Chronic Pain Recovery: Why Letting Go Creates a New You

Real recovery from chronic pain often begins not when you try harder, but when you stop. This solo episode explores the neuroscience of grief and letting go, the physical cost of holding onto unprocessed pain, and the somatic techniques, breathwork, narrative therapy, body-based approaches, that create the conditions for genuine healing. For anyone recovering from illness, loss, trauma, or burnout, this episode reframes what progress actually looks like.

WHAT YOU'LL LEARN:
- Why the effort to push through chronic pain can reinforce the nervous system patterns driving it
- What the neuroscience of grief reveals about physical healing and recovery timelines
- How somatic techniques and breathwork address pain stored in the body, not just the mind
- What the transition from surviving to thriving actually requires at a neurological level

KEY TAKEAWAYS:
- Letting go is not passive — it is an active neurological and somatic process
- Unprocessed grief and unresolved loss have measurable physical costs in the body
- Narrative therapy helps reframe the identity built around chronic illness or pain
- Healing is non-linear; the absence of forward progress often precedes a breakthrough

CHAPTERS:
0:00 Introduction: The Paradox of Letting Go
7:00 Why Trying Harder Can Make Chronic Pain Worse
15:00 The Neuroscience of Grief and Physical Healing
23:00 Somatic Techniques and Breathwork Explained
31:00 Narrative Therapy and Rewriting Your Recovery Story
38:00 From Surviving to Thriving — What That Shift Takes
42:00 Key Takeaways and Closing

Subscribe wherever you get podcasts. New episodes weekly. | NewNormalBigLifePodcast.com

Disclaimer

BeRootedIn
RootedIn: Magnesium Cream. Shop Now With My Affiliate Link

Ready Hour & My Patriot Supply
Best price on US-based preparedness and long-term storable food. Shop now with my affiliate link.

DrStellaMD Marketplace
Immune-boosting Premium all-natural supplements Telehealth + wellness consultations Code NNBL 5%

Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.

Transcript

Copy

Owning Accountability

SPEAKER_04 0:00

Then I would hear, you know, that that that those do not recover, that those who do not recover are those that are constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves. And I thought, that's me. That's why I'm not getting it, because I'm just incapable. I was made this way and I can't get it. But the the reality was that I was unwilling to be held accountable. I was unwilling to step into the ring and say, I need to take some action in the direction that I'm wanting to move in. I was just hoping that something outside would come into me, possess me, and and make my life into what I wanted it to be, right? So that living out of accountability requires some degree of willingness to be held accountable in the first place.

SPEAKER_03 0:39

Yeah, and I would say part two, maybe to add to that, is just if you notice that you're blaming a lot of people, so if you're holding a lot of other people accountable for how you're feeling, how you're doing in life, why you didn't get to where you want to get, and so forth and so on, that's usually a pretty good indicator that that you're not really owning your part, that you're you're you're looking to others to be responsible for what's working or what's not working in your life. And that usually I'm not in accountability when I'm

Show Opening And Guest Intro

SPEAKER_03 1:12

doing that.

SPEAKER_01 1:12

Hi friends, welcome to the New Normal Big Life Podcast. We bring you natural news and stories about nature that we hope will inspire you to get outside in adventure, along with a step-by-step plan to help you practice what you've learned and create your own new normal and live the biggest life you can dream. I'm your host, Antoinette Lee, the Wellness Warrior. Greg Vorst and Michael Nolan, co-founders of Embodied Recovery, are revolutionizing trauma and addiction processing and recovery by challenging conventional recovery and treatment. Their approach views suffering not as an endpoint, but as a profound invitation to soul growth, blending psychology, 12-step principles, and a Korean Taoist practice of breath work, movement, and meditation that cultivates inner peace, vital energy, and alignment with life, uh natural flow, integrating body, mind, and spirit for holistic healing and growth. They empower individuals to reclaim purpose, peace, and joy through honest self-reflection and nervous system regulation. Recovery shifts from abstinence to embodied living. Their empowered living teachings offer practical tools for trauma healing and emotional resilience, inspiring uh

Origins Of Embodied Recovery

SPEAKER_01 2:30

uh hope amid life challenges. Stick with us for a transformational message from Vorst and Nolan. Let's dive into today's restorative topic with Greg Vorst and Michael Nolan, co-founders of Embodied Recovery. Greg Vorston, Michael Nolan, welcome to New Normal Big Life.

