EP12, Mastering Plateaus: Turning Stalls into Surges with Dr. Lis Rosencrum

In this episode of "Unstoppable By Design," host Matt Terry and Dr. Lis Rosencrum from Juggernaut Fitness dive into the daunting challenge of plateaus in fitness journey. They explore the distinction between a plateau and an off day, early indicators of a plateau, and the role of mental and physical aspects in overcoming it. The discussion covers vital metrics to check, the importance of tracking training logs, and how wearables can validate feelings of being stuck. They also identify key variables like volume and intensity that can be adjusted to break a plateau. The episode debunks common myths about plateau busting and emphasizes the importance of viewing plateaus as data, not defeat. Lastly, it introduces the Unstoppable Challenge to identify and fix one training variable, setting the stage for breaking through plateaus.

00:00 Introduction to Unstoppable By Design

00:59 Defining and Identifying Plateaus

01:47 Mental and Physical Indicators of Plateaus

04:06 Analyzing Training Logs and Wearables

08:39 Adjusting Training Variables

10:11 Mini Cycles and Deload Weeks

12:33 Addressing Under Fueling and Recovery

17:22 Myth Busting Common Plateau Beliefs

21:14 Unstoppable Challenge and Conclusion

Transcript

Matt: Let's Gooooo. Welcome to Unstoppable By Design, where we talk all things fitness, mindset and what it means to truly be unstoppable inside and outside the gym. I'm Matt Terry, and today we're tackling the moment every lifter dreads, yet every Champion masters. The Plateau. Joining me is Juggernaut Fitness's own Dr.

Lis Rosencrum, Head Coach, PhD, ATC, CSCS, and the architect of countless comeback stories. Together we'll prove plateaus aren't failure, they're feedback. And with the right plan, you can turn that stall into your next surge. Grab your training log or open your notes app and let's dive in. Lis, how are you today?

Lis: I'm doing alright. How are you? 

Matt: Good, good. Welcome. 

Lis: Thanks. 

Matt: In simplest terms, what defines a plateau versus a normal off day? 

Lis: So I think we've all experienced at least an off day, right? And an off day might just be where nothing really feels right. Yeah, like you don't necessarily hurt, but it just, things aren't thing-ing the way you want them to thing.

Matt: Things aren't thing-ing. 

Lis: That's very 

technical. Um, taught me that in PhD school. You know, whereas it's it's kind of a one-off. Right. Our plateau, you know, we really kind of define once you've hit a lot of those days. Either in succession or dang close to each other, you know, where those off days really start to outnumber.

The days where you're feeling like you're on and you're really making some progress towards your goals, 

Matt: what early indicators, physical or mental tip you off that progress has truly stalled? 

Lis: I think from a mental standpoint the idea that you don't want to train, you know, I think if you are.

Someone who, okay. Regardless of how you feel about what you have programmed, I think most of us who train regularly and have trained for a long time want to and need to and feel like it's part of who they are as a human being. Right? And so you've got that habit established, and if you're going to the gym and you're dreading regularly your training session, that's I think a good mental indicator that like something.

Something's going on there. And then from a physical standpoint again, if you are having trouble recovering or you're going in and you're having, you know, things just feel stickier than they normally do. You know, in terms of like how your body feels when you're entering or exiting your bout of exercise, I think is really important to tune in on.

Matt: I mean, how long should numbers stagnate before we label it a plateau? 

Lis: I think a true plateau. We're talking like weeks. You know, like I think it, it's easier to kind of enter a have a couple of off days and kind of freak out about it, especially if you're really training towards some goals, right.

That said, we're human beings, right? And so a, few days a week even, or two. Is gonna happen, you know, especially if you live a whole human life outside of the gym, which most of us do. Mm-hmm. I don't know anybody in my immediate life who has the. Benefit of being a professional athlete and this being the only thing that they do.

No. Right. Okay. Um, so, uh, you know, you've got a lot of other things to, to factor in and you need to give yourself grace for those before freaking out about it being a plateau. I think once we get through those like few weeks, even a month, like that's when we can start to kind of, not start, but think about it more in the range of plateau versus.

Having, having some tough times. 

Matt: Yeah. So hang in there if yes, if it's just a couple days or maybe a week or so. What three metrics do you check first when a client says, I'm stuck 

Lis: I first and foremost want to look at their programming. If I'm not doing it, I wanna see what their programming looks like.

You know, if it's our members in class or it's my, any of my clients that I'm working with, like I know what their programming is, so I know where they should be. If that is all in line with, from like a training perspective, then the next thing is looking at their nutrition, looking at their recovery.

