PHIT PD
PHIT PD hosted by Juan Cephas and Ashley "Smashley" Cummins reveals what it takes to be at your best physically and mentally for your duties as a police officer.
PHIT PD
How the Rodney King Incident Changed Policing Forever
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In this episode, we sit down with a retired San Diego police detective whose career spans one of the most transformative eras in modern law enforcement. Starting with the Los Angeles Police Department in 1988 and later joining the San Diego Police Department, he offers a firsthand perspective on how policing evolved in the wake of the Rodney King incident and its nationwide impact.
With 11 years in patrol, 11 as a detective, and nine years training recruits as a legal core instructor, he breaks down what it takes to build strong cases, write reports that hold up in court, and adapt to the changing expectations of the job. From working domestic violence, vice, and narcotics to supporting homicide investigations, this conversation dives into the realities of police work—on the street and behind the scenes.
🎯 Whether you're a first responder, military, or someone interested in becoming a law enforcement officer—this conversation will move you, challenge you, and inspire you.
👇 Drop a comment with your favorite takeaway, and remember to subscribe if you want more real conversations like this.
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And then, like I when I teach at the academy, our biggest issue is alcohol. Alcohol is our biggest issue. If you got rid of alcohol, you'd only need half of the boost for it. I try to tell the uh the recruit if you've got a domestic violence call, as soon as that front door opens, your foot needs to be inside. And then you have to take control of the situation. Control your crime scenes. You have to take command regardless of your ID. If you're the first officer at the scene, you're the officer in charge.
SPEAKER_02Welcome everybody. My name is Juan Stefas from Fit PD, and this is lineup with FitPD. You know, after nearly 30 years, I retired from law enforcement and I retired as a sergeant. And I've seen just about every angle of the profession. I've also been teaching at the police academy for almost 25 years. And I can tell you with certainty that if we don't train people properly, that's when things go wrong, and that's when lives can change forever. This podcast is about perspective, truth, and looking behind the curtain. Today's guest started his law enforcement career in 1988 with LAPD. He came to San Diego and joined San Diego Police Department in 1991. He worked patrol, he worked one of the busiest uh divisions at the time, which is uh Central Division. He then moved on to investigations and and worked in investigations at several different investigative groups, including homicide relief. But he wasn't done. He decided to go on to law school and got his degree. He used that degree and his experience in law enforcement to become the legal core instructor at the police academy. That means he's in charge of the report writing, investigative um classes, as well as all legal issues related to the academy. It's a critical, critical position, which we're going to be talking about the dynamics of that position today. Please help me welcome Greg Olson. Thank you, Juan. Greg, thank you for being here, brothers. Thank you. Appreciate you, man. Yes. Hey, um, you know, let's go back to 1988. Yes. You're a young man joining the LAPD. And uh can you kind of tell us what's going on in LA in 1988?
SPEAKER_00Uh I was 23 at the time. Uh I was born and raised in Montana. So uh I had just moved to, I got hired by Los Angeles. So we started our academy in January. Uh at that point, everything was brand new. Just trying to get to my house to the police academy was an adjustment. Uh there was a lot happening. Uh, but the academy had such a huge impact. It was uh very structured, which I loved. Everything was what you were going to do for the whole day. And I really bought into the training program. All right. Uh I remember Chief Gates came to the academy and I I bought into what he was selling. Uh everything was, I loved the academy. And then with LAPD, you graduated on a certain day, and then the next day you were working patrol. There was no agency-specific training, obviously, because it was LAPD. Sure. So we graduated, I graduated on a Thursday, and I was working patrol on Friday night, and then everything changed. It was it wasn't pretend world anymore. It was uh it was the real world. And we were uh there was live bullets in your gun, and uh there was no more role playing, and uh their probation was a full year, and uh that was a huge adjustment for me from going from pretend world to real world within 24 hours.
SPEAKER_02Now, you um you're in patrol with a FTO, a field training officer, and what part of LA are you working in?
SPEAKER_00At that point, I was working in West Valley, it was uh Reseda Ventura Boulevard. You did that for a year, and then I was transferred to 77th Division, which is right by USC, so just north of USC. Florence Avenue, you have in those particular in that particular area.
SPEAKER_02Okay, so now um you're you're working there until 1991. Yes. And uh in 1991, it's when the Rodney King incident actually occurred. Yes, I just had missed that incident, yes. You just so you had just left?
SPEAKER_00I just had yes, I had just left. So you left in time? Yes. Or oh well, you could say, well, it depends on how you want to phrase it. Right?
SPEAKER_02Yes, I had left prior to that incident. Now, um you're in San Diego, and you I'm I'm imagining that at some point you hear about what just happened with Rodney King. Yes. And what's your reaction to that?
