PHIT PD
PHIT PD hosted by Juan Cephas and Ashley "Smashley" Cummins reveals what it takes to be at your best physically and mentally for your duties as a police officer.
PHIT PD
Shot in the Face. Still in the Fight.
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Some stories aren’t just about survival—they’re about what you do after you should have died.
In this episode, I sit down with a sheriff’s deputy who was shot in the face with a shotgun from just 18 inches away… and lived.
But this isn’t just a story about an officer-involved shooting. It’s about preparation, pressure, and the kind of mindset you can’t fake when everything is on the line. Years ago, he was one of my recruits in the academy—pushed to his limits, forced to dig deeper than he thought possible. He didn’t start out as the strongest, but he earned everything, eventually becoming the honor graduate.
That foundation would be tested in a moment that changed everything.
After being critically wounded, while being rushed away in an ambulance, he heard over the radio that another officer had been shot. What he did next defines who he is—he made the ambulance stop, got out, and went back into the danger to help save his partner’s life. That decision ensured his partner survived a catastrophic injury that could have been fatal.
We talk about the tactical failures that led up to the shooting, the lessons officers need to hear, and the reality that training alone isn’t enough—you need heart, resilience, and the will to never quit.
But what makes this story different… is what came after.
Forgiveness. Faith. Purpose.
He shares how he found the strength to forgive the person who shot him, why he believes everything happens for a reason, and how that moment reshaped the way he sees life, service, and brotherhood.
This episode is about more than policing.
It’s about redemption, sacrifice, love, and the unbreakable mindset to keep going—no matter what.
🎯 Whether you're a first responder, military, or someone interested in becoming a law enforcement officer—this conversation will move you, challenge you, and inspire you.
👇 Drop a comment with your favorite takeaway, and remember to subscribe if you want more real conversations like this.
#podcast #resilient ##cops #policeofficer #motivation #lawenforcement #deputy #police #lawenforcementofficer #policechief #policewoman #gangs #prison #mexicanmafia
Contact Information:
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I felt like it was in a movie or a dream. And I look at the trees and I'm like, this is weird. Now at this point, James, you're still bleeding. Yeah. Call my mom. I was like, hey mom. She says, why are you calling me? And she goes, Yeah. Well, I got shot. She said, okay. I said, well, I love it very well. And uh she said, Where? And I said, You sitting down? And she said, Yeah, sitting in the head. One pellet went in here. And then I think three or four went in across my hairline here. It depends on the person that you're facing, the person you are, the training you have, the scenario that's in front of you. It depends. So that's one of the things that we do address in a complex way. It depends. We don't say, yeah, if he has a gun, you can shoot him. If he doesn't, you can't.
SPEAKER_02That's not that simple. Welcome everybody. My name is Juan Cefaz from Fit PD, and this is lineup with Fit PD. After almost 30 years in law enforcement, I retired as a sergeant, and I'm pretty familiar with just about all angles of law enforcement. Today, I want to bring the stories that people don't really hear about that have to do with law enforcement. This podcast is about the sacrifice that people make to be a peace officer, as well as talking about the human being behind that badge. I've also been an instructor at the police academy for almost 25 years. And I have never met a recruit that said that they wanted to become a police officer because they wanted to hurt people. What I have seen is that we have training that does not prepare you, prepare recruits for some of the chaos that we see out in the street. This podcast is about truth, it's about perspective, and it's about closing the curtain just a little bit. Today's guest is um someone who has always worked very really really hard. While going to um university, he held two or three jobs at any one time. He then became a deputy in 2010. He went to the academy, he went to the regional academy, um, the 84th Regional Academy to be specific. And there he worked, he continued to work really, really hard, where he earned the title of honor grad recruit in the academy. Top recruit. Um, he went on to work several different assignments um with the sheriff's department, including working with DEA. And in 2013, there was an incident, an incident that we're gonna be talking about today, where he was shot in the line of duty. I want you to please help me welcome James Steinmeier. James, thank you for being here. Good to see you again. Good to see you too, man. It's been a long time, but you look exactly the same. Do I?
SPEAKER_03Well you you put on like three inches on your arms, and uh several of those inches on my waist. So, but I appreciate you uh you you saying that. But uh yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, hey, you know what? Um you know what? Let's talk a little bit about you know, you get to the academy, right? You get to the academy, and you know, coming from college and working multiple jobs that are not really in law enforcement. Um what uh what what's what's your what's your feeling? How motivated are you? Uh what's what's happening?
SPEAKER_03I can tell you the academy for me was one of the greatest times of my life. And I know maybe some people would disagree and have different feelings about it. And I think what came what that came from was I I found it. Like, other than marrying my wife and having my kids, finding what you're here for and finding what you're meant to do, like there's there's peace in that. There was like, oh, this is it, this is it for me. So even the hard work, all the all the difficult days, all the ardest nines, which thank you. Uh you gave me many, uh, the second most in the entire academy. And it was all to me, it was just all part of getting to what I knew I was here to do. I mean, it really did feel that way. It still does. And I still think that this is the calling that I had in my life that that um, and so for me, it was I want to say easy, it's not easy, but it it I didn't have to find an exterior motivation for that. Like it was, it was like, no, I'm gonna do this. This is not a question in my mind. Like, I'm gonna get through this and I'm gonna I'm gonna keep moving. So that was for me, it was just it was just that internal, like, this is it for me.
SPEAKER_02You know, James, when I hear you speak, I I I couldn't disagree with you at all because finding purpose just got just it's beautiful. Just you stay on that path, right?
SPEAKER_03And it feels right. Yeah, and I had done some other jobs and and worked in commercial real estate after the uh the the college profession and and it just didn't feel like it. I just it was just pursuing money. And I had never served in the military, and I really did, I mean, it sounds cheesy, but I I really did want to do something more than me, and more than just pursuing money and and uh a career. I really want to do something meaningful. And I did a um a guy at the gym actually told me I look like I should be a cop. And he was one and said, come do a ride-along. And I did ride-along in Compton. And on that ride-along, I was like, This is it. I do this for free. Like, this is this is the greatest job in the world. And I've never looked back. That was it. So this was with LAPD? L-A-S-O.
SPEAKER_02S. SO, yes, so in Compton. Yeah. All right. Um what can you share with us like one call that particularly um made you feel a connection with the job?
SPEAKER_03Man, that's hard to narrow down. I mean, one of the greatest things about this job is we come to people in their worst days, you know, and we have an opportunity to really bring some light into their life. And so those are the the things, and there's there's so many of them. Like, I don't know that I can really break it down to just one. But just being there for people when they're struggling, when they're having a hard time, even the even the dopers, even the guys using drugs. I had one kid said he had nightmares about me because he didn't want to see me again because of how much I talked to him and how much I, you know, kind of poured into him and trying to wake him up and trying to get him, you know, to get clean. And, you know, when he told me he has nightmares about me, I was like, good, good, you know, like I if that's what it takes to be the monster in your story to get you clean, then then that's the role I'll play. But I mean, but I was also kind to him and respectful to him and treated him like a human being. And so, yeah, while I think that respect that he had for me was part of that that nightmare scenario that he was referring to. And um, I've just really liked that aspect of it. I don't look at this as a situation where, you know, I'm just superior coming in to dictate to others how bad their life is. It's really about the human condition and and being given an opportunity to to do good and to bring some light into the world. And I mean, I really, I really embrace that aspect of this job.
SPEAKER_02Now, James, let's go back a little bit uh back to the academy. What uh were some of the highlights in hindsight that helped you with some of those challenging days that you would unknowingly encounter?
