Courage Under Fire

In this powerful episode, we sit down with El Cajon Police Sergeant Tim McFarland to discuss one of the most defining moments of his law enforcement career—a violent encounter that left his partner and FTO, critically wounded by a gunshot to the head.  Recruits are often challenged to handle critical incidents as early as day one of their training.  Tim McFarland stepped up to the plate.

Sergeant McFarland takes listeners behind the scenes of that life-changing day, sharing what it was like to respond under extreme pressure, make split-second decisions, and witness his field training officer fighting for his life. He reflects on the emotional toll of critical incidents, the strength of the law enforcement brotherhood, and the resilience required to continue serving after experiencing trauma.

We also explore the lessons learned from adversity, and how the incident shaped McFarland’s leadership philosophy as he advanced through the ranks. From surviving the chaos of encountering a situation involving life threatening behavior to mentoring the next generation of officers, Sergeant McFarland offers valuable insights on courage, preparedness, wellness, and the importance of never facing life’s toughest battles alone.

Whether you are in law enforcement, a first responder, or someone interested in stories of perseverance and human resilience, this conversation provides a compelling look into the realities of policing and the extraordinary strength required to overcome tragedy.

🎯 Whether you're a first responder, military, or someone interested in becoming a law enforcement officer—this conversation will move you, challenge you, and inspire you.

👇 Drop a comment with your favorite takeaway, and remember to subscribe if you want more real conversations like this.

#podcast #resilient ##cops #policeofficer #motivation #lawenforcement #deputy #police #lawenforcementofficer #policechief #policewoman #gangs #prison #mexicanmafia 

Contact Information:
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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

We don't join up to be police officers to be millionaires. We have a higher calling. We wanna protect the community. Whoever they're significant other that's going into law enforcement, they're going to change. Like the job is going to change them. They're gonna experience things that never experienced before, and it's gonna make the relationship dynamic at home difficult. We hear the tone on the radio, possible shots fired at a house, houses on fire, hear gunshots. Instantly, I'm like, I gotta go find cover. Feels like an eternity. FTO just got chopped.

SPEAKER_02 0:31

Welcome everybody. Thank you for tuning in. My name is Juan Cefas, and this is Lineup with Fit PD. Today's episode is centered around a conversation we have at the academy with recruits. We talk about being physically and mentally prepared for the worst on your very first day. We hope that people take that conversation seriously, but it's unknown. And we try to show various different um videos or share experiences, and when people graduate, we hope for the best for them. Well, today's guest is a uh El Cahone police department sergeant, Tim McFarlane. He is here to share a story about being that person that just graduated from the academy, and it's one of those worst day scenarios. Please help me welcome Tim McFarlane. Tim. What? Thank you for being here. Good morning. Thanks for having me. Appreciate it. Yeah, you know what? Um I'm so glad you agreed to be here because I feel that you know we share this story with recruits in the academy or possibility of worst case scenario on day one. And you actually live that. So it wasn't day one, but it was pretty close to it for you. And um I think that sharing your story will just help so many people put things in perspective. So thank you for being here. Yeah, you're welcome. Thanks for having me. Um, but you know what, let's back up a little bit. Uh uh you were in the academy in uh 2010. Yep. And what were you uh doing before you became a uh a recruit?

SPEAKER_00 2:36

So a little back history. Um, born and raised in East County in October, uh went to Santana High School. I was there at the San at Santana during the high school shooting. Wow. Um pretty impactful. Didn't really think there was a shooting that happened at the school, but obviously it did. Um out of high school, I got uh hired at the Alcoholic Police Department as a car lot intern. Uh basically, that's taking the cars to the wash. You know, I got to see what the law enforcement environment was like. Uh my stepdad at the time was a sergeant there. Um I joined the cadet program uh because I really liked the Alkham Police Department and the environment that they had. The cadet experience was awesome. Then went into dispatch as a 901 call taker and then transferred over to dispatcher. Yeah, originally I didn't even want to be in law enforcement. My my career goal was to be a mechanical engineer. Okay. I wanted to be the guy that, you know, you see a new Ford Mustang driving down the street, and I helped design that thing, you know. But the math just started getting crazy and I couldn't keep up with it. I was working at the police department, you know, I loved the family environment, you know, I loved everybody that was there. Um, I felt like home. So, you know, I applied to become a police officer. Then eventually I was uh lucky enough to get picked up by the agency that I worked at. Uh, and then that's what brought me to the academy in October of 2010. All right.

SPEAKER_02 4:06

Let me just back up for a second. So you uh want to talk a little bit about the uh Santana high school shooting. Um what what were your thoughts going through your mind? Um even if you weren't directly involved in any of uh what happened?

SPEAKER_00 4:24

Uh so a little bit about the day. Um I show up to school and I'm walking through like the large quad of the school. I'm sure it's not the same as it is as it was then, but I see this mob of people running at me screaming, and I thought, I'm getting jumped today. Like, I don't know what I did wrong. I just showed up, but something bad's gonna happen to me. And everybody starts running past me. I'm like, oh, okay, well, maybe that's not what's gonna happen. I start walking towards uh the hallway that the shooter ended up shooting into that I didn't know, obviously. And I heard some ricochang off the lockers, and I thought somebody was throwing something at the lockers. So I'm like, man, I don't want to walk through here. Someone's throwing something. So I turned around. Uh, you know, in school, I was one of the guys that never missed any days. Uh my parents were very strict on being at school every day, no ditching, like education is important. So I saw one of my buddies that was in the neighborhood with me, and uh, and he was kind of the same way like we don't miss school, we don't miss days. And we were like, dude, what's happening? And oh, heard there's a shooting. I'm like, yeah, right, that would never happen. That's crazy. But we're like, dude, everyone's leaving. Look, everyone's leaving. This is our one day to leave school and not get in trouble. Like, we're not gonna get in trouble. Uh, my dad at the time uh was a corrections deputy. He was asleep at home because he worked midnights, right? Uh, so as we're walking uh to our houses, I told my buddy, I'm like, hey, let's go to your house. My dad's asleep. I don't want to wake him up. Like, he's probably gonna get mad that I'm not at school. Turn on the news and it's real moment. You know, the police helicopter's over. You see all these cops there shooting at the school. We were kind of just involved in that news story for like an hour. Yeah. Until I finally went, oh man, I should probably go home because they're probably worried. My parents are probably worried where I'm at.

