23 - From Burnout to Balance with Kyra Cavanaugh

Season 1, Episode 23: From Burnout to Balance with Kyra Cavanaugh

Introduction to Kyra Cavanaugh and Energy Management

In this episode of the Wellness in Asheville Podcast, host Travis Richardson is joined by Kyra Cavanaugh, an energy coach, Qigong teacher, and well-being consultant. We delve into the pervasive issue of burnout in our post-pandemic world and explore how to manage our energy to live a more aligned and fulfilling life. 

Kyra shares her personal journey from being a self-proclaimed workaholic to discovering the power of energy management through Qigong and Taoist traditions. We discuss the science behind why we are energetic beings, the importance of self-awareness, and practical steps to shift from a state of constant doing to a state of being.

This conversation covers the cultural pressures that lead to burnout, the difference between rest and recovery, and how to create a work environment that fosters well-being. 

Kyra explains how to identify and manage energy drains, the benefits of practices like Qigong, and the importance of self-compassion in the healing process. We also touch on the unique challenges faced by individuals and teams in corporate settings and how to cultivate a culture of trust and autonomy.

Key Takeaways:

•The concept of managing your energy, not just your time, and how to apply it in daily life.

•How to recognize the signs of burnout and the importance of self-awareness and compassion.

•The difference between mindset shifts and taking action to address burnout.

•Practical techniques for energy management, including Qigong, mindfulness, and setting boundaries.

•How to create a supportive work environment that prevents burnout and promotes well-being.

•The importance of finding what energizes you personally, whether it's a quiet hobby or an active pursuit.

Timestamps:

•00:00 - 01:39 | Introduction to Kyra Cavanaugh and the topic of burnout.

•01:39 - 07:17 | What is energy management and why is it important?

•07:17 - 12:32 | The importance of 'how' you do something over 'what' you do.

•02:32 - 17:34 | Practical steps to take when you're feeling burnt out.

•17:34 - 22:21 | Why is it so hard for us to rest?

•22:21 - 28:15 | Coaching teams to prevent burnout in a corporate setting.

•28:15 - 31:05 | How different personality types experience energy drain.

•31:05 - 35:01 | Kira's personal wellness routine

•35:01 - 44:04 | What is Qigong and how can it help with energy management?

•44:04 - 49:22 | The importance of feeling safe in your body and taking the first step on your healing journey.

•49:22 - 56:04 | Rapid-fire questions and how to connect with Kira.

Episode Links:

•15BE.com

•freeryourself.world

•Free Yourself World YouTube Channel

•Asheville Community Yoga

The Wellness in Asheville podcast is produced by Be Well Asheville, your local news source covering health + wellness news + events in Asheville. Get the latest at bewellasheville.com or follow @bewellasheville.

Transcript

Travis Richardson (00:31)
All right, today's guest is Kyra Cavanaugh, an energy coach, Qigong teacher and well-being consultant who's helped individuals and leaders recover from burnout and live in alignment with their energy, not their calendar. She can find her classes at Asheville Community Yoga and explore her consulting and coaching resources at 15BE.com. That's 15BE.com and freeyourself.world. And in today's episode, I just found it really

fascinating to hear Kyra's perspective on burnout and the kind of ways that she approaches that and how she's helped others. And it really brought up a lot of ⁓ feelings from the Helene ⁓ era that we're still sort of crawling out of really

And so I just feel like this episode really was a reminder to live with in the center of ourselves, not outside of ourselves, Without further ado, let's hear from Kyra.

Travis Richardson (01:39)
Welcome to the Wellness in Asheville podcast today. I'm excited because we have Kyra Cavanagh here to talk to us all things related to energy burnout and recovery. Kyra, how are doing today?

Kyra Cavanaugh (01:50)
I'm great. Travis, it's so nice to be with you. Hello, everyone who's listening.

Travis Richardson (01:55)
Ah, yes, I'm excited to talk to you today. The reason is, I feel like as the people I've talked to recently, just like in general, are experiencing, I mean, I don't know if it's post-Helene stress still, but it feels like there's just a ton of burnout and kind of like energy drain that it seems like it's nobody's, we just haven't really recovered from. And so,

I'm stoked to talk to you about that topic today.

Kyra Cavanaugh (02:25)
Yeah, it's, ⁓ we could just talk about that. You don't need to ask me any questions or get into a conversation, right? I could just go off for hours talking about just, my goodness. I mean, it just prompts me to take a big deep breath. We're all going through so much. Even if we feel like, yeah, I've got it. I've got it going on. Things are good.

There's still this underlying challenge for so, so many people right now. And so I'm so grateful that you invited me to talk about these topics with you today. Thanks, Trev.

Travis Richardson (03:01)
Yeah,

yeah. One of the notes I made was how you talk about this idea of energy management. And the reason why that kind of struck me is because I follow this guy, some of the listeners maybe have heard of him, Sadguru. And he talks also about like managing your energy and this beautiful mechanism that you have called your body. And really talks about kind of engineering, you know, yourself. And you also talk about energy.

management but I don't think a lot of people understand what that means it feels like kind of out of reach so you know it's like and let me put this in a bit of context it's one thing I guess to be you know going to a yoga class and ⁓ kind of having these set times when you're quote-unquote managing your energy but what I'm curious about is from your perspective what does that look like outside of yoga class

Kyra Cavanaugh (04:02)
So here's the thing, I didn't know what it looked like. I had no idea that I am made of energy, that you are made of energy. Like I was a workaholic and I don't throw that term out lightly and I got very burned out and sold a business because of it, because I didn't even know that I had a certain amount of energy and that I had no clue how to manage it. So I came into this.

you know, not sure exactly eight to ten years ago or so when I was feeling burned out and I started ⁓ taking classes and training from various masters in ⁓ Qigong and the Taoist traditions of energy and it blew my mind. I was at a weekend retreat and it blew my mind when they started talking about how we are energy and I'd heard about quantum physics but

I'm not a physicist. I didn't really, I wasn't gonna go study all of that, but I kinda had heard just in my day-to-day life that something about how we're made of energy. And so what's happened is is that quantum physicists have proven what ancients have known for millennia, which is that we are just energy. So your physical body isn't solid.