SPEAKER_03Well, I don't know if you recall, but uh probably through the first six weeks of the academy, you were not a fan of mine. And every single lineup it seemed, I got I got called out. And I you used to say, recruit, recruit. I was like, please don't beat me. It's me every time. And now I look back fondly on that kind of stuff, just so that if we don't get there in the story, that changed later on. I think you really, I think you put me through the paces. And um maybe it's my estimation. I think I I I I walked through that and you said, okay, you know, you're I'm gonna treat you, you know, and when you actually worked with me to to you were an integral part in allowing me to become the honor graduate. We would meet and talk one-on-one. And so it started out. I think, I think I have learned in my life that um my initial um perceptions of me are often not what I think they are or what people should think. But it's true, and and I think I have had to deal with that, that I'm perceived a certain way and that I have to prove myself that I'm not, and and that word is cocky. And um, and I I I that is people's perception, and they're entitled to it. But like that's something that I've had to kind of sort of work through, and that's actually gonna come into this story that I'm gonna tell about the incident. Um, but the academy, I I man, I love doing the scenarios. You guys get to used to get annoyed with me because every scenario I'd raise my hand. Um, I just every part of it, I mean my friends that I have to this day, it was just great. I just um I don't want to do it again, but uh it was it was that time in my life, the totality of everything coming to finding what I'm you know here to do that that brought that real peaceful feeling and of being there and doing what I was doing.
SPEAKER_02It's uh it's great to uh get that reinforcement when you make a decision that's difficult, like joining a police academy, and then finding yourself loving it.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Yeah. And it was it just fed one thing after another. I've like it, I never, I never had a second thought, you know, even from that day with the ride-along. I I never, I never had a side. I'm like, this is it. Like for the things that I think God has given me, the gifts apply almost perfectly to this job and not a lot of others, you know. And that to me it was like this is this is this is the Hail Mary, this is all or nothing, this is what I'm gonna do. Now, you graduate. I did.
SPEAKER_02And you're the honor grad. I was. What uh what happens next?
SPEAKER_03Well, being the honergrad, and and I'll just just put it out there, I was I was better looking. You said I looked the same before before we started. No, I I was younger, handsomer. It's not even a word. And so coming out of the academy, I really did not want that to be known about me that I was an undergrad. I did not want this, this, this constant perception of me being cocky. And the first day I walked into Antonita Station as patrol, the lieutenant said, Hey, you're Steinmeier, you're the undergraduate. And I was like, Yes, sir. He goes, Don't call me sir. I'm like, ha ha, I don't know what to do, what do I do with my hands? Um, but it was uh it was something that I didn't really um given that my I was never trying to really upsell myself. I was trying to like, please don't think I'm that way. I'm not here to to be better than I just want to be a part of the team. Right. And and so on one hand I'm proud of it. I was proud that my parents got to see me do that um and get the honor graduate. And that's kind of where that that ended was that was like a moment in time I was proud about, but I really didn't want that perception of me to carry on into the job.
SPEAKER_02Well, you know, with with that, um I I get it. You know what? Uh it's a moment in time, but it it also speaks to your character because a hardworking person, right? Um always seeking to be better every single day. And that's what I saw in you. And so, you know, of course I was gonna work with you to see how far we can push you. Um the journey, interesting journey. Yeah. But um, you know, let's uh fast forward a little bit to uh 2013. So you're working in patrol and you're working in incentives, right? Yeah. Um what what uh what's the nature of the radio call that you get?
SPEAKER_03So if you won't mind, I'm gonna back up because part of what we talked about beforehand about training. I think there's some things I want to bring into the story first. So in in November of 2012, I was involved in an incident that ended up in a major use of force, and I broke my hand. Um I was on light duty for a while. Was that the one with uh Bernardo something?
SPEAKER_02No, no, a different one. That's a different one. You've been Googling. All right.
SPEAKER_03Uh no, that was much after. Okay. Um, but no, this was in not, it's not gonna be anywhere. It was okay because it was sort of on its own thing. But I broke my hand, and so I was on light duty for a period of time, and during that time I really was trying to change the side of the week I was on. I don't know if the listeners understand that, but I was working uh Sunday through Tuesday. I wanted to work the Wednesday through Saturday, uh, the other side of the week. Um, part of the reason for that is I wanted to be able to attend church. I'm a Christian and I wanted I working every Sunday was very difficult, and I really wanted to be able to attend church. And so I petitioned with the uh administrative sergeant most like every day, please can I switch sides? And I when I came off of light duty in January, uh I was on that side of the week. That the reason I say that is because this team I was on, though I had a year and some change on uh patrol, I would have been on this team for about three weeks, um, maybe maybe a month. Okay. And so I was new um to the team. I didn't know a lot of the people, and like I kind of established, I came with a preconceived reputation of who I was. And um, so I was really trying to establish who I was gonna be to them. I know that I desire to be a good partner. I want to be, you know, I like people, I like uh making friends with my coworkers. Um, but I wanted them to see that I was a hard worker and that I was gonna be a good member of the team. So that's kind of what was was happening this particular day. Um, it was somebody else's radio call, and it was uh, I think it was uh it came out as like a stolen vehicle.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_03I didn't pay much attention to it because it wasn't mine. Um, and I had other calls I was running throughout the day. And but over time it just kept going. It just there was radio traffic and this and that, and and it just it was really going on a long time. So I I noticed that, but I'm running calls and then I get a call of a uh of a motorcycle, electric motorcycle is charging, and now it's on fire. So code three, go over there, and I use my handy dandy uh fire extinguisher and I put it out. And uh turns out I found out later FD hates when you do that. Um they want to put out their own fire. I didn't know that. I just thought I was being helpful, you know, like hey, I'm putting out fires. So, but in that process, I end up breathing this toxic gases from this fire. And the the FD finally shows up, and and then a medic shows up with an ambulance. A guy comes out, I know him. He's uh one of the medics, and he's just like, Steinmeier, what are you doing? I was like, What do you mean? He's like, Why is it always you? Every time I go to these calls, it's always you. I was like, I don't know, dude. I just like my job. And he's like, You're you're crazy. I think he even said, Do you have a death wish? And I was like, No, because I was hacking pretty good at this point. I was like, No, I just love my job, and I really but he wasn't wrong. Every if there was a hot call, like I was trying to get there first every single time. But I really didn't see myself as that way. I didn't see myself as like a cowboy going out and just doing dangerous stuff for no reason. I was I just liked it. I just like doing my job. Yeah. So after that, I I clear and I I keep hearing this call going on. And I text my roommate at the time, who was a a deputy in the same station. I said, Hey, this address seems familiar, and this name and the kid's name. Uh can we say names here?
SPEAKER_02Just say the first name.
SPEAKER_03Uh his name's Evan, the the suspect. Okay. And he texts back, he says, if you go over there, you're gonna have to shoot him. And I was like, Okay, this is a story that he had told me before that was pretty violent. Okay. And so I'm like, okay, I'm right. This is what's going on, and I don't know if they know that. So I radioed for this batch to check to see call history. If there'd been they're gonna find it, they're gonna tell them, and I don't have to say anything. Right. The reason for that I'm even mentioning it that way is because I didn't I got in trouble for like talking the radio too much. And when I say in trouble, ribbing, just teasing, okay, you write a novel on the radio. And I was trying again, three weeks on a new team, not to be that guy, you know what I mean? And this is this is important as far as the training aspect of um being young, being new, and and sort of the perception that you're trying to create, that you're maybe inadvertently creating without even realizing. So I was really trying to stay off the radio, and so they didn't find anything. They said no call history. And I'm like, what okay? Wow. So I didn't want to get on the radio, say, sorry, you're wrong. This guy's violent and he's going to right. So I texted that message to the primary deputy. I just texted him. Um, found out later he didn't check his phone. But again, this insecurity of of not wanting to be the rookie going, hey guys, you know what you're doing. This guy's got a history. It was what prevented me from really stepping into that and saying, hey, I know some information here. And it was a mistake. It was it was something I should have made myself comfortable doing and and just done it um in hindsight. Right.
