Ep #67 - From Surviving to Scaling Your Practice

What happens when a wellness practitioner builds a thriving practice — and nearly destroys their health in the process? That was Joanna Sapir’s reality. Six months after opening her strength and conditioning gym with no business background, she ended up in the emergency room. Stress. Pure, undeniable stress. And that moment became the turning point that led her to completely reinvent how she ran her business — and eventually, how she helps hundreds of wellness practitioners do the same.

Joanna is a wellness business coach, founder of the Profitable Practitioner Academy, and Masters National Champion in Olympic weightlifting. She works with practitioners across all health and wellness fields — from acupuncturists to functional medicine providers — helping them build profitable, sustainable practices through what she calls a business remodel.

In this conversation, Jody and Joanna get into the specifics: the exact exercise Joanna uses to help practitioners identify their “bullseye clients,” why beige marketing is costing you new patients, and why building programs instead of selling sessions is the difference between a practice that runs you and a practice you actually own.

Topics covered:
• Why so many practitioners build great clinical skills but skip the business fundamentals — and what happens when that catches up with them
• The “programatize your services” model: what it is, how it works, and why it applies to nearly every wellness practice type
• The yes/no client exercise that reveals your bullseye audience in under 20 minutes
• Why turning away the wrong clients is actually a revenue strategy — not a sacrifice
• The “beige marketing” problem and how speaking to a specific person creates a magnetic pull
• How to handle the “what if they don’t get results in time?” fear that stops practitioners from committing to structured programs
• Lead generation, podcast guesting, and educational partnerships — what’s actually working in 2025 for wellness business growth
 
Free gift from Joanna:
Three powerful business systems to transform your practice — lead generation, the “red velvet rope” sales filter, and her “speak your language” client language tool.

Get it at: joannasapir.com/beyondhormones

Connect with Joanna:
Website:  joannasapir.com
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/joannasapir/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joanna-sapir/

This podcast is powered by Accelerated Medical Practices, where we believe hormone and wellness care should be both life-changing and profitable.  If you own or run a clinic and are interested in being a guest on the show, please complete the form here and let's connect!  Or email Jody at Jody@AcceleratedMedicalPractices.com.

 🚀 Grow your clinic with proven systems at AcceleratedMedicalPractices.com

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:14

Welcome to Beyond Hormones, the Business of Wellness, the podcast for hormone and functional medicine providers who want a thriving, predictably profitable practice, and maybe a little less stress along the way. Hi, I'm your host, Jody Lane, and I've worked with lots of clinics in marketing, sales, and business development, and I have seen what works and what doesn't. And here's what I believe hormone and wellness care should be available to everyone who wants it. And while providers know the medicine, many struggle with the business side of their cash practice. And that's where I come in. See, this podcast is here to share real strategies, real stories, things you can implement in your practice right away. So I am so glad you're here. Come on, let's go. Okay, welcome back everyone to the Beyond Hormones, the Business of Wellness Podcast. I'm Jodie Lane, your host, and today I have a very special guest. My guest started out as a high school teacher, then she built a brick and mortar fitness and wellness business from the ground up. And she's gonna tell on herself she had no idea what she was doing, and we're gonna learn all about what she did. And then she found herself completely burnt out, overwhelmed, and running what she describes as the most stressful job masquerading as a business. Can you relate? It's possible you can. Well, that breaking point became the turning point in her career. Joanna Sapir is a wellness business coach who helps holistic and innovative health practitioners build sustainable, profitable practices with more income, better clients, and a lot less chaos. Something we talk about quite a bit here on this podcast. She's also a master's national champion in Olympic weightlifting, the founder of the Profitable Practitioner Academy, and someone who's lived every up and down the wellness entrepreneur's face. So she gets us. So I would like to welcome Joanne to the podcast. How are you?

SPEAKER_01 2:13

Good. Thanks so much for having me, Jody. It's great to be here.

SPEAKER_00 2:16

Absolutely. I'm I so for those of you who are listening, I'll tell you that Joanne and I met prior to recording today. And I would say within the first two minutes, we just hit it off and we realized that we think a lot alike about what wellness practitioners should do in their business. Would you agree?

SPEAKER_01 2:34

Yes, much alignment there, which honestly is great. I mean, I I feel like it means that it's real. This is solid. This is like we know what we're talking about, right?

SPEAKER_00 2:47

Well, and and so we have a little bit of different backgrounds, but why don't you explain to us a little bit about how you got started uh first building your own your own uh business and then how you transitioned into doing consulting.

