Episode 47 Intimacy and Body Shaming why does it increase in Menopause???

This episode explores the emotional and psychological aspects of menopause, focusing on body image, inner critic, and self-compassion. We share insights with Maya, a certified midwife from Sweden on how women can navigate body shame, improve self-talk, and foster intimacy and connection during this transformative phase.

Disclaimer: This is general information and education. This is not therapeutic or medical advice. 

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Hi everyone, and welcome to Take a Pause with Mini Pals, where we will talk about the pause and all of her glory and not so glory, but the conversation will always be real, honest, and a little bit funny because we have to find humor in what is happening with us during this midlifetime. So let's sit back, relax, grab some coffee, and get ready to laugh. And today I have my partners in Menipa's, Raquel and Debbie, with me again. Hello, my lovely co-host. And we are so happy to have Maya with us again, who is a nurse midwife in Sweden. As we said before, we're gum and global. If you remember, we talked with Maya in our um Let's Talk About Sex series, part one and two.

SPEAKER_05 0:52

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 0:52

And um, yeah, so we just wanted to say welcome and we're so happy to be here and talking about body image and the inner critic during menopause, which tends to get she gets a little cranky. She's not real nice to you. So a little cranky, that's such a little cranky. So it's a very nice way to say that. Thank you. I tried. Thank you. So welcome, Maya.

SPEAKER_04 1:21

Thank you very much. Good to see you again, Maya. I mean, it's been just like a couple months. Well, no, not even that, a couple weeks. You lose time in menopause, too. Did I mention that? Yeah. The whole fog, the whole brain fog, like, where am I? Yeah. Who am I? Am I here? Yeah. I know it's so funny. I I sent a text to a friend. We have um, we had a big event at the end of March, and it was um the City of Reno gave us a proclamation for the work that we do with menopause. And in the middle of my invites, I was telling people, like, you know, you're a really big supporter for me when I couldn't even recognize myself. So I really appreciate you. And it was like that really hit home for me on like today's topic, right? Because I didn't even recognize myself, much less them knowing me. So I would love to dive in and talk more about this.

SPEAKER_01 2:14

Yes. And what what you know, as what you see, because you, you know, deal with women and have patients and clients that you deal with. So it's, you know, we know um we're global with this podcast, but we know it's a global um issue with women. So without further ado.

SPEAKER_02 2:34

Maya. Yeah. Uh some of you said uh just before we started that um that the inner critic uh was not really a new thing uh that hit um or kind of invaded your life during menopause. So you have always had it. Yeah. It just really, really, really got accentuated or increased during menopause.

SPEAKER_04 3:00

Yeah, it's such an interesting thing. I wonder why, like, in our in our psyche, like why that why we want to beat ourselves up so badly.

SPEAKER_01 3:12

I don't know. I mean, for me, I think it was just like you feel like you are losing control in everything, right? Like you can't you can't control your sleep, you can't control the weight gain, you can't do anything. You're sort of out of sorts, and then you f super hyper focus on things that you think you can control, like your hair. And that's it, now it's getting thin and it doesn't look right. And why is my hair so horrible? And why doesn't it look like it did when I was in my 20s? And it just goes on from there. And then, you know, why don't I look like myself in the jeans that you know, and yeah, it's a you can't button the jeans, or you look in the mirror and go, Who am I?

SPEAKER_05 3:54

And then you see all these other women out there that are stunning and perfect. You see all the ads, and I think the image of every time you look on social media with all the filters, so there's way more filters now. So when you look, you're like, is that dumb? Is that not dumb? Is that AI generated? Is that AI generated? But it really does, I think, affect it, it affects all women. I think, especially even the younger generation, I mean, even though they're used to seeing it, I don't think we really ever know what somebody looks like if you're only on social media. And and I don't know, is there a difference? Like as we get older and we go through all these hormone changes, it is it in our psyche, is it our hormones, is it social? What makes women? I'm sure men too, men too. But I know for women starting at a young age, even like you're as a teenager, when you get your period, your e your hormones start kicking in. But is there a way that we can talk to ourselves to help help not be so critical? Because I know I am way, we're all more critical. People look at us and see totally a different version that we see. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 4:58

And I don't understand why. Like at work, I will, you know, just kind of bringing it back to like the HR perspective, like human resources. I I I couldn't, I mean, I know Mare had problems performing at work, but there were times where I just was so spun that like I couldn't get out of bed. So there was no reason for me to, you know, I couldn't even work. So people are are really losing their confidence at work and because you have had so much control for so long. And I think like you will power yourself into so many situations because you're designed to just push through. And when you push through and then you can't any longer, like the push through comes and pushes you back.