SPEAKER_02So communicating.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, and not wanting to be perceived as um know it all. Yeah, and going against like not policy, but against the typical the way people do things. What is too much on the radio? That's for the team to decide, right? Right. That's for the culture to decide on. And I would say some words that they'd be like, we don't use those words here. Well, I see them on TV, so I know cops use them, you know. And so there's this thing where you're really, and I'm not saying it's bad, I'm just saying that you're really sort of forced into the the culture of the team that you're on. You gotta comply, you gotta, yeah, you can't be outside the norms of the culture. And there's there's goods and bads about that. Sometimes you do need to, and that's what again comes into this story, as far as being able to be comfortable, being uncomfortable with with maybe going against what is always been done that way. Um, and that that was why I didn't that's why I didn't put it over the air. Is I was like, hey, I don't want to be perceived that way. I mean, those are the thoughts that are going through my head. There should not have been the thoughts going through my head, right? Right, they had called for more units, I was on my way. I should be thinking, you know, what preparing for what I'm gonna find. Instead, I'm thinking, I don't want them to think I talk on the radio too much, I don't want to be a know-it-all, I don't want to do anything that they don't think is cool or good. And um, but that's the reality of being young.
SPEAKER_02And thank you for sharing that because you know that's very important for um new deputies, new officers to know because it's a conversation we don't have, but it's a conversation that new people need to have.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it was one of the they don't teach, you know, you don't get to learn it necessarily as is like pet tactics in the academy. No, that the really one of the most difficult aspects of this job is the social interaction with your partners and command and dealing with um expectations and norms that you're expected to comply with. And that's not really something you can really prepare for because it's different every station, every team.
SPEAKER_02Every team, every station has different norms, and you gotta quickly understand what they are and fall in.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, and that's a you know, that's a part of of what I was trying to establish as a new guy on the team. What are they? And how can I quickly show them I want to be a part of that? I want to not be the outlier that comes in saying, Hey, hey, the rookie's about to tell you how things are done. You know, that's just now you arrive on the scene, and what happens then? So I arrive on the scene, there's a good number of deputies there, and they were gonna go in the house. Um, they didn't know if he was there. It turns out it was a son and a mother, and the son had taken the mother's car, and all they knew is that the car is now back, but don't know where he is. Okay. So they think he's in the house, but they don't really know. So they're gonna go inside the house and check for him.
SPEAKER_02And what was the nature of the complaint?
SPEAKER_03This is this is uh sketchy because uh what from my understanding at the time we were there was a stolen vehicle. I found out later that it was more closely a violation of a restraining order. Okay. This kid had done this many times, and she would the mother would call and report it as a stolen vehicle, and she was eventually told that's not what this is. You're giving him permission and then removing permission. You can't then say, you know, because it's intent to permanently deprive is his stolen vehicle. And they told her stop. So she went and got a restraining order and put in there he can't touch the car. Okay. And now she can it give permission and take permission away legally, and that's what happened. So she called and it it and uh I didn't know this at the time, by the way. I just thought it was a stolen vehicle. Did think it was odd we were at the house of the stolen vehicle investigating, but they were going inside and they requested uh people to go on the perimeter, and I went on a rear perimeter with another another deputy.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_03Now you're in the perimeter, and what do you see? What what's what's happening? I'm in the backyard. I can hear things going on in the house. They're set searching rooms. And I I said to the other deputy back there, uh female deputy who's still in an apartment. She's a plays a big role in this story. I said to her that I'm not living my life to live a long, happy life right now. And as I'm hacking along from that previous call. Sure. And I had just come off from light duty with breaking my hand, some other high risk incidents had been happening, and I'm just like, I'm not, I'm not gonna be alive much longer. And I really had that was the words. That came out of my mouth that 10 minutes later would have quite an implication. Um, but eventually they cleared the house and what did she say to you when you made that comment? She just laughed. She just laughed. Okay. All right. It really wasn't it, really, wasn't a comment meant for a response. It was just sort of just a statement. I don't even know why I said it, other than that's what I thought, you know? Sure. I'm I'm just coughing. So they cleared the house and then they said, okay, the house is clear and the perimeter you guys can come in. And so we come in, and um there was the attic tile, uh, the attic cover was missing. I didn't know that it was missing when they went in there. I kind of thought that somebody had kind of pushed it back as to say, like, hey, we need to check the attic. But I didn't think a whole lot of it. And then I'm standing in a bedroom, and a senior deputy who I respect and love greatly, um, and he was a hero on this thing. He went down to one knee and he put his hands out across like this, and he went like this. He said, Steiny, come here. And I So he interlaced his fingers. Yeah, he's gonna boost me. And it was okay what he was saying. Now, mind you, I'm a year on, and this probably 50, 60 years of experience in this room. I mean, there's some senior deputies in here.
SPEAKER_02So you're the junior person.
SPEAKER_03Oh, that's why I'm the one getting called, right? Okay, and um he says, Hey, come here, and I said, No. Again, going back to this perception thing, like it was it's difficult to say no at all. Sure. When you're new. And I knew this was so bad that I said no. And he said, Steiny, come here. And I believe I said no again. And a third time he kind of gave me that look like your mom does when you're misbehaving in the grocery store, you know, like over here. And I said, Okay. And I walked over, I put my boot in his in his hands and was regretting it the entire time.
SPEAKER_02Uh let me pause just for a second. Um, what had you learned based on policies and procedures or academy training or anything tactical that was contradictory to what you were experiencing in that moment? Don't put your head in an attic. Okay. And this was um in the academy?
SPEAKER_03Yes, I it was it it in. I don't know if you know you were an instructor, but we had classes. I think verbatim at some point in the academy because it was so strong that I was like, I shouldn't be doing this. Like, this is not what I should be doing. Well, and you should remember this because you're the honor grad. You know, even an honor grad. Um no, it it I knew it. I knew it. Um, I was like this, I said no twice. And again, now they're all looking at me, and 99 times out of a hundred, you're gonna be fine. You violate policy, you're not policy, if you violate your the tactics, you violate sort of what the academy taught you how to do, and you're gonna be fine. You're not gonna get shot. You're not gonna have a severe, you know, catastrophic outcome for violating that. Oh, I got away with it, and then next thing you know, you're doing it over and over again. Um, and that's what I was sort of faced with is this idea that it's probably gonna be okay, and I will have to deal with the fallout from being the guy that's not a team player. So you had to balance those two. In that moment, I had that thought. I I had that like if I keep saying no and I don't do it, first of all, somebody's gonna do it. Right, somebody's gonna do it, and then it's gonna be like, well, Steine, the ju the junior guy, the rookie, he's just not a team player. And I was I I had that real strong debate in myself in that moment, and I relented. I said, Okay, you know, let's let's do this. And I I I don't the second my head breached the attic, I was like, I do not want to be here. So you you breach the attic, and what do you see? Dark. It was uh this is like I want to say about three in the afternoon. Okay, and so my eyes were had to adjust, yeah, and I immediately just just was like there wasn't an audible ringing in my ears, but just this sense of like, what are you doing? Okay, this is not a good place to be. And so the way I had gone up facing this way, I scanned, and then in the far end of the attic, I saw Evan, the the the eventual suspect. Um, he was in between like the eaves of the attic, we know where the installation is. He was trying to like lay down in between now. Prior to this, he had never acknowledged that he was there. So we were yelling up, Evan, come out, Evan, and he it never acknowledged, he never responded. And so I was up there as an exploratory mission to see if he's up there.