SPEAKER_03 2:48

Thank you so much. Yeah, thank you. We're excited to be here.

SPEAKER_01 2:52

You're the first duo I've had, so this is exciting.

SPEAKER_04 2:56

Yeah, well, this is not the first time we've heard that. So we never go alone. No.

SPEAKER_01 3:02

It's nice to have a buddy. I can't so would each of you take a moment to just tell us what led you to this to this kind of work.

SPEAKER_03 3:11

My God. So I early life I was in the performing arts and and I enjoyed that quite quite a bit, but went through something of an inner crisis in my my own need for healing that made it harder for me to stand up on stage and perform. There was just a part of me that needed tending to, and I didn't really know, I didn't know how I was going to do that for myself. And then later it became a question of how can can I make my livelihood in this this field of of helping and healing arts. And at any rate, Michael and I met about eight or nine years ago, and we found ourselves working in a treatment program together. We were blessed by the grace of God that the program fell apart, and Michael and I had to find a a way to carry on the work that we were doing. And out of that crisis was really born the mandate for embodied recovery, and and some of maybe the shortcomings of the programs that we worked for really awakened in us the sense of need that we had to do something vitalizing in this in this treatment space. And and so, and then my recovery journey has been one, I was a spiritual aspirant, so I was alive in that work, and I continued to have these huge dips, like ups and downs. And uh it wasn't really until I got into recovery that a lot of my spiritual searching sort of deepened and found some ground, and my life really took on the tenor that it has in this last decade

Michael’s Story Of Descent And Hope

SPEAKER_03 4:40

or so.

SPEAKER_01 4:40

So well, those are really beautiful reasons to get into this line of work.

SPEAKER_04 4:46

Yeah. Yeah. Uh and then I guess for me, I I grew up the son of an NFL coach, and so we moved around a lot, new places every few years. And so it created this need to kind of really ingratiate myself in a social group rather quickly while still knowing that I was likely going to leave soon. I found that drinking and using was a really nice, easy way to connect with people in superficial ways that didn't make it hurt so much when we had to leave again. And then I found that I was really good at using. I found that, you know, in so many areas in my life, I felt like I wasn't a great student or I wasn't a great athlete, or I wasn't, you know, kind of uh living up to the expectations that I had set for myself and in my substance use, it it almost felt like this was something that made sense to me. I had a mission and a purpose, and unfortunately, the consequences of that was total destruction of my life. Things did not go very well. I didn't have the highs that Greg had before the lows. I kind of went down, stayed down, and then remained down, and you know, just experienced a lot of difficulty, a lot of consequences, but was fortunate enough to land in a treatment center. You know, I had been to four or five different treatment programs, but the one that I went to, I I I stayed at. For whatever reason, there were just a series of experiences along the way where I felt okay enough to stay, I felt capable enough to stay, I felt willing enough to stay. And then after having a few months of sobriety under my belt and really taking responsibility for my recovery, it felt like this was something that made sense to me. I knew what it was like to destroy my life, and I was getting excited about learning about recovery, and I wanted to learn more, and I wanted to put myself in a position, like Greg said, to be able to make a living being of service and helping others however I could. And so that started my journey in maybe 2010. I got sober in 2008, 2007, and then, you know, uh got credentialed, started working as a counselor, and then like Greg said, we we met eight or nine years ago, you know, working at a treatment program and just had some experiences where we thought there's there's such a a need for clinicians to explore the ways in which they could implement the values and principles of recovery into their own life in order to be able to be of service to the clients that are coming in saying that they need help. And there are so many clinicians, and and this isn't to put anybody

Lived Experience Versus Clinical Expertise

SPEAKER_04 7:15

down, but just that because they've they've got their degree, that they're the expert, that they're gonna fix the person that's coming in that's needing the help. And we really found that our lived experience of the humility, the surrender, the accountability that was necessary for transforming our own lives was what was enabling us to show up in a supportive way in the in the clients' lives. So, yeah, that that started the the groundwork for what embodied recovery was to become.

SPEAKER_01 7:42

Okay, you guys have already made me feel like I've been to church. I want to say hallelujah. That's right, hallelujah. Well, what an amazing journey. I love when clinicians have had, although, you know, I'm sure you you probably look back and say, well, I wish I didn't have to have that journey, maybe. But I love when clinicians have that lived experience of the people they seek to help. You just connect to the issues and the challenges so much more deeply.

