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Serenity and Fire with Krista
Welcome to Serenity and Fire. The podcast where wellness meets grit. I'm your host, Krista Guagenti, founder of Panacea Luxury Spa Boutique. Join me as we dive into the intriguing world of bio-hacking, clean living, cutting-edge spa treatments and the hustle, grind and grit of entrepreneurship. From my personal battles with weight-loss and infertility, to a 30-year struggle to create and launch my dream business, to building a sanctuary for those touched by cancer — I'm here to share real talk, inspire big dreams and spark a passion for holistic living inside each and every one of you.
Serenity and Fire with Krista
Whiskey to Wellness, Part 2: Leadership Lessons, Motherhood Guilt & the Real Talk Women Need
In Part Two of my conversation with Panacea’s Director of Operations, Jennifer York, we’re going even deeper into what it really looks like to lead with both grit and grace—while raising twin four-year-old girls and helping run a fast-paced luxury spa.
We talk candidly about working for women vs. men, perfectionism, failure, friendship at work, and the emotional load that comes with being “the one” people look to when things go sideways. Jenn also opens up about the guilt of being a working mom, why she chose to go back to work after staying home, and how she’s learned to see problems as her greatest opportunities for growth.
You’ll also hear some of the hilariously human stories that happen only in a spa (yes, including the amenities, tequila, and that stairwell incident), plus the quiet moments that make all of this worth it.
In this episode, we explore:
- What changes when you go from peer to leader inside the same team
- The real differences Jen has felt working for male vs. female bosses
- How perfectionism, fear, and procrastination show up in leadership
- The guilt and duality of being a working mom (especially with twins)
- Why “being a student” might be the most powerful leadership skill
- How we navigate friendship, boundaries, and hard conversations together
If you’ve ever wondered whether you’re “doing enough” as a mom, leader, or entrepreneur—or if you’re just craving some honest behind-the-scenes of what it takes to build something meaningful—this conversation is for you.
Welcome to Serenity and Fire, the podcast where wellness meets grit. I'm your host, Krista Guadenti, founder of Panacea Luxury Spa Boutique. Join me as we dive into the intriguing world of biohacking, clean living, cutting-edge spa trends, and the hustle, grind, and grit of entrepreneurship. From my personal battles with weight management, infertility, and the 30-year journey to create and launch my dream business, to building a sanctuary for those who have been touched by cancer. I'm here to share real talk, inspire big dreams, and spark a passion for holistic living inside each and every one of you. So let's dive in. Welcome back to Serenity and Fire. Last week I sat down with my director of operations, Jennifer York. And of course, as usual, we got to gabbing and talking, and before we knew it, we were out of time. So instead of cutting the episode short, we decided to just split it into two episodes. So let's pick back up where we left off. So another interesting difference between your position at the distillery was that you worked for a male owner. So how is that different working for me here at Panacea?
SPEAKER_03:I have often, I'm sure you've heard this too. I've often heard people say that working for women is worse.
SPEAKER_00:Totally. I feel that way. I always loved working for men so much better. Hopefully you don't feel that way. Everybody get ready for it. No.
SPEAKER_03:No, I've I've that's been said a lot. And I think it's because a lot of times um it's seen as more harsh. Women um coming across the same way that a man man can come across. Um, working for a male was I learned how to make I could take five sentences and I had to make it into three words. I have to make this as short as humanly possible because he's gonna lose interest midway through what I'm saying.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Um so I've got to condense everything I say. No wonder you love working for me, and no wonder we can ever get anything done when we're in the office together so we can talk. Um but I learned that like shorten everything, make it conden. Like, even my husband, like I have to sometimes remind him, hi, I'm not your employee, I'm your wife. Can you not speak to me like that? Thank you. Because he's very, he's like, I need the answer to this. Go. Yeah, come to the chase. Whoa, dude. Like, not cool. Um, but that's that is dealing with a lot of men. I've heard, I've heard, I heard once, yeah, men are waffles, women are spaghetti. Um, just women are all over the place. We we think about every tendril, like, how is what I'm doing going to affect this person over there? Whereas men tend to just compartmentalize things. So I got to realize like working for a man, they're not thinking about you. Yeah. They're not thinking about your feelings. They're not thinking about, is this gonna hurt her feelings if I say it this way?
SPEAKER_00:I taught I break down scenarios with Jason all the time. Yeah. And he literally is like, here's how you handle it, move on. And I'm like, but what about blah, blah, blah? And he's like, it doesn't matter. Like moving on to the next thing. And and the people that work for him love him and they're fine with that.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:But throw that into the opposite, you know, realm of the female boss acting that way, being short, curt, cutting to the chase. It's it is a different well, men get a pass for a story.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. You know, I I often think to myself about other things, you know, uh, why is nobody else doing anything? And I'm the only one ever doing anything about it. And I'm like, well, because you're the only one who sees it. And it's similar in this. Women don't get a pass for that because we all know each other and we know that we see it. Yeah. You know you're being a jerk. Like, you know what I mean? You know that you're not being nice to me right now. Um, I see that you see that. But a man, they're so flippant about things most of the time and just natural communication style. They're not thinking like, if I say, you know, this, if I say it this particular way, as that can hurt her feelings, probably. So I should probably reword it and do a sandwich compliment, you know, a compliment sandwich with my criticisms. Um, they don't think that way. They'll just very bluntly like, this was done wrong, do it this way next time. And you just learn to be like, okay. Like, and you also learn they didn't take it personally. They're not upset with me. Whereas I think um, I don't feel that way about you. I don't feel like you ever take it personally. I feel like when you do come to me and you're like, hey, this was done wrong, do it this way next time, I will say, okay. I I have learned, like, I don't need to sit there and think, like, is she mad at me? You know what I mean? Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Um, so although you're you do spiral sometimes. Yeah. Something will happen and you'll text me later and you'll be like, I was overthinking this. And here's what I thought. Are you okay with that? And I'm like, oh my God, I didn't even think twice about it. But I love that you submit that to me and tell me. And I know that you don't love that when you're doing that. And that's something that you're working on. But I love that you share that with me so we can quickly talk through.
SPEAKER_03:That's a perk of having a female boss.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:I couldn't have called him and been like, I've been overthinking this one thing. There's still conversations, still to this day, that I've had with him that I'll double back and think about. And I'm like, I wish I could reach out. But he'd be like, What? Like, why are you still thinking about that? My God, move on. Yeah. Like, and I know that. I'm like, I know, but I am still thinking about it. Whereas with you, I have the ability to be like, hi, I said this in this context. Was it weird? Or like I did this or I messed up on this. I want to talk about it. And you're able to do that and just be like, that's silly. And I can move on pretty quickly to hear you say that. But it's nice to be able to get that sort of affirmation from someone to just be like, I messed this up. And you're like, Yeah, you did. Um, but next time we'll just do it this way and do it better. And I'm like, that's it. Okay, I'll do it better. You know, next time I am I'm hard on myself. Very. Um, perfectionism is a trap. It's a big trap for procrastination. And um, it's kind of in a Venn diagram with like there's uh procrastination, fear, perfectionism. They're all in there together. And it it is it is crippling. Yeah. It's crippling if you allow it to be. And so I know to move on. I know to let it go. I I will let myself dwell in it for a minute because I this I like the chastising of myself. I think it's necessary to get things done. You know, you've got to whip yourself a little bit. Like, what are you thinking? You know, have that, but then be like, with the grace, like it's okay, we're learning. It's okay to fail. Um, you're still learning. Having, I've told you, like, I it is my goal to go into every situation as a student and to remain as a student, have a student heart, um, to just learn and grow. Because the moment I get into I should have known better, that stops learning. It stops, it puts that door right down. But you allow me the ability, I think, to feel the feelings and then move on, which is nice. I can actually move on things much quickly, much more quickly because of that. Because I can come to you and say, Hey, I messed this up. And you're like, Yeah, not a big deal. Let's move on. And I'm like, great.