SPEAKER_01 3:00

Yeah. Well, you started to tell my story. I mean, basically, I started a strength and conditioning gym with no experience in business whatsoever. I say that I started it by accident because really I had moved to a new town, really in a pretty rural area. And just in the couple of years before that, I had found strength training for the first time. And it totally changed my life. And I was like, oh my goodness, I love this. It was empowering. I've just felt so much stronger in all ways, mentally, physically, you know, emotionally, everything. And um, and so when I moved to this new place, I couldn't find any place to do the kind of training I wanted to do. Like I hopped around, I tried all these gyms and personal trainers and boot camps, and I was like, this all sucks. I guess I just need to do this myself. And really, people just started joining me, like on this land where I was working out outside. And then I was like, okay, it's gonna start the rains are gonna start, it's gonna turn to winter. I better like find a place to rent, you know, that has a roof. And I mean, seriously, that's how it started. And so I ended up opening this gym. I mean, it was really just so thrown together. And then I found out I had to get a conditional use permit through the city and I had to show up in front of some board, you know, all the stuff. And I did all the stuff and I opened this business, and um, it's interesting. I mean, I had clients right away because I knew people in the community and people were finding me. And yeah, it was like a total, it was a terrible job with the split shift when I was a single mom with two little kids. It was like I really I burned out really fast. I actually ended up in the emergency room with very strange symptoms. Um and the doctors could not figure out what was wrong with me. They ran all these tests, and like two hours in, I was the one who was like, Oh, this is this is just like this manifestation of stress. Yeah, you know, and I knew it. I just knew that's you know, that's what this is. And so decided, all right, like I gotta figure this out. Like people figure this out. I gotta figure this out. And so just set about really starting to learn, you know, the business of business. Um, and so really at that point kind of set a vision. And I was just like, okay, this is not my life's work. It kind of happens fairly accidentally, you know, that I started this in the first place, but I definitely want it to make me a living and I want it to be something that I can walk away from and that it exists without me. So I want it, I want to build it to be like sellable essentially, you know, even if that's not what I do. But I did, I did eventually. I mean, I knew that in the long run I probably would. Um, and uh and I did. I sold it in 2017, and you know, it was a business that ran without me. It was a profitable business that was worth something, right? And and had the systems and structures for it to for anybody else to, you know, take it over. So um, so I knew already at that point that I wanted to be teaching other people because as um as it was, I was the client of so many different health and wellness practitioners myself. And just over and over, so you mentioned I'm I'm I I do weightlifting, Olympic style weightlifting, and I have for almost 20 years now competitively. And, you know, so here I was, this was, you know, back in the peak of my days. And it's like I'm competing two or three times a year, sometimes for I mean, I'm really working my body and I'm running a business, you know, and so I would see people to take care of my health, and they were great, but let's just say, like body workers in particular, you know, they were great, and yet I still didn't feel like they were really skilled and really wonderful people who I didn't feel like were taking care of me in the way that they could actually. It's like I'd show up to each session and it would just kind of be like, Well, how are you doing today? How's your body today? And I I, you know, would kind of regularly be like, I have this competition in six weeks, I have this competition in three months, I'm ramping up my training, you know, I'm peeking. Like I wanted them to like be on my team the way my weightlifting coach was. I mean, he's like completely like programming everything for me, right? I wanted these practitioners supporting me and my physical and mental health to be like programming for me, like, yes, the goals. Here's what we're going for. And so that was one thing that I saw that people were missing that I had learned how to do in the gym is really create um, create programs, create containers for people that are really like helping them reach their goals that aren't sort of this never-ending just session by session, month by month, you just go until you go, you know. Right, right. Um, and and that is actually really common in a gym setting to just do it like that monthly, monthly membership or something. But we had, we had learned to, or I had learned, to programmatize our services. So there was like a beginning, middle, and end. And people, you know, the end could mean then it's the beginning of the next one, but it's like actually making milestones and markers for what we're going for. And additionally, these these practitioners were struggling. They were either totally booked and busy and burned out, exactly as I had been and had experience. So I knew what that was like. Like they were in high demand, you know. I mean, you could see, you could see some of them, their own health was like completely had gone by the wayside, and they're like health practitioners, you know. And it's just because yeah, we're so busy. And then on the other hand, you know, you might I might see somebody and it was like a bad month, and they're like, if you have anybody you can refer, and it's like ups and downs, yeah, these ups and downs. And um, so anyway, it was just so clear to me that this is this was who I wanted to help because like they're these are amazing people doing amazing work, but it's just like you gotta decide to learn the business side to make this like sustainable and profitable for you. But on top of that, when I'm talking about serving your clients better, serving your clients better, you know, serving your clients more powerfully as well. It's not just about, in my opinion, selling sessions.

