Suicide Prevention: The Myth Costing Veteran Lives and How to Help

Trigger warning: This episode discusses suicide, suicidal ideation, and veteran mental health. Please take care of yourself as you listen.

The most dangerous myth in mental health, that asking someone about suicide plants the idea, is medically false, and it is costing veteran lives. US veterans die by suicide at more than twice the rate of the general population, and licensed professional counselor and Army veteran Healy Ikerd has spent her career asking the one question most people are too afraid to say out loud.

Healy breaks down why direct conversation about suicide does not increase risk, why veterans are often more comfortable opening up to strangers than to the people closest to them, and what one specific question can do when everything else has failed. If you love, work alongside, or serve veterans or first responders, and you have ever hesitated to bring it up, this episode gives you the language and the confidence to ask.

For anyone who wants to be the person that someone reaches out to, rather than the person who wishes they had said something sooner.

If you or someone you know needs support: call or text 988 (Suicide and Crisis Lifeline, US) or visit crisis988.com.

CHAPTERS

7:00 Debunking the Planting-the-Idea Myth

15:00 Suicide Rates: General Population vs. Veterans

22:00 Youth, Seniors, and Unique Risk Factors

30:00 The One Question That Changes Everything

38:00 Crisis Planning With Teens

Caregiver Resources

No Barriers USA Caregivers Program

Subscribe wherever you get podcasts. New episodes weekly. NewNormalBigLifePodcast.com

DrStellaMD Marketplace
Immune-boosting protocols Premium all-natural supplements Telehealth + wellness consultations

Ready Hour & My Patriot Supply
Best price on US-based preparedness and long-term storable food. Shop now with my affiliate link.

Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.

Transcript

Suicide Prevention Warning And Hope

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Wellness warriors, before we begin, I want to let you know that today's conversation will focus on suicide prevention. And if this topic is distressing or triggering, maybe press pause and get some support to listen with you, or feel free to skip this one and move to the next episode.

SPEAKER_01 0:18

I directly ask them, do you want to die, or is it something that you just want your feelings to change? If those feel overwhelming. And so far I haven't had anybody that actually wanted to die. All of them wanted their feelings to change. And that's when I say, that's great, because I can help you do exactly that. That is enough to help people to feel better.

SPEAKER_00 0:46

Hi, friends. Welcome to the New Normal Big Life Podcast. We're bringing you natural and integrative health information and stories about nature that we hope will inspire you to get outside an adventure, along with a step-by-step plan to help you practice what you've learned, create your own new normal, and live the biggest life you can dream. I'm your host, Antonat Lee, the Wellness Warrior. Let's get into today's topic. Welcome to New Normal Big Life, Healy Iker. I'm so glad you're here. Please tell us who you are, what you do, and the one big thing you want to leave us with from the expertise you plan to share today.

SPEAKER_01 1:20

My name is Healy Iker, and I'm a licensed professional counselor and licensed marriage and family therapist. I've been in the field for close to 20 years, give or take, some of that, not licensed, but in the mental health field. Today I would love for your listeners to just know that thoughts and feelings can be changed. And just because you feel a certain way or even think a certain way today doesn't mean that that will be true of tomorrow or next week. You can feel better, especially if you want to implement healthy things into your life. It just takes some intentionality, but I believe everything can change.

What Opened Her Eyes To Suicide

SPEAKER_00 1:59

I love how you put that. In preparation for today's interview, I found recent data that showed overall U.S. suicide rate is at 14 deaths per 100,000 people. And for veterans, it's 35 per 100,000 people. What first opened your eyes to this epidemic of loneliness and suicide in the United States?

SPEAKER_01 2:22

The statistics alone are really sad when you think that that's individual lives and family members and friends attached to each person that that has happened to. What first opened my eyes to just thinking about, you know, we studied suicide in when I went through grad school, of course, and we have to do continuing education hours. But right after I got my license, I went to a two or three-day training. I think it was a three-day training on suicide. And there were some experts in the field that came, and part of that training, they shared with us some interviews. It was kind of in a documentary format, some interviews of people who had thought about suicide, attempted suicide. And one of the things that they looked at was people jumping from the Golden Gate Bridge, that those especially that survived. And that impacted me so much. Had I not been a single mom and had responsibilities, like I was thinking, I'd like to just go walk the bridge and save these people because they wanted to be saved based on the stories that they were sharing and just walk the bridge because there were so many people going every day. I think the last research I'd done, they actually put a net under there that was under they were thinking about doing that because of the rate of people trying to jump. But that was really what made me think differently about people who were thinking of hurting themselves, but also just my compassion of, oh my goodness, like people think nobody cares. And even if they were strangers to me, I wanted to do something to help people. And even though I didn't go to California, I did begin to just think different and practice different as I worked with people.

