Episode 40 Let's Talk about Sex Part 2

In this episode of 'Take a Pause with MenoPalz, the hosts engage in an open and honest discussion with Maya, a licensed mid-wife, about the challenges women face when discussing intimacy and sexual health, particularly during menopause. They explore the impact of upbringing on language surrounding anatomy, the importance of using proper terminology, and how empowering it can be to break the silence around these topics. The conversation emphasizes the need for women to feel comfortable discussing their bodies and health, and the role of language in fostering that comfort. In this conversation, the speakers discuss the profound impact of hormonal changes on women's health, particularly during menopause. They emphasize the importance of open dialogue about sexual health and intimacy, advocating for women to be their own advocates in healthcare settings. The discussion highlights the need to break the silence surrounding women's health issues, encouraging empowerment through communication and education. The speakers also address the complexities of intimacy and sexuality, stressing that these topics should be normalized and openly discussed to foster better understanding and support among women and their partners.

Disclaimer: This is general information and education. This is not therapeutic or medical advice. 

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:01

Oh boy. Hello and welcome to Take a Pause with Mini Pals, where we will talk about the pause and all of her glory and not so glory. But it's an honest, real, and maybe a little bit funny conversations. Right, girls? Every single time. Every single time. So today we're talking about something many women whisper about or avoid entirely: sex, intimacy, and the words we use for our bodies. I mean, all of the different words. I mean, for me, it's the JJ, the hoo-ha, and other terms that we'll find out from my lovely partners in crime, Devi and Raquel.

SPEAKER_04 0:44

Hey girls.

SPEAKER_01 0:46

I'm a little nervous this show. I don't know. I can't breathe. So if I'm silenced, you know why.

SPEAKER_02 0:52

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 0:53

We are um we are very excited to have the pleasure of having Maya back, who we talked with before. So this is um our Let's Talk About Sex Part 2 with Maya, who is a licensed midwife from Sweden. So again, ladies, we are going global. So welcome, Maya.

SPEAKER_02 1:15

Welcome, Maya. Welcome to the year.

SPEAKER_03 1:18

Okay, so it kind of looks like I get the first question right off the bat. They're doing this on purpose, Maya, just so you know. Yeah. So this is a qu this is a question actually coming from a lot of women, but from me personally, this is a really tough question.

unknown 1:33

Huh.

SPEAKER_03 1:34

Why do women struggle? She's laughing at me, probably. Why why do women struggle saying the words down there? No, no. What's for?

SPEAKER_01 1:48

Vegina. Yay, when's that? There we go. There we go. And we are only one minute and 54 seconds into it. I love it, Debbie.

SPEAKER_03 1:57

Okay, the other the other word's even harder to say. Vol Volvo? Volvo? Maybe I just can't pronounce it.

SPEAKER_00 2:01

Volva. Volva.

unknown 2:04

Volva.

SPEAKER_03 2:05

Yeah. I was going to call it a Volvo, but anyway. No, it's so word. Okay, so I I got that out. But I why is it so hard to struggle? And is it because maybe how I was raised or how I was grown up? I mean, why is it so I'm gonna be 67 and this is like one of the second times of my life I've said that word because I'm surrounded with you guys and the whole world is listening. But it's a safe place. We are a safe place. We are a safe place, but what why? Why? Help us to know why.

SPEAKER_00 2:38

Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's a really good question. What do you think?

SPEAKER_03 2:42

Me?

SPEAKER_00 2:42

Uh why do you think it's so hard to say it?

SPEAKER_03 2:46

And also then uh Mary Raquel, why why do you I you know honestly, if I just like close my eyes and think for a minute and just take a breath. I think it's because growing up I mean, I love my mom and dad, but we never really talked about any the it we didn't talk about sex, we didn't talk about your period, we didn't talk about anything. They were amazing where they never even argued in front of me. So I really grew up thinking that anything to do with down there or even your up here was like something that you don't talk about. Like it's private, like you don't don't even say that. And it's pretty sad that that I never was able to say it or talk about it. So for me, I think it's just how I was raised, maybe. I I don't know, or maybe I'm insecure. I help.

unknown 3:34

I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 3:35

No, I kind of want to piggyback off of you, Debbie, because I think I grew up in a pretty um conservative household, also, where you know, my mom swears up and down. I often joke that she swears up and down anytime she got pregnant, she was sitting on a toilet because sex didn't happen in our house, you know, it just didn't happen, you know. So like I I very much know, you know, which is so funny because I would see her with like hickeys on her neck, and I'm like, mom, really, really curling iron, curling iron accident. Curling hair. Ever. Like she always had like the braid, like it was just never. So for me, I think it like I went the opposite direction where I was like, Oh, you don't want to talk about it? Oh, I'm gonna talk about it tenfold. And I think with you, Debbie, like you were just like, Oh, well, I don't want to disappoint, so I'm gonna just not talk about the taboo topics.

SPEAKER_03 4:28

Yeah, no, honestly, that is true. It with everything. I was always the the little girl who didn't want to get anybody upset. I wanted to be perfect, I wanted to never do anything wrong because I didn't want to be like sent away. So I I always tried to be really aware of other people's feelings and of what I talked about. So yeah, that makes it makes total sense.