SPEAKER_00:Or learn from it. And yeah, how do we grow?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Yeah, it's a big deal. Let's not do that anymore. What can we put into place so that doesn't happen again? And then yeah, I can just move on and and feel better. And I don't need to think about it six years later.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Which I still do, which is good. I think that's also an area where we balance each other really well because I am an absolute perfectionist and all the things you said are true. There's fear and there's procrastination that are tied into that. But I think it's great because that's why me being in the day-to-day operations is almost a little bit paralyzing for someone who wants to develop and grow because I when I'm there, I can't get out of those details. But you being there, I can tell you this needs to happen, this needs to happen, this needs to happen. And you take care of it and you move on. Like where I would obsess over it, you know?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So um, I think that's a really good balance between you and I.
SPEAKER_03:I try not to obsess over it. I feel like if um if I owned the business, it'd be a different scenario. Um, but I don't, and I have to, I have to tell myself that this is not your business. Like, chill out. You're not the one who put everything financially on the line for this. Like you don't have a whole lot of skin in the game. Like, what's the worst thing that can happen? You know, and not catastrophizing. Like, you know, I there are times where, you know, you're just kind of like, okay, well, you just gotta be okay with maybe you're gonna get fired. All right, gotta be okay with it. And I I just have to be okay with, you know, failing. And I've I've talked to you a lot about it. Just I need to be better about being a student and to being bad. That's the key to success, I do believe, is just to remain humble in your heart. Don't don't pretend like you know everything because you most definitely don't. Doesn't matter how much you know, there's always more to know. Remain a student and um and things will usually work out for you. Yeah, it's also more becoming.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. So I I feel like too, I think I've heard you tell me times that, you know, if you had ideas or thoughts or different things that you would bring to your previous bosses, it wasn't always super well received. Um, and I I do feel like I really try to, even though I obviously have very specific ways that I want things done, and you know, we're trying to create a a a brand and um one that's very recognizable. So with that comes some of that perfectionism. But at the same time, I feel like I try to really like get your thoughts on things. If there's scenarios or different things we want to try, like running them by you and like seeing what your thoughts are and taking to heart what you're thinking could be the pitfalls or the advantages, etc. That kind of thing. I mean, do you feel like that happens?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_00:I I definitely do.
SPEAKER_03:I, you know, previously and you know, working where I was before, he had a he had a very, very clear vision that I was not fully privy to. You know, I didn't, I didn't know all of his plans and and things like that. He knew. So it was kind of like I was operating, which I see this all the time now, but it's you know, when when you're operating from above the trees, taking advice from somebody who's in the trees can be difficult because you're like, yeah, but you don't see all this. But what you don't see above the trees is all the minutiae. You know, you're not seeing all the roots and the, you know, that this is connected to that. And you can see a lot down there. It's different from this level of operating. Um, he had a very clear plan. His was a global endeavor that he took on just a rocket ship ride, just and so looking back, I can kind of see like I get why my minutiae wasn't that important in the moment because he had a bigger goal. He's moving an entire ship. I'm worried about what's going on in the ship while we're moving. All of it's important, um, but it comes to play in in different ways. Something I'm really thankful with you for is because you do allow me to share my thoughts. I always tell you ultimately, I'm gonna do what you want to do. Yeah, you do. Um, I'm like, you know, ultimately, this is your business. And I respect that. I I will help you, I will make it happen, I will do whatever you want. In order for me to sell it, I need to know why. And I need to know why in my heart. Um, and and I need to be able to say it from a place that I know you're coming from as well. So sometimes I just need to spitball about things, but it helps me grow and it helps me see the general vision and the general um direction that you're taking the company. And I'm really appreciative for that because you know, talking about kind of going back and talking about you don't want to be on your deathbed and think, well, you know, I could have done more. Yeah. You also learn your own limitations during that time period, and you kind of see where you're good and where you're not. I never want to own a big company. Like, I just don't. There's especially like this kind of thing. Like, maybe if I didn't have any employees, you know what I mean? I there's a lot of like little things. Like you have a lot of people that depend on you. And I don't want that. That doesn't like I could lay my deathbed and think you never did that. I'd be like, I don't care. You know, I don't want to do that. Um my vision and my goal for my life is different, but I like the operational side. I like learning about it, and I like puzzles. I like seeing how things are gonna work out and things are gonna play out. I am fascinated by building a business. I am fascinated by CEOs, entrepreneurs, and like that kind of mindset that it takes to be able to do things like that. I it takes a special sort of human. And I just like humans that are capable of extraordinary things. And I want to see why. I want to see how. Yeah. Um, I feel like I would probably be just as interested in somebody who is like, you know, some sort of scientist somewhere. I'd be like, how did you discover this? You know, tell me everything. I just want to work around you. I'm very fascinated. So I I'm appreciative of this bit balling back and forth for that reason because I just like to know where we're going.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. And I love, I mean, I love that. And that's the thing we talk about a lot on Serenity and Fire is that people who think they might want to own a business or working towards owning a business, it's not for everybody. Like the mindset doesn't work for every single person out there, which is why not everybody opens a business. So uh people like me need people like you that are gonna champion the brand and drive the vision. And I love that about you because I remember when I hired you, like you're like, my goal is to make sure that I know everything that's going on here so that you don't have to be here and you can focus on the growth, and I'm here with you all the way. So I love that. Yeah. Um, well, okay, let's get into like some of the behind the scenes stuff. What do you feel like is one of the craziest or funniest situations that you've had to deal with behind the scenes? Something that makes you think only in this job would this ever happen.
SPEAKER_03:Massaging people, like couples, um is interesting. There was one time in particular um we had done a Russell service.
SPEAKER_00:And um Russul, for anyone who doesn't know, it's a it's a mud ritual that we do with a dry brush scrub and a massage, and it's it's a whole experience for couples.
SPEAKER_03:Well, and during that time period, you were the couple is left alone in the seam room with two mud palettes to paint each other's bodies. There's one in particular time that I think about where we couldn't get back in the room, they were not getting out of the shower, not sure what's happening. Toward the end, we're kind of like, what was going on?
SPEAKER_00:Yes, I remember this in there.
SPEAKER_03:And then we opened the little refrigerator door and it's full of empty airplane crown bottles, like bottles of Crown Royal. I was like, these people were having a real good time. Yes. Um, and then it made me think about the people um fornicating in the stairwell. Oh god. This is stuff that would happen at a spa that's not gonna happen in many other places.
SPEAKER_00:And it's for honest reasons. You would never expect that that happening in the stairwell would ever happen either. When when the wellness guides told me that, I was like, what? One of our poor, sweet little 20-something year old wellness guides walked out into the hallway and saw this going on and was like, oh my god, like just quietly turned around, walked back into the spa, like like she didn't see anything.
SPEAKER_03:They were having connecting moments. Yeah. They so I think I think those are kind of some of the funniest. Also, when you can tell that people are mad at each other, that's also kind of funny. Um, going into a service and for sure. You're it's weird in a couple's massage in general because there's four people in the room and nobody talks.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:And it's like one person will start snoring. It's usually the guy, right? And you just saw in logs over there.
SPEAKER_00:And the three women are all like, or one person is moaning and the other person is not.
