end up with finger documentation and all the, all that sort of stuff.
32:35 lorr: Uhm, but I like the idea of having a sort of channel where we're, we're, uhm, to kind of take this case up that can maneuver the political landscape of a large organization, right?
32:46 lorr: And I think we have our TA director that we report up to, uhm, who's good about that. And, you know, we have our SVP who's willing to, to kind of listen things out.
32:56 lorr: But the, you know, we've, we've gotten other feedback that it's like, oh, we, we need to do what makes the business happy.
33:02 lorr: And it's like, well, there's, we do, and there's a line to be drawn. It's just a matter of finding that, that line, right?
33:09 lorr: Like we can't make the business happy to our detriment. 
33:12 Alex M: Yeah, this is, you're really speaking to the consultative role of HR Ops, right? Yeah. Assistant administrator specifically. Christine mentioned something I've found helpful is realizing that some company org-wide documents like policies, employee handbooks have all state-specific notices.
33:28 Alex M: I'm sure 
33:34 lorr: people I you mentioned that at sort of that USGS and we can take. So have you So, if you don't mind, have we have the U.
33:45 lorr: S. Employee handbook, but then one of our businesses has, um, state specific arbitration agreements. So, like, there's one for Texas, and we've been, we've kind of drawn a line in the sand, but at least when we set up, um, ISIBs onboarding and said, you know, if you have a Texas hire, you have to go 
34:00 lorr: in and add this Texas handbook to this, this packet. You know, we're not going to create an additional Texas version.
34:06 lorr: And then that one Texas version becomes five Texas versions for all the different businesses. And, you know, then it compounds.
34:12 lorr: Right. Um, and realistically, I think, some of these, the handbook addendums are pretty lengthy, right? So, you know, 30 page document becomes 50 pages, becomes 70 pages as you start to add in, you know, uh, state specific stuff.
34:25 lorr: So I understand why they don't want to do it from that perspective, because then maintaining that on their end becomes burdensome.
34:31 lorr: So, uhm, that is something we've kind of pushed towards for some of the shorter documents, like arbitration agreements, where it's, it's really just a single clause or, you know, three lines that are notated specifically for California or Colorado or, or whatever it is.
34:46 Greg Mendez: So I guess, I guess the other thing you could, you could do or whoever's going to be connecting with General Counsel is, A, kind of try to help them articulate, you know, having them articulate what are the legal risks or exposures that they're, they're seeing that if they see these other, if the other
35:02 Greg Mendez: , if someone sees the other notices, even if it, if it's they're not applicable to them, like, what, what, what are the, what are their concerns of that?
35:08 Greg Mendez: Other than it's going to be an ultra long document. Um, and then is, are there any, are they, do they have any, um, are there any, uh, other practical ways that they'd be, we could present the notice, get that information where they can, where the, where the individual can see the information at their
35:24 Greg Mendez: leisure, but not, but also kind of not compromise the, the, the candidate experience. So for example, um, there could be a link to a much longer document that has all the notices, and the individual can click on that, right?
35:37 Greg Mendez: So you can have those notices be there. It's not as, you know, may not, it's not right as in their face, but it's there unless they, unless the, the, there is a legal requirement, it has to be in their face, and then you're kind of back to that.
35:48 Greg Mendez: But then you can double check with them, have your SVP or your, your tech, your, your talent acquisition leader say, hey, so what, you know, can you articulate what the risk is?
35:55 Greg Mendez: What are your concerns if someone sees the other, the other notices? Uh, because there's, because if we, if we were to start getting granular, there's another set of risks that would happen, and you could talk about what those risks are, like what happens if, you get, you know, if it's, if it's hard 
36:11 Greg Mendez: to maintain, that has its own set of risks, which could actually cancel out what general counsel is trying to do.
36:16 Greg Mendez: So I guess just trying to articulate that in a way, in such a way that they understand that there are other risks that could be introduced by going down this very granular route.
36:25 Alex M: And you're speaking their language. I like that. Nina said, to add to Greg's point, what are the risks of not seeing a notice?
36:30 Alex M: For example, if the employee moves from New Jersey to New York, having one version with all state notices covers that.
36:37 Alex M: That's great. If not, is there risk in not notifying an employee who moves? That's really great. I would add to that, like, have, have they, have they, have they actually been burned up before?
36:49 Alex M: Are there specific instances of this going wrong at the organization that they have in mind? And perhaps if they tell you those stories, there is another way another solution that hasn't even been considered yet.
37:00 lorr: Right. Yeah. 
37:03 Alex M: I find a lot of times GCs are also not referencing best practice. Right. That is, that is, that is industry domain specific.
37:13 Alex M: Right. And I'm not even sure, aside from crowdsourcing in here and talking to other sysadmins, I'm not even sure where I would point somebody right now for TA best practice that would be useful to a general counsel.