SPEAKER_02Now, did you have a canine there? Uh oh, it's coming. Okay, it's coming.
SPEAKER_03All right, it's coming. So I see him and I said, Evan, I see you. You need to come down. And at that point, he realizes he's been seen and he just starts a tirade of uh profanity and um anger and and different things towards us.
SPEAKER_02Noncompliance.
SPEAKER_03Noncompliance, not coming down. And not today. Yeah, yeah, no. Okay. In fact, he was actually began calling for another deputy that he wanted there uh to hurt him, who had peacefully resolved the conflict earlier, but he felt slighted by that deputy that he'd been manipulated. And so he's angry at this one particular deputy that day. No, a prior incident. Prior incident. I believe the incident that I was warned about from my roommate. Got it. He had talked him out of this situation and and then ended up, I think he was 5150 on that date, and he was bad. So he was specifically asking for one deputy, and he was just berating the rest of us.
SPEAKER_02Okay. So noncompliance. Yeah, he doesn't come downstairs, and you do you come down back down.
SPEAKER_03As soon as I saw him and said that, I said, Bill, let me down. Give me down. I said, drop me. And I I dropped him. And um at that point, some dialogue starts, and then um they said, Well, let's put a canine up there. And they'd asked the mom if he had access to firearms. She said no. Um, and he had no history of firearms. And so they moved a table underneath the opening to allow the canine officer to put the dog into the attic. And because of that, I went into a back room on the other side of the table. The front door was over here, the table, and then a back room, and I shut the door because the canine that was coming in, it was me. Okay, he had titanium teeth, and uh, I probably look as good a meal as anyone else. So I'm like, I don't want to be in front of this thing. We shut the door, right? And so we could just kind of hear, and um, I guess what I found out later is the dog kind of did that I don't want to take a bath thing. We're like not going up, not going up, not doing it. And then again, things I found out later. He the suspect said, If you put your dog up here, I'm gonna stab him. And the candidate said, You have a knife? And he said, Yes, and I'm gonna stab your dog. And so 1022, never mind the the canine. We're not gonna use the canine right now. All right. Information I didn't have, but nevertheless, it's uh it's part of the story.
SPEAKER_02Right. Critical information. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Um, there could be some question as to why I didn't have it, as far as like, well, should I have heard it myself? And I'm not blaming anyone for it. Sure, it's just the fog of how these things happen. I mean, you've been to hundreds, thousands of calls, not everything is conveyed at at one time.
SPEAKER_02Correct. As much as we would like to convey, we don't always convey that's one of the biggest problems that we have is communication, lack of communication.
SPEAKER_03And I had caused that same error earlier in the story where I was uh not communicating something that somebody else probably really wanted to know. So dog says, no go. What's the next step? The next step is the fun part. Um, is there's a table underneath uh that no longer requires somebody to boost you up, but you could stand on it. And so we decided to put chemical agents into the attic. And who puts them in there? Who deploys them? Uh not me at first. Uh several other deputies who happen to be a little bit shorter than me. Um the first bit was uh pepper ball. And the deputy was aiming in, and and I where they had heard him or perceived him to be in the attic, these pepper balls are coming nowhere near him. They're basically hitting the eaves and just dropping. Okay. It's because the angle that he has to shoot it at and they shoot too too quickly, they're not arcing over to where he is, they're just hitting off the roof. And then another deputy, also not quite as tall as me, not that I'm a tower, but uh I'm uh taller than an attic. Um he decides to do it and he gets his pepper spray, and the same thing, it's hitting the eaves and dripping down. Okay, and and from where we're perceiving him, it's not getting on him.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_03And this is the part where I'm like, I got a great idea. I'm tall enough. I can I could probably see him and spray it directly at him. So this was your idea. This is my idea. Okay. Now I'll I'll it comes in later as to or I'll tell it now later on, and I I I I I felt this way after the fact, but I I would never have said it because I'm just gonna own my own mistakes. But the guy who lifted me up later apologized to me and he says, I feel bad. I said, For what? He says, I feel like when I lifted you up the first time, I gave permission to do this again. And he was correct. I mean, this became standard operating procedure of this incident. Right. But I had said no twice, and now I did it voluntarily because I got away with it the first time. Sure. And so it's not his fault. It's not, you know, I made my decisions and I I own them and would have, to my grave, never said anything like that. Like, this is your fault. You did this by letting me think it was okay. I would never, but he said he felt guilty that that is what has happened. And of course, like he's a friend of mine. I love him. Um, he's a great guy. And and I I said, that that's true. I said, but that's not your fault. Like you're, you know, I'm not mad at you. Right. You know, you're we're my friend, and and we bug in, and you know, it was a good, it was a good moment. Um, but yeah, that kind of became it had been spoken into the standard operating procedure of what we were doing. And so, you know, now we're putting our heads in attics, and that's that's what we're doing here. And so that's what I did. I stood up on the table uh intending to to pepper spray him.
SPEAKER_02So now you're gonna pepper spray, and as you stick your head through, what do you see?
SPEAKER_03Well, as I stick my head through, I had this overwhelming sense of he's to my right. Because now where they're telling me he is is directly in front, so towards the doorway. Okay. Where I had first seen him was over to my right.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_03And so they're telling me he's over there, but I had this like, but it's dark, my eyes aren't adjusted yet. Okay, but I I know I gotta look the direction I think he is, but I just have this sense that he's over here. Now it ends up not really being relevant because he wasn't, but that's what was going through my head. Just like, what, like there's like this void over here that's like a spider sense, like, dude, watch out. You're you shouldn't, again, you shouldn't be here. Um, and as I looked up, there's a box. There's a box of what would turn out to be Christmas ornaments. Okay. And uh I say I was saved twice by the birth birth of Christ because I'm a Christian, and this was a box that uh would eventually prevent him from blowing my head off. But they said, you know, I can hear him back here, and so I look, and there's a box right there. And I go to move the box. I think I had to readjust the second time I go. Um I how much of your body is inside at this point? This much of my head.
SPEAKER_02Oh, okay. But you can still reach and move a ball.