SPEAKER_00My reaction, obviously, uh it was a failure to stop. I believe he was in a Volkswagen, they went on a pursuit. Uh units, obviously, there the traffic stop occurred. And uh obviously, if you look at the video, you had 20 to 30 officers, and then you had a circle of four or five with their PR24s on Rodney King, who was down, giving commands. You had your uh helicopter unit up above, very chaotic, uh obviously, uh as if what you saw you on the first time you were going, oh, this is way excessive use of force, this and that. But then you kind of put yourself in the minds of the police officers at the time. They were giving him commands, he was standing up, but I believe he was probably standing up because he didn't want to get hit anymore. Uh that had probably had something to do with it. But uh it was a training that you the individual had to comply before you approached. Okay. And then I looked at it in retrospect with a lot of other agencies that I see around the country. There's a good chance Rodney King would have been killed. Okay. There would have been weapons that had been used. Uh, but it was a very traumatic event. And I looked, and uh LAPD was very big with the PR 24. Uh, and that's where you saw it. And then you then you had the circle of officers. So I always kind of wondered why didn't you just jump on the individual? Right. And do more hands-on contact. Uh, but then I read reports, they thought he was on PCP at the time. Obviously, I don't think that sh that was negative. Uh, his behavior. Uh it was just a bad situation for both party for all parties involved.
SPEAKER_02But uh I wasn't surprised to see it. You weren't surprised to see it. Now you you weren't in that division at one point. Uh 77th division, yes. And uh how many officers at that time were in that division?
SPEAKER_0077th, I was pro we had 19 divisions. I'm thinking we probably had a little over 200 officers in that division.
SPEAKER_02All right. So um there's a chance that you may or may not have at least seen some of those officers at the scene.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I'm sure I did. I don't know the officers. Obviously, you had the four officers, uh Powell, uh, and the three other officers uh at the scene that were tried, and then they had a second trial. And I believe, if I remember, I interacted. Mind you, I was new to 77, so I believe there's maybe I interacted with a couple of them. But other than that, that was it.
SPEAKER_02Now, aside from that incident, what else is going on in LAPD in um 1988 through 91? I mean, like, what kind of radio calls do you respond to?
SPEAKER_00We're getting narcotics had taken over. Okay. Cocaine had taken over. Uh your gang sets had definitely taken over. Uh you had uh there was a lot of money to be made uh with narcotics, and they were taking over the neighborhoods. Uh human trafficking was starting to come into play, which I saw a lot of that. And everything that we based was uh tactic-wise. Uh you didn't uh when we conducted uh traffic stops, you made sure that the individuals' hands were outside the window. So you did not approach until their hands were outside the window, and then you conducted your investigation at that point. And obviously, on a detention, depending upon what you're observing with the individuals, we take the individuals out because of officer safety and handcuffle. Not much on community uh relations, right? Uh, which obviously I think that had a huge effect on the LA riots. Yes. Uh but that's just what was occurring. And so that's the way I was trained on that. And uh like I said, uh rock cocaine decimated that area.
SPEAKER_02Now, with rack rock cocaine coming in, and I'm uh I'm sure that PCP was also being used at the same time. Um now with those drugs prevalent in the neighborhoods, uh are officer assaults more prevalent?
SPEAKER_00They hands-on uh contact was yes, there was a lot of hands-on uh contact between the officers and the individuals that we're dealing with. Uh you had a very good uh backup units were very close. Uh we did we were not lacking with patrol units. Okay. So in that particular area, but we were more of uh the way I was trained, more hands-on, getting more physical in that and not and not bringing out your gun. Okay. So it was uh more of a a wrestling type of mode, which was what I was accustomed to.
SPEAKER_02Now, you know, um fighting with someone or trying to arrest someone who is under the influence of uh especially PCP, it's very difficult because they don't have pain compliance doesn't work.
SPEAKER_00They're they they they're not feeling any pain. Uh and at that point they are blacking out, but still conscious. So they're not aware of their actions. And uh like I said, in certain areas, PCP combined with marijuana and then with alcohol, yes, you've got those type of individuals. And so as you approached, uh obviously you can tell just by looking at somebody's pupils on what they're on. And when they're when you have an individual that's not blinking as you're speaking to them, okay, you got to start thinking, uh, I I gotta reconsider what what we have here.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_00Uh and and that was the same issue with when I came to San Diego PD and was assigned to Central Division on Logan Heights. That was a huge issue too. So uh, like I said, with narcotics, I've always it's going to be with us. Uh we're gonna have to deal with it. We're San Diego's one of the biggest hubs in the world for narcotics. And uh I just I it's it's going to be there, and we're gonna have to come up with I don't know if we could if there's a better solution on how we're handling it. Uh I know at one point we were sending all of our individuals to prison, but those were low offenders. Right. And obviously it cost the state a lot of money to keep an individual in the prison system. And you have to remember the state of California is the fifth fifth strongest economy in the world. So keeping individuals in prison for $130,000 a year, yeah, that the numbers don't come out. So we decriminalized narcotics to a certain degree, and then obviously we're starting to legalize it. Uh as you know, uh marijuana, just from uh in Washington, uh is now a scheduled three, not a scheduled one anymore. Uh I see us, and we are now doing more testing with uh hallucinogenic type of drugs. So uh the federal government is approving that to go in that direction. Uh I also see California because you have mushrooms that are legal in Colorado, I believe Washington, Oregon, and because it's a public entity, we get to see how much money they make. And California is going, oh, we need to get a part of this. So I see mushrooms uh being legalized. I see ecstasy going into that. And then also uh we're taxing.
SPEAKER_02We're taxing.
SPEAKER_00And we're not gonna get rid of it because whatever we want, we're gonna get. And I think the state of California is going, I mean, we've we fought this drug battle. It didn't, we didn't win. Didn't turn out how we wanted it to turn out. No, no, and uh, and then like I when I teach at the academy, our biggest issue is not those type of narc is alcohol. Oh alcohol is our biggest issue. It alcohol is a big problem. I mean, if you uh if you got rid of alcohol, you'd only need half of a police department.