SPEAKER_00 9:14

So hey listeners, whether this is your first episode of Beyond Hormones or your 50th, I hope you can tell by now how much I love working in the hormone industry and sharing my tips, experience, and guest stories to help you succeed. Your success is truly my personal joy. So if you don't mind, I want to take a quick moment to share a product of ours that I know will truly help many of you build the clinic you have been dreaming of. It's called Practice Automation System. Now, here's something that most of the clinics I've spoken with that have scaled past seven figures have quietly figured out. Most marketing doesn't fail trying to get leads, it fails after you've already reached them. According to studies, up to 87% of people don't pick up unknown calls anymore. Isn't that crazy? But deep down, I bet you realize it's true. I know I don't answer unknown phone calls, do you? So that means even if your front desk is being incredible and calling them as soon as they come in, there's a good chance they're not gonna reach them. And if that's all you try, your marketing dollars just vanished. Not because your advertising didn't produce, it's because your message didn't get through. The practice automation system is what we built so that doesn't happen. To reach someone these days, you need to nurture them. They used to say it took five to seven touches to reach someone. Now it can be as high as 20, 30, or even more. We help you text them within five minutes, nurture them automatically for weeks and months. The pipeline keeps moving even when your front desk is busy. I spent years running and growing a hormone clinic in Orlando where we grew to over a thousand patients, four providers, and 23 staff members. So we know this works. You know why? Because we used it ourselves well before we turned this into a product. We're not guessing what hormone patients need because we experienced it. To find out if Practice Automation System is the solution you've been looking for, go to accelerated medical practices.com slash automation. That's acceleratedmedical practices.com slash automation. All right, let's get back to the show. Wow, so this is three three things I heard you say that I would love to chat a little bit more about. The first one is that you know you noticed where your kind of failure was as a business owner. And for you, it was not really that you didn't have the right mindset. You just it kind of came out of nowhere, right? Like it wasn't like you sat down and you made a which you probably do with your clients now. You create a business plan and you figured out what your pricing was going to be and you figured out your packages before you open your doors. It was like, oh, I have clients now. What do I do with them? But does that help you uh like connect with your clients now? Because I'm sure a lot of your clients now feel the same way. They they just they just said, no one's gonna let me do this in the in their practice, so I'm gonna open my own and then I'll figure it out. Is that do you feel that way?

SPEAKER_01 12:33

Oh, plenty, no, plenty of my clients uh are well established and it can be years down the line, and they're like, I don't, you know, I it it all happened by accident. It's like none of it was none of it was strategic. And the thing is, is nobody's teaching, I mean, none, no certification programs. You know, I work with a lot of acupuncturists, for example. They go to school for like five years. They're not learning, nobody's teaching them the business side. And so they everybody is just making it up and doing, you know, rolling with it and figuring out what they can. And the problem is, is a few years in that that burnout, that time I ended up in the emergency room, that was six months after I opened. It happened very fast. And, you know, it was really a blessing in disguise that it happened that fast. You know what I mean? Because I learned really early on, like, oh, I gotta learn, I gotta learn how to do this right. Otherwise, this is not, you know, I can't, I can't do this otherwise. Um, but many people are just years in and they're like, I it just feels like such a chaotic mess, you know.

SPEAKER_00 13:39

It's I think you're unique though, that you even though you did have that sort of circumstance that caused you to stop and take a look, I could see how another person would think, oh, well, I just need to hire somebody else, or like they wouldn't recognize it as the calling card that it was. Which I think, you know, as you were telling your story initially today, I figured out why I connected with you so quickly. Because I see a lot of business coaches, especially in the wellness space, that did not live at first. They went out and they said, Oh, wellness is cool. That's an area that is growing. It's going to be like a, I think I heard like a $30 trillion industry by the end of 2028, something like massive like that. So I'm gonna go focus on that area because I can make money there. Whereas you experience what these clinicians are going through and then learn yourself and then put it into practice, which is exactly what they do with their patients, right? I mean, most of them have had some kind of epiphany and said, no, I'm not gonna go traditional medicine, I'm gonna go learn this wellness side, and then I'm gonna bring it to my patients. Do you think that's true?

SPEAKER_01 14:44

Yeah, yeah, totally.

SPEAKER_00 14:46

Yeah. So at what point did you really like I hear that you you gradually thought to yourself, okay, you're a teacher, like you're a teacher by trade. That's what you did. I did this business, I learned a lot. Now I'm gonna combine the two and go teach people how to do business well. At what point did you say, I'm gonna consciously make this into a business?

SPEAKER_01 15:06

Um, okay, I was actually, so one of the places where I was receiving support when I owned my gym was a fitness business coaching company. Fitness is an area that has quite a bit of that kind of stuff going on. And they recruited me to be one of their coaches after I had been with them as a client for a few years. So I was doing that online. And it was, this was actually like Zoom didn't exist yet. We were using other software. Like this was pretty this was pretty early on. I mean, it was pretty innovative to be doing like internet coaching, you know, like uh video call coaching this way before COVID, like way before COVID. Um, so I already had a taste. That's that's what prompted it. It was I was like, oh, this is so natural to me. Do you know what I mean? Like working with these other business owners. And so, you know, I'm I'm I'm doing that. And then um what did you ask me?

