Ep #40 - Why High-Income Providers Still Feel Trapped (And How to Build Real Financial Freedom) with Dr. Christopher Loo

If you’re a high-income provider but still feel stuck… this episode is for you.

In this conversation, Jody Layne sits down with Dr. Christopher Loo—physician, investor, and host of the Financial Freedom Podcast—to unpack why so many successful professionals still feel trapped in their careers… and what it actually takes to create true financial freedom.

From student debt and lifestyle inflation to lack of time freedom and limited options, Dr. Loo breaks down the real reasons physicians and providers struggle to feel in control of their income—and their lives.

But more importantly, he shares practical strategies to change that trajectory… even if you’re already in your 30s, 40s, or beyond.

In this episode, you’ll learn:

• The difference between financial independence and financial freedom
• Why high earners often feel the most trapped
• The biggest financial mistakes providers make early in their careers
• How to start building wealth—even if you feel “behind”
• Why multiple income streams are no longer optional
• How to turn a podcast or personal brand into a revenue stream
• And what it really means to become “work optional”

If you’ve ever wondered if there’s more available to you than just working harder… this conversation will shift your perspective.

🔗 Connect with Dr. Christopher Loo:
https://drchrisloomdphd.com

This podcast is powered by Accelerated Medical Practices, where we believe hormone and wellness care should be both life-changing and profitable.  If you own or run a clinic and are interested in being a guest on the show, please complete the form here and let's connect!  Or email Jody at Jody@AcceleratedMedicalPractices.com.

 🚀 Grow your clinic with proven systems at AcceleratedMedicalPractices.com

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:14

Welcome to Beyond Hormones, the Business of Wellness, the podcast for hormone and functional medicine providers who want a thriving, predictably profitable practice, and maybe a little less stress along the way. Hi, I'm your host, Jody Lane, and I've worked with lots of clinics in marketing, sales, and business development, and I have seen what works and what doesn't. And here's what I believe hormone and wellness care should be available to everyone who wants it. And while providers know the medicine, many struggle with the business side of their cash practice. And that's where I come in. See, this podcast is here to share real strategies, real stories, things you can implement in your practice right away. So I am so glad you're here. Come on, let's go. Today's conversation is one I think is gonna hit a nerve for a lot of you out there listening. Because if you're a provider, you've probably done everything right. You went to school, you built a career, you're earning a good income. But if you still feel stuck, like you don't have as much freedom as you thought you would, well, that is exactly what we're gonna dive into today. I am joined by Dr. Christopher Liu, who is a physician, an investor, and the host of the wildly popular Financial Freedom Podcast. And he made a very unconventional decision early on in his career to step away from traditional medicine and build true financial independence. And what I love about this conversation is that we're not just talking about money, we're talking about options. We're talking about gaining control and we're talking about what it actually takes to build a life where work is optional, not mandatory. So if you've ever felt like you're working harder than you expected to, or you're wondering if there's another way to build your career and your income, this episode is going to open your eyes to things that I personally have never thought about before. All right, let's go dive in. Hello, everybody, welcome back to another episode of Beyond Hormones, the business of wellness. Today I'm excited to welcome Dr. Christopher Liu to the show. He is a physician, he's an investor, and he's the host of the Financial Freedom Podcast, where he helps physicians think differently about money, wealth building, and creating true optionality in their careers. What I love about his message, and truth be told, I have been a guest on his podcast as well, is that he's not just about earning more, he's about building freedom, making intentional choices and not feeling trapped by the career you've worked so hard to build. So, Dr. Liu, I'm so glad that you're here. Thank you for being here today. Let's go ahead and dive in. Tell us a little bit about your background and how you got to be the host of this amazing podcast.

