Skincare Made Simple: Why Some Skincare Works and Some Doesn't

Skincare gets loud fast: 12-step routines, miracle acids, “clean” labels that mean nothing, and advice that changes depending on who you ask. Krista Quagenti sits down with Panacea Luxury Spa Boutique aesthetics manager and sales training manager Cayley Rich to quiet the noise and build a routine that makes sense, even if you’re starting from zero. Cayley is also a mom of three kids under five, so we keep it practical, not precious.

We talk through what clients ask for most, why anti-aging is really about prevention, and how sun damage shows up sooner than you think. Cayley explains why mineral sunscreen matters every single day (yes, even when it’s cloudy or you work by a window), how UVA rays drive visible aging, and how a VIZIA skin analysis can reveal UV damage under the surface and track progress over time. We also dig into vitamin C in the morning, why you should press it into your skin instead of rubbing it in your hands, and how vitamin C can support your sunscreen.

From there, we simplify the rest: double cleansing, choosing the right cleanser for oily versus dry skin, how long products actually take to work, and why moisturizer is not optional even for oily skin. We break down vitamin A and retinoid options, gentle retinol alternatives, niacinamide for redness and congestion, and exfoliation basics including AHA vs BHA vs PHA. We also discuss peels, barrier damage, and why professional guidance matters, especially for sensitive skin and oncology-trained care.

If you like what you hear, subscribe, share the show with a friend, and leave a review. And if you want to try Panacea’s services, you’ll get 10% off your first session when you use code Serenity10 at booking.

Transcript

Welcome To Serenity And Fire

Krista 0:11

Welcome to Serenity and Fire, the podcast where wellness meets grit. I'm your host, Krista Quadenti, founder of Pennsylvania Luxuries Bobby Team. Join me as we dive into the intriguing world of biohacky, clean living, cutting-edge thought trends, and the hustle pride and grit of entrepreneurship. For my personal battles with weight management and fertility, and the 30-year journey to create and launch my dream business. To building a sanctuary for those who have been touched by cancer, I'm here to share World Hawk, inspire big dreams, and spark a passion for holistic living inside each and every one of you. So let's dive in. Welcome back to Serenity and Fire. I want to welcome someone who is an integral part of my team at Panacea Luxury Spa Boutique and someone to whom I am incredibly grateful for. She inspires, she leads, she's created a rock star first-in-class aesthetics team. She's also a mom of three babies. Please welcome my aesthetics manager and also my sales training manager, Kayleigh Rich. That was quite the introduction. Thank you. Gosh, special. Also true. And Kaylee, I'm so excited to finally have you here because we've been talking about this for months, I think. I think even before the holidays. Yes. But you had to go ahead and

Meet Kayleigh And The Juggle

Krista 1:30

have another baby.

SPEAKER_02 1:30

So I did do that, yes.

Krista 1:33

Um, and we you welcomed baby Jay here, what, three months ago?

SPEAKER_02 1:38

About four, yeah, March, yes. Okay. All right.

Krista 1:40

So Kaylee has three little ones, all under the age of five, her youngest being about four months old. Yes. And then little Lila, who is almost two, and then Kate, who's gonna be five or is already five.

SPEAKER_02 1:52

He's five, yep. He started in kindergarten this year.

Krista 1:55

So exciting. Yeah. Awesome. So we actually opened Panacea about three and a half years ago. And you've actually had your last two babies since we opened. Yes. So we all kind of feel like, you know, we all got to have the baby too, even though you even though you did all the work.

SPEAKER_02 2:15

Everybody did help out a lot at the spa. Yes. Lots of snacks were had and uh lots of help. So I'll take it.

Krista 2:22

And you also moved into a brand new home. Yes. And your husband has been promoted twice, I think, and just recently in his job as a police officer. So that's really exciting. So just lots of growth, lots of huge life transitions going on for you and your family, um, which is super exciting. I'm sure it feels crazy for you though.

SPEAKER_02 2:41

It does, yeah. We're definitely have a full schedule about all the time. So it's it can be a lot, but it's a lot of fun.

Krista 2:47

Well, and I feel like I have a crazy full plate all of the time, but then I think about everything that you're doing, and like I'm just so inspired and so amazed at everything that you do and how you hold it all together. And that's one of the big things I want to talk about on the episode today. But before we jump into that, can

The “Is This A Scam?” Job Interview

Krista 3:05

you tell one of my favorite stories, which is your our like your panacea origination story?

SPEAKER_02 3:11

Oh yeah. Um, so I was fresh out of aesthetics school and I was looking around at um jobs on Indeed, and um I kept seeing Panacea pop up, and I I looked at it and it was just like renderings basically of pictures, and I like tried to search the business, and I was like, what like what is this place? And I applied to probably like three or four different places, and I applied at panacea, obviously. Um, and I was like showing my husband, I was like, I don't know, is this place even like a scam? Like, do you think I should, do you think I should show up to it? And he's like, I honey, I think it's fine. It's really not the big deal. I'm like, it looks like it's in the middle of like a like a lake or a quarry, like there's no buildings, like I don't know what's going on. And um, he's like, I I think you should just try it. And if you don't like it, then that's fine. And um, yeah, so I I interviewed um at Panacea and a couple different other places. And um, when I came in, there was like no walls, like the whole part where like the hyperbaric and the offices was like steel beams. And my first interview, it was um at like a card table. Um in construction done.

Krista 4:16

Yeah, in construction floor, steel walls. I don't even know if we had windows. Did we have windows?

SPEAKER_02 4:22

Yeah, and like part of the spa was like I think they were laying the flooring like in the hall, like the back hallway that day, actually. So I got to like step around people. I I got showed around and um yeah, so there was like you guys didn't have like there was no water, like I would I didn't bring water in, and I was like, We have no restrooms, I think you have to go, we're gonna have to leave the site. Yeah, so uh yeah, so I did have to run down to my car and like try and like desperately find like a bottle of water because I didn't have any. Um and I was like, okay, great, they're not gonna want me back. Um, but yeah, it it obviously ended up working out really well. And um I I was offered the position and um it was like a little bit of a longer start date than I was anticipating.

Krista 5:02

Um I was yeah, we actually um had expected to open in like October, September, October of 2022. And then we just had so many construction delays, and well, you know, you lived it. We didn't open until end up opening until really February, March time frame.

SPEAKER_02 5:20

But yeah, I mean it it worked out for me because if you had opened early, then I wouldn't have, you know, I wasn't even finished with school yet. And so it honestly I think it worked out for a reason.

Krista 5:28

But well, we think so too. I'm so happy that you took the job despite one day that it was a huge tiny scam. It was not a scam. So I I know that I always tell you, and we have a handful of people who are still with the team now who started in that phase with us and have been with us since we opened. And I'm always telling you guys I'm so incredibly grateful for the fact that you took that huge leap of faith. Some of you quit jobs um to come work at Panacea, not knowing anything about us, us, not having any brand identity, like literally nothing, and like you said, no walls, yeah, no free intern, no bathrooms, like all the things. And you guys, you know, still moved forward. So to this day and forevermore, I'll always be so grateful to you and the others who, you know, took that chance and decided to stay on with Panacea. So thank you. Thank you. Okay,

Why Skincare Feels So Confusing

Krista 6:20

so one of the other reasons that besides talking about, you know, the challenge of balancing mom life and work life, which we're gonna get a little bit deep into here in a bit, I really felt like one of the biggest reasons I wanted to have you on the show is because so many people are just really confused about skincare and they just don't know where to start, what products to use, what order to use them in, when to use them, whether or not they need to exfoliate, how they should even do that if they should. And don't even get me started on all of the toners and the sunscreens and the peels and the retinols and the vitamin C and E and A and niacinamide and moisturizers, and then you've got all of the devices and a million other products that are out there. Um, and then there's this whole debate around natural versus medical grade, which is something that we talk about a lot. And then we have to get into cost, of course. So is expensive actually better? So today for everyone out there who's listening, I really want to try to help simplify skincare for everyone and provide answers to some of those questions that I just posed. So I figured who better to help me do that than my panacea aesthetics expert, someone who lives and breathes skincare all day long. So I do.

SPEAKER_02 7:36

I'm excited. Thank you.

Krista 7:37

So let's start with the most common questions that people ask us um when they're either coming in for a facial or maybe they're just in the spa and they just don't know anything about skin. What do you feel like people ask you the most?

SPEAKER_02 7:51

Oh, that's a tough question. Um, I'd say everybody wants to focus on anti-aging, just about like 99.9% of people always check anti-aging, so that's always a big thing.

