iCIMS Hacks: Entry-Level Hiring, Data Purges & Bugs (6/5/26)

The group unpacks the entry-level hiring collapse, peak 65 retirements, and AI's role in shrinking talent pipelines. Plus: iCIMS data purge strategies, a missing-notes bug, career site misdirection issues, delaying automated emails, and a UKG Gen 3 integration deep dive.

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Transcript

 Alex M: Welcome. Welcome, everybody, to System Admin Insights.
 Alex M: So good to see you here, as always. Hope you're having a fantastic week. We like to get started on every call with a little bit of gratitude, so please drop something in chat that you are grateful for.
 Alex M: Today, I'm going to say I'm grateful for my new lucky pen. There were some little girls outside. My building with a table set up in there, they were selling bracelets and I said, well, what bracelet would would be good for me?
 Alex M: And they said, oh, how about this bedazzled pen? And I said, you know what? Great. Sold. So this is now my my bedazzled lucky pen.
 Alex M: I'm very grateful for. Young entrepreneurs in New York City. What else do we have? Rivian says, grateful for family and time to spend with them.
 Alex M: Caitlin says, ties military services. He heads out for a few weeks. Patrick says, grateful for the patience of teaching someone the power of the prompt.
 Alex M: And they're excited about moving forward with AI. That's such a big deal. You know, it really, it falls to credible messengers to cut through.
 Alex M: I mean, there's a lot to be concerned about, of course. And I don't ever mean to sugarcoat that, but, um, you know, I, I think a lot of the times we forget about the emotional work that we've all done to get comfortable with AI.
 Alex M: And I think we've all watched a few too many YouTube videos and gone down rabbit holes as we figure this stuff out for ourselves.
 Alex M: Right. tech. And not everybody has that same level of comfort or feel comfortable finding resources that they trust. So I love to hear when folks are sharing knowledge like that.
 Alex M: Greg says, AI enabled process flow chart software. Boy, have I spent some some time in Visio making charts in my day.
 Alex M: And my OCD just loves it, but not the, probably the most effective use of my time. So I'd love to hear more about that sometime, Greg, what you're using.
 Alex M: Peter says, grateful for no major fires this week. All right, Cheryl says, grateful for AI within Snowflake. Ah, was able to create a Power BI dashboard within a few hours instead of a few weeks.
 Alex M: Would love to hear about that too at some point today. That is really great. Yeah, again, another one of these things, like.
 Alex M: What's that Power BI language? I can't remember what it's called, but you know, I learned that at some point and AI can just really help so much with that stuff.
 Alex M: Daniela McDonald says, I am the proud mom of a summa c** laude and highly decorated high school student. All right.
 Alex M: Congratulations. Grateful for her accomplishment and hard work and excited for her next chapter. Congratulations, Daniela. That's awesome. Cheryl says, Dax, thank you.
 Alex M: How could I forget that? Dax is my favorite, one of my favorite Star Trek characters. All right. So with that, that's a lot of gratitude.
 Alex M: Thank you, everybody. Um, let's go ahead and I'm going to turn it over to Vivian. Vivian, you had a topic that you wanted to, to share with the group.
 Alex M: And there was an article that I dropped in chat called, We Saw It Off. The Bottom Rung and ATS Consultants Take on the Entry-Level Hiring Collapse.
 Alex M: And I'll just say one more thing here, you know. Uhm, I, uh, I'm involved in a volunteer program where high school students come and help senior citizens with their technology, with their phone.
 Alex M: They're laptops, uhm, and one of them said, uh, he really wanted to be a consultant. And he's 16. I'd share a little bit about IRD and whatnot.
 Alex M: And, uhm, you know, and I, I found myself thinking a lot about conventional pathways. Right, because there is, there is a conventional pathway toward becoming a consultant.
 Alex M: My pathway was unconventional. Uh, and in fact, I think everybody at IRD's pathway was, was unconventional. And I think a lot of us here have had unconventional careers leading into HR tech.
 Alex M: Uhm, some of those, I, I think the unconventional pathway is actually a huge asset because the conventional things are, are falling away rapidly and it's currently causing this collapse of that bottom rung.
 Alex M: So I'm excited to, to, to hear about that, Vivian. What are your thoughts on this? 
 Vivian Larsen: Well, so I went to my nephew's high school graduation last week, and he's graduated, he graduated from regular high school, but also from a tech school, because he went for being an automotive mechanic.
 Vivian Larsen: So he's already working full-time and earning more than I do. I had any right to at his age at 18, so he's kind of set up a little bit better than some of his peers, but there were a whole bunch of people in the class that are graduating and feels like IT support and technology, and I was just sitting
 Vivian Larsen: there with this quiet sense of dread going, you can't do kids are in for a much rougher ride than we were, uhm, and then it also struck me at the beginning of the graduation that they announced the retirements in the school, and this is not a big school, it's like 400 students in this graduating class
 Vivian Larsen: , I think there's a thousand students total, and like 12 teachers were retiring. Over the course of the year, so I was like, there is something up with this, and then I turned to my sister-in-law who was with, who's also a teacher, and she was like, the number of people that are retiring this year are
 Vivian Larsen: just insane, and we can't even keep up with it. Well, that's actually a demographic problem that is happening across the country.
 Vivian Larsen: Uhm, there is, back in, in the early aughts, when I was going to grad school, we were talking about how the average mean age of the American worker in the 2020s was gonna be about 47, and so this is a trend that's always been on my radar, but COVID accelerated it.
 Vivian Larsen: And this year, we're going through what they're calling peak 65, which means that 11,000 people hit retirement age a day this year.
 Vivian Larsen: Uhm, so, 65, it's called peak 65 because 2026 is going to be the worst year. We're going to see 4.1 to 4.7 million people reach retirement age and then at the same time, we're 35% fewer entry-level positions because Peace.
 Vivian Larsen: The narrative in business right now is that we're replacing all of those people with an AI license. All the folks that were our feet or bench from a skills perspective with an AI license and consistently across the board when I ran an analysis, the trend in all of those the entry-level jobs was that 
 Vivian Larsen: they were requiring 2-3 years experience. So they're not really entry-level anymore. So, the people that are going to feel this the most are our customers, the recruiters, the folks that are being told to go find a unicorn who literally can't the workforce 5 years ago and isn't interested anymore, or
 Vivian Larsen: was never trained to become that expert in the first place because they couldn't find the entry-level job to get their foot in the door.
 Vivian Larsen: So this compression is expected to be at its peak by 2032. Uhm, and the reason that I bring it to everyone's attention is now is because there are some things we can start to do to be meaningful and mindful about making noise in a good way about this to all of our businesses.