SPEAKER_00 4:18

Is there any data on why people are drawn to that location? I know there is also a forest in Japan that people are drawn to when they've lost all hope. Is there data around why people are drawn to certain locations?

SPEAKER_01 4:31

That is a very good question. I don't really know. I know generally speaking, people do choose means a lot based on gender and their circumstance in life and kind of access to things. I don't know. I that's a good question, but I don't really know. I might just guess. That's fair. Like you might guess, but I might think that just sometimes if people want to go out, they want to do it in a way that maybe is meaningful to them. I don't know. Or just seems like meaningful in some way. I'm not sure. What are your guesses on that? I'd like to hear.

SPEAKER_00 5:09

Yeah, I I don't know, but one thought comes to mind is that some people want to be remembered for something because they've felt invisible in life, and others want to just quietly disappear because they want to lessen their loss of hope on maybe friends and family. That's kind of been my thought about that, but I don't know for sure.

SPEAKER_01 5:32

Yeah, I don't either. But I think that's a very good, that's a very good guess. Because I think that's exactly people want to be meaningful. They want to, you know, feel that exactly like you explained. So I think that's that's very likely.

Hope Through Seasons And Meaning

SPEAKER_00 5:46

Well, I really hope that everyone listening and everyone that you share this episode with knows that your life already does have meaning and it might feel hopeless in this moment. But here's something that helped me when I've been going through difficult times as a TBI survivor and my complications from a broken back, also, is that I live in the ice belt and winter is very, very long. And we enjoy it while it's here, but by the time spring is just about to peak, we're ready for winter to be gone. And just like eventually, winter will always turn to spring. Bad times, hard times, struggles don't last forever. Eventually, you work through it, you'll get to the other side, and you'll be glad that you hung in there. And I hope you find some insights in this podcast episode that will sustain you while you're going through this difficult time.

SPEAKER_01 6:45

I think the seasons is an excellent analogy because, you know, if you think about winter, how everything just looks dead, and you know, you know, just like how would that come back to life? You know, just looking at the trees, like it looks no sign of life, but the bulbs with flowers pop back up, the trees bloom again. So, regardless of how everything looks, there is life still there and that can look beautiful again. It's kind of really amazing. I love spring and the little things that just pop up. It's just such a reminder that nothing really is as it seems, either.

Risk Factors For Youth Seniors Veterans

SPEAKER_00 7:26

Right, right. So, from your perspective as both a veteran and a Christian woman, what are some unique pressures or experiences that make seniors, youth, and veterans more vulnerable to thoughts of suicide?

SPEAKER_01 7:40

Yeah, I think each age group kind of has its own specific thing for sure. But generally speaking, I would say that they all feel a loss of hope and they don't really believe that things are going to be different. Like things aren't going to be changed. How I feel today is what it's going to be tomorrow and the rest of my life. It's hard when you're down to imagine something different. So I think generally they probably all experience that to some level. Specifically, youth, they are very emotion-based. And this is probably why they have higher driving insurance rates too. They're, they just kind of think a little bit different. And it's not like I could actually hurt myself, but it's when I do these things, it's more in the moment kind of thinking. And so youth, I mean, I would guess that that's a lot of that, and especially that they're emotion-based and they make decisions on that. Seniors, I can't imagine the rest of my life feeling this way. And when you age, there are certain phases that we go through that, especially at a certain age, we become very reflective over our life. And so you can see like people do in midlife, they do a lot of new things because they don't want maybe what their past was to be their future. So it's a lot of reflective kind of things for them too. And then men are generally higher in the higher age range, and sometimes that's because they're alone, just a lot of things going on there. But veterans, we can see that pretty clearly. A lot of that is trauma-based. And a lot of being in the military, as you know, that when we get out, it's almost like you have to find your identity again because the military is so 24-hour, it's like a whole lifestyle, and it's not just a job where you go and you come home, it's like your whole life. And so when you become a civilian again, that is a very hard place to kind of get your mind around of like value is different, you know, before we're like fighting for our country or training for our country, or it's, you know, this thing. And then our identity is not that anymore. And then not to mention just the traumatic, hard things that happen in the military too, with deployments and all sorts of battles and just different things. Like that's just traumatic. And so that can, when you don't deal with your trauma for whatever reason, you can become very depressed and anxious or angry or just have a lot of those post-traumatic symptoms.