SPEAKER_02 6:10

Right.

SPEAKER_00 6:11

Uh so I go home and eventually get the you know, the house phone rings and tell my parents, oh, I'm here. We left, and you know, they're obviously very happy that I wasn't hurt, that I was okay. You know, there was definitely the aftermath of it. Um, it's the first time I had ever been into like a counseling session at school and hearing how people felt who were weren't involved or who were involved, finding out like what students were shot, which ones, you know, weren't, that you know, the guy was arrested. It was it was an interesting experience, uh tragic, but on the back end, the the mental side of it, the mental wellness side was an experience I'd never experienced before.

SPEAKER_02 6:53

Now, were any of the uh victims people that you knew?

SPEAKER_00 6:57

Um, not closely. Not close. You know, I knew who they were uh at school. Like if I heard a name, I could know a face, but I wasn't like really close with them or anything.

SPEAKER_02 7:06

And I don't want to jump ahead too much, but once you became a peace officer or any time in your lifetime, did you ever meet the officer that was there that helped um take this person into custody?

SPEAKER_00 7:18

No, I never met directly um the specific officer. I know that learning after the fact a bunch of Alcohol and BD showed up, um, one of which who was my original FTO, you know, he was there. Um I don't know if he had originally taken the guy into custody, but I know he was he was there as part of the response. Uh and just hearing like how many officers showed up um after the fact you know was was impactful.

SPEAKER_02 7:47

Yeah, I I can only imagine that, you know. Um you know, that is just um emotional because we still have that issue in America. Unfortunately. Yeah. Um now Tim, when you decide to apply to alcohol um and they give you the call, what's going through your mind?

SPEAKER_00 8:15

Excitement. You know, I'd been trying to apply to a bunch of different agencies. Um it didn't work out. I got great feedback on what I could do to be a better applicant. Um so once I got the call that I was you know selected to be hired, it was pure excitement, you know, until you hear about the academy, and then there's you know the stress, the worry. Like you can be as prepared uh through a conversation as possible, but once you're there in it, it's a whole nother story, you know. So it was super exciting, uh, but it was a new challenge.

SPEAKER_02 8:53

So you hear stuff about the academy and you show up. What do you what are those stories false or what's going on? What's your experience like?

SPEAKER_00 9:02

Uh definitely not false. Not false. You know, you hear about the the first week being the super tough week, you know, they're in their face, they're yelling at you, like you're gonna be doing push-ups till you can't do push-ups anymore. Like, no matter how fit you are, they're gonna break everyone. You know, nobody can do anything right, even if you're doing it right, because that's it's part of the game. And you're like, oh, okay. And you get there, you know, you're in formation, top of the stairs, you go into the classroom, you know, the DI comes in, starts yelling at you. Nobody can do anything right, get down on the gridiron, push us, push us, push us, push us, push us back in the classroom, doing everything wrong, push us, push us, push us back in the classroom, go up the stairs, down the stairs. You know, you have like, I don't know, 20 DIs there, everybody's getting yelled at, nobody's safe. Like it was looking back, it was fun, you know.

SPEAKER_02 9:53

It was fun in the moment, maybe not so much. Um, what are some of your favorite classes?

SPEAKER_00 10:10

Um, so evoc was always fun. Okay, you know, because you get to drive a police car. Yeah, it's controlled, but they still want you to kind of push yourself. So Evoch was a fun class. Um, defensive tactics uh was a a different type of challenge, um, depending on who your partner was in the academy, uh, as far as your your partners uh could be fun or it could not be fun, right? Like if you have someone who you're partnering with who's pushing too hard, you know, there's always a a worry of of injury, right? Like you don't want to get hurt and then not be able to finish the academy because you're told in the beginning, hey, if you miss too much time, you have to start over. And nobody wants to start over. Of course, you have to, you know. So uh your partner was important on who you partnered up with. Um, but there was a lot of lessons learned in defensive tactics. Uh, I think the the best part of the whole defensive tactics portion was the controlled scenarios and then the fight for your life. Um, because it when when you're gonna have to use it, it's there. And it's as practical as the academy can make it in a controlled setting with PTing you for a minute to get your adrenaline up, to get your heart racing, to then throw you into a fight and how you uh respond to it.

SPEAKER_02 11:29

Now, um besides uh DTEC, are there any other classes that are challenging?

SPEAKER_00 11:39

Uh sure. Um the the LDs in general, learning domains, can be challenging. Um if you really don't study and you don't have your heart set on studying the courses, um, you're not gonna do well on on the tests. Um they're designed to challenge you. Um it's not hard stuff to learn, but you have to put the effort in. Uh and then in the beginning, I would say the scenarios that the academy puts you through are challenging and they're tough uh to get you opened up to have you learn lessons. Towards the end, obviously you look back and you go, Oh, that first scenario of a drunk guy seemed pretty easy, right? But when you're brand new and you're not sure what you're doing, right? You think you're doing everything right and it's wrong. Right. Uh so scenarios can be definitely challenging but um rewarding as well.

SPEAKER_02 12:30

Any uh particular scenarios that you that helped you kind of be prepared for like tactical situations or you know uh the seriousness of the job?

SPEAKER_00 12:46

I would say the the scenarios that we do the the hot stops during during the day and the night, even though they're controlled, I would say you know, those are a really good representation on what it might be like in the field, especially as the scenarios evolve and you get runners, you get multiple people in the car, how you handle that, how you work together as a team, to have effective communication, um, to make the scenario or the event run as smooth as possible. And when you don't, what it looks like that way when you're done with the academy, um, you have an idea of what it needs to be like. Um, so uh I would say that the hot stops were definitely pedestrian and vehicle were definitely um impactful and uh challenging, but as close to real as the academy can make it, uh, which is super beneficial.