 Vivian Larsen: And so a lot of organizations, usually senior leadership, payroll, or other groups, within HR, but not the ATS folks, have access to tools like Burning Glass, and MC, and Gartner's Talent Neuron, Seek Out, Eightfold, Lightcast, there's so many of them, uhm, that are out there, and what they do is something
 Vivian Larsen: that I would have thought given my left fingernail for in my recruiting days, which is say that these are the number of people that actually have the skill set that you're looking for within the demogra-, within, like, the geography of where you need them to be, so there's 50 people with this degree,
 Vivian Larsen: there's 50 people with this specific skill set, there's, there's actually tools now that can tell you a true piece of data about where this particular purple squirrel you're trying to find exists.
 Vivian Larsen: So, do any of you currently have access to these kinds of tools, and are any of you using them? 
 Alex M: And, and can you just clarify again the, the connection between these tools and, and the labor shortages? Sure. And why, why these are so important?
 Vivian Larsen: So, if you're not training people in the position that you need to fill, and you consistently have the same kinds of openings over and over again, and the senior folks are retiring out of the workforce, you're going to have a significant decrease in your pool over the course of ten years, of the next
 Vivian Larsen: six years. So, the feeder pool that you're going to be pulling from is shrinking, because your colleagues, your professional competitors in your area are hiring 35% fewer people in the entry-level field, so where you're expecting to hire this talent pool from is shrinking at the same time that all the
 Vivian Larsen: senior knowledge is leaving, and so having the ability to show leadership that, over the last five years, there have been 5% fewer of this particular kind of candidate that we recruit on a regular basis is an argument for increasing your salary.
 Vivian Larsen: It's an argument for doing things to make yourself more competitive within the market. 
 Alex M: So you're saying, even though there are more unemployed younger people coming out of college because of AI and automation, there is now a difference.
 Alex M: There's different factor at play here, which is they're looking for junior people potentially who have a higher skill set than they would normally have, and they're not getting the opportunities to develop those skill sets because they're not being hired to do the junior things that people used to be
 Alex M: hired 
 Vivian Larsen: to do. Because we automated a lot of it away with AI. 
 Alex M: Okay, okay. Yeah, I get it. Greg, you had a thought? 
 Greg Mendez: Yeah, actually, this actually reminds me of really good info. Infographics, for those who haven't heard it, it's a great podcast where they break down complex things into like almost animation.
 Greg Mendez: Uh, good to have in the gym. They, I was just listening on a topic about this, I think just a couple of days ago.
 Greg Mendez: What makes this particularly sensitive, I mean, think back when you were going out of college, when you graduated from college or high school, there was a deal, right?
 Greg Mendez: A deal with society. I worked hard and I follow these things. I I wasn't guaranteed to be rich, but if I follow this, I had a good increased chance.
 Greg Mendez: And in Infographics and a few others, as Vinny has mentioned, you can have this breakdown in the contract, right? You know, I go to college for computer science.
 Greg Mendez: I go for coding. I'll get this. And so, what really hit hard with those layoffs for companies in meta, uh, in tech, in Silicon Valley, and then not being able, and then the combine that with not being able to offer the traditional entry-level roles, um, a lot are seen as almost a violation.
 Greg Mendez: Like, how am I supposed to get that? It's a big conundrum. How do you want to get those two, three years experience if I'm not able to get into those entry-level roles that allow me to build the experience you're looking for?
 Greg Mendez: Um, we actually did, we, you know, for a while we looked at eightfold, um, I'm gonna be honest, I wasn't terribly impressed by it.
 Greg Mendez: Um, by the AI, I think it, it, it gave me a lot of false positives and I think it's an algorithm that right now, um, I'm not quite sure about, but I think it has potential, I think it, it definitely works much better, I think, for small, medium businesses, um, if you're, like, you're approaching anything
 Greg Mendez: like a Fortune 250, 500, 1000, I think you're getting challenged, you get just too much in the pipe, um, but Burning Glass has been definitely, like, you know, on our radar, uh, the Gartner, definitely been there.
 Greg Mendez: They're on our radar as well. I think with them it's just they're very expensive solutions, but they're beautiful when you can get them integrated, especially with both the ATS and HRS.
 Greg Mendez: What we've been having to do is say, hey, what can we do over the next few years with what we have?
 Greg Mendez: Um, especially, We're higher ed, so we're seeing a lot of a combination of both funding cuts from the government, plus, along with the population, we're seeing a smaller population of students, so you have to pay for that dip in enrollment.
 Greg Mendez: Um, so what you're seeing, you're going to be hearing from, you're probably hearing from clients, they're using, they're using their HRS, and go back to HRS, this is like Workday, or UKG, and say, hey, what solutions do you have for tracking skills, professional development, and I could use that until
 Greg Mendez: either the industry catches up to a point where the numbers make a lot more budget sense, iSIMS comes out, what a solution that we think could work, or, you know, you know, the prices for burning glass or something like that just drop, or we get a bigger budget.
 Vivian Larsen: Well, there's also LinkedIn Talent Insights, which is one that I personally have not used, but to me seems like the probably more entry-level option would be.
 Greg Mendez: And we're like, we have LinkedIn Insights. Again, I think where they get you is on the pricing, but, uh, a number of our recruiters, they just recently came back from a LinkedIn event a few weeks ago, and they were talking about both.
 Greg Mendez: You know, LinkedIn's use of AI and LinkedIn Insights and how it can be integrated. I mean, you can, to a certain extent, integrate some of that into iSIMS, uh, but LinkedIn is very sensitive and as they should, their business model is not in the, I want to integrate You want to keep it in-house and only
 Greg Mendez: , and be very careful what they're sharing outside their, outside their, their, their universe, which I completely understand. 
 Alex M: So we're talking about two things. We're talking about finding those needles in a haystack, but also cultivating that talent. Cheryl, you mentioned that you hire lots of interns at Principal, and a lot of the interns have had multiple internships.
 Alex M: Um, can you tell us a little bit more about that? 
 Cheryl Callaway: Yeah, so I know a long time ago, um, people have tried to, like, nix our intern program, especially, you know, in, when in college.
 Cheryl Callaway: The economy is, like, you know, harder, and we're not, we're trying not to spend money, but we found that, you know, we hire probably, like, 250, 200 to 250 interns a year, and they're kind of our feeder, um, especially in the middle you harder to fill areas like, you know, Actuary, Accounting, um, IT
 Cheryl Callaway: , as much as strange as that sounds, the IT piece is mainly because, like you said, a lot of times people are looking for a couple of years of experience, but, you know, they want entry level.
