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Hidden in Plain Sight: Recognizing Human Trafficking Through a Survivor's Eyes
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Natasha was just 19 years old when she was deceived, kidnapped at gunpoint, and forced into the world of human trafficking. In this powerful episode, Natasha shares her firsthand experience of survival, the psychological manipulation used by traffickers, and the long road to recovery and justice. She also discusses her appearance on America’s Most Wanted, which helped lead to the capture of her trafficker, and her ongoing work educating law enforcement agencies across the country.
For police officers, investigators, and first responders, this conversation provides invaluable insight into victim behavior, trauma bonding, coercive control, and the indicators that trafficking victims often display during police contacts. Natasha’s story serves as a reminder that every interaction matters and that understanding the victim’s perspective can make the difference between a missed opportunity and a life saved.
🎯 Whether you're a first responder, military, or someone interested in becoming a law enforcement officer—this conversation will move you, challenge you, and inspire you.
👇 Drop a comment with your favorite takeaway, and remember to subscribe if you want more real conversations like this.
#podcast #resilient ##cops #policeofficer #motivation #lawenforcement #deputy #police #lawenforcementofficer #policechief #policewoman #gangs #prison #mexicanmafia #humantraffickingawareness
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It was like the worst beating I had ever seen. Like he was gonna kill her. Not like intentionally, like I want to kill her, but it was going to kill her if he if he kept going. And the only reason why it stopped was the knock on the door. So she's there, she's there, and I'm just like, oh my god, like I think I think I'm gonna jump out this window. Human trafficking does not discriminate, it touches everybody. They don't have to just go choose at the bus stop or the shelters anymore. Social media has allowed us to serve our children up on a platter.
SPEAKER_02Welcome everybody. This is Line Up with Fit PD. And I'm your host, Juan Cefas. You know, this podcast is about truth, perspective, and looking behind the curtain. Today's guest is gonna provide a perspective that we usually do not think about. As a 19-year-old young woman, she was kidnapped and brought into a world of human trafficking. She is a survivor, and her story is now shared with thousands of people. She helps potential victims and victims. In addition to that, she also helps train law enforcement personnel. Um, she trains them in understanding what a victim of human trafficking is going through so that they can make a better connection and conduct a better investigation. In addition to that, she also provides insight on the criminal aspect of this human trafficking and understanding how criminals recruit young women. Please help me welcome Natasha. Natasha, thank you for being here.
SPEAKER_00Yes, thank you for having me.
SPEAKER_02Yes, um, you know, your story is so valuable because it will help an unknown number of people, not just in law enforcement, which is something that we really do need, but it also reach people that could be at risk or they don't even know they're they're being groomed. Right. And you know, speaking of that, I just want to hear from you more or less, you know, a little bit about right being you know, when you were in high school, um your experience in high school, because you you got uh kidnapped at 19, so it was right be f right after you graduated from high school.
SPEAKER_00Like six months. I was a freshman in college.
SPEAKER_02You were a freshman in college? Yes. So um tell us a little bit about your experience in high school.
SPEAKER_00So I lived um an average life. I had a great mom and dad. Um, I have a brother, and I was involved in school. I was a cheerleader, um a competitive cheerleader on the swim team. Um I was a missionary in Jamaica. We went with our school. Um, I just feel like I had this really great life. No, no trauma to report or anything like that that I think people like to associate sometimes that are only at risk are going to be those that are your vulnerable population. And human trafficking does not discriminate. It touches everybody. There is not one type of demographic that hasn't been touched by this type of criminal behavior.
SPEAKER_02So you're living this normal high school life. Yes. I mean, even better than normal. You're, you know, you're an athlete and um you're doing well and you even go on to college.
SPEAKER_00Yes. Yes. I was in a went to private school my whole life. I, you know, my parents, they love each other. I grew up in a very loving home. My parents would have done anything for me. And I think part of what happened is is being so sheltered. Right. I couldn't see those red flags until it was too late. And that's one thing that we do discuss when people talk about what kind of what kind of parenting environment, right, that can decrease the chances of our child becoming a victim. People, when they hear us say, well, strict parenting can almost increase those chances, right? Because that causes a vulnerability within your child for those predators to look at and say, your parents don't, they're not treating you like the 13-year-old you should be treated like. They should be treating you like an adult. Those kinds of things. I think also when you shelter your children, which by family, they weren't doing it on purpose or anything, but when you are not exposed, you've gone to private school, there's no trauma around me, you see only loving families, the red flags just wouldn't be there for me. I wouldn't have thought, oh, this could be a bad guy ever.
SPEAKER_02So just so that I get it straight, um even living in a loving home make can make you vulnerable to just not being able to identify that somebody actually has bad intentions.
SPEAKER_00Right, right.
SPEAKER_02So too much love can blind you, possibly, into trusting others?
SPEAKER_00Aaron Ross Powell I think it's a I would say there's no such thing as too much love with your children, but I would say that a lack of education.
SPEAKER_04Okay.
SPEAKER_00Right? Yes. Because people have asked me, because I speak in schools, if somebody would have came to your school, right, and had had this, maybe at your church or your youth group, whatever, would you have been able to say this is what that is? And uh while I can't say a hundred percent, do I think maybe I might have made some different choices, like, oh, this sounds like the person that came to our school. This might be that. Even if I just had, even if I continued on with the process, but I just had that in the back of my mind, maybe I would have said, Oh, maybe I don't want to do this. Um, so I think it's it's a matter of education and being informed. But also parents, they need to be able to have these conversations with their children and schools need to be able to have these conversations. And a lot of families and a lot of schools are not ready to have this conversation, right? Because what we hear is that doesn't happen here.
SPEAKER_04Right.
SPEAKER_00When we know for a fact in the organization that that um I work with, we have victims from the very schools where the schools are telling us that doesn't happen here.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_00It happens anywhere. Happens private school kids, public school kids, any color kids.
SPEAKER_02So raising the awareness of young people can help them identify some of the uh potential grooming behaviors.
SPEAKER_00Aaron Powell Yes, yes. Because what happens is we always talk about, we tell our kids, you know, listen to that that that feeling in our stomach, right? When something's not right, right? We use the word intuition. We don't teach them what to do when they start having that feeling. We just say, listen to it. So, in regards to my situation, I was feeling that, right? Right. In my situation, I started feeling that this isn't feeling right. I didn't know what to do. I did I made the decision, the best decision I knew what to do as an a girl who had just turned 19 years old a month before, which was just say I was cold and I needed to go get my jacket. Could I have gone and told somebody, hey, at the restaurant, this doesn't feel right. There's all these other different things I think about that I could have done, but I didn't know, right? And we also, my daughter likes to say, Mom, you know, people aren't as strong as you. But the truth is, is everybody has a voice.
unknownYes.
SPEAKER_00Every single person has a voice. I know they do, because I didn't have a voice and somehow I got a voice.
SPEAKER_02For some parents, it's difficult to talk about the tough topics. Yes. And so as parents, we try to ignore it and hope that everything goes well. But that's not necessarily um as a cop, as a former cop of 30 years, I that's not something that uh I'm willing to risk. I would like to encourage parents to have the tough talks with their children about all the tough topics. Uh, but especially something like this.
SPEAKER_00Yes, you should be speaking to your children about predatory behavior by the time they're going into kindergarten. Age-appropriate language, but by the time they're in kindergarten, they will already start being exposed to things. There are kids who have older brothers and sisters, there are kids who are being abused. These things are going to then happen at school. Words are going to be said, actions are going to be exhibited towards another child. And we want our children to be able to come to us and say, this happened, right? We don't, we had a 11-year-old, so fifth, fifth or sixth grade, where boys were asking girls to go behind the gym and give and give them head. The girl went home and said, you know, to our parents, what does that mean? And the parents told her and she said, Well, boys are asking girls to do that, right? So if we're not having these conversations, what's going to happen is your child's going to say yes to something. They don't even know what they're saying yes to. And then they're going to get in a situation and they're going to realize when it's happening, I don't want to do this, but they're not going to be able to say, I don't want to do this. And they're going to do something they don't want to do. So it's very important to always use the proper language, right? We're not having nicknames for our body. We're using real language. And we're also saying women can be bad guys too.
