#52 - Physical activity in adolescents w/ PhD Giampiero Tarantino

The podcast today is in english because our guest is italian. 

His favorite danish word is 'forlængerledning' (sig det 10 gange hurtigt efter hinanden). 

Giampiero is doing studies on adolescents and physical activity primarily in school settings. 

He has also been playing a lot of rugby earlier in his life (and been very good at it). 

If you would like to hear more about what it is like to do a PhD and play professional rugby, listen to todays episode with GP. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

We do this thing called a cold start so that it's recording right now, but we're just gonna ease into it while Jonas is uh getting himself in place and everything.

SPEAKER_00 0:09

It's a bit of foreplay. I like that.

SPEAKER_02 0:13

It's uh Italian style, I like it. Not too long, not too short.

SPEAKER_01 0:26

Do you know we have a scene in Danish called, which means I have a tot in my throw. Velkom tilt som træner i Krosfordelse, og som godt kunne tænke sig at vide lidt mere om hvad der sker i år uden for boksen. Dagens podcast, den bliver på engelsk. Og det er simpelthen fordi, at vi har fat vores kerre medlemmer.

SPEAKER_00 1:04

You are known as GP. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:06

For a reason it's GP. I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_02 1:12

Yeah, that's pretty good. Yes. Yes, that's one of the best pronunciations. Yes. But I um you practice that, haven't you?

SPEAKER_01 1:23

I remember it. Just a little bit. But uh, but it's it's just uh so welcome to Giampiero Tangino, also known as JP.

SPEAKER_00 1:32

Yes, yes, yes. Thank you very much. Either JP or GP.

SPEAKER_01 1:35

Yes, yes, whatever, whatever. Uh oh, GP, right. Yeah, that's it wrong. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Um so the podcast today is going to be about you, but it the reason that we invited you in is that because you work you work at the Southern University of Denmark. Yes. And um you're doing um studies on young people and physical activity. Yes. That's like the easy the that's the the the the easiest way to to say it very briefly.

SPEAKER_02 2:07

Yes, yes. Like uh my my main focus is on uh how sport and physical activity can influence adolescents' physical and mental health over time. So and in particular in school context. Adolescents, how how old are they? There are different definitions. Let's say between uh 12 and 18-19 is the range uh according to the WHO or other other definitions. That's uh that's the the range, and uh then we have like early adolescence, late adolescence, young adulthood. So um yeah, it's basically that uh that age range, 12 to 1819.

SPEAKER_01 2:45

Yeah. All right, so the teenage years, yes. Okay, that's a quick way to say it. Yes. Um so a quick disclaimer, uh, since it's in in English, there's probably going to be some Tangish. And and we're probably going to forget some words, and then I'm going to tell Jonas, Jonas, what is this word in English or something like that. But I I think it's very I think that's uh that's how it's supposed to be. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's fine.

SPEAKER_02 3:14

I can't help you with that.

SPEAKER_00 3:15

Like uh you understand most Danish?

SPEAKER_02 3:18

Uh I understand a little bit of Danish. Yeah. Um, like uh we we've had this conversation many times. I can uh speak some Danish, but uh understanding is like a different level, like um yeah, different accents that you guys have, uh different uh um words and letters that you don't pronounce. So it's it's difficult to pick up uh something. And to be fair, I can when I am in a conversation, I can either focus my energy on understanding or on answering. Yeah, so I can do both and do both at the same time.

SPEAKER_01 3:56

So and that's not a great way to have a conversation, if I can say so. Yeah. So what's the what's the most difficult sentence that you know?

SPEAKER_00 4:06

We talked about one yesterday. Oh, you did I think I think what was it called in the flu?

SPEAKER_01 4:10

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, you and I did, or did you talk to uh you and I? Yeah, I think resume and I I was just confused.

SPEAKER_02 4:18

But I think my favorite Danish word is uh fulangelang, the the the extension, the chord extension. Of course, my pronunciation.

SPEAKER_01 4:29

Okay, I see I could get it different. Sorry.

SPEAKER_02 4:32

Yeah, yeah. That's my favorite Danish word. Falangaling. Folangalenning.

SPEAKER_01 4:36

I have I have to admit it sounds very nice. It is uh it is like don't think of what the what the word means, just follinger learning.

SPEAKER_02 4:43

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's it's nice sound. Yeah, so yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:47

Yeah, so that's uh somehow you you pick that one word out of all the Danes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, obviously, um you're not from Denmark. No. Can you tell us a little bit about your background, where you're from?

SPEAKER_02 5:04

Yeah, I'm I'm from Italy where I study my um undergrad and master in sports science. And then uh I moved uh to Ireland in uh Dublin to do my PhD. I also did my first uh postdoc uh in Dublin, and then I moved to Denmark uh and I joined uh the University of Southern Denmark and the Danish Center for Motivation and Behavior Science.

SPEAKER_00 5:27

And that's what you call driven.

SPEAKER_02 5:29

That's what we call driven, exactly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:32

I think that's a cool name.