SPEAKER_06 5:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:38

Yeah, it really does. It really does. And I think that I I do wonder if we would ever speak to a good friend the way we speak to ourselves. See, never would do. We never would.

SPEAKER_04 5:52

Not in a million years.

SPEAKER_02 5:53

No, exactly. You would never tell a friend, like, oh, you look hideous in those jeans.

SPEAKER_04 5:58

Well, I don't know.

SPEAKER_05 5:59

I I would say that. She would say it, and my boys, when uh they were teenagers, and I would like think that I was, you know, wait, I shouldn't be wearing a certain pair of jeans. They'd go, Mom, I just don't know whether you should leave the house like that. I'm like, what? They're like, I think it's a little too young for you. I'm like, thank you.

SPEAKER_06 6:19

Right.

SPEAKER_05 6:20

Because I, but then at some point we do realize I think as you age, certain outfits don't look good on you anymore. I mean, I think we we need to be aware of some things in your closet. You're like, I wore that 20 years ago or 10 years ago or even two years ago, and now I've put it on. And I'm like, I look like a TV bot. Like, what the heck? So I I think that, you know, even clothes come in. So there's so many things that come into body image.

SPEAKER_04 6:45

Yeah. There are. I always think think like the style's gonna come back, so I save it.

SPEAKER_05 6:49

It does come back, but then it never looks the same on it.

SPEAKER_04 6:52

It never does. Oh my god, that is such a good point. Like literally, it never looks the same on you. Like I like put it on and I'm all, oh, this is gonna be cute. I'm like, oh my god.

SPEAKER_05 7:02

Because you're literally 10, 15 years older when the style comes back.

SPEAKER_04 7:06

Yeah. Our bodies do not, yeah, unless you're prolific. What learning from this is I'm gonna just sweep through my closet this weekend. We need to do that.

SPEAKER_05 7:14

Yes. Go through.

SPEAKER_02 7:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 7:17

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 7:17

What I mean is more that that we can because it's good to tell each other when things don't work at all, when we actually look bad in something. So I don't think that is not that is actually quite kind to tell someone like you actually don't look you look much better on this the color or whatever it is. But sometimes the tone uh that we use to ourselves is something that we would never ever do to someone else. And I think we need to remember that because sometimes we're much kinder to others. And we shouldn't lose to be kind to others. I think there needs to be much more kindness in this world. Um we need to be kind to ourselves as well and understand, just like you're saying, that we are actually the age that we are, and we cannot expect our bodies to be the way we used to be, because we're not. It's it's just it's not it's not that I don't have the will, it's not yeah, it it's it's just we cannot do anything about it.

SPEAKER_04 8:18

I and willing yourself to do it is not going to work. Believe me, I've tried it.

SPEAKER_01 8:23

But I think what you're like how you're saying it, Maya, like how you would say to a friend, it's not like a girlfriend that is thriving and is in the best part of her life, or you're like, girl, hey, those genes. No. It's you're struggling. So your friend is like struggling and trying to find themselves. Like you would not say to somebody who doesn't feel good about herself or is like struggling to go to work to give a presentation, like, girl, no, you would be so kind and be like, you look great, you're fine, you're doing this. I don't know. You can do this. So I think like yeah. So I think, like you said, there there is a difference because you know, when you're with your girlfriends and you're having fun and thriving, it's different than when you're trying to survive and struggling and talking to yourself, I think would make a world difference to talk to yourself like you would a friend at that time.

SPEAKER_04 9:21

Yeah, I think that making it a safe conversation too is so important. You know, I think like that is one thing I learned along the whole way is uh of my journey of a perimenopause is just making a safe space. You know, safe safety in your nervous system goes a long, long way. Which I which I read somewhere, like your nervous system doesn't know the difference between like super stress or if you're being chased by a lion. And I just don't want my nervous system to always feel like I'm being chased by a lion. Yeah. I do feel like that sometimes. Seriously, like, and you just don't know the difference, you know, like your internal systems don't know that difference. So I think finding safety in like yourself and your conversations with yourself, and that is a brilliant way to look at it, Maya. Is like, would you have that conversation with your friend? I I'm gonna stop myself from here on out and have that conversation with myself before I start talking about myself. Totally makes sense. Yeah, yeah. Um, so I'm kind of curious, why do you think women speak in these ways to themselves as they get further in their journey of perimenopause?