SPEAKER_02Right. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00Okay, because they're going to be our most trustworthy. Our children are going to trust them before a man. It's natural.
SPEAKER_02Not only natural, Natasha, but I think uh some of us parents, we make the mistake of telling our children, hey, if something happens, go tell a woman. And based on what you just said, you know, that may not necessarily be the right person to tell. Uh because anybody can be a predator.
SPEAKER_00Not only that, but women can be judgmental. And so a lot of times when I'm giving when I'm talking to law enforcement about interviewing, right, it's natural men want to say, let me get a woman in the room. With this type of specific type of victimization, we can feel very judged. And I know this from personal experience, right? Because it's it's a feeling of they wouldn't have done what you did. Cause somehow they're going to be smarter than us, right? Right. Um, and you don't know what to do until you're in that situation. But somehow, sometimes women think they do know what they would have done. And so with my daughter, it was always, or when we're speaking to kids, a trusted adult. Who is that trusted adult for you? Right? Is it your grandma? Is it your grandpa? It doesn't have to be, we don't distinguish between genders. Um, because it's whoever you trust. You know, who is that trusted adult in your life? And that for them to be able to go to that trusted adult could end up saving their life.
SPEAKER_02Now, Natasha, going back to when you were 19 years old, how did this whole thing kind of begin? Because I'm I I mean, I don't want to be ignorant, but I'm thinking that it you were groomed.
SPEAKER_00Yes. So in a way, yes. I mean, I call it scammed. Uh but in a way, yes, I was at the mall and this woman approached me and she had given me a compliment about my makeup and said, you know, did you do your makeup? And at the time, I was 19 years old, so I really did not pay attention to her in the sense that I was shopping, kind of like this lady's talking to me. Do I really care what she has to say? Um, but she did go on to say, you know, giving me compliments and the fashion talking about the fashion industry and stuff like that. So she gives me her card. And so I take her card and then I go about my day, really nothing to make me feel like this is something that's gonna stay in my mind. I was 19. And so I go home, go about my day. And then a few weeks later, I remember I saw her card sitting on uh like my dresser, and I was like, I'll just give her a call. And I called and she said, Oh, I've been waiting for you to call. I said, So what is this all about? She goes, Well, you'll go to this town and you'll, you know, you'll meet the owner of the company and you'll apply for the job like everyone else does. I was like, okay, this sounds cool. And so get off the phone. I'm now scheduled to go to this job interview. And when I walk in, it is set up just like any other office would be. There's nothing, even looking back now, there was nothing, nothing identifying like this is a whole scam setup, right? There's other girls, they're in there. Um, they look similar to me. No one's acting like they're in distress, right? Not that I'm really paying attention to anything like that because I'm so young. And so I go in the back. The girl that I had met at the mall takes me to the back to meet the owner of the company. He looks just like a regular guy. Um, and he starts asking me questions about working. And I said, Well, I've never had a job before. And he, and so I don't know how to fill out this application. Like I don't have an answer for all this, right? I don't have references. And he goes, Oh, that's okay. Just put down your family's personal information. So I said, Okay. And then at the end of the interview, he's just asking me questions. And he says, you know, a lot of people are vying for the job. You're lucky if you get it, type thing. So I left, went about. Now I hadn't even told my parents this because I knew. So where I come from and just the demographic that I was raised in, you go to college. There is no questions asked. Like that is what you do. I had the typical dad and the typical mom where you go to mom first if you want to try to get to dad, type thing.
SPEAKER_04Okay.
SPEAKER_00And so I knew not to tell them anything yet because anything where it wasn't going to school was I knew was already going to be a no. So what I did was is went to the interview and then went home and went about my life. And then a few weeks later, I get a phone call and I've got the job. So now I know I have to tell my parents because I want, I want to do this. Okay. This sounds exciting, right?
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_00Well, I go to my mom first and I was like, hey, and she goes, Your dad's never gonna, never gonna be okay with this.
SPEAKER_02Are you living at home? Yes. Okay. Okay.
SPEAKER_00And she said, you know, you can talk to him. And of course, my dad was like, absolutely not, Natasha. And I said, I'm over 18 and I can do what I want. And so I do remember that day as I backed out of the driveway, my parents were standing at the door, like the on the steps, waving to me goodbye. And I had no idea what my life was about to be.
SPEAKER_02So where do you drive to when you leave your parents' house?
SPEAKER_00A restaurant. So we drive to a restaurant, and or I drive to a restaurant, and we're going over last-minute details, is what I was told. Right? I'm gonna sign some papers, go over some last-minute details because when we were on the phone and she said I got the job, I was asking questions, and she goes, We'll cover all that when we meet at the restaurant.
SPEAKER_04Okay.
SPEAKER_00So I'm like, okay, you know, whatever. So we get to the restaurant and they're acting very weird. Like, very weird.
SPEAKER_02When you say weird, what can you describe it a little bit more?
SPEAKER_00She was being short with me.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_00And he wasn't really talking. And I was like this excited night journal asking all these questions, right? Like, we're gonna go to Chicago, and then what am I gonna do? And it's like we we'll we'll answer all that later. Like it was just, I don't know, these were not the people that I had met.
SPEAKER_04Right.
SPEAKER_00You know, everything was feeling weird. And, you know, I just remember thinking, I don't want to do this. I don't want to do this. And so now what am I gonna do? Right. Because I'm 19, I'm the person I am today would be making a ruckus. Right. But at 19, how do I get out of this situation without alerting anybody? I don't feel uh brave enough to confront them and say, I don't like this. I I'm just a 19-year-old child, really. And so I just said the only thing I thought I could do, which is say, I'm gonna go to my car, I'm cold and I like to get my my sweater out. And they obliged. I mean, they were like, yeah. So I'm walking out of the restaurant and I see this car coming, so I step back up on the curb because it's coming so fast, and before I know it, I'm getting thrown in the back of the car.
SPEAKER_02So the car that was driving fast, they snatched you up. Yes. Let me just back up for a second. In making this decision to walk outside of the business and go to your car to get your jacket or your sweater, um at that time, as you're processing the information, do you still feel that it's an option for you to go back home? That your parents are totally okay with it.
SPEAKER_00I did not start reflecting on anything like that until I was taken to that house, and then I like they he had taken all my clothes off and put me in this back room, and I was kept in this room, and I really don't know, I don't know how many how many days I was in there. But obviously it was enough time for me to start reflecting on things, right? Like my parents were right, and how am I ever gonna get out of this? And if I do, what am I gonna tell them? Um but I think if anyone's ever been in a situation where they think they're going to die, they start thinking about all kinds of things, right? Um and there's what happens during that process is like you're crying, then you're not, you're crying, then you're screaming, then you know, there's all these different emotions going on because you start thinking if I act a certain way, things will change, right? Like if I'm not screaming anymore and I'm not fighting this, is he gonna say, okay, now you can go home? I mean, trafficking is not going on in my head. My my first, what I thought was is they're gonna rape me and then they're gonna kill me, right? Like that's the only thing really you would think about at that, at that time. So I just was like, what, you know, every day, is that the day that they were gonna kill me? I I don't know, right? Because I don't really know what's happening at this point. They're not really like, nobody's communicating anything to me until when I finally, well, I don't finally realize it's human trafficking. He comes in and he he picks me up and he takes me to the other end of the house where I get introduced to who we who I will eventually know as the bottom bitch who is um in in the life. That's the girl who's been there the longest, most likely his girlfriend.
SPEAKER_04Okay.