SPEAKER_02 5:33

Yeah, yeah, thank you. It's uh basically we are all researchers that work uh in um uh behavior and motivation science, in particular in the realm of physical activity. So we want to understand how to change people's behavior in relation to different physical activity, different physical activities. So we have like different projects at the moment, and uh yeah, the main the main focus is just understanding human behavior and motivation.

SPEAKER_00 6:04

You also recently did a study on yourself participating in uh a H-Rex.

SPEAKER_02 6:09

Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_00 6:10

So I'm excited to hear more about that as well.

SPEAKER_02 6:13

Yes, yes, like I was um, yeah, it didn't go very well, the IRX. It was like a team uh was a team um competition, but I think I was sick the week before, so it was uh I was struggling a lot. But yeah, I I like numbers in general, so whatever can uh can help me understand uh phenomenon through numbers, I try to do that. Like for one year I had like an Excel spreadsheet where I um collected all the data about myself, like hours of sleep, um type of exercise, uh intensity, like with uh average heart rate and maximum heart rate, uh, RPE, uh everything to see if there are if there were like any particular association between all these things. So didn't find anything interesting. I just found like uh something that in research has been uh has been proven many times. But uh yeah, just I don't know. I like it. It's just it's just fun to do.

SPEAKER_01 7:10

Yeah, I think so. I think that's I think that's very important to have that as a fun thing to do if you're a scientist.

SPEAKER_02 7:16

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But but then I I stopped because I was okay, that's no point. I had I think I had data point for 300 days uh in one year, so it was okay, that's uh that's enough.

SPEAKER_00 7:28

That's a lot of data to go through.

SPEAKER_02 7:30

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But but I but it's also like a way for me to to learn because then when I have all the data and uh I can I can try to learn a piece of code how to analyze the data in a different way. So it's also like a learning process for me to to get new ways to analyze the data. And I you I usually may like uh use statistical uh program and then if I want to try something, okay, let's use the data that I have to try that. Yeah, of course. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:58

We're just gonna uh briefly take a step back because we've heard of your uh background uh when it comes to science, but I want to get to know you better. Yeah. So can you can you tell us a little bit about your you know your life uh up until now when it comes to training or when it comes to I want to study uh sports science and everything?

SPEAKER_02 8:26

Yeah, I think the um so when I started primary school, all my some of my um friends in the first year of primary school went to a football club and play football. Then I asked my dad, can I go to the football club and play and play football with them? And he said, Why don't you try swimming? And then if you don't like it, then you go to football. And I think the reason is that the paediatrician at the time told my dad that swimming was the most complete sport. Okay, yeah, I don't know for what reason or for what, like that was the the idea in Italy. So I I I started to swim and I did it for 15 years. 15, 15, yes, from uh yeah, let's say five years until like maybe 19. Okay, yeah, almost 15 years, and uh but at the same time I was also playing with my friend football in uh in a park. So I was just doing all these things. Uh then after swimming, like I was also competing, but I I wasn't very good. Then I I switched to rugby and I started to play rugby for let's say other maybe yes, 12, 13 years, 15, something like that. How old are you now?

SPEAKER_01 9:37

Uh yeah, that's a big puzzle. But you're saying you're saying you're saying uh quite a few numbers, so I have to I have to understand how so uh in oh god yeah this is the worst year.

SPEAKER_00 9:48

I'm sorry to ask me this question because it is because it's uh a big number next year or it's a big number in three months, so I'm gonna I'm gonna turn 40.

SPEAKER_02 9:58

Oh, you look good. Thank you. Thank you. But don't you worry.

SPEAKER_00 10:03

I think we can all agree that uh most men, at least uh whenever I talk to my friends down here, you're a handsome man.

SPEAKER_02 10:11

Thank you, but yeah, like my body is uh is telling me that it's uh my my my age is actually accurate. So my look might not be uh might not represent my age, but my body is telling me something different.

SPEAKER_01 10:25

Okay, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:26

So yeah, I played rugby and uh actually at the beginning I started to study physics. So I did a couple of years of physics, yeah, but probably I wasn't good enough or I was uh too uh focused on plain rugby and training, and uh and then I got uh interested in uh in sports science and yeah, that's where I started to study sports science. And um yeah, like uh uh and then I was a physical education teacher after I finished my master. I think I did it for almost three years. And then I at what level? Like primary school, secondary school, yeah. Yeah, secondary school.

SPEAKER_00 11:05

Which is uh tilne until well. Uh sorry it's one until is it like the late grade, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:11

Let's say from grade five uh to grade nine, ten.

SPEAKER_00 11:14

So the detail knock all schooling.

SPEAKER_02 11:16

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yeah, yeah, it's from grade five to grade ten. Okay, all right. Uh yeah, and then at some point I wasn't really fulfilled with that uh with the job. Uh it was a great job. Like from a from a human perspective perspective, working with with students is great. Uh, sometimes I miss it. But uh I was driven by uh knowledge and I was curious about understanding things, and then I decided that it was also time for me to try something abroad, and uh yeah, and then I apply to get some money for a PhD, and uh that was it. And and the PhD was mostly on uh the teacher's uh perspective uh towards physical education. Okay, so I just wanted to understand because it was like also some uh personal experience. Uh so I did my PhD, but then I realized that I wanted to shift my focus on adolescents and just study them rather than teacher. Well, they're all uh similar, but yeah, I just focus on the adolescent standpoint.