 Cheryl Callaway: Well, the interns kind of fill that because not only do they learn, you know, at our company, but we've also noticed that many of the, um, interns have had multiple interns at different places, right?
 Cheryl Callaway: So, and in different areas. So it's kind of like they're testing out, like, you know, do I want to go into this kind of, like, IT area or that IT area?
 Cheryl Callaway: Um, so we noticed, like, they've, they start having internships in their, like, sophomore, junior years. So it's not just like one internship towards the end of their, their school, their schooling, right?
 Cheryl Callaway: They're having multiples. Um, so it's been very interesting to see that, but we do hire a chunk of them. Um, like, not a lot, like, you know, if there's 250, I mean, we're not hiring 250 people, but we do hire a lot of them into those more entry-level positions.
 Cheryl Callaway: So for us, it's been really interesting. It's really great because we're able to find people that are entry-level with a decent amount of experience, right, but not necessarily actual work experience, like true work experience.
 Alex M: You know, I'm curious about the intern population in particular, Vivian, at one point. There's an you talk about, uh, AI native judgment and the need for that to be cultivated from the start.
 Alex M: Are, are, are you seeing that interns have a type of AI judgment that, uh, older generation workers do not? And I remember this has been a conversation over the years with like the incoming generation, just being digitally savvy in various ways, uh, whether with, with, with laptops or mobiles or whatever
 Alex M: the case may be for those of us who are in our late forties and whatnot. We've seen these waves. Um, and the biggest criticism.
 Alex M: I hear from educators is that AI is used by young people to skip over, uh, learning, uh, depth and whatever the area is.
 Alex M: I'm just curious if anybody has observations on that. Charlotte, have you experienced interns, uh, using AI? 
 Cheryl Callaway: I'm not as close to the intern space, but I wouldn't be surprised. I mean, you know, I, I'm on, like, message boards a lot, and I think I see a lot of people saying that they use AI to do, for example, coding.
 Cheryl Callaway: But of course, the more experienced people come out and they say, okay, but you shouldn't be vibe coding, right? Like you should understand what the code is and how to understand, like, what it's doing so that you can catch that.
 Cheryl Callaway: Those weird things and things like that. So I do know that they're using it though. I mean, but I feel like a lot of people in that area is also using it.
 Cheryl Callaway: And just the fact that my own company pushes us to use AI. So, you know, just, it's interesting. 
 Vivian Larsen: It kind of reminds me of what you were telling us about the other day. 
 Kaitlyn Faile: First, I can speak to the interns with AI. My general consensus is that those that are trained to use it.
 Kaitlyn Faile: Really. The it's intended are much more fluent and comfortable with it. Whereas the vast majority of people, interns and not interns for that matter, uh, use it as Google.
 Kaitlyn Faile: And I attended a webinar a few weeks ago and the question was basically like, what's your comfort level with agentic AI?
 Kaitlyn Faile: And I was the only person in this webinar of like 250 people who said five, like, I know what I'm doing.
 Kaitlyn Faile: I can do this. And they called me out and were like, whoa, that's really impressive because everybody else was just like, I just use it like Google.
 Kaitlyn Faile: And so I think that was really cool. It interesting to hear from people across several different industries that just exposure to it has so much value that I think we miss out on.
 Alex M: Agreed. 
 Vivian Larsen: And I think the point of it is. Is not necessarily to say AI good and like all interns should use AI.
 Vivian Larsen: It's just simply. It's going to be a skill the workforce is going to need and. Not having the feeder pool of people that have basically been taught to use it educated in a good system that uses it and had it as part of the cell phone in their hand like we did every day is also going to be a gap in three
 Vivian Larsen: to five years when we start to actually hire people because those people are not going to get to continue to develop those skills that they have come out of school with in a professional setting and the learning curve is going to be bigger for them.
 Vivian Larsen: So, you know, Patrick, you, you mentioned that in, in the GovCon world, you're seeing this now, uhm, that you're only hiring experienced people.
 Vivian Larsen: Do you want to speak to that a little bit? 
 Patrick Crumby: Yeah, our recruiters, uhm, they, they, they're challenged every day with, uhm, hiring managers wanting them to find unicorns because, you know, they're like, we got to have experience, but it's an entry-level position.
 Patrick Crumby: And then, of course, you know, in the GovCon world, you're competing against other contractors and other competitors. So, it, it's getting difficult to find entry-level positions without saying, hey, you need to have two to three years experience.
 Patrick Crumby: You know, like, one of our positions we have is Red Team Operator. Never heard of that term before. And, you know, there's a difference between real-world experience and sitting at home and doing Red Team operations.
 Patrick Crumby: And there was a candidate that was overly qualified for the position, and they wanted it, but the hiring manager was like, Hmm, sorry, you don't have two to three years.
 Patrick Crumby: And the person that did get hired, that did have two to three years, he was fired within a month. So, it's a good give and take type situation.
 Patrick Crumby: So, yeah, it's, it's happening in the GovCon world where we're seeing, you know, the talent pool is shrinking, and it's going to eat itself, basically.
 Alex M: I think the irony of these sophisticated talent sourcing tools is that they can only measure things that are measurable. Right?
 Alex M: And, you know, having myself benefited from many opportunities where somebody saw who I was as a person and my potential and, and gave me an opportunity that I was not qualified for in paper, uhm, that I feel is the is often missing in the conversation.
 Alex M: It's easy for a hiring manager to point at X number of years or this and that certification, obviously the certification's required, it's non-negotiable, but, but I think I, I think you get where I'm going with that, like, um, how all of these tools sometimes get in the way of somebody getting an opportunity
 Alex M: who would be just immensely grateful for, I'm seeing some, some, some positive emojis here. Yeah, I think a lot of us have experienced that.
 Alex M: Um, Vivian, so to wrap this up, what are the implications for folks sitting in the sysadmin? What do you think they should be doing to learn more about this and prepare?
 Vivian Larsen: Well, more to come on, I'm going to give you a little foreshadowing of something else that I'm writing at the moment.
 Vivian Larsen: There's a massive study that was just done about, um, the kind of assessment tools that are out there and the exposure that those assessment tools can have.
 Vivian Larsen: And so, to companies because they're using the same, the same exact assessment for the same candidate across multiple organizations. Um, so, for me, the biggest thing that I can think as an analyst, as a consultant, is start looking at all the different tools that you have.
 Vivian Larsen: That are acting as gatekeepers, because those gatekeepers are going to be your detriment in the coming years. Um, and start having realistic conversations with your internal folks about how harmful and negative to your overall success as a business, requiring experience from someone in an entry-level
 Vivian Larsen: role is, start thinking about ways you can reframe what an intern is and what an entry-level role is within your organization, because if you can show them the damage and you next that we are going to walk into by 2032, which is when all of the trends seem to be coming to a head, and how you can mitigate
 Vivian Larsen: that within your own personal organization and industry, by being mindful about it now. If you can start having those conversations internally, maybe we can steer the ship a little bit away from the wreck we're heading towards.