SPEAKER_01 3:03

Yeah, and thanks again for having me on the podcast. Um, I've started to do more guest appearances because um these show up in Chat GPT a lot. And so um, you know, I started, yeah, I started out my medical career, you know, following the tried and true path of, you know, go to school, get a degree, get good grades, uh, you know, all of the traditional industrial advice. And I started to see a lot of changes, especially after 2000 with the advent of the internet, and especially after 2000 up to now, we've seen massive changes, uh, disruption in our society. You know, we talk about those later. I went to medical school. Baylor Rice was an MD PhD, and my original intention was to just be a practicing doctor. So I did that and got out of medical school, matched into orthopedic surgery residency. And um, I just remember the first day I went into orientation at residency, and I just I knew my heart wasn't in it. I knew it was gonna be a battle, but I stuck with it for a couple of years. I but I really did not I enjoyed being a doctor and I learned I enjoyed being around smart and successful individuals, but I did not enjoy working for the corporate industrial medical system. I know that's the the thing that's a lot of, I mean, I'm probably 100% sure 99% of people are not happy with. So I took a leap of faith. This was in 2008 when the financial crisis hit, the day that uh Lehman Brothers, it was all over the news, filed for bankruptcy. I just couldn't stand it anymore. And I was like, I'm not going to work for corporate America anymore. I turned my keys badge and pager and I set out on to become an entrepreneur to gain my time, my income, my freedom, and the ability to choose to work with whom and what I wanted to work on. So I spent the next eight years investing in severely uh undervalued real estate and became a multimillionaire in 2016. I was 38 years old at the time. And congratulations. Yeah, you know, that's kind of the long story. I then spent a year just contemplating doing different things, traveling, uh meeting entrepreneurs. And what really hit me was I was meeting these six and seven-figure entrepreneurs living abroad in South America and Southeast Asia. And I was just I was fascinated. How could they be doing this, living a lifestyle that most of us would dream about? So I uh networked with them, I came back to the States. I did a lot of consulting jobs, uh, high paying but very high stress, working for healthcare. And then four years in, the pandemic hit and basically everything shut down. Everything it was like in and I didn't know what was gonna happen. So I started um interviewing people and just guests, and I launched my financial freedom podcast from my bedroom closet in March of 2020, which has since now grown into a lucrative six-figure media brand where we interview hosts and guests such as yourself. And um, you know, I've since transitioned from trading my time and money into building this uh media brand, you know, speaking engagements, book endorsements, and uh sponsorships, affiliates. So that's me in a nutshell, and that's where I am today.

SPEAKER_00 6:27

That is one big nutshell. What a great story. You know, when I was listening to you, I was thinking about a lot of the practitioners that I work with in the hormone space, that they have the same story, different outcome. So went into traditional medicine, followed all the steps you're told to take, residency, come and attend, start working into the corporate hospital environment, and they're just frustrated with the traditional uh handcuffs that they have, and they can't treat their patients the way they want to. So they leave and they go get different kinds of freedom by getting into wellness and cash pay practices. But so I feel like your story resonates in a lot of ways. What would you say the definition for you is financial freedom? Because that could be a buzzword, but I bet it means more than just a buzz thing for you.

SPEAKER_01 7:14

Yeah, I break it down into four components of freedom. And basically the financial part is basically you have income covering your ability to cover your expenses, your debt liabilities, and you're able to save and invest without trading your time for money without a job. So that can be through a business, could be through investments, stocks, real estate, could be royalties, um, inheritance. So that's the definition of financial freedom. So, in that component, you've got where you sever the tie between your time and your incomes. Basically, you're you have your freedom, you have your finances set, you don't need to go work for somebody. So that's my definition. There's other levels of financial freedom. So, for example, there's financial independence, which is a precursor to financial freedom, where it's basically your work optional. You go to your practice or your job, you know, you may hate it, you may enjoy it, but it's just optional. You could leave at any time and you'd still be okay. So that's kind of financial independence and true like financial freedom, where just basically you can basically do whatever you you want. Um, and uh that that's the next level. So that's financial freedom in a nutshell.

SPEAKER_00 8:31

I feel like that is the new definition of retirement. You know, growing up, you were taught do X, Y, Z so that when you get to 62 or 65, you can retire. But so many of us now do things that we really enjoy. We don't want to stop working, but retirement is not having to work. Would you say that's true?

SPEAKER_01 8:49

Yeah. And uh again, it's um so there's a lot, and I used to really think about I used to advertise myself as retired, and I really, you know, I you contemplate out and I um I didn't really like that word because it kind of felt made me feel dead inside. Yeah, but uh a lot of people choose to use that word retirement, and you know, it could be again, there's this, there's so many different definitions with from retirement. It could be um, you know, the fire movement as well. There's uh there's but I I changed from retirement to work optional because I like that is like because we all have to have a purpose and we all have to have a drive and uh need to contribute.

SPEAKER_00 9:30

I'm going to steal that from people because my dad's always asking me about retirement. I'm gonna say, Dad, I'm not retiring, I'm going work optional. I love so you obviously you know have a lot of connection to the medical space. And you know, as a physician yourself, and I'm sure you work with other physicians, why do you think high-paid physicians still feel trapped or stuck in what they're doing?