SPEAKER_00 10:22

Well, first of all, thank you for your service. And it's so great to be talking to a fellow army woman. Yes, go army. Right. Beat Navy. Just kidding, love you, Navy.

unknown 10:35

That's right.

SPEAKER_01 10:36

Well, when I was I worked at NATO, and so there were all branches of service there, but I worked with a Navy a lot there in the office, and that was our motto. Go Army, beat Navy. And he said the other, but we I didn't listen to that.

SPEAKER_00 10:53

It's a fun rivalry. We're sisters and brothers in arms, but we love to tease each other. That's right. And that's one of the things that we lose in the military. We lose our identity, our purpose and passion, our camaraderie, the close-knit friends that we had. And it's a lot. And then you come back to your community. And what I noticed is all of the media, all of the movies, they show the veteran as the bad person in a community, the person who's unhinged and going to do dangerous and violent things and not for the good. And it makes fellow community members look at you in a negative way. And so, for example, a dear friend that I took care of when she had no one to care for her after surgery, less than a month later told me she couldn't be my friend anymore because on the news they said if you have a veteran in your life, you're welcoming danger into your life. And she said, I can't be your friend. So we get a lot of negative impressions about veterans in the military in the public domain. But in reality, the same veteran that you told to swipe left or right or whatever it is, because they are a veteran in your dating profile is the same person who shows up and I don't know, volunteers their time with the Boys and Girls Club. And I know, for example, my fiance is a Marine Corps veteran. He did two tours kicking indoors in Iraq, and he teaches whitewater kayaking to other veterans, to children on the spectrum, to people of color. He volunteers his time teaching fishing and adventure camp as a counselor and also a founder, a co-founder of a nonprofit. But people like us, the three of us, are told that we should not be welcomed back into society through the media and through entertainment.

How To Ask About Suicide

SPEAKER_01 12:58

Yeah, that is really so sad because if you think about like you're already making a transition and then you come back with no community. And because the military, I mean, that is I was just telling my husband the other day, because I was I always tell my dogs, don't leave your buddy behind. Like you go get your buddy, don't leave him behind. Because that is big in the army. You don't leave anybody behind. You are there for your people and for fellow soldiers or sailors, or that is a big thing. And then you're come you're leaving that to you're by yourself. You might have some friends and you may have family, but you don't have that anymore. So you can see on online communities and stuff, though, that veterans really do support veterans for the most part. And if you look at podcasts, there are a lot of veteran podcasters out there. There are. They are trying to help, like they're not leaving their buddy behind. Like they are focused on helping veterans do better or feel better. I love that. Yeah, it's great.

SPEAKER_00 14:04

So one of the things that I think we are doing wrong as a society is that we've made it very awkward and scary for a family member or a friend to let someone know that they're worried about them and to ask, hey, are you okay? And to just kind of directly bring up, are you having thoughts of suicide? Because we live in this, I don't know what to call it, comfort culture where we've made people so afraid of feeling their feelings and experiencing things that might make them feel bad or think of certain thoughts. And I I don't think that is helpful because it takes away your ability to become resilient. So, what do you think about this comfort culture? Is it helpful or is it harmful? Is it somewhere in the middle?