 Vivian Larsen: Yeah. 
 Alex M: Thank you. All right, let's jump on over to our ISIMS questions. Cordell, you had one about Data Warehouse, vendor for ISIMS data.
 Cordell Ratner: Uh, so, so I think I'm gonna, to, to twist this a little bit. So the, the background is that we are now starting to get into the data cleanup purge mode.
 Cordell Ratner: And, um, one of the items that we're thinking about and really what I wouldn't want to do is talk is pull the audience out here, how they're doing purges.
 Cordell Ratner: But we are going to, I guess there's a concern that we have some people that may, we, our legal team may want to have of their data and how they're held aside, and we wouldn't want to purge them.
 Cordell Ratner: And I realized that if we don't set up this forced purge schedule that we put people into a purge folder and we have to manually purge them, which is fine.
 Cordell Ratner: We get a chance to look at that data. My original question had to do with any of the companies, people out here, are they archiving data?
 Cordell Ratner: And if so, can they recommend a vendor? But I'm really now mostly, I'm interested in that, but I'm also interested in, are, as part of the purging process, are people setting up this forced purge, or are they not wanting to have the system automatically purge people?
 Cordell Ratner: How, how is that going, the purging process, for other people out there? Does anybody purge anybody? 
 Greg Mendez: So, we do purge, definitely, to, if someone requests a data deletion request, we do that. Uhm, there's a project right now happening, as we speak, where they're reviewing our, our key systems, including ISIMs, about what does it mean to purge, how long we should be keeping data, and Vivian, do you be
 Greg Mendez: happy to know that they're probably, for, at least for ATSR, we're gonna float down to somewhere around three to five years, uhm, which is a big, big departure, because we have data going back to 2016, so, you know, just doing that purge, yeah.
 Greg Mendez: Uhm, we've discussed some stuff. We've scenarios about, you know, what if someone needs to be kept there for various legal reasons, and creating a flag so that if there's, you know, we know, regardless if it's a manual purge or automatic, it can be flagged and put aside, as long as you have a justifiable
 Greg Mendez: reason, that's great, uhm, I think where we're trying to get into their minds is thinking, you know, if you purge, because I have a separate system that's not ISIMs, where they purge and they need to dump, put it into an archive.
 Greg Mendez: And what I just said is, what you've done is basically, you've taken, you've given, removed the risk from the vendor, and you've put 100% of risk on yourselves.
 Greg Mendez: So the question is, do you want that? Not to mention the price it's going to take to store that, secure that.
 Greg Mendez: Uh, so do you, you know, wouldn't it be better just to purge? If it's purge, let it happen. If a system wants to automatically purge, it follows your rules, let it happen naturally.
 Greg Mendez: What is the risk? So I guess the question I have, we have out to our general legal teams and compliance teams is what is the risk that you're concerned about that, you know, if that, that data goes away and then does that outweigh any, anything that might come back?
 Greg Mendez: Including, and it was Vivian's talk, Vivian and Axel have talked about this multiple times, the chance that there could be something that comes down the pipe that where an opposing counsel or team discovers something that you didn't know about, and that could be used to get evidence to.
 Greg Mendez: So that's been a question. Also we've been throwing idea of anonymization around a lot, just having enough data to be, to run inaggregate reports and everything else purge completely.
 Greg Mendez: That's. Where they're at, I think they're going to be leaning towards kind of a, you know, in certain systems, automatic purge.
 Greg Mendez: We're not still comfortable doing an automatic purge with ISIMs. I just, just not there yet. Um, but we're, we're a manual purge periodically.
 Greg Mendez: We're going to, um, twice a year, following certain rules that they're looking, they're looking to do, but it would, data purge from ISIMs, for example, would not be moved into a warehouse.
 Greg Mendez: It would be, it would be gone. 
 Alex M: Vivian, thoughts on purging? 
 Vivian Larsen: Why do you need to keep it? And I know it sounds like a really cheeky question to ask you, but really, what is the argument for keeping that data past four or five years?
 Vivian Larsen: Do you have to? I have a good one. In most cases, it's just the discomfort of letting something that you paid to acquire go.
 Vivian Larsen: Uhm, I have yet to come across a customer that had a very specific or valid reason for needing that data beyond four or five years.
 Vivian Larsen: Because it's, it's not going to be active. It's secure anymore. Those people's entire resumes could have changed, profile, you know, entire professions could have pivoted.
 Vivian Larsen: They could have retired. Like, there's, there's just no real value. If you have an HRIS integration, especially because you're a long-term data provider.
 Vivian Larsen: Data around your employees is in the system of record, which is the HRIS, which is where it should be. And in ATS, it should just simply be hiring decisions and anything related to talent analytics and that type of stuff.
 Vivian Larsen: Uhm, so I get on a soapbox about that. This one, and I will shut up now, but I will just say, do you have a good argument for trying to keep the information?
 Vivian Larsen: And if you don't, why not just delete it? Especially if you're in a migration effort at the moment. 
 Alex M: I play devil's advocate. Wonderful. What about getting a data enrichment tool, taking all of those records and enriching them so they're current?
 Vivian Larsen: Did they give you permission to do that? The candidates specifically, because now you're going against GDPR. Now you're using an AI tool that is also against all the new AI.
 Vivian Larsen: rules, or could potentially give exposure to risk with all the new AI rules. I mean, so, yeah, there is an argument for that, especially if you're in a really difficult market with a lot of really hard kinds of candidates to find.
 Vivian Larsen: I mean, you're talking to somebody who used to keep spreadsheets of people that she would source out of. Like, conferences and stuff like that as a recruiter, so I can absolutely see the instincts to keep that kind of information, but there's, there's a risk and a reward, and you're exposing yourself
 Vivian Larsen: to risk that I personally think is unnecessary by, by doing that kind of thing. 
 Alex M: Michelle said we are also in now adopting a retention policy for years and are considering whether to automate or handle manually.
 Alex M: Uh, Greg said it's the same argument when it comes to cleaning out the closet. Indeed. But this is such a great shirt.
 Alex M: It's such a great shirt. It's my favorite. Uh, Cheryl says we have a six-year retention policy, which was decided up by our legal risk and compliance departments.
 Alex M: We have different policies for different countries. All our purges are manual. Different policies for, for different countries due to different legislation.
 Alex M: I guess? Yeah. 