SPEAKER_02 13:39

Can you tell us a little bit about your experience with the uh fight for your life? Because um the the academy has changed somewhat. And so um I just want to hear what your experience was like back then.

SPEAKER_00 13:55

Okay. Uh so uh the fight for your life back then, um, you know, at everybody was outside of the mat room, and as the scenarios progressed, the rest of your academy mates got to watch you come in, but you weren't able to see what was happening beforehand. Um, once you were in the room, the one of the TOs would PT you for a minute straight. And it was timed. It wasn't there was no breaks, it wasn't 30 seconds, it was a full minute, whether it was burpees or push-ups or you know, air squats or doing little sprints, once that minute was up, they threw you on the ground. Uh you had a suspect on top of you, straddling you and getting ready to assault you in the face. Obviously, you're wearing headgear and everything to make sure it's safe, and then the fight's on and how you respond to it. And it can go as quick or as long as necessary to see how quick you get out of the scenario. Um, you know, if you don't react fast, then you're gonna be there for a while, and that's what it's designed to do is to show you what fighting with a suspect might be like for a minute, because it feels like forever, even though it might only be a minute. Did that uh prepare you for anything in any way? Uh yeah, I mean, I would say uh it prepared me for you know knowing how long a minute might actually feel like um when you're fighting with somebody, um, but that you can fight through it, right? That even if you're taking strikes, you know, you have the grit to get through it, that um we always win, right? We don't lose. And you go until you win.

SPEAKER_02 15:35

Now, Tim, um, what about the mental part of it?

SPEAKER_00 15:40

Um, so the the mental aspect of it, uh again, you have to have the grit to to fight through it to know, like, yeah, I'm taking these hits, it might not feel good. And again, in a controlled environment, you're not getting actual knuckles to your to your face, but you know, you're still getting strikes, and the academy designed it to make it challenging, um, challenge you mentally to not give up because we don't give up. Um so that uh I guess the mental side of it is just knowing that you're gonna win. You have to have the mental toughness to know you're gonna win, to fight through it. And in the academy, during that scenario, you don't have partners show up, but in real life, your partners will show up. Might not feel like it, but they will show up. They will be there to help you. We always win, we don't lose. And to have that tough, you know, mental stance that I'm gonna fight through it, even if it's gonna hurt, I'm gonna fight through it.

SPEAKER_02 16:39

I'm glad you're saying that we always win, Tim, because that's the mentality that we need, right? Um there's no other option. No, no, we always win. Crooks or people that are um our customers don't have rules. And we have rules. And we should overcome any resistance quickly with the least amount of force to be able to take somebody into custody. But we never give up and we always win. Yep. Yeah. Um now, Tim, uh, any other lessons uh learned in the academy?

SPEAKER_00 17:16

Um, so I'll go back to week one in the academy. Um horrible, unfortunate circumstance that San Diego PD came across uh where one of their officers was shot and killed in the line of duty. Um in the week one of the academy, the the TOs talk about like this could be you on week one, like it's a dangerous job. They they try to prepare you as best as you can, but a lot of the recruits go in, uh including myself a little bit, thinking it's not gonna happen to me, right? Like I'm too smart, I'm gonna be too prepared. But in the the grander scheme, we can't control the narrative, right? We can try to prevent things, but in the end, we aren't in control of everything. Um, so at the end of that first week, um, our academy was able to go to uh the funeral of Christopher Wilson, and to be a part of that was super impactful. Um, to see the response that the law enforcement community and the community in general um provided and showed support for. But then, you know, on the mental side also, like this is real. Like, this could be any one of us. This could be my best friend in the academy that I'm sitting across from, or you know, someone two seats down that I built a relationship with. And seeing the procession and being part of it, and then going to the the rock church to see just how many people were there and how much support there was was uh it was impactful.

SPEAKER_02 18:50

You know, the uh I don't ever want to go to a funeral. I don't ever want to go to another one. No, but um having been to funerals and I I was there with you. Um I was a training officer in your academy. Yes, you were, which that's a completely different story, but we won't go into that one right now. Um, but at the time, you know, um going to a funeral it as a training officer with your recruits in the bus, different level, different level. And but I wanted to be there because I wanted to make sure that um, you know, of course, that I was there showing support, but uh also to uh help you guys process the information. Um allowed you to see how serious this job can be and hopefully uh help you navigate through some of the mental wellness parts that we need to overcome. Um you know, I can only imagine as a recruit in week one, it's gotta be tough. We're already going to a funeral. Um something that's impact impactful is that, you know, as we're passing uh an overpass, there there are a bunch of people with American flags in support of uh law enforcement, uh firefighters, and just civilians, just hundreds of civilians that are uh just watching the procession and in support of law enforcement. And that's something that uh tugs at your heart. Oh, definitely. Yeah. Um what what if anything uh were you and your peers kind of uh processing or talking about?

SPEAKER_00 20:46

I think just uh you know how how real it actually was, you know, like again, you you hear about it, you you see it, because you know it this happens unfortunately, but being there and involved in it uh so soon into our law enforcement careers was was was surreal. It it you know hit home, you know, it was in this job we knew it was dangerous, but now you see how dangerous it is. Um but it was also uh impactful to see, like I said, the community response and how many people showed up to provide support in general who didn't even know who he was, right? Um, you know, not to get too sidetracked, uh, but due to my uh years of experience, uh I can say we probably deal with one percent of people on a regular basis. Because we deal with bad people, right? We don't deal with 99% of the community who are good citizens who you know support us uh and who are there to show up. And that day, you know, showed just how many people were there to support uh. San Diego Police Department, law enforcement in general, you know, Chris Wilson's family, like it was it was huge. Huge.

SPEAKER_02 22:08

Um now when we're uh there and you're listening to uh friends and family members talking, what w if anything stands out?