SPEAKER_01 9:53

I mean, that's uh that's a loaded question, but I think um, you know, it's a lot of it. I mean, you can break it down into several components. So I mean, the first one is debt. Um, you know, a lot of them, you know, they accumulated, they went to these, they went to very expensive um undergraduates and you know, it's very expensive medical schools, you know, graduated with, you know, I've heard like 700,000, 800,000 in in student loan debt. So they're they're trapped to that. And on top of that, they don't have um, so they don't have time freedom. Uh they may get a high paying salary, but they're trapped. They may want to do other things, they don't have location freedom. The hospital tells them, and the insurance companies tell them where they have to work. And then on top of that, their employer they don't have any autonomy because their employers and hospitals and insurance are telling them how much they can get paid. So it's almost like you have to work harder and harder for less and less. So um that's I mean, that's one reason. Second reason is, you know, society, you know, we have these conceptions. We alluded to, you know, go to school, work hard, get good grades, you know, get a job. And uh a lot of these days in 2026, that um advice does not work for the majority of people. Uh, I'm even hearing people were they're saying that college is now um is optional and for some people may be a waste of time and money. So um, so they're they've been trapped, they've been conditioned to believe a certain way and they did everything correctly, and then they get to this point, it's like, and it's like, we you know, what did I, you know, what did I work for? What did I sacrifice, you know, these two decades for just to make an insurance company or a hospital more wealthier? Uh so that's the second thing. Third thing is just, you know, spousal pressure from parents, society is like you are you are a doctor, you you know, you have to sacrifice yourself, you have to sacrifice your well-being. So that type of then the next other reason why a lot of doctors feel trapped is because of expenses. They look at their colleagues and very uh they call them the high income, not yet wealthy, or the Henry's, or even people just making uh a significant income and just spending it and and not saving or investing it. So uh they get trapped by this um this perpetual rat race and comparison trap. So those are some of the reasons. Um, I mean there's others, but those are kind of the the general overview of why Luck.

SPEAKER_00 12:22

Wow, you make so many good points. I mean, I I resonated with a lot of the things that you said and heard stories from other providers where I could sort of feel those things happening in the background. Well, what did you say is one of the biggest mistakes you see physicians make early on in their career that lend themselves to these things being the outcome?

SPEAKER_01 12:43

Well, one thing is uh one of the biggest mistakes is just um not saving and not investing right away. A lot of med a lot of med students in med school, they think, oh, I got these student loans, um, I gotta wait till I get my attending job and pay off my student loans before I can start investing. By that time, you're 15 years behind. And, you know, if you have a hundred thousand dollars saved and it's if it's growing and compounding annually over 15 years, that that can turn into a significant amount. So uh the one thing is just not saving everything early. Um, you know, I actually I was I started when I was 24. Some of my real good friend and mentor, he was starting in it when he was 14 and 15, starting to invest in stocks and save stocks. So, you know, by the time he was um, you know, in his early 20s, he had you know a couple hundred thousand dollars in investments. So um that's the first thing. Um second thing is um overspending. So again, you know, this doc, this kind of this uh stereotype of the doctor lifestyle. So they have to, you know, you gotta buy a fancy car, um you know, these high expenses, um expensive homes, vacations, you know, these types of things, material consumption and this perpetual need to prove that you are a doctor. So you these this the rat race that's the second thing. Third thing is falling for scams and um just high like insurance things that because you know, doc physicians are targets, so um they get uh they get targeted by just very um uh investments that that are that are quite frankly scams. So those are three things. Um, and I mean we can talk about ways of mitigating and protecting yourself against uh these types of mistakes.

SPEAKER_00 14:33

Before we do that, let's let's flip the switch here because I would imagine a lot of people that are listening to this podcast are way beyond 14, 24, even 30. They're now maybe towards they're closer to their working optional age. What can they do? What are some of the things that they can do to change the trajectory of their financial freedom?

SPEAKER_01 14:56

In terms of uh, so are we talking like 30, like uh mid-30s, late late 40s?

SPEAKER_00 15:02

Or let's go for the 40s. Let's go for the people that are in their 40s because that you know, obviously a lot of people make the mistake of not really paying attention to their finances when they're younger, always thinking that money's gonna be there. And everybody has you know great advice about how you can do fix that when you're young. But then what about those of us that are older?