SPEAKER_04 4:48

Yeah, to me, like I always look back to like the childhood because I feel like a lot of our root problems come from things that we don't even realize at the time that like things were happening. But I was a people pleaser too, but I also I often pleased in ways that I was much more rebellious, so I could get a little more attention. You know, like I I had that like I was the tomboy, I was like the boy of the family till my brother came along. So I always wanted to be like the rough and tough one, like, oh, I have this.

SPEAKER_01 5:17

I think too, like we never like said the actual proper anatomic name, like for it. Like I never heard like it was, you know, my mom called it something different. And you know, growing up, you know, it was like so funny when like you, Raquel, like I was like, Oh, we're gonna, you know, say the proper words. Like when, you know, we had our son, I'm like, oh, well, say penis. And you know, my mom would then correct and be like, oh, his pistol. And I'm like, no, it's not a pistol, it's a penis. Like it's a penis, you know what for vagina. So it like made it like it shameful, like just saying the words. I'm like, so when my friends, I went around the table at lunch um the other day and asking of what they called it. There was only, and it's a you know, they're all in their 30s, only two out of all of them said the actual vagina and penis to their kids. All the others had cute little words for it. And I'm like, oh, I really think you should say vagina and pe you know, like just to get used to it so that it's like just a normal word.

SPEAKER_02 6:18

It doesn't hold any power.

SPEAKER_01 6:19

It is a normal word, it doesn't hold any power. Right.

SPEAKER_00 6:23

I think it's a good thing.

SPEAKER_01 6:24

We give it power. We do give it power.

SPEAKER_00 6:26

Yeah, especially when we keep silence about it. Um I think like if you ever needed to go to a medical doctor or a midwife or a um and you didn't have words for it, it makes it so much harder because how do you say that? How do you actually tell your whoever you're telling that you you're having an issue or that you need help, or or if you've been sexually abused, how do you report something that you cannot talk about? How do you how do you ever um or how do you even uh embed that in your in your in your reality that things happen to you or or that you just need to go and and have uh examination because because you need to.

SPEAKER_04 7:12

So making it invisible doctors too because you know you have the terminology to say certain things because you're raised in this household. You know, I remember having babies. I it was like we didn't talk about that at home, even though I kind of went a little, you know, sideways. I I still struggled with those words to having those conversations with what I like viewed those people as like authority positions, you know, like the doctor or the midwife. You know, it was it was difficult to like have those conversations at that time because I was still young and I wasn't able to kind of like articulate that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 7:48

So the other the other thing how it could affect is if we avoid it, it definitely creates distance from our bodies, our needs, and our pleasure. So I feel like by not understanding what's happening down there, as I sit down there, um we don't really even know like what it looks like, or we don't I mean, we stay away from all of that. So how how do you even ex like you said when you go to the doctor, or let's say you're it your first intimate relationship, how do you even bring that up? How do you know like what's up left, right, up? But how do you know? Like how do you even know how to so what would be something for a young woman struggling or older woman, what what would you say to her like to make her feel safe and that it's okay to ask those questions?

SPEAKER_00 8:32

It is okay to ask those questions. That's the first thing I would say that it's and it's and I can also understand that people struggle with it because even even today, like you were saying, that you that you ask your colleagues, and only two actually say the proper words to their kids. So it's not really that um we are in a more liberal context, but it's not like people still um feel comfortable speaking about the anatomy of the body as it is. You still find anatomical textbooks still for medical doctors, for nurses, for midwives, where you don't even have the entire clitoris. It's it's still missing in a lot of the anatomical books, which I find it's also if we still are making it invisible, then I I it's not a surprise to me that people struggle with speaking about it. And still, even if you have you have these children anatomical books where you have like the the one foot and the toes and the nails and like you go through the body for for children children. And when it's the uh the genitals, what's I don't know, at least at least in Sweden now, there's been a huge change where you actually um write down the names and you have a name for the penis and the vagina and the vulva, which are different things, the the vagina and the vulva. Um and you have words for them that are a little bit more adapted to children, they're not that anatomical, like penis. Um but it's still the the important thing is that they they have a name, it's not just this down there, which I don't want to associate with. Yeah. And this is what happens, what you don't want to associate is so then as you were saying, Debbie, like what happens when you're actually having your maybe your first sexual encounter with another person? Um, how do you communicate to that person what you like if that is such a taboo area that you don't even like you don't even know what you like because you never I mean that is forbidden territory that you're only allowed to explore with um I don't know, maybe your your partner that you're married with. I don't know, it really depends on the context. And I don't think it's it's I don't think this is a thing or or a matter of being from a conservative family or a very traditional in a liberal. I I think that you still find this in very liberal context as well, that it's still very taboo, it's still very sad, I would say.

SPEAKER_04 11:05

Yeah, it is really sad because what I mean we need to be talking about these things in order to be able to help ourselves. So yeah, it is difficult.