SPEAKER_03:It's where the one person keeps talking, yeah, and the other person's like, they never shut up. Like my favorite is when the husband or wife are like, we do not want to be in the same room. Yeah, he talks a lot. I'm like, oh my gosh, it's so funny. I I get a kick out of just that kind of stuff, the the different couples and the interactions of people and personality types. It's funny.
SPEAKER_00:Do you feel like that, like that? Do you feel like that's the most rewarding thing about operating a spa, or are there other things that you love?
SPEAKER_03:For me, my the most rewarding thing for me is my the management team is um pouring into them. That's that's my big thing in life, I think. Is um I feel like one of my purposes in life is to help other people find their purpose. Um, I've done a lot of introspection. I always say I'm an only child, I've spent a lot of time with myself. I think through everything. Why do you think that? Should you think this? What about thinking that? Let's look at it from this angle. And it's been, and it always will be, I think, probably my favorite part of any job is to have somebody say, I'm really stuck. I don't know how to fix this.
SPEAKER_00:I think we're so excited to be at this place because you've been in your director role now for about a year and a half. And this was where we wanted to get you, but there was so much to learn. I mean, I remember you coming to me many times, like, how am I ever gonna know all the stuff that you know? Like there was just so much behind the scenes, and and you're finally there. And I think I told you it's gonna take a year to get there, and it probably was a year. Yeah. And we finally got the culture right how we wanted it. And now here we are a few months into you really starting to develop and grow this management team. And we're so lucky because we have such a great group of managers.
SPEAKER_03:It's such a joy. It's such a joy to be able to pour into somebody and and watch them get excited about things, watch them get excited about their future, um, watch them grow. Um, I I have an incessant need to grow personally. And so being able to inspire that, you know, I I mentioned earlier, curiosity doesn't just come, it's something you have to cultivate. Growth is very similar.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:So it's like you have to cultivate wanting to grow. It is way easier to sit on your ass and do nothing. It's way easier. Way easier. It's really scary. You come up against a lot of stuff in yourself when you start growing. And um, it's uncomfortable, it hurts, um, it feels weird. And it's a pleasure to be able to stand with um like-minded women and hold their hand, you know, through growth processes. And to be able to share, you know, the mountains of knowledge that I have acquired from books over the years. It sounds silly, but it's like I have acquired a lot. And I didn't realize how much how much I had acquired until I really started to pour into people. And I'm like, I have an answer for a lot of scenarios. They'll come up with something. I'm like, yes, mm-hmm. Shonda Rams, the year of yes, let's talk about that. I'm like, I'm like, I will just know it. And I it's definitely from so many years of of listening and and pouring into myself. Yeah, I've always said my goal is to be a pitcher to be able to pour into other people. But in order to that, you've got to be full. Yep. So I how do you replenish that? Yes. And it's I I love it. I've figured out a system to now where I'm having things pour into me and I can pour right out. I always have a thing. I always have a thing. I'm some drum I'm pounding. Like, you know, recently it's been about problems. I've been into problems. Super excited. I've been reading um how to make a few billion dollars, Brad Jacobs. And he's all into problems. Problems are where the money is. That's the good thing. You got to get through the problems. Every business has problems.
SPEAKER_00:You need to learn how to address them quickly and and use them for growth opportunities, use them for ways to get better.
SPEAKER_03:So let's think about it and be excited. So now every time there's a problem, I'm like, yes, okay, problem time. They're like, Jesus, Shenner Ver. I'm like, let's go. So it's exciting. It's yeah, I think it's really fun. But that that is most definitely my favorite part.
SPEAKER_00:I love that. Okay. So what tell me about the most ridiculous client moment that you witnessed. And you we don't have to name names. We all have a list. I'm sure you have a list too. So tell me what's at the top of your list.
SPEAKER_03:I I don't know if I can answer that. Because I try to, but there's a lot of uh the because I think that there's a lot of emotional stuff that's attached to when people freak out. You know what I mean? They're freaking out in the moment. I mean, people come in a lot and they're like they feel anxious, but they can't identify why. And a lot of it's because it's a new situation, they feel out of place, it's a nice place. They come in and they see it. My favorite thing to hear some people say is like, I felt um, you know, I was worried that I wouldn't be accepted. I I was feeling nervous about coming in. I thought that no one would like this would be too good for me and this would be too stuffy.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I know I'm not sure. Like everybody's snotty so much when people give us that feedback that it's completely the opposite. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Yes, like we're not like that. But people come in with that expectation. So they come in with their hackles raised and they're ready to fight. And it's a little ridiculous.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:It's kind of like, I'm like, hey, everything's okay. And they're like, but this. I'm like, oh my gosh. Like, I am your friend. Yes. I want you to be happy. I want all of this to go well for you because that makes my life a lot easier. So, like, so like let's figure it out. Let's figure out how to make it better. That's a hard one for me. I I honestly, I I've racked my brain over it. And the only thing I can think of is people copulating the sear well is super ridiculous.
SPEAKER_00:It is ridiculous. I can think of, I don't know, I don't think you were the director at the time, but we had this girl who came in and was celebrating her 21st birthday. And you know, we have a ton of birthday celebrations literally every single day. And um, we also do have a full cocktail bar, and we like that because we can monitor people's consumption and, you know, keep them down the hydration path. And this particular girl had actually snuck in this ginormous bottle of tequila. I mean, I've I honestly have never seen a bottle that big before in my life. And the only reason we know is because somebody, another client had told one of our nail techs when she was getting her nails, like, oh yeah, this girl's back in the locker room passing around shots of tequila. And so it got up to us, and of course, you know, we start to investigate. And by the time we find out what's going on, the girl is just completely obliterated, throwing up in the shower, throwing up in the locker room. And of course, I have to get involved. I go back. Sh, you know, she is just, she went from zero to a hundred in no time. And um, so I'm standing there making sure she's safe and she's feeling okay. Meanwhile, the front desk is calling her emergency contact. The emergency contact comes in and she opens the locker room door and she says, Hey, I'm here to get so-and-so. And I'm like, Okay, well, she's right here. And, you know, I was just explaining to her how unsafe her bringing in her own liquor was. And it also puts our liquor license at jeopardy. And the lady says, I'm just her Uber driver. And I was like, Oh my god. The lady was amazing. Um, she kind of chastised the girl, but helped get her dressed and get her stuff on, and we walked her down together. And um, but I will I will never forget that moment. And um, so when I think about ridiculous, crazy things that have happened, that's definitely on the top of my list. Yes.
SPEAKER_03:I had a lady brought in her mom, who I don't think um she was an elderly lady, and I don't think she was quite used to drinking. They had about four mimosas. This old lady was yelling. Oh my goodness. She was having the time of her life, just scream. And I I'm having to like, okay, I think maybe it's time for you to go. We're just having a good time, honey. Oh my goodness. It's a spa. Like, yeah. The the drinking can get interesting to kind of watch. And you know, we've had to cut people off.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, 100%. Um, I love when you get excited because your Kentucky accent starts to come out.
SPEAKER_04:It just comes right on now. Just put me on a bourbon tour and it's it'll blow your mind. I sound straight up like just out of the hills. So that's funny.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, so let's talk about success and what a typical day looks like for you. What like what would what would that be?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, me feeling good on a good day is uh solving problems. It's like this is an answer. There are some times when an answer feels so good. It's like you scratch a deep itch, you're like, I know the answer to it. Here it is. It's super exciting. I will have some days where I'm just firing them off. Yep. I love when I come in and you're like, remember this problem? I crushed it. I get really excited about it.