SPEAKER_03And uh it felt like I got hit with a sledgehammer. It just felt like somebody took a sledgehammer, hit me in the head. And um again, because it was this side of my face, I knew it. I knew there was somebody over here. It wasn't, it was directly in front. Okay, but um, it just felt like I got hit with a hammer. My next memory is I'm standing on the table with blood dripping on the table, and I just had this like thought, I said, Well, that's not good. And that's that's the words that went through my head. Well, that's not good. I kind of had a sense of if you get shot in the head, you die right away. Yeah, and I'm not dead. Um, so I kind of had some comfort level, I guess, with that, but I I didn't know, you know, I kind of thought, like, well, this is what's gonna happen here. So I get off the table, and it's it's of note to say that that no one really knew I had been shot. When he shot through the box, a bunch of paper came pouring out of the attic. Um, and by the way, I found out later his muzzle was against that box. The muzzle blast of the shotgun blew the entire back of that that box open. And so he was much closer than had been believed. It was believed he was farther back in the attic. He was right up against right there. Yeah, he was right there. Had it had that box not been there, the second my head popped up, he would have probably probably taken me out. And so I think what happened with that is a week prior, this team had responded to a young man who who had like what they call a Mexican hand grenade, which is a like a firecracker with no wick, and he had put the match directly in it and exploded in his face. Okay. So he had like almost uh like bird shot looking stuff all over his face. And I the only thing I can think of is that again, there's 70 plus years of experience here, and not one person, including myself, thought I had just been shot with a shotgun. Um, we didn't really know what had happened, and I think it actually was put out on the radio. We think he's throwing a firecracker, and I think that was as a result of the attic with the insulation. Um there was it was a sematomic shotgun, so there's no racking. Um, and then the paper coming down out of the attic. Um, that's the only thing I can I can think. And again, I don't blame anybody for not knowing because I didn't know. Um, but they kind of usher me out of the house, put me outside. At this point, they see the blood. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I'm bleeding. All right. And so I go outside, I'm I'm on, I'm on the balcony or on the porch by myself. I remember looking at the trees, and it just felt completely surreal. It just I felt like it was in a movie or a dream. And I look at the trees and I'm like, this is weird. And then right then the canine deputy runs up to me. He's like, Stiny, what are you doing out by by yourself? Like, I think he was mad that they left you. Yeah, yeah. And I said, I don't know. And he goes, get over here. And I said, I said, Bill, am I gonna die? And he goes, No. He goes, You're gonna be fine. And he says, What's your name? And I said, My name's James. And he said, How old are you? I said, I'm 31. I'm sorry, I said, I'm 29. And I went, No, I'm not, I'm 31. And it was in that moment, it was like it all just I was boom, back. I was there. And it was, I go, I'm okay. I said, I'm fine. And I had it was strange, complete uh peace, calm, no fear, nothing. I I don't know that there's uh adrenaline, what it does, and all these things. I just remember being completely calm. I was like, no, I'm not gonna die, you know, and I just had this real calm, peaceful sense about oh, okay, well, this is this is what happens, you know. You go through stuff like this and let's let's move forward.
SPEAKER_02Now, is there a supervisor on scene? Yeah. The entire time? Yeah. Okay. And have you had any interaction with the supervisor? Prior to this? Um, at at what point did you have interaction with the supervisor?
SPEAKER_03My first rem He's a good guy. And um, but there was this was a chaotic scene. My first remembrance of interaction is him being yelled at by another deputy that this was $11.99. Um, but this is after we're I'm jumping a little ahead. But I don't remember because I wasn't primary. And so my first interaction was much later, and I and I'll as I move through the story, I'll tell you what part that comes up. Okay. So, anyways, they give me a towel, wipe my face, and look at it, okay, bleeding. And there's an ambulance. I don't know if they were there already, but seemed like they were there quickly.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_03And so I get in the ambulance, and we're driving away, we get down the street, and I hear some more, what I think maybe firecrackers going off, but again, I'm still alive. A good indicator I wasn't shot. That's what I thought. And then I hear uh deputy down uh put out over the radio. And my first thought was relax, I'm okay. You know, like I'm fine, like it's a little traumatic. Um and then as there was more in uh traffic talking about where the deputy who was down was, I realized that's not me, that there's another deputy that's been down. And I I yelled for them to stop. And I said, I have to go. And they said, I I I I had this thought they'd be like, No, you gotta stay. You gotta stay in here, man. You're hurt, you know? And they were like, Okay. And I was like, Well, let me out. And I tried to open the doors, I couldn't open them. And and I think they were they said something like they have to be open from the outside. And I said, Open the freaking doors, dude. And I started kicking the doors of the ambulance, like, open them. And then so the guy came around, opened the doors, and um I they open, I see people in the street. Like, we're probably 150 yards up the street now. Okay, and I'm not a fast runner, you remember from the academy, um, but I was that day, and I don't remember my feet touching the ground. I was just I'm beelining it, like I'm gonna get involved in this, you know, I'm gonna do what I need to do, you know, and help help my partners that are obviously somebody's really hurt. Right. So that's what I did. I ran I ran down there. Now, someone else had been um shot.
SPEAKER_02Yes. Are we now having to conduct an officer rescue or what's happening?
SPEAKER_03So I ran down and and there was radio traffic, and I'm trying to kind of coordinate where they're talking about as I'm running, and I just kept scanning until one house to the north of the subject house, I see deputies in a walkway uh between the house and a retaining wall, kind of where people would keep their trash cans. Um and it's really narrow because it's a retaining wall and then the house, and it's just enough room for a person to walk. And um, they're on the ground, and I see two deputies on top of another deputy. And as I get up there, I see there's just a pool of blood uh all around the deputy, and the two deputies on top are putting pressure on um on the wound to try and stop the bleeding, and there's a lot of blood. And somebody said, Hey, stay down. He's shooting from right there, and there's like a gable vent in the house next door where we were previously in, that they said that's where he's shooting out of. So we're kind of the way the wall and the fence is like we have some concealment, maybe a little bit of cover if you stay below the wall. Um, but we're still kind of in a danger zone.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03So the narrow nature of that walkway, I I was a little bit frustrated. I'm like, I can't help him. Like, I can't get to him. The canine deputy, who's an integral part of this whole this whole scene, he's everywhere in this story. He's the third person, right? There's two on top. And for some reason, they took his gun off of him, the the the down deputy. Okay, and they sort of like you know, handed it down the line. And I'm the last person in line. The can turns to me and he's like, Steiny, what are you doing here? Like he put me in the ambulance, right? And he says, You gotta go. He's like, You gotta leave. I said, No, I don't. I said, I'm not going anywhere. And I had two guns. I said, and what I should have said is, I'm gonna go end the threat. Um, but I said, I'm gonna go kill him. And that's that's where we were. Um, I mean, this guy just shot my friend, he's shooting at us, ending the threat of a guy with a gun, oftentimes gonna result in somebody dying. And and and I wasn't thinking in technical terms at that point. I was thinking what I had to go do, and uh, that's where this was gonna go. So I had I kind of had this thought like this is stupid. This is this isn't this doesn't work as good as as in the movies, yeah, yeah. But I had him, and I'm what else am I supposed to do with it? So I'm walking up to the front of the house with two guns, like I'm some sort of cowboy or something. And and then there was radio traffic that he had come out of the house and was running around. Okay, and so that's and in fact, I think it happened before I said, I'm gonna go find him. And so I went around the front of the house, the door was open, and he was still in the attic, shooting rounds down through the tiles of like if we were still in the hallway, he was shooting down at the floor. And at that point, I realized, okay, he's not running around. I'm not gonna be able to confront him. So I'm gonna go back and help with um Colin, who was the deputy who was down, and I'm gonna go back and help. So I went back and uh at that point, um, they had applied a tourniquet, uh, the canine deputy, and they got shot in the leg. Huh? He got shot in the leg. He got shot through the patella with uh double op buck. All all the the the the buck shot that was in there went through his patella and severed his formoral artery. And so he was uh he was in a bad shape. Um at that point they were buddy carrying him out to the street. The ambulance that I had been in came down and they exchanged, exchanged uh patients, and which is it's it's good because eventually I called for one and they said no. They said we're not, it's a hot scene, he's shooting, we're not coming in. And so, God forbid that had happened to to him because he was in grave situation. In fact, by the time they put him on Gurney, he was pale white and was shivering and was telling Bill, the canine deputy, he says, I'm cold. I was like, This is not good. This is not good at all. So he's in shock. Yeah, he's getting there if he's not already there. And I remember the uh medics, they had a backboard that had been left back, and the medic kind of didn't know what he was going back for it. Then he's like, I shouldn't, or I gotta get it. And I said, Leave it, get in and go. And so they left the backboard on the ground and they they took him off to the hospital.