Krista 8:01

And mind you, our client base is pretty vast.

Anti-Aging As Prevention Not Panic

Krista 8:05

I mean, we have people in their 20s, people obviously in their you know, 60s, 70s, 80s. Um, so it's all across the board. And I feel like everyone at every age, this is something that they care about.

SPEAKER_02 8:15

Yeah. Well, and with anti-aging, it's very um it's different to get into because a lot of times, you know, you'll hear from like one side, oh, like it's what do you need that for? You know, you're you're 25 and you know, you don't have any wrinkles. And you know, I try to explain, you know, it's not that I don't have wrinkles, but I don't want to get them. It's anti-aging, you know, it's much easier to prevent something than it is to correct it. So especially with home skincare, you know, we're really wanting to focus on, you know, developing that routine early on, making sure that we're consistent with it, you know, getting spa treatments, um, and you know, just really making sure that we're keeping up on everything.

Krista 8:50

I think it's so important because when I look back at how my grandparents looked at my age, and I'm almost 52, they looked so old and I love them to death. But like the difference is astonishing. And you see it, you know, with a lot of actors on TV, they're in their like 70s and 80s, and they look like they're but like 45. Oh yeah. So having that skincare routine early, I agree with you, is so important. And I think one of the biggest things for me was definitely being taught by my mom early to use moisturizer, um, to use sunscreen all the time. And I think those things have helped preserve my skin. But I think on the other side of things is helping clients understand and appreciate the skin that they're in and loving who they are, no matter what stage they're at, and then us trying to help them find ways to um age gracefully and maybe slow down the aging process too. What do you think about that?

SPEAKER_02 9:44

No, I totally agree. It's very important and it and it gets hard because um, you know, sometimes like I I've had um, you know, clients say, I really don't like having my skin judged. And that just kind of like hurts my heart a little bit because I'm like, I don't I don't want to judge your skin, you know. I just I want to help you focus on things that are important to you and you know, things that, you know, like maybe we can just help, you know, diminish something, you know, like if you're having more fine lines and wrinkles and you don't really want them, you know, is there products that we can do or you know, treatments, you know, at the spa that we can kind of help with that, and the answer is yes, we do. I have a lot of them, by the way.

Krista 10:15

Yeah, I agree. What about sun damage? I hear from a lot of people, especially younger people, like come in and they're like, Oh

Sun Damage And The VISIA Scan

Krista 10:20

my gosh, I have all this sun damage and now it's too late. Like, what am I gonna do?

SPEAKER_02 10:24

I wouldn't say it's not too late, you know. You always uh the earlier you can start the better. Um, I will say, you know, with my age group, it's a little bit we've been ingrained more with like sunscreen and you know, not using tanning beds. And I know I'll have clients that are in their, you know, kind of more 50s that they're like, yeah, well, I used to lay outside doing, you know, with tanning oil and baby oil, and you know, we went to the tanning bed, and you know, we lived at the pool, no sunscreen. So um it's definitely a different, I guess, like generation um thing that you can see kind of playing in that. Um, it's definitely not too light though. Um, vitamin C is a really great um, you know, source to help with like brightening and sun damage, making sure we're doing daily sunscreen. Um, there's a lot of like good habits that you can start to kind of help, you know, reverse some of that. Um, we do have our VIZIA analysis um skin hypothesis.

Krista 11:06

That's so awesome.

SPEAKER_02 11:07

Yes, we have it at the spa. It's so wonderful. I actually need to scan myself soon. It's been a while.

Krista 11:12

I do too. I haven't done it since before we opened, so my god to do it again.

SPEAKER_02 11:16

Yeah, well, so the VIZIA is um really cool because it you know it goes like down and shows you things in your dermal layer that like you can't see to like you know, it shows you your UV damage that's underneath your skin. Um, and it actually kind of helps to track it too. You know, if you come in and get rescans every you know six to twelve months, um it actually is like a really cool tool that we can use to show the progress and change in your skin, especially when it comes to like you know, vine lines and wrinkles and sun damage and you know, kind of changing that.

Krista 11:42

I love that it also shows your true skin age. So it does it will actually tell you what your what your age of what your age is. Obviously, you know your age, but what your skin ages at with when when compared to other people in your age group and of your gender. And then I also love that it does that age progression analysis up to 80 years old. So being able to show people what their skin will likely look like by the time they're 80 years old if they continue doing what they're doing right now is pretty powerful.

SPEAKER_02 12:11

Oh yeah, it's a very cool tool. I also like that it um does like the age regression, so it'll kind of, you know, like sometimes I'll you know, get a woman and it pushes her back to about 20, and she's like, oh my gosh, look at me. Or, you know, if I have someone in their 20s, it'll like push them up to you know, close and be like, oh my gosh, it looks just like my mom. So you can like tell it told it works.

Krista 12:27

That's very 100% for sure, for sure. So, what other kind of questions do you think people ask you a lot about?

SPEAKER_02 12:34

Definitely a routine for at home. Um, and it can be very daunting. I feel like there's like there's so much information, there's so many different lines and products, and this person says this, and this esthetician says that, and but my dermatologist says that this is a good idea. So just kind of like being able to filter that out and you know, make something that works for you and like your routine and your skin, um, I think is really important.

Krista 12:58

Um that's definitely yeah, and I also think that you know you can have two extremes when it comes to skincare. There are some products out there that can kind of take care of everything in one skincare treatment um or

Building A Routine That Fits Life

Krista 13:10

at least address your top major concerns. And then there are like people like me, as you can see here, this is my morning routine and this is my evening routine, which is you know excessive for I would say 99% of the people out there. Um, but I just love all of the stuff, so I just use all of the stuff and I'm very um consistent and very committed to doing that. I actually um I don't know, I I don't know, five or six years ago, I started to notice that I had this like deep, I was starting to get this like deep wrinkle here on my lip. And I was like, that is not happening. And so I literally like everything I can possibly use to prevent that, I use. And so that's why I use a lot of these products. And I've you know personally never had Botox or filler, and I don't feel like I have eleven lines or frown lines or you know, forehead lines, or even that deep wrinkle getting worse. So I do think there's a lot that you can do with natural skincare to help stave off the aging process. What what do you think about that?

SPEAKER_02 14:17

Oh, yeah, absolutely. Um it gets really difficult too because um, and I explain this to clients at this well all the time, they're like, Well, what about you know this product line? And I tell them I was like, I'm really honest. Um, I'm very into like non-toxic, you know, like living in general, especially when it comes to products that we put on our, you know, our skin. Our skin's our largest organ in our body, so everything you're putting on is being absorbed into that. Um This is why you you fit in so well, panacea. Well, thank you. But um if you like think about it, I think the actually you had told me like one of our first days like in training when we were like in the conference room, and um the average woman puts on, I think it's like a hundred, around 140 chemicals a day before she walks out the door. Yeah. So I mean you have to think that's from your hairspray and your toothpaste and your makeup and your skincare, like everything that you're putting on, you know, contains all of these, unfortunately not great ingredients that are in them. Um, and you actually really opened my eye to that. And I like immediately home and I was like, I thought I was using good stuff. Because like, you know, like even like laundry detergent, I'm like, oh, like all free and clear.

Krista 15:19

It's not actually all free and clear. It's one of the worst ones out there, honestly. Like, as far as like what it advertises to the public versus what it is actually doing to your body and what you're actually putting on your body. It's actually it's very frustrating for me.

SPEAKER_02 15:34

Oh, yeah, it is. And there's so many, like there's like marketing and packaging, you know, looks so different. And you know, you're like, this looks like it's a cleaner brand because it's maybe got some green on it, or it looks a little bit. But then you look it up and you know, you uh and it's not unfortunately. So um I get questions a lot. I actually had a client like two weeks ago and she goes, So tell me the truth. Do you really use like the products here? And I'm like, Yes, I I actually do. I use most of them, if I'm being honest. Probably too many of them. Hopefully, my husband doesn't hear that part. But I always bring stuff on, he's like, Is that new? And I'm like, no, no, no, it's old, I got it. Um, but yeah, I mean, natural skincare, it's um for me, it's really important. I, you know, I compare it to like food a lot, and you know, or like working out, like skincare, it's very similar. So it's like, are you, you know, drinking orange juice that is from you know, like Minute Made concentrate that has like orch flavoring in it? Like, you know, maybe that's some other skincare brand. Yeah, exactly. Or are we drinking, you know, like the all-natural, like no added sugar, you know, like cold pressed juices? Like, you know, it's that's kind of like the difference that I see in, you know, the most easy way to think about it when it comes to skincare.