SPEAKER_00 16:01

What made me at what point did you say I'm gonna formalize this into a business?

SPEAKER_01 16:04

Oh yeah. So people started in my local community, started coming to me. That's that's what happened, is um people started asking me for help. And so I actually was just doing stuff for like free and sort of trade. Like, you know, I had my business already, like I was just kind of doing it on the side. Um and I I do recall, I haven't ever been asked this question. It's been a long time since I've even thought about it because it's so many years ago. But I do recall that I was kind of like testing the waters, like, is this something that I enjoy? You know what I mean? And um and to answer your question, I'm I think I think I must have decided to really do it after I remember I had one client who I'm still in touch with and still comes to our retreats who like you know, it was like all my systems just like boom worked. Like she did it. Do you know what I mean? She did everything I told her, and it was just like bang, there you go. And I think maybe it was that kind of proof of concept. I was like, oh, look, this totally works. And she was completely, you know, non-gym situation. And um, and I think that might have been the a big a big catalyst there.

SPEAKER_00 17:13

It makes sense. It makes sense. I mean when you see your work come to fruition in front of you, and I've had that experience too. Like, you can say the same thing to five different clients, but the one that does it everything from A to Z and gets the result, you're like, oh, okay, you know what? Maybe it's not me. Which brings me to a question. So, what would you say is the most frustrating thing with working with one of your clients?

SPEAKER_01 17:40

Frustrating. I mean, I sure don't want to, I'm not gonna speak to any single individual client, but if a a challenge in um a challenge is simply that um just this issue, why don't people do what they're being told to do? Right? Like, why would don't people? And it's just that humans are complicated and we have like all kinds of conditioning that we have to unlearn and all kinds of fears, and our nervous systems are wired in these ways that like often keep us stuck. And that's a that's that's hard. I I don't necessarily have the tools to help somebody untangle that. Um, so we have actually in my program, we have something called soul support, which is led by a practitioner who is who is skilled and that is in her lane to do that practice to do that to help people with that, like a mindset coach kind of a thing? Yeah, well, she's a real like trauma resolution practitioner, nervous system, somatic experiencing practitioners, got a whole bunch of training. But um, I mean, essentially it's therapy. But I really think everybody should be in therapy, like, or you know, entrepreneurs who like have these issues, like, should be in therapy. I mean, some of us are wired, like it can be the same kind of, you know, uh I don't want to make everything trauma, but it can be the same, like some of us are strategies that we've developed in life to get through whatever hardships we had. Some of us our strategies are to are to go at it and work hard and be productive, right? And some of us it's if we freeze. And so, you know, uh the the ones where where people are are just sort of frozen and stuck, like that's hard. That's really hard, you know, because um, because they want to move forward too, and it's and it's challenging. So yeah, soul support, we have it.

SPEAKER_00 19:23

I love that. I love that. Now that's as a really important thing, you know. We do a workshop in the very first section of our workshop, we just talk about mindset. And, you know, I don't know if you agree with this, but I will talk a practitioner out of opening their clinic if they don't have the right mindset. Like this is hard. This is not you just show up to work every day and take care of patients and go home. That's only like that's half of what you do. And there's so much more, and it takes something. Um, which is why I love that we met because you know, we both are doing the same thing. We're we're both committed to helping practitioners. So tell us a little bit about your program. Tell us what you what you offer and you know, just let's start there. What do you offer?

SPEAKER_01 20:01

Um, so I work with um I work with practitioners in all sorts of health and wellness fields, all service-based. Um, and I so I work with people on the spectrum from the booked and busy and right, and been in business for years and years, and it's just not sustainable. Um, and they finally come to that point where they've realized like I need to, you know, change this. And then I also work with people who are newer and just getting going. And so for the booked and busy folks, I call it a business remodel. So that's really essentially honestly what I do is I teach a very particular business model, and that is to programatize your services rather than to sell sessions or sell even a membership doesn't quite. I mean, some people might use the word membership and mean it in the way I talk about programs, but generally, as I know, a membership, it it's sort of open-ended. It kind of goes on forever and can maybe even be ended whenever you want. Whereas a program is really a commitment that a client or patient and the practitioner are making together for the journey they're gonna, the journey that the that the practitioner is gonna lead the client or patient on, and what you're doing in that journey. And that all starts with the the client and what are their, you know, what are their pains and their problems and what are their goals and their desires? What do they need to get there? And what so I'm so I teach practitioners how to programmatize their services and then how to, and before doing that, they have to identify who are their what I call bullseye clients, right? Who are their ideal clients? And I'll just note that, you know, anybody that teaches business um talks about this. They talk about it in different ways. I often hear like niche. I mean, that's the most common one. Like people say, Oh, I know I'm supposed to niche down, but it's so hard. I don't even talk about it as niche because sure you might end up The niche, but it's just get clear on who you love to work with and seize the best results from your services. Right. It's like who are the people that you love and the ones that your wisdom and your skill set is so perfect for their issues. And that's why I work with wellness practitioners, right? It's like I have so much experience, not just myself having been a practitioner, but like as the client, I it's it's very much like where where my heart and my passion are.