SPEAKER_01 11:14

Yes, and it came um full circle for me because we had another um episode and we mentioned, you know, uh the word Bob, battery operated boyfriend, like for my break. Right, like yeah, yeah. My mom saw the clip and she was like, Who's Bob? And I was like, Oh god. And I'm like, and I thought, well, I could just say, Oh, you know, her boyfriend and just went it on from there and have her thing. But I was like, Nope. I was like, oh, battery operator boyfriend, mom. And she was like, What? And I'm like a vibrator, and she was like, Oh my god, Mary Ann, you know? And again, you're right, yeah, you know, and like again, I'm you know, I'm at an age where like nothing really embarrasses, but I was like right down to like being a teen of like, oh my god. And I was like, Yep. I'm driving home. I'm like, yep, explained a vibrator and a fun name for it to my 81-year-old mother. I was like, this is a different day.

SPEAKER_04 12:30

Time for changing. Time for changing.

SPEAKER_03 12:32

There's no way I would have ever explained to Bob or whoever to anybody that's the true story. They have to be hid and buried somewhere so that when you die, your kids don't find them. You throw them away before you find them. And then put them in a sack and then hide them.

SPEAKER_00 12:52

Bury them in the background. What you're saying is actually, I mean, we have had questions of those. Uh I mean, we have had um like a colleague of mine had a patient that was very she was quite old, uh, and she never had an orgasm in her life. And she she was really curious about uh like vibrators and was asking my colleague about vibrators and and like very a very a very sweet old lady that I don't know, she was like 80 something. Um God love her. I think it's super brave. I think it's such a woman to actually ask about these things. And she was really embarrassed and she was super cautious, yeah. And but her what was holding her back was like It's okay. What was holding her back was so what if I buy one and then they because I don't have that much time left, so what if I buy one and I die and my family finds it? I'm a son, what if my daughter, what if my what if they see that I had a vibrator or um or a satisfier, like yeah, yeah. And my colleague told her, like, she was just laughing and saying that don't you think they would be happy for you?

SPEAKER_03 14:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 14:02

That's a good perspective. I love that.

SPEAKER_03 14:05

That's a great perspective, yes. Yes, but they might giggle a little bit, but we won't be able to do that. Of course they will. Of course they will.

SPEAKER_04 14:13

Yeah, yes, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 14:14

We'll be like, well, yeah, yeah. It's a good way to die.

SPEAKER_02 14:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:23

But I mean, my gosh, the poor thing. 80, yeah, I'm how it is empowering that she was like, hey, I do wanna I want to feel and hear and see what everybody talks about, type of thing, no matter how old you are. Susie? Debbie.

SPEAKER_03 14:38

I got I'm I'm maybe I should unbury them. I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 14:44

All you see in the back of Debbie's backyard are holes.

SPEAKER_03 14:51

It's like I'm like a like a blue jay. I just bury them and go back, but I need some attention.

SPEAKER_04 14:59

Oh my god, I just had such a visual.

SPEAKER_03 15:02

You don't want to have a visual. Yeah. No, but okay.

SPEAKER_04 15:11

Okay, so we'll move on to Raquel.

SPEAKER_03 15:15

Can we please move on to Raquel? Yes.

SPEAKER_01 15:19

Debbie is still sweating. There she is.

SPEAKER_00 15:21

There she is. You've been very brave, Debbie.

SPEAKER_03 15:25

I can't breathe, seriously.

SPEAKER_04 15:27

We know Debbie's still sweating over there, so we're gonna breathe.

SPEAKER_03 15:31

Well, continue, can continue on, Raquel.

unknown 15:34

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 15:35

So let's name it vagina, vulva, clitoris. These are anatomical terms, not dirty words. So why is using proper language actually empowering, Maya? Like I I feel like it's empowering, but why do you feel like it's empowering?

SPEAKER_00 15:53

Because we know what we were talking about. There's less confusion, I would say. Um it's also I think it's a way to relate to to yourself, to to your body, to your uh to see yourself um not only as a whatever you see yourself, but some a whole person with uh even a sexuality that might be very alarming for people to to look at themselves and see like I'm also a sexual person. It doesn't have to it doesn't mean that you have to be sexually super active or active or it doesn't mean that it just means that it's part of who you are. It's that it's it's just like language. We communicate, we commune differently, yeah. Right. And sexuality is a part of us. And if we don't really own it, if we don't if there is no link to to my anatomical parts where a lot of the pleasure um is I mean, no, I can't say that pleasure is in the genitals because it really isn't it's really the brain. The brain is the most important erotical organ. Um I just realized that I need to put my charger on. Okay. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_04 17:12

So I yeah, I think that you know using proper language and actually like empowering women is is one of the key ways to like continue the conversation forward, especially in our like our learning path.

SPEAKER_01 17:29

I agree, I agree because well like you said about how um just like saying that the words that they're not dirty, you know what I mean? If you if you say the word and you think it's dirty, then you're not going to want to even try anything for pleasure because oh, you're not supposed to go down there. Right. There you go, Debbie. See, down there, you know what I mean? And it just puts on like a whole and then you don't it feel, then you feel dirty and then shameful and it just continues on from there, I feel like, and then that's where like people can you're struggling with menopause and things are changing, and now you know, you don't know what to do, and now you feel like you're shameful if you do get a um, you know, battery operator, boyfriend, bob, vibrator, or anything like that. And you feel, you know, like now you're now something's wrong. Now this and it ju you just go down that rabbit hole. And I think that's what happens with women, and then then the depression can start because now it's like, well, now what? Now, now where what to happen? You know what I mean? Like, where do I go from here?