SPEAKER_02 10:37

Yeah. That's a very good question. And I'm again, I'm not sure that this is something that they haven't done before. Um yeah. Um I think it gets worse because like you're saying, there's so much that you that people think that might have been working.

SPEAKER_06 10:55

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 10:57

Uh you said that you lose control, and you do, you lose control because you're not. Um and a lot of times we're not in control anyways, uh, of things that we think that we are in control. Life happens. Yeah. And we handle it.

SPEAKER_04 11:11

How does it trickle down to intimacy and relationships?

SPEAKER_02 11:15

Yeah, that's also a really good question. Um, I mean, if you what I normally meet um is that if you because you don't have to be young and beautiful to to be um to ask these questions. You can be, I mean you can s you can be young and beautiful and still ask these questions. Like how how does my perception of myself actually affect me and my relationship with with myself? Because primarily the relate whatever relationship you you have, it primarily starts with you, with your relationship with yourself. And then how does that affect any other relationship with someone else? And if you're not comfortable, if you're trying to hide yourself uh in any meeting, uh if that would be I don't like my stents, I don't like how my hair looks, I I don't like how I am I normal, am I not normal? All of that affects you and and it trickles down to being able to relax, to to uh be in the moment, to uh to enjoy whatever whatever you're doing.

SPEAKER_04 12:22

Or what is a tricky question too? Like, am I normal or am I not normal? Like, what do we even define that by? You know what I mean? Like, what's the gauge? There's no indicators.

SPEAKER_01 12:30

Yep. When you said that, I was like, that's it. Yeah. Because you know, you're trying to grasp normalcy, and it's it's you you don't feel normal. You're like, I I remember I went to a provider when I was in perimenopause, didn't know it, nobody said it, you know, and I guess I should have known, maybe. I don't know. How could you? I know, but you went there and I was like, you know, I my skin on my legs hurt. Like my muscle like hurt, like hurt. And he was like, Yeah, um, maybe try a macrobiotic diet. And I was like, eating cabbage, eating cabbage is gonna help me feel normal.

SPEAKER_05 13:11

I don't think you're gonna feel normal.

SPEAKER_01 13:13

No, I'm gonna tell you.

SPEAKER_05 13:14

I'm gonna tell you it's a lot of gas. So I was trying that's what I was trying to say without saying it.

SPEAKER_01 13:21

Oh yeah, I'll tell you. I'll tell you, girl. No, no, that will that will take the normal put it right out there. No, not normal at all. But you know, you you don't feel normal because you're like, your stomach is not right. You're and then, you know, try to find intimacy. Oh, yeah, right.

SPEAKER_04 13:43

You clear the room, nobody's getting intimidated.

SPEAKER_01 13:47

You just need to be in the privacy of your own car. That's what I say.

SPEAKER_04 13:52

I'll be sleeping in the car this week.

SPEAKER_05 13:55

We hit the rabbit hole.

SPEAKER_04 13:57

We always hit the rabbit hole. It's like a speed bump.

SPEAKER_05 14:00

Yeah. So for what I wanted I wanted to ask to our audience, what does your voice sound like when you talk to yourself? Yeah. Seriously, are you wanna know is it supportive? Is it critical? Are are are like are are you saying things like, you know, I'm not enough? You know, what you may want to say, you know, I am enough. But it's so hard, I think, for women and men to say, I am enough. I think it takes it takes a lot of work, and I don't know whether it's because of as a child, maybe you were always told you could do better, you can do this, or relationships, or you've had rejection, or but I I feel like even though all that's happened, if you surround yourself with the right people that will say to you, you know what, Deb, you are enough. Raquel, you you know, look, you look incredible today. And Mayor, you know what, you've been working really hard on this, and I'm really proud of you. Thank you. You know, I I feel like we need to always be ready to find that something when you're with your friends. Look for something that you could say that's positive. Yeah, truthful. You know, I I mean it could be your hair is really shiny today, or I love your new hairstyle. Oh, yeah. Or those new glass frames, they look great on you. But I think it's those little tiny things that if we start saying that we notice about other people, hopefully we can look in the mirror and go, you know, I don't look so bad today. I'm gonna have a good day, or my hair looks good today. I I think those are I'm hoping if you're listening that you're gonna look in the mirror and say, I'm enough and be proud. And right, you may have to say it a lot of times till you really believe it, but surround yourself, you know, with good people that are gonna build you up and not tear you down. I think that's super important.

unknown 15:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 15:51

I hope that if you're listening, you show up for other people as much as they show up for you, you know, because I think a lot of times we are so anxious to like talk about ourselves, we we lose sight of other people. And so I think like for me, being a good friend includes like showing up and asking questions. And to Debbie's point, like I even if I have a million things going on in my life, I'll I'll stop and I'll be like, hey, you know what? I'm just checking on you. Or she does that.