SPEAKER_02Well, and not to mention the jails would be a quarter of the population.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean, you watch uh uh football game, there there's alcohol commercials all over. I mean, we're promoting it. So, and that's our biggest issue. I mean, we're worried about the the marijuana and the much. I'm going the alcohol's the biggest.
SPEAKER_02Well, I heard that Super Bowl Sunday, um the following day is the biggest day for domestic violence arrest report slash people in custody.
SPEAKER_00Oh, yes, yeah. I uh I was assigned to domestic violence. Oh yeah, any type of huge sporting event, the next day was in custody. It was it was all in custodies. And yeah, you uh so I don't know with our we we do like our uh recreational drugs, and alcohol's one of them. And uh like I always mentioned to the uh when I'm instructing, I have to be very cautious on that. I mean, you read the book, alcohol's all over it. It is. Yeah. I mean, I I'd be comical, but the Last Supper, the wine was just being passed around.
SPEAKER_02No, no, no, let's go back to that. Let's go back to 1991, uh, Greg. So um you get to San Diego, and now we're still struggling with uh, I mean, crack cocaine is hitting San Diego, huge, huge problem. We're next to the biggest border in the one of the biggest ones in the United States or in the world with uh Tijuana. And um the violence in San Diego against cops was at a peak. Yes. In the late 80s, early 90s. I mean, if you get here in 91, it was right after, or right um, or you got here right before uh Officer Ron Davis was um shot and killed in the line of duty. And um what so you get here from LA, but not much has changed. You end up working in Logan Heights, and there's still the same level of violence, same still a lot of drugs. What are you seeing back then?
SPEAKER_00Uh the same thing. Uh when I worked 77th Division, it was the exact same thing on just on how narcotics can change the dynamics of a neighborhood. So you uh very uh with 25th Imperial, you had the liquor store there and right across the street you had the welfare. And at any given moment, there could be three to three hundred and fifty people just walking 24-7 in a zombie type of state. And then you uh also had some very good families that lived there, but because of financial reasons, they had to stay there. Right. They would have loved to moved out, uh moved somewhere else, but they couldn't afford to. And now you've got their kids going to school, you have the middle school, uh, you had Chicano Park, which was a mess. So you kind of felt for them. They wanted to move out, but financially they couldn't. Right. So uh you and then like I said, you had your particular gang sets in Logan Heights uh trying to control the situation. Just uh and at that point I felt it was kind of like a no-win situation. You just kept arresting, arresting, arresting. But then I like what PD did once I made investigations. They built uh Central Division at 25th and Imperial. Right. It's in replace of the uh welfare building. So I thought that was good, and then PD was definitely focused on community relations. And it was a I mean, in some areas we failed, but in some areas we were making more adjustments. PD felt that we've got to get more interaction within the community. So I I I like that.
SPEAKER_02That was good. Yeah, well, I mean, there was a big transition, especially when uh at the time it was Chief uh Jerry Saunders took over. Um he uh really pushed for community policing and just a you know a paradigm shift in the way we policed in the community.
SPEAKER_00Yes. Uh and he he knew we we were not going to uh make a dent in our crime rates until we get to the community to buy in. And then I just uh and then there's community relations officers who were uh very good at but their public speaking. Sure. And you and you have to be, and that's why I I try to tell the recruits uh and which I think Post, who oversees everything, they should do a uh at least 12 to 15 hours in a in a police academy for public speaking. And to go in that direction. But yeah, uh Chief Sanders realize that we've got we've got to have the community buy-in.
SPEAKER_02Absolutely. So now you're working in the community in 1991, and you're working in an area that's heavily trafficked by uh narcotics, narcotics users, prostitutes, and this time period is really when you had Logan Heights gang members partner up with the cartel, the AFO, and um inundate Southern California and beyond with uh narcotics. Um experience working with any of those groups during that time period?
SPEAKER_00Well, like I said, uh my beat was 513, and then I was on a walking patrol from uh 25th Imperial till 30th, and then you had commercial. So your gang set, which my gang experience with LAPD had a lot to do with that.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_00Uh but it was more on a enforcement, not gathering information. Okay. So uh tactics-wise, communication-wise, probably not as good like uh right now we have our GST units. So they're more on gathering information. Back then I uh I wasn't involved trying to obtain information. I was more involved in let's arrest, move on. And obviously that didn't wasn't working. Right. But uh so you have that, and then you had, like I said, your different gang sets on their their clothes, all of that comes into play. And they were not they were not hiding that. Right. Uh I mean you were you hit Chicano Park, you saw that particular gang set, you go to 25th Imperial, 32nd, and Imperial, you had different games. So nobody was hiding, which uh uh I didn't like. Just I wish you could hide, but but now it was like it was a uh no respect thing. We're gonna do what we have here.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_00And then that's uh, but then when like I said, Chief Sonder Sanders, when he came in, he said, Hey, we got we got to get the community to help here. We've got some work, we've got, we've got to reanalyze it. And then you had your POP projects, project-oriented policing that came into play. Uh so we were going in the right direction.
SPEAKER_02Now, did you mention a little bit about tactics? Did tactics change much in our daily activities and how we contacted these gang members because of the uh high number of officers that were getting murdered in San Diego?