SPEAKER_00:My clients so happy.
SPEAKER_03:No, I'm like, done, yes. I get, I get jazzed about it. Um, I really, I really love when I have a good idea. Um, occasionally I'll just pop off an idea. You know what I mean? And it'll it'll just come to me. It's like, you know, just like a little nugget delivered on my brain door step. And I'm like, how about this idea? I know when it's coming out of my mouth. I'm like, this is golden. And uh Kai. Uh, Kai is our spa manager. Kai, sometimes I'll deliver like, that's why you're director. I'm like, mm-hmm. Uh-huh. Look at that idea. That feels good.
SPEAKER_00:Well, if there was anything you could change about Panacea, what would that one thing be? I would make amenities bigger. 100%. I 100% agree. I think I've mentioned in previous podcasts how we get some of the craziest recommendations and feedback, like you should make the locker room bigger, you should make the pools bigger, you should make all this, like move these walls and do this, like as if we can nap our fingers.
SPEAKER_03:You should redesign your entire spa. It's like, yeah, well, you know, if if in hindsight, yes. Yes, you know, a lot of that. And you know, I always say, well, in our new spa, we will do that. But, you know, there was a lot of things, you know, you you know that when you build things, I'm like, don't expect things to happen.
SPEAKER_00:And it was it was so scary because honestly, you go to, you know, spas all over the world and especially like resort-level spas that have amenities and you never see anyone in them. And so I remember when I was opening Panacea and going way back to the design phase and we were developing and putting in the amenities spaces. And I remember thinking, oh my gosh, this looks so big. Like, are people even gonna use this? Is this gonna be a huge waste of space? And are we sinking all this money into something that nobody's even going to use? And then bam, like people love the amenities.
SPEAKER_03:And it blows my mind that people will be there for three hours and we have to kick them out. Yeah. Like you really need to leave. Like, I I am so happy having the time. And it's and they are, they're just having the time of their lives.
SPEAKER_00:And I if I could count the amount of times when people are like, I just want to move in here, put me on the list.
SPEAKER_03:One of my favorite things people say is like, is it just so amazing just being here every day? The distillery I worked at was extremely beautiful and very unusual space to kind of be in. So I feel like I've really lucked out with jobs. Um, even the distillery here in Ohio was neat. I mean, it was fun to kind of be around. The aesthetic was cool. Like there was there's just been a lot. You get used to a space after a while. Yeah, you do. You become your house. Actually, yeah, you do. I'm like, oh yeah, it is super pretty in here. Um, but it becomes like your house. So it's neat to see that part of things to just people becoming so enamored, but you're also like, okay, but you gotta go. I don't make this awkward for everybody. Like so that is uh 100% what I would change.
SPEAKER_00:I love that. So let's get to the part where I'm maybe a little bit terrified about how you're gonna respond, but what's it really like working for me? And don't sugarcoat it. We've been friends long enough now. Like, I can take the good, the bad, and the ugly. So just tell me what it's like.
SPEAKER_03:I don't meet a lot of people who have a lot of energy, like high. Levels of energy. That's it's an unusual trait. It's one I possess. I can be a lot. When I when people meet me in a good way. I mean, for most people, but there are some people I just rub rub the wrong way. And I think it's just because I I'm on level 10 almost all the time. You are too. You are high up there. So it's like you'll come in like the Tasmanian devil sometimes and just spiral all around the spa. I think you stress out everybody. Yeah. I know you know. I say that. I'm like, I'm like, but why? I'm so nice. I swear. It's it's that high, high energy personality and it's intense. There's an intensity to you that I think it, I think for a lot of people it can be challenging. I also possess a lot of intensity in my personality. So I don't see it that way. It always kind of makes me laugh when you come back and you're like, I'm sorry, I was a lot. I'm like, oh, I you weren't. I mean, I could tell you were amped up, but like that's not, it's not a big deal. So those things, they it doesn't, it doesn't bother me at all.
SPEAKER_00:And I love that about our relationship because there are times that I'm just like, oh man, I probably went a little overboard on that. And I'll call you and you'll be like, I I didn't even notice, like you were fine. But I will say that a lot of people can't handle some of those direct conversations like that. Um, or some of those, you know, where I'm kind of, I feel like I'm jumping down your throat, but no, hopefully I'm not.
SPEAKER_03:You do. I've told you this before. There's this manic smile you'll do if you're upset about something. It's like this, like this. And anytime you don't have a mic, you're like, oh no, here she goes. Yeah, it the manic smile, instantly. I'm like, this is serious. She's upset. Like, I better listen to that. It burns it in my brain. I don't take it. I don't take it personally because um I don't think you mean it personally. I we've we've worked together enough, and I feel like you're you're you are complimentary um as a person. I feel you compliment me a lot, which I appreciate. Um, I'm I am a words of affirmation person, so I definitely need to hear that a lot of times, especially if I'm spiraling and feel like I'm doing something awful or something. And you're like, Jen, chill out. And I I've met enough people too that I'm like, you really are doing pretty well. Like a lot of people just would not be able to understand where to go and and understand how to take this. And it's really our relationship really needs to be symbiotic. And I think we do a good job of that. Yeah, I agree.
SPEAKER_00:Of working, and if I haven't said it enough, you're amazing.
unknown:Thank you.
SPEAKER_00:Um, and and you're right, I know I have super high energy. I mean, sometimes I'll have six to eight hours already in before a lot of people even get out of bed. So, what's it like being with someone like me where you have to catch all of those ideas that I'm throwing out left and right and bring them to fruition? And maybe even sometimes you have to push back on me.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, this is my wheelhouse, baby. Like this is where I operate really well. Yep. Um, I can have 80 different projects in my own personal life. One of my hallmarks of me being in a good headspace mentally is if I have a bunch of side projects going on.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:If I don't have any side projects, I know that I'm stressed out, like I'm not in a good place. Um, so I deal really well with a large amount of things. I do, I do very well in chaotic situations in general. I really enjoy them. I enjoy your energy. I enjoy the intensity that you bring. It's fun for me. Um, you bring puzzles to me. You bring challenges to me. And I feel, I feel, you know, supported in um learning and growing. I feel like there is support in that. So it doesn't, it doesn't bother me. Um you'll you'll come with a lot. Like, here are all the things I want to do. Some things you'll say, I'll be like, oh, this is that's not gonna be fun. But ultimately, I've made that commitment to you. I've said it to you so many times. I will do what you want. Um and if I I'm gonna do my best every time, I'm gonna try my hardest. If I don't do it right, then I'm not the person for that job. And we should find somebody else.
SPEAKER_00:And I feel like there's not a whole lot of times when we don't come to the same page about something.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I agree.
SPEAKER_00:And and when there are times when I'm like, I don't know, Jen, I think maybe you should think about this or think about that, maybe handle it this way. And you might not want to in the moment, but I've typically found with you that after you've thought about it a little bit and you're like, okay, I'm doing this and you do it, then it usually ends up being a good thing.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, in the end. I have to, I just have to commit to something in my head. So like sometimes if you'll you'll tell me something, um, I I would really prefer you do it this way. You've said this to me, but you know what? You're director, so it's your decision. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And I'm like, I'll back you if it goes a while, if it goes awry, then we'll live and learn.
SPEAKER_03:But that that's probably where my mind goes. I it is. I'm like, but if I do it her way and if it goes awry, then it's her fault. If I do it my way and it goes awry, it's my fault. I'll do it her way.
SPEAKER_00:That's why we work so well together. No, I'm just kidding.