SPEAKER_06 16:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 16:18

Or, hey, you know what, this is great. Or even if I have the biggest story in the world that I want to tell and I can't wait to tell it, I let them talk about themselves first. And I've worked on that a lot of years, like because I it's just one of those things that I noticed as I kind of came up in the ranks of like aging, you know, like people just never want to hear about anybody else's stuff, they just want to talk about themselves. So I thought, you know, I'm gonna reposition myself and I'm gonna let them get it off their chest. And then I don't feel like I have less of a value in the conversation because I'm able to like they've talked now, I it's my turn to talk. Yeah, sometimes that doesn't work out though. I mean, people still want to just keep talking about themselves. So but it's it's definitely true. Like, I think being being that good friend includes listening even when you have things that you want to talk about. Definitely. What is one shift that you think can help women move away from body shame and like get back into the intimacy world besides the cabbage? Yeah, definitely the cabbage.

SPEAKER_05 17:25

No cabbage, no cabbage, no cabbage, just no cabbage. Pineapple, maybe, but no cabbage.

SPEAKER_01 17:31

Yeah, I can't. You swear to God, Debbie. I swear to God.

SPEAKER_05 17:35

It's very healthy. Pine it's not what I've heard. Pineapple is very healthy for a woman. Out of a man.

SPEAKER_04 17:42

We've been doing a lot of nutrition courses lately. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 17:47

Um I would say that, because you've been saying that a lot of us uh or I hear I I face this all the time that a lot of people have really struggled to say, like I am enough. Um I did this very well, or I am doing great. Um I'm not sure if it means that it's um a contradiction. Yeah. What are you laughing at?

SPEAKER_05 18:13

You know, we're keeping it real. There's just sometimes when I feel like we need to laugh at ourselves, and I do that a lot. Because sometimes, you know, you have a thought in your mind and you have a memory and it comes back and you giggle. So maybe when you're feeling down yourself, you kind of remember something funny.

SPEAKER_01 18:32

I was just choking on tea, so I'm sorry. Oh, I saw. I was like, oh, she's muting herself because she's like, I knew you didn't do the universal sign of choking, so you were okay.

SPEAKER_04 18:42

Yes, I was breathing just actively choking.

SPEAKER_01 18:48

But yes, go ahead.

SPEAKER_02 18:49

Sorry, go ahead, Maya. Um no, but what I meet a lot of times is that um that I think that there's a concept that being good enough means um or that we all that we're all striving to actually do better, be better. Um but from my perspective that is not a contradiction to that you're actually doing really great right now. So what I mean is that when people sometimes people really struggle to say like, oh, I'm I'm doing this good, I'm doing a good job, or I'm I'm being a good friend. Um and I just want to point out that it's not a contradiction that we can still work on being a better friend or a more generous person or a kinder person or whatever we want to improve, but we can also just kind of like take a pause, like you always say. Yeah, yes, we're proud of what we're achieved, what we're in the process of doing, uh, without being it a contradiction to that things might evolve, because things always evolve. We we we are better friends and worse friends sometimes. I mean we so I see that a lot with my patients, that they they kind of see that if I say that I'm good, then I think I'm fulfilled that I don't need to work on this, and it's really not it's it's kind of like you need to like there's no contradiction here. Yeah, yeah. Maybe that makes it a little bit easier for them to say that no, I'm actually doing great.

SPEAKER_05 20:28

So here's a question. How can how can you help your partners or your friend in the workplace? Um when you hear them talking self the self-neck self-negative talk, how can you I don't want to say stop stop, but how can you gracefully uh come into conversation and and say, you know what, I think you know what what do you say? When you are hearing your friend self-negative talk and you're like enough, like stop, because it gets annoying because I do it to myself. And I'm lucky that I have somebody that'll go, like, Deb, what the heck? You know, you should you're fine. But is there some way we could gracefully tell our friend, you know, you're okay? You're safe.

SPEAKER_02 21:14

Yeah, I mean, I think that you can say just like you said, Deb, like you can like I don't know how to say this to you, but in from my perspective, you're doing great. I hear you saying X, Y, and Z. And I see this. Yeah. So I think I'm acknowledging uh a a little what you said before, Raquel, that to make them that you I'm listening to you, I hear what you're saying. I just don't agree with it.