SPEAKER_00And they stay in the same room together. So, but all I know is I'm being taken to this woman and he's telling her to get me cleaned up. And uh he tells her to to tell me how I will address him from now on, which is to call him daddy. So again, I don't know anything going on. But they did make me, they never said it, but they led me to believe I'd be able to go home if I just did what they asked of me.
SPEAKER_04Okay.
SPEAKER_00But they never said that. So what I believed, I believed that's what they were saying. And do I believe they did that intentionally? Yes. Because I was much more, I went more with it when I finally felt like I was gonna be able to go home. I wasn't because I once I was like with the woman, I was like asking lots of questions and I was crying and she, you know, she was being very nurturing to me and got me cleaned up, got me in the shower and got me cleaned up, and then pulled out this box and told me what I would be doing. It had condoms and stuff in it. And if I just have sex with this person, then I can go home. Now they never said then I can go home, but that is what I truly felt they were saying to me.
SPEAKER_04Okay.
SPEAKER_00And so I get cleaned up, and then Spider, my trafficker, he takes me to this other uh this other location. So he had a he had two houses and he had um like a townhome, like a condo. And he takes me to this other location and he's telling me on the way there, you know, you just you just do as we say, you just do as we say, and everything's gonna be okay. You know, everything's gonna be okay. I promise you. You won't you won't be upset for much longer. So he takes me into this condo, into one of his locations, and he tells me to go upstairs. So I go upstairs, and there's a man laying there. And just to understand my like my high school experience, I lost my virginity to my high school boyfriend, and we did not have sex until we had graduated high school. So I was not like this super experienced person, whatsoever. So this man's laying there, and now I'm supposed to have sex with him. And what's interesting is he looks at me and he can clearly see I am like distraught with this whole situation. I wasn't crying, but this was not somebody who walks and is like, oh, hey, yeah, I totally know what's going on right now. Just give me your money, right? He's like, the money is on the nightstand, and you know, I'm just looking at him like, now what do I do? Right. And he looks at me and he says, I'm sorry, I wish I could help you. So, and then proceeds to have sex with me. So you're not sorry, you don't wish you could. Help me, you obviously see that I'm upset about something. You know, you may not know the whole situation. Obviously, you know something's wrong. You don't care. So I do that. I walk downstairs. Spider takes me and gets me in the car. So I'm thinking I can go, I can go home now, right?
SPEAKER_02So spider was waiting for you downstairs. Downstairs. Okay. Yes.
SPEAKER_00So we get in the car and I'm I say to him, Do I get, you know, do I get to go home now? And he looks at me and he says, Bitch, you're never going home. So in those moments, I realized I'd try and run away. So how was I gonna run away? Right? Now I gotta figure this out. I'm a 19-year-old girl that like I I have not been exposed to to anything traumatic in in her life. I I mean mostly I would say when I was a missionary in Jamaica, that was uh that was a lot to see for a young 15-year-old girl, but nothing that was the only thing that I'd ever been exposed to.
SPEAKER_02That was not this normal. Did you have as you get in the car, do you have any idea of what part of town you're in?
SPEAKER_00Yes, I well, I I didn't know like exactly the road we were on, but I would I knew so we were I was kept about two hours away from my parents' house. Okay. So I knew the vicinity.
SPEAKER_04Okay.
SPEAKER_00And um, but I also knew I didn't I didn't give a fuck if I was didn't know where I was at. I needed I needed to try and run away. Right. So I was quiet the whole way back to the house. And I walk in the house and I see that there's another girl in there. And so I I go up to her and I ask her, Do you want to run away with me tonight? Because I think everybody's in this situation.
unknownRight.
SPEAKER_00Right. There's nothing in my mind that thinks what I eventually know to be the game, like any of the seniority, this loyalty to daddy, all of it. I don't know any of this at this point, right? I think we're all just here against our will. So she says no, and I get put back in my room.
SPEAKER_02Is it locked?
SPEAKER_00No, no, not anymore. Not anymore. Because there was there was like a you know, like a latch? Yeah, like a thing where you could put the lock through.
SPEAKER_04Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_00It was there was no longer a lock through it. They could put the lock on if they wanted to, but it wasn't anymore.
SPEAKER_04Okay.
SPEAKER_00So I was just in the room. I mean, what am I gonna do at that point? You know what I mean? So I get put back in the room, and I don't know, some time passes, and then the bot the bottom bitch comes in and says, Daddy wants to talk to you, and she hands me the phone. I'm like, okay. And he says, Hey, I hear you you want to go home. And I said, Yes. And he goes, You know what? I'm gonna take you home. He goes, This isn't for you. I'm gonna take you home. Have have Shiva bring you out. And I'm like, really? And he's like, Yeah. So Shiva brings me out to his car. Well, it's a Lincoln Navigator, and we get in and we're driving. And I'm like, okay, like I'm gonna go home. And I'm telling him, I'm not gonna tell anybody. Do I think I was? I don't even know. I just need to get out of that situation. As I'm processing as where the way he's driving, I know that we weren't going to my parents' house. I'm realizing this. But as I realize it, I his hand goes across the center console and he's like literally lifting me up off the seat and he's like strangling me and he's screaming at me and he's like, You want to go home, bitch? You want to go home? You're snow bunny, you're not going home, like crazy, crazy yelling at me. And then I I pass out. And then wake up and he's pulling me out of the out of his navigator, and I'm on the ground, and he's just, he's just kicking me, kicking me really bad. So I'm like in this fetal position, and I'm I mean, I'm crying, I'm screaming, please stop, please stop, I'll listen to you, whatever. And then I pass out. I don't remember anything after that. And then I wake up and I'm out in the middle of this area, and there's nobody.
SPEAKER_02You're by yourself.
SPEAKER_00Yes. So I'm like, okay, you know, what's I'm trying to understand what's happening, right? Like my body is hurting. I like there's all sorts of issues going on with my body at this point.
SPEAKER_04Okay.
SPEAKER_00And I see this car coming, and as as it comes, I realize it's him. And so he gets out and he, I am like, I'm on the ground, and I'm just like, you know, uh helpless. And he looks down at me and he goes, Do you want to go home now? And I said, No. And he picked me up and put me in the car and we drove back to the house.
SPEAKER_02What do you think would have happened if you said yes?
SPEAKER_00I mean, I just knew better not to. What do you what are you talking about?
SPEAKER_02No, yeah, no, what but uh what I'm just wondering if at this point had other than you know, using the um uh physical force, had he threatened you with any f uh like firearms or like how did he terrorize you other than what you've described so far?
SPEAKER_00Well before all that, he was having he was coming into the room, when the room I was kept in before I was introduced to Shiva.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_00And doing things to me.
SPEAKER_02Okay. So he was already terrorizing you, getting into your mind.
SPEAKER_00Mm-hmm. Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_00And that wasn't even like my punishment for trying to run away. That horrible things happened after that. And then we started stalking my younger brother at school and my parents at their jobs. Um, and he would tell me this is how easy it'd be for me to kill them if you ever try and leave. So we would stalk my own family and he would have gone, he would have a gun in the car and he would blame it on me.
SPEAKER_02So he'd drive you around so that you can envision how easily he could have access to your family.
SPEAKER_00Yes, because that was my vulnerability.
unknownYes.
SPEAKER_00So what we talk about in the tra what I call the traffic the traffickers for formula is they identify your vulnerability, right? And then they provide it the vulnerability, and then they exploit that vulnerability. So, right, he identified, he was smart, it was my family. He identified that, right? And then he exploited it, and then later on he becomes my family. He provides that family, that family I no longer have, right? He becomes that for me.
SPEAKER_02So after you get back in the car, where do you go?
