Season 2: Episode 5 Wholistic Wellness Center with Michelle and Marina

This engaging conversation explores women's experiences with menopause, focusing on emotional health, rage, and self-care strategies. Experts Michelle Renee Ventura and Marina Ejova share insights on navigating hormonal changes, embracing authenticity, and cultivating resilience through micro habits and community support. You can find Michelle at Wholisticwellnesscenter.org

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Hey everybody and welcome to Take a Pause with Men and Pals, where we will talk about the pause and all of her glory and not so glory, but it'll be a conversation that will be honest, will be real and funny, you know. It's always funny.

SPEAKER_03 0:15

This it's hilarious.

SPEAKER_01 0:17

It is funny. I mean, we have to find humor in what's exactly happening to us. I mean, do we really know what's happening to us? But we'll laugh along the way. So um, yeah. So I'm happy to have uh my co-host and partner in MeniPals, Raquel. Hello, Raquel. And today we are excited. We are joined by two lovely women, as you can see. We have Michelle Renee Ventura, who is a transformational therapist and owner of Holistic Wellness Center. Hello, Michelle. In Reno, Nevada. In Reno. Gotta get a shot. Yes, I know. Me being the only one on the East Coast. It's always lonely over here at the Bottom Square. And then Mission Mayor. Yeah, thanks. And then we have Marina Ajova, who is a women's empowerment and somatic coach. Welcome. And we're really excited to have this conversation, ladies. This is gonna be an interesting one. It's gonna be interesting because we're gonna talk first. We'll find out all about you girls and find out about your journey with the pause, but also we're gonna try to find out why we get a little ragey. Ragey. Yeah. That is a great I was like, what's a nice way of saying it? No, rage is really the only, it's not anger, it's not dislike. It goes from you're normal to you are like on the scale of like 500. And then you're back to then all of a sudden you're just like, Yeah, it could be anything. So we'll we'll find out how that is, how you guys are all making out with that. So welcome. And I don't care whoever goes first. You can let us know.

SPEAKER_03 1:54

And well, I'm curious to hear about your journey. Like, let's let's talk about where you guys are. Um, who who and where are you in your journey with Periminapause, menopause, and how did you guys get through that?

SPEAKER_04 2:06

Well, so I'd love to bring up how gosh, Marina, what was it two years ago when she was going through a series of really traumatic events that was bringing up grief, and same for me, um, just in in different storylines. And from that grief was coming with rage and anger. And so we started talking about how can we bring women together to talk about this, especially the hormonal changes that we're going through. Um, and let's have these open conversations. And so then we started talking about, well, let's bring wise women together, wise women ways, because we're no longer living in community anymore. So let's talk about the hard stuff. And then as I'm going through this process, it was probably maybe six months ago, I started going through the threshold of some really intense rage. And so then it catalyzed me to to again have more conversations and gather women together and talk about what's really effing hard right now, and why are we so angry? And there's a whole list of things, Michelle.

SPEAKER_03 3:14

Everything.

SPEAKER_04 3:15

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 3:16

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:17

There is a whole list of it. You're right. There's more than 50 things that are on that list. Yeah, yeah. Rage is one of them. It's down at the bottom, but it is there.

SPEAKER_03 3:28

It should be closer to the top. You know, I I think uh I read something recently that said, you know, any ch any child of trauma that you have tried to suppress, any kind of anything that you've suppressed your entire life, grief, trauma, frustrations, relationship issues, whatever, that all surfaces during perimenopause. I wish I had known that going in. I wish I actually had known I was in perimenopause, period. Because I probably would have done a lot of things differently. There's that. Yeah. But you know, not knowing what you're faced with because you have suppressed it and you have like forgotten about it in your mind, although your body carries all of those things. Like there's so many things that I'm like, oh my God, I I didn't even think about that. And like being strong enough mentally to be able to like compartmentalize that and like really sit with it has been that's a bit a struggle, you know. I I I I did hire a therapist at one point, but I don't know that I got out of it what I was hoping for. So it was it's been kind of like, okay, I'm doing this, and I do a lot of self-help and I do a lot of reading, but I'm I'm curious how women out there can help themselves. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:35

Yeah. And I'm also curious too that your um holistic wellness center. What do you yes? I love it because it's spelled W H instead of the like the whole person, the whole point.

SPEAKER_03 4:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 4:49

I opened it three years ago, and it was it was a passion project that was inspired by wanting to bring community together and just to get real with each other. Uh and Marina and I have talked about this too, how we go into these spiritual communities, and it's really fluffy. It's very sweet, and it's really fluffy, and people can't feel like it's accessible. Spirituality isn't accessible. So then I wanted to open the center where people from different walks of life, different ethnicities, different sexual orientation can come together and just just be real, just be authentic. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:26

Just be real. Yeah. Just be real. I love it. Yeah. I I love it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:33

How about you, Marina? Yeah, I want to jump in here and like yeah, dial dial into that. So my story started. I when I went into like what I thought was a midlife crisis before that, everything was just perfect. Right. Beautiful daughter, marriage. I'm leading these goddess retreats and really connected to my community. And all of a sudden I encountered like life's dramatic events, like two evacuations from the fires and floods. And I think that's what triggered my early perimenopause. So I went into it, I was probably like 39 or something.