SPEAKER_01 14:56

I do think that it is, and this is my personal opinion, but I think it is very hard to be in a hard world when you are used to just being comforted. The only way to really build resilience is to go through hard things. And and one of the big myths that you'll normally find on suicide prevention sites and stuff is they say it's not okay to talk about suicide with someone else because it will put the idea in their mind. And that is quickly debunked, that that's not the case at all. It is more likely if you don't say something directly that that is the problem because people think, gosh, don't you care? Which you find in a lot of interviews of people who have actually attempted, like if just one person would reach out, I was gonna not do it, or something like that. And so we have to be okay with just asking about it. It doesn't put anything in anybody's mind. And you can actually clarify when someone's saying something that kind of sounds like hopeless, or they really, you know, the future seems bleak to them if they can even imagine the future that we do have to say something. That may be the only thing that is helpful to them to know that somebody cares. So, and I think it also helps. I mean, I of course I ask about it in counseling, which is part of my job, but I find normally people are relieved a little bit to say something. It just takes away the power of the thought and the emotion when they can actually say something about it. Yes. Maybe I wouldn't actually do it, but I have thought about it. And when I say yeah, a lot of people think about it. The thought has crossed probably the majority of people's minds at one time or another. Doesn't mean they'll do it, but let's just talk through, talk through that a little bit. And then you can kind of find out if they're serious or if they're just particularly depressed or feeling helpless at the moment.

SPEAKER_00 17:02

What I found very interesting at the adventure camp that we run is that campers would tell relative strangers, us camp counselors, you know, I was both the counselor and a director, that they were having thoughts of suicide before coming to camp. And I wonder why it seems like, and I don't know if this is the case, but it because I've also had lots of veterans tell me that they were thinking that life feels very hopeless, but they had not shared it with a friend or family. I wonder why it felt easier for them to tell someone you don't know very well versus someone who knows and loves you.

Coping Plans Nature And Nervous System

SPEAKER_01 17:41

Yeah, you're probably afraid, you know, what family members are gonna think or that they'll try to hospitalize you or something along those lines. I mean, it can be very scary and maybe overwhelming, like they don't know what to do, they feel ill-equipped. And um, I think family members are also afraid of the burden that it puts on family members. Like I don't want them to be worried about me, or I hear lots of different things. I think when I've talked to teens a lot and their parents, I mean, we try to do that in in the counseling sessions is talk really openly about it. So as the teen can make a plan of teach them coping skills, and I just ask certain questions and it helps the parent feel a little bit more empowered to be part of the plan, or at least, you know, can be involved in that. And it helps the teen feel better too. So sometimes first we talk about emotions and how important those are to be able to identify those, but also that that is one thing that I heard in that training was that most people don't necessarily want to die. They just don't want to feel what they're feeling anymore. They want the feelings to end and they don't know any other way to do that. Then I directly asked them, do you want to die? Or is it something that you just want your feelings to change that those feel overwhelming? And every single time, I mean, this is a very informal study I did, but what prompted me was the training, and they had done studies on that. And so far, I haven't had anybody that actually wanted to die. All of them wanted their feelings to change. And that's when I say, that's great, because I can help you do exactly that. That is enough to help people to feel better because we feel like I can't change the way I feel. And that's a falsehood in this world. That is not true. We can change the way that we feel. We do it all the time through our thoughts and through our behaviors. We do change the way that we feel. And so when they can feel empowered to be able to, I can make decisions, I can change my thoughts, change my behaviors to feel differently, then that gives them a whole nother like, okay, if I can feel differently, I do want to live. And that is very empowering. So when so when the parents come in and we make the list of coping skills and things, one of the things that we talk about is like, okay, if you're feeling down and you don't necessarily want to talk about it, you just go out and sit with your family. And maybe you say one thing that they know what's going on, but you don't necessarily have to talk about it. Because sometimes you don't want to talk about it. You just want to feel better. And spending time with family can do that for most people. One important part I think that's important in as we talk about suicide, just empowering people to feel differently about it.

SPEAKER_00 20:50

Do I do something for myself to try and change my mood, or do I just sit here because sometimes it's easier, easier than being forced into a conversation about it when I don't want to, I'm not ready or in a space to process what I'm feeling. I just want to feel better.

SPEAKER_01 21:10

And don't we all feel like that sometimes? Like I just Absolutely. I need to, yeah. I don't even know what I'm thinking like. So I just let me just wait a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 21:19

My phrase that that I used, and I use it with friends, family, and at a time when I used to lose my vision because of ocular migraines after a brain injury, I would lose my vision sometimes for a few minutes, but sometimes I'd get rebound headaches. And for a full 24 hours, I couldn't see out of my right eye. And my left eye was just shaped in like a bright light. And I could see a little bit of color, but essentially I was blind and on the side of the highway, and a state trooper comes up and identifies himself. And he's like, How did you get on the side of the road if you can't see? And I'm like, So you got jokes. Can you just give me a hug? And the stranger was just hugging me. And it's like, is there anything else I can do for you, ma'am? And I was like, I'm really scared. I just lost my vision. I don't know what's happening. And I just needed a hug. I don't want to talk about my feelings. I just needed a hug. And it completely shifts from sheer terror to you're going to be okay, whatever this is, the first time that happened.