SPEAKER_04 21:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:41

And you don't need to agree with it. But and with kindness, I think that we g we get a long way with kindness.

SPEAKER_04 21:48

Yeah, yeah. I read something powerful not too long ago that said like pain likes to live in the dark. So if you bring it forward, you're bringing it to the light. And light you know, when you shine light on things Everything's better, in my opinion. I'm I'm also a fair weather person, full disclosure. But I honestly think it's true. Like, you know, we talk about a lot about traumas and things that have impacted us, but bringing those things from the darkness or the shame and into the light, like to me, that is that is so powerful because it's like, yeah, I live through that. Yeah, I came up from that. Yeah, I did that.

SPEAKER_01 22:29

And I think that's something though, too, that women um, you know, and like Debbie said, you know, maybe men too, but this is a podcast about women. So not not not to live leave out the boys, but we're not gonna leave them out now. We're not gonna leave them out. But what I'm saying is, um, you know, for everything is always kept quiet because of the shame built around it, right? You have like we had spoken before, there's infertility. There's women, so now I don't want to say anything. All of my friends are getting pregnant, and they're now asking, why am I not? And oh, you know, you don't want so you keep it silent. You you know, you're in menopause, you don't know it, but you you're silent there. You know, it's you're a new mother and you're having trouble breastfeeding. And you who do you're gonna ask? Because everybody around you thrive doing it. They're like, you know, oh, I have no problem. So you put yourself in that little corner and you keep silence because you're embarrassed and obviously I'm not doing something. And it's always that like I I I would love for women, myself included, because I I do always do this, but I'm working on it. I've I've been reading so many Mel Robbins books, like Dear God, she keeps me on point. Yeah, she keeps me on point. But you know, like how to instead bring it to light. Like, don't put it in the corners. Like, you know, if you can't, if you're having trouble breastfeeding, get it out there. Ask everybody in the, you know, in the lunch circle at work. There are so many women that they've had issues and they've had maybe they've had success, and they can help share with you what it is. So that's usually like at work. I and I I know we all do, but I'll like say menopause, brain fog, I bring it. And then that allows women to say, oh, this is a safe place. And then they start, well, you know, I do have this, and you know, they'll catch you in the hallway at work and ask the questions. And that's how I feel like everything should be for women because we're so prone to just take it, put it in the dark, and just keep it silent.

SPEAKER_04 24:38

Yeah, bring it to the light, bring it to the light, ladies. Yeah, and men, anybody that's struggling with any kind of darkness, bring it to the light.

SPEAKER_01 24:46

Yes, yeah, just like Carol Ann, Carol Ann, go to the light. I mean, you gotta do that.

SPEAKER_04 24:52

Yeah, I mean, and there's just such a freedom that comes with that. I was listening to Mel Robbins actually last night, and she was saying oh God, I love her. But she was saying, like, you know, when you get to the end of your life, don't be that person that just sits there and like poo-poos your friends and is sitting in the in the dark and all quiet and like judging them because they're doing the things you want to do. Like you've always wanted to do that, but your friends are doing it, and you're just sitting around like self-loathing the whole situation. Don't do that. Go put yourself out there and do the same things because it's just as scary for them as it is gonna be for you. Right. And I don't want to get to the end and say, I wish I did, because I don't want to have that regret. So these are my good old days.

SPEAKER_05 25:31

But I think here's something else that happens with our minds with the self-talk. We're in a room or we're at an event and we think a person is thinking something about us, and it's just or we think they said something or we're not sure. So we automatically go to, oh, she doesn't like me. Oh, I didn't do this, or what did I do wrong? And instead of going up and say, Yeah, are we cool? Did I say something wrong? Yeah, because I really feel like a lot of times we bring on that negative and we didn't even need to. They weren't even thinking that, but we always go to that place of yeah, what did I do? And we may have done nothing, but in our mind, and they may be thinking that of us. I when I mean I've had that happen where someone's like, Did I do something to upset you? I'm like, no, I adore you. She's like, whoo, I'm glad I asked you because I was thinking that somebody said this, and I'm like, no, I I I don't know where that, but thank you. I said thank you for coming to me because I would hate that you thought that I was thinking that. So I really think it's that honesty to have perception and perception and to have those conversations. And I'm sure it's happened to all of us where we just assume somebody knew something or didn't know something. And yeah, it's it's that open conversation. I think that will help us with our self-talk if we just are ready to be open about what we're thinking and don't hide like you said, come in the light, be honest, be open, yeah, be kind.