SPEAKER_03 6:06

Wow. Wow. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 6:07

The symptoms are so there's so many. There's so various of them, right? So many. So it's it's really hard to pinpoint.

SPEAKER_03 6:13

And it's and we're so good as women to like not address those.

SPEAKER_00 6:18

Right. Yeah, right. And as women, like we wear so many masks, so many hats. We're like the good mom, the good daughter, the good sister, the good friend, the good everything. Like, you know, we're fine at life, you know. So I think that's where like really leaning into sisterhood with Michelle, with our community, and having these circular conversations with women, that's what's been really helping and supportive. I've done goddess festivals too, where we camp out, we do this camp out in the woods for four days, four nights with the little girls and the elders too. And you can't really escape yourself. It's not like you go into a yoga class and you come out with a big smile, but over there, like you're gonna get tired, hungry, angry, triggered by someone who is like got their stuff together or more pretty or moving more wildly or like, you know, skinny or what? There's a bunch of opportunities. And specifically, like we include workshops or conversations on rage, on sadness, on emotional stuff. So there's opportunities for people to grieve, to cry, to dance, to stomp it out, and to access that world, not just from their words, but like let their bodies really speak and feel.

SPEAKER_03 7:29

I do love that. Yeah, I remember a point in my, you know, early when I had no idea what was going on, and I was just I had experienced my first panic attack, and like the anxiety was omitting off of me like an ATT tower. I mean, I was just like, oh my gosh, I'm gonna come out of my skin at any minute. And I remember telling a friend of mine, like, yeah, that's easy for you to say, but I'm stuck in this body. Like, I'm stuck listening to myself right now. And I was serious, like I was like, I was a little angry about it, but it was it was a really ugly thing to be like knowing that you're stuck with those thoughts and being stuck in that body and you can't escape it. You know, any other situation you can run from, you can hide from, you can just ignore, but when it's your own internal voice, it's it's coming in hot.

SPEAKER_01 8:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 8:14

And if you're So I really appreciate that, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:16

If you're out camping and you, you know, you put into the whole thing the elements, the hungry. Yeah, you know what I mean? Maybe you just want some quiet and somebody's talking more, and you're like, I just want to now be by myself.

SPEAKER_00 8:28

And it's just such deep conditioning of how we've glorified listening to the mind and having the next answer everywhere, like whether it's YouTube, Google, the next book. And we're this journey, there is no next thing or the one thing that's gonna fix it. So I think my approach is like we must enter it through the body. And the more we deny it, the worse and the longer it's gonna get. Yeah, we gotta really start listening to the whispers. And if we don't whisper, if we don't listen to the whispers, they become loud screams. So the body is tremendously intelligent, and it's not our fault. So let's not put an extra thing to make ourselves wrong that we are not listening to the body. We've never been told and showed how to do that, right?

SPEAKER_03 9:13

So it was never a skill that I knew. And I did ultimately end up screaming, like in a pillow, in a bed, in my car. I still do occasionally just you know, when you're just at that overload point and you're just like I has nowhere else to go but out.

SPEAKER_01 9:30

It is because I think it is just your nervous system, yeah. Same, same. And your nervous system is just so overworked, like overstimulated. I can't, I went from never using that word to using it like all the time. I'm like, well, I'm obviously I'm just too overstimulated. You're like, hyperstimulated me. It's like and you don't even realize, but it's like crazy in the sense, like, you know, you you try to channel, but I think it's just because there's so many different people telling you what to do, what not to do, what you should feel, how you're too young to be feeling this. It can't be menopause, you're too young. Oh, it's just hot flashes. Yeah. So it's that whole circle, like that little whirlwind that's like outside of you, like a tornado of, well, I'm just by myself. Now it I am by myself because nobody understands what I'm feeling. Yeah. The docs don't know what's going on. Obviously, I'm too young for it, even though I wasn't. I was in a very good idea.

SPEAKER_03 10:33

I I'm so irritated. Like, I I know I'm by myself. Like I know you're here, but I'm really by myself. Did you guys find yourself doing that? I I feel like I did. I found a time where I was just like, I knew my husband couldn't help me, I knew my kids couldn't help me, and I just was so isolated. Absolutely. Yeah, definitely.

SPEAKER_01 10:50

Yeah, you sure can. Yeah, yeah. Love it. Yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:56

So this is good.