SPEAKER_00 12:19

Why is that? Why not children or adults?

SPEAKER_02 12:23

Because the adolescence is the period in which a lot of conditions have their onset.

SPEAKER_00 12:31

So there are physical illnesses or becomes physical, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:36

Yeah, so for example, uh in Denmark they did this study with adolescents, 70,000 adolescents, and they follow them for five years. So they measure their um their um there is this questionnaire called strength and difficulties that measure like all the emotional difficulties, the psychosocial difficulties. And then uh they divided these uh the people in like good, moderate, based on the score. So low scores means that you have like more difficulties. And then they have those with very poor, and then after five years, they saw that there were there were like uh high rates of mental conditions in uh uh when they were like 20. So adolescence is a crucial point, and also for like the physical uh physical fitness. There is another study uh which measured the cardiorespiratory fitness in uh in adolescents, and they saw that those with low scores have like more probability to develop diabetes or metabolic syndrome in the young adulthood or the adulthood. So it it's a crucial it's a crucial period from my perspective and like from research perspective in which we can uh intervene to reduce the risk of developing some uh um yeah mental illness and physical conditions.

SPEAKER_01 13:56

Okay, yeah. So this the things that you start in that period of life have a very big impact on life after that.

SPEAKER_02 14:07

Yes, yeah, yes, yes. It's uh it's uh adolescence is a period in which we um develop ourselves as a as a human being and as a um part of a social uh life, and uh because we start at that in that period we start to realize what's going on. We are not children uh anymore, so we have like an understanding on what's happening in uh among us, uh and and it's crucial. And uh it's um it's incredible the extent to which what you do in adolescence has uh influence in your adulthood.

SPEAKER_01 14:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:45

And I think we've all three been through some kind of transformation in those years. Uh you've been practicing martial arts. Yeah, yeah, and I And then you switch to strength training.

SPEAKER_01 14:57

Yeah, I I stopped around the age of 19 actually. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:01

This is very this is very common. Like uh there is a report from the WHO, the World Health Organization, uh, about Danish um uh adolescents. It is called uh physical activity uh facts sheet of Denmark. So basically they measured, it was I think it was published in 2024, they measure the the percentage of adolescents who meet the the guideline for physical activity. Yeah, the guideline uh according to the WHO is that uh people and adolescents should do 150 minutes per week of moderate to vigorous physical activity. So, for example, zone three of above of your heart rate. Okay, so this is cardio training, uh yes, it's just basically like it is basically the the um the intensity. Yeah, it's not necessarily cardio, it's just the intensity. If you think of if you think about like the percentage of heart rate in which you train, so there are like five zones usually, like uh based on the percentage. So moderate to vigorous physical activity, it can be like from zone three above. Okay, so it's uh you need to you need to do something. Anyway, uh what they found in 2024 is that uh let me see if I remember the percentage, like 47% of uh children of 11 years old, 47% met the WHO guideline. At 13 years old, this percentage dropped to 33%. Yeah, okay, and at 15 years old, the percentage dropped to 23%. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:43

Okay. So that's only a quarter of all children, adolescents.

SPEAKER_02 16:48

Of 15 years old children in Denmark that m meet the the WHO guideline. And if you think uh it's pretty common that uh like late adolescent people in late adolescence dropped from a particular sport. Yeah, you stop at 19 doing uh doing that. Uh I stopped swimming at uh that age as well. So it's it's a pattern that is consistent uh in all the world, and and and it is difficult then to find something that can uh uh keep you motivated to do physical activity. Yeah, substitute, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:24

So but in our all three of our cases, we found something else. I played handball, got injured, and then I transitioned to strength training and later crossfit. But you found rugby and you found strength training as well. Um but a lot of people maybe don't find that substitution.

SPEAKER_02 17:44

Yeah, it it really depends what um the reasons that you engage in physical activity because there are like many barriers for you to participate in physical activity, and um if it is a habit, then uh you can uh keep doing that. So when I stopped playing rugby, it was November 2022. Um like I wasn't playing regularly, but I was like training. Uh it was difficult for me to find uh another sport to do. So I tried climbing, I tried uh powerlifting, which I was still doing a little bit. Um, but it wasn't I wasn't satisfied. I had to do that because I knew that it was good for me, but it I wasn't really satisfied.

SPEAKER_01 18:27

What were we what were you missing?