SPEAKER_00He takes me back to the house. And what happens in the days to come I don't know any other better word but to say he trains me. Right? I'm watching um a lot of shows on on pimping, a lot of documentaries on pimp, a lot of pimping music and learning the game, learning the rules, because there's a lot of rules in the life that you need to follow so you don't get your ass beat and the seniority of it, right? All all of these things you have to you're taking somebody who has never been in the criminal world, and now I have uh not only do I have to be in it, but I have to participate in it. So I'm not just observing, I am a full-on participant. And so, you know, it took some time for me because he he would even tell Sheba, you need to talk to her about how she runs her mouth to me. So even then, knowing the horrific things that had happened to me, I would ask questions. I'd say, why? I would want to know. I'd want to understand what was happening to me because I didn't understand it. It's so that life is so foreign to me. Well, it was so foreign to me.
SPEAKER_02Now, you mentioned uh, Natasha, that there were some rules. What what are what were some of the rules that uh were implemented?
SPEAKER_00So in the life, there's things like seniority, right? You're all wifey-in-laws to each other, but there's there's seniority. So the bottom bitch who's been there the longest, most likely, like I said, is his girlfriend sleeps with him in his room. Like if we're in a car, right? She's gonna be in the front seat. The girl who's been there the second longest is gonna be behind him, and then so forth, so forth, as well as the house. So, like they stayed in the house, they were in this room, then there was a girl in this room who'd been there the second longest, the girl right here who'd been the third, and then I was in this room. And then if you were in the other houses, you hadn't been there as long.
unknownOkay.
SPEAKER_00And also because he grouped us, um, so the girls that were in his house were the platinum collection. So we were the ones who were gonna make him his most money. So we were called we were called red carpet hoes. So we were high class escorts. Some of the girls in the other house worked the club. So it just was a matter, I mean, it's a full-on business, right? And um, you know, rules like you are not to make eye contact with any other African American man. So your head is down at all times when you're in public. If you do make eye contact with another African American man, you're choosing up. Meaning, um, if you know you're my trafficker and I make contact with this other guy, now I can be with him. But out of respect for the game, he's gonna give you some money and some roses. And now I'm willfully his. So I mean, there's all there's all kinds of rules that go with that, even to how you have sex with a client, because you're his pro you're the trafficker's property, right? So you're you can have you can have sex in a certain way with him, but you are only to have sex a certain way with a client because all they are is a client. So there was no, you know, what's called GFE, there's no girlfriend experience. Like you're not kissing these clients. You're always using protection. Um, and you're only doing one position where you can maintain control of all that, right? Um, so you know, no drinking, no doing drugs. And we had a quota we had to meet every night and leave that money in an envelope on his nightstand every n every day we got home.
SPEAKER_02Um, what was the quota?
SPEAKER_00It was different for all the girls.
SPEAKER_02Okay, so everybody had a different quota. Wow. And um how long are you at this house or do you move to other homes?
SPEAKER_00I never leave that house. I was rewarded with a bed when um I showed him how loyal I was going to be. Because there's what we call a turning point, right? So I'm never going home at this point. I can't go back home. I'm told, you know, your family doesn't love you. You can't go back home. Look at the things you've done, right? Like you're a prostitute. You've done all these horrific things, nobody's ever gonna want you, all these other things. So I truly, there is a point where you believe all this because that is true. How am I supposed to go back and what go live this normal life when this is all this stuff has been happening to me? And so you come to a point where you accept the life that you're in, like what, what you're what you're about to do. And you either get with it or you don't. And if you're not with it, it's a struggle even more. So you you choose to be like, okay, I like I I I gotta I gotta figure something out because I can't keep living like this because you're I'm getting my ass beat all the time, right? I'm having horrible things happen to me because I'm not I'm not understanding it, I'm not getting it. So I needed to get it and I needed to get it fast. And there, you know, became a point where it was either you or me, and it was never gonna be me anymore. And so uh we were the turning point for me to prove my loyalty was another girl had chosen up, chose different pimp.
SPEAKER_04Okay.
SPEAKER_00And there was this local place that all the girls worked out of. And so I was in the car waiting for one of the girls who was inside working, and there was another girl in the car with me. We see the girl who had chosen up, we see her pull up behind us, and she's getting out. And I tell the girl, hey, let me out. And I get out of the car and I just go and start beating this girl's ass in the parking lot until her pimp gets out and starts beating mine, but I don't even care because I'm beating her ass because I I already know, I already know what I'm supposed to be doing. Like I didn't need anybody to tell me. This is me proving my loyalty, this is how we're gonna do it. So finally, you know, her pimp, you know, takes me out. I get back in the car, she goes into her appointment, he drives off, and the girl who was in the car with me says, Daddy wants to talk to you. So I was like, You call daddy? She's like, Yeah. So I get on the phone, and I will never ever forget how happy I made him that day. I could hear him smiling. And I knew I got it. I got it now.
SPEAKER_02So at that point, how did things turn around for you? Or what does he do in return?
SPEAKER_00He trusts me. Um you know, I was able to recruit girls.
SPEAKER_02Okay, so now he I don't know if it's the right word, promotes you to recruiter.
SPEAKER_00I mean, yeah, because he he trusted me. Because now I mean I'm fully in the life now. Like there is no there's no hope I'm gonna get to go home.
SPEAKER_04Okay.
SPEAKER_00There's no hope, like I remember looking out of the window and you know, because we were kept in a neighborhood and seeing like a school bus and kids riding bikes and being like that will never be my life. I will never have this life. Like, Natasha, you have to get rid of that, that the ideology, like it's never gonna work for you. Accept where you're at and that you're going to die doing this. And that's what survival is. I don't want to die. Yeah, so I'm going to do everything I have to do, so I don't die today. And so, you know, again, when I tell you girls can be bad guys, there were girls who believed everything I said. And, you know, that's hard for people to hear. I've been saying it to my daughter since she was little before she'd go in the restroom and say, remember, girls can be bad guys too. And I would have women look at me. And I know the truth to that. Because I know I know that I could go get any girl right now. I could go recruit any girl. I we're we're taught as a society to profile what a bad guy is. And trafficking uses women mostly to recruit. They send their girls in in jail, they send their girls in into the shelters, they send the girls into the mall. I mean, that's how we were able to to get the girl that I ended up being rescued with. She was working at at the mall and she wanted to be a model, and you know, we were able to provide that what that looks like for her.
SPEAKER_02Now, let me just uh back up a little bit, uh Natasha, um, and create a scenario. So, for instance, when he had beaten you and you were on the ground, and then he drove back up and put you in the car, uh, let's say the police drove up because they got a call of some kind of disturbance and they have no idea what's going on. Right. And you're now in this state of mind where you are buying into this lifestyle and this person's got you brainwashed. What kind of uh questions should cops be asking and what should they be looking for? Because, you know, this disturbance, it comes out as a disturbance, but it could be anything, and it could be what happened to you. So if we want to jump ahead, cops need to know what questions to ask and what to look for.
SPEAKER_00So what's interesting is my my interaction with law enforcement was a few times when he had when he was trying to kill uh the girl I ended up being rescued with. We were at a very nice hotel and there was a knock at the door, and he had me go get the door, and it was held to security, and they asked zero questions and all they said is will you please turn down the TV? Right. And at that moment, we could have all been saved in there. And um, even with being arrested, I was arrested twice. And when we had both times they asked me about my pimp.
SPEAKER_04Okay.
SPEAKER_00And I did not talk. They both had very, very diff different tactics. Um one was very threatening. One department was very threatening about it. Like if you, if you, if you don't do this, then you're gonna go to jail. You're gonna go to jail for this. And I and I had already been arrested. Um and I didn't understand what they were saying. I I didn't understand what was happening, like, but I don't understand why why why would I be going to jail? Like I didn't do anything, right?
SPEAKER_04Right.