SPEAKER_04 18:39

Well, I think like you said it, you kind of you've you've gone down a rabbit hole, so then your mind just circulates. Yeah and circulates and circulates, and you never come up with like a forward answer because you're just stuck in that like silo, which that really stinks. That's I think why it's so important to be able to normalize medical and emotional language. What are do you guys have any tips on how we can normalize the medical and emotional language? Especially, you know, not so much just as doctors, but like having these conversations with you know, colleagues or friends or just being able to have these conversations.

SPEAKER_00 19:14

I would say that try to find something that is um because you're stepping out of your comfort zone. That is obvious. So try to find something that is challenging but still manageable. Okay. So Debbie, if if the only thing that you can if if down there is the only way that you can address your genitals, uh maybe find a, I don't know, a medical, just medically refer to it. Because that is also uh by using a medical language, we also kind of neutralize it. Yes, that's a great thing to say. Actually, that's it. I would maybe go with that. Yeah, I would maybe go with that. But then also learning the difference between a vagina, a vulva, because not everyone knows that.

SPEAKER_03 20:04

I honestly I'm just gonna I hate to even put it out there. I I just know it's all together. I don't know. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 20:10

And it's all down there.

SPEAKER_03 20:11

So it's all down there.

SPEAKER_01 20:13

What is the difference? Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 20:15

Yeah, what is the difference?

SPEAKER_01 20:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 20:18

I don't even know. Thank God. Somebody had asked the question, right?

SPEAKER_01 20:28

It's so funny. Like here we are. I was like, well, I could act like oh, of course. Yeah. And I was like, I didn't. I did it.

SPEAKER_00 20:36

Refresher course. Yes. Which is also interesting because we're talking about menopause. Yeah, right. Right. And it's it is so linked to the genitals. Yes. In a way, I mean it's it's obviously not only, but it but it's so linked to it as well. So and in a way that uh so the vulvum is what you can be, it's the outer part of the genitals. So if you go to to a midwife or a giant, you're having uh uh an examination. So once you're in the what do you call it? They kind of call it stirrup.

SPEAKER_03 21:08

Stirrups. So stir up.

SPEAKER_00 21:09

So once you're there, so what I look at yeah. So what I can see just by having you in front of me without taking my speculum and that is the vulva, so it's the outer parts. Okay. Okay. So it's the pubicle bone on top. Okay. Um, and then you have the labia, you have the major, which is the outer, and then then you have the inner labia. And then you have like the the entrance to um to uh to the vagina, and just above it you have the urine. Um what do you call it? Urine in English. Yeah, yeah, thank you. Urethra. And then just above that you have the uh the glands clitoris, which is the clitoral head. Uh huh. Uh huh. And then you have beneath all of that you have the the clitoris, which is then an an organ that is much more than just this tiny little head that everything everyone thinks it is. You have the body inside of that head, which is much bigger. So that would be the vulva, but then everything the inner parts is the vagina. And then you have the cervix connecting the vagina to the uterus and then the fallopian tubes and the ovaries. Yeah. Okay. Very good description.

SPEAKER_04 22:33

All right.

SPEAKER_03 22:38

My progress is coming along. I yeah. At least, at least at least the way the way you described it, I can literally like picture it, even though I don't ever like to look. But I but I I feel like I understand it a little bit more. Um and that would be a great way when you do go to your physician and you are having any, you can actually say where it is. So it just hurts down there. You how does he know until you go down there?

SPEAKER_04 23:05

Yeah. I still point because you're right. Because the way that Maya described it, like there's so many little layers of components before, you know, so he he or she provider needs to know like what exactly is in pain. Because maybe that I mean, and that's a good point too, because I I think a lot of times we don't know how to describe things. So doctors are doing guesswork based off of our like vague descriptions, like, oh, I have a headache. Like, okay, great, you have a headache, take a Tylenol. But you know, it could be like, I have a like I have something happening with my ocular nerve, you know, like if you could describe it better, then you would have a better chance of like getting to the root of the issue and not just like here's a bunch of pills, have a good day.

SPEAKER_00 23:48

Definitely. Which is also if you apply this to uh sexuality, uh if that is with another person or with yourself, if you don't if you don't have the language to communicate um your needs or or even I mean down there is a very it's a very broad.

SPEAKER_03 24:07

Now that now that I think about it, it's very broad. It could even be it could be your size. Shady No, seriously. I'm feeling a little I'm feeling a little bit like misunderstood. Yeah, no, seriously, think about it.

SPEAKER_04 24:26

Yeah, yeah, this is great.

SPEAKER_03 24:28

No, I I've been misunderstood.