SPEAKER_03 16:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:44

Um, and with how important it is just kind of making that swap. Like, is it similar? Sure, but you know, like what benefits is your body actually getting from it?

Krista 16:51

Yeah, I agree with that. And it's not that our bodies can't handle some toxins, they definitely can, but to your point, it's the overwhelming amount of toxins that we're putting on our body every single day. Your cup eventually overflows and your body can't handle it. So wherever we can find places to cut some of those things out, all the better for our clients. And and that's why we love the skincare brands that we carry at Panacea. And I don't force you guys to use the products, but it makes me really happy that you all do. I think um that's you know, pretty much everyone on our team is using our products

Cleansing Basics And Double Cleansing

Krista 17:25

in some way, shape, or form. And I I love that because that means it's working and that you guys believe in them.

SPEAKER_02 17:29

So oh, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely.

Krista 17:32

So, what about let's talk about cleansing? I feel like a lot of people are like, oh, I don't cleanse, or I just use water, or I don't need to cleanse every day.

SPEAKER_02 17:42

Uh cleansing is very important. So, you know, um when we really get into that, like to me, uh like just kind of basically taking care of your skin in general is like a cleanser, moisturizer, and sunscreen. Like if you're like that's just like very basic kind of I'm you know, hygiene kind of thing. Um so with cleansing, we're really like, you know, getting down to the skin, getting rid of like that like buildup of like dirt and pollution that gets into our pores from the day. I mean, you know, there's makeup, you're outside, um, you're sweating, you know. So like cleansing is super important. And I I do double cleanse, um, which I feel that everybody should explain that to our listeners. Okay, so double cleansing, ideally, you're gonna do an oil cleanser first, um, especially if you wear makeup, and even if you don't, I I honestly I don't really wear makeup I am today. But what but what if my skin is oily? Um, so it's actually really beneficial for oily skin um because oil attracts oil. So um, if you think about it, your pores are clogged and they have oil in them. So if you're using an oil cleanser, it's actually gonna help pull the oils out. Um, our stone crop cleansing oil from Eminence is my favorite, so I use that one first. It smells amazing. It does, yes. Um, so I use that one first, and then if I'm being honest, I probably have like three or four other cleansers that I rotate depending on the day that I do for my second cleanse. Um, but just really making sure that you kind of get in there, you don't need to do anything too crazy. I feel like that's a lot of what I hear is I don't have time to do this. And I'm like, okay, we'll set a timer and see how long it actually takes you. You know, it's really, you know, you're like 60 seconds, nothing too and that oil-based cleanser.

Krista 19:10

Um, so you're doing the oil cleanse first, and you're doing that typically on dry skin, right? Yes, dry skin, dry hands. Yep, we don't want any water in it. And that's gonna help emulsify and pull those oils and dirts and makeups off of the skin. Exactly. Yeah, and then so then you rinse that.

SPEAKER_02 19:26

Yes, and you rinse.

Krista 19:27

And then you do your regular cleanser.

SPEAKER_02 19:29

Yes, exactly. Um, and that regular cleanser, I mean, I'll be honest, I kind of rotate between some, um, but there's some for different skin types. I mean, you know, and it's also on preference. Some people like a creamy cleanser, and some people really feel like they need like that, like, you know, soapy feeling to get their skin clean. Um, and neither a right or wrong. That's you know, to me, I feel like as long as you know you're getting your skin clean, whatever um works for you is kind of more of a preference base. Um, I will say that ours have a lot of active ingredients than most. Um so if you're using kind of like a drugstore brand, you know, that's like a general cleanser, um, it's not that it's not good for your skin per se, um, at least in my opinion, but um, you know, there's definitely more that we can do and kind of packing in different, you know, ingredients and can help a lot.

Krista 20:11

Well, and I also think, and we're gonna get into the drugstore versus spa-based or spa grade uh skincare products discussion in a little bit, but on that topic, you also get a lot of things in drugstore-based products that you don't know what they are exactly. And so you're putting maybe not the highest grade of products on your skin, they're typically super, super diluted with typically water and other things. So the potency of those products they they seem great because they are inexpensive, but then you're going through them super fast because you need to use a lot more of them and the potency isn't as good.

SPEAKER_02 20:49

Exactly. Yeah, like um our cleansers that we have, I mean, I use like like the tiniest P size amount and like mix water with it. So, like my cleansers, they last, you know, for like a couple months, honestly. Um, and then you know, versus having to use like two or three pumps of you know something and you know having to replace it every couple weeks, uh you know, makes a big difference.

Krista 21:07

Yeah, I would say my cleansers and I I stay pretty religious to my cleansers. I might rotate them out, like I'll use one until it's gone and then I'll try a different one. But I would say mine last at least three months.

SPEAKER_04 21:17

Yeah.

Krista 21:18

So using the right amount of product when you're looking at a spa grade product is very important. Um, these products that we carry don't have all of those extra preservatives in them, and you're getting the true potency of the product, and they're actually using clean, natural ingredients to preserve the product so that we're not diluting it down and also you're not putting harmful chemicals on your body.

SPEAKER_02 21:41

Oh, exactly.

Krista 21:42

And they smell so good. I know they do.

SPEAKER_02 21:45

Every client I have, they're like, oh my gosh, what is that? That smells so good. And I'm like, well, it's because it like actually has strawberries in it. It's not like scented, you know, like it's like the actual like fruit. It's it's in it. It's great. Yeah.

Krista 21:56

Yeah, that's awesome. Okay, so back on cleansing. So How often should someone cleanse?

SPEAKER_02 22:02

Twice a day. Um, so I I do not double cleanse in the morning, I will say. Um, but I do do a great double cleanse in the evening um just to kind of help get off the day. Um, and then in the morning, I do definitely um use my like normal cleanser to go before the rest of my skincare.

Krista 22:17

Do you think water temperature matters when you're cleansing?

SPEAKER_02 22:20

Yes. So I typically do like lukewarm, a little bit like warmer water. Um, cold water, you're really not like getting in to be able to like clean it. You know, you do need warm water, same thing like when you wash your hands. Um you want more water.

Krista 22:31

Because that's helping to like open up the pores and help get all of this stuff out. Is that why?

SPEAKER_02 22:36

Um it does, yes, but also just to kind of help like actually like get in and get the dirt out. Um I'm pretty sure it's just proven, you know, that warm water works better. Um, you also don't want the water to be too hot, too, um, because you don't want it to mess with like irritate your skin, mess with skin barrier kind of thing. So we don't want to use like, you know, super hot water on the skin either.

Krista 22:54

Okay. Um, okay, then let's talk about how long it takes typically for products like we're talking about to actually work. Because I feel like people come in and they're

Product Quality And How Long It Lasts

Krista 23:05

like, okay, I'm gonna see improvements like tonight, right? Or like in a few days. What what is what do you tell people when they say that?

SPEAKER_02 23:13

Um, that would be great, I will say. Um, you do have to be consistent. So that's the other thing that um is really important. Like, are you buying these products and you're going home and you know you're only doing your routine two or three nights a week? Um, you know, that's definitely gonna change your results. Um, if you're consistent with your skincare routine, um typically I would say you should see results within four to six weeks. Um and I do recommend like when you start a new routine, you know, and you're consistent with it, taking pictures before um you start, and then you know, like a week or two in, and then you know, kind of towards the end, because it's difficult to see change in your own skin if you know you're looking at it all the time, you're like, wait, does that wrinkle really look a little bit better? Or you know, that kind of thing. So those pictures definitely kind of help too. Um, but yeah, the four to six weeks I would say.

Krista 23:56

Okay, fair. And then what about okay, let's get into sunscreen? Because we already talked a little bit about it. I think a lot of people feel like they can just skip sunscreen or they don't really see the importance of it. So tell me your thoughts on skin sunscreen.

SPEAKER_02 24:09

Okay, sunscreen's very important. So to me, like if I were to not leave the house with anything, I would put sunscreen on.

Krista 24:15

Same. That's my number one, like, can't live without product.