SPEAKER_04 26:54

So and it having like that freedom and uh, you know, the the light shown on those things that you know you are you're always hiding, it really brings you to the forefront. Like you're able to perform better, you're able to perform better in your work, your career, like all aspects of your life, your communication with your children improves, like you know, you can have better conversations with your partner, which I think that in itself goes into intimacy because that's a huge part of it from what you've t taught us before. Yes, yes, yes, so true.

SPEAKER_01 27:27

You're absolutely right, because intimacy that you know was my aha moment is you know different hand in hand, but is different than sexuality and the intimacy if you bring it out there and then because they don't know, you know what I mean? And with all fairness, I mean my husband, if he heard half of the 10,000 comments that are in my head, he would know same, same he would be exhausted by the end of the day, but he doesn't know, so like you're you're acting like, oh, you're fine, but really you're like my back hurts, my leg hurts, my shoulder I injured working out, and you just sort of have that communication, and then you feel supported because they're like, Oh my god, what can I do? You know what I mean? So yeah, I think that's spot on. Like Raquel, like said, we did learn that from you though, last two.

SPEAKER_04 28:18

You look at that, you can teach an old dog new tricks. Of course you can. I know I'm learning a lot.

SPEAKER_02 28:28

Yeah. But I think that's my the perspective that I have because I look at sexuality and sexual health and intimacy as from a very holistic point of view. Um so I see it as something much much bigger than than just sex, as as a lot of people kind of narrows it down. Yeah. And and we know that studies really show that to have a fulfilling sex life, it's not really about the sex itself, it's really about the communication about it. Yeah. Which is talking about it, like you said, Mayor. Um but you can communic uh communicate in so many ways. And not just by words. And we do communicate all the time in many ways, uh apart in um adding to the words that we say by how we look at each other, how we don't look at each other, how we prioritize the phone, maybe, rather than the partner or the conversation, or how we our mind drifts away, or how we there's so much we we communicate.

SPEAKER_04 29:32

Um I'm bad at that. I I will definitely be standing in a room and my husband will be talking, and I won't hear three-quarters of what he says. And I'm like, and then I think to myself, well, if I could just hear like the last couple bits, I can put the rest together.

SPEAKER_01 29:49

No, you can't. I've tried it. It it does not, it does not.

SPEAKER_04 29:55

And then I get like, you didn't listen to me again. I'm like, no.

SPEAKER_02 30:01

Exactly. And that affects the relationship in a way, because we all want to be listened to, we all want to be seen. It's very much I see you. Yes. You've been talking about feeling safe, have a safe space, and you need to have that. Uh to have a deeper connection almost. Yeah, definitely. Definitely because you lose it, you lose the connection.

SPEAKER_01 30:24

Yes. And then if we have, you know, the better com communication and everything, when they do hear us and they do see us, they hear us talk the negative talk, they'll be the ones to be like, you know, you're you're fine. You look great. Please don't talk about yourself, you know, and so it's like you need that. I saw an interview this years ago, and there was a woman that said, you know, change is not done drastically. It's a little whittle at a time. And she was like, you know, if you think of like all these like bottles on a conveyor belt and they're just turning before they put the cap on, it's just a little bit at a time before you get to that other side of the conveyor belt, it's a complete switch. It's a complete change, but it's just a little bit at a time. And I think the communication feeling seen, but also seeing your partner and making them feel seen also. Yeah, value something.

SPEAKER_05 31:20

So speaking about seeing your partner and being seen, so a quest uh a question for the listeners, but it's also for us to maybe ask for them. So do you think do you think many people are protecting themselves from intimacy because they're afraid their partner might see their parts of themselves that they struggle to accept?

SPEAKER_02 31:40

I would say my spontaneous uh would be yes, but I but I'm not sure that they're really hiding it from the partner, or rather more More than themselves. Yeah. That you don't want to acknowledge I mean, no one wants to acknowledge that I'm grumpy or I can be selfish or I can be mean, I can be jealous. No one wants, I mean, it's not nice to to see those sides of yourself, or that I don't like, or my breasts are really abnormal because well, so yeah.