SPEAKER_04 8:17

It's, you know, it's it's been it's been an asset. I'd say earlier in my career, it was more of an asset than it is now. Yes, I can certainly understand those low places, and yet what we found to be more engaging and and inspires more connection in the work is the application of the recovery. So, you know, Greg doesn't have an experience in addiction, and yet he's worked a solid program of recovery that allows him to be able to be of service and really help guide clients in their recovery journeys. And so the background doesn't need to be the same, the pain doesn't need to be the same, but there was enough of it to say, I need to do something different. And then starting from that place and really working a solid program of recovery is what's been so such an asset for us.

SPEAKER_01 9:04

Absolutely.

Suffering As A Portal To Growth

SPEAKER_01 9:05

So, how do you help people to see that suffering is a portal to soul growth?

SPEAKER_03 9:13

Yeah, yeah, wow. Uh what a what a rich question. Well, I you know, going back to my own journey, I was I was plagued and beset by a number of physical challenges, and and I really in my own path, I sought all of these healers and various medical clinicians and different people, and I was giving money this way, that way, and trying this thing and that thing and that thing. And and eventually I awakened to this that that there was a there was an illness in me and a yearning in me that was seeking something more. And ultimately that came through my connection with God. And and and and that really soothed that part of me that was so ill, that was so struggling. And so, you know, if you were to tell a client that's first coming in the doors, you know, this diagnosis isn't really the issue, they might go right back out the doors. But but as somebody who's showing up to be of service to them, I have that opportunity to model some of those loving qualities, those things that I was seeking, that loving presence that I needed when I was ill. I get a chance to be a stand-in for that without telling them, hey, the deeper issue is really this. And then I can support them on the way to develop some skills. But but ultimately it's not about skills. Ultimately, that person is going through a crisis that's purposive and it's gonna lead to some deeper connection and their soul's journey with God or with higher power or whatever you want to call that, whatever somebody's comfortable naming that. There's a purpose on that journey, and and it's it's really the soul's calling, it's an opportunity for that individual.

SPEAKER_04 11:01

And so to speak to this notion of suffering being a portal to transformation, and in 12-step communities, they have this notion of the gift of desperation. And and so, which sounds strange, why would desperation be a gift? But what happens in that place of desperation is that I've I've now said I'm willing to get out of my own way. I know that I don't have all the answers, I can't control everything the way that I've tried to for so many years. My way isn't working, and so I'm willing to surrender to something else. Now, in 12 steps, higher power is is is a big part of that surrender process, but just to surrender to the structure of AA, right? Like I'm willing to go to meetings, I'm willing to get a sponsor, I'm willing to work steps is is a huge step forward in that journey. And so what suffering offers is this opportunity to reflect and and consider that there might be a different way.

SPEAKER_01 12:01

So, what does it mean to recover? Not just a life, but a sense of purpose and peace and joy. That really resonates with me because after recovering from my TBI, I was looking for purpose, peace, and joy.

SPEAKER_04 12:15

Yeah. Yeah. You know, you it's it's fun saying new normal big life, right? Like that, uh it's it's not like a new normal striving to get back to what was. Oh yeah. Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_03 12:30

Uh and and yeah, go ahead. Well, no,

Beyond Stages Of Change

SPEAKER_03 12:33

you're just making me think about so in the in the treatment space, uh, the popular model kind of in Western medicine is the the it's the six stages of change. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And just speaking to the new, I'm going to connect this to the new normal big life and this notion of peace. It's it's pretty underwhelming, the six stages, because you go through in this model, you go through pre-contemplation, contemplation. So these are all contemplative stages where you're not doing anything, and then even preparation. And then eventually you finally get into action, which is the fourth stage. Fifth stage is just maintaining, maintaining, and then the sixth stage, the most depressing, is relapse. And so what you know, what we're really talking about in our recovery journey is one in which we would transform. We would not just go back to the old and have it be a little bit better. So your big normal, your new normal big life is a perfect example of that. And the gifts of that would would not just be I'm just sort of hanging on and maintaining, but that I'm transforming the one that I am. I'm growing into a new fuller expension experience of my being, and that's going to contain things like peace and well-being and radiant joy and and all of these things. So I'm not just surviving the problems from before with a new skill set. I'm being made new through this process.