SPEAKER_02 18:29

What do you think you were missing? I think for uh for power lifting I was missing the um the social aspect. Um so when when we think about uh um physical activity and we want to keep uh uh people engaged, there is usually this psychological theory that frame how we behave in physical activity, which is called self-determination theory. So to be motivated, we basically we need three components autonomy, like the freedom of uh choice. Then we have relatedness, the sense of belonging, and then we have uh competence, uh, which is like knowledge or the thing that you know. So I think at that time, if I frame my life uh in that perspective, I was lacking probably um relatedness because I felt I I didn't belong to to nowhere, and also the autonomy, because I didn't have uh the choice to choose. So like I said, okay, powerlifting is something that I know to do, let's let's do it, but I didn't really have the the choice to do that. Okay. I know that this sounds like really research focused, but I can if if you if you think about that, it's uh mostly in um not only physical activity, but in physical activities like uh these three main components keeps you motivated to to do something, and if one is missing, then uh you can struggle a little bit. I don't know how it was for you when you stopped uh doing uh martial arts.

SPEAKER_01 20:02

Yeah, well um I'm not I'm not quite sure either. I think for me it was um I I think I I needed to try something else, and uh you know uh my development wasn't going the way I wanted it to be, and everything. So I think it was was time to do and try and try something else. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um so um I have I have uh we've we've been all over the place and I I lost the track of all my questions here, but um so hang on a second. Um yeah, let's let's talk some uh let's talk about your your research the the research that you're doing right now, yeah. And what what has what's what what has your focus and uh and what you're occupied with at the moment?

SPEAKER_02 20:55

So at the moment I am um working um with uh in a project and uh I'm analyzing some data and I'm uh in contact with some schools. So basically the project that I'm working on now is like a school-based project in which we developed a physical education uh program from one year, and we ask teachers, we train teachers on how to deliver the program over the course of one year, and then we compared that program versus the usual physical education uh class. Okay, yeah. So now I have like a couple of papers that have been uh maybe they will be published, they are under review at the moment, and I'm trying to uh analyze the data from another study in uh in this regard. So basically we we and we have like got good results so far. So yeah, basically that's what I'm doing at the moment. I'm analyzing the data, and in May and June, we are gonna go to the schools again to test the students again to see in uh in a and this was like a two year project. And the tests that we do with the students are like the beep test, the yo-yo test. Then we measure the long jump test, standing log jump, without like uh running, just standing. Then we measure the speed test, balance test, then we do the body composition, we measure the body composition.

SPEAKER_00 22:18

How do you do that?

SPEAKER_02 22:20

There is uh a machine called inbody, yeah, which is uh impedantiometry where you put your feet and your hands and then through some electricity calculate roughly your uh fat percentage and muscle mass. Yeah, uh, then we also measure the blood pressure and the rest resting heart rate and the hand grip strength, and then some questionnaires to measure their their mental uh their mental health or the health-related quality of life.

SPEAKER_00 22:47

So it's actually quite a lot of parameters you're measuring.

SPEAKER_02 22:51

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It usually takes a lot for us to go there and just test the students. Uh, but these I think are good indicators of um of health in general, because we have like questionnaires for mental health-related conditions, and then we have a bunch of physical tests. And it's very interesting to to look at the data and and see um yeah, like how how adolescents and children in Denmark are doing. And we have like uh in this project so far, we have like almost 4,000 students. Okay, good.

SPEAKER_00 23:23

You actually have strong you actually had a friend of mine, uh his class. Yes you went and tested his class. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So you tested them before? You did the one-year program, yes, and then and then we tested them again. Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_01 23:36

So so you're you're testing both the physical and the mental health. Yes. Can you tell us a little bit about the program? Like the this one-year program. What are you focusing on?

SPEAKER_02 23:48

So basically, um, this program is called Fit First, and uh we developed uh we we collaborated with uh the DIF and the DBU in Denmark and uh we asked them to provide us uh lessons, 45 minutes lessons for one sport. So let's say we have 26 sports for each sport. We have like six lessons. Okay, okay, like structured lessons that teachers can actually focus with all the games and all the activity to do. Then we um and we we printed a manual with all these lessons. So then we asked the teachers in the intervention schools to come or we went there to deliver and teach them. Okay, look, this is all the activity, the different sport. Make sure that you uh reduce the rest time, the resting time for your students, make sure that they are uh always uh active and uh that the rest should be active, so they should do something, like try to reduce the amount of time that they spend doing any nothing. Uh and then we ask them to deliver these um these lessons for one year, three times a week for 40-45 minutes. And uh and it was actually quite interesting because like again, we uh I think we we ended up having one on one hundred and thirty-five lessons altogether. So teachers are like and each so for example if we talk about handball, there is a progression from lessons one to lesson six, there is a progression of uh in which you it was an extensive work from uh and so the teachers could pick and choose what sports they would like, yes. Okay, and it didn't really matter which ones they chose, no, okay, because all the sports have the focus on uh being high intensity, yeah, having like uh uh some games to make uh that fun and enjoyable for students and reduce the the the recovery time or like introducing active recovery, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:57

Right, so so actually you didn't make the intervention, you made sure that uh DIF and DBU had stuff that they could do, and then you just measured what happened when they did those classes, right?