 Cheryl Callaway: Yes. So, I believe, like, for an example, we purge our Mexico data, I want to say, like, every six months or something, or every quarter, we purge, like, however many, how, I forgot how long it long the retention policy is.
 Cheryl Callaway: I don't think it's very long, though. I think it's only, like, maybe a two-year or something like that, but it's pretty short.
 Cheryl Callaway: Funny enough, we haven't even had, uhm, ISIMs long enough to begin our six-year purge. So, it's been funny. Mm-hmm. Great.
 Alex M: Cordell, any other thoughts 
 Cordell Ratner: on that? No, we're running up against our, in fact, I think we're now over our time limit. We've gone for four years also, and we've had ISIMs for five or five and a half years.
 Cordell Ratner: And, yeah, so, okay, no, the answers are great. Thank you for the feedback and the conversation. 
 Alex M: Absolutely, thank you for the question. Uh, one call out here, so Nina shared, we were talking about Digital Assistant last week, and see you, Townsend, good to see you.
 Alex M: Uh, and, uh, Nina shared that WellPath has Digital Assistant Q&A specifically turned on. Um, so, you can see here, I asked how many employees work at WellPath.
 Alex M: Um, I asked any nursing jobs in Texas specifically. They don't have some of the other things turned on, but they do have this turned on.
 Alex M: So, if you want to see it in action, you can check out the WellPath career site. Um, Cheryl, did you want to talk about this one?
 Alex M: Required note on decline, but no notes saved? 
 Cheryl Callaway: Yeah, so, um, one of the things that we ask our hiring managers to do is, to go into the system, we move, they, they move them to a reject status that just says, like, suggest decline.
 Cheryl Callaway: And they're supposed to, it's required that they add a note in there. So, like, it's just a, um, auto launch, um, what do you call it, note for just the workflow.
 Cheryl Callaway: So it's not, like, a rejection reason, right? Um, so a gentleman went into our, the system, said, oh, hey, I moved them.
 Cheryl Callaway: And then, of course, the recruiter was, like, uh, no, you didn't. So can you email me? And then he's, like, yes, I did.
 Cheryl Callaway: And so they reached out to us, um, and asked, like, we, they actually said, we've noticed this happens, has happened in the past.
 Cheryl Callaway: It doesn't happen often, but it happens. And I can clearly see in the data and the, um, audit trials that the hiring manager moved the campus.
 Cheryl Callaway: And in order for him to move the candidate, because, um, I did log in as him and test something else out, he does need to actually complete the whole action.
 Cheryl Callaway: So he needs to, you know, write something in the note. So even if you add in blanks, right, to hit that minimum, it still creates a new note, but there was no note.
 Cheryl Callaway: I even looked in our like data warehouse to see if maybe a note went through, but somehow somebody like deleted it, nothing.
 Cheryl Callaway: So I was like, okay, well, it was never created. Um, we haven't reached out to ISIMS yet, but. I was just wondering if anybody else is like pretty much like has experiences.
 Cheryl Callaway: Obviously it's not a every single time type of thing, but it is a once in a while and just seems so random.
 Cheryl Callaway: I know a couple of people called out like transfer activity, um, bulk movements and, um, possibly like login group issues or something like that.
 Cheryl Callaway: Um, we don't use transfer activity. The, the, um, hiring managers probably don't even know how to do bulk edits. So I would most likely assume it wasn't, but I can double check that.
 Cheryl Callaway: And the login group has been like this since day one. So we're like, we have no idea. 
 Greg Mendez: Have you been able to reproduce it at all? 
 Cheryl Callaway: Um, I have not, I've tried it about like five or six times. The other day and like nothing reproduced it.
 Cheryl Callaway: I have no idea what they're doing. Like I tried to cancel out of it and it was like, no, well, that didn't move.
 Cheryl Callaway: Like that didn't move it. Or I type something in and then cancel out or I tried all kinds of different things.
 Vivian Larsen: Is it consistently the same people? 
 Cheryl Callaway: No. 
 Vivian Larsen: Hmm. I'm thinking pop-up blocker. That there's some kind of pop-up stopper in there. Yeah, that's where I'm going with that question.
 Vivian Larsen: Uhm, that it might be something in their browser settings that is auto-closing. Closing a pop-up, and I seem to somehow incorrectly reading that as completing the action.
 Cheryl Callaway: Well, they say though that they type it in. They've typed in the reason. So, assuming that they're not lying, I mean, let's just assume they're not.
 Cheryl Callaway: We all know how that can go, but let's assume they're not lying. The fact that most times, because we ask recruiters, like, if they do, if there is no note, but it got moved, do they tell you like they entered a note?
 Cheryl Callaway: And they all say, yes, they entered a note. Just, I don't know if it's just some weird glitch that happens every so often, but I've never seen this before.
 Cheryl Callaway: So I thought I would ask. 
 Vivian Larsen: Do you have a number of people that it has happened to? Like, 
 Cheryl Callaway: do 
 Vivian Larsen: have any idea how frequent the 
 Cheryl Callaway: problem is? Oh, uhm, from what the, I, I talked to about two or three recruiters, and from what they said, It is.
 Cheryl Callaway: Not common, like, if this happened, it's like maybe once a month, maybe once every few months out of all of like, you know, the hiring managers that are in the system, touching things.
 Cheryl Callaway: So, you know, we're. 
 Vivian Larsen: Run a report on the workflow status. Itself, and then run a merge on a contact notes search to see if a contact note is present for all of 
 Cheryl Callaway: those people. I probably could, uhm. 
 Vivian Larsen: The only reason I'm saying that is I think this is a bug. Uhm, I think you've either got a pop up blocker issue or a browser issue happening on their side, and the only way you're really going to be able to get the helpdesk to do anything meaningful with it is with data now where you can come in and 
 Vivian Larsen: say I have 40 cases. Here's the examples and then. Even if you get one of the end users to produce a HAR file while they're going through creating it, that would really help them solve it.
 Vivian Larsen: But without any kind of data, I know it's a hiring manager. I don't expect you 
 Cheryl Callaway: to be able to do that. 
 Vivian Larsen: But that would basically be something they'll probably ask you for. 
 Cheryl Callaway: Right, yeah, no, I didn't think of that. think about the report, I could probably do that. Hopefully the notes won't be too big.
 Vivian Larsen: Daniella called out in the comments, is there a hidden field for you or certain user groups? So when you run your report, also include the hiring managers that did not have it in your report, that moved the candidates to the action and the candidates that didn't have the status.
 Vivian Larsen: And then I would just double check their permissions for contact notes themselves. Uhm, so it wouldn't necessarily be a field, Daniela, that would cause the problem, but if they don't have the ability to write a note, like if there's something wrong in their logging group permissions.