SPEAKER_04 14:00

And I'm embracing this new normal. So I'm I'm really owning that this is my new normal rather than continuing to fight against the past and being angry that the past was what it was. I'm saying that that the only time in which I'm able to do something is right now. And so, what is it that I want for tomorrow to become? Do I want it to be another day of anger and upset that yesterday was like it was? Or am I wanting tomorrow to offer me something different? And so, yeah, the recovery is this magical experience that people can have of taking such wholehearted accountability for what's in their capacity to change and to make different. And it's never external circumstances as much as it's my relationship to the circumstances that have been so troubling. And so my relationship to those things gets to evolve and change and grow. And that's what ends up changing my personality, my character, and the way that I show up in life.

SPEAKER_01 14:59

Well, you before someone gets to that point, let's say someone with addiction, and I was just working with someone this morning who is helping a veteran who's struggling with addiction, and they keep getting DUIs, and then they get off, and then they get another one, and we're all brainstorming what what can we do, say,

Defining Rock Bottom And Denial

SPEAKER_01 15:24

propose to help this person see that they need a new path? That that's before you hit further rock bottom, do something different. How do you get someone to realize that, dude, you're already at rock bottom? You know? That's right.

SPEAKER_00 15:46

That's right.

SPEAKER_04 15:47

Yeah, yeah. You keep digging, you're gonna end up on the other side of the planet. Yeah. You know, they they say that uh your bottom is only as deep as when you decide to stop digging, right? And for this individual, it seems like the the DUIs aren't getting the message across, another DUI isn't getting the message across, a whole bunch of people telling them how much that you know they're loved and and how much you all are are worried about them isn't necessarily enough. And so uh this isn't intended to be a depressing message that there is no right thing to say. It's just at a certain point the individual needs to check in with themselves when is enough going to be enough. And we've had people that have had, you know, their their fifth DUI was when they said, okay, now it's enough. I I worked with someone years ago who, you know, had lost a business, lost a relationship, relationships with his kids, and yet one day he's smoking meth in his car, burns his uh steering wheel, and and that was like the eye-opener for him. Like, oh my god, what am I steering? Steering wheels, right? And like, I burnt my steering wheel.

SPEAKER_03 16:54

So we worked with somebody else who died twice, literally, medically, was was pronounced dead, came back to life on the table. Those things often don't end up being enough, sadly, in some cases, because the power of denial is so strong. There was an individual I knew who actually had a very promising acting career and was doing extraordinary things in the world when he wasn't high on heroin. And the doctors let him know he was a a really accomplished dancer too, and he made a lot of money doing it. They let him know that he was they were going to take his legs. They had to because the the tar and the heroin had burned through all of his veins. He didn't say, like, is there a way that we can turn this around? Is there anything I can do? He his question actually was, where would I put the needle then? And so that gives you some insight into how how deep the hole can go in terms of my denial if I want to keep digging. And that's true for people, you know, we're talking about this in in addiction, but it's also very true for mental health. We can we can go on that same journey of denial, and those forces of denial can keep us unaware of the basic things that would preserve my health and my life and so forth and so on, or the DUIs, but but there's a deeper layer of denial, and that's the denial even beneath that, which is the denial of the love of that presence or of God that's there. And so sometimes the the DUIs and the drinking and the using or my depression or and so forth and so on act as a shield that keep me away from that love. And and I might be so frightened of that love that I'll hold on to these other things as a means of never returning to it.

SPEAKER_04 18:44

So it's almost like the the misery that I'm familiar with is more comfortable than the unknown misery of change. And I and I build up that misery in my mind and say that it's gonna be too much. I'm not able to. This dysfunction, at least I can tolerate because I know what's coming and I know it probably won't last long. So I've resigned myself to that. But again, it's just this really powerful mechanism of denial that keeps me out of accountability for the change that I could grow into. I just say, well, I would, but I can't. Others could.

SPEAKER_01 19:15

Very powerful. After this short break, we'll talk about the importance of honesty as a health practice.

SPEAKER_03 19:24

Yeah, that's a great topic.

SPEAKER_01 19:25

When

Honesty As A Health Practice

SPEAKER_01 19:26

you're planning an adventure camping, rafting, RV, or mountaineering, you'll need quality food with sufficient vitamins, minerals, and nutrients to fuel your adventure. My partner Ready Hour is here to help you ahead of time. Ready Hour has a long history of providing calorie-rich, reliable, and delicious nourishment for life's unexpected situations and adventures. They're part of a family of companies that have served millions of people like you for decades. My family and I use Ready Hour products for camping, mountaineering, and disaster preparedness for five years now. They're not just reliable, they're also your affordable option too. Long-term storable food shouldn't break the bank. That's why they have great sales and payment options for you. It's your bridge to safety and survival when you're on an adventure. So make your next decision, your smartest decision. Be ready for adventure tomorrow today. Trust ready hour. Ready to shop? Use my affiliate link in the show description. So, how does honesty with ourselves and others become a health practice?