SPEAKER_00I looked at it when I was working here. Uh I would go in the direction tactics was the same. We were just a lot more cautious.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_00And uh especially on detentions, you know, reasonable suspicion that you think the individual is involved in criminal activity. Uh more handcuffing. Okay. Then do your pat down on that. And then depending upon your communication skills, depending on what you wanted to do with like an 1151 or an FI, definitely comes into how are you going to handle it? Uh so that definitely came into play, but I could tell you uh we were more cautious on our tactics when you approach, definitely want to see somebody's hands. Uh that came into play, which had a lot to do, which I was comfortable with because of my LA with LA in that particular area.
SPEAKER_02So yeah, uh things evolved. Any particular arrests or contacts that stand out from that time period?
SPEAKER_00I would have to say any uh we had a few individuals uh that were under the influence of PCP. Okay. On uh getting cover units, at least five or six officers, and the individual probably weighed no more than 140 pounds, and it was it took five or six of us. And and in in Logan Heights, uh especially with your Sherman gang members, and then you had your Chicago Park, uh PCP was starting to come into play. And uh just with that, when you saw somebody with a blank stare, it was 513 King, do we have an additional unit? And this was no, they weren't listening to any commands, right? And that was starting to become more prevalent. Uh somebody that's not on narcotics, uh, they're gonna listen. Somebody that's on narcotics, they're just giving you that blank stare, and you're going, oh, this is this is not gonna go well. This is not gonna go well. Uh so a lot of that was going on in those particular areas. And then we uh, like I said, domestic violence, we were getting a lot more calls with domestic violence, but I think more people were starting to call in. So then you started to get the aspects of the family life of these individuals that were doing narcotics and things like that, starting to figure out the dynamics of the family. So that definitely started to come into it. Yes.
SPEAKER_02Now at some point you end up moving into investigations. Yes. Right? And um in investigations, what are some of the cases in the different units that you worked that uh that stand out for you?
SPEAKER_00Uh that stand out. Uh now remember with uh with PD on investigations, uh they usually would start you with juveniles. Yes. So I I worked juveniles. Uh they had me in Northern Division, so the whole juvenile situation was different because now you're dealing with juveniles up in Torrey Pines High in Delmar Heights. Okay. So now you're starting to go more with the community of politics. Politics definitely played a huge role. Uh you had your private schools that definitely uh played a huge role too on how you handled it. Uh on what, you know, some individuals, if they donated more to the uh private school and their uh son or daughter got into trouble, that definitely you started to get more of an aspect on that. Which which I was completely unaware of because I had come from there from prior to where I was at now, and I'm gone, oh, so there are politics involved. So uh that was that was that it was a it was it was a nice learning experience, I have to say that. It was good. So but uh so what what kind of case stood out where one case was probably uh you had a huge party in Del Mar, right by Torrey Pines High School, and it was like a 16-year-old who had a very, very nice house. Uh it was a multi-million dollar house in the 90s, so you and there was a party that occurred, and everybody went to this house and damaged tens of thousands of dollars in the house. Wow. And so patrol showed up, and this house was completely destroyed. And the family, the parents that were gone, wanted everybody accountable for their actions. And that was you're talking about 40 individuals who a lot of them at that time, as we're investigating, were retaining attorneys already that we haven't even contacted yet. And when you start retaining high-end attorneys, they're not calling your department, I mean your sergeants or lieutenants, they're calling the seventh floor already. The top floor. The top floor regarding the situation. And then you start to get involved with uh individuals that if this is on my school record, I'm not going to be able to get to a certain school. And now you're dealing with private attorneys. So that was my first experience on like dealing with not a public defender or DA, but a private defense attorney. Oh. On when it comes to the Constitution and the Fifth Amendment, and what do we have? Uh, so that was that was for juvenile uh that was a lot. And then uh, like I said, another one was uh on a private school, somebody made a huge donation uh to the football field, and uh there's a dispute over your varsity coach and JV coach on the field, and then they got into a physical confrontation, but not knowing that the varsity coach had donated a lot of money to the field, and he felt he was entitled, but your JV coach was just a volunteer, and uh then you then you get some phone calls from you know the seventh floor. What are we gonna do? You know, so that was you kind of go, hmm. So I really got my experience with money and politics on okay, this is this is what's happening. And that was juveniles.
SPEAKER_02Now you move on to vice at some point.
SPEAKER_00I did a stunt in vice. Uh it was night vice. Uh better than juveniles? Completely different. It was completely different because you're working a uh uh at night, and you have Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday off, or Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, which uh and you're working from five to three. Uh and I remember we were working and we had to uh Elcone Boulevard, as long as you got your seven to ten uh prostitutes, then you worked other areas. Uh so yeah, that uh I could not handle the uh the five to three. Oh. Yeah, the five to three was tough with Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday off. I just uh I uh I just couldn't handle it. And so and it wasn't good for me health-wise either. Okay. So uh at that point uh I said I had the invitation become uh permanent because I was there on loan for like three months, and I I I go, no, I I can't because I looked at it health-wise, I've gone, this is this is not it's not worth it. This is not this is not worth it in any way.
SPEAKER_02Now, during those three months, any cases that stood out, any you know obviously we worked with uh at that point uh gangs, the gang suppression team.