SPEAKER_00 22:33

And how do you help them? How do you help them identify that? I mean, that because I agree with you 100%. Look, we only work with hormone clinics. Like how niche can you get? It's a very, very specific. So how do you help a practitioner that says, because we call it target audience, but like how do you help somebody who says, well, for a hormone clinician, it's anybody over the age of 40. Okay, well, that's really broad. And of course that may be true. We're not telling you to turn people away who don't fit into your bullseye audience, but how do you help a practitioner like really identify for themselves who they love to work with?

SPEAKER_01 23:06

Um, anybody who's experienced, I lead them through, even just in a free workshop, I'll lead people through a really simple exercise that I can share here, which is you know, you pull out a piece of paper and you put a line down the middle, and on the left side you write yes, and on the right side you write no. And even just from memory, you write down who were my favorite clients ever, yes side. Who are my least favorite clients ever, no side. Usually we remember those people. Like if you have to go look through your files, fine, but usually we remember like, oh, that person and that person, right? And you sure remember the ones that were that were, you know, a pain. And so for each of those names, I then have people write a list, why what made that person a favorite client, you know, for each one, and then same for the no. And you know, anytime somebody does this, there's just really clear patterns there. There's really clear patterns. And so a lot of times it's, you know, in in marketing languages, psychographic is not even necessarily like, you know, demographic kind of stuff. Right. But, you know, exactly for hormone clinics, it's like, okay, obviously, you know, this age or whatever that we already got that, but honing in on what were these favorite people like? And you'll see, you'll see patterns. So that's a that's an exercise I love to do. We do a bunch more, but that's my favorite to do.

SPEAKER_00 24:26

And then how do you how do you deal with the the pushback where they say, well, but I'm just starting out. I don't, I, I can't afford not to take the nose. You know, I'll I'll get rid of them later when I'm busier and bigger and I can afford to, you know, fire a patient. Because, you know, that's that's a very real fear for practitioners when they're starting out. Like if you're telling me to be really uh specific about who I can take on, you're telling me to leave money on the table.

SPEAKER_01 24:49

Oh, yeah. No, that's real in my program, especially once people, because we help them build their whole sales process and their sales process has these filters in place. And um, it's so interesting. We actually celebrate when somebody, I mean, they come to us and are like, I turned somebody away for the first time. And they feel really empowered around it. What it takes is the thing is, is they can make mistakes. I say to them, I'm like, look, if like you think that you need to take somebody, even if they're not feeling right to you, you know, even if you can tell that they're not not on target, they're not on the bullseye, go ahead and see how it goes. And and then we reflect on it. And it's like once people are clear on who their, again, I call them bullseye clients are. Once people are clear on who their bullseye clients are and are working with them, are calling them in and working with them, they are so aware of somebody who's not. Yeah, it's like it's so much more draining, it's so much more of just sort of like not fun anymore, not easy anymore. And so it becomes easier and easier for them. But just going back a little bit to what the resistance people might feel, even hearing in the first place that they got to get more specific is but I can help anyone, right? And this is where like you'll you you know the marketing angle, Jody. It's like I as a client, I have I, if I'm going to a website, your website, and checking it out, like so. Look at we said I'm an athlete, right? So I'm a weightlifter. And if I go to any service, hormone clinic, uh gym, body worker, physical therapist, anything, and it's like just this general messaging that's like, you know, something like feel better, blah, blah, blah. And it's not specific to me, I'm just it's neutral. Do you know what I mean? It's neutral. It's just sort of blah. Right. But if like if you're saying to me, like for athletic act for active women who are, you know what I mean, who are still young and do-do, like things that describe me, I'm like, oh, it's like strong magnetic attraction. Like, oh, this is for me, right? That's not even to say repel. If you say it's, you know, hormone clinic for you know, men who've lost their sex drive, that's just a simple repelling, great, not for me. But that middle ground, that neutral, if we think about it like a magnet, we want to attract, and it's fine to repel, but that middle ground of nothingness is just sort of nothingness. Like you just don't get much going on there at all. And so just to note that to anybody listening, it's like the bland doesn't work, you know. You want to be really talking to a specific person so they see themselves going, oh, this is for me, you know.