SPEAKER_02 24:19

Yes. If somebody tells you they don't have a skincare routine, the first thing I do is I'm like, okay, let's get you some sunscreen first, because that's like that's so important. Um, and I feel like there's been a lot of debate, uh, and I've had clients coming in asking, Well, I heard sunscreen's bad for you now, um, because you're not supposed to use it. And I'm like, well, are you talking about chemical sunscreen or mineral sunscreen? Um, because there's a big difference in it. Um, mineral sunscreen, of course, is what we use. Um, so mineral sunscreen uses non-nano zinc oxide to help basically create that barrier on your skin and helps to block the sun's rays from it, where chemical sunscreen is going to like absorb some of the sun's rays. So it actually makes your pigmentation darker and it actually makes your skin warmer too. Um, but the other thing I hear a lot is well, it's not even sunny out today, or you know, I don't I work from home and you know, I just kind of uh I don't really need it that much. Um and to that I will say you do. Which uh so the sun's rays basically, you know, there's different forms of like wavelength and light. Um the UVA rays are are aging rays. So I always remember A aging. Um and so those are around all the time, they very easily penetrate through clouds and through glass. Um, I think they say about 70 to 80 percent of our sun damage actually occurs um from normal daily activities versus actually just like going to the beach. Um so that's gonna be from like walking your dog or getting the mail or driving to pick up the kids. Um, all of that is sun damage and it's coming into your skin.

Krista 25:47

So and I think you know, sunscreen is not only gonna help protect us from skin cancer, it protects us from DNA damage, it helps protect us from UV-driven collagen breakdown, and then like you said, pigmentation or you know, hyperpigmentation and sunspots. So absolutely, and I think driving's like one of those big things that nobody really thinks about. Well, I'm just gonna hop in the car and run to the store really quick, no big deal. But when we look at people on the Vizia machine, I was just gonna say that a lot where the left side of their face is aged more than the right side of their face.

SPEAKER_02 26:21

Absolutely. Actually, almost every single time the the left and right side are on the Vizia, they're not the same age, and the left side's usually a year or two older. Every once in a while I'll get somebody on the right and I'm like, Are you a passenger a lot? And they're like, Oh, yeah, I am. I'm like, okay, I can tell. That makes sense then.

Krista 26:36

That does make sense. Okay, let's talk about moisturizers and eye creams.

SPEAKER_04 26:40

Okay.

Krista 26:41

Do we need both? What do you think about, you know, do people even need to have a moisturizer? Do they need eye creams?

SPEAKER_02 26:49

You definitely need moisturizer. Um, and I know a lot of times people uh hear um is well, my skin's

When You Should Expect Results

SPEAKER_02 26:55

oily, so I don't feel like I need it. Um and it's actually the opposite. Um, so especially if if you have oily skin, you know, your your skin craves like that moisture, so it's trying to produce its own, um basically. So it's producing more oil. So if and especially if you have oily skin, typically people like to use something like more purifying products on it. Um, and so if you're kind of stripping away all that oil and then not applying a moisturizer, your skin is actually producing more oil to try and like keep up. So it's like, oh my gosh, where's my oil? Where's my you know, where's my um humectant kind of thing? It needs like that moisture to it. Um, so it's very important to make sure you're putting a moisturizer on.

unknown 27:32

Definitely.

Krista 27:32

Yeah, and I think also moisturizer helps boost our skin barrier protection. It also helps um reduce inflammation in the skin. Yes. Um and help helps prepare our skin for all of the other things that we're putting on it before we put the moisturizer on.

SPEAKER_02 27:48

Yes. Um oh, and eye creams was your other question. Yes, eye creams. So um eye creams, the skin around our eyes is so thin. Um, and we actually wrinkle them a lot because you know, we hopefully smile.

Krista 28:02

Um we're squinting because we're not wearing sunglasses.

SPEAKER_02 28:04

Or we're squinting, exactly. Um, so we wrinkle our eyes a lot. So typically in women, um, where we see signs of aging um around the eyes um is where most women start to notice it first. Um, and I think just from that. Um so making sure that we're you know using an eye cream that has um you know some moisture in it, um a good peptide is great. I think I see your peptide eye cream over there. Yeah, I do.

Krista 28:26

About two that I use actually.

SPEAKER_02 28:28

I'm not surprised.

Krista 28:30

Oh, here it is. This one, so I use this one for um like dark circles and um bags under my eyes, and I use this one for um

Mineral Sunscreen Versus Chemical Sunscreen

Krista 28:40

the anti-aging and the collagen boosting. And like help they both help with wrinkles, but I feel like this one really helps with the wrinkles.

SPEAKER_02 28:46

Yes.

Krista 28:47

Would you agree?

SPEAKER_02 28:48

I do agree. They are good picks, yeah. Any any kind of peptides and those both have peptides in them, so no, you need to be good, yeah.

Krista 28:56

And I guess I think a lot of people ask, well, can't I just use my moisturizer as my eye cream?

SPEAKER_02 29:02

Um, I mean, it's hard to be like, you need an eye cream, you know, because sometimes I will say, like, uh it can be you know daunting to have you know that 20-step skincare routine. Um so you know, if it's not something that's as important to you and you know, you I you know it's that's hard to say.

Krista 29:19

Um I think also too, sometimes if if it comes down to budget, yes, and you have to pick one or the other, I would say the moisturizer. Exactly. Because then you can use it everywhere and you're still gonna get great benefit even around the eyes.

SPEAKER_02 29:32

Exactly. And that's where I find a lot of times where um, you know, people are trying to pick and choose, like, you know, obviously, would we love to have this all? Yes. Um, it does cost a lot of money to, you know, to keep up and maintain it, um, you know, especially with different, you know, treatments and stuff too. So um, yeah, I I agree.

Krista 29:48

So on that note, if you well, you already said that basically if you were stranded on a desert island or the house was burning down, the one product that you would grab is your sunscreen. Yes. I would concur with that.

SPEAKER_02 30:01

Yeah.

Krista 30:02

But if you had to pick, if that wasn't the case and there were no crazy extremes, okay, and you could only pick three products that you would recommend, what would you tell people that you feel are the most important? Okay.

SPEAKER_02 30:15

Does this include like cleanser, moisturizer?

Krista 30:17

All the all the things, all the categories. They can only have three. Only three? Okay.

SPEAKER_02 30:22

Well then I think I think I already said it. I mean, you definitely need to cleanse, moisturizer, and sunscreen. Those are our top three. Um, absolutely.

Krista 30:29

Yep. I think for me, sunscreen 100% for sure. Um I know cleansing so hard because it's like you have to cleanse. Yes. That's what I'm like, I don't feel like it should count. I feel like that's like a given. You have to have cleanser. But um, and then for me, I'm like it's a toss-up between vitamin A and vitamin C.

SPEAKER_02 30:49

Agree.

Krista 30:49

Um, I feel like those are so, so important. Um, but again, the hydration is so critical too, and you're getting that through your serums and your moisturizers. So it's hard to pick just three, but I agree with you that if you have to narrow it down and you can't have anything else, then cleanser, moisturizer, and sunscreen are gonna give you the core foundation of what you need.

SPEAKER_02 31:11

Yes, yes. And I do find that a lot with clients um whenever they come in, you know, to the spa and they have questions. I'm like, if you're not doing anything, let's start here. And then you know, we can always start kind of building into, you know, building that, you know, more skincare.

Krista 31:25

Yeah. Yeah. Um, so I mentioned vitamin A and vitamin C. Let's talk about those and why people use them and where they would fit into your skincare regimen.

SPEAKER_02 31:37

Yeah, so um vitamin C and vitamin A are really good active um ingredients to use. We just call them actives. Um, so vitamin C should be done in the morning. Um, so vitamin C is a water-soluble vitamin. So what that means is that um our our body doesn't store it, so we need that. Um, so using vitamin C if you're gonna do it, you want to do it every day to make sure that's effective and you know producing change in your skin that you're wanting. Um, if you're only doing it every once in a while, it's probably not doing too much. Um but vitamin C is very important, antioxidant, it helps with oxidative stress that comes from the sun, um, which causes you know sagging and premature aging and fine lines and wrinkles, pigmentation in the skin. Um so vitamin C is very, very important. Um, so that should be done in the morning. Um, and I do know a lot of people that put their vitamin C and they like rub it together in their hands like this. Um and vitamin C is a very unstable molecule, so you actually don't want to do that. So you just want to like kind of puddle it in your hand and then press it into the skin. Um, and that one I typically do right after cleansing. Um, if you're going to do a toner, you can. Um, and then your vitamin C should be your first serum that you put on, um, just so that way it absorbs into the skin properly.

Krista 32:48

And the one thing I love so much about vitamin C too is that it actually enhances the effectiveness of your sunscreen. Yes. So it has that added power and benefit as well. Okay, vitamin A.

SPEAKER_02 32:59

Okay, vitamin A.

Krista 33:00

So Oh wait, one more thing on vitamin C. Yeah. So yes, always use it in the morning. It makes sense to use it in the morning because you're that's when you're gonna be going out about your day, you're gonna be in the sun, that's when you want the most protection. Yes. So using the C the vitamin C definitely under your sunscreen, important. Um, but vitamin A is another story. So let's talk about that.