SPEAKER_00 22:23

I would say, you know, hearing hearing the family talk, it kind of made me just self-reflect, like if this happened to me, right? Hope it never does. Right. But if I was in this position, like what would they say about me? Like what would my family say? What would my my friends say? What would my what would my peers say? Right? Like, I'd assume they'd all have good things to say, you know, but it makes you think a little bit like what who would show up, who would give a statement, who who would give a speech, like what would be said. So, you know, for me that kind of set my mindset like uh you know, I need to be the best uh leader and example that I can provide to my peers at the time, right? And now as a leader, like lead by example. Um one of my chief score tenants is lead by example, and I strongly believe in that. And you know, from that moment, that was kind of my mindset is I need to set a good example for everyone because I would want everyone to have good things to say.

SPEAKER_02 23:28

Now, Tim, the the thing about the uh Chris Wilson shooting, we didn't know it at the time, but that some of the circumstances will be uh very significant later on in your in your career. Um there's some parallels to an experience that you would have later on. We had Chris Wilson who was a field training officer, and his trainee was on his very last night of the um his face training. He was getting ready to graduate from face training. And on that night, they went to a call, which should have been their last call, or the next watch could have taken that call, but uh Chris wanted to go and support uh probation, and what ends up happening is he's uh killed in the line of duty. And his trainee is there to uh help um with the whole situation with uh trying to get Chris out and uh providing suppression fire down range. Uh but you know that that is a uh horrific thing to happen, uh, especially for someone that's just starting out.

SPEAKER_00 24:51

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 24:52

Yeah. And so, I mean, part of the reason that we wanted you here today is because we wanted you to talk about that particular um experience that you later on ended up having uh after uh you graduated from the academy. Um can you tell us a little bit about once you graduate, how's your feeling phase training?

SPEAKER_00 25:18

Um so at the time, and it's changed now, um, when I graduated, we had like six months of training, uh, an FTO for two months, so three phases. Um first two months are almost like you're a right-along learning phase. You know, your second two months is when they're letting the leash out. You know, you're making your own decisions, um, trying not to mess stuff up too much. Um, and then the last two phases is when you're getting close to being out on your own, right? Um fifth phase, which is when the incident happened, that's what I was in. And then our last phase at the time was like an X phase where you're a solo officer in a car, but your FTO is working on the same shift as you and has a really long leash, not going to every call but monitoring what you're doing. Um, we don't do that anymore. Um, but because we follow post, which is fine. Um but so yeah, I was in my fifth month of of training.

SPEAKER_02 26:17

Now you're in your fifth month of uh training, and take us to that horrific day when uh there's a critical incident.

SPEAKER_00 26:25

Interesting thing about um that particular week, um, my FTO that I was assigned to um was in the military. So he was on military leave for that weekend. Uh I was reassigned to Officer Slocum. Um he was an FTO also. Um, you know, because I had worked on the Calm Center and did dispatch and stuff, like I knew who he was, like we had a good relationship. So it wasn't like a complete stranger that I was in a car with that I'd never met um that particular day. Um, you know, my FTO was very proactive. So we were out trying to make as many stops as we can. You know, we trying to catch up to this car full of foreheads on the freeway that were like, man, this thing would be a good stop. Transmission starts going out on our car, and we're like, all right, we got to go back to the station. That was also the same day that we were transitioning from our old station to our new station. So our dispatch was in our new station, but all of our equipment without the old station. Uh, so we go back to the, we're on our way back to the station, trying to take this car back because it's not wanting to go in more second gear. We hear the tone on the radio, you know, call comes out, possible shots fired at a house, houses on fire. And he was like, Well, we're going. And I'm like, all right, well, I hope the car makes it. Like, you know, lights and sirens, let's go. Right. You know, car makes it. We park tactically, you know, we a couple other officers show up. We're making a tactical response as best as practical. You know, me, my good, my mind, I see the fire. I'm like, oh man, this is real. Like, okay, this is this is more legitimate. Like, it's not just uh, well, somebody heard some gunshots and maybe it's nothing. We're walking up, we see someone come out of a house that ends up not being the target house, but that's what we had focused on because we thought maybe that was the target house because someone came out and went back in. They probably also heard what was going on, saw us show up and were scared and went back in the house, but you know, we didn't know that. So as we're setting up our setting up our perimeter, um, you know, so far throughout my training, it was, hey, sit here. This is where you're gonna post up the FTO to go move around to another spot, right? FTO determined this is a good spot for the trainee to be at. I'm gonna move around. Well, we end up setting up on the house that ends up being the target. We're setting up a perimeter. Uh Jared is uh using a truck as cover, which is directly across from where the suspect ends up shooting from. We don't know that at the time, obviously. But he tells me, hey, try to get around the house into the backyard. And I'm sitting there thinking, oh, uh, usually the FTO does this. Like, all right, like he's trusting me to go into a backyard. Okay, like, man, how am I gonna do this? Like, what am I gonna do? Like, scary, you know. As soon as I start hitting close to the backyard, you know, I hear what sounds like a grumpy person coming out of the coming out of their front door. Like, it takes me back to childhood, like, hey, get your ball off my lawn, kind of thing. Hear gunshots, and instantly I'm like, I gotta go find cover, go to cover. Um feels like an eternity. I look over at my, you know, my FTO, and I can see he's grabbing his neck. Um, he had his gun out, it looked like he was bleeding. So I'm like, oh man, my my FTO just got shot. Like, what do I do? Like, what's what's gonna happen? Like, you know, there was this camera guy that was sitting right next to me, hunched down, telling him, dude, it's not safe. You need to get out of here. He doesn't want to leave. End up finding out he was like a freelance for videographer. Okay, you know, but I told him, Hey, it's not safe, and I didn't have time to deal with with him anymore. Right. Um, I'm a you know, in in training, and I like can only focus on so many things. And so my FTO starts running uh towards my location, but following the fence line, and I see him fall over and stump over, and I'm like, I I have to do something. Like, I'm not gonna be that person who sits behind the car and scared and doesn't make an effort to say my partner. Was I scared? Absolutely. I had told myself I'm probably gonna get shot, but it's all right, I gotta go help my partner. I I can't leave from there. As I'm running up, I see him and I'm like, okay, how am I going to move him? How am I gonna help him? I'm like, am I gonna carry him? Am I gonna drag him? And instantly I go back to all the training in the academy uh from all the dummy drags and the partner drags, and I'm like, this is what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna grab him, I'm gonna drag him. Uh so I go up to him, assess him real quick. He's still holding his neck, start a dummy drag, get him almost across the street, legs are on fire, legs are burning, then I fall over. Uh, and at that moment, like I felt uh really weak because I couldn't drag my partner, who wasn't a big guy, um, all the way across the street to a place to cover. Very fortunate that there were two neighbors outside who were there who saw what happened. They helped me pick them up. I got him to a to a place to cover and then provided updates over the radio while assessing, you know, Jared, trying to see what was happening. You know, Jared was telling me to to notify his wife, you know, in in my mind, like I'm thinking he's wanting me to do this because he doesn't think he's gonna make it. So that's a whole nother level of stress. And so, you know, I'm like trying to focus and say, you're gonna tell him, you're gonna tell your family, like you're gonna be okay. We're gonna get you through this, you're gonna survive. I'm not gonna tell your wife because I want you to tell your wife. Um, because I don't want to be the one to deliver that message. I want her to be able to see you and know that you're okay. So it was it was hard. Um, yeah, I was like upset, angry, um, like all the emotions. Right. Uh uh. Fortunately, we had a sergeant working that day and had a ton of SWAT experience, got a team together really quick, you know, performed officer rescue, got carried out of there, and then you know, sat there at that position of cover until more people could show up and help out.