SPEAKER_00Um, and then the second time we were in a undercover operation, we were arrested for prostitution, myself, the bottom bitch, and a new girl. And there were so many of us like in this operation that we were all being just like let out of this hotel and all like just with zip ties. Cause I mean, that's the only way they could gather us. And out of this whole line of all these girls, I get pulled out of line. And he goes, just tell me you're a pimpus. And I was like, sir, if you do not put me back in line, I'm gonna get killed. It looks like I'm snitching right now. I said, please, please put me back in line. And this is the thing, I remember that man to this day. I could tell you what he looked like. And I felt I could feel him and I knew he cared. And I knew he was like, I can help you. I was like, you've got to put me back in line. You don't understand what you're doing to me. Please put me back in line. So he puts me back in line, and we go, we all go back to the station, we get put in jail. And this particular jail offers some types of vaccines. And the new girl says, Oh, uh, I want it. Whether she was getting the vaccine or not, whatever she was up to, she leaves and the bottom bitch gets on the phone and right away says, Julia's talking. So she didn't get bonded out with us. I don't even know what happened to her, but she wasn't bonded out with us. But um Spider left her there. And whether she got the vaccine or not, you know, I mean, she came back with a bandaid on her arm. So I but at the end of the day, you you just keep your mouth shut.
SPEAKER_02So this woman that went and got the vaccine, she eventually came back?
SPEAKER_00She came back in and had a band-aid on.
SPEAKER_02And did Spider treat her any differently?
SPEAKER_00She just wasn't bonded out. Like we she she never came back with us. Like she never came back to our state. Well, it's called a stable to the family. She was no longer part of anything.
SPEAKER_02So she was on her own. Right. So she basically could just go back home. Who I I don't I think.
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_02Right. Okay. Uh I was just trying to get that straightened out in my mind. But um the tactics of threatening somebody sounds to me like we're just re-victimizing the victim.
SPEAKER_00I don't think that's the way it's happened. I don't think it's on purpose.
SPEAKER_02Yes.
SPEAKER_00Um I think part of the problem is that when you're coming into contact with girls that are victims of human trafficking, a lot of times they're very street. Right? Don't fucking talk to me, fuck you, that kind of stuff, right?
SPEAKER_03Right.
SPEAKER_00You guys hear that day in, day out. Are you really gonna want to take the time to listen to her? Do you know what I mean? She doesn't trust you. You don't trust her, you see this every day, right? Because as a society, we focus on the behaviors and not what causes those behaviors.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_00Okay. So it's about understanding that everybody has a story and on how they got there. And if you're looking at a girl and you know, all you see is a criminal, that's why we act like one, because that's all we are. So if how we see ourselves is how you're treating us, why would there why would it be any different? Why would I give you any other anything else but what you're treating me as?
SPEAKER_02So if I treat you as a victim, what questions should I ask?
SPEAKER_00So you never want to say victim, right? Because we don't see ourselves as a victim.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_00Right. But you want to say things like, is there any help I can give you? Do you need any help? Do you feel safe where you're at? Do you feel safe in your life where you're at? Right. Something that could be a general statement that sounds like you're probably gonna ask anybody that, right?
SPEAKER_04Okay.
SPEAKER_00Because the second you start saying the word victim or you're directing anything that sounds like that, they're going to completely shut down and they're gonna go off on you. I'm not a I'm not a fucking victim, that kind of stuff, right?
SPEAKER_04Okay.
SPEAKER_00Trafficking can look like domestic violence because that's all we're trained to see, right? And if they're arguing over money, that is a huge identifier that it's it's probably trafficking, right? It's not your normal typical marriage where you're fighting over money, right? It's about um what what are you guys fighting about over the money? Well, I'm not making enough. Well, how are you not making enough? You know, those kinds of things.
SPEAKER_04Right.
SPEAKER_00Right. Um, because I don't see a good, healthy, loving husband arguing why you're not making enough money. And then us getting in some type of physical altercation, right? Um and so it's things like that. It's it's just asking follow-up questions, right? Even this is the thing. It's natural to not want to deal with them, right? If they don't want to talk, okay, I'm moving on. Like I have a hundred calls I have to I have to answer right now. Like I'm moving on. You don't want the help. There's plenty of people who do, right?
SPEAKER_04Right.
SPEAKER_00And so it's about asking more questions, but then also not having that judgment behind it, right? I trafficking is so unique because they are committing crimes. Right now, the way the laws are is they are still committing crimes, right? And luckily that is changing because there are organizations that help you clear your record. There are um states are starting and federally to recognize that it we still call it, you know, committing crimes under duress, but they are really trying to change that to what's called forced criminality, right? Because you're doing things because there's consequences if you don't.
SPEAKER_04Correct.
SPEAKER_00And you may not know those consequences as the officer who's coming into contact with me. I know those consequences. I'm not telling you those consequences. I need you to just do what you need to do, take me to jail, shut the fuck up, so I can get back out and go keep doing what I'm doing. Because I the whatever those consequences are for me, they're way more severe than whatever I'm gonna deal with with you.
SPEAKER_02So um if you're talking to a group of cops, um what else do you want cops to be able to do at that initial step of coming in contact with a um group of people that possibly are being human uh trafficked?
SPEAKER_00In order to be able to ask follow-up questions, right? We have to care.
unknownOkay.
SPEAKER_00But it's hard to care when we're so jaded by our job because we deal with shitty people every day, correct?
SPEAKER_02Correct.
SPEAKER_00So how do you do that? How do you take somebody who's so jaded by their job and try to convince them? I promise you this is a victim. I know she's not acting like it. She hates you, she's cussing you out, she's kicking and screaming along the way. How how do we all be how can we all come together collectively, right? And I think that's why it's so important. What's interesting when I think about policing and what it was when I started doing this to what it is now, right? Um how having bringing people in who specialize with the behavior of trafficking victims, because trafficking is a proactive policing situation. They are not calling the police asking for help.
SPEAKER_04Correct.
SPEAKER_00And policing has always been reactive. You guys are there to respond, right? It's why I love task forces because it's proactive. I'm not I'm not worried about getting all these survival sex workers off the street because they're just gonna keep being there tomorrow. I'm gonna find another five, another 10, right? Or online, I'm gonna keep finding more. I want to take down the organization. And in order to do that, we need proact proactive policing. And the only way to do that is to have a human trafficking task force and to go after them. And so it's it's a very different policing approach, but policing has changed because I've seen it be proactive in other ways. You guys have other task forces where you guys are very proactive, right? But it's focusing on things like this. And trafficking has changed immensely. It's not just sex trafficking now, where the pimps are, you know, prostituting the girls. They're now using them to commit a lot of crimes, especially like bank fraud, credit card fraud, deal drugs. They're using them for other things now because the economy does dictate how much money you're gonna make in the criminal world. When the economy is going great, there's extra money to spend on sex drugs. When there's not, these girls are having to go fine. It used to be if you're not making money off the internet or or on the streets, you're gonna go work in the club. You're gonna go strip because at least you're making something, right? Now, if you're not making any money in that capacity because the economy is not doing well, I need you to be go committing these other things. And how are we gonna get money? We're gonna go commit some fraud. We're gonna go, we're gonna send you into the bank and you're gonna open up a fraudulent account. You're gonna try and cash this fraudulent check, you're gonna try and get this fraudulent credit card open. That's how, that's how we're gonna do it. And so we're seeing all these things now, these crimes within crimes. And so it's expanded the need for human trafficking expertise. It's not just we need you now for human trafficking task force, we need you now for our narcotics task force, we need you now for surveillance units because we're looking, we're looking at this crime, but now we think we're seeing trafficking within it. So it's a it's expanded because at the end of the day, um trafficking, even for gangs, you know, it's a it's a high profit, low risk type of situation, doesn't put you out there on the street level, right? Especially with the gangs getting into the OnlyFans and the filming of pornography and stuff like that. So there's all these, it's just really expanded. It's not just what we think human trafficking is anymore. And my expertise has has been needed in all these other task forces and all these other unit um law enforcement units because it's happening now. It doesn't matter what crime we're seeing, somehow we're finding trafficking in it. And with district attorney's offices, it's it's the craziest thing because I used to always be used for we need you to help prove that this is a victim of trafficking, right? That was always my my job. That's what I was told. You need to prove this the victim of trafficking. Now criminals have realized that is a great defense, and now I'm being asked to prove that they are not victims of trafficking. And they're getting off on this defense. So now I'm getting brought in to say, hey, uh you're not a victim of trafficking, and I'm gonna tell you why you're not a victim of trafficking, and I'm gonna tell a jury too. So it's just what's so crazy is when I started doing this like 15 years ago, I really thought that at this point in my life it just this wouldn't even be a thing. Not only is it still a thing, it's now expanded into other criminal enterprises and other criminal behaviors. It's all it's all a nexus now. And especially with organized crime and the gangs, they're not idiots. The return on investment is amazing because with guns and drugs, I have to continually, if I give you if you buy a gun for me, I have to get money from you to go buy more guns. I give you a girl, you have sex with her, you give me money, I get that girl back. So my return on investment is very, very high.