Our thoughts, our energy, our emotions, our energy, illnesses, injuries, things that happen to us, relationships, places we live, the political or socioeconomic situation in our world, all of that can feel very fixed. It can feel like we're fixed. And so it can be absolutely life-changing, like it was for me, to realize like, no, actually nothing is fixed. Everything is changeable.

and our desire to attach to thoughts, to beliefs, to shoulds, to the way that we think things are supposed to be, to grieve, to be sorrowful, to be sad, to be angry. All of those emotions take energy. And then certainly physically, we probably can connect to that idea of physical energy best. When you're cuddling up with your cat, like you can feel something physically like,

⁓ I love the softness of their fur. Or when you're walking in the rain, I was in the rain earlier today and you can feel the sensation of the rain. We can get a sense of like, ooh, sometimes being in a body feels really good. And then sometimes being in a body feels really bad. I met a man who had a knee replacement that didn't feel very good. Right? So this idea of energy management is really just to recognize, wow, wait a second. I have all of this energy at my disposal.

and we can talk about kind of where that energy comes from. And guess what? I get to manage it. And there are so many ways to manage it way beyond yoga. And so it's great if you've discovered yoga, but it's so much simpler than that. And so yeah, the idea with energy management is you have it, you are it, and you can learn how to use it for your benefit.

Travis Richardson (07:17)
I love that. was just thinking,

you ever have a download of like, you just are like doing some random thing, it always happens to me, I'm in the shower, I'm mowing, I don't know, I'm on a jog, often happens then. ⁓ And I'm like, my gosh. It's like, I just had this realization that it matters so much more how I'm doing something, how I'm doing it, than the thing I'm doing. And I was like, all the things, I feel like.

in my life, you know, whether it's mowing the lawn, some simple thing like that, or we talked about, you talked about your son getting a college degree, you know, or getting that next job promotion. ⁓ It feels like there's these things that feel like our progress in life, but I've started to decide that for me personally, those don't feel so much like the things I'm chasing anymore. More so that inner state of calm,

of doing something really well and feeling calm while doing it. Does that make any sense? guess more as do you ever have that idea of like this is more important to focus on how I'm doing it than the actual accomplishment of the thing?

Kyra Cavanaugh (08:27)
Yeah.

Yeah, yes, I do. And it can feel really countercultural. It's one thing to decide to do that in yoga class or a Qigong, which is what I teach. It's quite another to bring that whole attitude into your entire life. Because in our world, you know, we talk, we brag, we socialize, we connect, we share based on how many steps we took for the day, how long you ran, how much you lifted.

How many people are you networked with at the event? You we measure our progress all the time in the West. We're always thinking, what did I accomplish? You didn't finish mowing the lawn, Travis, you only got partway through because of the rain, right? And our brain goes to like, I gotta go finish it. Well, what if you never finished it, right? So I think that's the real benefit. I can't believe I'm saying this. With all of the stress and everything that happens to us, there's a moment where

Travis Richardson (09:11)
Yeah.

Kyra Cavanaugh (09:29)
We can either shift our mindset or we break. Now I tend to talk a lot in terms of black and white. Of course, everything's on a continuum. But there's that, yes, there's that thing you can pursue and it feels really good when we're pursuing it. And there are chemical, physical reasons why, like our hormones and our brain are reinforcing that achievement. And if we slow down enough to sit in silence or to recognize what rain feels like,

on your face, there's this moment to recognize that I am more than my progress. I am more than my accomplishment. I'm more than my title or my college degree or where I live or how much money I make. And there's a moment to be like you said, Travis, fully present. It's raining on me. Does it make my muscles want to move to run inside? Do I want to stand here and smell the rain? Rain has a smell. I've never smelled rain before.

So yeah, there's an opportunity. Sometimes we come to it through an injury or through an illness or through the death of a loved one or through tragedy. And we've all been through so much of that in Asheville. And we can lose sight of what matters to us in those moments. And we also have this invitation to come back. Does it really matter? The hurricane changed us. I'm not the same person I was before.

Do I wanna be that person? Or does that open up, Travis, for you? I don't wanna know that I care about the same things I cared about before. Can we have the courage to stop and take that moment of awareness and realization and then just be open to what comes as a result? That's so cool that you're getting to that point. I've gotten to that point too, for sure.

Travis Richardson (11:16)
you

Well, I bounce back and bounce around in that from that point of trust me. I I, yeah, I don't hold it for, um, you know, the goal is to hold it for longer and longer periods of time. Uh, but I'm still not there. was talking to my, my partner, uh, she's, in a, uh, job that she initially really loved and really believed in her company. I hope nobody's listening out there from her company, but, know, there's, there's been times I guess in recent.

Kyra Cavanaugh (11:20)
Yeah, believe me, man. I got you.