SPEAKER_01 10:58

I wish you could see. Oh, I'm sorry. I wish you could see my front porch because I have a bench out there and I have a pillow that says fresh out of fucks, and I have a ring camera, I have a ring camera, and the UPS drivers and the Amazon drivers that when they're putting it down, they turn to the right, and I will always hear them like chuckle. They're like, like they look at it, you know. And I had a um a woman, um Amazon driver, she like gave it a thumbs up, and I was like, that's right. Like it's like funny. Like you're coming. I appreciate you delivering all of my stuff, but yes, that's yeah, today's fresh out to a pillow. Yeah. I have it on a pillow. I love it. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 11:39

It's almost like giving someone permission to all sorts of.

SPEAKER_01 11:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 11:43

I'm sure Mare has the link. She's such a good shopper. I don't wanted to set it right. Could you put that in email and in email, please? So back to Ridge.

SPEAKER_00 11:53

I think Marina. I kind of wanted to take this to like historically, if we look at it from an energetic standpoint and from a shamanic perspective, because we also like invite the different elements to come in in the trajectory of our life, like what happens when we are in these like four phases of life. There's the maiden phase, and you know, where we go out, we make mistakes, we're learning, and then there's this like the two out of phases is either either the huntress archetype or the lover. So we again go out and we pour our energy into love or marriages and families or work really hard to someday, one day, you know, receive the trophy or retire, or right? Like once you raise your children or you are that good wife, like something is gonna happen. Right. And that's that point of like, you know, our 40, late 40s, 50s, like we arrive, and at that stage of this life, that's the menopause stage. And that's the stage where energetically, shamanically, we're supposed to be in our fullest power, taking that tall seat, the throne, and like really looking at society as like rarely are women really there with appreciation and gratitude. Like, wow, thank you for all your work, for who you are, and all that you do. Very often there's like more to do, and there's always that sense of not enoughness. So, yeah, there's just like shame from the society, shame from the systems, the relationships, the families, the work. Like, it's never enough. We live in this like rat-race society here in North America, too, where like there's always more. And when we arrive to the stage, we don't have like the physical energy for it. Our hormones are all all over the place, and like mentally, we're not really supported to be fully celebrated, to be in that tall, like high seat of our power. So, no, everything just like it's it's like a big volcano. This is a false promise here. So we get somewhere, and like there is no party, there is no cruise, there is no vacation or satisfaction.

SPEAKER_03 13:57

Keep looking for it though. I'm not kidding. I like I keep waiting for that one big thing, like, oh my god, that's it. Oh my god, like red carpet or something. I don't know. I don't know. But then, like, what happens next? You just wake up the next day and you're back to just normal.

SPEAKER_01 14:10

Well, no, I think though too, like you feel like totally like I get that, like, you know, because you know, you're like, oh my gosh, like just in like I'm a nurse. So it's like you just look at like nurse, they're like, oh my gosh, I'm gonna be, you know, management or whatever. And then your body betrays you by giving you this lovely thing called brain fog, and you're like, what is that thing? You know, that thing that I need, and it's like then people look at you and you're like, oh my God. So then instead of like standing up for yourself and being like, hey, I know more than you'll ever forget, right? I tried saying that to somebody one time, but they didn't get it, and I laughed all the way. But instead of that, I did, but instead of that, you shrink yourself, you know me, because you don't, you now you're like, oh my gosh, maybe I don't know it. So instead of like standing up for yourself and realizing, hey, it's hormones, which now hopefully women will, since it's starting to come out more and more that people are talking about it more. But you know, for me, this, you know, was happening like three years ago and it still wasn't talked about. And so you just end up shrinking yourself. So you don't put yourself on that throne because you don't want somebody to ask you a question you can't readily answer or look confident doing. So unfortunately, that's what happened. So I'm hoping that now women stop shrinking themselves and be like, hey, I know it. Just give me a minute. Just one little minute to get that word that I'm trying to figure out. And that'll be good.

SPEAKER_03 15:45

I don't even know if it's shrinking. I think it's just just like saying, speaking up, you know, just having that voice that you never had before. Like, to me, that's so important because I've debated with myself, like, do I say something? Should I not? I don't know. This feels weird because creating a boundary always feels weird, right? Like, because that's something new that our nervous system doesn't know about. So yeah, it's it's a hard thing to learn. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 16:07

Yeah. I want to highlight this. This is a point where I think this place where like I can no longer tolerate all the BS and the broken boundaries and the shoulds that I've tolerated all my life. And that's why it's so hard because if we've done it for 40 years in different phases of our life, we don't just get here in this one moment and all of a sudden we're like, I know what I want, I know what I need, I'm the queen of my life. Give me space, get out of my way. Like, no, it's wild. It doesn't look pretty. So it erupts like a volcano sometimes. These like, you know, anger, rage like come out. It's because we've self-betrayed ourselves our entire life to be the good girl, to be the good wife, to fit the society for all the good reasons. But unfortunately, we put ourselves last sometimes. And this is the time when everything in our body goes, You gotta put yourself first, because if you don't, all you got is you all you got is you right now.