SPEAKER_00 27:43

Yeah, there's an another gentleman he owns, uh, I referenced this before. So, Uli, if you're listening, um, I really was hit by this. So he owns a company called Big Boost Marketing. He he does uh websites and marketing for functional medicine doctors, and he had a podcast when I was listening, and he said, if your marketing is beige, then you are not attracting anyone. And what he meant by that was if what you're saying could literally be on anyone's social media channel, just swap out the logo, you're missing the boat. And if you piss people off, that's okay. If you fight people, that's okay, but you've got to say something, and it's usually in the form of a story or your experience or your target audience or something that really allows you to go beyond that beige, you know, kind of messaging, which is what you're saying right now.

SPEAKER_01 28:31

Yeah. So um, yeah, and so again, but just to answer your question, the thing about turning away people, it's like just try it. Yeah, try taking everyone and see how that is, which is how most people start, right? But then when you really hone in on your people, what I say is, you know, you build your whole practice around the people you love working with and that see the best results from your services. Like just imagine that. Like everyone is one of your favorite clients, everyone. Like you build your practice around them. And then also you become that's how you get more referrals and right, everybody's talking about you, you become known. You know, it's not it's not beige. Your it's not beige.

SPEAKER_00 29:13

Yeah, well, and and there's a lot of indirect costs to taking on those people. So if you have really difficult patients, your staff is going to be affected and you can use great staff because of it. Um, my husband taught me this 25 years ago when we were just working together, we weren't even together, and he said, because I have a tendency to do more for people than I should. Like you pay me to do one task, but I'll do four. And he was like, Okay, come up with what your hourly rate is. It could be whatever you want, 100 bucks an hour. Okay, great. $100 an hour. That's what you're worth. If you spend seven hours on somebody who paid you something that was worth two, it was paid you $200, you spend seven hours with them, you now donated all of that time to them and you're no longer profitable. And these difficult patients can really drain your time.

unknown 30:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:05

And difficult doesn't necessarily I don't, I mean, I don't know how you're using it, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they're personally difficult. Their their case may be difficult. And so it's like up to you to know ahead of time, right?

SPEAKER_00 30:18

Program to put them in.

SPEAKER_01 30:19

Yes, exactly. Yeah. So yes, you're exactly right. They take you, you know, when you home, when you design your whole business around these ideal people and programmatize your services, et cetera, it's so streamlined. It's so it allows you to streamline everything. It's just like on clockwork, right? This is how we help these people.

SPEAKER_00 30:38

Is there any kind of practice that could not programmatize their their services?

SPEAKER_01 30:44

Like, do you ever people always come to me and say, like, can I do this in my kind of business? And I'm like, Oh yeah, I just did it with them, you know. So I haven't had anybody. I mean, maybe there is, but I I have I don't again, I screen my people and I would not bring somebody into my program who I didn't know that I could help, right? That's how it is. Um, and uh, so I've never had anyone, and this is everything from um, I mean, there's all just so many different businesses I've worked with. We have I include in wellness things like I have, you know, art therapy teachers, creative expression, um, all kinds of coaches, um, you know, all kinds of coaches and all kinds of hands-on, hands-on work as well.

SPEAKER_00 31:27

So, no, it's honestly it for me listening to you explain how you pragmatize, if you are in the wellness industry and you cannot find a way to create a milestone which ends a program. So, like you said, it's not like you're just saying goodbye to them. Maybe they're just finishing phase one or whatever. If you don't have a way for them to track that they're getting better in some fashion, better being very loose term, improving, then maybe you're not actually helping your patient. You know, and I'm like, there's got to be some milestone that gets them from point A to point B, which is I'm I'm assuming how you kind of figure out what those programs are, correct?

SPEAKER_01 32:08

Yeah. And and I should note this isn't about like promising results, because none of us can promise results, but it is about taking people through a process that you have proven, you know, can get people somewhere. So um people always ask me, like, what uh before they work with me, like what what if, you know, what if some case is taking longer, somebody's taking longer than it's supposed to and stuff. So I will just say that we build, um, again, we build when I work with practitioners, we'll we're building, we're looking at those past clients and we're looking at their cases. And some of my practitioner clients will end up, for example, with a program that actually has three different lengths and they're doing an assessment to determine which length they think this person needs. The their prospective client or patient doesn't know that there's three different lengths, right? Right. That's the practitioner determining that what's the right one for them. And then another question people get is well, what if somebody, you know, we're we're halfway through or we're getting to the end and they totally haven't made progress. And honestly, my answer is always just tell the truth. Tell the truth all along the way. When you're in a program together, this is so different than this session by session where you're just kind of like checking in and being like, How are things going? And hoping they rebook or, you know, or month by month, whatever it is. It's not just this endless thing. You're actually on a path together. And that's what we do in the assessment and the consultation process is build out that path. So the practitioner should be checking in with the patient always. Here's where we are at this stage. Let's check in, right? This is what I'm saying. So that if there is some case, which you know can happen, of course, where somebody somebody might be moving really quickly or somebody might be moving really slowly, or whatever it is, there's just you're just telling the truth. And if somebody is gonna need more, like we're not gonna get there by what we said, you just say that, right? But these are not not usual cases, right? So, but there's no uh you just tell the truth. You just tell the truth.