Moisturizer And Eye Cream Reality Check

SPEAKER_02 33:20

Yes. So vitamin A, we should not be using um in the morning at all because um we don't want it to be in the sun when we have vitamin A on our skin. Um, vitamin A is um part of the retinoid family. Um, so there's different forms of it. Uh, there's many. Um the one that we have at the spa that's my favorite is our advanced A serum through Arcana. It's actually a retinol with an A at the end. Um so retinol is basically it is like a step closer um to a um what our body naturally accepts versus retinol, the retinal retinal is like naturally closer. Um so that one's actually 11 times more effective than a retinol serum, the retinal retinal is.

Krista 34:02

And then just for everybody out there, so the different forms you'll hear things like retinol, retinoic acid, um retinoid, retin A, tretinoin. Exactly. There's like a bunch of them. A lot of the ones I just mentioned are typically prescriptive strength. But to Kaylee's point, you can have this beautiful, all natural, clean product that is gonna work even more effectively in the skin and not make your skin so sensitive and disrupt like some of those prescriptive products are super irritating, super disruptive to the skin, um can cause lots of shedding and peeling, um, sometimes burning.

SPEAKER_02 34:42

And what do you say? No, it can, it can be scary, and I feel like that's like um why a lot of people are worried about using it sometimes, you know. I'll I'll because I've heard some, you know, some bad stories. I'm sure you do. Um so just making sure that you're using a product that is safe, infective, and you know, and good for your skin. Um, I will say the retinoic acid is what our body has to actually turn that retinoid in to be able to naturally like accept it. So the closer that we can get to that, which is like the retinal, um, is best. So yeah. And then we do have some retinol alternatives at the spa too um through eminence, which are a really great alternative if your skin, you know, can't handle you know that retinol, um, or if you're you know going through like pregnancy or breastfeeding, um, you know, it's typically not uh recommended to use that, you know, during those times. So you're like, but I I need something, I still don't want to age, I want to look good. So um, those retinal alternatives are you know another thing that I've leaned on the last few years.

Krista 35:36

So like we have the niacinamide and niacinamide and bucuchial moisturizer would be one that you would recommend.

SPEAKER_02 35:42

Yep, that's a great one. We also have um the bamboo firming fluid through um Eminence that has their natural retinol alternative in that I like a lot too. Um helps to firm and tighten the skin, fine lines and wrinkles, all the good stuff.

Krista 35:53

Um and I think honestly, I think vitamin A is that one that's like the natural Botox. Maybe not the natural Botox, but the natural anti-ager. Yes. You know, it's gonna be the one that's gonna help turn over all of those dead skin cells, help keep your skin looking youthful, help prevent wrinkling. Um, anything else I'm missing? No, I think no, I didn't think you missed a B. Okay, good. Um, and then also there are some vitamin C's, going back to vitamin C that can be used at night as well.

SPEAKER_02 36:26

Yes. Right? Um Arcana is the one that you're thinking of, the night worker. Yes. Um arcana has a great, it's a repair to vitamin C that is supposed to be used at night, um typically about twice a week, um, just to help repair sun damage. Um so I always say like that's probably the one exception to the rule. Yes, that um that one you do use at night.

The Three Non-Negotiable Products

Krista 36:45

I love that one. I also use that one too. Um, and one, it smells amazing, but I don't know why the next day my skin always looks so glowy after the night that I use night worker. Um, and I think you do the same kind of routine as I do. Like one night I'll after I cleanse and wash my face, I'll use vitamin A, my advanced A serum. And then I follow that with my moisturizer. And then the next night I'll use um pumpkin enzyme, um, which is also another form of vitamin A. Yes. And then I'll use my moisturizer. And then the third night, I'll use my vitamin C night worker with moisturizer, and then the fourth night I'll use um an exfoliator that that kind of works and exfoliates overnight called gentle solution. And then I follow that with moisturizer. So I'm rotating these active products and really only using them once every four or five days through the week.

SPEAKER_03 37:41

Yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:42

So that's um, I think a lot of people are known about like they call it skin cycling. Um, so skin cycling is um, you know, where we're doing exactly what you're doing. Uh of course you're doing it the right way. Okay.

Krista 37:57

Um, but before okay, so before we jump into exfoliators, because I think people have a lot of questions around that too, what about vitamin E and niacinamide? Tell us a little bit about those and where those fit in.

SPEAKER_02 38:06

Yeah, so um vitamin E helps to um like hold water into the skin, um, which is really helpful. Um and niacinamide um is great for just about anybody. So niacinamide, you can use it twice a day. Um, you can use it on sensitive skin. Um, it also helps to pull water into the skin, um, but it's really great to help like minimize pores. Um, it's great for reducing redness in the skin, it helps to brighten the complexion. Um, niacinamide pairs very well with vitamin C and vitamin A. Um, so like the Pacutial niacinamide moisturize you mentioned earlier, like that's something that you could totally use in the morning and the night

Vitamin C Placement And Common Mistakes

SPEAKER_02 38:40

if you wanted to kind of simplify your routine and not do like a night cream. Um, that's a great one because it gives you kind of all your actives. Um, so you can use those at the same time.

Krista 38:48

And also niacinamide can help with acne too, right? Not not like a benzoyl peroxide, which is not something that we recommend. Correct. Because it strips the skin and um it kind of kills your microbiome. Yeah, it's very harsh. Yeah, super harsh on the skin, even though we know there's whole skincare systems for acne that are built completely around benzoyl peroxide, right?

SPEAKER_02 39:11

Yes, and benzoyl peroxide is like very drying for the skin. Um, it's something I I touch skin a lot. And that probably sounds weird, but um, I as soon as like I do my first cleanse on clients, you know, and I get my hands on and they're telling me what they're using, I'm like, yep, I can feel that, you know, like I can feel the dryness here. I can tell you're using this and you're probably using it too much. And um, yeah, benzol peroxide is definitely one of those ones that are. Their texture, like their texture.

Krista 39:37

It's really compromised. Um, so niacinamide though, can help with decreasing inflammation, it can help normalize your oil production, improve your barrier function. Um, and for people with mild acne, sometimes this is enough to just treat their mild acne, but definitely for people with more severe acne, it can be a nice help as well.

SPEAKER_02 39:57

Yes, it's also even good too if you just have like some like poor, like pore congestion. Most people have, you know, pore congestion like around our nose and chin, kind of that T-zone area. So it just kind of helps to um like balance out that oil production and you know help to like hopefully tighten some pores is the idea around.

Krista 40:12

Yeah, and not and not dry the skin out like soil peroxide. Awesome. And it's also gonna help, like you said, regulate your sebum production so that your oil production is back into a normal balance. Yes. Um and not in that crazy cycle that we often see, you know, a lot of people with acne going into, they put the drying products on and then their skin starts getting really oily because it's trying to produce a lot of oil. So this is like a really great balancer for them. Would you agree?

SPEAKER_02 40:36

Oh, yeah, absolutely. And that's why, again, not to go back that much moisturizer. I just I like it a lot, but it's like got that gel base in it too. Um, you know, and that's where the difference like in skin types and skincare comes in. Um, you know, if you're using like a really heavy, like thick moisturizer and you have oily skin, you're not going to like it. Yeah. Um, because it's gonna feel too thick and heavy and you already have that oil, so you don't need it. Um, so if you have drier skin, like that thicker moisturizer is probably gonna be, you know, really good for you and something you're gonna like the feel of on your skin. Um, but if you have like you know more oily acne-prone skin, you're gonna want more of kind of like that, you know, lightweight gel-based moisturizer.

Krista 41:10

That actually makes me think about cleansers again. So you kind of touched on this a little bit, but does it matter what type of cleanser you use based on how your skin is? Like if your skin is really dry versus really oily or just kind of aging and not so supple, like does it matter what cleanser you use?

SPEAKER_02 41:26

It does. So I will say um more drier skin types is typically um when I recommend, you know, that kind of like creamier based cleanser. Um, and then whenever you have like that more kind of like oily, um, you know, acne prone or congested skin, um, you'll typically want kind of one that lathers a little bit more, um, you know, has like different ingredients in it. Like we've got some of

Vitamin A Retinoids And Clean Alternatives

SPEAKER_02 41:45

like lactic acid to try and help, you know, break up that skin. Um, so it does matter. However, I will say we do have options for everybody. Um, like our kombucha one can really be used on anybody. Um, so if you don't like like a creamy cleanser, that kombucha is such a great option because you get that foam that you feel that you need, you know, to feel nice and clean, even though you are clean with the creamy one, I promise. Um but the kombucha is like that really good balance because it doesn't strip the skin, um, still feels you know, still feels nice and soft after you cleanse, um, but you get the bubbles.