Travis Richardson (11:47)
⁓ recent times for her where she's felt so, so burnt out that she doesn't even know how to, and people are like, well, just find a new job or, ⁓ why don't you just do this? And all these things to me also feel like, well, that is true. She could just go get it. Why not go start networking and do all these things? But it's often the case that people are so, so overly taxed and so burnt out and so demoralized and so maybe even depressed and feel so

so stuck that even to move into another job doing the same exact thing for another company feels like impossible to get there. how do you, what would be something you'd recommend if somebody's feeling that way,

Kyra Cavanaugh (12:32)
The very first thing is to offer yourself some compassion to just take enough of a time with yourself. So maybe you just go for a walk. Maybe you journal or you do some dancing or some art or whatever, ⁓ makes you feel safe. So step one, do I need a mindset shift or do I need some sort of action? See, what can happen is, is we can feel ⁓

on or dis and then fill in the word that we want, right? Unfulfilled, we can feel disconcerted or discontent or discourage. And then we feel like, well, it's easy to think, well, I have to make a move. I have to move jobs. You just set it yourself, Travis, right? The advice is, well, just get another one. Well, wait a second. First of all, if we just, if we take an action when we haven't stopped to give ourselves a few minutes, minutes could be years, could be weeks, could be months.

We need to give ourselves some time. We may be just leapfrogging into the next wrong thing for us. So the first opportunity is to just recognize, how am I feeling? Ask yourself, how am I feeling? And a lot of us, myself included, are never taught, even from the time we're children, to feel. And so that can be a radical act, to just ask myself, how am I feeling? And to be able to identify that. Now there's this beautiful device called an emotions wheel.

Those of you who are listening who don't really know how to name or identify emotion, go find one of those. They're used by therapists everywhere and they're brilliant at helping us recognize that there are many layers to that emotion. What do I think about this? What are my fixed beliefs about work? Is work supposed to fulfill me? Am I not supposed to care? Am I supposed to only work when I love my work? So what are your beliefs around work and what's not working for you?

doesn't mean those beliefs are wrong or bad. And then what is the physical toll that this is taking on you? So step one is just to find a safe place and enough time to just do a little inventory. And if you're really disconnected from yourself, the way I was when I was first experiencing burnout, even it could be a radical act just to slow down long enough to spend a little time with yourself to recognize that, then do that inventory. How am I feeling? What am I thinking?

that's limiting or expanding my opportunity for possibilities. And then what is the impact on my body? And then give yourself some compassion, some forgiveness, some kindness and understanding. You are where you are through a whole host of variables and factors that have gotten you to that moment. This is an opportunity to then choose mindset or movement. So mindset, how am I thinking about this? And are there opportunities for me to reframe?

or to shift. Someone ⁓ came to me complaining about something this morning. and I could feel the blood pressure coming up. And then I started singing ⁓ that Bobby McFerrin song, a super old song, don't worry, be happy now. And I just, it was my way of shifting, like just reframe, change the mindset, just reframe. And sometimes that's not the point. Sometimes we do need to move, but what do you need to move? What do you need to take action? Do you need information? Do you need support? Do you need a good bowl of soup?

You what do you need in order to act and go through that day after day or week after week? It takes time for us to learn. Then once you've got a better sense of what you need, can you honor what you need? Do you have a setup where people around you will support you in getting what you need? Are you really unlimited in your resources? And it's hard, you know what you need, but maybe you can't give it to yourself right now. Can you give it a give yourself a portion of that?

Or could you set a date in the future where you could give yourself that? Yeah, I'll stop there. I could talk and talk and talk.

Travis Richardson (16:29)
Hmm. No, that's really beautiful

and beautiful answer there. ⁓ You know, a bowl of soup is what I took is the takeaway. Sometimes you just need a bowl of soup, right? I love that.

Kyra Cavanaugh (16:42)
Sometimes a bowl of soup fixes

everything.

Travis Richardson (16:46)
my gosh, that's like

a bumper sticker or something or a shirt. I don't know. Like, I just feel like I've got this bowl of soup on my mind now. But why is it so hard for us to rest? I feel like it's just like, you know, we all need like permission, it feels like from somebody or something to be able to rest. Why is it so hard?

Kyra Cavanaugh (16:53)
Yeah.

Yeah, well, there's the way that we're built as human bodies. And then there's the way that we've been raised. I'll take the way you're in a human body and the human body has a nervous system and I'm not a scientist and I'm not a doctor. So I'm not gonna get into all specifics. I'll give you the kindergarten version of this, which is that our body is built for protection and performance for survival.

Travis Richardson (17:27)
You

Kyra Cavanaugh (17:34)
And so our nervous systems are looking for threats in the ecosystem and devising strategies to address them. So then I'll get to, and that's happening without us even being aware of it. What scientists will tell us now is that getting a stressful email is to our nervous system, spotting a lion in the wilderness.

Our brains and our nervous systems can't distinguish between the two. So you might think really, Kyra, how unsafe am I? Hopefully you're thinking that because many of us don't feel safe in our day-to-day lives. ⁓ But our brains are assessing always all the time the threats. And so if you're working at a fairly high level of stress, you're in a world that is pretty darn stressful right now. Your body is reacting with the chemicals and hormones it needs to stay alive.

And the longer that happens, the more opportunity there is to deplete our energy and burnout. Then to your question, Travis, each one of us has been raised with a framework, with a belief system, with positive and negative reinforcements for behaviors that for many of us ingrain our thoughts, feelings, and our physical actions into performing and not resting.

The way we rest is to just tune in and pay attention. Is there an opportunity for me to rest? So one of the things that happens with people that I coach is that our nervous system is going, going, going. Our belief system is I gotta keep going, going, going. And we miss the exit ramp. We miss the opportunities for rest. So what I would say is just try to pay attention to the opportunities.