SPEAKER_04 20:30

Well, yeah, well, I guess I just want to share one of the things that was told to me when I first got into treatment was that the owner of the program, Dr. Barry Rosen, he was a wonderful man. He had this way of speaking truth in a way that was really cutting, but also could be received with love. And so he said, Mike, you're no better than anyone else. You're just a bottom-dwelling dope fiend and a pathological liar. And I thought, like, you know, it just like rocks me. And I'm thinking, like, who is this guy? What a jerk. I just met you like two days ago, and then this is what you're putting on me. And he said, if you want to get well, you need to stop lying to yourself and everybody else. And so the next time you go to a meeting and introduce yourself, I want you to say, My name is Mike. I'm an addict and a pathological liar. And I thought, this guy's crazy, that's not going to do anything. Why would I do that? But again, it was just there was enough willingness in me to try it. And so I got up at the next meeting, I said it, people chuckled, I felt embarrassed, and I thought, I'm never doing that again. But what it did do was it got me to look at how dishonest I had been and consider what would it be like if I tried being, I I had experienced the consequences of my dishonesty over and over and over again, and and it seemed like they just kept piling up and getting worse and worse. And if I'm honest, people might not like what I have to say, and it might be uncomfortable and difficult, but I know uncomfortable and difficult. And so let's just see if if this can work in my favor. And if not, I can throw it in his face and say, see, I told you you were wrong, it didn't do anything. But it it completely changed the trajectory of my recovery journey when I started taking accountability of my choices in real time and saying, look, I know I told you that I had a salad for lunch, but really I had a burger, right? Little things, not that big of a deal, right? But I needed to start practicing rigorous honesty every day. And when I did that, I I felt this sense of comfort in my existence in the world. I didn't have to hide, I didn't have to pretend, I didn't have to manage and manipulate relationships and what people thought of me, but that I was able to just rest in a degree of peace, knowing that even if they disagreed, even if they didn't like it, even if it was a challenging truth that I had to communicate, I was growing up the capacity to deal with that difference. And that and that I was speaking a truth that wouldn't make me have to, or put me in a position to cover things up and to to to keep on the manipulation and then live out in hiding and and continue leaning into this denial to keep me safe. So uh for me it was it was a game changer. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:16

Yeah, you know, I believe the soul craves integrity. Doing the right thing even when no one's watching, even when no one will know that you you're not doing the right thing.

SPEAKER_04 23:27

Yeah. That's so true, right? That the soul craves integrity. We can see what it's like when people are are living in less than authentic ways, when people are living out of integrity in their relationships because it just it looks exhausting. People are tired and they're

Recognizing You’re Out Of Accountability

SPEAKER_04 23:45

overwhelmed, and little things can can get under their skin and frustrate them to no end. And so, but yeah, when I can live in a place of integrity, I feel a sense of of capacity, capability, self-efficacy as I move through life. I don't have all the answers, you know, like life still gets difficult and life does what it does, but at least I know now what I can do to take care of myself in the face of life, getting lifey.

SPEAKER_03 24:13

Yeah. I I would offer too, in my journey, so I I also struggled a lot with dishonesty, and there were a lot of subtle ways. And a lot of my dishonesty was to shield me from the shame of what was true. And so you know, I would be dishonest about my finances or dishonest about one thing or another. And part of my healing journey was to really understand that not all shame. So in present culture, there's this tendency to want to say all shame is bad. And but but if I were shameless and would do unconscionable things, that wouldn't be good. And so there's something really constructive that can help me have a right relationship with God and with an authority in life, if I can feel the presence of shame when I'm out of alignment. And the way that I can feel that presence, which keeps me connected to my higher power, to my creator, is by owning when I'm out of alignment. But once I start this deceptive process of hiding, of calling it by another name, by prettying it up, by you know, doing all these subtle ways, then then I'm no longer in accountability. And in the rooms, they that they say to us, uh, we're as sick as our secrets. So we're as it we're as ill as our secrets, the things that we harbor that we hide. And and then, you know, once I'm out of accountability, if if anybody's out there struggling with mental health or addiction, if you're out of accountability, you're in the danger zone. Red flag should be coming up everywhere. Because what's coming in the future is is likely going to be a further iteration of what was damaging in the past. You know, you're you're gonna experience greater and greater consequences. And so that accountability really and that honesty really helps me remain integrity and keep that peace that we were talking about earlier. Uh I can feel peaceful even that I screwed up, that I made a huge mistake.