How are they sleeping? What's their, you know, overall life stress level. You know, all of that stuff is incredibly important. When we're thinking we might be stuck. 

Matt: Yeah, training log audits. What patterns usually jump off the page? 

Lis: So with this one, I think depending on what you're logging if it's just kind of numbers, percentages, et cetera, it might be tough to really read into much of that in regard to plateaus.

Right. Whereas if you have, and this is one of the things that I really advocate for, is when you're training, taking some notes of how it felt, right? Mm-hmm. Because you can hit your percentages. As an example, I had a workout recently where I had to do a whole heck of a lot of squats at 75% of my back squat.

And, it didn't go great. I did it so I could, you know, if I only logged that I, I did it, you know, and I hit my percentages, then all intents and purposes, that looks okay. Right? But my note next to it saying this felt terrible, and I did this over eight sets instead of three or four, um, is you know, important information to look at over time.

If I have a number. Of sessions like that, right? Yeah. So, so really looking at trends, you know, I wanna see how people are feeling trend wise and if they're actually able to consistently hit what they're programmed for. 

Matt: So we covered this last week in a previous episode, talking about wearables mm-hmm.

And trackable apps. But looking at it for today and how it relates to plateaus, how can wearables, you know, tracking things like HRV sleep scores. Validate or debunk the plateau feeling. 

Lis: So I think if you especially have a kind of wealth of your own data, they, it can be incredibly meaningful. If you have, because all of these data points, sleep scores, HRV resting heart rate, resting respiration rate, skin temperature, all of those things that a lot of our wearables will track are so.

Individual. And it's incredibly important to keep that in mind. 'cause I think you know, even with the human physiology understanding I have, when I first got my whoop, 'cause I'm a whoop user. Mm-hmm. There's a billion other wearables out there that are great. I know you talked, you had a podcast about wearables, but when I first got it, I felt like I was kind of tethered to like.

Oh, my whoop is telling me that I'm recovered and I need to train hard. And it's like, and it's like, okay it's one piece of data, right? And so, when I first started out, like that wasn't nearly as meaningful. Right? Now I understand looking at my whoop data along with how I'm actually feeling in my physical body.

Or right? I know because I've been using it now for like four years, what that actually means for me. 

Matt: Right. So like it, the app or the, the wearable. Yep. We'll say we both use Whoop. If it's telling you you gotta take a rest day, but you feel like a hundred bucks, then maybe we just go right into training.

I think so last week in the episode I talked about if you're in the kitchen and the pan's hot, you mind as well cook. 

Lis: Yeah. Right. 

Matt: Yeah. So it's it's just something used to support how you're feeling and so, yep. On the other end, if it's telling you, Hey, you need a rest day or recovery day, and you feel like you need a rest and recovery day.

Yep. I think it's a good idea to listen Yeah. To both your body. Absolutely. 

Lis: Well, and even so, like yesterday I had like two nights in a row where I did not get the sleep that I normally prioritize for a variety of reasons. I didn't get that sleep. And yesterday I felt it. Whoop told me that I was, I had a different story going on, but I was like, I need to, I need to listen to what my body is telling me.

And so I adjusted what, how I trained, you know? That's awesome. 

Matt: Alright, so looking at volume, intensity, and frequency, which variable do you tweak first and why? 

Lis: So, yes. I think again, it kind of depends on the individual, right? And a lot of times for, I'm going to use my clients for example, they're on a set frequency, so I'm not going to, I've got people on two days a week, or I've got people on three days a week.

They might be doing some other stuff on their own as well. So we might address that from a coaching standpoint. Right. But for the most part, like. At least the people I'm training are on a set membership, right? Mm-hmm. And so the frequency piece is kind of whatever. Yeah. Yeah. The volume and intensity, we can definitely more, we can adjust that with more agility, right?

And so, think depending on, you know, the way you're feeling, the data that you have in terms of like what might help you decide how you're gonna train that day. What those pieces of information are telling you would lead you to decide volume or intensity in terms of adjusting. 

Matt: Awesome. So it's not one over the other.

You're looking at everything. Yeah. And kind of figuring it out. Yeah. 

Lis: Yeah. Because like, going back to like how I, yesterday for example, how I adjusted, I adjusted both volume and intensity because I literally just took the high intensity piece out of my training and I focused on my more accessory and strength and, 'cause that's what I felt like.

My body could handle, you know? Yeah.

Matt: Yeah. Can you give an example of a micro cycle change that reignited strength gains? 