SPEAKER_02 26:12

Yeah, yeah, the teach the physical uh education teacher within each school uh delivered the intervention. So we had like I had a colleague, Sophie, that went to the school and observed the classes and measured how the teacher and she also did some uh interviews with some of the teachers to see if they have like difficulties in delivering the intervention. But we ask teachers because like teachers work at school. It's uh if we want something to be effective in the long term, we need to we need to make it feasible. It's pointless for me as a researcher to go to school and deliver an intervention because uh then I'm gone and uh what happened next. And uh and this is like um i it's uh it's a it was a big project. As I said, we have like almost 4,000 students, I think a hundred schools all over Denmark. And uh yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:02

So let's say right now you have some data to analyze and uh review and publish, maybe. Let's say that right now um what the teachers teach specifically is chosen on a political level. Yeah. So do you hope that this uh study might change that? So the politicians like they get presented this um what do you call it, this data. This might change what the teachers on a national level teach in all the schools.

SPEAKER_02 27:42

Yeah, yeah, that's the hope. I know that they changed uh the the curriculum like a few years ago. And teachers, you know, maybe they are tired to to to be told to do something. Uh and I understand, but um this uh this uh program worked. Like I can I can say that that one of the papers is under is under review. Uh but if we look at the yo-yo test, okay. The yo-yo test is like uh we did the one for children and adolescents, it's like a modified version. The original version is like 20 meters, and you need to be at the line at every beep, you know. Beep, beep.

SPEAKER_01 28:19

So for so for people not knowing the yo-yo test, it's it's a running test. Yes. And there's as um you you you do it by sound. So the it has a it has a a beep sound, then you run, and then you have to run and run come back before the the next beep, right? Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_02 28:40

So there are three beeps. At the first beep you start, and the second beep you need to touch the line, yeah and on the third beep you need to be back. Yeah, then you have 10 seconds rest, yeah, and then you do again. Okay, there are several levels, and then you need to run fast and faster, right? Yes, because the beep uh uh the time uh uh shortens. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:58

So and so if I remember correctly, this measures or like gives M a somewhat close to your VO2 max. Exactly, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 29:07

So there is like a high correlation uh between the V the beep test and the VO2 max, which means that you can kind of there are formulas in which you can convert the level into VO2 max because this big test has like 23.8 uh levels. Uh but these formula are not uh uh validated for children adolescents.

SPEAKER_00 29:29

So so in the it's a modified version because of that.

SPEAKER_02 29:33

Yeah, in the adult version it's like 20 meters, you need to run 20 meters. In the children adolescents it's 16 meters. Okay, but the idea is the same. So basically, once you have the level, you can convert that level into meters. And uh in our program with adolescents, so 13 to 16 years old, after one year, those in the intervention improved by 106 meters, which is uh which is a lot, like one go and it is almost three three shuttle runs, yeah, which when you're exhausted is like a lot. Yeah, yeah. So the the the control group in which they did normal physical education didn't change over time, whereas the the intervention improved. And uh I think if you have like strong evidence, then you can uh you can start a conversation with politicians and say, look, or schools, because at the end uh it's uh the one who delivered this um uh physical education, the teachers and look, this works. This is uh uh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:37

And if the children find it exciting at the same time, you know, the tests might not be the most fun, but the uh what they do up until the intervention in the meantime might be great fun.

SPEAKER_02 30:51

Yeah, yeah. The tests uh I can say that they enjoy a lot the the hand grip. Okay, like everybody, they enjoy a lot the blood pressure and the rest resting heart rate because they need to lie down for 10 minutes with the measurements and do nothing for 10 minutes.

SPEAKER_00 31:05

And uh I can see for myself, I would love that. You know, even now I'll I'll it sounds weird, but I love getting those kind of tests, you know. It it also it almost becomes a competition, you know, amongst my peers.

SPEAKER_02 31:20

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like one funny thing that we experience is that uh so with the beep test, uh, usually when you start, a lot of people stop early because they don't bother, like they don't like we not a lot, but like you know, they they run, but then at some point uh uh they stop. But then you see that there are like two, three people at the end and they just uh push themselves a lot because they have this competition. And then uh once I had the there was this guy who did the beep test in flip-flops and he didn't want to stop because his friend was keep going and said, I'm not gonna stop. And he did like uh like almost uh not the last level, but like uh close to yeah, close to in flip-flops.

SPEAKER_00 32:01

It would have almost been better in no shoes. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:04

I don't know. Like we told him, like I said, no no, okay. I would have rolled an angle immediately.

SPEAKER_00 32:11

Yeah, but how uh sorry Mon, but uh let you mention that some of the children just stop early because they don't want to get exhausted. How do you um like what do you do because that can confuses the data that that isn't reliable or measures what they've actually are capable of?