SPEAKER_00 24:30

I yeah, I really have. Exactly. What's what do you mean? Because then I need to when you when you say something down there, yeah. I need to like put in my what do I think is down there? And then maybe because it's such a taboo thing, then I don't need really dare to ask because I don't want to make you uncomfortable because it's obvious that you are already a bit uncomfortable, so maybe I just guess and I'm not hitting the right spots at all. Yeah. So it's just totally makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 24:56

Yeah, totally, totally. It really does, but then it also allows us to realize like we have to be like we've been saying all this time, you have to be your CEO, you have to be your own CEO for your body with menopause, right? Somehow, though, we lost the connection to the vagina, like just totally lost it. It's like because when they took HRT away from two generations. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 25:28

But you actually did lose it though. You did. You actually lose it. I mean, there's some women who you're to you, I hate to say dry up, but you dry up and then you think, oh my gosh, what's wrong with me? And you go back to that guilt. But without being able to communicate that to your doctor or even knowing it's okay to ask your doctor that. Yeah, yeah, definitely. You know, I what's what's up with these harm? I never even really realized that once you start your period, you're already on a downhill thing. Like you're starting it and your body's getting ready for babies and this, and then all of a sudden your body's like, I'm done. Yeah. And so I don't want to be done. You know, I I want to be full of energy. I want to not have brain fog. I want to be aware of what's happening around me. And I just feel like it's so unfair. So I'm so happy that we're having these conversations because I don't think women need to wait till they're almost 67, like me, to really have these conversations. You should be having them right away. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 26:22

And the thing is too, sometimes, like for me, I know from my experience, the changeover for having a different provider. Like I would go to the same office, but it would be like a different and then the how comfortable they are talking to like somebody that's like the age of their mom. You know, now that you know what I mean? And like I never had anybody ask if I was having painful sex or intercourse.

SPEAKER_04 26:47

Right.

SPEAKER_01 26:47

I mean, I guess they just assumed if they are, you talk about it. But if I don't want to talk about it, they're not asking, then you leave and you're like, oh, I still don't have that answer. You know what I mean? So I I think it you have to be your CEO when it comes to also your vagina and be like, hey, yes, I am having pain during intercourse or something to start the conversation. Because I think, you know, I don't I don't think them unless they know you and you've just gone back a couple of times, there that maybe they're not even gonna even come over and ask.

SPEAKER_04 27:25

Right. And when we say CEO, that means advocacy. Like you need to advocate for yourself. You have to be your biggest advocate, like, and which requires you to do some legwork. Like, I think a lot of us, uh me, I have fallen in this camp several times myself. Like, I just want like the quick fix. I just want the answer. Like, don't don't make me go down some rabbit hole. Like, literally, I'm the one suffering, right? If you're trying all of these different like modalities or different treatments or pills or patches, like I'm the one that has to go through that. So I think it's a matter of educating yourself so that you can confidently walk into that office, whether it's here, whether it's in Sweden, wherever, and have that conversation with your provider. And I think I think it's a responsibility for us as the patient and a responsibility for the provider to have that educated conversation and both be aware that everybody knows what's happening in the room and and be able to say, let's get to the the solution for you. Because they're they're trained as providers to help us get better and to have a better quality of life. And we are risk now tasked with training ourselves to have that conversation to have a better quality of life. So I think it's a meat in the middle for all of us.

SPEAKER_00 28:37

Yeah, yeah. The sad part is that a lot of uh at least I don't know in the US, um, but at least here a lot of us in health are not being educated to actually have these conversations. When we talk about sexuality is something that we kind of we don't really put a lot of focus on it. Um and it's and I think um that it uh the root of it, I do think that it's because it makes us feel uncomfortable because we don't know how to open that door to our patients. Because we we are still uncomfortable. So um and and you will never get better at it unless you actually challenge yourself. It's through exposure, it's through speaking about uncomfortable things and just staying in the uncomfortable moment and and just breathing it through.

SPEAKER_03 29:29

Okay, I I I I'm in an uncomfortable moment right now, so I'm just gonna share because there could be another woman out there listening. I just know when I was that younger age and going through, you know, hysterectomy, you know, all that kind of stuff. I remember there was a time where I would go into the doctor and say, It really hurts. And I'd say, down there, like it hurts when I, you know, do that. I couldn't even like exc, you know, and he was like, Well, well, what do you mean? I go, Well, it's like like somebody's having a knife just ripping at me. And he would say at some point, well, it's just you just gotta relax. It's all in your mind. And I'm like, but it's not like it hurts, it hurts, it hurts. And yeah, and and you know, try this or try that. And and I think if they would have, you know, continued with the hormones, but oh, you can't do that because it could do cancer or whatever. So like you're gonna be a hairy man. Okay, I don't want to take that. But but it's no, but it's it's really sad because I never really got an answer. I never got an answer saying it mainly was I'm gonna give you some antidepressants. I you know, you you are just and every time you thought about okay, it's almost time to go to bed, oh my god, it's gonna hurt, it's gonna hurt, it's gonna hurt, oh my god, it's gonna hurt. Well, of course it's gonna hurt. That's all you thought about. Right. But then you also need to educate the husband or the boyfriend or the partner to say, hey, I'm really struggling right now. Like, you know, what how how would you like without feeling you're broken, how would you say, I'm I'm struggling? Like it really, really hurts. A lot of them think it's you that you don't like them anymore. So then they think that you're you're doing something wrong. So it's that open conversation. Like, what what how could you describe it? I mean, to say, hey, I I still love you, I want you, I just I don't know what's happening. Right.

SPEAKER_04 31:10

Yeah, that's a great that is such a great point, Debbie. Like, how do you have that? How do you how do you have that?

SPEAKER_03 31:15

What how would you bring that up? If you if you were me, how would you bring that up to your partner without feeling like you're you want to cry and you're broken?