One last thing, there's this kind of work hard, play hard ethos in our culture. The idea that I'm supposed to go, go, go, go. And then I'm going to have a weekend or I'm going to have a vacation and that's going to fix it. And it doesn't fix it. That's when you know you're burning out. So I always encourage, look for recovery moments. Like after we're done talking, you don't have to jump into your next thing. You actually can rest and maybe you still have an appointment at the top of the hour.

but you could take three deep breaths. You could do 10 jumping jacks. You could text somebody and tell them you love them. You could pet your dog, you know? There are little moments of recovery of rust, but we don't give ourselves credit for those things. So when people start to recognize, wait a second, my gosh, Gere's talking about this. I actually do do some of those things. Tell your brain, give your brain credit, because it will help your brain slow and calm down.

Travis Richardson (20:16)
it almost feels like we're, we've been harnessed into being these kinds of workers from the, all the way back from the industrial revolution and before that as well. It's not that long ago that we developed 40 hour work weeks. It's not that long ago that we stopped having children be our laborers.

And I still feel like we're all on that same pace and as we move into this new ⁓ AI, ridiculously tech forward, ⁓ you know, space, you can't work. I mean, I don't know about you, but I can't work 10 to 12 hours at a computer and think even halfway clearly. I mean, after four or five hours, I'm, shot. I'm done. I remember you said I used to be back when I was an aerospace engineer ⁓ way back in the day. I was remember after lunch.

I'd walk by people's cubicles and I'd see people just playing solitaire or just totally checked out for like two, three hours. mean, sometimes it's an entire afternoon and nobody really talked about it. But what they were doing is basically saying, can't work any, I can't think anymore like you want me to think. And that's the world we're sort of in. Well, I want to move into, this is a good segue to move into sort of the, I'm curious about the corporate and

that kind of aspect that you've worked with in terms of working with teams ⁓ and also just what you know about how teams function better when they're focusing on their own wellbeing and ⁓ taking personal rest. And I guess how do you coach teams to operate differently in the context of like a wellness space around this idea of burnout, prevention of burnout and that kind of thing.

Kyra Cavanaugh (22:01)
Mm.

Yeah, I've totally got like an office space visual going on right now with like all the folks that are like playing solitaire or doing whatever in their cubicles in those big old cubicle farms, the old school cubicle.

Travis Richardson (22:12)
I, yeah. Oh, I, yeah, I've got the fish. I've

got the fish on being filleted on the office table in my mind right now. Like that's totally what, and the soup, the bowl of soup and the fish now are both in my mind. Yeah.

Kyra Cavanaugh (22:21)
I love it. We've got these little markers throughout our

conversation. Yeah, well, so the very best thing you can do as a team is talk about the fact that everyone wants to play solitaire at 2.30 in the afternoon. I mean, really, really what the work that I do as teams is really just about, can we just be open and honest and authentic? We are not robots. You're exactly right. We're not robots.

no matter how hard you try. mean, how much of us, I think about, you know, college and how it was like, I was trying to cram for a test, but at some point your, your head is literally bobbing, you falling asleep. Like we are not robots. We need rest. So one of the best things you can do as a team is acknowledge, I need a break to create to one of the things that, ⁓ I used to do when I was running a fairly large team.

We would have, we call them capacity calls and every week, and we went old school just on like a sheet or a Excel doc. And so it wasn't even a high tech complicated. There are much more high tech complicated ways to do it now. But the idea is, is each one of us had to report out on how many hours we had in the week and how much work we had to do. mean, it's a basic math equation. And it took months and months and months for people on the team to build trust up enough to say.

I've got a little capacity and I can help someone or for someone to say, I'm working so hard and I haven't seen my kids and then I really need a break. So normalizing conversations about energy around capacity, around work, around performance, and then setting boundaries, teaching how do I set a boundary? How do I say, I don't want to do this anymore or I'm burning out like you were saying with your partner.

We have to make it okay to have these conversations. So we minimize, start to reduce the heroics. We stop talking about, I worked X number of hours yesterday or, ⁓ know, pizza in the conference room again last night. Like we wear those things like a badge. There's this opportunity for teams. And that's the work that I do is really to help teams identify what are those kind of badges that you're wearing as a team.

And what are the impacts of those? Now we know for team performance, we always want some stress. We talk in the vernacular like stress is bad stress from a physiological perspective is actually good. It creates a gap between where we are and where we want to be. The problem is when that stress gets so much and for such a long period of time, that's when we risk burnout. So the work I do is just to have the leader has to be involved in the conversation.

because it can't just be the people that are reporting up to somebody, it has to be the whole group. You just identify where are our blind spots, where do we have this old fashioned, ⁓ these shoulds, these beliefs, these ideas around what performance looks like. Put metrics in place so you can measure true performance, actual work getting done, and then give people autonomy and a fancy word called agency, the ability for them to organize themselves around the work.

A simple way to say it is you set a goal, the team agrees to the goal, negotiates the goal, and then works within their own capacity. Some people love to work at night. Some people are super early morning. People give people the freedom and space to be able to get the work done. We're grownups. We don't need to be supervised, you know, in that sort of old-fashioned way of thinking about it. So at a real basic level, that's the piece that...

that I work with teams and we have to have trust. If you don't trust the people you're working with, then let's make an arrangement to not work together anymore. Because otherwise we're managing in ways that are just so outdated and so demeaning and so demoralizing. It's like, make that go away. Can AI bring in some like end to some of this ridiculousness? I mean, to your point about industrial, the industrial revolution and the industrial era, you'll hear,

management consultants say this all the time, but it's like we're still managing people as though they were on a manufacturing line 150 years ago. mean, it's just absurd, 120 years ago.

Travis Richardson (26:50)
Yeah, most companies are still, it's just lip service that they're giving to, to, to really like, like you said, listening and, and, and honoring the, the person in their, in for what they do. It's, I'm, I think, I think companies should grade themselves or have other, I don't know. I feel like they should be audited for how well they are focusing on, like what I said earlier about how work is being done as opposed to,

just ⁓ focusing on the work itself being done, ⁓ measuring the outcomes in terms of a lot more qualitative ways and not just numbers on a spreadsheet.