SPEAKER_04 26:14

Yeah, and there's something so cleansing about being seen in the truth of the shame that I experienced for my choice rather than hiding the choice that I made to protect from feeling ashamed. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:27

How does one recognize when they're out of accountability? What are some tips if if they're not familiar with this concept?

SPEAKER_04 26:39

Yeah, that's an interesting question. Well, I guess uh with that question is the assumption that I've at least opened myself up to be held accountable by some authority, by some mentor or guide or friend or loved one to say, look, these are the things that I'm struggling with, these are the things that I'm working on. If you see something, say something, right? Like if if it looks to you like addiction is happening, trust your gut and speak to it. If it looks like I'm sliding back, please, you know, just let me know. Don't be afraid to tell me what it is that you

Regulating The Nervous System

SPEAKER_04 27:12

that you're seeing. But if if I haven't even had those conversations, if I'm just imagining that I can figure it out on my own, right? Or I did this for a long time. I was going to to 12-step meetings and not doing anything and sitting in the meetings and thinking, why isn't my life changing yet? I'm here. Like, why is nothing changing? And then I would hear, you know, that that that those do not recover, that those who do not recover are those that are constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves. And I thought, that's me. That's why I'm not getting it, because I'm just incapable. I was made this way and I can't get it. But the the reality was that I was unwilling to be held accountable. I was unwilling to step into the ring and say, I need to take some action in the direction that I'm wanting to move in. I was just hoping that something outside would come into me, possess me, and and make my life into what I wanted it to be, right? So the living out of accountability requires some degree of willingness to be held accountable in the first place.

SPEAKER_03 28:12

Yeah, and I would say part two, maybe to add to that, is just if you notice that you're blaming a lot of people, so if you're holding a lot of other people accountable for how you're feeling, how you're doing in life, why you didn't get to where you want to get, and so forth and so on, that's usually a pretty good indicator that that you're not really owning your part, that you're you're you're looking to others to be responsible for what's working or what's not working in your life. And that usually I'm not in accountability when I'm doing that. And then the other thing would be you can just look at your life and see if things are working out. You know, people who have a high degree of accountability, they do so because it's awesome. It's like, you know, you you know what what your day is gonna feel like more or less. You know there are certain things you can count on in your your inner experience and your physical experience and your emotional and spiritual experience because you're accountable to those things. So it you get to live in the fruits of that. And so if your life isn't working, it's probably a and you're blaming people, it's a really good sign that you have some accountability issues.

SPEAKER_01 29:21

Those are two really easily implementable tips that people can start practicing today. I love it. So, how can nervous system regulation change how we process trauma and addiction?

SPEAKER_03 29:33

If if somebody has gone through a very traumatic experience, and I think this would be true for a lot of people who are mood altering and doing substances, um, exp especially the really extreme ones, it's in all likelihood their nervous system in is in such a is is frayed in such a way that it could be hard for them to have much r capacity to be relational with life. So I can be easily overwhelmed by sensations, or conversely, I could be frozen and out of touch. So if you think on like a really sort of a uh two-polar sides, there's kind of numb to life, which can be one setting of my my nervous system, or flooded. And when I'm flooded, I can't really have I'm connected to the experience, but it's it's so overwhelming to me that I can't do anything meaningful with it. And if I'm numb, I'm tuned out. So what I'm looking to really experience is this middle ground. I'm looking to grow up this middle ground where I can have enough centeredness and enough presence and enough regulation within my nervous system that I can be in touch with life but not be overwhelmed by it. So I'm in touch, but there's a spaciousness about it. And it that takes time to cultivate that, and that's why we do a practice each morning. It's an ancient tradition from Korea and it's called kuksundo, and it's a lower diaphragmatic breathing practice with also some yoga and stretching and things of that sort. But what it helps an individual do is it helps entrain their nervous system to the parasympathetic relaxation response. So now, if if I was really strung out before, now my body knows, okay, it's safe inside. You can go into rest, digest, and you can start to even get into alpha brain waves, which means, oh, now I can see possibilities. And now I can use creativity on my behalf, but I can feel a degree of at easeness, which if I am working on substance use, or let's say I'm working on trauma, part of