SPEAKER_03 17:09

I guess it's true. I remember my kids being real they really struggled with it.

unknown 17:13

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 17:13

No, go ahead, Michelle. You're an occasional freeze.

SPEAKER_01 17:15

We're an occasional freeze and we're gonna blame it on the streaming, and we won't say what streaming it is, but keep going. We'll go. It's all good. That's what women do, Michelle. We just push right through. Point case. Yeah. Mm-hmm. That's amazing. It is so true because you know, you do have to sort of forget what you've been told through the years of should. And I read a book, and I don't know if it was actual Mel Robbins or what, but I too, like Raquel, like I, you know, every self-help book and you know, to try to have you figure out I read You have read so many more books than I have because I was, you know, I was reading like Dean Coons.

SPEAKER_03 17:58

I was in like murder mystery. But now I'm like self-help.

SPEAKER_01 18:02

Self-help, yes. But um they said like take the word should out of your vocabulary because when you use it, it's guilt, right? Like I should go to the store today, even though I am exhausted and I just worked three twelve hours. You know what I mean? Like you should no, you can it's okay to just stay home and veg on the sofa, but it's like I should do this. Anytime that I would catch myself saying should, I was guilting myself into doing something I did not want to do. So it took me uh over a year to stop saying that. You know, I mean it sounds simple, it took me over a year. I was like, what is that? Because as soon as I would be in an uncomfortable situation where I had to choose between what I wanted to do and what other people wanted me to do, I would be like, Oh, well, I should, I should go. And then I would go, and then I'm like, oh my god, I'd be sitting in the car like screaming, like, I didn't want to go, you know?

SPEAKER_03 19:02

So it's just resentful the whole time. Yeah. I read a cool quote the other day in the world. Yeah. And I read a cool quote the other day that said, Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 19:10

Don't shoot all over yourself. Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 19:14

I can't remember the quote, but so go on. Okay. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_00 19:19

That's so important. Every time we should on ourselves, every time we do something, instead of tapping into what do I really want or what does my body need? Maybe I need a nap. Yes. Culture of productivity, too, right? How productive is a nap? How productive is you know, all those things. That's a whole lot of conversation of why we do why why are we conditioned to do things that you know are not really good and aligned with us? It creates this sense of resentment and anger, right? And it comes out like you know, little fireballs, throwing them either at other people or ourselves, but like where we don't recognize ourselves. And this is what happens when we go against ourselves, right? So so you know what Michelle just said from that that whole journey through archetypes to our wild, sensual, authentic, fully expressed woman, the road to that expression might be a little choppy. And yeah, it's yeah, it's okay because you know we're learning how to do that. If we haven't again expressed our full desires and boundaries, it gets a little choppy. And sometimes I also want to name like the the nervous system response very often when we are in that triggered response or our bodies are tight, almost like that semi-trauma response, almost like a mini, and then we're like, fight, light, freeze. And the worst for women and the most common one is fawn. We start fawning, we just put the good girl smile on and we go, I'm fine, I'm just gonna handle it.

SPEAKER_01 20:51

Yeah, yeah, basically. It scares me the most when I see people like when my girlfriends be like, I'm fine. And I was like, Oh my god. And I always re- I'm like, no, let's just understand she's not fine. And they're like, No, I'm fine, there. And I was like, Okay, though, just the way you're saying it is you're not fine, girl. You know, and it's like you you need that girlfriend to just like pat you on the head like you're not fine. You're not fine.

SPEAKER_03 21:16

Just they say your nervous system doesn't know the difference between like being fine or being chased by a lion. So, you know, just let's be let's let's keep that fight or flight down.

SPEAKER_00 21:26

Maybe that's one of the words we could also eliminate from our vocabulary, just should I fine, which doesn't actually like measure or talk about anything at all.

SPEAKER_01 21:37

Nobody is ever fine. There's like nobody. If you have to ask if somebody's okay and they say they're fine, you know the answer already. Like, don't even answer. I would rather you say, no, I'm shitty. I'm shitty right now.

SPEAKER_03 21:52

And you're like, Just be honest with me for real. Yeah. Well, it's like the word normal, right? Like, how do you even define normal? Like, that's that's a whole different Like rabbit hole, but yes.