SPEAKER_02 32:52

And once you um get uh Officer Slocum to um a position where you can get him into a car, he's taken to the hospital.

SPEAKER_00 33:02

Instantly. Yep. Instantly. Yep. The team, the fire department was already staged and ready. Um at that time, all of our medics and fire personnel um were firefighters. You know, now we a contract with AMR, which they still do a good job. Um, but usually when we have an officer down or an officer injured, our fire personnel um provide the medical assistance. Um, we have a great working relationship with our fire department. Um, so it's it's kind of more personal.

SPEAKER_02 33:30

Sure.

SPEAKER_00 33:30

Um, but yeah, they pretended to him right away and then got him off to the hospital. Um, and then you know, we're holding a perimeter. We got to do it, we got a job to do, we have to stay focused. So you remained on the scene? Yeah, until I could get removed.

SPEAKER_02 33:45

Okay. All right. And while you're at the scene, you set up the uh the group sets up a perimeter, and how long before we take this person into custody?

SPEAKER_00 33:56

We had the perimeter set up. I I know that the sergeant's next priority was to remove me from the scene to get me replaced. You know, it felt like forever, but I'm sure it wasn't forever because you know, your mind processes things differently when you're in a high stress situation. Um, a sheriff's deputy drove by, picked me up, and uh took me to our command post, which was at a high school a couple blocks away. Um, and then I remained there uh for for a while, for a long time. Okay. Until I was brought back to the station to be to provide a statement and a debrief because it was an officer-involved shooting, um, officer down kind of situation. Um, you know, but my partners who had showed up and took up over for me, I was like, if this guy comes out, like you need to take care of this dude. Like later on learning he had taken his own life in the house, but like I was mad. Yeah. Like I was mad that he did this to my partner, right? That he would make a decision like that. Like it was. Yeah, I was I was frustrated for sure.

SPEAKER_02 34:59

Well, you know, it's difficult to figure out what's going through this person's mind when they started a fire. We don't know if they have explosives inside, and it's putting everyone still at risk, including the citizens.

SPEAKER_00 35:13

Yeah, not also.

SPEAKER_02 35:14

Yeah, so I mean potentially there could have been dozens of lives that uh could have been lost. Oh, absolutely. Um, so yeah, absolutely. We have to take care of that threat. And it's a decision that we need to make immediately as peace officers. Um sometimes the community doesn't understand the um complexity of our job.

SPEAKER_00 35:40

Sure, yeah. That's because they're not privy to everything. And we don't want them to be, right? Because we see a lot of bad stuff, right? And we all process it in different ways, but you know, sometimes addressing the threat quick is is better than than prolonged.

SPEAKER_02 36:01

Absolutely. Now, Tim, at what point do you go visit uh Officer Slocum?