37:27 Alex M: Has anybody seen something like that? That would be good to have. 
37:37 lorr: It would be. 
37:39 Alex M: Yeah. Caitlin, you are compliance nut. What are your thoughts on all this? 
37:46 Kaitlyn Faile: Listening. Uhm, I really like Naina's call out too, about the things that you forget about and the things that you rely on people in an organization to share with you.
37:56 Kaitlyn Faile: Cause sometimes we know people do things and aren't always forthcoming with that type of information. So doing what you can to better the org and the experience.
38:06 Alex M: Yeah. Build a simple risk matrix, says Greg. I like that. What would you include, Greg? 
38:17 Greg Mendez: And to your audience, obviously, if this was, uh, this was not general counsel and this you're trying to, you know, educate your, uh, HR leaders, you'd kind of do more on, emphasis more on the risk to their people team, the, to policy compliance and, and more how that's going to come down, come, come
38:38 Greg Mendez: back, circle back to them downstream and be a bigger problem. Um, quantify where you can. You know, if I was doing this with someone who was like more at this business, owned this more on the business end, then quantify, well, I can do what you want.
38:52 Greg Mendez: Besides risk, there's also a cost associated with this with time and money. And, and also tell them, if we do this, let me tell you what projects or initiatives we're not going to be able to do now, or have to push back.
39:05 Greg Mendez: Is it worth it? Or as the old saying goes, you know, is, you know, is it just worth the squeeze, right?
39:09 Greg Mendez: I mean, is, is, is it going to be worth it? If it is, okay, at least they're going in, making a fund, form a decision, your team knows, hey, look, we're going to have to drop this for now.
39:16 Greg Mendez: They know this, um, or it's going to require an extra cost because there might be some ways around it that is not just about time.
39:22 Greg Mendez: You may have to pull in a consultant or may have to pull in a, you know, ISIM to do something special that may have a cost.
39:29 Greg Mendez: Even if it's a relatively small cost, um, if it was general counsel, I would add to that then something a bit more where you're talking about the risk that could, that could open up.
39:39 Greg Mendez: So, for example, you know, if there's collective bargaining involved, well, if I'm being very granular and then something changes, I don't know.
39:45 Greg Mendez: You the collective bargaining side, state side, wherever that is, um, you know, there could be some, there could be a lag between when that goes to effect and the notice, and what kind of risk would that open up, um, you know.
40:01 Greg Mendez: Who is that audience going to, you know, that audience, what extra work would be needed, and all the extra vetting and governance going to be required to get that review, because it may not be as simple as, yeah, we can just copy and paste.
40:13 Greg Mendez: You might need a vetting process, right? And with general counsel and with, um, various employee relations teams, and those involved in customer bargaining, you know, obviously, they're gonna, their bandwidth is limited, so that means that's going to add to the time between when someone says something
40:28 Greg Mendez: needs to be updated, and then the time it actually takes to get it done. And I'm kind of going through that in a few different projects.
40:34 Greg Mendez: I think they're taking months to do, even though, practically, it may only take you a few minutes. 
40:41 lorr: Yeah, it's, look, great call-outs, and I think, uhm, we are fortunate, as far as CBAs go, because we do have union shops, not all of them are, but some of them are, uhm, and we did win the fight of keeping our CBAs out of Bison's onboarding, and the unions are responsible for getting that information
40:59 lorr: to them on-site, so we don't have to worry about the versioning changes for 70-whatever unions that we have. We have kind of various, uh, across the country, uhm, which helped- is helpful for us.
41:11 lorr: We do also have an annual review period, which we agreed to with legal, uhm, when we started this project, which kind of ranges from the end of the year until the beginning of the year, where we get new reviews.
41:21 lorr: Uhm, and versioning for documents that they update, right, and as we continue to get more documents, then that's more time that takes for us, and, you know, finding a way to quantify how much time is that going to take us, and what's going to have to be put on hold at the beginning of each year so that
41:34 lorr: we can maintain document versions and iframe version updating, uhm, Thank you. It's something to consider, so thank you for that.
41:42 Alex M: I remember, and then we'll move on, uhm, the first time I did an onboarding implementation, I, I creatively used conditional fields to display things that were relevant to the new hire category.
41:55 Alex M: Uhm, and I, I mean, I, I reduced the number of new hire categories by like 80% doing, doing this. And I remember somebody, maybe it was Shane, saying that it might not be the best idea, uhm, and I can't remember why.
42:11 Alex M: But Liam, have you considered anything like that? Like you, you select this state and then you see this and you don't see everything else.
42:16 Alex M: You select this state, you see a whole nother batch of stuff. 