Krista 42:13

And like that stone crop cleansing oil, you can use that on oily or dry or any skin type. That one is all skin types, yes. Yeah, great. Um, okay, so now we know about niacinamide. We know about what I would call the vitamin A's, vitamin A, vitamin C, vitamin E. Um. So let's talk about exfoliation.

SPEAKER_04 42:32

Okay.

Krista 42:32

Um, there's so many different kinds of exfoliation out there. Yes. Um, I think it gets very confusing. Um, I think a lot of people overexfoliate and don't know that they're overexfoliating or don't ever exfoliate and don't understand why they're getting breakouts and different things on their on their skin. So let's talk about that.

SPEAKER_02 42:51

Yeah, um, exactly. And I was that's whenever you said overexfoliate, I'm like, there's so many clients I have that don't even like know about exfoliation, which is okay. Like you don't, you know, you can't know something until you know it. Um exfoliation will I will say that's probably the um after we get our basic kind of core, you know, cleanser, moisturizer, sunscreen in um when we're looking to start something, um, my next go-to is always exfoliation. Um, it changes your skin so much. You have to think, you know, we we build up so much like dirt and bacteria and dead skin. Like if you're using a vitamin A, it you know, it forces that cell turnover in the skin, but also where's that dead skin going? Right. It's just like sitting on top, like a layer. So right.

Krista 43:31

So is it gonna just so people know, if you're using the vitamin A, it's going deep into the layers of your skin. It's helping to shed those dead skin cells, but where do they go? Like, do they do they just stay under your skin and then they build up and you start getting white bumps on your skin? Like what happens?

SPEAKER_02 43:50

Yeah, no, so um uh that's a great uh great question. So with vitamin A, you know, it's forcing that cell turnover um for aging. Um, but whenever we're doing that, we're producing. More cells, so it's just gonna kind of create a barrier and they actually kind of stick together and they create proteins like glue and they'll just like kind of sit on top of the skin. Um, so a lot of times I'll have clients say, My skin feels so dry, and I'm like, it's just dead skin, like we can get it off, you know. Like, do you exfoliate at home? And um, a lot of times they don't, which um that's definitely the next thing that I'm gonna add to your routine um would be that exfoliation. So there's different types for the main ones, especially for home, are gonna be your chemical and your physical exfoliation. Um, so when we get into that, physical is gonna be more of like a gommage, so more of kind of like that scrub that you're using, um, or there's other, you know, like pads and stuff that people will use. Um, so that one's gonna help to remove kind of like that dry dead skin. Um, and it does work well, but it works best whenever you use both together. Um, so chemical exfoliation, there's gonna be a combination of typically different acids, so like AHAs and BHAs. Um, our AHAs they're called alpha hydroxy acids and beta-hydroxy acids are the Bs. Um so AHAs are typically best for just about anyone, um, unless you're super sensitive, you could go to like a PHA, which is fine. Um, but polyhydroxy acids. Sorry.

Krista 45:10

It's a more mild um acid type PL. Yes. Yes. More mild than the AHAs or the BHAs.

SPEAKER_02 45:17

Yes. So, and in terms of that, yes, so it'd go AHA is your most mild, um, or sorry, PHA is your most mild, AHA, and then the BHAs. Um, so the chemical exfoliation at home um typically is either going to be a serum or a pad. Um, my favorite's the general solution through Arcana. Um, they have that, or the solution pads, which are a little stronger. Um, so those have a mix typically of like different like glycolic, lactic acids in there, um, just to help kind of break up that dead skin.

Krista 45:42

Um so the pads are cool because they have that little bit of physical exfoliation, but then also have the chemical exfoliation as well because it has the peel in it and or the AHA or the BHA mess in with it.

SPEAKER_02 45:54

Yeah, so those are definitely like those are my go-to. So on exfoliation nights, um, I will typically do the general or the solution pad and write that on. Um, and so that way you kind of get those acids and they work overnight. So that's why I like to do that. Um, so that way it kind of eats up dead skin, dirt bacteria, kind of really gets in there. Um, so that's gonna help with like poor congestion, it's gonna help smooth out texture, even your complexion. Um, and then typically the morning after is whenever you want to do that physical exfoliant. Um, so that's where through Arcana it looks more like they have um their gommages, um, or eminence has like their stone crop physifoliant, which is my favorite because it like fizzes up and max and it just like it. You guys all know that one. Yeah, we do.

Krista 46:36

And there's different variations of the physical exfoliation too. So the gommages and the physifoliant that you're talking about are very different

Niacinamide Vitamin E And Acne Support

Krista 46:45

textures.

SPEAKER_02 46:45

Yes, they are. Um, yeah, um so there's you know, there's more mild, um, and then there's definitely, you know, I don't want to say harsh ones, but you know, ones that kind of remove a little bit more of that dead skin. Um, and it really just depends on your skin type. Like some people do need that, you know, kind of like heavier, you know, physical exfoliant um to get rid of like their dead skin buildup. And some people are a little bit more sensitive and you know don't produce that much or less oily, and you know, they don't need you know something that heavy.

Krista 47:11

And the crystals, so with the physifoliant, it's like a very fine powder. And you can mix it with water or mix it in with your cleanser. Yep. Um, you can barely really feel it. I feel like when you put it on your face, you feel a little bit of the exfoliation happening. And then when you go to like more of a gommage, it's a larger crystal. Yes. And so it does feel a little more, I don't know if aggressive is the right word. Right. Feel it more on the face. Um, and I the thing I like about the products that we use too is that they there's actually a science behind the crystals in the exfoliators.

SPEAKER_03 47:45

Yes.

Krista 47:46

So they're making sure that they don't have rough, sharp edges where they can, you can get like micro tears and microcuts in your skin. Exactly. And so when you go back to looking at like drugstore brands versus what are you really getting and what's happening to your skin?

SPEAKER_02 48:02

Yes. So my head goes to, I know everyone, the apricot scrub, I think everybody knows that that's probably not the best product to use. Um, and the reason being um is just those pieces, they're like the like the pit of it that are just like crushed and ground up, and they're literally like any size, and you're scrubbing that on your skin, so you're creating recrystal the micro-tears in your skin, you know.

Krista 48:25

And what and what happens when you have micro-tears in the skin?

SPEAKER_02 48:29

Um, I mean, it affects your skin barrier. So our skin barrier is what protects us. Um, you know, that protects us from environmental damage and stressors and you know, dirt, pollution, like all that kind of stuff. Um, and whenever you know our skin barrier is not intact. It can cause scarring. It can cause scarring, yeah.

Krista 48:45

Yeah, interesting. Okay, so then now let's talk about peels because now we've got our exfoliators that we're using at home. We've got our my AHA, BHAs, PHAs are like a mild form of a peel. Um, but then there's stronger peels that people can sometimes buy over the counter, sometimes buy in spa, and also get in through professional grade facials.

SPEAKER_02 49:10

Yes. So um typically at home, I feel like the appeals more, you know, or the acids typically aren't above like a 10% in that kind of form. Um, but most of the time, whenever you're getting like exfoliation, it's normally gonna be between like that three and five percent range is what I typically see. Um and then whenever you come in spa for treatment, you know, that's where we're getting, we can go up to 30%, um, which is not something that you typically want to do at home. Um, you know, just to have a little bit more education behind it and make sure, you know, that the skin can handle it and is prepared for it. Um, and you know, just really getting that like you know, professional evaluation on your skin. Um, I would say I'd save those ones for, you know, in spa.

Krista 49:48

And then there's even more aggressive peels that can be done in like a dermatology office or a medical-based med spa where they have physician oversight. And in my personal opinion, I'd love to know your opinion on this. Um, I don't

Exfoliation Without Wrecking Your Barrier

Krista 50:05

know that doing something that disruptive to your skin is ever really necessary. Um, I know there's huge crazes over the vampire facial and you know, all these other crazy facials that are probably up to 50 or 60 percent um acid facials, and people are coming out um very irritated. Sometimes the downtime is a few days. Um, and sometimes afterwards, what we've seen is that it can actually cause scarring, it can actually cause long-term damage. Yeah, it it can.