SPEAKER_03:I mean, I it doesn't bother me. Like I said, as long as I can understand the reasoning, which we've had, there's um in our company values, there's a word that I had a hard time with and I needed the word deserve. Yep. And I was like, I need you to talk to me about this. I do, because I can't feel it. I I have lived most of my life saying you don't deserve anything, you earn it. Yeah. Um, it's most definitely how I was raised. It's how I think. The word is like a dirty word in my brain. You know, how do you feel about it now? Um, it's still kind of dirty, but I for me. Um, but I respect, I respect, you know, the the value of something along everybody deserves the the right to a tranquil and and nice space to be in. It's something along those lines. Yep. And um I think it is wonderful for a value to to have that as a value. Like, I'm gonna give this to you in my mind. Like, obviously, with a spa I'm like gonna be like, you need to earn your relaxation here. Like, that's what money is, Jen. Like, chill out. Um, and I'm like, yeah, no, people they do deserve a nice place to be able to come and enjoy themselves. But I had to, I had to come to terms with the word deserve. Most people wouldn't even, I think, dig into each individual word the way that I do, but I have to understand it at a heart level.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. And I think I love that because you know me, I'm always like, whenever we give a directive or we put a policy and a procedure in place, I'm always all about we have to explain to the team why we're asking this so that they understand and they we have buy in that way. And sometimes my explanations are a little too wordy. But um, at the same time, I think it's so important that we do that because if you don't know why you're doing something and the purpose of it, then Yeah, it lowers compliance. Yeah, for sure.
SPEAKER_03:By far. Yeah. I am definitely, if it doesn't make sense, I'm not gonna do it. It it if it if it makes zero sense to me, I'm gonna be like, this is not a good idea. You know what I mean? Like, why would I do that? Most people are like that. Most people, if they think it's dumb, they're not gonna do it.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, agreed. So so I have to know what are some of the things that I do that drive you absolutely insane? Um, your time. I am always late. I do as I say, not as I do. I know.
SPEAKER_03:Typically, if uh yeah, if you're like, we're gonna meet at this time, I'd be like, so that means one hour later. Like I have to say that in my head. I told you earlier, time is such a thing for me, and I'm really not sure where that came from in my life. Like my parents were always on time as well, but it is like a crippling thing for me to where if I'm late, I have panic attacks. Like I have to like calm down. I'm like, one minute. My kids live this kind of life, these poor girls, to where I'm like 7:30 bedtime right now. Like, no, no questions. We're not talking about it. This is what we're doing. And it's how I live my whole life, very regimented. And I think there's a safety for that in me. So when there isn't that adherence to the same time regulations that I have, it feels out of control.
SPEAKER_00:So what you're saying is I'm stretching you in good ways.
SPEAKER_03:It does help me. Um, but yeah, I have to be like, I just have to, I just that is what I do. I'll be like, okay, so that means that I'll have to have to do Christa time math, right? I'm like, that means she's actually leaving that time at this time. So I have to do so. I have to do so I still have to stick to times, but I just have have to have more Louie. Um, that's probably the the only big one. Well, that's good.
SPEAKER_00:I feel like that's we can work with that.
SPEAKER_03:There's not a lot.
SPEAKER_00:I mean it's all my goal list to get better. My, you know, my thing is is that I'll be like, okay, I'll call you in 15 minutes, and then three more phone calls come in in that 15 minutes, and then those phone calls last 30 minutes apiece. And then the the time I call you is like, oh my God, it's an hour later.
SPEAKER_03:But the big problem is that you're overcommitted in most areas of your life. Um, this is, I mean, you're you're doing a lot. You've got a lot of plates in the air, a lot. And um, and that's that's really where that problem is coming from. And I definitely recognize that. It's not just uh, well, I was getting dressed and didn't know what time it was. You know, it wasn't that kind of thing. It's it's like, you know, I uh I'm in the middle of eight million things and I'm kind of fitting you in. So I feel excited anytime we have time together. Um, to where it's like sweet. Thank you for that grace. Where it's set down. I mean, I understand that it's you're busy, you have a lot of things going. And I'm excited for you and I want to help you. I've told you that um very candidly. I want to help you get to those places. So, in order to do that, you know, you got to have a little grace for your time management. So I appreciate it so much.
SPEAKER_00:Um, let's talk a little bit about balancing friendship and leadership because obviously we met as peers. Um, I would definitely consider us friends now. And then we ended up building this whole boss director dynamic. Plus, you went from being a part-time massage therapist to managing the same people that you worked with, you know, those couple days a week when you were at the spa. Um, and we talked a lot about this when you were going through the interview process. And, you know, I really had to make sure that you were gonna be ready for that culture shift. So that's something that is really tricky for a lot of people. Can you tell me a little bit about how you've navigated that and how you continue to navigate that?
SPEAKER_03:I think respect is a big thing. Um if you're gonna go from a peer to um to you know, a position of management, you have to earn the respect of your peers. Um, I think they respected me as a massage therapist um when I was there. I was a good employee. I mean, um I you knew my body of work kind of coming in. I believe in doing the best at anything I do, even if it's working two days a week as a massage therapist, you know what I mean? Like that was that was a big step back in career for me. I'm still gonna do it to the absolute best of my ability. That's how you make connections, that's how you get ahead. It used to kill me in massage school when people would show up in like like literally pajamas. And I'm like, these people could be references for you. Do you think they're gonna give you a reference when you can't even show up wearing proper clothes? Yeah, like so. That is how I live my life. I live every single interaction. Like, you don't know where these people are, where you're gonna meet them again. And this is every interaction that I have, even you know, dealing with a gas station attendant, treat people respectably. 100%, yes. And I I do that. So I felt like moving, I didn't have any moments in in my career at Panacea where I'm like, mm, people might might not respect me. So that was an easy transition for me in in my mind because I didn't have that. I also was um I'm I'm I'm older than a lot of the team. Our team is young in general. So it's not like I was friends with them. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like on the same peer level. Sure. Um, but even so, even like some of my absolute best friends, I would have no problem stepping into that management. And I think the thing you have to do is show them why you are to be respected. Um, I definitely believe in earning trust. I believe in, you know, your reputation, your word, those things precede you. Um, they they will pave ways for you. It's so extremely important. I remember my dad really stressing this with me. Um, your word is your honor. You never ever forsake that. You do what you say. And I struggled a lot with it growing up in my 20s. I mean, I did a lot of things. I would say I would do something and not do it. I'd be flaky. I saw the repercussions of that. I saw what that can do to your life and it will wreck it. This is always something when people are like, My life's not going well. I'm like, yeah, because you're not doing life very well. Like you're not following through. You're not a person of honor. Be a person of honor. And then when you step into those positions, respect will follow. But also you've got to back it up. You know, there's not a day that goes by that I don't work on being better. There's not a day that goes by. Like, I am consistent. I started an AI course last night. I enrolled in it. And I I was up, it's a, it's a, you know, it's like a four-week course, um, introduction to AI. I was like, all right. Josh is so funny. He's like, you build something for the company. Build it. He's like, this will make you this will make you value.
SPEAKER_00:No, like you and I have been going back and forth about AI and how we're gonna incorporate it into the business and we're working on some things. So this is this makes me super happy.
SPEAKER_03:Thought it would. But having that thought process, like you have to take that initiative. You don't need someone, someone cannot be there to hold your hand and to tell you, you should probably get better at this area of leadership. Like, you need to know that. And it's wherever's uncomfortable. If you have an area in which it's uncomfortable, you should grow. You need to figure that out. If you don't know what you're doing, if it feels clunky, start doing it all the time. Start, and people respect that. So I think that transition was a little bit easier for me because I already came from a place where I felt like I was respected by my peers. And then when I moved into that place, it was mainly the LMTs who knew me well. And um, you know, a lot of them come up to me and they're like, You are great in this role. Yeah. And that that means a lot to me.