SPEAKER_01 22:25

Yeah. And if you can tell your loved ones that, like when I'm feeling this way, here are the things to do, whether that is a hug or just kind of space or holding your hand, like that helps them so much too, as well as you that you don't have to say it. We've already got a plan for it. So good for you for vocalizing a hug.

SPEAKER_00 22:47

Absolutely. Do what my horse bow does, and he'll just kind of, you know, a thousand pounds, walk up to you and put his head on your heart. And that's his way of saying, I need a hug, comfort me. And I go, you know, that's genius. And I do that to my fiance. I just, I don't even have to say anything. I just walk up to him and put my head on his heart, and he knows I just need some comforting and it's all gonna be fine. Yeah. So that's good. Equine therapy is a really great way to help you regulate your nervous system. And the way that it works is when you start with groundwork, with uh the horse, before you start riding, you'll start learning how to get the horse's respect and get them to do things with just your your body motion, not even touching them, or with your words, or just getting them to follow you without holding their lead. And when I am doing groundwork and I come towards a horse with a bad attitude, they're like, no, lady, take your bad energy somewhere else because you want to work with the horse, you want to ride it or you want to groom it or whatever it is. So you're motivated to quickly check in, do some breath work, change your vibe and re-engage with the horse. And that practice with the equine can transfer over to when you're with people.

SPEAKER_01 24:13

If people could do that, right? That they could just like, okay, come back when you're ready, or just have some sort of check like that in the morning when you get up. Yeah, that would be great.

Supporting Someone Without Panicking

SPEAKER_00 24:25

So when a person feels like there's someone in my life that I'm concerned about and they just want to have a straightforward conversation about someone's mental state, what are some healthy ways to approach that conversation?

SPEAKER_01 24:42

Well, I think always with care. I think if we go in with the third degree, that's not really going to be helpful. And, you know, trying to sometimes convince people of things that they may not be ready for. I think there is what's called a ministry of presence and sometimes just being there for someone and listening to kind of their whatever's going on with them, if they're angry or or really sad of just listening and not really trying to do much in the beginning, but listen and hear and try to understand where they're coming from. Most of us can relate to someone that is feeling depressed, even if we haven't had depression per se. But we've all had days and situations in our life where we have felt really down and maybe no reason, but we haven't felt motivated or we have just kind of a hopeless feeling. And for most people, that doesn't last, or they know some things to do to kind of change that, but not everybody has that. So after we listen, we might, I mean, we have to kind of gauge how the conversation's going, but then offer some options of when I go into workplaces and give information about suicide and mental health. That's one of the things I say, well, it would be important to, especially if they've got a plan and they're really that this is a serious thought that they're having, that they want to hurt themselves, then you need to walk them over to somewhere or call the line together, or just don't say you should do this and walk off, but help them, encourage them that you do care, you're there, and that, you know, if the numbers that they can call, that you sit there with them or offer to call for them and then hand the phone over, that can be helpful for them just to not feel alone. You know, when people come to counseling, especially for the first time, that is hard to walk through a stranger's door. It is also hard to call someone that's a stranger, a little bit easier to call them, but it's hard to talk to a stranger about your stuff. And so if you know somebody that you've got a little bit there to show that you care and that you can encourage them and help help them. It's a hard, it's a hard journey because sometimes the person that's sitting there listening, it can feel very overwhelming. And I just say you don't have to have all the right answers. That's okay. Just being there can be helpful and you know, listening the best that you can is going to be helpful. Nobody knows exactly the right thing to do. I sit in counseling sometimes and like I don't know what to say. And I think I'm human. I'm not, you know, I'm not AI.