SPEAKER_00So we definitely were working with them uh because uh with any type of your street prostitutes, you always had the pimp that was nearby, which was gang related. Right. So that definitely came into play, and then gangs would take over as once we got the information. Uh another one, uh obviously we would go into uh uh strip clubs, and which was all each dancer has to have a license, and then in the back of the uh establishment, there's their pitcher and their license. And as you know, a lot of people don't know any private dance in San Diego. If there's any touching, it's illegal. Yeah. Well, if you go to a a strip club and you get a private dance, there's gonna be touching. So to uh the enforcement end was very easy, but then you uh I had a few of the dancers take me to court because they did not want to lose their license. Sure. Because in order uh for your strip clubs, in order to be a dancer, you had to have your license and had to be approved by our day vice unit. Right. Uh so I I I kind of felt for them to a certain degree. But other than that, it was like with Vice, you had your prostitution, obviously serving minors. Uh it was, but here's the thing with vice low-level crimes, but if you do not monitor those, they can explode very quickly. Yeah. You hit some of your strip clubs, if you don't have those in our detectives coming in, you're definitely gonna get gangs coming in, and then you're gonna get heavy narcotics, and then things are gonna start to happen. So you have to monitor those. It's like dealing with the homeless problem. If you don't monitor that, it's going to explode. So vice is in that area. Now, vice, right now, everything's online. So things have definitely changed. I don't even know are there if there are street prostitutes. Oh, yeah, there are because it was in the paper a few months ago. Yes, yes, yes.
SPEAKER_02Now, you know, you also end up working in domestic violence. And working in domestic violence, what what are some big takeaways like for for you teaching at the academy or just personal um observations from working in that unit?
SPEAKER_00I try to tell the uh the recruits uh if you've got a domestic violence call, as soon as that front door opens, your foot needs to be inside because you're going inside the house. And you have every right to do because it's one of the exigent circumstances. Uh you're going in and then you have to take control of the situation. And like I said, our average age of our recruit is what, 20, 23, 24, 25 years old. And domestic violence is in all aspects of society. Some of you are gonna go to a DV call in Rancho Santa Fe with some of these individuals that make more money in one week than you will a whole year, and now you're gonna come in there and you're gonna run the show, and these individuals aren't gonna like it. And that's where your officer safety has to come into play. But you also have to know what you're doing, which is what we have at the academy. But uh you also have to look at the body actions of the parties because when uh and when I was my time at domestic violence, I only had uh two cases where the male was the victim.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_00All right, I don't want to stereotype, but the male was however, those cases he dropped it. So all the other ones were females. And when you go in there and you have both parties there, when you when they call for domestic violence, we're not there within seconds. We're gonna be there within any four to seven minutes on a good night. And if you have your suspect in there, they're looking at that female, going, if I go to jail, I'm not coming back. And you're gonna have to handle this situation. So more likely than not, they're gonna change their story. Now, if it's physical injuries, that's a we're good there. You have the evidence, but if it's a 243 E1 misdemeanor with no injuries, you got to start looking at your body actions of the people that you're dealing with. So I'm trying to tell the recruits that when you go in, officer safety definitely comes into play. Everybody's detained until, but start looking at the body actions of the individuals and just the way they look at somebody. And can you get a pretty good idea on what occurred, even though they're not telling you the truth, but is there fear involved? Right. And that's I want you to start going in that direction. And the state of California did a great job in the early 90s where they decided, misdemeanor not committed in your presence with the domestic violence, you can arrest the individual based on good faith. And body action's definitely come into play, and a big one is the 911 uh phone call, the recording. So that can add uh to the evidence involved, and at least you went in there and were able to do something. Because when I was with LA, uh we didn't have that, and you just said, hey, you got a place to go. And then the individual will go somewhere, get his drink on, come back, and then kill the individual. And that's what led to this domestic violence law, misdemeanor not committed or presence. So these are just uh your body actions, observe somebody's body actions, their tone, and you can get a lot within that particular what you're dealing with.
SPEAKER_02So now you weren't the homicide relief as well.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, only a very short time. I didn't like that. Did not like that. I didn't like uh the you're on call three weeks of the month and you only you weren't paid. And 300 hours got you one discretionary day off. And it was dictated what you were gonna do during those three weeks of on call. I did I didn't like it. I didn't I did not like there was no compensation. Right. And you it was dictated to you this is what you were going to do without any if so if you didn't get a call out, because the individual who brought me on was my uh detective sergeant prior, and then he went to homicide and brought me on. And I did that, and I uh uh his name was Pete. I go, Pete. He goes, hey, I want to bring you on to the team, this and that. And I'm going, I I I don't like the parameters here. I don't, I I I don't like it. What do you mean you don't like it? I don't like to be told I gotta be within an hour, show up, but if we don't get called out, I don't even accumulate one day of a discretionary day off. He goes, Yeah, I felt you would probably go in that direction. So that was it.
SPEAKER_02Now, while you were there, any interesting cases? No. No, nothing stood out. No, you gotta remember I was a I was a backup. No, so yeah. Any um but nonetheless, working there, you still have some teaching points for that in mind for our recruits, yeah.