SPEAKER_05 32:07

So I was talking I was talking more about your body image because as you go through menopause, you've got the tummy thing, you got different issues. And I know there's women out there who want the lights off, you know, because they they they're ashamed or they feel uncomfortable with their body. So they I wish I you can just go, yeah, this is who I am. I be and there's so many women who are so comfortable and they love their bodies no matter and thank you for being out there, you guys who do that, because you show us that you are beautiful inside and out. And and I want women to get to, I want to get to that point where I can say, This is who I am, and you like it or you don't like it, and I want to feel sexy either way. But I do think that your body image affects how you are in the bedroom. Of course it does. Okay. So how do you how do you get past that? How do you like accept yourself with flaws and all?

SPEAKER_02 33:01

I think that one of the first things that you need to understand or is or to learn is that uh there's a lot of different types of bodies. We look very different. Um and we have like an like a norm that is very hard to fulfill. Yeah. Even when you're 20 or 16 and your body is like super tight and your muscles and and you look great. Uh we can't. That's true too. Yeah, very few of us look like models. We and and the models don't even look like they do in the magazines or in the videos because they are also Yeah, we're under you guys. We're trying to like pursue something that is not I mean it's not it's not fair for us to try to be what we're it's impossible for us to be that. Yeah. And I think that if we understand that we look different. Uh you have actually ad campaigns, you have campaigns now that you have actually, at least here in Europe, that you can see models for underwear that are not all thin and super super tall and really you see a little bit of empty or many different types of of bodies and stats. Yeah. And that makes me really happy because you see people with stretch marks, with uh with a tummy, with scars, with scars, definitely. Yeah, yes, exactly. You see all of this, and then you're like, oh, maybe I'm maybe I'm normal, maybe I'm not the only one on this entire planet. But if you think about it statistically, you're probably not the only one with stretch marks. Most definitely. But you kind of feel that way. Yeah, because you don't see it, we hide.

SPEAKER_04 34:42

Yeah. And you do. I I have been wearing a two-piece for the last couple years. I'm very proud of her. Yeah, thank you, thank you. Because I decided I don't care anymore. Like, good. If you babies, you know that stretch marks is probably a symptom of having babies. Yes. Before I started wearing this two-piece, I thought everybody was just gonna be like, oh my god, look at her stretch marks. And what I've learned is people are like are like, oh my god, look at you, you're wearing that two-piece. And I'm like, oh yeah, totally. And I'm totally comfortable in it now. But it took like a it took some time. I think it's like public speaking, right? Like you could get on that stage and you're gonna be a nervous wreck, but you have to keep taking those first steps to do it. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 35:25

Yeah, you do have to, yeah, exactly. Deb, this is the answer to your question. Like, how do we do that?

SPEAKER_05 35:30

You just step out and do it. Do it.

SPEAKER_02 35:33

But start with, I mean, we need to push our boundaries. I mean, start small. Yeah. You don't need to go around, I don't know, you don't need to go to a nudist beach if you don't want to. Oh no, no, no, no. Not quite there yet. Baby steps, baby steps.

SPEAKER_05 35:47

But I remember I have to say Raquel when she talks about that. I I maybe it was two years ago when you started where you were like on the boat. They do a lot of boating. And I'm like, look at her on socials. She's like sitting on the boat. And like, you know, look, I go, oh my gosh, you look how sexy. She looks so beautiful. I'm like, I still got my, I still have my, you know, the that tankini thing with the hiding my tummy and covering my little, my bigger bottom. So, but I would love to get to the point. I wish we could all get to that point. And we can say, well, I want to wear this today.

SPEAKER_00 36:24

You're just gonna wear it and not say about your bigger butt. Let's yeah. You look beautiful.

SPEAKER_05 36:31

Say, but we're gonna practice that because mayor's coming to town and and we're gonna we're gonna we're gonna get her out and about and we're gonna take her to the hot Carson City hot springs. And maybe I'll wear it. Bring it to your beats, girl. Bring it to your next one.

SPEAKER_01 36:45

There we go. We're gonna we're gonna okay. So let's to recap, we are going to encourage each other. And yeah, and we we won't post any pictures. We're not there yet, but we will all be in two pieces at a hot springs, and we will not self uh negative talk about each other. We'll encourage each other, and then we'll have Maya back on and we'll let you know how that went. And you will help us get out of the comfort zone. I mean, Debbie now says vagina. Yeah, I do.

SPEAKER_05 37:22

I said it to my doctor. He went, whoop, did it? Yeah, I do.

SPEAKER_00 37:27

I said it. Yes. This is like a self-growing.

unknown 37:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:31

This is a self-growing podcast. So okay, we have her saying the vagina. Like, she's gonna be put some water on us. We're gonna, yes, we're gonna be, you know, not negative. And then when we get together again with you, Maya, we'll be like, okay, this is how it went. I um didn't get out of the hot springs to say, you know, no. I've been running around it, just don't even care.