SPEAKER_01 15:22

Well, I mean, if like always I work with a lot of some older clients as well, and it's never too late. I mean, even your 30s or 40s, you're still, I mean, you're still far away from 65. So um the first thing is again, cut back on your expenses. So cut back on just, you know, start saving more and uh spend less than you earn and then invest the difference. So that's the first thing you can do. You know, and the easiest way is to start investing in the um uh start dollar cost averaging into the SP, like into index funds. So basically, it could be the SMP, the Dow Jones, or the NASDAQ, those three over time will in general will produce adequate returns. Uh now there are other ways to grow and compound your money, but uh the safest and easiest way are those three. And you want to save at least 20% of your earned income. So you that's kind of the mad because kind of the traditional outlets, they recommend 10%, but if you save 20%, you're saving 20% more and investing that. So that'll compound and grow. Um, third thing is develop multiple streams of income apart from your job. So if you're just if you're a single W-2 employed doctor, they start diversifying. Um, there's other ways of uh diversifying your income streams. It could be a 1099, a lot of doctors are locums, uh, a lot of doctors are publishing and writing books, they're doing consulting, they're speaking engagements. These can all be on the side. They don't have to replace your clinical income, but they can add and supplement, you know, it could be helpful to save that as well. So diversify your income stream. So I've helped a lot number of doctors do that. Fourth thing is reduce your tax liability. So um again, the your W-2 is not shielded from the high tax brackets as, for example, business owners or 1099, these types of income. So understand that W-2, you are um at the highest uh risk of paying the most taxes. So um reduce your tax liability. That could be either through a tax strategic tax advisor, a CPA. These are very general, uh broad strokes. A lot of uh if you own a business, these that can also be tax deductible. So look into those as well.

SPEAKER_00 17:52

Wow, that's some very concrete advice that you have just given. I want to hone in on one of the things because in the wellness space, I am seeing more and more providers from physicians' assistants, nurse practitioners to medical doctors that are are offering these additional online courses, writing a book, maybe starting a podcast. What are some of the what's some advice you can give to the listeners about doing those things and how do you do it? I mean, obviously your full-time attention is probably going to be in your practice. How do you do this? Do you hire someone to help you out so that you can do it quicker? What do we do?

SPEAKER_01 18:27

I would first thing to set expectations is these types of income streams where you're, for example, a podcast or a book. Um, I wanna, it's helpful to view these things as something as a hobby or that you start on the side, which is what I did with my podcast. Um, you know, I wasn't expecting it to turn into a six-figure revenue generating business, but start so start it with the expectation that this is something that's gonna help you build your brand in the next few years. So that's that's the first thing. But um, especially for the medical community, your time is your most precious asset. So there's a lot of ways to leverage your um income. You can pay a virtual assistant, there's an editor, um, there's a lot of um uh freelancers that can help you um either launch uh write, it can they can help you with all different aspects. So for for a podcast, different entities that can help you launch it, I can edit it, publish, release social media, but find somebody that is good and capable and uh you know at a decent, you know, not not nothing outrageous because you know a lot of agencies they will charge a lot, but then not deliver a lot. So it's it's you are able to find services at uh significant cost savings of good quality. So, you know, if you're listening to this, uh I have references as well, but uh you there's I would say higher help, then that way you can leverage your time and then start to branch out.

SPEAKER_00 20:01

I love that you said consider it a hobby because it will be something that these people will be doing on the side. Like you'll work an eight-hour day, five days a week, and then or maybe more. And then if you also have to do a bot a podcast and you feel like it's a chore, you're not gonna be consistent. And with everything you're discussing, it's a long game, it's not gonna bring instant revenue. So I love that advice to to do it as a hobby. So you've clearly done a lot of right things, right? In your career, you've made a lot of right choices. Is there anything that you did along the way that wasn't a right choice that you kind of regret or you could teach a little lesson on?