SPEAKER_00 27:38

I don't have all the but like you were saying, just knowing that somebody cares and someone is listening without judgment and allowing you to feel what you feel without being defensive about it. Because sometimes in families, they take it personal when you are having a mental health crisis. Like what didn't I do? What should I have done differently? And instead of saying that to someone else and processing that in that, you know, with a therapist or their trusted friend, their reaction can come across to the family member as frustrated or angry or sad or like a helicopter family member, meaning that now that you've said I'm struggling with a mental health challenge, I'm gonna hover over you and treatly treat you like you don't have autonomy anymore. And that can be, you know, something that people don't want either. So for the person who's listening and they're silently thinking, no one will miss me, they might be better off without me. What's a truth that we could share with them today to kind of pull them back from this thought that is completely not the case? Because we are all connected. It's like when you prune a tree, it misses that branch and it has to heal from that. So the collective, the human collective would miss you. If you don't have anybody else out there that, you know, you've disconnected from friends and family for whatever reason, you have all of us. But is there anything more that you we could share?

SPEAKER_01 29:19

Yeah, I think, you know, depending on how open they are to it, certainly, you know, challenging that, not in a negative but a a gentle way, challenging that belief. Because it sounds like when they say that, that no one would miss me, either one, they want someone to miss them, so that's good. And or that that's maybe they've broken off all their relationships, because a lot of people say, like, they would be better off without me. And and so that that's always a challenge of like, okay, is what you're saying really true? And if it is, is there something that we can do to make that not true? Because maybe they have broken off all the relationships. Now, I believe, just from my faith background, that every person has value, every person has a purpose, every person has a calling. And whether they've lived up to that at this point or not, they still have it going forward. God, our creator, has put the number on our days. And if he hasn't called us home today, then he has a plan and purpose for us to live out, regardless of what's going on out here. So even if it were true, nobody would miss you, which I would challenge is not a true statement. But even if it were true, if I were to give you that, you still have purpose and meaning beyond that. And would you be interested in creating relationships with people that would value you, that would love you, that would miss you? And I would say if they're saying that, that they do want that. They want somebody to miss them. I mean, don't we all? This is like an inherent need of all of us. We want to feel important to other people. We want to be loved by other people and and, you know, be valuable in their life. That's that's all of us. That's a universal need that we all have.

SPEAKER_00 31:24

We all desire connection and to be part of something bigger than ourselves. And, you know, we are more connected than ever through devices, but that device is also a barrier because we don't get together in real life, heartbeat to heartbeat, energy to energy, vibe to vibe, as some people like to say, commune, you know, have food and laughter and enjoy music and tell stories like we used to do. I do that in my friend community. I can see a campfire in fall, and I will say to my friend, hey, it looks like you've got a campfire on my way over. And then another friend will say, I'm on my way over, and then it's a party, and you know, it's 40 degrees, but we're all in our car heart standing around a campfire, enjoying being face to face in communion with each other, even if we did have to hike or sometimes cross-country ski or drive to our neighbor's house. We just enjoy coming together as friends.

SPEAKER_01 32:28

There's a lot of research that backs that up, that there's chemicals in our brain that are released when we are in people's presence. And those are the things that keep us well, that the sense of belonging and of love, all those things, especially if you're sitting around enjoying a meal together, but you can do other things. And plus, there's the opportunity for touch too, which also releases oxytocin. Like those things are valuable for us. And, you know, online communities, they do have their value. But if you're reaching out and someone's encouraging you, you are still physically by yourself. And just like being on the side of the road and just needing comfort of another person, even if it's a stranger, to give you a hug, that would that's what we need. We need that as people. And research will back that up all day long. Yes, you can have online community, but you must have some in-person community as well, constantly in your life. Just think about it. If you're feeling down and just yuck kind of a day, and then you go have lunch with a friend, even if it's really hard to get there, you typically don't regret that because you laugh, you eat, you have a good time, and that will automatically change how you feel. It's a great example of this is how I can change how I feel. I feel dumpy in the morning. Go do the things, even if it's around the house, going outside, sitting around the campfire. Those things have been proven to help us feel better. So we can change our emotions just by behaving in certain ways. And especially if you follow the research, you can do the things that research says to do. Being outside is one of those things. Being with people, that's one of those things. So if you're gonna have a list of things to do to change the way that you feel, which is often what I help people who are struggling with suicide or suicidal thoughts, that's one of the things that I try to help them do is like, let's just create a list of things, seven things or something, that you will be intentional about doing, that you'll do these things before you do anything, you know, final. We want to try these things. And a lot of times it'll be those things that they know bring them joy. So I love that. So we just brainstorm together on some things that they can do. And if at the end they're still feeling the same way, we just go through the list another time. But normally at the end, we'll have a person to call or two people to call or three, so that if one's not available, you've got another backup. So we know it's not personal if somebody doesn't answer us when we're struggling in the moment that people don't always have their phones. So we will have another person. And then if, you know, how often do they answer the phone? If they're kind of busy people, then we might have another on there for, and we'll have maybe the suicide prevention hotline number as well. So that's normally I have them go through a second time before we call because I believe all people have the capacity to change the way that they feel and change the way that they think. They just have to be intentional about it. And so I want to help them create a plan on how exactly to do that. So that's my goal in helping them think and feel differently.