SPEAKER_00With the on the investigations end, uh especially on a patrol, and then obviously I worked other investigation units, uh control your crime scenes. You have to take command, regardless of your ID number. If you're the first officer at the scene, you're the officer in charge. So you got to get your inner perimeter out, your outer perimeter, you got to separate your witnesses, you gotta start looking at evidence. And for those of you that are gonna uh for the individuals that are gonna go to a faster division, uh these are active crime scenes. So there's a lot happening. Controlled crime scenes are the best because you can just lock it down and everything happen. But active crime scenes, especially like if you've got a shooting down in Northern Division during the summer, those shootings and stabbings are gonna happen at three o'clock in the morning with about 70 people. And you start telling people you got to stay over here, they're not going to do that. So you've got to have a command presence, but with good communication skills. And everybody's is a suspect until you rule them out. A great uh what I use, especially I just read in the paper, where they had that shooting last year after a pottery game on a Sunday. It was at a club, it was on a Sunday afternoon, and you had to take an elevator to go up, and somebody was shot and killed. So obviously you had your uh bike team respond. But can you imagine? Now that's an active crime scene. Right. You go into a bar like that at 4:30 in the afternoon, you have hundreds of people who've been drinking. Now you've got to run that scene, and you've got to let people now know that you are in charge. And that's what I'm trying to tell the recruits that once you graduate, you are now in charge, and you've got to take over the crime scene, but you also got to know what you're doing. Also have to know what questions you're going to ask. What do we have here? Who should I have? Uh so all of that, and then putting to that all together with officer safety being number one. Yes, I try to go, you've got to command the situation. And then you also you're gonna have other officers there coming too. And you've got to be able to dictate where you want them. This is what I want you to do, and you have to do it with authority because they need to know that you know what you're doing.
SPEAKER_02Right. So now, Greg, with all this investigative experience, and then at some point you got your um law degree, you are now a prime candidate to become the legal core, the person in charge of all things legal at the academy. Yes. Yes. And tell us a little bit about your experience there at the academy.
SPEAKER_00Uh, like I said, the the academy uh training had a huge impact with me. Obviously, what we spoke about with LAPD, training was everything. I I bought into it. And uh the core position, I didn't even know. Oh, they have a core, because I never went to the academy with San Diego, so I did not know all the mechanisms. And then I I go, oh, you have a sworn individual that oversees all this. I mean, they oversee search and seizure, laws of arrest. And uh we go over search warrants, and I'm going, oh, I'm this is exactly what I want to do. And then uh report writing. And uh so I interviewed twice for it and didn't get it. Okay. So at that point, and then the third time I interviewed for it, and it's uh, as you know, it's uh it's countywide. Right. So I interviewed for it, and uh, I got the position, and I knew right away this was this was my calling. I was because I had written warrants, the crime scene, all of that was just coming together, and I'm going, oh, this is I'm going back to 1988, and uh I I I haven't stopped. Now you're the uh subject matter expert, right? At that time, yes.
SPEAKER_02Yes. For laws of arrest and search and seizure. And so um, you know, you're in charge of the instruct uh instructors that are teaching under that core, you're in charge of the curriculum, you're in charge of what's rolled out to senior officers as well as recruits. That sounds like a big responsibility.
SPEAKER_00It was. It was a big one. Uh I remember I had to do individual training for report writing. Obviously, report writing was a huge issue. Uh I had to put out training on the difference between a consensual and a detention, and what you can do on a detention. Uh that came into play. Uh, vehicle stops, what you can and cannot do, what you can search for, what you cannot search for. So there was just uh, especially with specific uh agency-specific training, I had to come up with more training in those particular areas. But I enjoyed it, it was good. Uh Post does a pretty good job on their LDs, but it's very minimal. And of course, because it's their it's the police academy. Right. Where the recruits are gonna get or trainees are gonna get a lot more training is with their FTOs. So FTOs definitely play a huge role uh in these uh in these trainees on their daily activities and what they're learning. So, like I said, with report writing, do we have people who struggle with report writing? We do. And then at that time we would make arrangements that they would uh go to a slower division, but With a very competent FTO in report writing.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_00But eventually, they're going to have to go to a faster division, and that's a 50-50 whether they're going to make it or not. And that's to d that goes on today as we speak. It's not it's not going to go away, but like I uh we were talking prior, uh you have AI that's coming into play.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that's right. You know, you brought up the AI thing. Well tell us a little bit about what AI is how is it gonna possibly look in the future.
SPEAKER_00It's gonna definitely benefit the public and uh time being saved by patrol officers and detectives. Uh we're gonna get, I believe, the day of the report writing instructor in three to five years is not going to be there. Okay. It's all going to be AI. You're gonna show up, you're gonna have a program, and if it's say if it's a residential burglary, they're you're gonna have your, and I believe all of us are gonna, all officers are gonna have their department-issued cell phone. They're gonna get all the information from the radio call, which will now differ put into a different program, and then they'll have all the questions that the officers need to ask, and then you ask, and it's gonna be recorded, and then after everything is recorded, AI will spit out the report for you, and we're going in that direction. It's gonna save money, and you have some agencies experimenting with AI right now, but AI is still learning, so there are some issues, sure, but in three to five years, those issues are gonna be resolved. And another one with AI, the the day of the drone, you're gonna have drones, which you do have agencies now. Say if you have a 415 uh disturbance at a park, a drone will go there and circle it and give the information and what's being filmed to the officer arriving. I think the drones are gonna definitely start doing commands as a recording. And I think we're gonna have pepper spray on these drones uh within that area. And I just see the whole drone situation. We're gonna have drones going all over. The only thing is is the uh Privacy Act. You have a lot of your advocate groups that are who's are the are they filming 360? Who's keeping this information? How old are these individuals? And when I have family and friends talk to me about, you know, law enforcement's going this, that, and my thing is, you know, there is no age requirement with law enforcement. If you want to be a part of it, you could be 60 years old and we'll take you. You just have to pass the PT test. Because I I had a recruit once that was 62 years old and he passed. So there is no age requirement. So if you want to particular, you know, want to have some say, sign up.