SPEAKER_00 31:24

Like you're the failure. You're a failure. How would you ask that? And I mean the first thing, Debbie, is that what you said, like I might be the that this is really hard. Um so one, it's super brave that you're actually asking it. It's really common. So I don't know if I which is also very sad because it's super common what you just told me. And and I could there are many things in this story that are too common. Like asking for help or trying to reach for help, and then you kind of don't really get the help that you need. Yeah, exactly. You don't know how to ask, but I think that it's I think it's really our responsibility to make it easy for you, for the patients that is actually being very brave and asking something, and we know it's really difficult. I mean, it's not that we don't know that, we know that. So once you have a patient that is actually asking something, um, I think we we have a responsibility to pick it up. Yeah. And like, what do you mean? Do you mean this? Okay, am I could it be this? This is quite you, it's quite normal, it's quite I had heard this before. So I think it's really our responsibility to help you. Um and then I think to have a conversation with a partner, I would really suggest to start by saying, like, this is really hard for me because I'm I'm afraid that this is and then you tell them what why it's hard and you tell them what you're afraid of. And what you just said is is really common that like that my partner might think that I don't love them anymore, that it's something wrong with them, that I'm not attracted enough anymore. Hence it's hurting right now. So I really do think that that is very important to to bring up and maybe to start with it.

SPEAKER_01 33:11

Yeah. And I think that that's when we spoke last was you saying about that intimacy and sexuality are together, right? So I think like the intimacy and like how that forms in your, like you said, anxiety, because you're getting anxious going to bed. You're thinking about it, and you sort of block your brain from having that intimate connection, right? Because you're so focused on the physical part that you know it's gonna be painful. So you don't allow like the romance to start in which might help or might not, but I think that's where like the whole disconnect then starts with your intimacy is disconnected because you're you feel like your sexual parts are not working. And then, you know, how can I feel intimate if I'm anxious and really dreading going to bed and dreading like you, you know, your partner m may, you know, touch you a certain way, and then you're like, oh God, now you just feel that.

SPEAKER_04 34:13

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 34:14

Yeah, and then you just tense up. And I think all of that does play into, you know, the the the mental aspect of it because now you're like, oh my gosh, w what to do. So I think like what we're all saying, like the first part is having that conversation with your partner and not really stopping until you are both on the same page and make sure that they also understand it's not them and you or just you. It's you're going through it together, but you may have to find something different, or you know, like you had mentioned before. But I think that is the connection, like when Debbie said, like, oh, you're going to bed and now you're getting anxious. I'm like, oh my gosh. It's it's very it's like gonna start to play on your mind.

SPEAKER_03 35:02

Or it could go the other way where you want it to be, where you're so excited to be with your partner, you're thinking about it all day. So that helps you when you get to the point. Yeah. So exactly. But if you have those dang hormones, it might help a little bit.

SPEAKER_02 35:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:16

Very true. Yeah. And hormones are important, uh, but a lot of times it's not the solution to everything. It's uh sexuality is much more complex. It's it's a lot about communication. And again, not only with if you have a partner with a a partner, but it's uh it's also very internal communication. And being aware of uh norms that you have learned or what you have learned is um allowed to be sexually okay. And what if that doesn't really resonate with you? What if you don't really like the things that are um kind of uh approved in your society? What if that doesn't is isn't your cup of tea at all? Yeah, uh and then you it might have a little bit of shame. Maybe I don't know, but it's quite common that you feel ashamed because you're not as you know so sexuality is so much more than just um just hormones right or just terms.

SPEAKER_01 36:27

Yeah, or just terms, exactly. Or just saying vagina. It's so it's such a complex thank you. Yeah. And the thing is, we don't ever really talk about it. I mean, talk about like we spoke as young women. You would go up to a colleague at work, hey, do you have a tampon? I need I forgot a tampon, right?

SPEAKER_04 36:48

It was so easy, so easy so normal for us, right? Like, or I oh my god, my do I bleed through, or you know, is this something exactly like so many times, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 36:59

Like I would ask my girlfriend, walk behind me. Do I always say anything? I know anything, right? Don't think every woman has done that, you know. Yeah, exactly. But look, I'm gonna bend down. Anything next? Anything? No. Okay. Where am I at? Exactly. Where am I at on this?

SPEAKER_04 37:16

Everywhere white on these days. Oh exactly. I know.

SPEAKER_01 37:20

And you've gotten out of going to, you know, things that you didn't want to because, oh, you know, I have cramps, or oh my god, I have a huge pimple. Oh my god. Oh my god. So it was so normal. So the conversation, yeah, have a headache. It was so great to hear, like so freeing, actually, to talk about all of that. Yeah. And then it's not even just it starts a menopause. It starts like, you know, and in pregnancy when you have infertility, then you keep that silent. Yeah, right. Debbie, you put that in a silo because now, well, obviously it's all me. It's all me.

SPEAKER_03 37:54

Something's wrong with me. How come I can't have babies? And you're asked by every family member, when are you gonna have a baby? When do you have a baby?

SPEAKER_04 38:00

And your partner too.