SPEAKER_00 22:01

Sitting on the washing machine. Well, and here's the thing, I want to bring it to like practical tools for people is once you catch your nervous system, right? Whether it's your teenagers that are, you know, creating some something at the in the house or your nervous system is in that trauma response, whether it's big capital trauma or small T trauma, you know. But once we catch ourselves in fight, flight, freeze, or fawn response, whether it's immediate or 20 minutes later or an hour later, I invite my clients and the women I work with, instead of being in that like fight response and just plow through it, do the regular loop of that way of doing it, is transition into feeling instead. Another option, another F-word. The fifth option is instead of fight, flight, freeze on, feel. That's the hardest part. Body, take a breath. And maybe you'll feel that fire. Maybe you'll feel disconnection. Maybe you'll feel like I actually don't know. Maybe I need to step away from everything and everybody, go for a five-minute walk. But feeling is a way out of that autopilot response, dramatic, like or whatever that autopilot thing that we're doing. And that gives us all of a sudden just a window and an opportunity to make a different choice. So it's awareness first, catching ourselves, awareness first, and then regulating oneself with let me go for a walk, let me breathe, and keep feeling my body. So once I'm a little more regulated, then I get to take a different choice. And maybe say, I'm not gonna do the groceries right now. I'm gonna get an Instacart membership, or you know what Michelle and I are doing now. I'm just gonna get my meals delivered to me this week. Yeah, yeah. Like I either get some help, ask, outsource it. It's all doable, but prioritizing one's health for sure.

SPEAKER_01 23:58

Yeah, I love that. I love the the feel part of it because that's so true. Because you can you know when your body is tense or struggling with, you know, being overstimulated. See, there it is. I've already used it now, what, two, three times. It's my favorite word, it seems. But you you do know, and if you allow your body to feel it, you and be able to give yourself grace to go out and take a walk, like you said, would probably I know it would help me, like definitely. I'm that's one of the things that we're gonna do.

SPEAKER_04 24:28

Right now, walking down.

SPEAKER_01 24:29

Yes, you are with your with your streaming.

SPEAKER_03 24:33

Like, and that's one of the things we talk about at Menopows, though, is is exactly to your point, Marina. Like, women need a reasonable accommodation in the workplace, like taking that five minutes and being able to like compose themselves, work through that, feel, take those extra breaths, and not have a bunch of things coming at them. You know, I mean, I know in my work environment, some days it will just be so chaotic that I will just just shut down. Like I just shut down and and I won't want to email and I don't talk to people, and you know, and it's just not a really healthy space. So I think that it's really important for women to be able to identify that, especially in the workplace.

SPEAKER_00 25:12

Yeah. It's a really important point here because we override that, like there's a freeze response or something, and by default, again, we just took that route for 40, 50 years, override my body, want to put a smile on, nothing's happening, and deny what I'm actually feeling, or we don't even know how to meet our feelings. So maybe this can be a great segue, Michelle. If you want to time into this, maybe like to talk into like maybe once I stepped away and I'm able to feel my body, I might feel anger. And am I actually able to feel my anger fully? And then the following step is what do I do with that? What do I do with that? Is so they piss me off again. They've been doing this for a number of years, and it reminds me of my mom or dad or whoever. Yeah, yeah. This layered cake all of a sudden. And um, what do I do with that then? Well, and I want to bring up no pressure.

SPEAKER_04 26:10

I want to bring up too that like Raquel, what you were saying earlier of how we suppress anger over and over and over again in our body, our body holds it, right? The body keeps the score. And it's interesting that anatomically our vocal cords look very similar to our vagina. And yes, there's been a lot of sexual abuse. I unfortunately, I don't know many women that haven't been sexually abused, and so then that is going to bring up anger eventually. I mean, it's we're holding it until we're ready to burst and we're ready to deal with what we haven't confronted in a very long time, especially all the women shutting down and not saying what's really challenging to talk about. And our mothers and our mothers' mothers were just like, nope, let's brush it under the rug, brush it under the rug. And there's a lot of women that are finally tapping into the rage and the anger of what's surfacing. So oh, right. Go ahead. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And then also, like I I was uh I have a father that was a preacher, and it was more of like, you just you don't say anything, honey. Okay. I'm gonna preach the word of God, I'm gonna tell you what's going on here. And so just being small and getting smaller and smaller and smaller, and in that darkness of shame, which shame and guilt are are two emotions that so many of us, I mean, no matter what your gender is, that we feel, and it comes in different storylines. And so, so I feel like the anger and the rage is a part of that too, of when we're finally tapping into that shame that we've held on, whether it be through sexual abuse or any form of abuse or whatever that is, or it's we've held on to it. And now the tissues, the body is like, okay, it's time, let's release this. And I think anger can be such a powerful alchemizing force and sacred anger is sacred rage when we start to channel it. And when I went through my threshold six months ago of like any little thing, I would just go into rage. And my husband is very patient with me. I love him so much going on this journey with me. But I started to channel it through writing and posting things on social media that were hard to talk about, and there was a lot of interaction, and then also forming wise women ways. And it's like it's when we can channel that and turn lead to gold, like that's the alchemy of fire, then it's really empowering. But we were never taught how to use anger and rage. It was more like it's not okay. Men can feel anger and rage, but not women, it's not polite, right? But then when we actually learn, and I I did not start out using anger and rage in a good way, I would scorch everyone around me. So I had to learn how what not to do in order to learn what to do and how to channel it.