SPEAKER_02Now you you stay there with everybody else, guys still shooting. Yeah. Um, how do we overcome this lethal threat?
SPEAKER_03Well, at this point, this is where I can go back to that story. Once a deputy was down, and there's other people with memories, maybe say the order it happened might be different. But from my memory, at that point, once it was like clearly he's shooting at us, there's no more question mark. This is this is gunshot. And uh another deputy's yelling at the sergeant, you need to call code 11. Code 11, this which is a SWAT SWAT call. We have a barricaded suspect, and everybody needs to move back, take perimeter positions, and just lock lock down the scene. And that's that's what happened next. So when that happened, I I took his gun, Conlin's gun, back to uh my vehicle and I holstered my sidearm and I I grabbed my AR-15 and I set up on the hood or the uh roof of my vehicle across the street, I had a direct line of sight to that gable vent that he was suspected of uh shooting, shooting out of. Now, at this point, James, you're still bleeding. Yeah, it's not that big a deal, but I was. Yeah, but it wasn't, I don't think I looked like Scarface or anything. You know, like I think I think it was I had so what ended up happening, I tell people I used to be much better looking before they're getting shot in the face. One uh pellet went in here, and then I think three or four went in across my hairline here. Um the miracle of all this, uh, he had from what I was told, something like 65 rounds in the attic with him when when this eventually concludes. One of them was bird shot. Wow. And that's the one that's the one he used. And it makes it even more strange when you know that shotguns are, you know, last in, first out, right? Yeah. Why'd he put that one in last? You know, why was that the last? Like, if at least it would make sense to me if it's like, let's say this one's red and the rest are black. He's like, Oh, this is a red one. Like, I'm gonna put that one in first. I don't know. I don't know. I've never got a chance to ask him. But he as it was, I was so close that the grouping of the pellets impacted the crossbeam behind my head still really tight. Tight. What probably happened is a few peeled away from that grouping as it traveled through the box, and then that's what hit me because the grouping probably kind of went right here, and then one went in here, and then three, three went in here.
SPEAKER_02You're really fortunate because center mass was just off to the right of you.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02And I mean, you know, you think about possible injuries to your eye that could be more severe.
SPEAKER_03Half inch down, yeah, you know, even a pellet to the eye, and I'm I'm retired. You lose an eye. I'm retired, you know. Yeah. Um I don't know, a year and some change into my career that I again felt this is it, and I would have been done. Six inches to your neck center mouse.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. This comes to an end. This incident. Yeah. And is he taken into custody? No. So he chose to continue to be a threat.
SPEAKER_03He chose to end the threat himself, unfortunately.
SPEAKER_02So he decided he was uh suicidal that day. Yeah. Suicidal, homicidal. Um unfortunately, we deal with a lot of people that are hurting and they take it out on police. Yeah. Um, as you very well know. Um now, James, you know, as I hear your story, you know, is the kind of story that uh new police officers, especially in the academy still, they need to hear. Because there's so many different lessons. Um what are the biggest takeaways for you that you could share with uh our listeners that are maybe in the academy, maybe thinking of joining the academy, or maybe waiting to join an academy? Yeah.
SPEAKER_03I think that the the thing that really struck me and something that I always wanted to sort of convey was that I think it's often oversimplified to say, Oh, you should just not put your head in an attic. Like, of course that's correct, right? But it's not nothing to say no. It's consequential, especially when, like I said, 99 times out of 100, you're gonna be fine. You want to say no 99 times? You want to be that guy that says no 99 times for that one time that you're gonna get shot in the head? Well, I didn't know it would ever get shot in the head. Maybe it's a thousand times. And I'm just saying no to everything because I'm like, I know better than you, and the culture here is wrong. And I'm here to tell you that, right? As the rookie, I'm here to tell you guys are violating everything Officer Cephas told us to do in the academy. And you guys, he would be disappointed in you. You guys know what you're doing. I'm smart. I was the undergraduate, don't you know that? And it's but it's not it's not nothing to have to deal with the consequences of of doing what you know to be right. And this isn't a moral situation. If it's a moral situation, I say no a thousand times. Right. This is a tactical situation. And, you know, I I I knew this was a bad tactical decision. That if I held firm on that decision, there would be consequences for for being that guy who doesn't isn't part of the team, you know, isn't isn't doing isn't doing his part as as a teammate. Again, trying to establish being new here. And that's the first thing they know about me is I'm just, you know, let somebody else do it. You know, somebody else who's uh got more time on than me should pick up the slack that I'm generating. And it's it's it's not easy. And it's also not black and white. It's not is so simple to just say, well, you just tell people no. And I think that does a disservice because when you're in that situation, um, you could be really ruining your reputation as as an officer. And and uh, but there are times when it may need to come to that if if need be. If it's so egregiously wrong and so egregiously unsafe, we need to figure out ways that somebody can convey that, articulate that, that, hey, I guys, listen, I'm I'm not wanting to be going against what you guys are saying, but please look at this. This is not safe, you know? And then and then being able to sort of smooth that over later. It's it's again, it's it's it's something that I've had to deal with multiple times in my career, where I'm making a decision and I got to go to that person later and say, hey, let's talk. You know, right? This is the reasons why. I didn't have time to explain this to you then, but let's talk about why I did what I did or didn't do. Um, and to try and re-establish that. It I don't just dismiss it, like think what you want to think, you know. Fine. You don't think I'm a good partner? I don't care what you think. I it's not how I it's not how I roll, and it's not how I think it should be done. I think you should be concerned with, you know, being a good partner and being perceived as a good partner, not just in your own mind, not just well, I'm a good partner, and nobody else thinks so, but I'm comfortable with that. No, that's that's too simplistic, and and we do need to consider that, you know, it matters, you know, the social aspect of this job, and that's 99% of it.
SPEAKER_02Well, James, that social aspect that you're talking about, you know, this peer pressure is a real thing in law enforcement anywhere. Yeah. In any social groups. Uh, but in law enforcement, it's a big thing. Now, failure to comply in law enforcement can have some serious consequences. And for uh listeners, viewers that may not know, um, the consequences include bullying.
SPEAKER_03Probably the primary one. Yes. Well, I mean, that's not used that word because it's such a lightning word. Um, but it that's that's ostensibly what it is.
SPEAKER_02Uh well, I mean, you know, we keep it sim simplistic.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, uh, I'm not getting swirlies, but you might have them move their tray when you come and sit, you know, when you're yeah, like if we were in high school, right?
SPEAKER_02People might call you names. People will talk behind your back. Right. You're now the guy that can't be trusted. Yeah. The guy that's not worth being wearing the badge, the guy that um should be transferred out, should be demoted. You should just quit. I mean, I mean, those are rolling out of my tongue, but it's because I've heard that.
SPEAKER_01What's going on? We do should we have another one where we talk about this?
SPEAKER_03No, a hundred percent right. Yeah. And I I those are things that, you know, I though I was new to the station and new to this team, I'd already dealt with that. I had been in the jails, and being a law enforcement in the jails has its own complications. And a sergeant I had, she was a very nice lady, Bursa basically spelled that out to me, like, hey, this is this is this is the tough part of this is navigating your partners, navigating this dynamic of you know being enough of who you are, but also a part of a unit, part of a team that, you know, that you're respected and that uh and liked, preferably, you know, respected, preferably both. But that that you you your perception when people think of you is positive, that that they're thinking, oh, that guy's a good guy. I mean, that's how it is, right? Oh, he's a good guy. That's what we always do. Oh yeah, he's good. Right? And it that's like, oh, okay. If you get that sign off from a respected person, you're good.