SPEAKER_01 38:01

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, you know, and it's just everything. And then you know, you have a pregnancy, and then you have, you know, maybe you have postpartum, and now you keep that silent again because it's like, oh, you don't want anybody to know. It's shameful again. Like, how can you be depressed? You just had a beautiful baby. Why would you be depressed? Like, you who are you gonna say that to, right? And then struggling.

SPEAKER_00 38:26

It doesn't even have to be depressed.

SPEAKER_01 38:28

Depression, just struggling, not just struggling. Exactly. And then you get to menopause. So you've stopped talking about your sexuality and any things that you've had after the asking for a tampon at some point.

SPEAKER_04 38:43

Correct. Right. And that you're so like where? Where you like you had magic. Why? Yeah, where and why. Yeah. Where does it stop? And where does it begin again? Where's the intersection?

SPEAKER_01 38:55

It begins again here with Debbie saying vagina.

SPEAKER_03 38:58

Yeah, like you took a hiatus, and here you are. Yes. I did, but it it's really sad. Like when you hear all of us talking right now, from the time we very first realize we have a period until now. There's this, it's all connected. Everything is connected to down there. It's all connected. And it affects every single stage of your life. It goes from I have cramps, I you know, I I I yeah, I don't know how many times I missed PE and had to make it up because I didn't want to go. So, you know, I I I literally, you know, my mom would write me a note. She cannot do PE today because she's on her period.

SPEAKER_04 39:36

Yeah, handwritten notes. I forgot about those. I forgot.

SPEAKER_03 39:40

You so we're not signing my mom's name. Right. But think about that. There was already something wrong with you then.

unknown 39:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 39:46

There was always something, okay, you have this right now. So we're gonna let you out of PE because you're you're cramping in bed like this, and you're all of that. So you take that and then you move forward to okay, like now maybe it's time to think about having a baby. Oh, infertility, endometriosis. I'm like, oh my God, I'm getting more issues down there. I always here it is again. I'm having surgery after surgery, and then infertility, then you're getting hormone shots, and it continues. So now it continues, then you've done that. Then that leads into, oh, well, maybe we should adopt. So now you got all this other stuff going on because now you're gonna adopt. Then you finally adopt, and then oh, you get pregnant, and then it's a bedridden pregnancy. So then you all of a sudden now you're back in this whole marriage life and you're like, man, I I've had enough down there. Like, leave me alone. Like it the wonder why it hurts. But then at some point, you let go and you hit your 50s and 60s and say, Shit, like I I want to live again. Like, what is it like? I you you know, you miss that whole thing. But again, it starts from there and it ends with there. So it's taking back that power like we're doing now. We're talking talking about hormones and postpartum and you know, menopause, infertility, adoption. Those are all things, but who if you think about it, it's all a frickin' woman thing. I don't understand why that's fair. It's all it is boils down. Yeah, yeah, it's not a woman's thing.

SPEAKER_00 41:11

But it seems like it. Yeah, I absolutely agree with you that it seems like it, but it's not. This is uh it really depends on if you're in a family, if you're in a marriage with with a male. I mean, it's not a female thing. It's a thing also that affects your your partner in in in the response of your partner will affect you. Yes, right. That's how I mean. I think that's yeah. Yeah, so I I really like Yeah no, I under I absolutely understand what you mean, Debbie. I really understand it. And it's quite quite. When does it stop?

SPEAKER_03 41:42

You know, when does the silence end? Where we don't have to wait. When when does the silence stop? Hopefully next. When yeah, when we start talking.

SPEAKER_01 41:51

Yeah, yeah. And we talk about it and then we tell other people and it's sort of like that commercial, and they tell someone and so on and so on and so on. Yeah, you know, because that's the only way. I mean, I I think now with you know, the black box, I always looked at the warning, it was like a blackout, you know, like you would have it like across your mouth, like don't talk about it, you know. So ripping that label off, right, I think is like essentially like ripping our like silence off and just being able to talk about it, like, hey, we finally have the the ability to get the HRT if we, you know, choose to go down that route and you know know that we're trying to be the best that we can talking about it so that way we're not in our late 80s and asking about Bob. Bob.

SPEAKER_04 42:57

Or Susie. Debbie, thank you so much for Jerry because you are so powerful in what you just said. Like, yes, that really was it had a lot of meaning, and I think it will resonate with a lot of women because that is exactly the struggle that I think a lot of women go through silently. And thank you for bringing that to their attention. Seriously.

SPEAKER_01 43:15

Yeah, absolutely, Debbie. I mean, it it's you are so empowering because there are women out there that they think it's just me. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 43:25

Definitely. And you were one of them for a long time. Yeah.

unknown 43:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 43:29

My whole life.

SPEAKER_03 43:30

My whole life until I until I hit 50, and then I finally started thinking, okay, there's gotta be something more out there. Then I had to wait until I was 60, and then then finally I partnered with these amazing women and we're talking about the topic. And at that point, I think I was 65. So really 65 was when I actually first started thinking maybe things can change. Maybe maybe I can become the woman I've always wanted to be. And now it's like I say, my birthday will be it's this well, it just had a birthday, um, apparently, because it's we pre record this. So I'm six so it's it's think as they say six seven. Um think that six seven that it's six seven, I am sixty-seven and I'm finally able to think. I mean, I'm saying this conversation out loud to the whole world right now, guys. This is a big deal. I have been silent, I've been silent my whole life. Yeah, you haven't been silent long enough. Long enough. So today is the day, all of us, if you're out there and you're listening, you need to like stand up tall and be proud and say, hey, I I have a question. And you know, we need to reclaim yourself and your power. Reclaim your power. And as we have some quote, we were we were um, it's I was just gonna share. Your body deserves words, your pleasure deserves language, your comfort matters at every stage of life. So I feel like I'm just now blossoming at 6'7, and I'm ready to see how how far I can hit the road, Jack. Sky's the limit right now. Sky's the limit. Or Bob.