SPEAKER_01 20:38

Oh, yeah. So uh, I mean, there's so many like no, you're perfect. So I mean, some some of the things I regret is just uh is to because at that at that time in my framework, just listening to certain people's advice. Uh, and so you know, I'll give you a an example is you know, I was my final year of medical school, and I go to my dean, and um, you know, we have to talk about, you know, what are your plans after medical school, you know, what residencies, etc. And uh for him, I you know, I told him I was more interested in entrepreneurship and in business. And he, you know, his standard advice that he has to give to all 200 of the classes go get into residency, finish residency, finish fellowship, get board certified, practice for a number of years, and then you can branch out. And um, that was his standard advice. And obviously, he, you know, that's his job is to kind of provide sound guidance, you know, talking about entrepreneurship to med students. So um understand where people are coming from when you go to people with advice, especially when it comes to when you're stepping out against the grain. A lot of people did not understand what I was doing back in 2008. And for a long time I had to fight so many people just mentally, I just had to, you know, just kind of separate, just because. We did not see eye to eye and we just could not they just did not understand, you know, where I was coming from. So that's one of the biggest things is really understand who you're taking advice from, what are their motives. You know, parent parents they mean well, but sometimes they just cannot see where you want to be. So that's the first thing. Take advice from people that are doing things that you want to be doing. That, for example, if you want to be a billionaire, go to you know, talk to people that are billionaires or on their way to um you don't want to be talking to your friends that are just kind of they want you, they want to pull you down or see you fail. So that's one thing. Um, the second thing is just understand the touch investments and the risk that comes with it. So if that can be either in real estate, I mean, these days, um, if I could tell you all the stories around real estate, all the stories around stocks, uh you know, that would kind of scare people away. But just understand your risk, uh, risk tolerance. As you're younger, you can take a little bit more risk, and as you're older, you have to be a little bit uh less risk and take less risk. So that's those are some of the things. Um, and again, unlike a lot of a lot of places, you can get a lot of the information, the services, a lot of these you can get for significantly less than what people are charging. So understand what people are charging and understand what the market is. And um, because you know, for example, like uh I just recently talked to an editor and she's charging ten thousand dollars for her service when I have my own personal editor and AI can do it now for a thousand. Understand, you know, kind of you know, shop around, talk to people. So those are kind of the three biggest mistakes that I that I made.

SPEAKER_00 23:42

Got it. Those are very specific and very clear. Let's go back to something else that you said. You you mentioned that you started your podcast as a hobby and now it's a six-figure business.

SPEAKER_01 23:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:54

Selfishly, and because I hear a lot of other providers wanting to talk about you know starting a podcast. What are some of the things that you did to make your podcast financially successful?

SPEAKER_01 24:04

Oh, so one thing, oh, that that's so I really uh love this question because um, and I spoke to it at Podfest that you were there. And one of the things is um I again, I I viewed it as a hobby, but I wanted to monetize it from day one. And the reason why I wanted to monetize it from day one, because uh there's a couple of reasons. You know, the first reason was if I monetize it as fast as I could, just that first dollar, it would give me momentum, it would give me extra mental edge and confidence to be like, okay, I'm on the right path. Whereas, you know, if I'm languishing and you know, it's not monetized for the next uh year or two, you know, it's so that's the one thing I just I set out. I was like, it's gonna be a hobby, it's a side hobby, but I want to make some extra income. So what I first did was I just started um selling my cert. The easiest way is you sell 15 minute, 30 minute, an hour consulting coaching service with you. That's the easiest way to start monetizing. Uh, you just say at the end or middle beginning of the show, you say, if you uh enjoy this content or this conversation, I offer services in XYZ, you know, book a call in the show notes. That's the fastest way you can start to monetize. So just one-on-one training your time, coaching consulting services. Next thing is you can do is uh write a book. So I I was advertising my books, uh, that's more of a passive way. Courses, that's another passive way. You can do an online community, group webinars, group coaching. So these are the types of things. Um, the other fastest way to monetize is through affiliate uh programs and products. So, you know, Amazon, you know, a lot of I got a lot of book recommendations from the audience and the guests that I could put in the show notes. And so basically, affiliate works is if somebody makes a purchase, you get a per certain percentage of it. So um, those are kind of the quick and easy way. And then as the podcasts or whatever your medium or brand grows, you can start thinking about advertising and sponsorships and uh high-ticket offers.

SPEAKER_00 26:09

I love that trajectory because you didn't start with sponsorships, and that's the first place everybody goes. And that's that's a tough deal, not just to find the sponsors, maintain the sponsors, and to prove to the sponsors that their money is worth spending. So you laid out a bunch of other really great ways that people can make money from a podcast. That's awesome. So you mentioned a few times about how you shared that you could help people and you do consulting. So, how do you well, who do you work with and what do you offer?

SPEAKER_01 26:39

Yeah, so uh I work with uh now uh high-income earners, uh, I work with doctors, lawyers, dentists looking to achieve time freedom from their traditional job. So it could either be through um stock investing, could be real estate, could be um building a brand, writing books, coaching courses, speaking. So I I work with doctors and uh clients who are seeking to achieve additional sources of income apart from their traditional job. And more recently, a lot of uh doctors have branched into this area where they want to learn how to sell high-ticket coaching and and offers and courses to their community. So I I show one of my signatures is I I teach doctors how to make five to 10k in a single weekend with around three hours of of work through webinars.