Kyra Cavanaugh (27:35)
Exactly. And when a team and a leader understands that their job, Peter Drucker, an old management consultant, he kind of built this idea of what is management. And he always said, the role of the manager is to manage the energy of the team. So when you look at, you know, a yoga class in the middle of the day, or actually leaving your desk or your computer to take lunch, you know, it seems like, oh, that's so frivolous and unnecessary. It's like, no, it's the opposite.

Travis Richardson (27:51)
Hmm

Kyra Cavanaugh (28:05)
Your job is to manage energy and lunch gives you energy. like A plus B, you know, it's just, it's silliness. It's silliness. It's just very outdated ways of thinking about things that we don't need.

Travis Richardson (28:15)
And there's dynamic.

Yeah, and there's dynamics amongst teams too that are interesting. You just talk about managing the energy of a team. I would imagine too, if you're an introvert, if you're more prone to being introverted or more prone to being extroverted, your energy can be drained in two completely different ways, right? Like how do you see those kind of different types of people having their energy drained differently?

Kyra Cavanaugh (28:46)
Yeah, so there are lots of ways we can slice and dice human beings, right? I mean, all of our brains and our nervous systems are wired differently. And so yes, very frequently the leader of the team has a particular style and a particular way that their brain processes. And so then they presume that that's the way everybody else's brains work too. But some of us need more quiet than others. Some of us need to work together collaboratively by talking.

Others want other systems for collaboration. Some people don't take in information. We take in information in so many different ways. We don't all take in information the same. So yeah, for a long time, and it still takes place, there will be personality tests or work style tests that teens will do. And it gives people kind of a fun opportunity to make fun of the fact that you're a crane and I'm a

or whatever, and that's fine. It's fine and it helps us and it gives us insights. To me, it's more about creating that there's a term ⁓ called psychological safety that our Harvard professor Amy Edmondson developed and researched, but the idea is really to create that sense of safety and community and trust so that I can say, I know you're chewing gum.

Travis Richardson (29:45)
you

Kyra Cavanaugh (30:11)
My, I forgot my noise canceling headphones today is their way we can work this out, right? Because I have a sensory issue. so noises and taking dishes out of the dishwasher, putting them in, you know, those things can really impact my ability to concentrate. So for so long, people have had to have felt they've needed to cover or limit themselves and the opportunities that they thought they had available to them based on the way that their brain and their nervous system processes. It's just one more way.

Introvert, extrovert is another way that we manage energy. Like let's just make it safe and okay for us to all be different and interesting, you know, and unique and special.

Travis Richardson (30:51)
Totally.

Totally. Well, tell me what you do for your own personal wellness routine to stay balanced and not get into burnout. How do you take care of yourself? think a lot of the listeners would be curious how the expert does it.

Kyra Cavanaugh (31:05)
Well, the first thing I'm going

to say in ⁓ the spirit of transparency is I am still a work in progress. I am always a work in progress. And there are times that I'm letting too much external stimuli impact my mood. And there are times when I still get frustrated and take a tone. ⁓ So how do I do it? Yes, I am.

Travis Richardson (31:29)
Wait, so that you're human? You're human still? Okay. All

right.

Kyra Cavanaugh (31:33)
I look

back at who I was and how I was handling things five years ago and I'm like, I shudder a little bit. I'm definitely doing better. I'm progressing, but what is better? Right? I think for me, it's continuously being aware of what my brain is trying to trick me into, right? Whether it's judging somebody who I am absolutely sure doesn't like me, right? Or to feel like, well,

Travis Richardson (31:53)
you

Kyra Cavanaugh (32:03)
My brain, I'm so excited about my day. I don't need more sleep, right? My brain is saying, just get up now. So I'm doing, I regularly am monitoring and that might sound exhausting and not fun, but the more I practice it, the more it's just a really quick thing, like flipping into that song when I realize I'm going to the negative place. So part of it is, a lot of it is just self-awareness and just monitoring.

and being aware, oops, there goes that thought that's gonna take me down a path and drain my energy. ⁓ I have gotten into a strength training routine this year and I come from a generation of humans where I was not culturally raised to be that women should be strong. And so I'm just having an absolute blast with that. ⁓ Actually at a local little, there's a hotel that gave us

Travis Richardson (32:40)
Ooh, nice.

Where do you do that at?

Kyra Cavanaugh (32:59)
an opportunity to buy a little annual membership. so it's just a hotel gym. It's really fun. It sort of feels like our little gym. And then I love to hike. I cook and bake. And oh, I wanted to share with you, I read such an interesting study earlier this year. It turns out that some people relax by doing things. So when you were talking about resting,

Travis Richardson (33:01)
Okay. Okay. All right, all right.

Kyra Cavanaugh (33:28)
We tend to think, that means I'm supposed to be a couch potato. But it turns out researchers have identified that even when we're still resting, even when we're doing a hobby, and even when we're doing things that someone else might not think we're resting, but we're actually resting. So I thought of that when I said I bake all of our bread and I cook our meals and things with local ingredients. it just, no, but you can't see the smile on my face right now, but it just brings me such joy.

Travis Richardson (33:50)
But that makes... ⁓

Kyra Cavanaugh (33:56)
And I thought that's a huge way that I relax. And then I teach Qigong. So I do Qigong multiple times a week,

Travis Richardson (34:03)
so the idea that you can be relaxed while doing something, that does go back to what you were saying about energy management, because really anything that adjusts your energy, in this case, like for me, gardening, I also like to cook.