 Cheryl Callaway: Well, yeah, no, that makes sense. However, keep in mind, like, this logging group since day one has been created. Like, we never changed anything, so it's the same, and the way that we have our logging group set up is our hiring managers, like, uhm, basically anybody in the US has access to a dashboard
 Cheryl Callaway: because we do not determine, like, you're a hiring manager, you're an interviewer, you're not a hiring manager. So it's either you have full access or you have that limited access.
 Cheryl Callaway: Everybody at the company is like that. So it's really weird, right? Yeah. I'll see what I can find in the data because I feel like if this is enough that I can find it in the data.
 Cheryl Callaway: Especially with the movements without a, without a note, uhm, I could take that to Isamson at least. Yeah. Good idea.
 Cheryl Callaway: Good idea. I didn't think about that. Good idea. 
 Alex M: Thank you for the question, Cheryl. 
 Cheryl Callaway: Yep. Thank you. 
 Alex M: A quick announcement, uhm, I'm talking to a couple of folks about setting up a hackathon for HR tech, and so if you are doing any vibe coding yourself or you would be interested in participating in some way, possibly as a judge, uh, this will most likely be in September.
 Alex M: Uh, we don't have a calendar date yet, but this is something that we're working on, and, and the, what we're trying to do is we're trying to both, uh, give exposure, uh, to these tools to TA leaders.
 Alex M: So they can see what's possible, and also, uh, give experience to sysadmins who are working with these tools to meet other people who are doing similar things, and be able to message up the value of these things.
 Alex M: Patrick shared something amazing a few weeks ago that he, uh, has been working on. So if you're involved in doing anything like that, and you would like to, to know more about this event, please DM me, and, um, I, I'm connecting with folks who, who have interest in that area, and more, more details will
 Alex M: follow in the next few weeks. Um, amazing. Amanda, good to see you, Amanda. Amanda, I, I think I have to sing since you're here.
 Alex M: Amanda. 
 Amanda Trammel: Love it. You've got to do that every 
 Alex M: time now. Every time you hear I'll sing, I promise. How are you doing today? 
 Amanda Trammel: I'm doing well. How are you? 
 Alex M: Doing fine. What's going on in your world? 
 Amanda Trammel: Oh, you know, AI, like everybody else, fighting it and trying to learn it and hating it and loving it all at the same time.
 Alex M: Yeah. Sounds familiar. 
 Amanda Trammel: Yeah. 
 Alex M: Any specific aspect of it that's giving you nausea right now? Well, 
 Amanda Trammel: trying to to explain the difference between automation and AI to people that should know the difference between automation and AI is my current struggle.
 Amanda Trammel: So that's a good time. Yeah. 
 Alex M: And, um, how do you frame it? Do you have a go-to metaphor or way? Way of expressing it that's landing with people?
 Amanda Trammel: My, my biggest, uhm, way that I approach it is, is if it's something that, that you can run by asking a question or, or a prompt or what have you.
 Amanda Trammel: And, uhm. And you can come to me and I can troubleshoot it. If it doesn't work, right, then it's probably automation.
 Amanda Trammel: If I can't troubleshoot it and it's owned by the vendor and this is just in our world, so it's probably not applicable to everybody, but if I can't troubleshoot it and there's not a lot of, you know, backend available, then it's automation.
 Amanda Trammel: It's likely an AI-driven tool. 
 Alex M: Interesting. It's interesting framing like that. And are you, is this pertained directly to ISIMs or to other products in your stack?
 Amanda Trammel: Um, both actually. So, um, we're revisiting the Talent Cloud AI Explorer, I think is what it's called now. Changes names every time I revisit it.
 Amanda Trammel: Um, so kind of wanting to educate some new executives on our team about what it is. What's available, why we turned it off to begin with, and all of that kind of fun conversation.
 Amanda Trammel: Because, you know, we have some executives that are very eager about AI, and then we have some, um, more experienced folks on the staff that are like, no, we've tried that.
 Amanda Trammel: You want to go down that path again? No. It's interesting. 
 Alex M: I wanted to share an article that I put on the blog, what CHRO should actually ask AI hiring vendors about.
 Alex M: Compliance, uhm, and, uh, so this is very, this came out of the hackathon event that I went to and I was talking to people about this.
 Alex M: There are very specific things that you can ask about what they are doing that meet the standards. The standards that are currently in place, so I encourage everybody to check out this article, particularly the ISO IEC 42001.
 Alex M: That's, that's a big one, and we're asking the vendors that we talked to that we are thinking of bringing in for a product deep dive for Friday calls.
 Alex M: We're asking them these questions. Um, Caitlyn, you had a couple things you want to talk about. 
 Kaitlyn Faile: Yes. So, first up, we're going to be doing some revamping in SAI, so I'm going to be sending out some surveys so you'll hear from me either in DM or via email over there.
 Kaitlyn Faile: So the next couple of weeks as I start to create that plan. And then the other thing, I have a client who is particularly interested in talking to people who have multi-brand tenants in one single ISIMS instance And day.
 Kaitlyn Faile: And how you navigate that. So I know you guys have sometimes coordinated calls amongst each other. If anyone is open to joining that call, I'm happy to coordinate and get you guys kind of all in the room together to brainstorm and talk about what that looks like, what you do, how you protect everybody's
 Kaitlyn Faile: individual brand and Thank All that fun stuff. So if you're interested, send me either an email, DM, or you can just comment in the chat and I will add you to my list.
 Alex M: All right. Thank you. 
 Kaitlyn Faile: Thank you. 
 Alex M: The floor is open. We have another 15 minutes, we'll get us has a question today. No question too big or small.
 Michelle Braunschweig: Hey, Alex, I got one. It's Michelle with ECG. 
 Alex M: Hi, Michelle. 
 Michelle Braunschweig: And, uh, hi. So I'm just wondering if anybody is having any issues with ApplyNetwork. We enabled it way back when they first launched it, kind of in a test mode, and then discovered, oh, it doesn't collect the EEO.
 Michelle Braunschweig: information that we need to have. So we turned it off. I mean, it's still, it still exists, but I don't have any jobs set up to access it.
 Michelle Braunschweig: And then suddenly this week, we started getting applications that say the source origin is ApplyNetwork, and everything's fine. So I'm just curious if anybody's run across that.
 Alex M: Even though ApplyNetwork isn't turned on. 
 Michelle Braunschweig: Not on the jobs. Like the, the original integration I created is still on the backend, but we haven't been, we haven't done anything with it in the, I think, couple of years since ApplyNetwork came into work.
 Michelle Braunschweig: It was originally launched, and now that they've improved it, it's kind of on my downstream radar to take another look and, and maybe start using it.