SPEAKER_03 29:08

And it's weird too when because I was this, you know, really hot-headed and just like atypical personality. And it's it's funny when you come out and you're just like understanding, people are like waiting for the other shoe to drop. You're like, what?

SPEAKER_01 29:21

I don't know what your problem is. I've worked on myself. Yeah, I've worked on it. I've done myself. I've done the work. Yeah. Not a me problem, that's a you problem. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 29:30

Maybe you need to have a little more anger and rage.

SPEAKER_01 29:34

Yes, yes. But you know, it's so true because like even like you Raquel mentioned, like in the workplace, like, you know, if men, you know, argue or yell or raise their voice, you know, in the boardroom, they they're powerful. You know, if a woman does it, she's unhinged. I'm like, yeah, wait, what just happened? I just said the same thing that they did, you know what I mean? And it's just like how society looks at it. Like, you know, you have to, you know, always be like in control. And it's like, I am in control. I'm not unhinged. I'm just, you know, and it's just like getting that out there too. Like, I I feel like, you know, that's what there are some other boundaries like in work and just in society, just naturally. So it's like great that women can find community in with your coaching, Marina, and with, you know, holistic wellness center is the fact the more the merrier. Like you built it, they will come, you know, because like I think like everybody's like they're opening up the door, like, okay, okay, we're in menopause. Can we can we come out? And they've realized they come out and everybody's accepted. It's not, you know, you don't have to hide anymore, like you know, years ago. So that's what I'm hoping that this whole new age of menopause creates, like that we get back into that goddess realm. And the fact like we're, you know, honored. And it's like in Japan, they're, you know, they're the the wise women and the, you know, and here it's changed.

SPEAKER_03 31:04

So I have, I will admit, I I know a lot more at 51 than I did at 21. I do want my little passage through. But for me, like I don't I just see it as having a voice in the room that doesn't look or come across as or perceived as like unhinged or hysterical or, you know, any of those things that I would have been thought of or called or talked about at 21. You know what I mean? Because I don't think I have the same passion and I have still the he I still have that same heat, but it just comes in a different format. You know, now I've I've learned to deal with that and I've learned where to put that and the right way to use it rather than just like, you know, like that that's just never healthy for anything. So I think that's been a lot of my journey is just learning where to put that, how to use it and appropriately use it, you know.

SPEAKER_04 31:54

Did you ladies know the Greek root of hysteria is uterus, womb? I just learned that.

SPEAKER_01 32:01

Good to know. Mary, did you know that? No, I did not.

SPEAKER_04 32:04

And I I she's asking me because I am Greek, but um I'm half Greek, but I'm gonna fact check that, but I it was on a a post from someone that I I follow. Well, in primal therapy, I think it's it's so needed. And Marina, you've we've talked about rage rooms and we've both gone to rage rooms, and you've also I know you've facilitated some gatherings, right? With with anger release for women.

SPEAKER_00 32:28

Well, yeah, and that's what I wanted to time in on is you know, again, we have this mentality in the West, this like this quick pill is gonna fix it all. Once the gates open to the menopause world, everybody else is gonna just it's gonna be an easy entry, and the you know, instruction book is booklets are gonna be like, you know, distributed. And it's like, no, there is no later to get there. I missed that line. One day at a time, and we all have to do our own work, you know, in our own homes, our life, or work. And so this rage or anger doesn't come out in these like sporadic times in the boardroom or with the kids that people will love the most, and or the worst, you know, the best and the worst times of our life. But if we can do it in micro habits of just simple, simple, like you took a breather, you tapped into some fiery emotion in your belly, and you're like, ooh, there's an anger here about my boss, and that reminds me of my dad, actually. Let me journal on that later on tonight. Let me catch that thread of like, where is that anger for me? And maybe I can just do like a shenanig dance, like just put some drum music on, African drums, and just shake it out, like breath work, just somatic shaking, EFT tapping, just tapping whenever you're feeling triggered or you feel, you know, sometimes like we feel that anger or that fire coiling in our belly slowly, and we could feel it building. Just tapping, simple way of like putting your nervous system and say, You're okay. There's no tiger that's running after you, you know. Yeah, but there's no threat here, you're fine. So just doing the micro work, that's where I see we're building habits, we're taking care of our emotions, we're not sweeping stuff under the rug, waiting for one day, you know, once a year I'm gonna do this goddess retreat and we'll do the anger release. Like, no, it's a microhabit on a daily, and Michelle spoke to it so beautifully, the voice too, just humming and get just taking a moment to like hum or sing or scream, but getting that out, whether we can we can say specifically what that anger is about, but maybe not, maybe it's just a ha ha. Whatever that is, yeah. But it's energy that's just in motion, right? We're no longer stuffing it, fawning with it, repressing it. We're moving it, and that's what it's all about. So I'm a big um believer in microhabits, and the more often the merrier and just dialing in these like microhabits on a daily like I feel triggered, I'm gonna feel and go breathe and scream instead of right.