SPEAKER_00 27:32

Love that. Love that. Now I'll put it in the show notes, but you know, just share quickly how do we find you?

SPEAKER_01 27:38

Easiest way, uh go to drchlewmdphd.com. And my last name is um l-o-o, and uh just enter in your details and your information, and we'll get back to you. Um all right, cool.

SPEAKER_00 27:52

And I'll definitely put that in the show notes. And I I listened to a lot. So I what the first thing I I love about your podcast is that it's short. So I don't have to choose like, is it this three-hour podcast or you? I can listen to you and the three-hour podcast. I love that. And you bring on the most interesting people. So I don't even know where you find all these people, but we met at Podfest this past year and I was in the audience and Dr. Liu was speaking. And so it seems like you pull people from all walks of life that just have a good story to tell. Is that how you find your guests?

SPEAKER_01 28:21

Yeah, uh, I mean, we get uh so one, so we get a lot of uh inbound from uh booking agents looking to make appearances on the podcast, uh also from in-get guest appearances at events, podfest, uh, and we also get a lot of inbound leads from LinkedIn as well. So uh, and basically the purpose of the podcast is to share inspiring stories of entrepreneurs, business owners who have achieved either financial independence, financial freedom that have built a business around new, innovative, exciting trends. I know yours is the uh, you know, cash pay medical practices. Uh, we get a lot of guests in the AI tech, so entrepreneurs, founders, and uh really to just share and inspire and give brand visibility to the guests.

SPEAKER_00 29:06

Cool. Well, I'll put a link to the podcast as well. Um, it's been so much fun talking to you. Before we go, um, I have this tradition. I stole this concept from another podcaster, Diary of a CEO, is my favorite podcast out there, Steve Bartlett. I mention him every episode in hopes that one day he will find me and he will talk to me. But anyway, he what he does is he asks the guest a question from the past guest, but that person does not know who the question is being asked to. So I have a question for you from my last guest. And that question is if you could talk to your future version of yourself, what would you tell yourself not to wait on doing and why?

SPEAKER_01 29:46

Well, that's a great question. I would, if I were talking to my future self, I would say, do not wait to get started on your dreams. And I know because you know, I was I do a lot of goal setting and and journaling every day. And you know, some of these goals that I that I want to make and create, some of my brain just goes, it freezes up because it's just so like it's just like how would that happen? And and just you know, oh, that could never happen. So really just get started just one step at a time. And I I use this uh new technique that I learned is you know, when the time is tough, especially the last six years, it's been really tough in you know, just the economy and just uh geopolitically, everything. So I just use this thing where it's like just um either you take it, they'd say take it day by day. Sometimes I break it down to seconds, seconds, and then if I make it through this second, then I'm it's a win, or just like find that emotional, that mental, that spiritual leverage to what's to make it to the next to let and then just take that take tiny steps and just and um and you just you have to execute. And even I mean, I I'll give you an example. Like I've seen podcasts like Steve Barlett's, and I mean it's like how could they they're like millions of followers, and I and then uh and then you know I'm I'm six years in and I'm like I could never do that, but it's like you learn and you grow and you you change and you evolve. So just get started and and take that first step. That's that would be what I would say.

SPEAKER_00 31:23

I feel like I feel confident you're gonna get there. Absolutely. You know, when you said that I I'm a runner and so I run marathons, and um sometimes the pain is just too much. And I think about I've got five miles left. And so instead, I just think run to that tree, okay? Run to that, you know, next tree, run to that light. And when you may give yourself smaller goals versus these big, giant, overwhelming ones, it really does kind of create context and you will likely get there. So thank you for that advice. I really appreciate it.

SPEAKER_01 31:56

Yeah, I really, and I'm a fellow runner too, and it's like I really enjoy the uh the journey. And um, and you know, when you look back, it's like you know, you look back and you're like you're here and you're like, oh, I I was struggling or so painful. But then when you look at how far you've come, it's like, you know, you you actually amaze yourself.

SPEAKER_00 32:17

Absolutely. And I bet the same thing happens to your bank account, right? When you start making those incremental changes.

SPEAKER_01 32:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:24

All right, Dr. Lou, thank you so much for your time today. This has been absolutely amazing. I cannot wait to get this out to everybody. And I'll have the references you referred to, uh, the link to work with you, and a link to your podcast all in the show notes. So if you're listening and you're driving, get to where you're going and then you can go look at it.

SPEAKER_01 32:40

Excellent. Thank you. Thanks so much.

SPEAKER_00 32:43

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