 Michelle Braunschweig: But, um, we weren't there yet. I don't have it prepared. 
 Alex M: So we talked about AppliNetwork back in October. Vivian, any thoughts on that? 
 Vivian Larsen: No, nothing meaningful to add, but I will say this. Um, Jess, you seem to be the one that we've turned to as an AppliNetwork expert because you've played with it the most.
 Vivian Larsen: Are you on the call? 
 Alex M: Uh, Jessica Smith is not on the call, if 
 Vivian Larsen: that's what you mean. She's not on the call. So, Jessie Smith has talked about 
 Michelle Braunschweig: AppliNetwork a couple of 
 Vivian Larsen: different times, so maybe direct message her? 
 Michelle Braunschweig: Sounds good. Alright, thanks. 
 Alex M: Anybody else? Anybody else have thoughts on AppliNetwork? Miss Farring? Alright, and Amanda, I see your comment, are you interested in the multi-brand talk?
 Alex M: Great, fantastic. Alright, let's see, who else do we have today? Okay. Kathy Nava, how are you doing, Kathy? 
 Kathy Nava: I'm doing good, thank you. Yeah, what's going on in the world? 
 Alex M: Happy Friday to you. What's going on with you? 
 Kathy Nava: Um, not, not much, really. I mean, so far, everything's great. Everything is fine. I'm just, uh, I have been in and out, so I'm trying to play catch-up at this point, so I don't have any new pressing, uhm, issues or anything like that.
 Kathy Nava: Although, I just, the only thing I, I could say is that, uh, we were trying to create a, a new career portal for myself.
 Kathy Nava: For our customer service division, and when I noticed when they prepared the link, you know how ISENS will send you the links, so you can kinda review uhm, it was like a totally different website link and I'm like that's not ours, you know, it's just, and I think I've seen something come through saying
 Kathy Nava: that ISEMS has been sending different links that are not, you know, what you would expect it to be. So, uhm, that was the only thing that, that I found that I, I kicked back to ISEMS saying this is not our web, our portal.
 Kathy Nava: So. 
 Alex M: Did you post that? Because I think I 
 Kathy Nava: saw it. No, I didn't. No, I don't think I did, but I did see someone, I did see a posting like that, um, because I was like, oh, see, it's happening, because it just happened to me, too, after I read that.
 Alex M: Yeah, I can't find it right now, but yeah, I know, but somebody posted in here about that. Anybody else having that issue where career sites getting directed the wrong way?
 Cordell Ratner: We had a big issue. A couple of weeks ago, where our jobs were not showing up on our career site, but somebody else's jobs were, uhm, 
 Peter Lara: and, 
 Cordell Ratner: well, and they had to. 
 Vivian Larsen: That's actually happened before. I've seen that error before. That happened a long time, like four or five years ago, where it was a big deal when they first set career sites up.
 Alex M: And Michelle said she had that, too. What is going on? 
 Cordell Ratner: Yeah, I didn't get the root cause of it yet. I still have my case open, hoping to get something you mentioned.
 Cordell Ratner: I don't know if it's fortunately or not, but it was a one-day experience. We don't know why.
 Kaitlyn Faile: Just in the pop-up when that was happening, they called it the incident. 
 Alex M: Kat somewhere stepped on someone's keyboard. 
 Vivian Larsen: What most likely happened is they did their monthly update and somebody had a piece of code that wasn't fully tested in the monthly update.
 Vivian Larsen: And it broke something and then they had to scurry back and fix it. Curiously, do any of you know what wave you're in?
 Vivian Larsen: Because usually if you're in wave 1 or 2, you experience more of those problems than people in waves 3 and 4.
 Kathy Nava: Great. Yeah, I'm in wave 1. 
 Vivian Larsen: Ah, there 
 Kathy Nava: you go! I was going 
 Vivian Larsen: to move you to wave 4 for the future because save yourself the pain and let other people 
 Kathy Nava: experience I wonder if that's an option. Make it a request. That would be amazing. 
 Vivian Larsen: My customers make a stink and be 
 Kathy Nava: moved, 
 Vivian Larsen: so if you scream loud enough, they'll do it. 
 Kathy Nava: Yeah, I have my CSM call on Monday, so, uhm, we'll see. Yeah, that's definitely something to do, 
 Vivian Larsen: is just try to see if you can move to a later wave and avoid some of the early pain. 
 Kathy Nava: Totally, yeah. 
 Vivian Larsen: But, yeah, so usually they do a monthly update. It could have changed this a little bit since I left. I was there, it has been a minute since I've had these conversations with them, but usually they'll do, like, a monthly bug fix push, and it usually rolls out, usually at the end of the month, or at 
 Vivian Larsen: the very beginning of the month, depending on how their, uhm, sprint schedule works, uhm, and so if everybody experienced it at the same time, they broke something, and then they had to scurry back and fix it.
 Vivian Larsen: It's not the first time that, that's pretty common in software in general, uhm, but if you're not in the first wave, you usually don't see the problem.
 Alex M: How do you, how do you get a sense of, how one software stacks up against another in terms of its potential to do things like that?
 Alex M: How old is it? 
 Vivian Larsen: How old is it? And when I say how old is it, uhm, so I've worked in the software industry for 20-plus years, and I will tell you, I have seen some spaghetti code databases that are, like, trying to untangle a box of twisted wires when you try to actually update anything.
 Vivian Larsen: Uhm, so if it's, if it's a really old technology and it's based on an older code base, and it's, you know, more than 20 years old, you're probably going to run into a lot of, like, dead ends.
 Vivian Larsen: So basically, they're like trees, and somebody stopped developing that tree and cut that tree off, but now it's still doing something, so you can't take it away, because some customers are using it, and it winds up being, like, this little cancer that continues to grow in the code base.
 Vivian Larsen: So, you, the older a software is from its inception, to me, is a sign that you're going to start seeing some more of this tech debt that we've talked about before accumulate, or at least that's been my experience.
 Alex M: Yeah. I mean, there's no, I think there's no better way to understand technical debt than vibe coding. Uh, you're going to learn really very quickly about spaghetti code.
 Alex M: And, uh, one of the things I'm doing now with the projects I'm working on is, uh, maintaining a data architecture document.
 Alex M: And I, I recommend this to anybody. Anybody who's playing around with these tools, you can actually have, I use cloud code and you can tell cloud code to have a markdown file in your local repo that documents.
 Alex M: We talk a lot about system documentation and institutional memory and whatnot. So it will automatically update the data architecture document as it is coding things, right, to prevent, so that a year from now, whatever, when the decision has been forgotten why something was done, it is documented somewhere
 Alex M: , can be referenced. All right, who else has a question today? Peter, you're unmuted, did you have a question? 