⁓ And those are all things that like I would say modulate my my energy and I actually gain energy from doing those things where some people that would like exhaust them or it's just not them they're gonna gain energy from reading a book

And that's so it's really about I think more about modulating the the energy more so than saying rest equals sleep or rest equals laying down or something like that I think we can both agree with that now That's a good segue into Qigong because I don't know a lot about Qigong I've done a touch of it, but like I guess tell me about how Qigong might modulate somebody's energy in a good way

Kyra Cavanaugh (35:01)
Well, first I will first I have to tell you I've never thought about it in that frame. And I love that Travis. It is about modulating energy. So the easiest analogy is, know, maybe you've got your headphones and in your music is really loud. And all of a sudden there's a moment where you realize, Ooh, this song needs to be turned down. Right. So it's that same idea. And you're absolutely right. What energizes one person is very different than what energizes another. If you invited me to help you fix your

I would want to curl up in a little ball and go to sleep immediately. Like even just saying I'm going to fix my car. I literally can feel my energy go down. I want to turn into a cat on a windowsill, right? But for somebody else, I can spend the afternoon fixing my car. Yes. So yes, I love that. I think that that can be really transformative to just pay attention. And I always encourage people to do that. Just pay attention.

When you're talking with certain people, they're gonna raise your energy up. Other people are gonna draw your energy way down. So yeah, you can start to identify for yourself if you've never thought about it in that frame. I love that, Travis. Yeah.

Travis Richardson (36:10)
I got.

I have one more thing to say. This is going to be,

this is really funny. I just had this thought when we were talking. Have you ever had the experience where you're talking to someone and they're really not on your same sort of energetic vibe, call it. They're just totally not that they're bad or anything like that. Just not vibing at all with you. And, both people feel the same. And then you get the, like a yawn. I literally had this experience the other day. I'm talking to this guy and he, and I are just.

Kyra Cavanaugh (36:35)
Yes!

Travis Richardson (36:40)
I'm like, okay, we're, think we should probably be wrapped this up because I have just modulated his energy way low and he needs to go to sleep. If he continues to talk to me any longer.

Kyra Cavanaugh (36:58)
my God, those moments are like, okay, I'm not gonna take it personally. We're just gonna use this as a cue. Yeah, I love that. I'm sorry for you. It turns out we're gonna talk about qigong. So I'll segue into that by telling you actually yawning, ⁓ crying, burping, passing gas in any way that you feel like shaking.

Travis Richardson (37:05)
Yeah.

Kyra Cavanaugh (37:24)
They're all ways of purging, of releasing energy that's being built up. So I wonder if in this low energy conversation, if his body naturally just yawned because he had to get out of the really heavy, like sleepy energy to get it out of there. Bob tried to help, yeah. So qigong is this funny thing. you know, it's pronounced a million different ways. It's spelled different ways.

Travis Richardson (37:37)
You

way you reframed that. That's really good positive reframe. Love that. Thank you.

Kyra Cavanaugh (37:53)
People maybe have heard of it, but I didn't even know what it was. I just knew how it made me feel. So qi is the word for energy in Chinese. means work. so it's energy work. So people are familiar with yoga. Most people are. You may like it, may not like it, but you're familiar with it. So yoga is an energy practice. It's you're moving your body, twisting and bending to release energy.

So Qigong is an energy management ⁓ system and practice that was developed by Taoists a bazillion years ago, and they developed it by watching nature. So Qigong, I'll call it, try to find super easy ways to frame it. it's, you know, what to China, what yoga is to India. It's the grandmother of Tai Chi. Most people have seen Tai Chi. My challenge with Tai Chi was you have to do a bunch of movements in a very specific way.

Back in the day, I was trying to watch, like, learn on video, and so I'd be, turned around, and I couldn't see what was happening, and I was just in my head all the time. I practiced yoga for over 20 years. I was always in my head or in my body, like, how many downward dogs can I do? Have I stretched enough? You know? So what Qigong does is it really creates an environment of quiet, stillness, and slowness. And that will drive you nuts.

If you're trying to like accomplish and achieve and move and grow and build and all of the words that we use, chigung can feel like the worst possible idea ever. Like why would I want to people always say, that's when people are doing those really slow things in the park. And I would never want to do that. I always want to say, well, don't knock until you try it. Because you talk about paying attention to energy and modulating energy.

Oh, you can't see a smile on my face, but Qigong like really helps you realize like how much your brain wants to run the show and how much slowing down your body challenges your brain. And then you have to choose. Am I going to keep trusting my body and move the energy to help me feel better? Or am I going let my brain tell me this is stupid and I should be going faster? And why did I come to this class? You know,

So that's what I love about it. It's this tension between trusting your body and trusting your energy and listening to your brain.

Travis Richardson (40:25)
That's great. I know that we have like, I think science says we have like 70,000 thoughts a day. I think that's the number. mean, it's just a staggering, staggering number of, I mean, and some of you are like, Oh, Travis, I have 140,000. I'm pretty sure. But the whole goal here is to, you know, with Qigong, yoga, all of these practices, I imagine what happens is the, we're trying to increase the

Kyra Cavanaugh (40:33)
my goodness.

Exactly.

Travis Richardson (40:55)
between thoughts so that you have less of them. ⁓ It's like planting, it's like creating a garden space that's really conducive to grow vegetables in the same way that, in the same way Qigong is like, I think probably creating a space, ⁓ cultivating an environment where you have less intrusive thoughts because the gaps and things like that. That's how I'm envisioning it because if you're slowing things down, you're creating space. And anytime you create space, you create kind of this resiliency.

and more calm energy, whereas you're not so frantic, having racing thoughts, probably people sleep better too.