Lis: Yeah. So I think one of the cool examples that we see in our class programming is that in our fitness classes, we have our long 10 week cycles, right?

But then we have these kind of mini cycles for, specifically for like gymnastics. Skills and strength in positions, and it's been really cool to see. And these mini cycles are like four or five weeks, right? They're not long. And it's been really cool to see the people who hit even like two or three of the four to five weeks, just kind of like launch in terms of how they can do whatever that skill is.

Like we had a dip, a ring, dip and position cycle in our last cycle, right? And. I saw a lot of improvement from some folks in their ability to do those movements. We just started a handstand mini cycle, and that's also really cool. I'm excited to see how that goes for folks. You know, so kind of adding in little mini focus cycles that can supplement the other training that you're doing, I think is really exciting.

One of the things that I always do with or often do with. Indoor and with my clients is I do like mini tempo cycles, and so I'll do like two or three weeks where we're focusing on tempo and then we'll adjust the other pieces again, going back to it. 

Matt: That's great. Yeah. When is a full deload week non-negotiable?

Lis: So I think I can think of two main times. One, when you're preparing for a competition. Mm-hmm. Or you're trying to. Retest. Right. So those are two kind of the, in the same vein in my mind. Because you want to make sure that you are fully, as fully recovered as you can be going into it. Right. And then if you are finding or you're coming to terms with the fact that you actually might be in a plateau.

Mm-hmm. You might need to deload to then get the momentum to go back into intensity or. Whatever your focus is going to be for your next cycle of training. Sometimes it takes a small step back, quote unquote, right. To take a much bigger step forward. You might just need that reset 

Matt: and it's important.

Yep. It's important to work that in. 

Lis: Absolutely. 

Matt: How often is a strength plateau really an under fueling issue? 

Lis: Ooh so

probably fairly often, if I'm being honest, like thinking about most of the people that we. We work with. Like, I don't have the data on the top of my head. Right. Yeah. But I think most of the time, a lot of the time people don't eat well enough or often enough

Or time it well enough. Right. That's the other piece is I think one of the. The big things. Also, I'm a member of the chronically under fueled club often, so, takes one to know one kind of a situation. I've started implementing what I call workout snacks.

Yes. Yeah. And and because I need I, it's one of those things like, as if I start my warmup and I'm instantly hungry, I'm like, girl, you need to, you need to eat something, you know? So, I just have a few things in my toolbox so to speak, that I'll use to. Make sure that I'm, I've got some good carbs.

Yeah. Specifically in my system when I'm training 

Matt: staying fueled. 

Lis: That's right. 

Matt: What's your favorite quick win for recovery? When sleep hours can't increase. 

Lis: So I think doing anything that gives your body an opportunity to reset. Even if that means, like, it, one of the things that, that I kind of struggle with, especially when I am, not recovered effectively is just how overstimulating the gym environment could be. Yeah. Yeah. Right. And so like I, I use my earplugs a lot or I put in my earbuds and I just try to like find my happy place and like do some breathing or find a specific task to kind of focus on and center myself on. You know, there's a lot of other stretch.

Some people are into ice bath. Some people are into, you know, and like, without going too deep into the physiology of all that stuff, you know, I think there's, there's value in finding literally any of those activities that helps you feel like you can bring your heart rate down. You can bring that breathing rate down.

You can kind of quiet the noise, so to speak. Yeah. And give yourself a moment of respite. Right. 

Matt: Yep. All right. What are some signs that stress not training is the bottleneck and how do you address it? 

Lis: I think the first place a lot of signs of stress show up is your sleep. Yeah. So if you are struggling to fall asleep or stay asleep, to me, that's kind of the first thing I would look at in terms of life stress and what can we do to improve that because.

If you're following a structured program and you know, a well-written structured program and the rest of your life is a total cluster mess, like you, we need to do some other, some of the work that we need to do as outside of the gym. Yeah, right. So, it's unfortunately we're whole human beings.

Sometimes, unfortunately, and, and, uh, who experienced that stress on a regular basis. 

Matt: So talking about reframing, how do you coach athletes to see a plateau as data and not do? 

Lis: I always use the language of making it an opportunity, you know, and I, uh. It's a, it's an opportunity for us to take a closer look at what we're doing and your body is literally just telling us what it's trying to tell us what it needs and we just need to listen to it.

Yeah. Right. And it's, I think especially for some of our aging athletes the. Communication changes. Yep. And that can be really frustrating. But it's up to us to listen to what our body is trying to tell us and figure it out. That's good. 

Matt: Is there a mantra or exercise used to keep motivation high during a stall?