SPEAKER_02 32:32

Yeah, so I'm gonna go a little bit um do you exclude them? No, uh I'm gonna uh I'm gonna like talk like in research terms now. So uh when we analyze data, usually we need to make sure that the data that we have are normally distributed, you know, you know, like the uh the curve. Yeah, because that's uh if you assume that the data that you have represent the population, at the population level, you have like this normal distribution. With physical activity data, what happens is that you don't have this normal distribution, but you have like a lot of people at the beginning of the curve, and then the curve goes down because it's uh it's like that. Like a lot of people don't do enough physical activity or do don't don't physical activity doesn't follow this rule. And it's the same with uh the yo-yo. So you can make uh some uh transformations to the data to make them normally distributed, and and then you can use that. But if you have extreme uh things, then you remove those from the analysis because they are not it's as if like we want to test ourselves to a hundred meter sprint, and then you have uh use and bolt, Tyson Gay doing with us. It doesn't apply to the normal population. We need to remove those because they are not normal, yeah. So that's uh that's why we um we remove them or just we transform the data a little bit to make them and transformation doesn't mean that we manipulate the data, it means that to run certain analysis, we need this structure of the data, otherwise the mathematics doesn't work.

SPEAKER_01 34:07

Yeah, so so just to explain for those who don't know statistics like that. I'm really sorry. Yeah, no, it's it's okay. So it's it's is you you you mentioned the the the use in bold and Tyson K. Yeah, and and um that means that they are outliers, yes, and not lying exactly uh the the they are not placed re with the uh with the rest of the the the test persons. Exactly. And then we also have those that showed up on that day and maybe stopped after the first run because they didn't feel like it. Yes, and and and and so um we are not getting um the the valid results from from that point of view.

SPEAKER_02 34:45

Yeah, you basically it means that you have extraordinary people that are not uh part of the normal population, and whenever you do uh analysis or you need to assume that you have like a normal population, otherwise uh it um it's uh you can get like uh a biased results, like uh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:06

So um we've talked about how it helped them physically, yeah. I think we should talk a little bit about how about how uh what the results were for the mental part. Can you elaborate on on what the the students uh yeah so achieved?

SPEAKER_02 35:26

From the mental so we measured the health-related quality of life, so we saw improvement, but these improvements were not different than the normal physical education uh class. Okay, so we didn't see uh much differences, so there were improvements, for example, in the physical and in the psychological well-being, uh, or uh in the school environment, perception the peers and the parents they were like improvement, yeah, but not different from the and I think the reason is that we didn't create uh we didn't develop this um uh intervention to um we we wanted the the primary outcome was to um uh influence their physical health, so we focus on that mainly.

SPEAKER_00 36:14

So yeah, and I'll um you correct me if I'm wrong, but you know, when they're that young um like you say physical illness is isn't really that present yet. Yeah, so but let's say that you did this intervention on an adult population, many of whom might be ill or in bad physical health, you might see different results in the mental part.

SPEAKER_02 36:43

Yes, so we need to be careful here, like I need to be careful when I explain. So when we talk about mental illness, we are not talking or I am not talking about clinically uh a clinical population. So I'm not talking about people who are clinically or adolescents who are clinically uh anxious or depressed. I'm not talking about I'm talking about uh adolescents or people that can experience early symptoms that can increase the risk of uh developing like uh some uh some uh uh mental illness.

SPEAKER_01 37:17

So yeah, you can you can be depressed without having a depression, right? So like you can be a little bit depressed and maybe have a slight uh increase in uh in well-being. Yes, uh yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:30

Like if you're clinically depressed, uh you don't go to train. That is like uh physical activity can I well cannot do much if you're clinically depressed. You need you need the help of other people, and then what physical activity and exercise can do, it can help you reduce the risk of developing um uh symptoms of depression. Okay, but like uh um yeah, um what was the question again?

SPEAKER_00 38:00

So it was just you know since you didn't see many um improvements on the mental part, uh obviously because the you know the the young population, the adolescents within which you test, you know, they are still transforming a lot, they're in a you know maybe a confusing part of their life. They don't really know themselves. You know when I was fifteen I didn't know shit about my mental health. I don't think about that stuff. Um so I think for a getting a questionnaire in which you have to answer how do you feel they don't know how they feel.

SPEAKER_02 38:44

Yeah, yeah. So the questionnaires are like very simple to be fair. Like it's not uh we ask questions about how they feel, like for example, in the past week have you felt uh sad or have you felt great, or have you uh this question that uh uh adolescents can um uh understand for children. There there are there are of a rather simple, yes, yes. So we we don't go really deep with this uh this question, but they can give us uh an idea of their um an indication, yes, yes, and then we can um I think for the health-related quality of life. Uh one question for the physical well-being was uh have you been able to run well, or have you been able uh all these things? So it's rather simple for them to use the this question, but we didn't measure any uh like mental health conditions, like we didn't use anxiety questionnaire or depression, and again, these questionnaires are not clinical questions, they just measured that the risk of developing this, like um uh yeah, we just use the the the the quality of life, the health-related quality of life, the the experience with their peer within uh within physical education. It's uh it was more uh these questionnaires were more um appropriate for the context in which we um we uh we deliver the intervention so physical education.

SPEAKER_01 40:15

So we're um we're slowly getting to the end of this, uh but so the conclusion of this for now what uh what would that be?