Kyra Cavanaugh (41:33)
Yeah, well, and there's an expression which is where your thoughts go, energy flows. So have you ever had that experience where you're building up the argument against somebody in your head and the more you justify yourself, the more angry you get and the more you are absolutely convinced you are right, right? Like your brain just wants to build the argument. So where is the energy in your body going? It's not to digest your food.

It's not to envision a powerful, amazing future. It's going to build the argument with that human. So Qigong really teaches you to recognize if I'm moving my body, I'm raising my arm, but I'm thinking about what I need to buy at the grocery store, I'm not in sync. I'm not in sync. So then we'll practice. Like when you recognize your bot, you're one of those thousands and thousands of thoughts just hit your brain.

It's okay, we don't need to judge it. Just invite your brain back to your hand. And so the more that you practice that, the more you realize how much we're out of sync with ourselves in our day-to-day lives and what an invitation there is to just be, you and I are talking. We are fully present for each other. Our mind and our bodies, our senses, they're all tuned into this moment.

And so it makes it so much more enjoyable to be human, to be alive, to be in connection with each other when we can be synced up and not so scattered, which is what happens with our energy. And then how do you manage scattered energy? It's like trying to like pull things out of the sky, herding cats, right?

Travis Richardson (43:15)
Mm-hmm. That's so true. I've said this on another podcast. I was talking about Eckhart Tolle and he wrote The Power of Now and he talks about, and some others do this kind of technique like body scanning where you just sit with yourself and you just feel like, you know, close your eyes and feel the different parts of you. And you can start to do this even like I'm talking to you right now. And I just kicked into that mode of like, I'm feeling my fingers and my sensations. And it's just like,

this way of dropping into and embodying into yourself which I think is the practice we need to do more of right now in this in life because it's the one thing that takes you out of your head and it puts you back into yourself like into your real self.

Kyra Cavanaugh (44:04)
I agree and I also want to acknowledge that for so many people, it doesn't feel safe to be in our bodies. For so many reasons, some people's bodies have betrayed them through illness. Some people have been through very traumatic experiences where they've dissociated on purpose because it's a strategy to stay alive and to stay safe.

And so I just want to acknowledge that if you're listening and you don't feel safe in your body, that we see you, we hear you, and we respect where you are. And it doesn't mean that you have to spend a life disconnected or living in a body that doesn't feel safe. And so Travis, the people that you're interviewing on your podcasts, I'm sure are demonstrating that as well.

There are so many invitations. are so many modalities, so many beautiful, incredible healers in Asheville that can help you at your own pace, in your own time, at your own level of readiness, step into very safe, very slow ways to begin that exploration. So if

people who are listening are starting, maybe you've come today because you're curious and you're starting that journey. I just want to welcome you and tell you it's okay to be where you are. And also to recognize one important distinction that you can make is for some people when we start this journey, we want practitioners who can help us. So someone who does Reiki, for example, they're

They're helping you release and move that energy that you don't know how to move yourself. Qi Gong teaches you to come into power and awareness so you can learn to move the energy yourself. So sometimes it can feel really scary or people can say, no, I really don't want to do that because maybe you think, well, it's always up to someone else to be doing that on you or for you or with you.

Other people might feel very comfortable learning how to come into their own agency, their own embodiment on their own. So Travis, I just wanted to acknowledge that because I think every one of us has an invitation to come into ourselves more. And for some of us, I know for me too, I had no idea what I was going to uncover on that journey. So.

I don't want to make it sound like, yeah, come on in, water's warm, it's easy to be mindful. You know, and I'm not saying that's what you're saying, but I just know that for many of us it's like, yeah, this is great, I love it, come on, join me at yoga, and it can be hard.

Travis Richardson (47:01)
Yeah. ⁓

I just wanted to say thank you for that.

think that's probably one of the more important messages that I've received from, I've had many guests on here already that are sharing important messages, but that was really struck me as like, wow, that's true and needed to be heard. We ⁓ really need to honor the people out there that are just, of course, ⁓ either new on their journey or starting out on their journey.

And

are just trying to figure out like something that it's going to help them. And so many times it's, it's scary to take that first step. And I guess I also just want to encourage people who are listening that once you do take that first step, just know that the universe often conspires to bring the right people your way. So if you hear something on this podcast, you know, maybe it's something Kyra said or someone else, I think the main message is that, that,

⁓ ease into it, but maybe consider taking your first step and I think you'll be in good company with anybody who I have on here anyways. ⁓

Kyra Cavanaugh (48:16)
I love that. Yeah. I would

also invite. Sometimes we can feel really guilty or invite shame into our lives by thinking, well, I used to start my morning with prayer or I used to go to the gym. Maybe I should get back to that. And I always want to encourage people if you wanted to get back to it, you would have gotten back to it. It's OK. Don't invite the shame and the blame because it might mean that you're ready for something new.

So yeah, try something new. And I think when we get curious, I love what you said, Travis. There will be, you don't have to analyze it all. You don't have to read all the reviews. Some people love to just get social proof before they try something. And if that's your jam, go for it. But I agree with you, Travis. The people that I have encountered that have helped me the most, it's just been some.

Like I just happened to listen to a podcast or I just, someone happened to mention a book or whatever. And I followed the little trail of breadcrumbs that led me to where I am.

Travis Richardson (49:18)
Mm-hmm.

That's what it is. Just follow the breadcrumbs. I love that. Okay, well, let's do a couple. Well, first of all, before I go, we're gonna wrap up here soon. We're gonna go through a rapid fire round. I got some quick questions for you. Before I do that, do you still teach over at Asheville Community Yoga on Tuesdays? Can people engage with you for Qigong over there, or is that, what's going on with that?

Kyra Cavanaugh (49:22)
Yep.