Recovery In The Body, Not Just Head

SPEAKER_03 31:45

my healing process is going to be to touch some of those places where there was hurt. And and now I can do it where I'm anchored in such a way that there's enough of a loving presence cultivated in me and enough well-being in my nervous system that I can touch those places without being overwhelmed. And I can start to bring goodness to those places. And then for the addict, I I might be for the first time, my my whole orientation has been something outside me makes me good. Something outside me is gonna make me feel okay. Well, now what I'm starting to train myself to experience is as I do this practice, I make me feel good. The good is within, the good is within me, and moment by moment I can practice that, and then I can stretch that out throughout my day so it covers my day. And in time, when I become studied enough, it becomes a way of being, it becomes the new set for my nervous system.

SPEAKER_04 32:41

So the practice allows me to create a space within myself where there's there's such a comfortable home base, right? And and so if I'm in that state of fight or flight and my nervous system is just so kind of hotwired by life, it's gonna be really hard for me to face some of these traumatic experiences of the past or these difficult relationships or uh work on the things that I want to because it's it's it's like an open wound that's so sensitive that that it doesn't have enough protection to heal to begin to kind of work on. And so what the sorry, what the what the breath work practice allows is for me to to cultivate this place of solidity and grounding and safeness within myself so that when I when I do begin to go back to some of these hurts from the past, I I know where that safety within self resides. Right. And so uh and a popular practice these days is something like EMDR, where you know it's using different techniques to reprocess trauma, but a big part of that is creating that experience of safety within self before I go back. And so what the sundo practice is, is is that on a daily, consistent basis, I've made it into a practice. So now I don't have to go to an EMDR session to experience some relaxation, but my day is is grounded in that sense of peace.

SPEAKER_01 34:12

Those were two great nervous system regulation techniques. I love it. Before we cover the next topic in this episode, I want to introduce you to the adventure sports lifestyle with what I call a micro story about an adventure that I've had. The adventure sports lifestyle and my deep connection to nature is essential to my good health. So here's the story. When I go on an adventure like archery fishing or kayaking, I'm moving my body in rhythm with my breath and working in harmony with the natural world, like reading and running the river, for example. An adventure sports lifestyle leveled up my good mental and physical health. I did that. I hope this inspires you to get outside and adventure alone with friends or with the people you love most. Now, back to the show where we're talking

How To Connect And Next Steps

SPEAKER_01 35:00

with Greg Forst and Michael Nolan about recovery happening in the body, not just in your head. So, what does it mean to live recovery in the body, not just in the head?

SPEAKER_04 35:13

Yeah, yeah, that's great. I guess with an idea like that, what comes to my mind is that there are so many treatment programs. There's a ton of resources. If there are people that are out there in your audience that are struggling with mental health and addiction, there there are resources, there are people out there that are willing to support you. And in our experience, working at many of these programs, they had good curriculum, they had good psychoeducational materials and worksheets and you know, uh lists of skills that people can implement. What we found though was that it was almost like now that you're done with treatment, take your binder of skills with you through life and don't forget to open to the right page when life gets difficult. And that could certainly work, but our sense was that we wanted people to begin putting these things into practice consistently every day so that their experience of life shifts rather than my experience of life is the same and I just need to remember the right skill. And so when when I can begin to engage in a practice like sundo or engage in a practice like rigorous honesty, then I'm shifting my relationship to life in such a way that I am now living out the values and principles of recovery and more in alignment with my own values, that I want to be respectable, I want to be honest, I want to be a person of integrity, I want to be compassionate and understanding. But when I'm living in such an externally focused way, what ends up happening is I'm trying to live for what I imagine other people want from me, and then I go completely off-scene, I'm no longer in the relationships that I say are so meaningful to me, right? And so living out recovery or embodying recovery would look like putting these recovery practices or these recovery skills into practice on a daily basis so that they just become normal for me.

SPEAKER_03 37:06

Also, if we're speaking about on the level of the body, then then our our felt experience of living in our body becomes more easeful. So, you know, prior to doing a practice like Sundo, many of us are very constricted in our breathing and our way of being. So our life force has may may have been hampered or shut down. But when when we do this kind of inner work, we're we're retooling our psyche, and that has a really powerful effect on our lived experience in our body. So it just feels better to be me each and every day when I practice these things. And then that really becomes a way of being. It's not like Mike was saying, we're moving away from just a skill set that I want to do when a crisis occurs into a way of being such that really my recovery r touches my character, it touches my identity, and it just like it's it's changing me psychologically, it's changing me physically. And the way that my nervous system operates, my in-touchness with all the feelings and the felt sense of my body, all of that becomes awakened and we experience more aliveness. It's a truly vibrant state to be living in my integrity and from a place of of recovery, and the body really likes it.