SPEAKER_02 40:28

I think for uh from my perspective, and one another thing that I didn't mention is that uh we noticed so what I did is also I profiled uh students in different fitness categories. Okay, so highly fit, moderate fit, low fit based on their their result on the yo-yo, the speed, and whatever. So I profiled them. Okay, so okay, there are three different profiles, and we noticed that those in the intervention remained in those profile, okay? Okay, and the majority was in the high and moderate fit over time. Okay, so they started in the high profile, in the high fit profile, and they ended up in the high fit profile. Those in the control, let me remember, I think it's uh 76% started in the high fit profile and ended up in the high fit profile. 76, yes, and 20% started in the high fit profile and ended up in the low fit profile. In the control group. In the control group. So there was a decline and we call it a transition into worse profile from this. Whereas in the intervention there was more stability. I think it was like 98% who started in the high fit profile stayed and stayed in the same profile. Okay. Which again, and this is like interesting because it means that uh this intervention works to keep people in that uh, or rather, I would say that normal physical uh education um uh impacts their profile over time.

SPEAKER_00 42:06

But you actually didn't get people from let's say the low fit profile up to the moderate fit profile. You didn't improve them that much.

SPEAKER_02 42:15

Yeah, I think it was like uh four percent that uh improved like yeah. Um it's um yeah, I don't know why. I don't know why. I think it's um it's it in it makes sense because uh you know if uh we saw like improvement in the in the cardiorespiratory fitness and uh and so it makes sense that they stay in the same uh in the same profile. But yeah, it's uh it's an interesting. So what I hope to achieve is that uh we can uh we hope uh we have like a couple of papers now if they get published uh and uh one uh I'm I'm waiting for the the reviewers and it's uh uh I I submitted it in in The Lancet, which is one of the best journal in uh related to to health at the moment. And uh if we get it published, the idea is just to to as I said to start a conversation, not to impose anything, but just to start a conversation, say look, we have like evidence that show this. Um in the next 20 years, what what would we want to achieve from uh do we still want to use physical activity as a prevention tool? Uh if so, then we we need to use physical education also because it's uh it removes all the barriers, it's compulsory. It uh you can uh you can do sport three times a week even if uh you cannot afford to go to a sport club. It's uh so yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:44

Is it uh correctly understood that um the amount of PE, which is a physical education that's a class in the um elementary school, um they only did it once a week. Like they like the students in in the Denmark they only have PE like once a week, right? Yeah. Yeah, so they did it once a week. And they most of them in the intervention group they maintained their level or they gained a better view to max when you measured uh in the Joyo test.

SPEAKER_02 44:14

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But also uh one interesting uh thing that I didn't mention, one other result is that uh the muscle mass. Oh so there was like a significant, strongly significant uh improvement uh in those in the intervention that improved over time compared to the control by half a kilo of muscle mass. Yeah, half a kilo of muscle mass of muscle mass in uh and you might think, okay, but they are adolescence, they are they are improving. Yes, but it didn't happen in the it it they improved uh in the control as well, yes, but the improvement in the intervention was much uh larger, much larger. And it was like half a kilo of compared to the control. It's uh it's not trivial. It's not trivial.

SPEAKER_00 44:57

And that's from one session a week, yeah. Not necessarily during doing uh specific strength training, no, it was a three session a week. Oh, three session a week, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 45:07

Of 40 minutes each. Okay, okay, okay, good three sections a week.

SPEAKER_01 45:10

Because I was I was quite amazed if it if it if it was only like one class. No, no, no, no, no, no. Yeah, okay. So you you also increase.

SPEAKER_02 45:17

And I think in the control they did two. Okay. Two sessions a week. Okay. Yeah. So but I think uh that that's because also the hand grip improved. I think it was uh almost by one kilo more in the intervention compared to the control. I think it's that depends uh on the on the type of uh sports that the teachers decided to use. You know, it's uh because sometimes you can use sports like uh handball or basketball in which you use a lot that the hand grip as opposed to football, in which uh so it it really depends on that. So my my interpretation is that being in Denmark, teachers maybe used a lot more uh like sports like again, handball or uh um uh maybe basketball, like all those sports like that that uh badminton that again you can uh you can improve your uh uh your grip strength. So they they prefer to use those sports uh as opposed to we had like a karate uh or um um kind of Formula One also something like that, ca kayaking. You know, we we yeah we we develop also exercise uh sports like kayaking to do indoor but still keep uh having the the the intensity high.

SPEAKER_01 46:34

Yeah, so um I think it's uh so one thing that I found very interesting here is that we have uh some of the students that don't um perhaps don't feel like uh um par uh participating and and they're very hard to do to get to that uh next level. You you uh you put uh put the students into different kind of fitness levels, right? So um can you imagine doing a study or intervention where you try to see what do we need to do in order to get those in the bottom group to the next level?

SPEAKER_00 47:15

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That would be uh that's also a question that lingers on my mind. Like, how do we catch those who are already really um struggling with their fitness? Yeah. Like how do we catch them and maybe get some better habits uh for their future health?