SPEAKER_00:It does mean a lot. I I also remember you saying when you were in your LMT role, people would just like tell you everything, literally. So you knew a lot about the people on the team, and that changed quickly.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:As soon as you became the director.
SPEAKER_03:I I still think I'm thinking, I bet you wish you didn't tell me that.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
unknown:Right.
SPEAKER_00:Which goes back to why you always never know how you're gonna interact with someone further down the road. So always having that best foot forward and making the best impression all the time is so important. It's important. Yeah. What are some things, if anything, that you feel like you've learned about yourself relative to your leadership style since you've been in this role?
SPEAKER_03:I have, I I feel like I've developed my leadership style more in this role than ever before in my entire life.
SPEAKER_00:What do you what do you attribute that to?
SPEAKER_03:I think it's all the pushback I've gotten, all the problems I've had. I didn't have that many problems at the distillery. Even, you know, I did, I did retail management as well. And I just didn't have that many problems. Like usually people would just come to work. Like I didn't have all the emotions, people being like, you hurt my feelings, or you know, all this other stuff. I just didn't have that, a lot of that. I don't know why. It just never really happened. I'm not really sure what's different about this, but it is different. And it's the staff, but it's also the client. It's yeah, it's just it's a lot more emotion.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:And so it's um, this has pushed me in a different direction to become, I'm coming up face to face with myself a lot more. I'm really realizing my own weaknesses and addressing them immediately. I encourage my team to tell me if I am upsetting them or if I'm doing something they don't agree with. I open, I open myself to criticism. Please share with me. Tell me what I am doing that's wrong, how can I fix it? And then I find a book on it. Um, silly what I do. Um if I'm having a big issue, I'm like, let's deep dive on this. I was really noticing myself procrastinating on stuff, and it was coming out of fear of like not knowing the steps. That was where it was coming from. Like, I wouldn't know how to get started on it, so I would just not do it. And then I would do it. I'm like, this literally takes like five minutes. Like, what are you doing? Yeah. That's always how it goes.
SPEAKER_00:So I have to ask, as from a leadership perspective for me, are there things that you feel like you've learned from me that have added value to you in this position or even just in general as a mom and a person and a wife?
SPEAKER_03:You have taught me fearlessness in a level that I did not possess before. I am very afraid. I've I grew up afraid. I grew up to be um, I very much I grew up to believe that I would go to school, go to college, get married, be a wife and mom. That was going to be my path. But that was what I was told was going to happen. Um, I was mainly raised by my father, and he is very um type A individual. He's not a dominant person, but he was very type A. So everything had to have structures and rules. And, you know, there were a lot of rules I was living within. And um, I think it was good for me to have that, but it also instilled a lot of fear. Like if I go out, something bad's gonna happen. If I if I make a mess, something bad's gonna happen. If I try, if I try and reach above my station, that's a big one. Something bad might happen. Um, you're gonna fail. Why try? And this was never directly said to me. These are things that you infer as a child, you know what I mean? It's probably something he felt interesting that I internalized. Um, but like, why try and do more if you know you're gonna do bad? You might get laughed at. Um, this might not go well for you. And it's better just to stay safe and be have, you know, a good job that provides for your family and not try and overdo it. Don't try to reach too far. So that's something I love to see. I see that a lot in you. I think your reach is terrifying sometimes. Um, I'm like, whoa, that's scary. Like, but I respect it a lot. I respect the hell out of that reach. So that's definitely taught me. One of the biggest things I've learned from you is to ask more questions.
SPEAKER_00:That's good.
SPEAKER_03:You ask a lot of questions.
SPEAKER_00:Um my girls always said that growing up, they hated bringing friends and boys over to the house because they knew that the whoever was coming was going to get grilled with a million questions. Yeah. You I always thought it was a good thing, but not everybody wants to be questioned.
SPEAKER_03:You know, I mean, not everybody wants to have that sort of introspection. And honestly, there are times when I hate not having the answer when you ask me a question. When you ask me a question and I have to be like, I don't know.
SPEAKER_00:I know you hate that, but you guys know that I much rather have you say, I don't know. I know, and then go get the answer and come back to me.
SPEAKER_03:But that's why I will now have all these questions. And it's funny too, because if I'm asking a lot of questions, especially to the managers, they're like trying to infer, which is where it comes. Like, why are you asking me these questions? Like, where are you going with? So they'll try and guess where I'm going with the direction, but they can't guess where I'm going. And I'm like, I'm just asking this because I know Chris is gonna ask me this. I just want to have all of the information before I get into it.
SPEAKER_00:Well, this is a perfect segue because I want to talk about motherhood. And I think this is the part of the story of yours that is gonna hit home for so many of the women who are listening to this podcast. Um, because you know, you're leading this big operation, you're managing a ton of people, and at home you've got twin four-year-old girls. Um, that's it's not for the faint of heart to work and have kids at home, let alone to have twins. So there's this duality between ambition and nurturing that's real. So, first let's start with what does a typical morning look like for you if such a thing even exists?
SPEAKER_03:Well, it definitely does because I'm a crazy person about schedule. So is my husband. So that's nice. We compliment each other in that. Um, we we wake up every day at 6 30. Um, I do. That's Josh wakes up at like five, but um, I wake up at 6 30, usually to two children climbing in bed with me, arguing. They cry every single morning about who's gonna get on the left side of me versus the right side of me. Every morning we go through this. Anyway, I get up. I usually settle them down. I have to take the dog out. I have to give him some love and attention. He needs a lot. Um, and then I have to be with the girls for a minute. I put on my makeup every single day in the car on the way to work. My sister does that too. Every single day. I've done it my whole life, so it doesn't bother me. I walk the most I can do in the morning. I I don't spend a whole lot of time on me. Um, you know, I put on a deodorant and brush my teeth. I brush my hair. I don't put a whole lot into my hair usually. I just like kind of running. But it always looks so amazing. You just have natural P, which is good because I don't have a lot of time for other things. And, you know, um I try and have my clothes ready the night before, but I'm out the door usually within an hour of waking up. And then um, you know, I I need a full hour to drive to work. It only takes me 30 minutes to get there, but I like to take my time. I take back roads, I take pictures of the fog in the morning. Um, I listen to only instrumental music usually on my way to work.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Um, typically movie scores, but not always. Very dramatic movie scores. Um I've been very into um the, oh, what is that movie? It doesn't matter, but um Interstellar, the Interstellar soundtrack I listen to a lot. Um, and I think I do a lot of, you know, meditation and work through my brain. It is probably my favorite time in the morning, is driving in to work.
SPEAKER_00:And I know we have this little unsaid rule. You know, I try to never send you any messages before 8 30 because I want you to have that time.
SPEAKER_03:7 30 to 8 30. It's like my Zen time and I cherish it. I absolutely love it. And then I get into work and I'm usually in a really good headspace because I've spent that time of thinking through everything and feeling it out. And yeah, I don't get a lot of um time just to myself. So it's it's nice to have that hour every day.
SPEAKER_00:So when we talk about motherhood, I know you and I have had a lot of conversations about the guilt that comes with being a working mom. Guilt from your kids who are wanting you to be at home and not be the boss, and sometimes guilt from other moms for not being at home like they think you should be. So, can you talk about that tug of war and how you navigate that guilt? I think you feel guilt no matter what.