42:18 lorr: Uhm, we, it was a topic that came up, but it wasn't something that we felt we needed to do at the time.
42:25 lorr: But now that you're bringing it up, cause I was also starting to think about it, uhm, it might now be something to revisit.
42:31 lorr: But then again, that's also, that's also a time commitment of getting all that. Yeah. Stood up and existing. So. 
42:38 Alex M: Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Alright, well Liam, thank you very much for the question. 
42:43 lorr: Well, thanks to everyone who had feedback. That's great. 
42:46 Alex M: Absolutely. Now with that, I want to turn it over to Caitlin. We've got a wheel. We're going to give away a free copy of From Zero to ATS Hero book by our very own Vivian Larson, who's on vacation today.
42:57 Alex M: So she's not here. All right, spin that wheel. All right, Sarah, congratulations. And Sarah, if you can share your address with Caitlyn, she will get a copy of the book out to you ASAP.
43:24 Alex M: All right, with that, a quick announcement. If you are, if you are ISIMS and you are not sure how things are going, you want to know what you don't know, if you are looking at a renewal decision, and not sure whether to stay with ISIMS, we have a service called the ISIMS ROI Blueprint, where we do a 
43:43 Alex M: five-week evaluation. and it's not. the last meetings, talk to every relevant stakeholder, and we give you a few things. We give you an executive overview, very digestible for high level audience, two pages.
43:54 Alex M: We give you a deck, presentation, of course, on all these subjects. We also give you a 30 page document of everything we think you need to do to optimize ISIMs, and you can execute it internally.
44:07 Alex M: We can partner with you if you need some extra bandwidth, but if you're interested in knowing more about our ISIMs ROI blueprint, drop me a line, and happy to talk to you about it.
44:17 Alex M: And with that, the floor is open. Who else has a question today? 
44:30 lorr: It's not related to an ISIM, ISIMs exactly, but, uhm, on Monday, or Tuesday and Wednesday next week, ISIMs is hosting, uhm, some system administrators for a workshop over there.
44:43 lorr: I was curious if anyone in this call is going, because I will be there. 
44:46 Alex M: Good to know. Anybody else going to be there? 
44:50 Terry Smith: Yeah, I'm actually going as well. 
44:53 Alex M: Hey. Excellent. Anybody else? I think Cheryl was thinking of going. She might be there. Great. Cool. Well, have fun and let us know.
45:07 Alex M: I did that probably eight years ago and I loved it. And the HQ there. Have you seen the show? Yeah.
45:15 lorr: Yeah. 
45:16 Alex M: Be careful. I 
45:19 Kaitlyn Faile: was going to say, I went to one a few years ago and I took a picture in a specific spot and my friends are obsessed with that picture.
45:26 Kaitlyn Faile: And they're like, you were there, bunch of nerds, but. Yeah, have a good 
45:31 Alex M: time and read the stuff on the wall. A lot of great history in Holmdel. It used to be called, uh, the Silicon Valley of the East.
45:40 Alex M: Cell phones were invented there. I think microwaves, all sorts of cool stuff. Yeah. 
45:44 Terry Smith: I last went out there when they were in Matawan. So it's been, what, 11 years, I guess, since I've been out there.
45:54 Alex M: Cool, cool. Well, have a good time. And, and take a picture, take a picture and share it with us in front of the world.
46:00 Alex M: Yeah, thank Take a Take a picture. Thank you. That's all I have. 
46:13 Terry Smith: We, we going to Yeah, no, because this call using the chatbot, the AI chatbot with the apply workflow.
46:29 Terry Smith: And the reason I'm asking is I've got them, I've got it loaded on one, I've got the chatbot loaded on one single page, uh, of our career site so that I can access live jobs.
46:42 Terry Smith: And I have the apply workflow built for one location that I'm testing. And I can't get it to work. It keeps sending me, uh, a link to the job, just like if I were doing a text to apply and it's been escalated to ISIMs.
46:58 Terry Smith: And this is a ticket that I've had open since February 2nd. I've had a number of different tickets open and even, even got Eric Connors involved in trying to get me to help, help fix it.
47:11 Terry Smith: But I just wanted to see if someone has it so that I can actually see that it's working. 
47:16 Alex M: Interesting. There was, there was a chat issue today, but I guess this is the ICARE chat. ICARE chat seems to be a little buggy today.
47:23 Alex M: But, uhm, Greg, you say you've been trying to get your team to use it, but they're hesitating. 
47:31 Greg Mendez: Yeah, it's, it's, it's just been, I, I think the concern is not technical as it's more, uhm, some of the backlash people have been seeing with, with AI, uh, and just bots in general.
47:43 Greg Mendez: And I think candidates having a kind of a, uh, a mixed perspective, uh, I mean, I know to ISIM's credit, they have been, they have been rolling out guardrails.