SPEAKER_03 35:11

Yeah, these microhabitants. The microhabits are a key to longevity, in my opinion. I mean, they really are. And just to add to your point, Marina, writing it actually brings it to the prefrontal cortex in your head. And for me, that gives it a place to go. So I have it on paper, and that then I don't think about it as hard as I used to, which is a really interesting science. I kind of looked a little bit into it, not enough to talk about it intelligently, but like for me, it works really well.

SPEAKER_00 35:38

Well, just naming your feeling, like what are you feeling? Just yeah, yeah, neurological fear, just like yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 35:45

One thing that I've been doing that's so simple, and I I learned this about book I was listening to on the vagus nerve and how the vagus nerve helps complete our cortisol cycles and brings us back into rest and digest. But since we're so dopamine addicted and stimulated by the outside world, that vagus nerve is not, it can't be at the forefront anymore because we drown it out with noise. So then the thing like what Marina was saying with the humming, that's one way it's like our internal sound healing. But just simply breath and those micro moments that Marina's talking about of when you inhale and take it in your belly and in your diaphragm and through your nose and then through your belly, and then exhale with a longer exhale. Just doing that throughout the day has been huge. And it is so simple, but it's retraining our vagus nerve and to say to come back online and also to teach our bodies that we we are our own sense of safety, we can create our own sense of safety. And it's so easy for us to look outside of ourselves and say, that person's gonna protect me and I'll only feel safe if this happens. Because, you know, let's face it, we live in a really scary world a lot of times. So then just training our bodies and communicating with it, and like when what Marina's saying, naming the emotion that's coming up, but just that simple breath throughout the day is like it's life-changing, and not and it's not a forced exhale, it's more of just a like a release. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:21

And I do, I um learned at a yoga class years ago, like the box breathing. For me, like that's and so it's like I'm breathing, but I'm counting, and it's all together, and you just sort of get into like this little meditative little, I don't know, I do. I wouldn't put my warning on that, but I'll let you finish while you're bringing aware of it. I was there with her warning.

SPEAKER_03 37:45

I tried the box breathing. I don't recommend it when you're nervous. Like, I want to put that differentiating factor out there. Like being anxiety-ridden and nervous, two different things when you're doing that box breathing.

SPEAKER_01 37:57

I always passed out in City Hall. Yeah, exactly. Because I'm like, just do box breathing. Just, just do it. I'm like talking to her in my calming voice, and she was like, I think I'm gonna pass down. I was like, let's stop the box breathing.

SPEAKER_03 38:12

Like everything started getting smaller and like dark. You're like, going forward, just do it when you have anxiety. Make sure you're sitting down. I mean, everybody's different.

SPEAKER_01 38:23

Micro, do it. I'm like, let's do the box breathing and help. We've drained for this. We've drained for this. We got this. I'm talking in like my like I um I do Reiki, so I'm talking in my Reiki voice. I'm like, you'll be fine. She was like, No, I'm gonna pass out. And I was like, Let's stop the box breathing.

SPEAKER_03 38:42

Let's just stop jacket on, and it was just drenched. I was just like, oh my god, this is ridiculous. Yeah, but I do like everything else that we talked about. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 38:52

We all find what works for us, right?

SPEAKER_00 38:54

Yeah. Like, if I can just add one more thing here about the nervous system conversation right now, we hear a lot of nervous system regulation. Yeah. Yeah. One thing that I think there is a misunderstanding about is when we're talking about a regulated nervous system, that it means that I'm calm and zen and I'm doing the yogic box breath. It's really not. It's really not. Being regulated means that you're feeling your body, you're not disassociating, you're not in fights response, but you're still in your body, but you can actually have an increased capacity for stress in life. So you can be in a playground with kids and dinners and serving, and and you know, as leaders, we have to juggle and hold multiple things in one event. So, what the nervous system actually means is expanding my capacity to meet more life without abandoning my body. And sometimes that means feeling really zen and amazingly like, you know, quiet and harmonious. And sometimes that means, you know, moving vigorously, having multiple conversations and still being really present. And having these different tools in my back pockets, you know, maybe sometimes it is more breath. Maybe it is, it is a scream that is a nervous system regulation practice. And sometimes having multiple things, what calms us down and also what stimulates us, and knowing how to move the energy and having the range of the tools versus one tool that's like no, that's true though.

SPEAKER_03 40:29

You're right. The toolbox is where it's at. I mean, just having a repertoire of things because like the box breathing didn't work for that scenario. So then it went into I don't even remember what we did next, but we did another, like just stop and think about it, or I don't even remember, but we had other tools that we used. And that's the something I didn't have at 21, and something I didn't even have at 30, I didn't even have that at 40. I'm gonna be real honest. It took me a lifetime to learn what I know now. I don't know. I mean, I've I've been through quite a bit, like like health-wise for it, but I don't know that I would change it because I don't think that it would have broken me open the way that I feel I'm broken open now. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 41:06

Yeah, absolutely. That's true. So if you can give one advice to the younger women out there for anything, menopause to help your nervous system, what would be the one advice that you would tell your younger self or a younger friend of this is what you need to do, and this will help you through menopause and just through anger or anything? What would you say?