SPEAKER_00 36:08

Um, so just be so to cover just before that, sure. Um uh that the command post where I was at, um, you know, seeing all the police officer cars show up, a whole street full, um, you know, took me kind of back to week one of the academy, seeing the procession, you know. But like the the support, how many people were showing up, how they wanted to help. Um, you know, we had a we had a chaplain that showed up, uh, which was uh kind of frustrated me because he'd sit with me and be like, Are you okay? I'm like, Yeah, he goes, No, you're not. You're not okay. I'm like, Yeah, I am, I'm okay. No, you're not, right? All the cops that were working that day that were from, you know, my agency came in to check on me. Um, the support was great. You know, our POA reached out uh at the time that day. Um, my stepdad was a captain. Um, and so you know, he we did like a thumbs up kind of thing to that was his way of checking on me because he you know had the big picture. Right. Um, he couldn't just make an emotional decision and check on his son. He had to be there for everyone. But we did a thumbs up. Um, that was our way of saying, yep, everything's good. Um, so at that moment, at that day, I thought I was fine, but I wasn't. Uh we can get to that. But then so then let's talk about that now. The chaplain said you're gonna be fine. You're you're not okay. And I said, Yeah, I'm fine. No, you're not. And it was not that day, or the day after, or a week after, right? It was a couple weeks after when the nightmares started. Uh nightmares of not being able to save enough people. Like I'd save one person and have to save another person and have to save another person, and it was like net branding. Or the nightmare of always being shot at, right? Like never getting hit in my nightmares, but always being shot at. So, you know, the the sleep loss over the nightmares was tough. Uh that lasted for, I would say, months. Um, you know, it was uh impactful for my relationship at the home at home at the time. Um You were married at the time? I wasn't. No, I had a girlfriend at the time. I would say any anyone going into a law enforcement profession um who is in a relationship, committed relationship, before they start, um their significant other, whether it's male, female, whatever their relationship is, they need to know that whoever their significant other that's going into law enforcement, they're going to change. Like the job is going to change them. Uh their personality is going to change a little bit. They're going to experience things that you know they have never experienced before, unless they were in the military, and there and there might be some similarities that's going to change them. And it's going to make the relationship dynamic at home difficult. Um, and you had said that uh in the academy to me when we were doing uh eBock and you sat in the car with me, and I was like stress out of my mind because I'm like, oh man, Seth is just sitting in here thinking, oh my god, it's gonna happen. But you had said, you know, like, hey, uh, if you're already in a relationship, it's gonna be a challenge because of you know the things you see, the things that happen, you know, and the relationship didn't work out. I'm married now, my wife's great. It's true, though those things will happen. Uh wellness now is so much better than it was then um I think at the time during the event, uh it wasn't as big of a topic, but I think my agency did a great job with checking on me, with checking on Jared, with checking on everyone that was there. You know, we did a critical stress debrief. You know, at the time, I think we were doing things the best we could for our officers who are directly involved and not directly involved. Um, but it's just gotten better, which is great, right? Because well, this is huge. Uh, but back to Jared. Um, my FTO came back from military leave, and uh he felt really, really bad that he wasn't there because he thought that like that should have been me, right? And we didn't want to take anything away from Jared's heroicism or anything, like fighting through being shot and having the mental toughness to to work through it and fight through it. Like I can't even I can't imagine what that's like because that hasn't happened to me, you know. But my FTO felt responsible because he wasn't there, and so that was a whole nother level of stress that that FTO felt. Um, and they were really good friends, so it was also more impactful. Um, I know he still has contact with Jared, and so sometimes I'll follow up with um that FTO, he's now a lieutenant, and just say, How's Jared doing? How's things going? But at the time, um those last two weeks of my fifth phase of training, we pretty much spent it at the hospital. We'd go and check on him every day, see how he's doing, check in with you know his wife, check in with the chaplain. There was there's overwhelming support. Uh seeing him was tough, right? Because he obviously was having surgeries and getting work done, and you know, but seeing him there alive and fighting through it uh was hugely impactful for me. Right. Because I don't think uh I'd select me in law enforcement if he didn't survive.

SPEAKER_02 41:27

So that that would definitely um change things because um it's um it it it just changes everything. It just changes everything. Um so much positive out of uh this particular incident because Jared survived and he made a good recovery. Um so I g I understand what you're saying. Um which kind of leads me to ask you more questions about your nightmares and how did you uh start to address that or what else did you experience?

SPEAKER_00 42:07

Um so like I said, the nightmares lasted for for several months. Um they eventually subsided, uh, I think just over time. I personally didn't seek out any uh mental health treatment or anything. Um, you know, it it took a while. Um the the chaplain that we have, Chuck Price, uh I met with him on a regular basis. Um he still told me, you know, you're not okay. Like you think you're okay, but you're not okay. Like you never know when something's gonna happen that's gonna re-trigger everything because you haven't formally processed it appropriately, meaning going to see a counselor or do some like EMDR to help, you know, reprocess your brain to make it sit right, kind of thing. Um and it took, I want to say in another like six years until um we had a shooting in our city, um, it was the Alongo shooting, um, where unfortunately this gentleman that we went on a call on, he decided to take a shooting stance and pull out an object that resembled a gun and you know, ended up in the shooting. Um, unfortunate circumstance for everybody, but you know, we're paid to make quick decisions fast. And because of that, um, there's some riots that started in our city. Um, and we had to, you know, have a quick response show up. And there was one evening where uh the riot was out of control. We were trying to effect an arrest or some arrests. Um, I was partnered up with a different officer. We were transporting people down to TJ because jail would accept, you know, any of the people that we were arresting for misdemeanors to help us out. Uh man, I keep hitting this thing. Uh You know, as we're heading down to CJ, I can hear some of the senior officers that were there saying that there's a gentleman in the crowd with a gun. I and they're like senior officers that I respect. Um, and I can hear in my mind, like the the terror in their voice, like they see this guy with the gun, they think they're gonna he's gonna use this gun on us. And he's in a crowd of people, like, what are we gonna do? Kind of thing. Like I thought there was gonna be another shooting, and so I started having a panic attack in the car. And that was when I realized, okay, uh, Chapman was right. Like, I don't know when it's gonna hit. It took six years. I've been to a bunch of other critical incidents, held the shield, kicked indoors, you know, gone to shootings, but you don't even know what's gonna trigger something. And that wasn't my trigger. And so I was in the car having a panic attack and telling my partner, like, we need to get back, we need to get back, we need to get back, like, I need to be there, we need to be there, we need to be there. Um, get them dropped off at CJ really quick, and then you know, we go back and we and we help out. But I had never experienced uh a feeling or or an emotion like that that triggered uh a previous event. Um, so because of that, then uh since then I have gone and used like our TCTI um or EAP to get some counseling um because it's okay to not be okay. And um counsel is there for a reason to help you work through things because as cops we're gonna see a lot of bad things, we're gonna be involved in a lot of bad things, we're gonna see the worst of the worst in people, and that will take a toll on you over time, and you have to have ways to process it and to empty out that that tank of stress, you know. If you're always rolling in on a full tank, it's just not safe for for yourself or and your partners.

SPEAKER_02 45:58

Absolutely, Tim. Um, what are some positive um ways to actually empty out that tank that you're talking about?