SPEAKER_02You know, the one of the issues that comes up when I think about these social situations is that uh sometimes we worry so much about what everybody else thinks about us that we put our own opinion of ourselves on pause. And in my opinion, that's what we need to be most uh aware of is who you are and don't cross the line.
SPEAKER_03I think you need to figure out what are the non-negotiables of who you are.
SPEAKER_01Yes.
SPEAKER_03The non-negotiables, that's like I said, if it was a moral situation, I'll say no a thousand times and I'll take every consequence you want to give me. I don't, I don't, uh not that I don't care, um, but my priority is something more than that. Uh I I do care. All right. I don't just go out here saying no to people who want me to say yes for the heck of it.
SPEAKER_02Well, at the beginning of the show, I mentioned that I've never met a recruit that uh came into this profession thinking I'm here to hurt people. Right. And I've never met another deputy who I could say that about as well. Exactly. Yeah. So I mean, that's easy. Where if somebody's gonna hurt a person, yeah, you know what, I'm gonna stop you. Right. We're gonna stop right there. Yeah. But sometimes the the only thing that's black and white in law enforcement is the car. It's the car. That's a good idea. So much gray.
SPEAKER_01You never heard that one before?
SPEAKER_03No, I never heard that one before. But but it's I obviously agree. Um, and yeah, it's it's all gray. And when you're dealing in an all-gray area, again, the absolutes of I don't put my head in an attic becomes um sort of an outlier of like, oh, that's your line, right? That's that's the one thing that you won't bend and you know, with policy or with with uh, I take that back, with uh tactics.
SPEAKER_01With tactics, with tactics, right?
SPEAKER_03Tactics, yes. Um that you would, you know, say no to this and like, well, you know, there's all kinds of tactics, all kinds of scenarios that you end up in that you're like, tell us this in the academy, and nothing against the academy. I get what I get what it is and what it needs to be. Um but life is so much more complex than that. And and yeah, you have to figure out what are the non-negotiables, what are the what are the things that I can negotiate with, and what are my strategies to to sell both of those to my partners and to maintain my self-respect, but also the respect of my teammates, because sometimes those two things are in contradiction to each other. So it's it's it's it's each individual has to walk that road for themselves. Each recruit, each new deputy has to figure out uh how much um, you know, they're willing to put on the line, how much they're wanting to stand firm, how much perception or fitting into the group dynamic matters to them. That's all it's all relative to to how they want their career to look, how they want their persona to be. And um, you know, it's not nothing. And it's just again, I think a lot of times it's it's especially like an ethics class, which okay, uh ethics class was like it's all black and white. Everything's black and white in ethics class. And and then you get out and you find out it's not like we're not doing a service when we s oversimplify the ethical dilemmas that you're going to encounter, yeah, and then just vilify one decision and and then you know, deify the other. And it's like, no, that's that's it's way more than that. And it and it and you end up not really doing a lot of good by simplifying it. And so I think approaching it from a perspective of hey, it's complicated, you know. I get with indemnification and things, it's difficult to do it that way, right? But real world, you know, you gotta say, hey, this isn't this isn't, for example, whenever the recruits would ask you guys, hey, in this situation, can you shoot? Can you shoot someone? What's the answer to that?
SPEAKER_02What's the answer to that? You know the answer to that. It depends.
SPEAKER_03It depends on each individual situation circumstances and the person, it depends on the person that you're facing, the person you are, the training you have, the scenario that's in front of you. It depends, right? And so that's one of the things that we do address in a complex way. It depends. We don't say, yeah, if he has a gun, you can shoot him. If he doesn't, you can't. That's not that simple. It's not that simple. It's not that simple. Neither is these dilemmas that officers and deputies encounter, like the one that I had to face. It's not that simple. It's not nothing. If I were to have held my ground and said no, I would have had to spend the next probably six hours trying to go and tell each of those people I'm not that guy that you think I am right now.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_03And God forbid it had been another person get shot. And then the guilt that I have, and then the judgment that I would have from the other partners, like that was my friend, I've been on the team with him for five years, you're new here, and you said no, and now he's hurt and not you. That's all real stuff that I would have had to to address or have to deal with. And um it's trauma.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it's trauma that we have to work through as part of the sacrifice that we take on to be in this profession. Yeah. And that's something that people don't understand. Yeah. Um, because it is traumatic. Um, we all have to work through those things, and just the fact that you're in you encounter something like that, you have to navigate through it. If you don't have the skills, if you don't have the experience, um it can be really difficult.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, and I I and just since we're here, you know, I I really enjoyed my time in the academy. I thought the training was great. Um, I thought you and and the other training officer. Um Casey. Yeah, yeah. I mean, we had our moments, and um, you know, I've never been yelled at like the way Casey Jeannie yelled at me. Uh, but I respect him. I mean, I thought it was a really, really great training. It prepared me. Uh, a lot of the stuff that we learned there ended up like coming back, and and you know, I was like, oh, this is like that scenario. This is like this training that I received. So um, but if it if I can conclude the the narrative, if you wouldn't mind, the story just to get to the the end of my story. As I'm looking at the the vent, I some particulate matter, I don't even know what came my eye and my eye kind of locked up and I couldn't see. At that point, I was like, look, I I can't, I'm not doing any good here. I think 1199 have it called or something. And so there's tons of officers here now, including a like SWAT and different people. So I'm like, I should probably go. I radioed for an ambulance. They said no. So they did like this deputy rescue, put me behind this vehicle. I'm sitting on the ground, and I'll never forget the sound. It was insane. I mean, the hundreds of sirens just permeating the air, and I just remember thinking this is crazy. Well, eventually at Carlsbad, I think sergeant comes and he's like, Hey, you want me to walk you out to the ambulance? And I said, Yeah, if you wouldn't mind. So he walks me round the corner, maybe a quarter mile, not maybe not that far. Ambulance door opens, and there's that medic from earlier who was going crazy. I'm just looking right at him. He goes, James, what is wrong with you? I'm like, I don't, I don't know, man. So they take me to the hospital. I call my mom. My mom, I was like, Hey mom. She says, Why are you calling me? You aren't you at work? I'm like, Yeah, you sitting down. She goes, Yeah. I said, Well, I got shot. She said, Okay. I was like, Well, that went pretty well. And uh, she said, Where? I said, You sitting down? And she said, Yeah, I said, in the head. She goes, All right, well, you all right? And I said, Yeah. And she said, Okay, well, your dad's in San Diego, which I didn't know. Okay. And so he'll meet you at the hospital. And so he take me to the hospital, and I'm sitting in the bed, and my dad walks in, and and uh I'm laying there looking at him, and he just very stoic. My dad's a very stoic guy. Um, and he said, Boy, you're lucky I pray for you every day. And I said, Yes, I know. And that was that was that. That was more or less our interaction. And and they were talking, and he said, uh, I said something like, Oh, I don't even know if I was shot. And he goes, No, you were. He said, I've seen the x-rays, you got metal in your head. And uh, to this day I can't have an MRI. Uh they won't do an MRI because they don't know if it's steel or lead, and the steel will be pulled through my head. So it shows up on x-rays, and I get questioned every once in a while, like, oh yeah, I forgot about that. Um, but you know, it it ended up um fortunately calling the other deputy. Um, he almost lost his leg, he almost lost his life. Um, that night, like a world-renowned surgeon was working and they they did surgery on him and they they ended up saving his leg. He's a deputy to this day. He's a sergeant. And um, you know, it was uh it was very formative in my career. It happened early on, and I think a lot of those the doubts, like the radio stuff, I've never paused anymore about what I say on the radio. I'll say what I want to say, you know. Oh, right. If I say no, the answer is no. And I have a confidence in saying that because of of this. And I think that confidence, like when I said no to him, it was like, I'm gonna convince you of this. As this person now, it's like, no, and it ain't happening. There's no way I'm doing that, right? So figure it out some other way. We're not doing that. Um, I think that it went a long way towards generating that that confidence in me. It's like, no, no, this is this the stakes were here. We're we're not playing games. This is this is serious stuff. And if I've decided something, I have the ability. And if anyone's questions, like I did the thing once and I'm not doing that again. And everybody goes, All right, yeah, yeah, I know. I've heard that before. So uh they end up inventing a thing called a Steinmeier stick, which is a camera that they they call it, think of a bullying thing. Not bullying, they call it the Steinmeier stick. You put it in the attic and it has a camera. That's not too bad. That's not too bad. That's not too bad. Yeah, and you know, it it is what it is, it comes with the territory. I you know, I get calls of keep your head out of the attic when I go to calls out for a few years later. And um, you know, it is what it is. Like I think on its surface, it sounds really bad, right? Idiot put his head in an attic and almost got it shot off. Um, I think there's some context in it that make it not quite that simple, um, not that quite quite that black and white. Um, I don't consider myself an idiot, but I did an idiot thing and uh almost almost lost my life for it.