47:52 Greg Mendez: They've been pushing, they have both the standard and the generative piece to it. Uh, I think they're just, they're hesitant.
48:00 Greg Mendez: I get it. Um, I'll say one 
48:04 Alex M: day, well, I'll say, uh, get a little off topic, Terry. I'm sorry, but you know, I occasionally test these things.
48:09 Alex M: I was testing Paradox on a couple of sites and it basically just, it just gave me some, some links to go apply them.
48:17 Alex M: I was it didn't really engage me in a way that I felt was interesting or impressive. It wasn't really answering questions about the company.
48:25 Alex M: And I was testing some big ones too, I tested McDonald's and a few others. Um, but anybody else have this specific problem that Terry, and Terry when's the last time you actually saw it in person?
48:33 Alex M: Working in production? 
48:35 Terry Smith: Never. Oh, I have, I've not seen it work ever in production. And, and we actually had a call, uh, yesterday with Eric Connors and Lisa Allen, and, um, a while, you know, this has been a year or so, or two years ago, I guess.
48:50 Terry Smith: Um, I don't know for those of you who know Kyle Hogan, we were meeting with him as well, and Eric, about the chatbot, and it was actually supposed to be a fully conversational chatbot that could bounce back and forth between the apply process as well as a, a knowledge base.
49:07 Terry Smith: And, you know, if you're answering a question, you know, like, what's your last name, and you put that in, and then you typed in, you know, hey, can I have tattoos and work there, or something like that, it was supposed to be able to answer that question, but then guide you back to completing the application
49:24 Terry Smith: . And, uh, that's, Eric informed us that's not going to be the case. Um, right now you have, you know, you have to choose a path.
49:32 Terry Smith: You either choose a knowledge-based path, um, which does work for very well, actually, if you feed it with the right information, or you, uh, can use it with, um, the apply process.
49:45 Terry Smith: Um, I mean, if somebody would like to see the knowledge base in action, I'm more than happy to put the, uh, the page that it's on, or on our career site, so you can go and test the knowledge base.
49:57 Terry Smith: Um, but just know the apply part of it. The job search works, but the application part doesn't. So, you can ping me if you'd like to see the knowledge base in action.
50:08 Alex M: Yeah, we'd love to see that, Terry. Um, and I'll ask around. I'll see if I can find somebody, a company that has it up and running.
50:20 Alex M: We take a look at it in production. And maybe you can talk to them and see what they're doing there.
50:24 Alex M: Eric Connors is, is pretty much as high as you can go in that way, but, but, um, yeah, I'll ask around.
50:29 Terry Smith: Yeah, here, I'll put in the chat, the page, the page that the chatbot is on. 
50:34 Alex M: Nina, Nina says Pacific Dental Services, headed off to up and running when she was there, it was a few years ago.
50:41 Terry Smith: Who did, who had it up and running? 
50:43 Alex M: Pacific Dental Services. Nina, is Brian Sny still over there? 
50:50 NinaVoelker: I think he is, but I think he has moved to a different department. 
50:53 Alex M: Okay. 
50:54 NinaVoelker: In tech, but you might just check out their website and see if, you know, go into the, go into the careers and the chat and see if it does what you're talking about.
51:03 NinaVoelker: And if so, I'm sure we can find somebody who, I mean, I still talk with lots of their recruiters, so I can find them.
51:09 NinaVoelker: Find out who their tech person, their recruiting tech person is, um, but I would visit their site and just see if that, see if it has the functionality that you're talking about.
51:21 NinaVoelker: I bet 
51:21 Terry Smith: it pulls up right now. Thank you. 
51:23 NinaVoelker: Okay. You're welcome. 
51:24 Alex M: Yeah. They have, they have kept the name Ari. Okay. All right. Well, I'll test that later too. Cool. All right.
51:38 Alex M: Any other questions for the group today? All right. How's 
51:48 Kaitlyn Faile: your Benny cameo? 
51:50 Alex M: What's that? 
51:51 Kaitlyn Faile: Got a Benny cameo. 
51:52 Alex M: Oh, great. But you're blurred. We can't see. 
51:54 Kaitlyn Faile: She likes Benny. 
51:55 Alex M: There we go. Benny's huge. Benny's a full-grown cat. 
51:59 Kaitlyn Faile: Benny is 10 months old. 
52:01 Alex M: Wow. Wow. 
52:03 Kaitlyn Faile: She's a psychopath, but we 
52:04 Alex M: love her. It's, it's, I think it's a black and white cat thing. Fiona's the same way. All right, everybody. Well, it's a beautiful day outside.
52:12 Alex M: I hope you have a great weekend. See you next time. Friday at 1.30 PM. Take care, everybody.