SPEAKER_02So it's become a lot more sophisticated uh in expanding into other criminal um into other crimes.
SPEAKER_00Yes, they're they're very much with uh the online stuff, the online pornography, like the OnlyFans, the webcam girls, uh Pornhub still has no oversight, so you can be uploading anything you want there. Um so it's again, it's behind closed doors.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_00So I'm I can make a ton of money off off of these girls.
SPEAKER_02Now, um, Natasha, you um at some point you decide or something happens where you end up leaving Spider or getting out of that life.
SPEAKER_00Yes.
SPEAKER_02How does that happen?
SPEAKER_00So the girl, one of the girls, it was Shiva, myself, and the girl, and we were we were in New York and we had gone over to Spider's hotel. I now know from re reading the police report that she had asked if she could go home. She could go home.
SPEAKER_04Okay.
SPEAKER_00At the time I didn't know what she had asked him because we were we're told to like just stand and and and watch him beat the girls. And he started beating her, but it was like the worst beating I had ever seen. Like he was gonna kill her. Not like intentionally, like I want to kill her, but it was going to kill her if he if he kept going. And the only reason why it stopped was the knock on the door. And she had been screaming because he was holding her by the neck and like flinging her like this around, like a ragdoll. And she was screaming, Daddy, Daddy, please stop, please stop. And then there was a knock at the door, and then that's when I was told to go get the door. And then we left with this girl back to our hotel. And Shiva had to go to an appointment. And sh this girl was, I had her in the bathroom and I was getting her cleaned up, and she was crying and asking me, please, please don't leave me. And I said, if I don't leave, daddy's gonna know. I I have to go to this appointment. And she was like, But if you leave, I'm gonna die. And I said, I don't, I don't, I don't know what to do. I don't know what to do right now. I said, all I know is I have to leave. And she was just screaming, just please don't leave, please don't leave me. And I said, I let's call somebody. And there had been a client that her and I knew that we had met in New York. He was a this sounds crazy, but he was a nice man. And I felt like we could call him. We both did. And I said, I'll call him on the way to the hair appointment that Spider has me or Daddy has me going to, which is all the way in Brooklyn. And she was like, Okay. And so I get in the car that's taking me to Brooklyn, and I call him and I said, Hey, I I can't have you ask any questions, but I need you to go to this hotel in this hotel room and get her. And he's like, Why? And I said, She's been beat up. And he goes, beat up by who? And I said, our boss. And he goes, What do you mean by your boss? And I said, Please don't ask any questions and please just go get her. So, you know, that was that weird conversation. So I get to the hair appointment, and this woman knows Spider. So I need to act completely normal. And I already know, since I had called, it was gonna be a mistake. I already knew it. I already knew it. And so she's starting to do my hair, and I see that the client is calling me and I need to get this, right? So I go to the restroom and answer the phone, and he goes, Hey, can you tell me again what you told me earlier on the phone? And I'm like, You fucking idiot. Like, right, that's what I'm thinking, right?
SPEAKER_04Right.
SPEAKER_00And I said, you know, he goes, What do you mean you guys can't leave, but you're not like chained up? And I said, I don't know how to explain it to you, but we can't leave. But no, we are not chained up. And he said, So she's at this hotel. And I said, Yes, please, you have to go get her. She's going to die. And he goes, you know, you I was telling him, you can't call the police. Whatever you do, you can't call the police. And he goes, if I can't call the police, who am I supposed to call? And I was quiet. And then I said, call my parents. And so that was the end of our conversation. Now I know, I know now that what he had done after our first phone call was went straight to the fucking police after I told him not to. And then the police were like, sir, you sound like a crazy man.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_00Like, what do you mean? These girls, someone's beat up, someone's dying, they can't leave. Like, you know, what is this? So they made him call me to hear me actually say, Yes, like, this is what's happening. And so, um, but I don't know this at the time. So I go back and I get back in the chair and she's doing my hair, and then I hear her knock at the door. And I'm like, it's spider. I know it is. He knows. He knows. So I hear her, like the floor is creaking, and I hear her, and then I hear her stop, right? But I can't see anything going on. I can't hear anything going on. Cause it's a long ass hallway. And all I'm thinking is, there's a window right here. It's a second story. I'm just gonna jump out. And if I die, I die. But like he's he's going to kill me. Like that's it. Like my life is over right now. So she's there, she's there. And I'm just like, oh my God, like I think I think I'm gonna jump out this window. She comes back and she goes, There's someone at the door for you. And I'm like, it's him. And I remember getting up out of the chair, kind of backing up towards the window, like, I'm gonna jump out of this window, and then not doing it. And she's like, he's waiting. And so I'm like, okay, so I go, I'm walking, I'm walking. The door is like cracked like this. And so I open it up, and it's four men in suits. And I'm like, hello. And one says, Hey, you know, we're with the NYPD, blah, blah, blah. And I was like, that's great. And he's like, Well, you have to come with us. I said, I'm not going with you. And then he goes, Everyone pull out your badge so that she feels, she feels safe. And I'm like, motherfuckers, that has nothing to do with what's happening right now. Like, I am not going with you. And one of them was on the phone. Like, if if I'm looking at them, there was those three, and then the one right here was on the phone. And it was interesting because he would, he was talking, but I couldn't hear him, but he would ask me a question. So he goes, Are you Natasha? Well, I hadn't been called Natasha in a year. That was my real name. Like we had complete different identities. And I said, No. And then he like says something and then asks, Are you Natasha so-and-so? Like now he knows my last name. And I still said no. And then the the one was like, like the one that was doing all the talking is like, you have to go with us. And I was like, I'm not going with you guys. And then basically there was a conversation, like, if you don't go with us, we're gonna make you go with us type thing. And so I get in the car with them and we're driving in. All I'm asking is if the girl that was in the bathroom, I said, Is she okay? Is she okay? And they wouldn't give me any answers. And um, I was like on my phone or something like that. And then they were like, one of them says in the back, like, you need to, you need to give us your phone. I'm like, okay, because I mean, I wasn't, you know, doing anything. And uh, we get to the police station, and I'm just put in this just regular room with one of the detectives. And I keep asking if she's okay because I don't care about anything else. I just need to know she's okay because in my mind, I'm going back.
SPEAKER_04Okay.
SPEAKER_00Like all this nonsense is just nonsense to me. And then they came in and and they had like a black book that they had found because they found all of our identification with Shiva the bottom bitch, which is something also which is an identifier. If you have a group of girls and you get called to something, the one that is holding everyone's information is going to be your bottom bitch. She's going to be the one in charge. She is not the one you want to try and talk to. She's not the one who's going to give you what you need.
SPEAKER_04Okay.