SPEAKER_02Well, that was well said, James. Um, you know, everything happens for a reason. I believe that. And uh sometimes you don't know why things happen. Yeah. Eventually it'll reveal itself why it happened. But uh at the time you weren't a dad, right?
SPEAKER_03No, and and as you just said, I came back to the station, it was like the next day, and everybody was crying, hugging me, just like wow, you know, like thankful. And there was this evidence technician, she was this older lady named Celia, and she was I was always friends with her. Nobody else liked her because she was bean, but I liked her. All right, and I said, Celia, and she goes, Hi, Mr. Steinmeier, and I said, Celia, I got shot, and she goes, I know. I'm like, everybody else is crying, yeah. And she I go, Aren't you scared for me? She said, No. She goes, I know there's nothing's gonna happen to you. She goes, You're here for a reason. And I knew you weren't in danger.
SPEAKER_01And I was like, the heck are you?
SPEAKER_03What do you mean? Like she said it, like again, she wasn't a matter of fact. She said it, a matter of fact, like, no, I wasn't. And she goes, You're here for a reason, and you're not done yet. And and I heard a quote the other day, it says, If if God hasn't said it's my time, I'm invincible. And I was like, Yeah, that's kind of true. But when it's your time, you're out of here. Um, but yeah, it was um I have now have four kids, beautiful wife, I love my family. I never would have had any of that. I I wasn't married at the time. I was kind of living my life um recklessly in that way, not personally, but at the job, I I wanted to be at every hot call, I wanted to go to every dangerous thing, I wanted to be there first. And now having some other considerations, I've kind of backed off that mentality. I want to be there for my kids. I think that's that's my priority, is is my family. And um yeah, I'm very, I'm very lucky in so many different ways. And that's one of the things I wanted to kind of convey to your listeners is um, man, this job. I see a lot of lot of different podcasts, a lot of different law enforcement related content. And I feel like there is a lot of bitterness. I do feel like there's a lot of anger. There's a lot of people have been wronged and they have. And there's people that have been let down and they have. And I'm no different, right? I I've had my I have my grievances. I have my gripes, but I am just so grateful for the opportunity that the Sheriff's Department has given me, given me to fulfill my purpose. I'm so grateful. Sheriff Gore was wonderful to my family after this, right? Maybe politically, and he aren't the same, but he he led and he he treated my family very well. And I will always appreciate that. I'm just so grateful that, like, I mean, I met my wife here, she was a deputy. And I'm just, that's it. Just gratitude. Like, yes, guys, it's all legitimate. Like, I've been screwed over. I've been, you know, unfairly treated. God bless them, right? God bless them. And I'm gonna keep moving forward with my mission and without bitterness, without anger, um, and just being just so much gratitude, first of all, for life that God let me live through that so I could have what I have now, the family. Um, and um, gratitude for my profession that it allows me to fulfill my purpose, gratitude for the people that I work with. And if you find yourself being bitter about the situation, go help somebody, go do something for someone else. Go, go consider, maybe even for somebody who wronged you, maybe go out and and do something nice for them. Try and win them over, not for any selfish manipulative reason, but because we're human beings going through this this thing called life. And uh gratitude, I think, is the way to go. Kindness and respect and dignity and all the cliches, it's all it's all true. And I think um, I'm not taking away anybody's grievances or or their frustrations. I have them, but I think if we can really try and focus on gratitude and giving back and and doing good for those around us, I think you can alter your perspective and and uh those things become smaller, you know. Life's what you focus on. And if we can focus on the gratitude, those slights and those things that have been done to us have maybe shrink a little bit and don't become as big of a deal.
SPEAKER_02Well, James, thank you for your words. I um I couldn't agree with you more. I think uh the more we discover who we are and discover our purpose, the more we don't sweat the small stuff.
SPEAKER_03That's yeah.
SPEAKER_02And you know what? I think that your family is blessed, your co-workers are blessed, and our listeners are blessed with your story. I appreciate that. Thank you for being here, brother. Yeah, thank you. I appreciate you, man.
SPEAKER_03For giving it. I uh I'm I'm glad to be able to hopefully somebody get something out of it. Um I'm still a working deputy, so if anybody knows has any questions for me, then where to find me. I work for the sheriff's department. You can you can look it up. Well, thank you for being here.
SPEAKER_02Thank you for reconnecting. Yeah. Um amazing. Appreciate it. Uh, thank you for listening. Uh, please uh leave comments, please um let us know what you want to hear, other stories that you want to hear. Um, you know, stories like this are amazing because they tell us a little bit about the sacrifice that the men and women in line forces make every single day. And in addition to that, it gives a little bit of humanity, a glimpse of the humanity behind the badge. For those of you already on the job, if you're struggling with anything, Coplink has people 24-7 that are there to help you. Reach out and make sure that you're mentally okay for doing this job. We're gonna uh end with a prayer from our brother in Christ, our brother in law enforcement, Greg Adminson. Thank you for watching.
SPEAKER_00We come before you with gratitude for the brave men and women who have answered the sacred call to protect and serve. You said in Romans 13, verse 4, that the one in authority is God's servant for your good. Lord, we thank you for every officer who stands the line. We thank you for every officer who runs toward the sound of danger when others run away. We thank you, God, for every officer who brings order out of chaos, and who seeks justice with compassion. Father, as warriors in a fallen world, we draw our strength from you. Your word declares in Psalm 144, verse 1, Blessed be the Lord, my rock, who trains my hands for war, my fingers for every battle. Train our hands, Lord, not only for the battles of the street, but for the battles within. Give us courage when fear whispers, give us patience when tempers rise. Grant us wisdom when decisions must be made in an instant. Lord, we ask for your divine protection over every officer in the field. Surround them with your angels as a shield, as you promised in Psalm 91, and let your peace guard their heart and mind in Christ Jesus. When they grow weary, remind them that those who hope in the Lord will renew their strength, they will soar on wings like eagles. Almighty God, you are our strength, you are our shield, you are our ever present help in times of trouble. Father, when the day's work is done, bring them home safely, restore their spirit, renew their joy, and remind them that they do not fight this battle alone. For you go before them, you go beside them, you are with them. In the mighty name of Jesus Christ, our commander and king. Amen.