SPEAKER_00 46:09

Um, so some positive outlooks or outlets, you know, if fitness for me, fitness is one of them. Um I really like doing powerlifting. Um, so for me that that that's a positive outlet. Um, you know, it's me against myself. So, you know, it's also part of the mental grit, like grinding through a really hard workout, pushing, pushing through, you know, heavy PR or something. Um you know, some people like to go surfing, you know, some people like to go snowboarding, some people like to go mountain biking or road biking. Um, some people, you know, do like to talk to a counselor, and that's okay. Um, you know, I would say it needs to be a positive outlet outlet to empty out that tank. You know, part of it is having conversations, being okay to be vulnerable, being okay to to have a have a friend or a partner that you can just have a closed door conversation and let some stuff out, knowing that it's safe. Um, you know, I I feel like our agency's done a really good job with that. Uh, we have a you know a wellness team that is available 24-7. Um, you know, there's people on that team that I trust that if I were to tell them something, you know, how a certain way up how I feeling, or like I need to offload some stuff that it's not gonna go anywhere, that it's gonna stay in that room. Um, so having those positive outlet outlets are super important, not having negative ones, right? A negative outlet is gonna be alcohol. You can't you can't mask your feelings because the next day it's gonna be there again, right? Masking it's not gonna help because then eventually you're gonna build a tolerance and you're gonna need to drink more and more until unfortunately it could be fatal, right? And nobody wants that to happen. It's gonna affect your job, it's gonna affect your life, it's gonna affect your relationships. You gotta find positive outlets, even if they're small ones, you know, gotta have them. Super important.

SPEAKER_02 48:07

Uh, Tim, I couldn't agree with you more. Um definitely for the mental health uh aspect of it, we have to have positive outlets. Uh, if we don't, we can spiral out of control. Um, I also would add that, you know, we gotta have good relationships in our life and be able to communicate in those relationships. Um eventually we'll find people that we can actually talk about our incidents that without judgment. And that's that's important. It's huge, huge, huge. It's not always our spouse, but it there are others, you know, trained cops or psychologists that can definitely help.

SPEAKER_00 48:59

Um I definitely agree. Uh you know, some of the people I like talking to best are, you know, my my best friends who are cops. You know, I obviously talk to my wife as well. Right. Um, because she's there. That's a great support. But you gotta have more than one person you can talk to. Uh you know, and having your your partners there with you to be able to bounce stuff off of or just unload how you're feeling about a stressful situation, you know, it's huge. So you you gotta build good relationships um and have strong relationships with multiple people so you have your outlets that you can go to because you'll get a little piece of something from every other person.

SPEAKER_02 49:42

Right. Now, um, Tim, how do you what do you say to uh new men and women that are joining your department, new officers? Uh as a senior uh leader and experienced individual, um, what are some of the things you share with them to make them a better person, a better cop?

SPEAKER_00 50:05

Love that question. Uh I I was an FTO for several years. You know, uh I've held a specialty assignment in our traffic division. Uh now I'm fortunate enough to be a sergeant. I'm investigations. Um, you know, I've seen people struggle through training. I've seen people excel through training very well. Uh you know, I would say it's not going to be easy to start, right? It it's a grind, but you have to have your heart in it. If you have your heart in it and you're you're there making the best decisions that you know are right and that are ethical with good integrity and you're have good accountability for your actions, we will get you through what needs to be gotten through so you can be successful. Lying is gonna be get you fired right away. You can't lie. Um, you know, coming to Al Chown specifically, we are a very busy city. Um, you know, we expect a lot out of our cops, um, but it is rewarding because you know, you'll get in two years what you might get in other agencies in four or five, because we do expect so much more. Um, but we have a great community that uh backs our police department. We don't see negativity in the community. So, you know, if you want to come to a place that expects a lot of you, that you want to work hard, that you can chase after cooks, you can make stops, you can put people in jail, then you have a community that backs you, like Oklahoma's where you want to go.

SPEAKER_02 51:37

Having said that, I want to ask you, uh Tim, how do you build inclusion in Oklahoma? Because you know, when I've talked to you, uh when I've talked to people to people in your department, you know, um inclusion is very important. And uh I've heard that theme over and over again at Oklahoma. Um and so I feel like they're building a good team, a great team. And I just want to ask you, what are you doing as part of that inclusion piece?

SPEAKER_00 52:13

Um well, I would say one of the one of the benefits of a smaller agency is it's a it's a family environment, right? Everybody gets to know everybody. Um, and I I think a lot of that starts with leadership. Uh right now, I Jeremiah's a great chief. Uh, he's has a strong message of being transparent. And I think that's uh huge, especially with this newer generation, right? Uh people want to ask questions, they want to know things. And I think uh us as leaders need to be able to explain to the newer generation who like to ask questions like, here's the best answer I can give you. You know, gone are the days of just get in your car, go do your job, don't ask questions, right? The new generation wants to know because they're they're inquisitive, right? They're innovative, they have great ideas, and they're not gonna bring up these new ideas to you if you're closed off to listening to them, right? You gotta be vulnerable with your people. You gotta show them that you know you're you're a human also, and that it's not scary to come talk to the sergeant. You know, I was brand new, I didn't even want to go to the sergeant's office ever, right? Right. I'm like, I'm getting in trouble if I'm going in there, right? So, you know, I try to foster an environment where it's I have an open door, you know, come talk to me about whatever you want. Yes, there's gonna be times where I got to do sergeant business and you might not like the conversation that we have, right? But uh, you know, it's really important to have a strong delivery, that the message you deliver is received and understood, and that people aren't left questioning what's happening. And, you know, I I really think that transparency is just so important right now on so many different levels that that helps foster that um strong work environment, you know, that makes people want to show up to work, that are happy to work nationwide, right? We know that uh it's tough to find people to be good cops. Um, the hiring process is difficult. Um, you know, it's just not a a profession that everybody wants to do anymore because there's so many different rules and regulations, but they're there to help protect us also, right? With everything that someone thinks might be negative, there comes a positive from it. And I'll give an example of body cams, right? When we first got body cams, it was all negative. Like this is why are we doing this? All they want to do is watch us. Like from a line level perspective, yeah, I can see why people might think that, right? But from a leader perspective or a bigger picture perspective, like how many citizen complaints have been negated with those body cams being on, right? How many use of forces have we now watched with body cams that show everything's being done the right way? How many critical incidents have we prior planned for, talked about our tactics to de-escalate that we've shown up for that has been able to negate any type of complaint or issue? Um, so I to make it full circle, I just think transparency is is one of the keys and having strong leadership that uh is all on the same page and same same level and good communication is is huge.