SPEAKER_00So he comes in and he's like, you know, hey, can you tell me what's, you know, what does all the stuff mean in this black book? And I was like, Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. And then finally they they say, you know, her story is that you guys are just a couple girls, a few girls here having fun on spring break. And he goes, But I also want to tell you that the girl that was rescued, she's telling us everything. And she had only been there like two months. Okay. So I could I could see that, right? You know, that hasn't the life hadn't set in, right? And her and I, we had really bonded um while we were living in the life together. I would give her tips, which is interesting because I wouldn't help anyone else, but I would always help her. She hated when Spider would Spider would choose a girl every night and every morning, and she said she would just hate it. And Spider was very um OCD, like had to be clean all the time. And I would just tell her, you know, put a tampon in, act like you're on your period. He wouldn't touch her. Um, so we were able, I was able to help her in those ways. Um, but finally I just said, listen, I'll help you with the black book, but you just gotta let me go back, you know. And then all of a sudden, my dad shows up and he's crying and hugging me, and I'm completely like dead. And I'm telling you, like grown ass men of the NYPD are crying watching this. And I'm just not not present, right? And for many reasons. I truly believed, you know, why would my parents still love me? You know? And so there we had a conversation, and then uh they came in and said we're going to be arresting Shiva. And once I knew, because she had she had given Spider the heads up, hey, 911, the police, and he ran. And once I knew they were gonna arrest her and knew that the girl and I, we weren't the bad guys, I could trust them. They figured that out all on their own. And I'm gonna tell you, that's pretty fucking smart given how I was acting. I could have easily been bad. You know, but they they they figured it out. I mean, and it could have been that I kept asking, is she okay? And she didn't give a fuck about anything, right? And she kept sticking to a story that we weren't really backing up. And the girl that was rescued who was injured, she she had a pretty legitimate story going on that was shocking for everybody in the room. I mean, we got brought up to the lieutenant, the girl that was that was injured, and myself. And he goes, I just have to tell you that never in my years of this have I ever heard something like this. He goes, How how does something like this happen? You know, and of course, like at the time, we're just like, we we don't know. We thought we were gonna be models and this and that, you know, and he's traumatized himself. And um, so I think just gosh, even after being rescued, it was just not good. It was just not good because now you have to like try and deal with everything that you'd been through in your life during that period of time that you never dealt with because you don't people who are going through some sort of survival situation, if they fall apart and start crying, they're not going to survive.
SPEAKER_04Right.
SPEAKER_00Get your shit together, like you need to have your logical cap on and start thinking about how you're gonna live. Right. And so it's now that that's not happening, I don't want to have to think about what's happened to me. Cause it's like it's horrific. Right, you know, and I didn't see myself as a victim for many years. I really felt like, oh, I willingly did this. And so that's a lot of times, you know, our job at work is to help them see that they are victims and they're not criminals and we're not going to treat them as such, and that they are human beings. Um, and we are not, we are not judging them because it is like terrible for a young woman to have to sit in front of men and women and say, these are the things that happened to me because I was tricked. Because people really do think it can't happen to them.
unknownRight.
SPEAKER_00People really think it can't happen to them. And and that's that is what predators count on. Because every parent of every child victim that we've dealt with all said we didn't think that could happen to us. And that is what predators are counting on.
SPEAKER_02That's why they function.
SPEAKER_00Yes.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Um, so Natasha, at what point does Spider get apprehended?
SPEAKER_00So nine years. So I go on America's Most Wanted. Um, meanwhile, I just want to be clear, it wasn't like I was rescued and my life was perfect. Of course. Like I made a lot of decisions just trying to navigate and and figure out where I belonged. It was not easy. So I'm not, I'm not dismissing that or not acknowledging that. Um, it was about nine years since I had been rescued that he was caught off America's Most Wanted. And because, you know, unfortunately everybody feared him, it was just my word against his, but it was really for the charges that he had committed, because it was for New York, the state of New York, um, the the charges of the crimes he had committed against the girl who he injured.
unknownOkay.
SPEAKER_00So he was sentenced to five, spent two and a half. And then I was at a conference, a law enforcement conference, because that's pretty much the only things that I when I speak about certain stuff and how to apprehend these type of guys and the kind of special operations that we should be doing and stuff like that, that's only going to be towards towards law enforcement. So I showed his Picture and a police officer came up to me and said, When you showed his picture, I've been on calls with him. And we know he's bad, but we don't got anything on him. And this happened to be at the time he was a school resource officer because he had children at school. Spider did. And the principal and everybody knew he wasn't good, but no one knew all this other stuff. You know, and the cops say this, I mean, you can't just make stuff up here, right?
SPEAKER_04Right.
SPEAKER_00Even though we know they're bad. And so um I said, I can help you with that. I said, There's no way he stopped doing what he did. And um he ended up leaving, and they started getting search warrants and getting things and got the ball rolling. And year later, we're able to arrest him. So then we went back. So 17 years total, I waited to have true justice. He was sentenced to 154 years in prison.
SPEAKER_02Aaron Ross Powell For what were the extent of all the charges?
SPEAKER_00Multiple counts of human trafficking, conspiracy to commit human trafficking, and then rape and sodomy and that kind of stuff.
SPEAKER_02And I mean not that it matters, but do you know if he's in protective custody?
SPEAKER_00Aaron Ross Powell I I do not know. I do know that he will be up for parole in a few years because the state of California believes that when you're old, I guess you're not going to commit crimes anymore. So um he'll be up for parole when he reaches a certain a certain age because he was he was 54 or 56 when he went in.
SPEAKER_02What uh what were your feelings when um he was sentenced back up a little.
SPEAKER_00So during during the time where you know the investigation was going on, you know, there were ti there were up and downs because, you know, to be a mom and a wife now and to know that there were girls that picked me out of a lineup, right? To say she she recruited me um was horrific to hear, right? Um, but thankfully, you know, everybody understands that we were all just trying to do what we could do to survive. Um, but I still definitely live with that. Um, it was it was horrible because Spider would his defense attorneys would send private investigators to my house. We'd just moved to a to a new area and they were going through the whole neighborhood. And so, of course, everyone's like, you know, who's the new neighbor? Now everyone has to know my business, right? Um, and just doing really, really terrible things to me, um, making people believe that I was still involved in things that I was not involved in. And um, you know, it I know now why people don't want to testify. Yeah, right. Because they, I mean, they really they tried to destroy me up there. I mean, obviously they didn't win. Um, but that's that's what made sentencing, I think, so much better. But we gave I gave a victim's impact statement. I was the only victim to to do so. And then he has a right to to make a statement. And he said that his blood is on our hands, us girls' hands, and that we need to repent and that we need to clear our conscience because people like him will be killed in prison. And that we all lied. And I only knew one of the other girls out of all seven girls that testified, I only knew one of them. And that was a girl that was injured. All the other ones came before me or after me. I didn't even know who they were. And we were none of us were allowed to to talk to each other or anything like that. And um, and then he recited some some Bible verses. I think it was something out of the Ten Commandments or something, I don't remember. And that's that's when I realized he's an idiot because his ego, even in those moments to save himself, he couldn't just say something to not that I would have believed it, but like, I know how smart, I know how smart he is. I know how he operates. I know how he operated. Um and to think that even in his moments of sentencing, because that's when the judge said, You have no remorse, you haven't apologized, you've accepted no responsibility, now I'm gonna add all this other shit, and now you're going away forever, right? What an idiot. Um, but you know, it wasn't it wasn't in those moments, because when I was giving my victim's impact statement, you know, all his girls were sitting on his side of the courtroom and they were gonna start, you see in the video, like the deputy get up behind me because they were starting to talk crap to me, right? Right. Like I'm a snitch. Because they were writing him letters in prison, Daddy, I'll continue your legacy. And so it wasn't in those moments that I really felt anything. I think it came later on a couple things. For the first time in my life, one day I woke up and I hadn't thought about what had happened to me, right? Because I got justice. And it's why I love working with law enforcement because people do not realize when victims come to us, come to us, they do not know anything. They don't know anything they need, but they really don't know that they need justice because justice really changes your life. And I can't get them justice. I can help them, I can assist them, but only law enforcement can do that. And it does heal you in ways nothing else can heal you. I went through trauma recovery, nothing heals you like justice. Um but I would say, you know, him being sentenced in the state of California, one of the most traumatic things is getting a phone call because you think it's over and you realize it will never be over until he's dead. Because there's always these different reasonings now that the state gives them where they can apply for to say, this happened to me. I should get a retrial or I should not have these charges or I should be let out. And um, it's very, very traumatic because I get these phone calls and the first words out of my mouth is he's gonna come and kill my daughter in front of me. And I know because I was the star witness and I was the person who spoke out for 17 years, I never stopped. And I know this because one of the girls told me afterwards, after trial, she goes, he would say you were like a thorn in his side. He knew you weren't ever gonna stop. And what's so crazy is the whole time I'm speaking out, I'm scared of him, he feared me. I had power I didn't even know I had, you know. And um I know because I feel it and I just know it and I know how he is. He sits in prison and he thinks about me and he thinks about when he gets out, and um I know he thinks about how he's gonna get back at me. Because I I I know this person. I know this person because I learned from him. He taught me. So I know I know his thought process.