SPEAKER_03:Even I mean, I felt guilt when I stayed home too. It was not the same sort of guilt when people are like, What do you do? And I'd be like, Oh, I'm just a stay-at-home mom. There's always that just and I hate that because being home is hard.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and being a stay-at-home mom is so hard. I I feel like a lot of women do that. They feel you can hear that they're ashamed to say, I'm a stay-at-home mom, you know. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:And it's such a luxury to be able to have. And I think that was some issue we kind of talked about is it was a luxury. I I do have that. If I wanted to stay home, I could. So I needed to make sure that if I went to work, there was a reason I could explain to my girls. Um, it was funny because when I first took the position, it was very hard. I cried almost every day for six months driving to work because I just missed them. Like, and they're now too at four. I tell you, the stuff they say to me is horrible. I'm like, what do you have a book like how to make your mom feel really bad about having to go to work? They'll say things like, I don't want you to be the boss. I just want you to be my mom. I'm like, oh my God, where did you even learn to put on such a guilt trip? My goodness. Um, but you know, a big thought process of it for me is number one, first of all, what is gonna fill my cup so that I'm able to pour out. Yep. And a lot of times when I was home, I was short. Um, and things seemed a lot bigger. It's a when your world is small like that, the problems are a bigger deal. And I try and keep that in mind when dealing with anybody. When they're making a huge deal out of something that seems very small to me, I'm like, your world is smaller than mine. You are not saying that this is not that big of a deal. Um, and I try and keep that in perspective now. I'm like, Jen, your problems are not that big of a deal. Like in the grand scheme of things, it's really not. But that's a thought process as a mom that I have to keep in my head. Like, um, my world was a lot smaller then and it's a lot bigger now. So I don't freak out as much. I think I have a lot more patience with my kids now. Um than you did before.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Because I'm I'm also pouring in myself in the moment. I try and be very present with them while I'm with them, very cognizantly present. I am not on my phone. I I have no pictures of them anymore. When I was a stay-at-home mom, like all the pictures in the world I was posting. Now I don't even have a social media. I'm like, why does social media even exist? I'm in this, in this weird space in my head. But I mean, really struggling when I was home, but I felt like I was shorter with them. I I was talking to a friend and she was telling me that her mom was a stay-at-home mom. And um, something that she said really res. She's like, she was a stay-at-home mom, but all she ever did was clean and cook and do laundry. She's like, I never really spent any time with her, but she was around all the time. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:She said that about her mom. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:What a ghost. Yeah. I don't want to be a ghost. And I was starting to feel like one. I told you, I was starting to get a little weird.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Um, I was starred for human connection. So I would just word vomit on anybody who would talk to me. Like in Kroger, hi, want to talk to me? I mean, it was Lord, because I am I am an extrovert. Yes, very much so. That it was challenging. So I felt like in order to be the best version of myself, then I should go back to work. Um, in order to take a job like this, it's even more, right? So I wanted to be able to show my kids that we can reach for the stars, that we can do big things, that we can do stuff that we're scared of. That, you know, their their dad, my, you know, Josh has a big job. Um, but he's a man. And that's expected, which is a horrible guilt and and stress on on men. So I'll put that out there. That's a different ball game. But with women, we're expected, it's okay to not try. It's okay to not do big, big things. And sometimes staying at home and being home with your kids is huge. So I'm not downplaying that at all. But if you have the taste, if you have that hunger and you're not doing it, there's gonna be a problem. Yep. If your hunger is to stay home with your kids, then you are doing the right thing. And that is beautiful to do that. And I I really believe that. And there's still parts of me that I'm in my mind, I'm like, you could you could stay home. We could have a huge garden. I can homeschool my kids, I could, you know, do all this stuff. I'm like, you make everything. I make everything into this huge ordeal because I'm driven for something big. So that's that's kind of why it came to that, where I'm like, I just really probably need to be out and pouring my energy into something else. Because if I stayed home and poured it all into them, that would be exhausting for them. Yep. As I can't imagine having, you know, I I didn't have someone push me that hard. I would push them. So those kids need me to have something else to think about.
SPEAKER_00:Well, and I admire how you are always saying that it's really important to you that the kids see you working and building and achieving and accomplishing. And um, I you know, I agree with you. We talk about work-life balance all the time. And I think you believe the same as I do in that there's not really such a thing. It doesn't really exist. But you can never be a hundred percent mom and a hundred percent working professional and not have one or the other, you know, be sacrificed a little bit. And you know, I think that exactly what you said is what's so important in that making sure that when whatever moment you're in, whether it's as a mom or it's at work, that you're being super intentional and super focused. Because what the kids remember are those moments. And I know that personally because my mom worked three jobs when I was growing up. We also were pretty poor. And so um when I think back to the things that I remember most in our lifetime, it's the little things, the little moments that we had together. It wasn't all the time that she didn't spend with us and all the times that she was at work. So I think that's an important message for people who are having that inner battle with I really want to work, but I feel so guilty because I'm a mom.
SPEAKER_03:My viewpoints of my Parents from the time I was a child till now are quite a bit different because you grow up and you realize that your parents are humans, right? And um, you know, younger, my mom was around a lot. Um, we had a lot of time together. And I loved her. I mean, she was my absolute best friend. I grew up to realize that she she was dealing with a lot, and there was reasons why she wasn't doing more. Um, struggles with PTSD, bipolar disorder. Like there was a lot going on with her that she just wasn't able to achieve more. And um, I think she felt bad about that. So she always gave me a pardon. It was like, it's okay if you can't do it. And um, there was that love, that support. I don't feel like I needed that, but she gave me the best thing that I knew. She she she gave what she probably needed is someone to say, hey, I'll help you. Because she never had that help. Um, growing up with my dad, I had a very solid structure. Um, you know, knew I needed to take care of myself. I actually do think I probably got my ambition from her, which is interesting because she always had big ideas, but I just don't think she ever quite knew how to go through and follow through with it. And then she had a lot of the stressors in the mental capacity on her life kind of added in there. Um, but I remember when, you know, working um at the distillery and and really seeing somebody take on something huge that seemed gigantic to me. Yeah. Like, look at gigantic companies, and it's still amazing. Like you think about Meta, Amazon. It makes me want to puke, right? That is how does that even happen? Yeah. When you create this and it becomes something that's not you anymore. It's literally giving birth. You raise it, you know, and and these giant companies, and that was just unattainable. That wasn't real life. That was something else. When I discovered, when that veil came down, I felt like the third wall, um, the fourth wall broke. Like I'd been on stage my whole life, and all of a sudden I realized that I could actually get off stage. I could go do something else. And that was mind-blowing to me. I don't want the girls to have that limitation. I want them to have that from the rip. It was really not until I was about 30 that that wall came down that I was like, what the what? I don't have to do this stuff. I can do whatever I what? You know, and I it was always, Jen, you could do whatever you want, but it's okay if you don't. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. I want them to understand, like, in order to do big things, you got to drive yourself hard and you've got to push. I want them to be proud. There was a girl I worked with back in Kentucky. She worked at the distillery with me. Her mom was just a powerhouse of a woman. Um, she ran a hotel, but everybody in the community knew who she was. Like everybody. Everybody would say her name. And the the girl I worked with, they would say, you know, oh, you're, you know, blah, blah, blah's daughter. My goodness. And I remember once I was like, is that intimidating? She's like, yeah. Very good. Yeah. And um, but it pushed her. It pushed her to do more. And when you have people expecting things of you, you're gonna accomplish more. When somebody expects nothing from you, yeah, you're not pushed.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that's so true. And you don't just say it like you really do live and embody embrace all the things that you just said. You challenge the girls, you've taught them to ask questions, you make sure they understand and appreciate nature and like where things come from. I I just admire that so much in you. Okay, so we're gonna wrap things up with a little mix of reflection and fun. So I'm gonna give you some rapid fire questions. I don't want you to overthink these. Just tell me the first thing that comes to mind when I give you the questions. So the first one is what's the moment in your career that makes you the most proud? That's a hard one. No thinking. I know.