SPEAKER_00 34:14

Yeah, I mean you're laughing because it's so incredibly simple. And you know, in the hormone world, we deal with more membership packages because hormones are for life. So, you know, there's there's maybe weight loss is more systemized packages, but there is always that kind of concern. Well, what if I can't give them the result because of something outside of my control? Yeah. Then you you don't just keep working for free until they get the result, especially if A, it's a compliance issue on their part, or B, it's something going on physiologically that you weren't aware of and you couldn't have predicted. And so yeah, tell the truth and then you you sell them what they need.

SPEAKER_01 34:55

Exactly. Tell the truth and give them what they need. And if there are other resources that they need, direct them to those or provide those if you can, whatever. I would just argue, though, that even in if hormones are for life, there's still phases to it, right? So it's not just like, okay, we're just on this track. Like, is it the first couple of years, or at what point do we start like looking at shifting this in some way? Or at what point is, you know, does this get changed? It's like uh as we age, I would still say that there's phases to that journey, even if it's for the whole rest of your life. What are those phases? You know?

SPEAKER_00 35:30

Well, there's sort of an, I mean, the way that we build the memberships, it's sort of inherently built in. So when you bring somebody in, it is true, you're as you age, your body changes. The practitioner needs to continually do it labs. They need to continue to monitor the patient, bring them in. It's not like you give them, you see them once, you just give them prescriptions. Usually a patient's coming in every three to four months and getting labs as needed at least once a year. Um, and it if you're if the modality needs to change, if the dosage needs to change, then maybe the price point will change, or if there's other issues that suddenly get presented. So now they have a metabolic issue, or maybe they need to be on a GLP one, like there's you can create additional packages to it. Um, we've seen no success with hormone clinics that have a membership plan that goes forever. And you just continually come in and you get checked and rediagnosed, you know, every three to four months.

SPEAKER_01 36:26

Yeah. Um, and there's they're not they're not like an it's not like presented as like an annual plan. It's just months.

SPEAKER_00 36:36

So there are practitioners that do that. Um, and I guess it just depends on semantics and how they want to run the back end. So the reason I don't like annual plans is because it's almost like giving the patient like a false expectation that at the end of a year there's an exit. You're on hormones until you either die or decide that you don't want to be healthy any longer. Like those are the two choices. It's not like your body suddenly produces the hormones on their own. So I personally prefer that a practitioner kind of keep that relationship ongoing, but is an absolute annual check-in. Like you want to make sure every year that you're doing something additional to make sure that that patient is fully supported. And it also depends on whether the practice has anything else besides hormones. You know, the hormone industry in and of itself, and I don't want to take over the conversation, but the hormone industry itself is very vague. So there are some practices that just do testosterone, estrogen, progesterone, and thyroid. And then there are some that add in functional medicine, and there are some that add in weight loss, and some that add in aesthetics. So the variety of package options are huge. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So I know that you don't do marketing for your clients, but marketing is always a topic that comes up. You know, when people are interested in how you're finding people. So for your own business, and we just were talking about this a little bit before we hit record button. How do you find new clients? What is working out there today for you that you can share?

SPEAKER_01 38:04

Yeah, for me, which is really different from your clients. So I would think, and people listening as an online online coaching business, but um ha ha, I mean, this is going to sound funny, but podcast guesting is a way that I get new leads. So the way I do that is I'm on here talking to you. And then, you know, at the end of this, at the end of our conversation, I'll be offering a free gift for people. And so they'll end up on my email list, and then I can start talking to them from there. Um I have partners that I provide, um, that I provide educational uh like masterclasses for their clients. So for example, I have an insurance company, uh like software platform who their we our audiences are completely aligned. Um, and then I also have my own podcast, though it's not super regular, but um, it's amazing. It's I've I've told you about it before. I'm like, it's more like the binging podcast. It's like people just listen to a bunch of it and then they like, you know, schedule a discovery call with me is usually what happens. Um uh those are my top things, and I have really good email nurture going on. And um yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:14

Um everything you just said is 100% applicable to a hormone clinic or any practitioner, to be honest with you, lead magnets. You know, nobody just buys without knowing you, or at least knowing that you know what you're talking about. So there's some sort of a lead magnet that allows you to share your knowledge and your credibility. The second is you said partnerships. We promote that all the time. You know, a hormone clinic and a and a massage place partner together and they do educational information to both uh locations uh clients. So, you know, I think what the key is it's education, right? It's it's it's being willing to give away your knowledge so that people know you can be trusted and they want to engage further. Yeah, yeah, totally. Yeah. So tell us about this free gift.