SPEAKER_02 47:37

Yeah, it's uh I think what this uh this study showed is that we can uh we can target those people. We can we can say okay, who belongs to this group of poor or like low fit, and then uh we can um we can see we we can in the next intervention we can target those people specifically. So now you have data on those people. And and instead of uh uh using resources to deliver the intervention to everybody, then you can focus on those people and see if they if they improve over time. Um yeah, but it would be interesting to uh to compare also results from from other parts of the world uh if they if they have anything like I think that the strength of this uh of this uh project it's not just because I'm working on this, but also because a little biased. Yeah, yeah. A lot of a lot of physical education intervention are uh limited, yeah. Or they use the one particular sport. Okay, let's use high intensity interval training to improve fitness. Okay, you can do that, but then for three months, and then what happened after? Yeah, like you really need to to have a sustainability in that. And uh I think it's uh it's interesting. So it would it would also be interesting to replicate this in a in other country and see if it works. But yeah, you need um resources, money. Um yeah, we'll uh we'll see. Um yeah, yeah, but it's uh it's uh it's an interesting project, one of the many I'm working on now.

SPEAKER_00 49:13

But you mentioned you had uh 26 different sports yeah that was uh like uh functional fitness or crossfit amongst that category or like one of those those 26 sports?

SPEAKER_02 49:28

I think so, but I cannot remember at the moment. But but I think so. I think uh um I think so. I would like to do a research project using CrossFit or functional fitness.

SPEAKER_00 49:41

Because we just you know right now we see like a transition a transition of CrossFit only being uh done in private gyms, uh transitioning to like a uh the Kellaman in Twining.

SPEAKER_01 49:56

I'm not sure. I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_00 49:58

Like uh to uh local sports clubs uh which are cheaper, more accessible for a lot of children instead. Um so it's starting to gain momentum on more like a population level and for the younger um athletes or uh population.

SPEAKER_02 50:18

Yeah, yeah. Like uh the last 12 days I was in um in Uganda for like some work and I went there with uh my pronunciation is gonna be so bad. Oh after skolen.

SPEAKER_01 50:29

Oh yeah, ah, oh, oh after scholar, okay.

SPEAKER_02 50:33

And uh so I was there with like some students and the teachers, and we were talking about uh these things, and they said that from September they are gonna introduce the HIROX as a form of training. Okay, not specifically like CrossFit, like it's a functional fitness, yeah. They have like a gym, they have everything, and they are starting to introduce that on a regular basis and provide some uh uh training session once a week for whoever wants to do that.

SPEAKER_00 50:58

Okay, and uh but not like a specific um like uh curriculum or like you can join for only that thing. Yeah, but it's uh it's an optional uh addition.

SPEAKER_02 51:11

Yeah, I I think students uh uh live there like uh all uh six months or whatever. So they have the opportunity to go to the gym. Uh I think a couple of students told me that they once a week uh they meet and they do CrossFit, a CrossFit training, yeah, uh together. So I think yes, you're right. It's uh it's the trend is is going somewhere, like it's going uh uh outside the the gym and uh and and it and and it's beautiful. Like uh it's uh it's for my research and also from my personal uh standpoint, it's it's great to see that people are uh they move more and they enjoy moving, whatever it is, like we crossfit IROX uh so that you guys have a functional race uh soon. It's um it's a great and probably it is uh um this is like my speculation. It is easier to do that compared to like a sport club, which requires more commitment. You know, like uh you need to go to a sport club, you need to to actively participate, and uh you have like expectations, you have like uh uh this sense of um you have competition, so not many like that. So maybe this is like an interesting uh way to keep uh people or young people engaged in physical activity.

SPEAKER_01 52:33

I think we have to cut off here. Yeah. Uh it was uh very nice and very interesting to having you on the podcast, and uh maybe uh I think I'm gonna send you something that uh that uh maybe you can uh have some inspiration from uh something that uh uh is about the CrossFit and weightlifting on the on the schedule for uh the PE in uh in the world. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So but I'm going to send that to you and then maybe uh um um a a colleague of you can can translate it or something for you.

SPEAKER_02 53:04

Yeah, yeah, I can do that myself. I can try. No, no, that would love that. Thank you very much. Um thanks for having me. Uh yeah, I mean it was nice.

SPEAKER_00 53:12

I I could keep talking a lot more. Uh yeah. I don't know how how long have we done this?

SPEAKER_01 53:18

Uh 53 minutes. Oh wow. It's it always ends up being a whole hour.

SPEAKER_00 53:22

And I'm just like, how the fuck did an hour just pass?

SPEAKER_01 53:26

But uh I'm going to do the outro in Danish now. That's fine. So nu skal se, om jeg hovedet kan finde ud at gøre det her på dansk, for det er sådan helt mærkeligt at skulle omstille. Men tusind tak fordi I lyttede med, og hus på, at I endelig altid kan skrive en mail til os på infosnabla.bindstreuden.dk med Ris og Ros og eventuelt andre rigtig fede emner, som det vi lige har hørt nu her, eller fang os ned i boksen, så vil vi meget gerne høre, om der er et eller andet, I gerne vil have med på podcasten.

SPEAKER_00 53:53

Tak fordi I lyttede med. Tak for da.