SPEAKER_02If uh he was up for parole and you were asked to go and say something, what would you say to him?
SPEAKER_00What would I say to him?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, what would you say to the board, the parole board?
SPEAKER_00Oh, he can't be let out. He will never stop doing this because he got caught before and he didn't stop, and he got caught again. He's never going to stop. And then I will proceed to tell them the horrific things he did to me. And the thing is, is life is not fair. But why was I sentenced to a life in prison that I didn't choose and he gets out? Because I I don't ever get to get out.
SPEAKER_02Right. What do you say to a um high school student? Um What would you say to yourself in high school right now if you could have a conversation with yourself? What advice would you give yourself?
SPEAKER_00To go and tell your parents.
SPEAKER_02How do you tell your parents?
SPEAKER_00To say I was gonna apply for this job. Um, but I also am going to go back to education. You know, when schools don't want to talk about this, when parents don't want to talk about this, you are increasing the chances of your child becoming a victim of something. You know, and and this is the thing 99% of children will come into contact with something that makes them feel uncomfortable online.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_00Okay. And if you're a parent who thinks that your child cannot be being actively groomed online or in person, and you said, not me, you're sadly mistaken. And that is what the predators are banking on. And your child is going to be the next victim. Because it's no longer, they don't have to just go choose at the bus stop or the shelters anymore. Social media has allowed us to serve our children up on a platter to say, at your at your leisure, pick pick somebody. Who do you want today? And they're just going to keep doing it. There is such a lack of oversight of any of our social media apps and any of our OnlyFans, our Pornhub. Nobody's getting in trouble. Nobody's getting in trouble.
SPEAKER_02Natasha, what do you say to someone who um is on a journey to testify against someone like you did? What do you tell them to encourage though?
SPEAKER_00Well, I don't lie. And I say this will be probably one of the hardest things you will ever do in your entire life because it was for me. It's in my top three is testifying, going to trial. But it will change your life. It changes your life. It changes you. Something happens when you get justice that nothing else can do. And I j it just it's almost like this burden gets taken off of you that you no longer have to carry. You can set it down now. And it allows you to start healing in all the ways that you couldn't because you were so busy fighting for justice. Because now you can focus on your trauma.
SPEAKER_02Which brings me to my last question. There are people that experience hypervigilance as a result of uh post-traumatic stress.
SPEAKER_00Yes.
SPEAKER_02And um how do you deal with it?
SPEAKER_00Well, I went through trauma recovery, but I will say that um it gets better, but it never goes away, right? If I'm if I hear like I can't be around fireworks, right? Because it's an units, it's an unexpected bang. I can't, I can't expect it. I don't know when it's going to make that noise, right?
SPEAKER_04Right.
SPEAKER_00Or um for whatever reason I can't go into parking garages. I visually see them. I visually see it fought like coming down. Um and just certain things, I I learn to live with them, but I also learn to ask myself, where is this coming from? Why do I feel this right now? Right. It will never go away that when I walk into a room, I have to observe everything and see who's going to be my biggest threat. Um, and who would I take out first, or reading people, right? Like I don't need you to even speak. I'm going to read you before you speak, so that I'm fully aware of how I'm going to handle you, right? Um, so that I'm always prepared. Um, I feel like that will never go away. You know, PTSD is something I had to come to terms with. And the part of our brain, the fight or flight part of our brain that helps us in those situations, right? That helps us escape. Unfortunately, as amazing as the brain is, it doesn't know how to differentiate, oh, that's somebody who just jumped around the corner and scared you, or somebody holding you at gunpoint. Your body responds, you are in trouble. Get the fuck out. Right. So I'm going to punch you. It's not funny, right? My response is I have to fight you because you just scared me. And that's what my brain is telling me. I have to escape. So that's why when things happen, like I just ran like in the parking garage incident, I just opened the car and ran out while people are driving. Right. I had no control over that situation. My everything told me you are in danger. You need to run away from it. And, you know, it's unfortunately, there is no, there is no cure to it. And I do think that you have to find ways to be able to process all that because you're gonna have good days and you're gonna have bad days. And um, you know, you have to find things that allow you to have that outlet that you can focus on because that's what you need to turn to when it's really, really bad.
SPEAKER_02Um what else would you like listeners to know about your experience and your work that you're uh involved in?
SPEAKER_00That these victims are human beings. I'm a human being. I'm somebody's daughter, and uh they are all worthy of justice. I don't care that you think it's not okay what they did. I I I don't care that you have an opinion on it, but they are worthy of justice too. And uh again, if it happened to me, it can happen to you.
SPEAKER_02Well, Natasha, thank you for being here. Appreciate you sharing your story. Um I'm thankful that I met you because your work needs to continue. Um we have no idea how many people you're gonna help, but please continue to do it. Thank you. Yeah for having me. Appreciate it. Thank you for watching, everybody. Um, you know, if you're struggling, um there are there are people that can help. 988. If you're feeling suicidal, having thoughts of suicide, there are people that are you're not alone. There are people that feel the same way, people that can talk to you, people that can help you. Uh as a peace officer, cop line, train professionals, train cops that have gone through the same things that you have gone through, that can talk to you about whatever it is that uh is challenging you right now. Um, we're gonna end this segment with a prayer from our brother in uh Christ and our brother in law enforcement, Greg Adminson. Thank you for watching.
SPEAKER_01We come before you with gratitude for the brave men and women who have answered the sacred call to protect and serve. You said in Romans 13, verse 4, that the one in authority is God's servant for your good. Lord, we thank you for every officer who stands the line. We thank you for every officer who runs toward the sound of danger when others run away. We thank you, God, for every officer who brings order out of chaos and who seeks justice with compassion. Father, as warriors in a fallen world, we draw our strength from you. Your word declares in Psalm 144, verse 1, Blessed be the Lord my rock, who trains my hands for war, my fingers for every battle. Train our hands, Lord, not only for the battles of the street, but for the battles within. Give us courage when fear whispers, give us patience when tempers rise. Grant us wisdom when decisions must be made in an instant. Lord, we ask for your divine protection over every officer in the field. Surround them with your angels as a shield, as you promised in Psalm ninety-one, and let your peace guard their heart and mind in Christ Jesus. When they grow weary, remind them that those who hope in the Lord will renew their strength, they will soar on wings like eagles. Almighty God, you are our strength, you are our shield, you are our ever present help in times of trouble. Father, when the day's work is done, bring them home safely. Restore their spirit, renew their joy, and remind them that they do not fight this battle alone. For you go before them, you go beside them, you are with them. In the mighty name of Jesus Christ, our commander and king. Amen.