SPEAKER_01 40:02

Oh, yeah. So we have uh kind of an outline of three. So what you know, ultimately what I'm teaching people to do is build systems and structures in their businesses as part of that remodel. And so we have a um a series of handouts that lay out three of our most powerful systems to completely transform your practice. So our lead generation and lead capture system, our red velvet rope that I was talking about as part of the sales process, and then one that I call speak your language, which is about collecting the language of your ideal clients when they first come to you so that you can use that in your marketing. So it's not like, what do I say? Oh, I love that. That is so cool. And where can they get it? Oh, yes, they can get it at JoannaSapir.com. So that's my name, Joanna J O A N N A Sapir is S-A-P-I-R slash, uh, you're gonna have to remind me what it is.

SPEAKER_00 40:53

Beyond hormones.

SPEAKER_01 40:54

Beyond hormone. Beyond hormones. I'm I'm really gross distinguished. Beyond hormones, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:00

Yeah, and I'll link that in in the show notes. Everybody can grab that. And I have to tell you, um, so what's once Joanne and I met, I signed up for her one of her master classes and I went through it. And guys, you want to work with her. Like, not only are you intelligent and clear in the way you communicate, you're so grounded. And you know, I I just felt very pulled in to your content and what you were saying. And I and it really was, I wasn't your audience. I was just peering, you know, in just to kind of get a feel for how you do what you do. And um, I was telling Joanna when we started that I totally would have bought her program. Unfortunately, it's not for me, but I think it's great. And I would, you know, if anyone's listening and you want to engage with Joanna, they can uh also schedule a call with you, correct?

SPEAKER_01 41:48

Yep. Yep. If you go to my website, there'll be a discovery call button there, as well as a whole explanation of of uh my main program. But I also work with people in other ways.

SPEAKER_00 42:00

Feel free to reach out. And that would be great. So, you know, we are both very, very committed to wellness practitioners out there, not suffering through trial and error. Don't spend years trying to figure this shit out. Just get the help you need. And that's why I wanted you on the podcast. I I'm not the right solution for everybody, right? So, but you need support. And so you are an option for that support.

SPEAKER_01 42:26

Yeah. Thanks for sharing that, Jody.

SPEAKER_00 42:28

Absolutely. Um, before you go, um, I do something on the podcast uh I stole from Diary of a CEO, which is my favorite podcast, where I have my past guest ask a question for my next guest, but they don't know who you are. So I have a question for you. If there's one thing you could tell yourself when you first started your career or business that you now know, what one thing would that be?

SPEAKER_01 42:59

This feels very personal, actually, to say this, but um, you don't have to be so tough.

SPEAKER_00 43:06

Can you say more about that?

SPEAKER_01 43:08

Uh I think at the age when I was first starting business and and just the stage of life I was in, and as a single mom, like holding it all together, just like you know, and running a business and a team, I think I really like had a big armor around me and really had to, you know what I mean, just be really tough. Like, um, and so I think, you know, I've softened up over the years and I'm like, oh, works fine, everything works fine.

SPEAKER_00 43:34

Yeah. No, that's really great. And I think too, the age that we're in right now with AI and a lot of influencers and people that are just surface level, like sharing what's really going on with you, like how I started our recording, sharing about my personal life, like really just sharing with people. You create connections that you can't if you're so tough. I love that. Thank you for being on today. Yeah, thank you for having me. Absolutely. All right. Well, um, as I said, I'm gonna put the links to Joanna's website, to your uh three systems gift, and to uh scheduling the discovery call all in the show notes so that you can get a hold of her easily. And thanks for being on the show. Thank you. Thank you for listening to Beyond Hormones, the business of wellness. I hope that you're walking away with fresh ideas and real strategies you can use to grow your practice with profit and purpose. If you enjoyed today's episode, be sure to follow the show so you never miss a conversation. And if something you heard today resonated with you, do me a favor, share this episode with a friend or a colleague. It's one of the best ways you can support the show, and it might be exactly what they need to hear right now. If you want even more tools and support, go ahead and head over to accelerated medical practices.com. Until next time, keep doing the work that matters. Your patients need you, and I am cheering you along every step of the way.