SPEAKER_02Sign up now, Greg, what were some other challenges at the academy in the legal core?
SPEAKER_00Uh obviously report writing, uh, command presence. Command presence. Command presence on do you know what you're doing? Is this is this legal? Do we have a lawful detention? Because if you have a lawful detention, they're not free to go. You also have uh a lot of individuals think that the individual has to identify themselves. They don't. You can it's the Fifth Amendment. I don't need to speak to the government. On a lawful detention, I can't walk away, but I don't need to say anything. Right. And I and if an officer asks me, Do you have ID? Yes, can I see it? No. He hasn't he or she has no right to take that ID from me. Unless I'm placed under arrest and then incident to arrest, you conduct the search. But prior to that detention, I don't need to ID myself. I don't need to say anything. As long as I'm not lying or misrepresenting, I can go, and I try to tell the recruits you're gonna talk to individuals, what's your name? And they're gonna say something very vulgar to you, you can't place them under arrest. Freedom of speech? Freedom of speech. You cannot, as long as you're not lying or misrepresenting. But if I'm telling you F you, that's there's no crime. And we do have officers and deputies that have a difficult time with that. Now, if you find a municipal code that you're gonna write them a ticket on and they don't identify, okay, now we can place them under arrest, and now we have 148 coming in. That comes into play, but do you know what you're doing at the at that time? And that's where you have to keep things in check. And that's where uh you have to keep your ego in check, and that's a big issue. Uh you're giving these young officers the right to carry a gun, some of them a few guns. It's a lot of power, but you gotta keep it in check, and you also have to know what you're doing.
SPEAKER_02So that's what I'm trying to Well, you know, knowing your job, knowing what you're doing, it's critical. I, in my opinion, I always tell the recruits that uh knowing knowledge is number one. You also gotta be sometimes, you know, somewhat skilled in defensive tactics, and you have to be physically strong. Yes. Those three can help you through just about any scenario that you encounter.
SPEAKER_00Yes.
SPEAKER_02But knowledge, number one.
SPEAKER_00Knowledge, what are you doing as it lawful? Yes. And then are you doing it professionally? So those are big things. Do it lawfully and professionally. I try to tell the career, I don't need to remind this individual where they're at in life. We know where they're at. Obviously, it's not going well because I'm here and you're there. Right. I don't need to remind. And what is your main goal with this individual? What is your goal? Do you want to do uh an 1151 and FI on this individual and one wants and warts? Then go in that direction. Do you have enough for probable cause for the arrest? So when you do have enough probable cause for do you know how to write the report? Are you putting the elements in? And then is this a pretty and then who's signing the report? You've got that that plays a huge role. Right. So I always tell them with your reports, always go to a supervisor who's actually going to read the report, and they know what they're reading. Because the last thing you want to do is go to court, and I can tell you there are some very good public defenders and private defense attorneys that are going to drill you on that stand, and it's not going to be comfortable. And I know there's some officers and deputies on their first couple couple times that they testify, they're going, I'm not going to do this anymore. Because you got to remember, you're sitting down in the courtroom and they're standing up. And some of these defense attorneys are in FI stance, which has never happened to that officer at all. And that defense attorney, especially a private one that's on a retainer, is coming right up to you eye to eye. And there's the officer sitting down going, it's usually the other way around. Right. And it's based on your report. Did you know what you were doing and did you write it? So always go to somebody who's actually going to read your report. And don't take it personally if they make, hey, you need to, I think it should go in this direction, just your sentence structure. So I do spend a lot of time with report writing, but obviously know what the law is.
SPEAKER_02Now, Greg, you've actually had to testify in court on report writing.
SPEAKER_00Yes, yes, I did.
SPEAKER_02And uh based on that particular case or uh any other number of cases where that occurred, what are some of the lessons learned?
SPEAKER_00Keep your emotions intact. First of all, know what you're doing. Do you have enough to detain this individual? Reasonable suspicion that you think the individual is possibly involved in criminal activity. Did you, which we don't go over municipal codes? Do you have enough for a municipal code violation? If you do, they're being detained. They don't have to identify themselves, but if they don't, now you can place them under arrest because they're not cooperating with your ticket or they're going to sign it. And now, incident to arrest, now you can conduct a search. Uh but definitely you're going to get individuals that are going to poke you and say some things that you probably weren't accustomed to. You have to keep those emotions in check. And obviously, on that particular incident, it was not.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_00And uh it just led it just escalated where it could have just back up, reanalyzed, saying, okay, what do I have here? Do I have enough to do anything? And does he have to say anything to me? And I'll wait another day. Why go in this direction when you have no legal basis to do what you're doing? And that's what with the academy, obviously with defensive tactics, you guys focus in on that, which is great. Saying, hey, you get all over them, but they have to keep it in check. And as you know, you've probably had some recruits that when you approach them and you said some things, you could tell this was not gonna go well and we need to work on this. And we have to focus that on the field, that they're gonna say some very nasty things to you, but you're better than that. But you also have to know what you're doing is is it lawful?