Lis: For me in particular I just want to be the strongest. Lady who never ends up in a nursing home. Yeah. Yep. And so every time I feel like I don't wanna do whatever it is. I, I want to maintain that autonomy and keep competing in something. Yeah. And, you know, and so I try to anchor to that. Yeah.

It's, my training is very different, you know, compared to when I was an athlete and leaving that behind is a newer thing for me. Right. So it's a. It's a definite change in my mentality, but trying to be the strongest old lady I can be yeah's is kind of my goal. 

Matt: Yeah, that's a great goal.

Yeah. Alright, so myth busting time. Myth number one, add weight every week or you're wasting time. 

Lis: False. All right. False. I think again, kind of going back to you know, the different variables that we can manipulate in our training. Sometimes, especially if you're feeling like you're in a plateau.

Maybe you're hitting the same weight, but you're changing the volume that you're doing or you're changing the tempo, or you're adding in pauses in your, in your lifts. You know, like changing all of those, not at the same time, but like playing with those variables can be really meaningful for helping you burst through.

Whatever your sticking point might be, it's just like doing pauses at your sticking point in a lift. Right? We do pause, bench press, or bottom of our squat holds often because that's a really valuable way to work through it. 

Matt: Yep. 

Lis: Yeah. 

Matt: Myth number two, if you're not sore, you didn't work hard enough. 

Lis: Myth.

Yeah, 

Matt: same. 

Lis: Same thing with the not sweating, you're not working hard enough kind of thing. If. You it, I think it feels good to be sore sometimes, right? Yeah. Because it feels like you did something, but physiologically you don't have to be sore for it to have been effective. Yeah. Period. 

Matt: Myth three, more volume always breaks a plateau.

Lis: False. 

Matt: False. Because, 

Lis: yep. Because sometimes that plateau is because you might be over-training. So if you add volume to an over-training situation that is not going to help 

Matt: compounding for the worst. Yep. Myth number four, switch programs entirely. The moment progress slows 

Lis: also a myth. We need to evaluate the program and see where and life things, right.

Evaluate all the, evaluate all of the things that might be contributing to slowing progress or plateauing. So that we can identify what thing or things to change up. 

Matt: Yeah. 

Lis: Yep. 

Matt: Myth number five, cardio ruins strength gains, period. 

Lis: False. False. Again, look at all of our hybrid athletes that are crushing it right now.

You know, I think, I know hybrid athlete is kind of a new term, but really people who are finding ways to balance their cardio training and their strength training. It's kind of having a moment right now and there are those of us who have been doing it for eons, right? But it's kind of cool.

If done well, you absolutely can make gains under a barbell and. Running if that's what you choose to do with your time. 

Matt: Next Myth. Older athletes can't bust plateaus, they just decline. 

Lis: Absolute myth. You know, it does get a little bit harder for some of us not some of us, all of us who are fortunate enough to get older.

It does get harder as we age to make gains. That's just. Human physiology and development over the lifespan. That's just how it goes. That said, it's not impossible, you know, it it might look different, but all of us are capable of making improvements and gains. 

Matt: Yeah. And last myth, supplements should be the first fix.

Lis: Also false. They might be a piece of the equation, but the first fix should always be a val or first step. Should always be evaluating what you're currently doing to see what can, what The lowest. I always talk about the lowest hanging fruit. Yeah. Like what's the thing that looks the most problematic here?

Are you crushing it in the gym? Are you eating well? Are you sleeping well? But you are a booze bag on the weekends? Okay. Maybe we need to address a lifestyle thing, right? Yeah. Yep. You know, so it doesn't necessarily need to be fixed by one thing. It could be what you're training in the, in the gym.

It could be your sleep, it could be any number of things and supplements are not going to fix any of those things. Yeah, specifically. 

Matt: Alright. For this week's unstoppable challenge, this week, audit one. Training variable volume, intensity, nutrition or recovery. Identify the weakest link, make a single adjustment, and track the result for two weeks.

Collecting data is always better than guessing. Remember, plateaus aren't brick walls. The road signs pointing you in the direction of your next breakthrough. You're unstoppable by design. If you're ready for a coach guided blueprint to smash your stall, head to juggernaut-fitness.com and book a free Get to Know You session.

We'll help turn that plateau into a launch pad. Hit follow drop. A quick review if today's episode sparked an aha moment and keep notifications on new shows land every Tuesday. And next week I'm chatting with our operations manager, Sara Fogg. On balancing full-time motherhood with prioritizing health and fitness, you'll learn real world hacks to juggle schedules, sleep and self-care.

Until then, be well be unstoppable.