 Peter Lara: Um, I don't know if this has been brought up here before, because I'm not, I don't, I tend to be Friday, but, um, I think like most companies we've been playing around with, uh, hiring automation a lot.
 Peter Lara: Has anybody found a way to, I know it's, you can't do it, but, um, I know there's a lot of creative people here, but, is there a way to delay, uh, an email to go out?
 Peter Lara: Uh, we have, uh, like we want reminders to go out when, when candidates haven't completed their background checks or candidates haven't completed their offer letters.
 Peter Lara: But, uhm, or signed their offer letters, but it's, uhm, these triggers are based on status, right? So when the status changes, it sends the email right away.
 Peter Lara: Uhm, has anybody found a way to delay an email by a day or two? 
 Alex M: And did John say he could do that? 
 Vivian Larsen: Yes. Okay. 
 Alex M: So, so quick shout 
 Vivian Larsen: out to 
 Alex M: our friend, uh, John Barth at Harmonize HR. We talked to him earlier this week and he's actually going to be on our call next Friday.
 Alex M: To, to answer some integration questions. So an AI moment, um, uh, we turned on the Cloud Circle MCP server. And that means I could ask.
 Alex M: Our IRD Claude, what have folks been asking about integrations in SAI? And we came up with a list of 10 hot integrations topics from this community, from your posts, from the transcripts of all our calls.
 Alex M: And John is going to talk through them. 
 Peter Lara: So. 
 Alex M: That's a plug for next week. But regarding Harmonize, specifically, they have an automation platform that can do specifically that. And John used to be an integrations engineer or specialist at ISIM.
 Alex M: So he's very familiar with the pain points of specific customers. I suggest you reach out to him if you're interested.
 Vivian Larsen: And if you don't want to go that route, I will say the only other way I've ever seen specifically what you're asking for done is through an API integration.
 Vivian Larsen: I've seen, so one of my largest clients that I was dedicated to towards the end of my time at ISIMS had an entire tech layer that they had written because they were a software company and they had developers to be able to do this in-house.
 Vivian Larsen: They had an API layer that floated over ISIMS that automated a bunch of the different actions that ISIMS does. And so they essentially had a status the recruiter moved the person into and then once that status happened, that triggered an event out to the API to say, that we are sitting in this status
 Vivian Larsen: , wait 48 
 Peter Lara: hours to update 
 Vivian Larsen: them into the new status. And then the new status triggered the, yeah. So, so they managed it via API. It seems very simple, but there's a lot of code involved in that.
 Vivian Larsen: Yeah, yeah. So it can be done, 
 Peter Lara: but I thought I'd give it a shot. 
 Vivian Larsen: Not easy. 
 Alex M: All right, we have a few. 
 Peter Lara: Thank you. 
 Alex M: Thank you, Peter. A few minutes left. Any final questions? Somebody have one question? 
 Vivian Larsen: I have a question. Have any of you implemented UKG Gen 3? I'm in the middle of building a UKG Gen 3 integration for a customer and I'm pounding my head on the desk because I can't do 90% of the things every integration I've ever built can do.
 Vivian Larsen: Nina? 
 Alex M: Maybe Nina? 
 NinaVoelker: I haven't, and actually it was such an upgrade from what we had before, but it still doesn't do a lot of the things that we would like it to, but it was such, such an upgrade from what we had before.
 NinaVoelker: I see. I saw your message, and I will tell you that when they, when we create the job code in UKG, and it would, it used to push into ISUNs and create the job template, and when we did the 3.0, that, that connection, or that, uhm, that email stopped happening.
 NinaVoelker: Now, I had an awesome, awesome implementation manager for, from ISUNs for that project, and we've actually done, like, a re-up because our promotions were not working, and Matt is just fantastic.
 NinaVoelker: But he told me he can still see it in the system, like, he can see that, uhm, email is supposed to be coming from UKG, but the information is blank, that it's sending So, I just haven't had time to go in there.
 NinaVoelker: He can see where it's still coming from UKG, but the information is all blank. So, I think there's something with that integration that it, like, cuts off that template creation that we used to have.
 NinaVoelker: So, yeah, it, I don't know. We love the integration compared to where we were, but there, anything with UKG, there's.
 NinaVoelker: Talk about an old system that has technical debt. 
 Vivian Larsen: What's that? appreciably better. 
 NinaVoelker: Well, the previous integration, which was the standard UKG integration, only populated four fields from ISIMS. First name, last name, email address and job.
 NinaVoelker: So, none of our org levels, none of that stuff came through. So, to me, we went, there were 20 fields that my payroll team was manually entering, that now, I was all populated.
 NinaVoelker: So, 20 extra fields times hundreds of hires, that's appreciably better. 
 Vivian Larsen: Okay, alright. So, are you talking about on the, on the, uhm, hire side, or are you talking about on the recreation side?
 NinaVoelker: Well, it impacts both. 
 Vivian Larsen: Yes, but what I'm asking is, 
 NinaVoelker: like, those. Oh, yeah. 
 Vivian Larsen: What you're sending is what you're sending, including the work data now, and that's better? 
 NinaVoelker: Yeah, the, the hires is better. The job creation is not as good, but we create so few new job codes that I was willing to sacrifice that for the benefit of the hire.
 Vivian Larsen: Do you only hire on the United States? 
 NinaVoelker: Yeah. 
 Vivian Larsen: Okay, so that's also another limitation that we've just run into with it is that this customer does like 10% of their hiring in the U.S.
 Vivian Larsen: and the rest of it's international and it doesn't do anything but United States for, for the pre-hire. Uhm, piece of it.
 Vivian Larsen: The UKG Gen3 will only send United States-based jobs and it can't send Canada or any other country. So that's different use cases.
 Vivian Larsen: So, I'm glad to hear there's some very big benefits to it and I think the client that I'm working with will get a lot of the same benefits out of it and that, you know, if you, I'm not running into an issue with a lack of knowledge with the person I'm working with, it's just that limited.
 NinaVoelker: Yeah, we estimated 192 hours per quarter we were gonna save. 
 Vivian Larsen: Wow. That's huge. 
 Alex M: Huge. 
 Vivian Larsen: Yeah. Okay. Well, thank you for your input. I'm glad to hear that. I've got some positive things to tell them.
 NinaVoelker: You're welcome. 
 Alex M: All right. Well, thank you, everybody. It's been a great call as always. Hope you have a restful and restorative weekend.
 Alex M: We'll see you here next week, 1.30 p.m. with our friend John Parth to talk about integrations and ISIMs. Have a great weekend, everybody.