SPEAKER_04 41:32

Well, I really love Marina what you just said because I think that it comes along with we're not doing it good enough, we're not regulating that imposter syndrome. And so so what I've learned over the years and have to practice every day, all day, is I have to meet myself where I am. And if I am angry and want me to burst into tears, then I can do that. I go into I find the space to do that. If I'm feeling really joyful and ecstatic and excited, I'm gonna dance and I'm gonna have fun and I'm gonna connect with people. And if I'm feeling sad, then I'm just gonna sit and feel sad. So rather than distracting myself, just meeting myself where I am. That's what I would yeah, the what I would tell my didn't know it was okay to do that.

SPEAKER_01 42:22

Yeah, yeah, that's perfect. Marina, what would you say?

SPEAKER_00 42:26

I would just say follow your like sacred yes, like your fuck yes in your body, being really connected to your feeling and your desires. Yeah, because that's like that's the essence, is tap into your yes. What do you want? Professionally, romantically, physically, nerd-wise, and just follow your yes and practice it, practice it as often as possible.

SPEAKER_03 42:50

It's gonna take a little time to to find those ladies, but it's in there, believe us.

SPEAKER_01 42:54

Yep, it is. It is. Raquel, what would be your what would be your advice? Oh, I didn't know it was for me. I didn't think this through. Go ahead, Mayor. Well, I would say, okay, great. I would say, um, like you're also your your true friends, like your your person that you have. Because I know just when Raquel was saying, like, do the box breathing and we could laugh about it, and she's like, I'm gonna pass out. You know, just having to be able to look over and find your support and know that you're not being judged. You're not being, you know, you have to find those friends. And we all know, we all know when you have that friend that is a true friend and the one that's like the surface friend, you know, like the work friend, the surface ones. You see them in the supermarket, you're like, oh hey, you know, like, you can all cap onto a point, you know, like trying not to make eye contact, you know. But um, but I would say like try to find, yeah, your true, like along with your true yes, like try to find your true tribe, like find your tribe that will help support. You when you fall, they'll pick you up. And that that's what I would say. Now you've had enough time now, Raquel.

SPEAKER_03 44:06

Now I think for me it's know your worth. Just know your worth. I mean, at 21, I I I think I said it earlier. I didn't feel nearly as worthy and competent and able. Although I know I have all the same knowledge, except for, you know, some life lessons along the way. Like I was smart enough. I was capable enough. I deserved to be in that room. And why I made myself feel like I didn't is is beyond any comprehension I have, but here I am now. And I'm not gonna not take this opportunity again. It's awesome.

SPEAKER_01 44:38

And see, those those are what we help we will help these younger girls. We will help them. One way or another. Well, I have to say thank you, girls. This has been just amazing. And um I think that people will get a lot out of it. That it's not just um you have to find out where the rage is coming from. Yeah. And key, you you find out where it is, you deal with it, you learn how to take little micro steps along the way, and then regulation is at the end of the line. Like it's at the tunnel, you can see the light, and and I think that will help everybody. So that way you don't get upset when you hear somebody loudly chewing at the table next to you when you're out at a restaurant. You know, just trying to keep it real. Like you try to see.

SPEAKER_04 45:26

Go outside and breathe.

SPEAKER_03 45:28

Walk the building a few times. It's a twofer. You're walking off the food, you're getting the rage out, you're moving some estrogen.

SPEAKER_01 45:36

Rest and digest. You're digesting along the way, and then you come back in, you're like, oh, good, they're done their salad. So now I can sit back down. Life can resume. I can resume. Life can resume. Well, girls, well, thank you again. And I I can't tell you enough how much we love this. And if everybody enjoyed this, as we tell our listeners, you can continue to follow us on Spotify, on Apple Podcast, and on YouTube. And we always like to give out a shout out to our affiliates, which is uh Good Day Chocolate, parlor games, pantry products, pantry products, isogenics, and nutrition, yes, which is these are all products that we love and use because we won't lead you astray. And these are things that if you hear it here first, go try and find it and it's easy. Believe us, we've tried it. Yes, we have tried it. They're in our uh notes, and we will put the uh your website of where you can tell us your website of where to find um holistic wellness center.

SPEAKER_04 46:44

Yeah, holistic with the W H so W-H-O-L-I-S T I-C wellness center.org.

SPEAKER_01 46:50

Perfect. And it's in Reno, and I really wish I was out there. I'm gonna get frequent flyer miles eventually. Yes. But um we said thank you again, and as Raquel and I like to always say, we will see you see you next Tuesday.