SPEAKER_00 36:04

And wellness warriors, if you need some strategies on what you can do with yourself outdoors to help change your mood. I just published an episode about how modern life is making you sick. So adapt outdoor therapy as a practice. And there are tons of ways to get outside and adventure that are no cost or low cost. And there's also an episode that I hope you will listen to as spring approaches so that you can turn weeds into wellness by foraging for dandelions and making dandelion tea, dandelion salad, and dandelion gummies. Children love making the dandelion gummies and they get a healthy treat at the end. So check out those episodes.

SPEAKER_01 36:51

Oh, that sounds great. There's a lot of research that backs up being, not just being in nature, but even seeing nature. Like if you can't go outside, if just sitting at the window, like they've done studies at hospitals just by people who have a window to look outside, they do better in their healing than those that don't. And then when you go outside, there's research that shows that even just standing in the grass in your bare feet for 30 minutes a day can significantly improve your mood. We look at all this research. We should have no more depressed and anxious people. There is so much research out there to show how to improve your mood.

Caregiver Boundaries And Where To Find Help

SPEAKER_00 37:35

Before we cover the next topic in this episode, I want to introduce you to the Adventure Sports Lifestyle with a micro story about an adventure that I've had. The adventure sports lifestyle and my deep connection to nature is essential to my good health, so here's the story. I never understood why you would see grown men crying, not actual tears, but crying about losing the fish that got away. I would listen to their stories and think, what's the big deal until it happened to me. I spent a month's worth of cold nights at a lake in Colorado trying to land my first walleye. And every night we went out and I could see that my technique wasn't working. Matt was landing fish, but I wasn't over again and again. And then finally I had a fish on. I could see the walleye. It was right at shore. And then I did a rookie mistake. I didn't take the fish out of the water and it shook off, and I lost the one of the biggest fish of my life at that time, and my first time landing that species. And I was devastated. It kept me up for several nights. I cried about it, actual tears. And then I realized okay, that's why the angler always tells the story about the fish that got away. I hope this inspires you to get outside an adventure with friends. Family are the people you love most. Now back to the topic. So, Healy, what are some practical tools that caregivers or supporters, family members, and friends who are being supportive of a person going through a mental health challenge? What are tools that they can use to set boundaries to protect their own mental health, to ensure that they're not getting burnout? Because I was talking with another patient advocate guest who dropped a shocking piece of data that doctors and researchers show that 50% of caregivers pass away before the person they're caregiving for.

SPEAKER_01 40:01

Well, they have a name called compassion fatigue. Yeah, that is a real thing, and boundaries are the key in that learning how to care for yourself. Because when you are tired and, you know, thinking about someone a lot, worrying about them a lot, that is going to affect your physical health. There's no doubt about that. Like our emotions, our mental health affect our physical health. So if for no other reason to work on our stuff just to stay healthy physically, we have to pay attention to those things. It is very hard for caregivers. I feel such compassion for them as they care for loved ones because sometimes they are the only one that can care for them. And it is a great and hard burden. And you can make yourself feel guilty for a lot of things. I should be doing more, I should never take a break. And it's a lot of stuff. It's very hard for them. And then, you know, even if you're not just caring for them physically, and then they're got mental struggles, they've maybe thought about suicide in the past, and so you're trying to do all these things to help, we have to learn at some place that we are responsible for our own thoughts, feelings, and behaviors, and others are responsible for theirs too. And so when we just go in and try to rescue, and I'm just gonna kind of take like if you're caring for a mother who's got Alzheimer's, like not that. That's different. But if you're if you're caring for someone who's got a mental health disorder, for them, you do have to step back because they aren't going to find healing if you're coming in and rescuing them every time from the consequences of their actions. Most of us, most people, learn, we change our behavior based on consequences. So if no one ever experiences those, you have no opportunity to change either. And part of that can be very, very difficult if we see someone declining. So I I would say you might need a counselor or somebody to walk through it with you so you can kind of have another perspective on how to, you know, where to have boundaries and where to like step back and then where to maybe come in and and love well. It that can be very hard to kind of figure out when you're all if you've never done that before, or you just love them and don't want them to hurt. It's a very hard place to get out of your emotions and make logical decisions. It it's hard because you don't want to be callous either, you know, or even seemingly that way. It's just a hard thing to walk through. So I would say maybe having someone walk beside you. There are groups for almost anything anyone is struggling with and online or in person. So there are places out there for help. You might have to do a little research. And if you need help, you're very welcome to reach out to me to help.