SPEAKER_02 55:31

Um Tim, what would you what advice would you give to a graduating academy class?

SPEAKER_00 55:42

To an academy class, uh the advice advice I would give is you know you're going into whatever agency you're going to, training's gonna be tough. It's not easy. If it was easy, everyone would do it, right? Why did you join the profession? If you join the profession because you're just trying to get a paycheck, right? You're not training, you're not gonna get through training because it's mentally tough. If you made it through the academy with that mindset, then you're lucky, right? Because the academy is designed to weed those people out as well. Because this is a noble profession, right? We don't join up to be police officers to be millionaires. It's not gonna happen. If that's what you think, sorry to break it to you. You know, we we join to be police officers because we want to we have a higher calling, right? We want to protect the community. I live in Elkahon, so not only do I work in Elkahon, but I'm a community member, right? So I want to protect the community I live in, make the community I live in better. Um, you know, but if you have that right mindset, if you're going in for those noble reasons, you'll get through training. Don't quit, right? Tough through it, have that mental toughness. If you're struggling, please have an outlet, especially a positive one. Have people in your life that you trust that you can talk to, that you can open up to, that you can be vulnerable with. You know, gone are the days where when you're being vulnerable, you're weak, and no one wants to be around you, right? Wellness is such a big topic. It's so important that we are mentally prepared, mentally tough, that we offload any stress that we have so we can be the best partners for each other, we can be the best officers in the community, we can serve our community and be there a hundred percent all the time because we have to be.

SPEAKER_02 57:33

100%. Last thing, Tim, is there anything else that you would like to share with our listeners uh regarding your experience as a peace officer?

SPEAKER_00 57:47

Uh yeah, I would just say anyone who's getting into the career, um, especially if you're younger, right? It's not a sprint, it's a marathon. So whatever agency you go to, whatever assignments you do, you know, make the most of it. Um, there's gonna be good days. There's gonna be bad days. More good days than bad, you know, more rewarding uh things than than bad things that you're gonna see, right? The community is there to back you, right? Like um as long as you go into the job with with the right mindset, like you're gonna feel rewarded. It it's a great job, it's a great career. It's ever evolving, right? As we get new technology, things are changing, it's there to make things safer, right? Laws are gonna change, we can't control that, but we make the book, we make the best out of it. You know, we try to see the positive light out of it. You know, the pendulum's gonna swing from left to right, and sometimes it's gonna feel really heavy on our side, and sometimes it's not, right? But it's a grind. Just get through it, have your outlets, and you will feel rewarded at the end of your career.

SPEAKER_02 59:01

Well, Tim, you know what? I want to thank you for sharing your experiences, for your sacrifice, and for um, you know, promoting the idea that um mental health is so important and that we really need to be able to um communicate and get the professional help that we need when we experience some of the things that we see as such a high volume as peace officers.

SPEAKER_00 59:32

Well, appreciate you having me. I'm happy to share my story. Thanks for letting me share my story. Um, you know, it's just surreal to be here across from you, seeing you smile, right? Having a good conversation, not being stressed out. So uh I really appreciate you reaching out and I'm happy to provide this to you. Thank you, Tim.

SPEAKER_02 59:51

And just to put that in context, I was uh Tim's uh training officer in the academy, so our relationship back in uh 20 uh 2010 was just a little bit different.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:04

86 strong fit.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:07

Thank you, Tim. I appreciate you, man. Thank you. All right, brother. And thank you everybody for watching. Um, you know, if you're struggling, if you're having thoughts of suicide, you can call 988 and get the help that you need. Talk to somebody that is there waiting to help you. If you're just struggling with everyday stuff, but you're not necessarily feeling suicidal, you can call copline. And there are trained peace officers that will help you navigate through whatever it is that you're going through. Understand that you're not alone, that you're not the first to have challenges, that others have been there just like you, whatever it is that you're going through, and those people can help you. Um, we're gonna end this segment with a prayer from our brother in law enforcement, our brother in Christ, Greg Adminson, so that uh everybody gets home safe. Thank you for watching. God bless you. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:28

We come before you with gratitude for the brave men and women who have answered the sacred call to protect and serve. You said in Romans 13, verse 4, that the one in authority is God's servant for your good. Lord, we thank you for every officer who stands the line. We thank you for every officer who runs toward the sound of danger when others run away. We thank you, God, for every officer who brings order out of chaos and who seeks justice with compassion. Father, as warriors in a fallen world, we draw our strength from you. Your word declares in Psalm 144, verse 1, Blessed be the Lord, my rock, who trains my hands for war, my fingers for every battle. Train our hands, Lord, not only for the battles of the street, but for the battles within. Give us courage when fear whispers, give us patience when tempers rise, grant us wisdom when decisions must be made in an instant. Lord, we ask for your divine protection over every officer in the field, surround them with your angels as a shield, as you promised in Psalm 91, and let your peace guard their heart and mind in Christ Jesus. When they grow weary, remind them that those who hope in the Lord will renew their strength, they will soar on wings like eagles. Almighty God, you are our strength, you are our shield, you are our ever-present help in times of trouble. Father, when the day's work is done, bring them home safely. Restore their spirit, renew their joy, and remind them that they do not fight this battle alone. For you go before them, you go beside them, you are with them. In the mighty name of Jesus Christ, our commander and king. Amen.