SPEAKER_02 50:37

And it's it's very hard to say because you know, I know that there's people that have, you know, deeper issues that they're wanting to correct. And it's you know, we're so self-conscious about our skin. I mean, that's the first thing that you know you see and whenever you meet somebody is if they have acne or if they have scarring, you know, women wear makeup to cover that up. Um, so it's a really hard kind of you know topic to be like, well, don't do this, you know, it's not, and you know, there's definitely could we do something better? Sure. Um, but I mean I do understand if you have like that kind of like deeper like pitting and acne scarring or you know, like deeper fine lines and wrinkles, I think that's more where you know people go to kind of seek those treatments. Um, not that we can't, you know, help that with you know more natural products, um, but I do see that kind of push more towards that. Um, we of course don't do that at the spot.

Krista 51:25

Well, and I think I think the important message, at least for me, is that there's a place, I think, for all of these things. I think there's a place for Botox and filler, I think there's a place for these more aggressive facials like you just mentioned. I think the thing is is really doing your homework, understanding who's providing them, making sure that they know what they're doing and that you're doing them for the right reasons. Exactly. Um to your point, I think that we can achieve many, if not all, of the same results. But because we do it in a natural way, it does take longer. It does. And you know, we are in a society of instant gratification and we want everything right now. And if that's you, then what we do at Panacea for skincare might not be the right fit for you. Exactly. Um, but if you're willing to do, you know, you want to do more of an all-natural approach and you're willing to put that kind of time and consistency into your skincare routine, then we would be a great fit for you. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 52:24

Yeah, and that's and going back to that, it's more where you know, I've heard a lot of clients that are really like, well, I've had a consultation for this or that. And I look at their skin, I'm like, but you don't like need it, you know, like I don't think you need it. Your skin looks great. Like there, you know, there's a couple things you could add in, you know, to your home routine, and you could start doing, you know, regular treatments. Um, you know, I have a lot of clients that like to come in, and that's another, I guess, probably topic, but like how often should you be getting spa treatments done and you know, like facial treatments. What do you think? So uh and and again, that's where it comes into budget. I mean, everybody has their own, you know, like their own beauty budget. Like, what are you able to spend on that kind of thing? Um, and also time too. Um, so you know, I do have clients that like to come in and see me every month. Um, there's clients that, you know, every quarter is a little bit more, you know, suitable for their time and their budget. And I really think that that's you know, kind of like that great sweet spot. Um, if you're coming once a year, you know, that's more of a good, you know, relaxing treatment. Um, I don't think you're going to be getting as many results if you're not, you know, getting treatments done, you know, as often. Um but if you're kind of trying to find that good middle ground and you know just get started um once a quarter is really great, in my opinion.

Krista 53:34

What about the balance between home skincare and um spa grade skincare? You just talked about the frequency, but why is it if you really want to see really good results, why can't I just come in for one facial and have you tell me everything I need to do at home and that can be enough for what I need to do?

SPEAKER_02 53:55

Yeah, well, so the other thing about this too is that you know, we have access, you know, we have professional like back bar. So we have access to you know higher levels and you know more like potent ingredients kind of thing. So, you know, we're at home, maybe you could do a 5% AHA peel, but if you come the spa, I can do a 25% on you. And like let's talk about the difference because it just sounds, you know, like a number like, oh bigger's better. Um and you know, the main difference that you're seeing in skin whenever we're using, you know, like larger percentages and acids is like the level that it's gonna penetrate into your skin and you know, kind of that change that it's gonna cause. Um, so it really makes a big difference.

Krista 54:30

So we just talked about though those more med spa grade facials that are doing, you know, 50-60% acids versus ours being 25 to 30 percent. To be clear, we are not a med spa, and because we're not a med spa within our scope of practice as aestheticians, we cannot go past 30%. And nor do we feel like we need to go past 30%. Correct. But why would someone choose a, you know, maybe just like an activator or a heavier exfoliator, or maybe even like a 5% peel versus doing like a 25

Peels At Home Versus In The Spa

Krista 55:05

or 30% peel? And why is that different from those 50 and 60% peels? So whenever you That's a really hard question.

SPEAKER_02 55:13

That's a good question. So um, whenever you get into it, there's I guess like a time and a place and things that our skin, you know, should tolerate and can tolerate. Um, where on like a daily basis, like we don't want to put like a 25%, you know, peel on our skin every you know week or every couple nights. That's not it's gonna wreck your skin barrier. Um but you know, being able to kind of reset and refresh the skin is really important, I think. Um so if we use those kind of you know more like lower um like level ones at home, I think that's really helpful. Um but definitely being able to come in, like I said, even if it's like once a quarter, you know, every two or three months is really great just to get that, you know, like deeper level of penetration into your skin, um, just to kind of really see that change. Um, it helps a lot. But then where you go to the 50 to 60, it's kind of like is too much of a good thing, a bad thing. Um, and that's kind of where I go to it in my head, where okay, we we can overdo things. Yeah.

Krista 56:07

And isn't isn't the belief that you know a 25 to a 30% is gonna help with deeper product penetration? Exactly. It's gonna help with better cell turnover, but it's not penetrating so deep into the skin that it's causing actual physical damage to the skin. And and that is the belief with with higher grade peels, is that we need to create injury to the skin so that the body then sends an immune response to then repair that and boost the collagen, boost the elastin, all of those things. But we can do that without creating that injury to the skin and disrupting the natural skin barrier with a 25 to 30 percent peel. Exactly. Yes, yeah, okay. Um, so peels can be a little bit complicated. Yes, they are. Um so that's why having someone like you to help regulate that for them and help evaluate their skin to see when it's an appropriate time to do it is so valuable. Oh, yeah. And I also think, you know, you all know that we have this specialty focus in oncology therapeutics, and we have a client population that can tend to have very sensitive skin, um, very thin skin, and sometimes don't know what to do from a skincare perspective. And this is that's one perfect example of where an expert like Kaylee can really provide some valuable advice. Um, and also when you're coming into a spa like ours, knowing that you have people that are trained in this area to know and understand what the right things are to put on the skin so that we're not creating any damage.

SPEAKER_02 57:48

Oh, yeah. And that that was actually that was a really big draw for me whenever I was like reading through like the job description and um, you know, I was like, wow, they focus on that. I was like, I didn't like that's not something that's talked about, honestly. Like I don't really, you know, a lot of times whenever I mean it's very unfortunate when people are going through, you know, like a cancer diagnosis and treatment. Like the one of their favorite things, you know, if it's to go get a massage or go get a facial, like a lot of times they get turned like away, which is so like sad to think. I think you actually told us about a story you had a man that you know he used to go get massages like every month, and like then he had unfortunately like you know, started going through cancer treatment, and his massage therapist was like, Oh, like I won't work on you anymore, even though she'd been working on him for years, suddenly he has a cancer diagnosis, and she's like, No, yeah, so and and it's out of fear, it's not out of um uh oh anything that she wanted to do to hurt the client, or you know, I'm sure she really wanted to help him, but she just didn't have the knowledge to do it.

Krista 58:47

And so um what you guys learn at the spa through your oncology care training is really important and not just for people who have had a cancer diagnosis. I mean, it's for all different types of significant health conditions, yes. Um people with diabetes and you know, cardiovascular issues and knowing how to manage the different things that they're going through so that we're modifying our services appropriately to be able to take care of those conditions.

SPEAKER_02 59:13

Oh, yeah, it's so important, and that's why um a lot of times I will hear it's just so hard because there's so many things out there, and how do I know if this is working or how do I know if this, you know, this person tells me this, and I go to Ulta and the girl that works there says this, and you know, there there's a lot of different things. So, you know, just really making sure that you find someone that you trust that, you know, has like the good knowledge base and information, I just think is so important.

Krista 59:36

Um, let's go back to exfoliators for just a second. Yeah. What do you say to people who are like, every time I exfoliate, it just dries my skin out so much. So I really don't use them very often.

SPEAKER_02 59:46

You're probably not using the right one if that's what's happening, because that's not what an exfoliator should do for your skin. Um, you know, and that's where we kind of get into those different acids. You know, if you're using a BHA, a BHA is gonna, you know, that penetrates the furthest that has a very small molecule that's typically our salicylic acid. Um, and that's more, you know, suggested for you know that acne-prone, oily, congested skin. If you are dry, mature, aging skin and you're using salicylic acid, well, yeah, it's gonna make your skin really dry. It's not meant for your skin type. Um, so again, just kind of getting that, you know, professional advice is you know really helpful, I think, to building, you know, a good routine where, hey, you know, I think actually an AHA is gonna work better for you. Um, or if you have rosacea and you have active rosacea and you're using a physical exfoliant, it's not recommended, it's actually contraindicated for it. So if you're you know using a scrub on your very sensitive rosacea skin, it's gonna, you know, do damage, unfortunately. So that's where you want to lean into maybe more doing like a PHA. Um, like our pineapple tonique through eminence um is one of my favorites. It has I just happened to.