SPEAKER_00 43:17

No Barriers USA is a nonprofit that supports people with differing abilities or disabilities and their family members. And they have a caregivers program. I think there's an online component and an in-person component, and there are a lot of other nonprofit organizations that have similar programs for caregivers. Just a simple online search. You should come up with tons of them if that's a resource you need. And I can drop a few into the show description. Keely, before we end here, could you give us maybe a story that illustrates what effective support looks like? Of course, protect the identities, but what would Effective support look like for someone who's deep in crisis? And what was that mindset shift that took them out of a downward spiral to feeling hopeful and working toward the future?

SPEAKER_01 44:13

Yeah, normally it is the realization that, because I told you like I asked this of clients when they come in and about just do you really want to die or do you are you just tired and overwhelmed of the way that you're feeling and don't want to feel that way anymore? And that is normally the light bulb that comes on for them because then we can work with that. And if they well, I haven't had anybody say they want to die yet, but if they do want to die, then we work on giving them hope. But normally if it's just feelings, then we can work on that. That's typically the change that shifts for them differently moment. And so we had to work on some past stuff. Somebody did something that made them feel unvalued. And so then we have to work on reestablishing their value. It's not other people that give us value. Our value's been established when we were created. And so helping them see those sort of things to then take care of themselves. Because once we really understand who we are, we will care for ourselves so much better.

SPEAKER_00 45:27

That's such a lovely truth to share with someone, Healy. I really loved your style of connection and how you work with people. That's so reason I wanted to have this conversation so much. What more do you want listeners to know before you leave?

SPEAKER_01 45:43

I think as, you know, because suicide is often looked at like a purely mental or emotional issue, but I would say that we know that we are a whole person and that encompasses all parts of ourselves, our physical, our emotional, our spiritual, our mental. We have to work on all those things to make a difference in our life, to feel the way that we want to feel. Think in healthy with healthy thoughts. But so we have to take care of our body because we are not going to feel good if we're in pain all the time or experiencing some things that are difficult. So taking care of our physical body, learning to take care of our emotional self, not catering to it, but managing it so it can work for us, not against us. And then our mental and our spiritual as well, that we work on all components of ourselves. That will help us be healthy. So it's not just physical, it's not just mental, it's not just spiritual, it's all those things to help us to be the very healthiest we can be.

SPEAKER_00 46:51

Healy, how can listeners find you and connect with you and your work?

SPEAKER_01 46:55

My website is writtenbyhealy.com. H-E-A-L-E-Y is how to spell my name. And I have lots of free mental health resources there for people if they're interested, but you can connect me, send me an email if you have a question. I'm happy to help with anything. I also have a book on Amazon. Well, it's on all online bookstores. Um, called Changing Your Feelings. And it's specifically about anxiety and worry and how to change your thoughts and feelings related to that. But it is the same thing for whether you're feeling depressed or angry. The book will work for anybody. So I would encourage people if they are struggling with the way that they're thinking or they don't like the way that they feel, to check out my book. I think I'm listed everywhere else at Written by Healy, like on Facebook and Instagram. It's written by Healy. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:48

Well, thank you so much for joining us, Healy. This has been so insightful, and we'll drop all of the links in the show description. That's it for this time on New Normal Big Life. Live strong, explore boldly, be ready. The information in this podcast is not medical advice and should not be treated as such. Always consult your physician or healthcare professional before pursuing any health related procedure or activity.