SPEAKER_03:I'm like, um, I would say probably in the very beginning, crafting, like um when I was at the distillery, crafting the entire tour, like writing it, um, designing the gift shop. I had to go out and find like, you know, displays and things like that and like how to how to organize it. I didn't know I could do anything like that. That's cool. And it was it was cool to see. I was like, it's kind of like I discovered I had magic powers that I didn't know I had before. I was like, look at that.
SPEAKER_00:Wow. Okay. So next question. What's been your favorite panacea memory so far?
SPEAKER_03:It might be our Florida trip last year.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, oh, so every year we do our manager retreat. And last year we went to Florida, we're going to Florida again this year.
SPEAKER_03:So Yeah, those those are it, it's just bonding. It's like um coming together uh with a group of like-minded people and being committed toward a direction. And um, that's what it felt like to me, and that was special.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I love that. Okay, one piece of advice that you would give to women who are trying to do it all to be okay with failing.
SPEAKER_03:And I think um women who try to do it all are typically quite type A, typically have the perfectionism issues, are terrified to fail. Yep. Um, so stretch yourself a little thin, uh, pull up your pants and just go for it.
SPEAKER_00:Be uncomfortable with the uncomfortable. Yeah, or be comfortable with the uncomfortable. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_03:Be okay with failure. Yeah. It's it's um, you know, just try, try and do it anyway. And um, if you fail, well, you learned your limitation there.
SPEAKER_00:Coffee, tea, or matcha? Tea. Sauna or cold plunge? Cold plunge. Steam room or hot hydrotherapy pool? Hot hydrotherapy pool. Oh, I'm a I'm a steam room girl. Okay, LED or hyperbaric. Hyperbaric. All right. I was expecting you to go the other way on that. Um massage, facials, or nail services? Facials. That'll surprise you. That does surprise me. That's been recent. I love that. Well, especially at Panacea because we do so much massage in with the facials. So dude, the the facials are incredible.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. I've had a lot of facials in my life, and our facials, I I ask so many questions during the facial. Shocker. I know. I'm like, what's that do? Why are you doing that? What kind of ingredients? And I it's it's like um It's so fascinating.
SPEAKER_00:There's so much that goes on with aesthetics and skincare. And I like it. It's a lot deeper from a science perspective, for sure. Okay, cocktails or mocktails?
SPEAKER_03:Cocktails.
SPEAKER_00:Healthy food or junk food. You want to say healthy, but it's junk. I know. Would that be everybody? Sweet or salty? Salty. You can't live without skincare product.
SPEAKER_03:So always for me, it was um like in from the boutique, it was definitely the triad pads, but now I it's like I'm really obsessed with the Bacucciol moisturizer.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, it uh and it smells so good.
SPEAKER_03:I'm also really quickly becoming obsessed with the rose hip oil.
SPEAKER_00:I love the rose hip oil.
SPEAKER_03:I've seen a difference.
SPEAKER_00:But the Bacucciol is giving you your vitamin A, so it's a retinol alternative that's not super, you know, intense for the skin. So you're gonna see long-term results from that, which is awesome.
SPEAKER_03:That's one I can't run out of. I'll tell you that.
SPEAKER_00:That's awesome. Um, okay, one thing you've been dying to ask me.
SPEAKER_03:How do you how do you stay in your lane? How do you stay with the direction that you're going and you don't waver?
SPEAKER_00:That's a great question. I I think I've just always had really strong convictions about everything my whole entire life. And I'm sure that comes from probably my grandparents. My grandma was a super strong-minded, strong-headed person who was very driven, very motivated, um, very focused. And, you know, the hard work and the grit and the determination definitely comes from my mom and my grandpa. So I think that, you know, for me, once I've made my mind up about something, like there's no going back on it. Like I it's a letdown to myself if I say I'm gonna do something and I don't stick to it. It's like it's not about everybody else. It's like I have to prove to myself.
SPEAKER_03:Is that innately in you? Or is has that always been in you? Yeah, no, it's always something cultivated.
SPEAKER_00:No, I think that's always been in me. I mean, I can remember as far back as you know, kindergarten, like having to be so perfect with every single paper and making sure I had the straight A's and like I've just my room always perfectly spotless, clean. Like, I I don't know really where that came from. It I've just always been that way. So my desk, on the other hand, never clean, which you know. Okay. One word that one word that describes this season of your life.
SPEAKER_03:Busy. I even hate that. Um, busy. Uh I I will say um growth too is a big one. Good. What's next for you?
unknown:I don't know.
SPEAKER_03:I I stopped making plans a while ago. Yeah. Um, I go where I feel called. Right now I know I'm supposed to be here. We've talked about that. I I'm a firm believer in synchronicities and all the all the things. I feel like I'm right where I need to be um in order to get to the next stage, but I don't know what that looks like. I'm really not sure, but I'm I'm open.
SPEAKER_00:Well, I hope it's something that we do together because I'll talk to you about it. Okay. Okay, when are you gonna write a book? You have to write a book. I know.
SPEAKER_03:I don't know. When I I do not have that direction that you do. I I am not singular. I always think I am like um I have a rocket engine strapped to my back, but one of my wings is a little wonky, so I just like this. Um, I need to fix the wing, I think, in order to get the momentum going forward. Um, I need to just sit down and make myself do it.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Well, I'm excited for that book, and that's all the questions I have for today. So you did it. Hopefully, this wasn't too painful for you. And my final parting question is do you think you would do the podcast again? I would come anytime you'd ask me. I love it. Okay, Jen. So this has been super fun. Um, I really, really loved having you on my show and particularly love this conversation because it's such a real look at personal development, leadership, friendship, motherhood, plus all the imperfect beauty that goes on in between when you're trying to build something meaningful. And I think that's really valuable for all of our listeners, not just the women out there. And that's exactly why I wanted to record this show with you because what we have at Panacea isn't just about services and saunas, it's about people and pride and partnership, love, growth, um, managing people and professionals and the hilariously human side of just trying to make it all work. And it's a lot. And I think it's great for people to hear about someone else who's going through maybe the same things that they're going through. So if you're listening and feeling pulled between career and your kids are wondering if you're doing enough, I hope this episode has inspired you and maybe even giving you the answers you've been looking for to move forward with the next chapter of your life. So that's it for today's episode. Thank you for listening to Serenity and Fire. If today's episode did inspire you, the best way to support the show is to follow, leave a review, or share it with someone who might need this message. Until next time, keep balancing serenity with fire. I'm Krista Gojenny, and I'll talk with you in our next episode. At Panacea Luxury Spa Boutique, we don't just offer traditional spa treatments. We create rituals that relax your mind, restore your health, and rejuvenate your spirit. From biohacking technologies to advanced oncology trained care, everything we do is designed to help you heal on the deepest level with clean, holistic therapies, products, and amenities that are second to none. And right now you can experience two of my favorites our whole body LED lightbed or hyperbaric oxygen therapies. And as a thank you for listening, you'll get 10% off your first session when you use the code Serenity10 at booking. What is your panacea? Let us help you find it because true wellness isn't a quick fix, it's a ritual.