Krista 1:00:53

And it smells so amazing. It's so good. Like so many of our products are like smell so good. Like we just want to eat them.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:59

But I mean, obviously, we don't want you to do that, but it literally feels like it like smells like you just put like fresh pineapple on your face. That's my favorite. But so the like pineapple tonique has bromaline

Oncology-Trained Care And Trusting Pros

SPEAKER_02 1:01:10

in it, which is an enzyme that occurs naturally in pineapple, and it helps to um basically like digest the like the proteins um that help to create those bonds that hold you know like that dead skin together. Um, and then it also has the pH of the polyhydroxy acid, which is like very gentle sensitive. Um, so maybe that it would be a better option. So you just might not be using the right one.

Krista 1:01:31

Could that be um because I use my pineapple tonique every day? Um it does not dry my skin out. Is that could that be an okay alternative if I find that gommages and other things are drying my skin out? Like, is that enough exfoliation for me? It depends on again, it depends on your skin type.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:47

Um, and you know, that might be where that's good for you daily, but you know, like for my skin, like I work best if um, you know, I exfoliate my skin twice a week. Some people need once a week, some people need three times. So, really just kind of you know, getting someone to help under skin understand your skin a little bit better and you know can kind of look at it from a different perspective is really helpful. Um, you know, for some people, you know, that might be enough if they're very sensitive and they really can't handle much. Um, you know, that at least helps kind of you know get into their pores a little bit more, you know, helps kind of create that process. So um it really just depends.

Krista 1:02:19

I use um so I use that every day, and then my every like four to five day routine in the evening, I'll do the gentle solution at night, and then sometimes I do the gommage the next day, sometimes I don't, because I do tend to find that the gommage does make me feel dehydrated and a little more dry. Um but the cool thing I like about that combo, and you kind of got into this earlier, is that that nighttime exfoliator is getting deep into the layers of skin. I always compare it to like Pac-Men. Yes, you do. Like little Pacmen that get in there and they munch up like all the bad stuff and chew it all up and get it ready to um evacuate the skin, but then you need that exfoliator to then pull all of that out and get rid of it. Exactly. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:06

Yeah, so yeah, that that like basically that acid, that chemical exfoliation is doing its job. And then the morning after we want to basically scrub up all that dry dead skin that it kind of like eats up for you. So um, but yeah, to your point, if you know the gommage that you're using um is you know might kind of makes your skin feel like too like rough after or too dry, um, you could limit you know the usage of it. It also could be something where you use like a little bit more of you know that physifoliant words, you know, not as um again, not

Why Exfoliation Might Dry You Out

SPEAKER_02 1:03:35

aggressive, but you know, where it's uh a little bit less, I guess, for the skin.

Krista 1:03:39

Well, and I guess I am also then using my pineapple tonique afterwards. So maybe the combination of doing the gommage and then following it by the pineapple tonique is maybe just a little too much. It could be. So good. Okay, I learned something today. Thank you, Kaylee. You're welcome. Okay, so now I want to talk about um the order that we should use all these products that we've talked about all this awesome stuff, and there's so many things that you can use. And if I wanted to use all of the things we talked about, yeah. Um, I have the budget, I you know want to do more than just a couple two or three things in my skincare routine. Okay. How should I apply all of these? Like build that beefy routine. Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:24

Okay, so um, let's say, well, there's gonna be morning and night, so let's start with morning. Um, so morning time, um, you can double cleanse if you like. Um, like I said, I personally just do my you know single cleanser in the morning. Um, and then you're gonna follow it up with either like a toner or a tonique or um Eminence has essences too. Um kind of a lot to get into, but um, they're going to help kind of rebalance the skin's natural pH. Um they can also help remove, you know, if you're using like a toner or a pad, it helps to remove um anything that your cleanser didn't get up. Um and then after there, um vitamin C is going to be next. Um, so my easiest way to remember it is um, you know, we cleanse tone. After that, we want to apply our skincare in the order of thinnest to thickest, so that way it properly absorbs into the skin. Um so vitamin C is a, you know, it's like water basically. It's very, very thin serum. Um so that one's gonna go on first. Um, and typically it's best if you wait like 20 to 30 seconds if you can before applying all of your products. So that way, whenever they're going into the skin, they have time to actually kind of drop down and absorb, and they're not just like mixing. Honestly, the best way to do it is just kind of doing thinnest to thickest. Um, so whenever we're working into that, the vitamin C is gonna go on first. Um, and then if you're using like a hyaluronic acid, that's really good. Hyaluronic acid helps pull water molecules down into the skin. Um, so and you want to do that on either damp skin or mix a little bit of water with your hyaluronic acid. Um, reason being is the molecule needs to expand and it needs that water to drop down into the skin and to actually expand to give you that hydration. So if you're not using water with it, you're

The Correct Order To Apply Products

SPEAKER_02 1:06:00

Just wasting your hyaluronic acid.

Krista 1:06:02

And also the hyaluronic acid, because it carries up to 1,000 times its weight and water into the skin. If you don't mix it with a mist or water or something, it's actually going to pull water out of your skin. Um because it's it's basically like a sponge. So you have to give it something to take into the skin, otherwise, it's gonna pull moisture and hydration out of your skin. Yes. So you don't want that. But hyaluronic acid is awesome.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:31

It is, yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:33

Yeah, so um, and then after your hyaluronic acid, um, depending on what you're doing, if you're Krista, you're putting on a couple more serums. Um, but I mean, honestly, that's really kind of great routine in the morning. Um, you know, your vitamin C hyaluronic acid. Um, and then if you want to use some niacinamide, you can. Um, my go-to would be like the bucuchiol niacinamide moisturizer after that. So that way you're getting your niacinamide. The bucuriol is a natural retinal alternative, so you're kind of getting that anti-aging in there too. Um but wait, I thought you said we have to use our vitamin A at night. It's not a vitamin, it's a retinal alternative. Okay. So yeah, retin alternatives, um, they they have a little bit of a different role with them. Yes. Um, they're not reactive to the sun, so um, which is why. Um, but yeah, so then you would do your moisturizer. Oh, I forgot eye cream. We need eye cream. Yeah. Um so eye cream, I typically like to um apply that after I do my serums before my moisturizer. Um, so I'll do my serums, um, I'll put my eye cream, and eye cream should go around the eyes like an up to so that way we're making sure we're getting in um all the areas.

Krista 1:07:35

Um and also like up here as well. So all the way around and through here. And not not just like here in here. Not just the under eye, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:48

You want to get like above like the eye too, kind of below your brow. Yeah, yeah. Um, and so then we would do our moisturizer, and then that's great.

Krista 1:07:58

Okay, cleanser, toners and essences. Yes. Then you're gonna do your active ingredients, so like your vitamin C. Then you're gonna do your um hyaluronic acid. And you're gonna do that with a mist, whether it's water or it's an essence or something like that. I use birch water, which is this one. Oh, you're almost out, yeah. Oh, I love birch water. I use that essence, and then I mix my um strawberry rhubarb hyaluronic serum with that. And um, and then after that, then you're gonna do your eye creams. Yes. And then your moisturizers and niacinamides if you're gonna use niacinamides, and then

Wrap-Up And Listener Offers

Krista 1:08:35

your sunscreen. Yes. Awesome. Oh my gosh, I love it so much. Okay. This is such an awesome conversation, and we have so many more topics to talk about, but this episode has gotten way longer than what I thought it was going to be. So if you're okay with it, I want to um end this episode here and then we'll do another episode for next week, just so that we're not overwhelming people too much. What do you think? Yeah, definitely. I think there's still like so much to talk about. There is. Okay, awesome. So if you enjoyed this conversation and you've found it helpful, please definitely share it with all of your friends. Definitely follow the show by um following us on social, leaving us a review, and of course, sharing this episode with everybody you know. So until next time, keep balancing serenity with fire. I'm Krista Guadeni and I'll talk with you more in our next episode. At Panacea Luxury Spa Boutique, we don't just offer traditional spa treatments. We create rituals that relax your mind, restore your health, and rejuvenate your spirit. From biohacking technologies to advanced oncology trained care, everything we do is designed to help you heal on the deepest level with clean, holistic therapies, products, and amenities that are second to none. And right now, you can experience two of my favorites our whole body LED light bud or hyperbaric oxygen therapies. And as a thank you for listening, you'll get 10% off your first session when you use the code Serenity10 at booking. What is your fan of suggest? Let us help you find it because true wellness isn't a quick fix, it's a ritual.