SPEAKER_02Not everybody knows. Not everybody knows, unfortunately. No, um, and ego plays a huge role. That ego, that ego can be a problem. Yes. Now, um, you know, as we kind of summarize, um, Greg, what are some of the um advice, since you've been teaching recruits for so long, uh some of the things that recruits should stay away from or things that would help them be successful, not just in the academy, but in their career?
SPEAKER_00Uh get along with your coworkers. Oh. Get along with your co-workers. Is that easy, Greg? It is not because we are a very type A personality profession. Uh and just listen. You don't need to start your sentences with I all the time. Just just listen. And just nod your head. Uh good communication skills. Try to be encouraging to everybody on that end. Uh another big one is which because we have the uh general uh the primaries coming up, know your where your agency and who you're voting for, because they have a huge impact on you personally. What's going on outside this has nothing to do with you the majority of the time. But who is going to help your agency when it comes to raises? What's the medical? Are we going to cut down the medical? Uh what type of raises are we getting? Are we getting pensionable raises or just raises? San Diego PD does very good on pensionable raises, which means it's going to stay with you for the rest of your life.
SPEAKER_02Yes.
SPEAKER_00Raises only while you're working. And what is the individuals who are running for office within your agency's uh district? What are they saying with law enforcement? What are they going to do? We need officers, we want to get their benefits. And another one I try to tell the recruits when you get your pay stuff, that's that's a very important document to study. What are you getting? What are your raises? What's your 401k like? Deferred comp. Can you purchase years of service? If you can purchase years of service on your department, you should take out a loan and buy years of service because you're getting it at that particular pay scale, and you're buying years of service. So when you retire, so I definitely I spend a lot of time with that. And uh and the day the pension uh is is gonna be gone except for law enforcement. Even the military's looking at 401ks. This, that, that pension is going to be with you for the rest of your life. With that in mind, you got to stay healthy. And the way you got to stay healthy is mental is everything. If you're mentally together, physical, you're gonna be okay. But you've got to, if you're having any issues on a on a on a mental, seek help because all of our departments are there. They're going to be there, but and do not be bashful or what go and seek the help that you have. And you've got to, and the only one that's gonna take care of you is you. And you've got to start to realize where you're at, what do you want, what age, what sp uh specific units do you want to go to. So if you want to go to gang suppression team, you should probably go to an area where there are what? There are gang contacts. You want to go to narcotics, you definitely go to a certain area, but you've got to start looking. But the big thing is you got to get along with your workers, your coworkers, and you got to show up on time. And you don't know everything other than that.
SPEAKER_02We don't know everything. Um, you know, you brought up the whole point about wellness and mental wellness, especially. Um there are a lot of us that see a lot of different things, and we're not okay, and we don't talk to anybody about them.
SPEAKER_00We need to be more open with that. I don't because of our profession, because we're type A personalities, that's that's an issue. But we definitely need to focus more on that. Uh I think we do a very good job at the Academy. But once they're done with the Academy, I we need to start being more prevalent, more present, like in roll calls or lineups, uh, to go and needs to be addressed. Uh because if you're not there mentally, you're a safety for yourself and then for others. And then it can it just it's a slippery slope, it just goes down, and there's nothing positive that's going to come out of it. But if you see it or if you see somebody, you know, say something. Say something that uh what what you have, and and that's about all I got on that.
SPEAKER_02Greg, thank you for being here. Yeah, appreciate you, brother. All right, thank you. Thank you. Thank you for watching, everybody. If you are struggling, please uh reach out to somebody, talk to somebody, 988 copline. If you need uh confidential uh counseling, copline provides peace officers that will uh that are experienced and trained in talking to you and helping you through rough times. We want to end this episode with our brother in law in uh our brother in law enforcement, our brother in um Christ, Greg Adminson. He's gonna say a uh prayer for everybody that is on duty, going on duty, and for all of us in law enforcement. Thank you for watching.
SPEAKER_01We come before you with gratitude for the brave men and women who have answered the sacred call to protect and serve. You said in Romans 13, verse 4, that the one in authority is God's servant for your good. Lord, we thank you for every officer who stands the line. We thank you for every officer who runs toward the sound of danger when others run away. We thank you, God, for every officer who brings order out of chaos, and who seeks justice with compassion. Father, as warriors in a fallen world, we draw our strength from you. Your word declares in Psalm one hundred forty four verse one, Blessed be the Lord my rock, who trains my hands for war, my fingers for every battle. Train our hands, Lord, not only for the battles of the street, but for the battles within. Give us courage when fear whispers, give us patience when tempers rise, grant us wisdom when decisions must be made in an instant. Lord, we ask for your divine protection over every officer in the field. Surround them with your angels as a shield, as you promised in Psalm ninety-one, and let your peace guard their heart and mind in Christ Jesus. When they grow weary, remind them that those who hope in the Lord will renew their strength, they will soar on wings like eagles. Almighty God, you are our strength, you are our shield, you are our ever present help in times of trouble. Father, when the day's work is done, bring them home safely. Restore their spirit, renew their joy, and remind them that they do not fight this battle alone. For you go before them, you go beside them, you are with them. In the mighty name of Jesus Christ, our commander and king. Amen.