SPEAKER_01 45:05

Hit the road, Bob. I think you you hit it exactly, Debbie, in the fact, like, yes, when we change the language, we change the experience, right? Because you're going to not be fearful, not be shameful. So you're just, you know, if you, oh, I I I didn't say it the right way or whatever, but you're still getting out there talking about it. So you change the language, and then women feel comfortable in their bodies and they learn to love all of you, like everything vagina, vulva, clitoris, like everything, because you just changed the language. And I think that then is how you would choose to um to view menopause. You know what I mean? Like how you like change menopause and how you feel about it. Yeah. That was my little timer being like, hey, okay, talk about talk about the pause. Talk about the pause.

SPEAKER_04 46:00

I was like, get it.

SPEAKER_01 46:03

Let's go. And this is why sometimes we do not edit out some things because it's very true. That is the um NFL theme. And hey, you know, you two you. If that's how you need to baby with Dino. Oh, Super Bowl, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 46:26

Just passed it though.

SPEAKER_04 46:28

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's your Super Bowl right now. You're in your super.

SPEAKER_03 46:31

You're in your Super Bowl. Catch that pass and throw it. Yes.

unknown 46:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 46:35

Yeah. Wow, that was more football terminology than I ever thought you'd not. I do know pass. Because I didn't even know that.

SPEAKER_03 46:42

Oh, come on. It's a foot you throw a football to another guy in the end of the field and he catches it and makes it touch.

SPEAKER_04 46:49

Not my first thing.

SPEAKER_01 46:51

I love it, Debbie. But I mean, do you, Maya, do you agree with like just changing all of the way women think about it will help them being able to talk about it and hopefully finding some satisfaction earlier?

SPEAKER_00 47:08

Yeah, definitely. Definitely. And when I say satisfaction, I don't necessarily mean to orgasm. I for me, it's about feeling comfortable with yourself. To be able to go to the medical doctor and say and be specific and not it hurts down there. Or just be compliant with a with an answer that is not helping you. So for me, satisfaction in the power of words is not just, I don't link it only to sexual pleasure, I link it also to your well-being of your everyday. Right.

SPEAKER_04 47:45

Because when you walk out and you've been heard and you feel like you've worked with your provider, there's a whole different like vibe about you. You know, you walk out and you're like, you feel empowered, you feel confident, you're like, okay, I have I have a plan, I I know what's happening, they know what's happening, so now we're working together. Like there's like a synergy there, right? Yeah. And I think that changes the whole thing because you know, as we've said before, like hormones are not the answer to every single thing when it comes to menopause. It's creating less stress. And by creating less stress, you're having those better open conversations with your partner, with your your provider, with your family. You know, so that that is encompassing a lot of different things.

SPEAKER_01 48:24

Yeah. And I think that's it's just I I love this conversation. And I also have to just do a quick note that this is, you know, it's a lived experience, that conversation. It's not medical advice, but that we have said before. If you do and are struggling with any of these um issues, that please find a provider that can help help you and understand you and you know and you know, so that way everybody can have a good, satisfying experience. Yes. Yes, Dairy. In dairy. So yeah, Debbie, again, thank you. It was just it was just great to hear you like you went above and beyond, well past saying the word. Oh you did it, Debbie.

SPEAKER_03 49:11

Yeah, thanks for your honesty and for sharing. Yeah, I I it's a privilege. Thank you. It's it's it w it's tough though. It really is tough, but I I would like to do a call to action, okay? Since you these women had me practice and be ready for this conversation from our last show. So it would be if you are a Debbie out there and you've been silent, practice saying one atom atomic, what is that word? Anatomic. I might talk a word out loud today. Whatever that word, it could be the vagina word. Or see, I said it, I had to throw it in there slowly. Yes. Um also share that episode with this. You know, share our episode with somebody you feel that will give them permission to feel normal. And don't forget, you can always visit menopals.com, M-E-N-O-P-A-L-Z.com for more conversations that brings clarity, comfort, and confidence. It's really important because we are here for you. That's the whole point about having these podcasts. But we have way more than podcasts. So please visit menopals.com. We are your pals, we are your friends, and I'll let Mare take it out from there.

SPEAKER_01 50:23

I am not gonna take anything else out of there. I am letting you close this segment because that was amazing. That really I usually say is that we will see you next Tuesday. But I mean, that's just a funny thing. But Debbie, that was very empowering, and we're gonna let you take it from there. I say thank you to everyone. Thank you, Maya. It was just great to be global again. And uh yeah, I I'm glad that we started the the conversation. So let's keep it going. A pleasure. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 50:53

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 50:54

And see you next Tuesday, because I do love that saying. See you next Tuesday. See you next Tuesday.