SPEAKER_04 37:53

We'll let you know. We'll send you pictures, we'll text you.

SPEAKER_01 37:58

But um, I I think this is such a a great conversation and that's something that everybody, like the listeners, can just think about and just ask yourselves this like the questions that Debbie was asking, like, why do I do it and how can I not do it? It's as simple as that.

SPEAKER_05 38:20

And here's one more thing for me to end with my chatterbox Debbie thing. So at the end at the end of the day, intimacy isn't about perfection. It's about feeling safe enough to be seen and learning to see ourselves the same and learning to see ourselves the same kindness that we offer others. So really it comes back to being seen and being kind. So out there listening, we see you, we love you. And if you want to message us and share your insecurities, your questions, we want you to know we are we're we see you and we are right there by your side, and we are you. So that's why we want to have these podcasts. And there's no judgment. No judgment with us.

SPEAKER_04 39:04

No, but we're here for you. We have heard some really incredible stories along our journey, and yeah, it is incredible the amount of strength that comes from that to like know that you're not alone and other people are experiencing the same types of things that you do, and the same things go through other people's minds that go through your mind, it really lessens that gap of feeling alone.

SPEAKER_01 39:25

Yeah. And that's you know what we like, we are not alone. And that I have learned so much from you, Maya. And I thank you because I think you're an inspiration to women to for a woman. You are like the perfect person to speak to a woman to be like, hey, like you're okay. This is a a normal, natural process, and you are beautiful within and out. So I feel that you are beautiful from within and out, and I just kindness is everything, and I think that is something that we need to show more people, but we need to also show ourselves that too.

SPEAKER_02 40:03

Yeah, definitely. Yeah, that's a good idea. May I add one thing? Yeah, just comments uh that I'm thinking right because it it's very it comes down very much to courage, uh to to kindness, but also to courage, and not only the courage to challenge ourselves and but maybe challenge this friend that is saying these things about herself, um but also courage for us to to listen to it, to to our own words, and the courage also to stay in this uncomfortable feeling. So when I'm saying to myself that that I look hideous in this bikini, I'm not allowed to use this bikini because oh my goodness, I have stretch marks or whatever it could be. Um acknowledging that takes courage, but also to challenge it takes even more courage. So a lot of times we just wanna like speed through that and like jump to the but I'm never gonna wear uh a bikini. Um this is just a solution. I hide. And this is the solution for it, and we just tuck it in, we we silence it, we taboo it, we do not want to talk about it. It gets reflected in the relationship to ourselves, to someone else. So I'm saying that we need courage to acknowledge that feeling, to stay in it. Like I feel really uncomfortable showing my body to the world, to myself. Um so acknowledge that, but also acknowledge that it takes a lot of courage to step out of that, maybe go and get that bikini or whatever it could be. Yes.

SPEAKER_05 41:38

Now it doesn't need to be a bikini bikini.

SPEAKER_02 41:40

It could be like it can be whatever it could be. It doesn't matter. Challenge yourself.

SPEAKER_03 41:47

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 41:48

Who I one little baby step at a time. Maybe it's just a bikini top, you know? Then you wear board shorts.

SPEAKER_03 41:55

Board shorts.

SPEAKER_04 41:56

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 41:57

You could do board shorts. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 41:59

Just something, just challenge, a small challenge.

SPEAKER_05 42:03

Yeah. So we challenge each of you to do one thing that you're uncomfortable with and let us know.

SPEAKER_01 42:10

Yeah. We want to know. Absolutely. Absolutely. And we will let you know also, Maya. And I wanted to say, since this uh podcast is on May 5th, what is May 5th? That you can help us celebrate with you. The International Midwifery Day. That is perfect. We celebrate you, girlfriend. We thank you for being just the person that you are, the educator, and just helping us, yeah, see everything in a different way. So I also wanted to thank our sponsors here. Do you have those? Yep. We have our um affiliate sponsors is Good Day Chocolate, we have Parlor Games, and we have Isogenics, which is also we thank them for all of their um support. And we encourage you guys to check into that. It will be in the the notes at the end of the podcast, along with you can continue to follow us on Spotify, YouTube, and Apple Podcasts. So we find us and we will be there, and you can let us know how you're making it through the pause. Thank you, girls. It's been a pleasure. Thank you. Thanks.