Yeah, it's funny, you you hear Asheville Community Yoga, you might not know there are actually three Qigong instructors over there. So yep, you can go to Asheville Community Yoga and look on the schedule for Kyra Cavanaugh. teach on Tuesdays and I'll be subbing Fairmount on Saturdays as well.

Travis Richardson (49:58)
Very cool. ⁓ Lightning round. Number one, what's your favorite grounding food or go to comfort meal?

Kyra Cavanaugh (50:07)
Awesome, so it's my new favorite thing. You take a sweet potato, you get it soft, however you want, boiled, baked, whatever. And then you add whatever kind of flour you like to use until it becomes like a dough that you can roll out. You roll it out really thin and then put it in a hot pan and it basically makes like a sweet potato kind of tortilla wrap thing. And then just whatever I've got, I throw on in there, but it's just, ⁓ sweet potatoes and me are besties.

Travis Richardson (50:35)
Totally

love that. eat a ton of sweet potatoes, too. That's great. All right. Well, what's one local wellness spot or business or trail that you like to go to for your self-care?

Kyra Cavanaugh (50:48)
Hmm. So Black Balsam Knob is probably my favorite. I will be perfectly honest that since Helene, it's been hard to get out to the trail. I've been doing some group hiking with Swannanoa Valley Museum, highly encouraged. But I'm still, Craggy was my favorite and we can't get there. And Craven Gap was my go-to after work and we can't get there. So I'm holding out hope.

that some of my faves will eventually be rebuilt. But I'll say Black Bustle Nob because that's my fave. I love the views.

Travis Richardson (51:24)
That's one of my favorites too. I've only been once

a year ago, Black Balsam Knob was such a great, you get like the Vistas. If you guys are out there listening, haven't done that hike, you absolutely have to. It's phenomenal. Love it.

Kyra Cavanaugh (51:39)
And I'll give

you a pro tip. I came upon it accidentally. Hike it at the end of the day on the night of the full moon and get there. You'll see the full moon rising and the sun setting. One of my favorite experiences.

Travis Richardson (51:52)
Ooh, protip.

Love that one. Love that one. All right, well, this last one here. Tell us something quirky or strange or weird about yourself. surprise us about you.

Kyra Cavanaugh (52:08)
I'm a really good crier. And I used to be really, it used to be something that I thought I had to hide. It used to be something that I had really mixed feelings about. And now I realize crying is just a way to let it out. And I've learned I don't actually have to know why I'm crying anymore. Crying will just come up on me, especially post-hurricane, and I just let it happen.

And sometimes, a lot of times I don't even really know why, but yeah, so I'm an easy crier. There's a good one.

Travis Richardson (52:43)
the same way I cry so easily. My dad actually, I'm ⁓ a man that was brought up by a father that always told him that crying was okay and he cried in front of me regularly, which is so rare. like have met zero men that had that experience where their dad told them it was okay to cry. So I'm always blessed, but yeah, I'm like zero problem with just letting it rip.

Kyra Cavanaugh (53:09)
That is incredible that you were raised to know that crying was okay. ⁓ that's amazing.

Travis Richardson (53:15)
Yeah,

one of the blessings my dad gave me. OK, well, so this has been an awesome conversation. How can people engage with you? I know you've got a couple resources on your website. I've been to both of them. Do you want to tell us about how people can find you, engage with you? I know that we already talked about they can join your class on Tuesdays. What other ways can we?

Kyra Cavanaugh (53:19)
It's cool.

Yeah, just

reach out to me at either one of my websites. And then there's a whole bunch of free stuff available at my YouTube ⁓ channel called Free Yourself World. ⁓ And yeah, just reach out. I do coaching. also am very available to just if someone has heard something ⁓ that piques your curiosity, literally reach out and I actually will call you and have a free conversation with you just to try to help you out.

I don't do a ton of social. It's funny, have one of my sons said, I don't do social. And he's very young. ⁓ He said, I don't do social for mental health reasons. And I said, can I borrow that one? ⁓ So I don't do a lot of social. I'm a very human to human kind of in-person kind of gal. But yeah, you can reach out to me at either one of my websites or check out some resources on my YouTube channel. So thanks, Travis.

Travis Richardson (54:18)
Ha ha ha ha ⁓

Well,

absolutely. You're a fantastic human being. I've really, really enjoyed this conversation. Quick question though on the coaching. So you do one-on-ones. Do you do ⁓ also coaching for businesses or you're still doing both arms of what you do as like single people and then businesses? Yeah.

Kyra Cavanaugh (54:56)
Yep, exactly. So what I would say is if you're somebody who's either leading a team of people, and it can be any kind of team of people, and or you're someone individually where you're just feeling stuck and you're just not quite sure, maybe you've tried some different things and you're not quite sure, you just feel like you're in a funk, those are the kinds of situations where I can be of most value.

And the coaching that I do is really around helping you identify the kinds of things we were talking about today, Travis, because the more you practice them, the easier they sort of, they become, but to start out can feel really daunting. And sometimes people aren't really sure, like, I don't even really know what to do next. ⁓ Or maybe they're just feeling stuck and ready for a transition. So yeah, you can reach out to me and yeah, and then we just kind of tailor what will work best for the individual.

Travis Richardson (55:50)
Wonderful. Well, I think you'd make an awesome coach. All right. Well, thank you for your time today. We'll talk to you soon.

Kyra Cavanaugh (55:52)
⁓ Thanks Travis. ⁓

Appreciate you and appreciate everyone who's listening. Have an awesome day. Thank you.

Travis Richardson (56:03)
Bye bye.

Travis Richardson (56:04)
Thank you for tuning into the Wellness Nashville podcast. If you enjoyed this episode with Kyra, make sure to subscribe, leave a review and share it with a friend who could use a little inspiration.