SPEAKER_01 38:29

So, how can listeners find a practitioner in their area or connect with you for the Empower it Living Teachings?

SPEAKER_04 38:38

Yeah, yeah. So they can find us online. Our website is embodiedrecovery.com, and then we also have a nonprofit organization that we created a few years ago called Malos. So that's uh M as in Mary E-L-O-S, and then the website is meloscenter.org. And through the nonprofit, people can tune into our teachings that we do on the last Friday of every or um the last Wednesday of every month. So we do those in

Closing And Listener Invitation

SPEAKER_04 39:05

person here in Campbell at the treatment space. But if people aren't in the area, they can join us on Zoom. And then the the Sundal practice as well, there's some avenues for people to join us for the practice. We have smartphone app, the embodied recovery app that people can check out. It's got a you know a recovery tracker and some of our content that we've created and meeting finders, a lot of different things in the app. But we're certainly accessible. People can find us online through embodiedrecovery.com or malocenter.org.

SPEAKER_03 39:32

And then just a couple other things I would add into that is uh we do a Monday night dance event, Elixir Dance, that we host as well. And then podcasts like these, but also our Empowered Living Teaching Series are all available via podcast on the website. And then in the weeks to come, it might be as much as a month out, so maybe when this is released somewhere down the road, we're also gonna have an introductory video available online for Sundo. And so for those of the listeners out there that might be wanting to find a way to enhance their nervous system, their experience being in the body, this could be a real resource.

SPEAKER_04 40:10

Oh, and then anybody that's in this area in October, we're uh we're having uh Sundo master Jin Mok fly in from Korea. He's gonna be hosting a four-day workshop early October. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:22

Wow, that sounds so incredible. And all of the links will be in the show description. Thank you so much for joining me today on New Normal Big Life.

SPEAKER_03 40:32

Oh, thank you so much. This was a real delight. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:36

Until next time, friends, I'm Antoinette Lee, your wellness warrior here at the New Normal Big Life Podcast. I hope one day to see you on the river, in the backcountry, or in the horse vine living your best life. Struggling with health problems or seeking natural health solutions, we've got you covered. Don't miss our latest podcast episodes, exclusive blog posts, and free ebooks packed with life-changing wellness tips. Be sure to help others find this great information by leaving us a star rating and a review wherever you get your podcasts. Magnesium, an unsung hero, fuels over 300 bodily reactions from heart health to stress relief. Magnesium expert Natalie Girado, founder of Rooted In, found freedom from anxiety, insomnia, and pain through topical magnesium. It transformed my life, she said, inspiring her mission to share this mineral's power. Cardiologist Dr. Jack Wolston calls magnesium essential for heart health, helping regulate rhythms, blood sugar, and reduce inflammation. Up to 80% of people may be deficient at facing issues like depression, migraines, insomnia, or muscle crap. For women over 40, magnesium eases menopause symptoms, boosts energy, and supports bones. Choosing the correct type of magnesium matters. Real stories, Natalie's in mind, highlighted some facts. After interviewing magnesium expert Natalie Dorado, I became a customer. I was already a magnesium fan, having been told by two cardiologists to take magnesium for a minor heart arrhythmia. Natalie explains it best in the Magnesium the Mineral Transforming Lives episode of New Normal Big Life, number four, an Alternative Health on Apple Podcast. Listen wherever you get your podcasts. Fast forward after the interview, I bought the Rooted Inn bundle for sleep, tranquility, and pain relief. As a spine injury survivor with several other health challenges, I'm in constant pain. However, I don't take any pain medication. Rooted in is now one more source that nature provided to give our bodies what it needs when it needs it. You can find magnesium in natural bodies of water like lakes and rivers, and in soil. But modern farming practices have stripped magnesium out of the soil and our food. That's why today, Rooted Inn's rest, relief, and tranquility are part of our afternoon and nightmare sleep routine. My guide who did two tours cooking indoors in a rock with the Marines now has no trouble falling asleep. I no longer have to take melatonin before bedtime to fall asleep. So after I became a customer and saw how well these products work, I applied to become an affiliate. Do something naturally good for yourself. Get Rooted In. Click my affiliate link in the episode description to shop now.